Latest / FDD Morning Brief / Is Turkey the new Iran? | feat. Hay Eytan Cohen Yanarocak, guest hosted by Sinan Ciddi

Transcript

Is Turkey the new Iran? | feat. Hay Eytan Cohen Yanarocak, guest hosted by Sinan Ciddi · FDD Morning Brief

• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good morning, New Day, New Host.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Friday, April 3.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The multi-front war in the Middle East is now 909 days old.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: An Operation Epic Fury rages on.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Sinan City, Senior Fellow, and Director of FDD's Turkey Program, fitting in for your regular John Chanzer.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the FDD Morning Brief.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, before I introduce today's guest, here's a quick roundup of the latest news out of the region.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're worried that John's not gonna come back, don't worry, he'll be back next week.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our first headline is, Turkey is working with Iranian authorities to secure permission for 11 Turkish-owned ships to sail through the Strait of Hormuz.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it helps if you have friends in high places in Iran.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are currently 14 Turkish vessels in the Strait, three of which are engaged in ongoing operations and are not seeking passage.
• 1:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Iran allowed one Turkish ship to transit the Strait in mid-March, but there hasn't in any movement since.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Watch that space, because the Turks are all about trying to maintain the regime in Tehran.
• 1:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Second, is ready forces have eliminated the commander of Hezbollah's southern front.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess if you have a job in Hezbollah, it's like they say, it's for life.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's one of the most senior terrorists clocked off the battlefield since from new fighting erupted in Lebanon last month.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The idea of reports, it has approximately one hat killed 1,000 Hezbollah operatives in this campaign, including hundreds from Hezbollah's elite Red 1 Force, made they rest in a turn and hell.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Three, the International Agency, International Monetary Fund, the World Bank role-joining forces to coordinate response the ongoing war with Iran.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: The heads of all three institutions announced a coordination group to monitor regional developments assess the war's impact in three countries and mobilize stakeholders to help countries in need.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And last but not least, before we get to our guest, and in case you missed it this week, Fox News ran a story about a report I recently authored with my colleague William Duran on Turkish transformation under Regite Tyre Erdogan, into an operational base, yes you guessed it, for the one and only the Muslim Brotherhood.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Turkey, yes, is a nature ally and you might wonder how is this possible, but it this has not stopped Ankara or Erdogan from cultivating ties with Islamists of various stripes, including senior figures from the Brotherhood's Palestinian branch, otherwise known as Hamas.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can find a full memo titled Islamist Turkey, a base for Muslim Brotherhood Jihadism on FDD's website right now, but don't go away, watch us now, and you can read that one later.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: This now brings us to our main event, which I'm very excited about, because today we have a good colleague and friend, Dr. Atan Korn Yanarajek, an author and researcher at Tel Aviv University, and one of the world's foremost experts on Turkey.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of, a lot of, a lot of ground to cover today, and from add ones, ideological affinities, to anchor his regional posture on the implications for the war against the regime in Iran.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so without further ado, let's bring our guest of honor in.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good morning, hi, how are you?
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm okay, how are you?
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not too bad, this is my first time hosting, so let's make sure that we keep the crowd happy and we have a lot of interesting questions to discuss.
• 3:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see how far we get, we've got a bunch of questions and you and I could talk forever, but I'm sadly with time limited.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, here we go, let's see.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the Ramwar has drawn sharp lines in the sand between countries that want to weaken,
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: and or and or see the elimination of the Islamic Republic.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And those who want basically around to survive as is.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now we think that Turkey isn't a second camp.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that it wants to see the regime sort of hobo along.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think is driving on Christ's stake in the regime's continuity?
• 4:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, allow me to thank you for this very warm introduction, and thank you.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And regarding your question, well, the Turkish administration does not want to see the full of the Ayatullah regime in Iran.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: From their perspective,
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: They want predictables and weak Iran, which is continuously weakened by the United States, by Israel, from their perspective, it is much more preferable.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: and needless to say that such a regime change in Iran will definitely be against Turkey's core interests.
• 4:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me analyze this for you.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And since the Islamic Revolution in Iran, we can definitely say that Turkey has turned into
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: into a monopole regarding being a country that the West can rely upon in the Middle East.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in case of a regime change we will definitely see that Turkey will lose its monopole because in case that we will see a new pro western slash pro Israel regime in Tehran
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it means that Turkey's strategic importance will decrease in a dramatic manner.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the first issue.
• 5:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: The second issue is October 7.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are seeing that Turkey declared Israel as its number one national security threat.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: From a Turkish point of view, the Israeli Greek and Israeli Cypriot Alliance is designed to contain Turkey from south and west, and therefore such a regime change in Iran from their perspective will finalize this containment also from the east.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, they do not want to see such a regime change in Iran.
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we can also speak about the Kurds, in case of a regime change in Iran, we can definitely speak about the strengthening or improvement of the Kurdish political collective rights.
• 6:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Turkey definitely does not want to see such a case because it will trigger a domino effect also for the Kurds in Syria, Iraq and also for the Kurds of Turkey.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: We all know that nowadays there is an ongoing peace process in Turkey, so Turkey doesn't want to see any surprises here.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Another core, another core, Turkish concern is the refugee problem.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: In case of a regime change, most likely, the supporters of the current regime will escape from Iran.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: and they may come to Turkey.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore Turkey already suffered during this year in civil war.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: They do not want to see this film once again.
• 7:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, most likely Turkey will form buffer zones inside of the Iranian territory, which is a huge probability.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also I would like to say that this war is creating a huge problem for the Turkish economy.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Today one dollar is forty four Turkish liars, forty four point home, what if this is you?
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's going up.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so...
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a this for is a huge headache for Turkey and they do not want to see any kind of a change in the status quo because it will create a Technic change also for them but also for the whole Middle East
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so many questions there, I mean, it's in what will that essentially take to bring this regime down and one of the field that options that was considered initially, but may not be priority right now is activating, as you just talked about the sort of the Kurdish sort of insurgency within Iran or maybe with other minorities who stand to gain from this both the regime.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, talking is, you know, does have capabilities, it is interested in bringing, or let's just say, taking opportunities, having, you know, a prominent position in the Middle East host regime.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, whilst it wants to start a story, it likely wants to sort of
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, take the opportunity to see if you can gain out of this, and one of the things that I've noticed is the Trump administration is basically chastised a lot of NATO allies for not doing anything against the war in Iran, even though most would clearly benefit from the elimination of these democratic public, right?
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, but you know Turkey is a senior NATO ally, it's home to NATO's second largest military and Trump's combat is on it.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: It has a sizable navy, including mind-clering capabilities that could aid efforts to keep the straight-of-horamous open, and that's critical right now because the world needs the free flow of oil on tankers to access world markets.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, why is Washington not pressing an anchor to contribute more to war efforts, especially given all the ways in which it would benefit from it, you know, the way in which Turkey benefits from its relationship in the United States.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, before Turkey, let me also emphasize in highlight, Spain, Italy, I mean, and France.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're also not collaborating with the US.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Turkey is not only the example, but regarding your question.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Turkey is a neighbor of Iran, and we all know that after this work, this neighbor, I mean, this state of being a neighbor will continue and Turkey does not want to fight against the Iranian regime.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: The two countries, they already signed a treaty called the Treaty of Zuhab,
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: 1639 since then their borders are the same and you know when Donald Trump is looking at Turkey so he is using Turkey on different venues like Syria, Russia, Ukraine, the Gaza strip so United States is focusing its own immediate interests.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Donald Trump is very much aware that using Turkey in the Iranian, in the Iranian theater would be very problematic for him because the Turks will not going to collaborate with him.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it will change the whole balance of relationship between the American administration and Turkish administration.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, I think United States is refraining from asking Turkey, and you know, some demands that the Turkish side will not going to fulfill.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think Donald Trump is very pragmatic in this manner.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: He knows how to use Erdogan for his own purposes to maximize his own purposes.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, I don't think that he wants to waste this important carp for himself, for the Iranian case.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, we are not hearing any kind of criticizing.
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Donald Trump is not criticizing Erdoğan at all, and even he said that Turkey is doing a great job.
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: because they preserve their neutrality, etc, you know, we are not very, you know, we are, I mean, we did not hear such statements for other countries, but in case of Turkey, Donald Trump is mostly focused on Syria.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: because in the Syrian case Turkey has turned into a key country in rebuilding Syria.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to Ankara nowadays, we can see that American companies are...
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: paving their ways back to Syria and this rebuilding reconstruction of Syria, you know, you can make lots of lots of money in that matter and therefore we can also see the very important role of Tom Barrack, the US special envoy to Syria.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So United States is not mixing meat with
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right and it's kind of baffling to me because I've seen on Turkish TV as well as a mainstream press there or mainstream arduan press there, you know, lambasting and blaming the war exclusively as an Israeli operation and has nothing to do with also the policy preferences of the United States to undermine the Islamic Republic, right?
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: and took it's been proud of its sort of, you know, I'm a neutral country and I don't want you know, I'm trying to make the peace, but then the other side is probably sort of scanning opportunities to see how it could essentially benefit from the fall of the regime.
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But on the way that it deals with the United States is.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to any risk as an ally.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to assume any risk on the NATO country, but if ballistic missiles come way, shoot them down, also I don't want to do anything in the war effort.
• 13:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do anything to undermine a very dangerous regime.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: But as an ally, please give me everything that I want.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Give me F-35s, give me plane engines, give me, give me, give me, give me, it's just nonstop.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: take and basically what the Trump administration's drawing attention to is no reciprocity.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But okay, let's move it on slightly.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say, you know, we're not stranger to the fact that Turkey is always in the headlines as we can see and always the usually are not for the right reasons.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you and I are, I would say among the few Turk voices who play in the highlight the very real threats
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I provide my two cents in the aforementioned report about Turkey and the Muslim Brotherhood, but I'd like to hear from you because you've also looked into this and constantly observed this, what does it mean for Erdogan to be a conduit for the Muslim Brotherhood?
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And how should as Western partners, uh, essentially hold an accountable.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, when we are analyzing the Turkish foreign policy, I mean, especially in a personal point of view, I tend to analyze it and emphasize that this is a narrow, automanist and pun Islamist way of seeing the Middle East.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, this approach of Erdoğan to Muslim brotherhood branches, as you also mentioned in your very comprehensive and very well written.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: You must probably read it.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: You highlight it.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I read it, you know, on matter good records, you don't.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: here it is.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: One person.
• 15:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll really recommend for all the people who are interested in.
• 15:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, we are all students of each other and I learned a lot from you, especially I looked at the sources.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are very credible.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a very well written piece.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, I mean, I also learned from this very detailed report that Turkey is not only working together with the Egyptian, or with the Palestinian.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Muslim brotherhood branches, but also some other, also some other branches are also involved and Turkey is using these branches as an instrument, like by using these groups Turkey is seeking to expand its influence in the Middle East.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we also have a ideological dimension here and from then is really point to few.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, I can't say that this has started with the Gilat Shalid prison prisoners deal.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: and many Hamas terrorists were freed to Turkey and Israel with its own hands created a leadership inside Turkey.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also during this last war in the Gaza Strip, under the pretext of facilitating a prisoner exchange once again, we saw that many Hamas terrorists were once again
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in the Israeli press, unfortunately, we are seeing that the Israeli shingbat is revealing different cells that were operated from the Turkish cell of Hamas.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the command center is in Turkey and they are operating in the Gaza Strip or in the Judea and Samaria.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So from an Israeli point of view, this is, of course, raising lots of concerns and this is very unacceptable because at the end of the day Hamas is considered as a terrorist organization.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: But Mr. Erdogan is labeling this entity as a political party slash and as a resistance movement.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean only country in NATO and obviously we are, we all, we were all witnessed that October the 7th atrocities, I mean they raped, they killed and you know it's
• 18:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm believable.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And why don't I didn't condemn once?
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not once.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's far a ministry issue to statement a few days after the October 7 massacres.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Erdogan himself has actually never sort of condemned the attacks because he calls it a resistance movement.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he barely went three weeks before calling the Iranians Supreme Leader at the time saying, we to establish a united front as a Muslim world to contain an undermine Israel.
• 18:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember reporting on that on that as no.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We friends like this, we need enemies.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, you know, really, unfortunately, because at the end of the day, Israel and Turkey have never declared any hostilities against each other, and this is the way it should be.
• 18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still want to believe in this fragile, fragile relationship between Israel and Turkey, the person who was born and raised in Turkey.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: in a personal manner.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really love to again, I don't want to see it.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It would be turned into a hostile state against the state of Israel.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this fragile relationship, even if it's fragile, it should be safeguarded.
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what I'm seeing from the Turkish press and from the Turkish social discourse and political discourse.
• 19:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, we are all witnessing the demonization of the state of Israel on daily basis.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anti-Semitism has turned into something very understandable and very, you know, like a very known phenomenon that it is acceptable in the eyes of the public people, even, are not aware that they are making anti-Semitic statements, let alone anti-Zionists.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's in the mainstream education curriculum, it's on TV soaps, and it encapsulates all minorities, including the Jewish minority in Turkey.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Christians, we've got non-lushings in Turkey that's being demonized, it's in the... and it's the most...
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: The most important problem I think are the school textbooks.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: The square textbooks are my PhD dissertation, so I know them very well, and also I myself studied with them when I was a little kid, and I can definitely say that after the failed cool attempt, the G-Had, you know, the this principle of G-Had was introduced for the first time to this
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when you're looking at the content regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict or the September 11th, et cetera, they are very anti-Western.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, and obviously,
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: today's children will turn into decision-makers tomorrow.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so from an assumption that all of this knowledge that was you know penned in the school textbooks would be transmitted to future leaders of Turkey.
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it is very likely that in maybe in 20 or in 30 years Turkish
• 21:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: anti-Israel, or maybe even more anti-Western.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think I also say it's already here.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's the generation gap.
• 21:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Erdogan has been in power for 23 years.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in addition to the textbooks, I mean, you've also probably trapped that the school system and Turkey, where they have introduced over millions of children now are forced to attend these Muslim or Islamist prayer leaders schools.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: really mean not look me tell you something very you know fascinating even the grand child of the chief rabbi of Istanbul's he was placed first at that Imam Hatib school and only after finding out that he was Jewish then he was you know he was moved to another school you can google it yeah
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's online.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know Dr. Nation.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Forcing Dr. Nation.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I've seen those curriculums on what they call world-religing classes and it ends up being a die-tribe against, you know, non-sunny world.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, like you, I mean, I was born in Turkey, I have Turkish parents.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's sad that, you know, people, you know, you and I think are interested in saying look to the Turkish people.
• 22:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: you have a terrible government that is ruining your way of life to establish values and undermining your very existence as a secular sort of beacon of a western ally.
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And instead of holding this government accountable to a fuller extent, what he chose to do is along with the mainstream press, he's demonized people who call out Erdogan.
• 22:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And their efforts should really be determined not on the messages who called this sort of horrific regime out in Turkey, the threat that it represents to its allies, its neighbors, the region, but essentially target that anger and disappointment towards the government itself and I'm not really seeing that.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is also a good segue into my last big question for you.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we could run into a little bit of heart trouble because everybody's been asking about this for the last few weeks.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've seen it in press and various articles.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is Turkey the new Iran in that case given where it's been sort of dragged into the direction which is being dragged into what does it mean to be the next Iran and that we're seeing in that popular narratives?
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, again, I will start from a personal angle.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really sincerely would like to believe that Turkey is not the new Iran, okay?
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a positive agenda, but it doesn't mean that I'm a naive person, but
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I unfortunately see many, you know, very negative indicators that are making me very, very much concern.
• 23:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also not alone.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also, these really presses very much aware of this current situation.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks to AI, any kind of anti-Israel coverage can be translated within seconds into Hebrew
• 24:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: environment in Turkey, and also the Israeli decision makers in their statements, they are making it very clear and they're also giving some populistic statements that Turkey is the new Iran look.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It would be very simplistic to put Turkey of
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: But is there any potentials?
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, yes, there is a potential.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we cannot really doubt.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is my core concern that this current the relationship of being an opponent
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: can be turned into active hostilities.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I really do not want to see it.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And look, but we have many good reasons to be concerned.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Turkey is launching a very
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: sophisticated delegitimization campaign against the state of Israel, when you're looking at Erdogan statements on daily basis, he's giving so many different nicknames for the Israeli Prime Minister and also for the state of Israel, delegitimizing the state, demonizing the state, in the eyes of the public, so that's why also anti-Semitism or banalization
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And besides that we see that Turkish decision makers already launched a judicial campaign against Israel together with South Africa.
• 25:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: They imposed sanctions.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Trade sanctions and naval sanctions against the state of Israel.
• 26:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are seeing verbal violence.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are verbal violence, what kind of verbal violence, for instance, only a week or two a go.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the former Justice Minister of Turkey, Stulema, so he made, you know, oh yeah, incredible.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there are people that Turkey may got forbidden.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be ready to sacrifice 300 to 400,000 soldiers, but then Israel would be erased from the map, you know, end quote.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So these kind of statements.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: because of the fact that they were sad in Turkish, it doesn't mean that they were not hurting in Israel.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, people are very much aware of what is going on here.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I also would like to make another important input here.
• 26:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: In our first question, we also spoke about the Israeli Greek and Cypriot Alliance and I already said that Turkey is seeing this as a containment policy, as like an an encirclement policy.
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, the same is also applicable.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: For Turkey, Turkey is launching this alliance together with Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Jordan.
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are labeling it as the Friends of Syria, as if this entity was formed against ISIS.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But from an Israeli point of view, we cannot say that now it's only for ISIS.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Israeli decision makers also have some question marks whether this particular formation would be used against Israeli in the future or not.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And another important, of course, alliance formation may occur in the future together with Pakistan.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Saudi Arabia, right and with Egypt, and needless to say you should understand why Pakistan is raising eyeballs here in Israel because of its nuclear capabilities and given how come
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: in CNN took interview whether Turkey will acquire a nuclear weapon instead of saying that no way assigned the mum proliferation treaty in 1969 and no he didn't see such a sentence instead he smiled at the camps and remained silent.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that was precious.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think we're having things, all these things, unfortunately, are not seen as good points here in Israel.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I cannot lie to you only because I have a positive agenda, and I'm highlighting.
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: that personally I have a positive agenda, I would like to function as a bridge between Israel and Turkey to strengthen the relationship and to stop this steady deterioration between the two countries.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is really painful to see such a thing because we grew up during the 1990s with this honeymoon between Israel and Turkey.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really hope that maybe we are not going to acquire this honeymoon, you know, anytime soon but at least we can prevent this, you know, very dirty divorce.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was just going to say, um, we're running up against time, unfortunately, and I think, you know, this is a tough topic.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have the ideological formations.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have the rhetoric.
• 29:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have the intentions.
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then they're right now missing the equivalence of things like a goods force, um, and militarization on the signs of Iran with with proxy forces.
• 29:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, really very traceable record, which does merit not whitewashing and playing down the varied threats that Ankara continues to present as just mere sort of, you know, whims of an annoying or difficult ally as somehow, and it's like to put out there.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're missing the warning signs, but we're gonna have to put us, you know,
• 30:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: temporary period here at high and basically just say, look, we could talk about Srever, I want to thank you for coming on this show and thank you very much for having me once again.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not taking it for granted and once again congratulations for your comprehensive report.
• 30:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think many people will learn from it.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: OK, and that brings us to the end of another episode and morning brief for this week.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: If today's conversation sparked your curiosity, well, then there's more where that came from on FDD.org, including latest edition of the Trump administration foreign policy tracker where my colleagues and I grade the administration's approach to foreign policy across areas.
• 31:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can also follow us on social media for sharp, substantive content, and don't worry, you won't find any get ready-made videos or cap memes, that's probably for John Shanzer.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I promise I'll be worth your while, it'll all be worth your while.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you'd like to help us continue doing this work, you can always point your care cursor to fd.org-invest for a tax-adup global contribution, and we'll tax these in upon us, the timing couldn't be better.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It has been a privilege hosting you today.
• 31:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your regular hosts will be back on Monday.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the meantime, have a great weekend.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am Sinanjidi, signing off for our 3D.