Latest / Skin Anarchy / E.376: Finding Solutions Rather Than False Hope For Hair Loss Ft. ME Cosmetics

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E.376: Finding Solutions Rather Than False Hope For Hair Loss Ft. ME Cosmetics · Skin Anarchy

0:01
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0:52
SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to Speaker Anarchy.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: This is Ecta, as always, and I have a lovely guest with me today.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: She is the founder of Me Cosmetics, and I'm really excited about this line because it's actually a hair care line, and it's absolutely brilliant what uh they've created.
1:08
SPEAKER_02: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Camille Barreto.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the show, Camille.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored to be hosting you.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Ecta.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: It is truly a pleasure to be here to help share the message to all the women out there who are suffering from hair loss.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: So it's really an honor to be here.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: I love, I love that we even started with that because I literally was talking to somebody just the other day, Camille, and we're talking about how everyone needs a higher purpose.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: And it's like more important than ever now in beauty to like make sure that your products have a real purpose behind them.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: And I can't think of a better example.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: I absolutely love your brand.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: But before we dive in, I want you to tell us about yourself, you know, and tell us how you got into this specific category of beauty and dermatology also, you know, it spans so many realms.
1:52
SPEAKER_02: So uh if you could get us started.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Sure thing.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's um that's a great question to lead off with is how in the world did we end up here?
1:59
SPEAKER_01: And to by way of kind of context, I'm 47 years old and I was diagnosed with the equivalent for women of male pattern hair loss, which is called androgenetic alopecia or female pattern hair loss in my early 20s.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: So it's been a long journey.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, this has been part of my life for many years.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Now, in parallel with that, obviously I've had my professional career working from tech to finance, et cetera.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: But one thing I noticed is that no matter how I felt about things in my life, I was always extremely anxious about my hair, my hair loss.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, there were very limited treatments back in the day.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I ended up using alternative hair or prosthetic hair in the form of toppers back in the day.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, but over the years, there have been, you know, tremendous advancements.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'd love to see more, but there have been quite a few in the last few decades.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I've been able to uh focus on just wearing my own biohair.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Um but in parallel, I had always really felt anxious about my hair, whether I walk into a meeting or you know, talk to friends, or if you're at a restaurant and you've got spotlights above you, or you're at a pool party and your hair gets wet, or you're in a salon.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: And I really understood the whole process of the amount of distress emotionally that hair loss can cause, in addition to the medical concerns, obviously, for some folks, depending on what their hair loss stems from.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, this is something that's just been really a true passion of mine because I've lived it.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't realize how many women actually experience hair loss until probably the last decade or so when I started seeing data out of the Cleveland Clinic and other folks who I think we can all agree are are very reliable sources of information, that over 50% of women experience hair loss at some point.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: And so when I realized that, I said, well, hold on a second.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, those of us who have had hair loss for many years, we've been trying to find very creative ways, you know, MacGyver style for anybody who's out there on dating myself.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, jerry-rigging products, creating hacks.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you look up hacks on TikTok for concealing hair loss, you'd be shocked at the number of, you know, videos that are out there.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it turns out that 50% of women experience these types of concerns at some point.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's temporary, sometimes permanent conditions.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, but there really aren't very effective or elegant or compelling cosmetic solutions for women.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: The few that have been developed over the last couple of decades, hair fibers, et cetera, have primarily been directed toward men and their types of hair loss patterns and hair growth.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and we've all just gotten really creative.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: We've been, you know, using root cover sprays and eyeshadows.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: But when's the last time somebody used an eyeshadow that was the color of your skin as a foundation for your face?
4:41
SPEAKER_01: We don't do that because that's not what they're intended for.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And so they generally fall woefully short if you try to apply them in another setting.
4:48
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there just really weren't great solutions.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: And so I said, you know, I would always think about what I wish there were, but coming from the finance world, so I, you know, most of my career was spent in banking.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, it really hadn't dawned on me to think about launching a company, especially, especially not in the beauty space.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And so when um when I started to talk to my husband about, you know, I wish it were like this and I wish it were like that, he said, Well, Camille, why don't you do that?
5:15
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, honey, I'm I don't come from an entrepreneurial family.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: What do I know about cosmetics?
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not from this space.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: And he looks at me and he goats me a little bit and he's like, Well, that's mighty selfish of you because if you have a way that you can actually you think that you can make this so much easier and so much better and really help boost women's confidence in the solution because you've been living it for so long.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Why don't you do it?
5:38
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm scared.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: So he, of course, he tangles the carrot in front of me, knowing, you know, if you put the bait, then I'll probably bite.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: And boy am I really, really grateful that he did.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's really how this whole journey launched, uh, out of personal necessity, but also realizing that there was a huge market opportunity when we consider the millions and millions of women who suffer um from hair loss on a day-to-day basis.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: No, I mean, I think that it's absolutely a brilliant idea.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: I've, you know, had plenty of time to really um understand the line.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: And for everyone listening, it's it's a wonderful way to cover up something that you might be self-conscious about.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: And I know for women, it's very difficult to lose your hair.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know that um even in my, you know, growing up in my community, I know I had a lot of um, you can say family friends or aunts, you know, just my parents' friends, and they were always it was an issue, you know, that came up.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: And certain um races and certain communities are more predisposed, unfortunately, to things like alopecia hair loss in general.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: But I think for any woman, it's it's very hard because we're all so linked to our hair, no matter how short it is, no matter how long it is.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: We all love our hair.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think most women can agree to that, even men, you know.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: I think as human beings, we we carry that as a sense of like pride in us, you know.
7:00
SPEAKER_02: It's like the way we do our hair can make or break our day, the way it looks can make or break our day.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: It could make help our morning be a wonderful or you know, bad hair day.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's it's a huge topic, you know.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: And I and I I find it to be so interesting that you you found the solution to it because I've read a lot of papers about, you know, especially now.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've noticed, Camille, but there's a lot of hair serums coming out lately.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And I'm very irritated.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: I just want to say for the record, I'm very irritated at a lot of these companies.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: There's a few really great ones, don't get me wrong, but there's a lot of really bad ones.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'm not all about that supplement life either, you know.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: So it's like, I think that we need to come up with real therapeutic ways to like combat this.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: And I think what you've done is a really great first step for people.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, I the less toxins we can put in our body, like I don't know how many times me or any other medical professional has stressed this.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: The less you put on yourself, the less goes into your bloodstream and the healthier you're going to be over time.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: So, like, you know, and especially with something like alopecia, what they're now discovering, you know, unfortunately, um, they're now starting to realize that there's this autoimmune, you know, situation that happens.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of that is triggered by things that we're inhaling or ingesting on a nanoparticle level.
8:24
SPEAKER_02: So that really makes me, you know what I mean?
8:26
SPEAKER_02: It irritates me when I see like another brand launched a supplement for hair health.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, who are you?
8:32
SPEAKER_02: You used to make makeup yesterday.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
8:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: So I think that your your product is really, really um very much up my alley because I think that, you know, if you can topically cover something and make it more um appealing to you as you look in the mirror, that's a great place to start.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: And then go get help from a medical professional.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: Go to a dermatologist, go to a, you know, like an actual expert that can figure out why you're losing your hair, do your blood work, that kind of thing.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: So exactly.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Getting getting to the root point of the of the of the cause, rather, of the issue causing the hair loss is the first step that is so important.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: But as I'm sure I believe you've mentioned it a few times on your podcast with other guests, the hair growth cycle is extremely long.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: And so while we're all waiting for, you know, hoping that certain treatments or protocols will work for us, in the meantime, what do we do?
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: And that's really that huge gaping hole that I tried to attack.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: I said, you know what, we need to find a great cosmetic solution that works for women and either carries them through temporary experiences like postpartum hair loss, where their hair is going to grow back anyway, very likely.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: Or if they're searching for medical protocols that are therapeutic, um, and because they require that type of intervention to correct their hair loss.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, in that case, that doesn't happen in three weeks.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: It takes six months, 12 months, 24, 36 every time you've got to try new medications.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, what do you do, right?
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Other than sit slumped down in your bathroom on the shower or floor as you've seen another glop of hair fall out and you just don't know what to do anymore.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's I think that's really where I came at it from because I'm not medically trained.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know a lot about hair loss just because of the shared nature of my personal journey.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's been so long, and I've asked a lot of medical professionals because I relien very heavily on them and scientists as opposed to other folks who speak loudly about um therapeutics.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, it's it's to me that was just the really key thing we needed to attack.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: And we just had this big gaping hole in the market.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it was really depressing when you walked into any name your any big box retailer and you would see shelves and shelves and rows and rows of pick your favorite, you know, mascara, eyeshadow, foundation, body of this, do that, whatever.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: And there's not even one little shelf for hair loss concealers.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: How can this be?
10:59
SPEAKER_01: This doesn't make any sense to me.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: So that's really that's really where we're coming at it from.
11:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, talk about you know, filling the white space, you know.
11:07
SPEAKER_02: I mean, no pun intended, but like honestly, you I never thought of that.
11:13
SPEAKER_02: I have a very uh dark and sick humor sometimes.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry for everyone.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, honestly, it's not, I mean, it's just that I I really just I think that when you approach a problem, I think you have to start from a place where everybody can use your product.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: And I think Camille, you've done that so beautifully, and that's what I really love about Me Cosmetics is that it's not trying to come up with this pseudo-intellectual drug category, you know what I mean, that the FDA doesn't even know about.
11:41
SPEAKER_02: And it's you know, it's just you're not doing BS stuff, you know, and putting pushing BS products out there.
11:47
SPEAKER_02: You're saying, listen, while we figure this out, which by the way, as scientists and doctors and even the dermatologists that we all know and love, they don't know jack shit yet about hair health.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm telling you honestly, it's very little research out there, there's very little treatment options, there's very little therapeutic options and preventative options, you know, and hair health, something you know, I just want to put in there, put into the conversation, Camille, is that you know, we had brought up autoimmunity, it affects everyone with an autoimmune disorder.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: So you don't have to have alopecia.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: If you're, for example, I have Hashimoto's disease, and that's basically hypothyroidism on like steroids.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: And so a big thing of hypothyroidism or Hashimoto's is hair loss.
12:31
SPEAKER_02: Same with the other way around, hyperthyroidism or Graves disease, you're gonna see hair loss.
12:35
SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot, and same with lupus, same with so many different conditions that are actually predominantly affecting women.
12:44
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a known scientific medical fact that autoimmune diseases are more likely to occur in women than men.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: And and the thing is, like it's a huge problem.
12:52
SPEAKER_02: And so while science is trying to figure it out, we can't have, I mean, you know, when I think about the beauty industry, I think of you know solutions that work for the average person, right?
13:02
SPEAKER_02: So that's what we need to find, and that's exactly what you've created here.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it makes me feel better that someone can buy your product, use it just to feel better about themselves in that day, you know what I mean, and promote that overall well-being, which really does stem from your mindset, from your the way you feel, you know, that is so important.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's tied to everything.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: So I really, really love it.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: I think that your approach is the most logical next step.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: And that's really like for me, it's how I try to live my life is like I always ask myself, you know, what's the best logical next step in this situation?
13:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think if more people did that, I think this industry would always be coming up with solutions rather than redundancies.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
13:45
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that's a fair point, especially when you're dealing with this community, not just exclusively this community, but let's say, let's take the female hair loss community.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: We're talking about people who have no knowledge, generally speaking, about discerning between this serum, that supplement, et cetera, et cetera.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: And it's really confusing when you see the language out there, people referring to consumer perception studies as clinicals and hear clinical results, and you're like, that's not a clinical trial.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Big difference.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, not just the consumer perception studies aren't fantastic.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: We use them because it's cosmetic products.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: So for us, that's the most relevant.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, so it's really it's hard for the consumer.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: And what I wanted to do was say, okay, I'm not gonna try to convince you that this is going to do something it can't do.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: We don't claim to regrow hair, we purely address the cosmetic issue, which I think is a really important factor because a lot of times, you know, folks don't they don't know how to treat what they're what they're experiencing.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, first port of call should always be co-see, you know, board-certified dermatologist, one who specializes in hair loss, or a tricologist if one, if a dermatologist isn't accessible to you, or if that's the most logical, depending on which region of the world you're in, because in some places that's actually the easiest way to go.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so, you know, for these women, they're just looking for thought stuff that works because they are tired and they are broken.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: They're just emotionally, it is so draining for us when you just really put your hope and faith into something and then you realize, oh no, that's not gonna work.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: And so for us, it was really important to make something that we knew whatever we said, our claims were substantiated, tested, and substantiated by independent third-party testing.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, with double blind studies.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so for us, that was just really important.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: We wanted just to make something where I said, whatever we tell you it can do, it can do.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: And you can actually feel confident going home.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of women, when they are looking for these types of solutions, especially more therapeutic ones, you know, that there's a lot of heartbreak in that down that path.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Because as you mentioned, there's a lot of an unregulated industry.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: So it's tricky.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: It's hard for the average person, it's hard for anybody really, but it's really hard for the average person to discern between what is valid in terms of therapeutics and what isn't.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: And so that for me was just really important to get that message loud and clear.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, whatever we do, we stand by what we do, and you know, everything's been tested.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Our claims have all been substantiated because this community needs that.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: They deserve that.
16:15
SPEAKER_01: It's the least we can do.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I completely agree and very, very well said.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: I I can I couldn't agree more.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that, you know, truly hats off to you for for saying that and for living by it because I really believe that the beauty industry has grown.
16:32
SPEAKER_02: Um, I want to, I want to say that, you know, in the most positive way that we we're seeing a lot of growth.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, we're finally seeing founders who have uh an emotional, not emotional, an ethical compass.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
16:44
SPEAKER_02: There's um there's more people out there that are now doing things for the right reasons rather than to make a quick buck, which you know, there's a lot of celebrities out there that are doing that.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's just a sideline, but like, you know, yeah but so real founders that in.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: But like, you know, the the real founders, you know, like uh men and women such as yourself, Camille, you know, you you have a you have a purpose that drives you and you have a vision and you're you're creating it.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that is the most um, you know, it's it's it's in the spirit of true innovation, but that's what innovation is, is you know, you see a problem and you come up with some sort of a solution.
17:26
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I would love down the line, Camille, you know, it's something to definitely consider that once we do have a better handle on, you know, what does cause regeneration of hair, I would love to see you infuse those ingredients into your you know, into the cosmetic aspect of your product.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, that's a beautiful way to, I think, design a brand is to first fix the problem, okay?
17:47
SPEAKER_02: Then supplement it, you know, add on extra stuff, add on the things that are needed.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that's really like a thing that a lot of entrepreneurs they struggle with because they want to jump the gun, they want to jump 10 steps ahead and be like, no, we're gonna be the next, you know, blah, blah, blah.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, no, you gotta fix the problem first.
18:06
SPEAKER_02: That's not that's like, you know, whole thing, and that's what's gonna make your brand sell.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, I was just talking to somebody that was on more on the business side of things and an executive um that works with branding, and you know, they were talking about how um also from like the venture capital side of things, and we were discussing how brands get to that point where they can invest or or get investors and and really apply for venture capital.
18:29
SPEAKER_02: And they were telling me that their cutoff mark is like a million dollars in in sales.
18:33
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, how the heck do you get there as a brand?
18:36
SPEAKER_02: And you know, one of the things that that came up was well, you gotta be you gotta be real, you gotta really fill space, you gotta have a product that's not redundant that somebody hasn't done before.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And to do that, you have to be able to be open-minded and you have to really examine the space you're working with.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, like Camille and I were just talking, and you know, Camille, you were describing perfectly was this idea of, you know, um, it's debilitating for women, it's very difficult.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: It's an emotional experience that we go through when it comes to our hair.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: And to somehow help with that emotional response, that's the product.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
19:12
SPEAKER_02: That's the product.
19:13
SPEAKER_02: It's not necessarily the formulation or whatever.
19:16
SPEAKER_02: No, the product is you're fixing someone's mood, you're helping them, and that is always going to sell.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm just like, I'm a huge fan, you know, I really am of me cosmetics, Camille.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: You're you're doing a wonderful job.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: We try.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, you're doing, you're doing.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: And um, I just want to, you know, actually get some information from you.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: So when you were uh, you know, crafting the products, I know that they fall into the cosmetic category.
19:41
SPEAKER_02: So how was that?
19:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, when you're when you're making foundation for hair and the scalp uh versus the face, like what are some of the things that you noticed were, you know, things that you had to really work around, or maybe you know, go back to the lab and be like, no, recreate this.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the biggest challenge, because really what you're trying to do is create an illusion, right?
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Just like you are with makeup, it's just creating illusions, visual illusions to trick the eye of the beholder, if you will.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the issue is foundations as we know them are used to being applied on skin, but they're not used to having to get through a whole bunch of hair because most women still have hair, even if they have um um, say, female pattern hair loss, it will present generally as diffuse thinning as opposed to complete baldness.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, autoimmune disorders tend to have much pot patchier, you know, complete baldness areas.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: But for the most part, most women um have to get the product through the hair.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: So the application delivery system had to be very different than what was out there and um an application technique.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: So that was one first step was okay, you know, how do we get this stuff onto our head?
20:44
SPEAKER_01: And um, and then when we wanted to design, so that what we did was we took, I took, you know, I wanted a dual bristle brush, and a lot of people don't know that what that is.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: It's basically you've got denser small bristles inside the brush that really pick up the product and then deposit it onto your scalp.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: And then you have the second layer of brush of uh bristles that are softer that really help do the make the blending and buffing for your really natural look because you also don't want these little blotchy spots all over your head.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Nobody needs to look like that.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, for us, we just custom designed the brush.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: So that was one big issue that we had that we attacked because out there, what there were were cans that you sprayed on your head or fibers, you know, or like um root covers that were um like that you would actually spray everywhere.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: So you can't really control where that goes.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: You would have hair fibers where you have to either shake them onto your head or use these old school type, you know, like the old school perfume bottles had that squishy ball to pump it.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: So they have these little pumps that are actually pretty effective in delivering the hair fibers to a specific area, or you have root covers that are generally really small, tiny pans with really small flat brushes.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: And those clearly, when you're trying to cover a large area, all of those three, you know, have fall short on some on some level, whether it's Spray, you can't control it, you can't buff it, you can't blend it, whether it's the root covers that are too small, whether it's the the hair fibers that are just kind of cumbersome to get through the hair and tend to look a little splotchy sometimes.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so you know, for us that delivery was a huge piece of it.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: The second was the, and I'm just talking the ergonomics for now.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: We'll get to the formula in a sec.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: The second was the size of the compact.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: We said, okay, enough with these tiny little eyeshadows that we've all been struggling with for decades.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: I would literally buy every one of the same eyeshadow.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: I would have about a hundred at a time because I'd go through one a week, right?
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Easily.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I knew we wanted a nice big fat pan that was round so we could get all that product out.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that it was just a lot easier to get that big brush onto the pan, which is why a face foundation, you know, complexion products for the face or body are generally very large formats.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: So that was a second key consideration, and that's why it was designed that way.
22:53
SPEAKER_01: And then the third and the most important as well is the formulation, right?
22:57
SPEAKER_01: And so the formulation, what I wanted to do was a couple things.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: One, I wanted to make it as simple as possible because my understanding, and if I ever say anything that's scientifically incorrect, please by all means correct me.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: I am not a trained professional.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: But you know, my understanding is the least amount of things we could be putting on the scalp or on the skin, the least chances of irritation, right?
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, especially if people are using therapeutics on their scalp, the um the delivery mechanism is alcohol-based or whatnot and can actually cause a lot of flaking and drying in the beginning, just like a retinoid would the first couple of times sometimes that you wear it, that you use it on your skin.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: And so we wanted to do things that are as um, you know, as few ingredients other than hair-loving and skin-loving ingredients, um, so as few of the cosmetic pieces as possible.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: So we don't have a very long inky list or ingredient list that you'll see, because we just wanted to minimize that.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the second, and this is the other key thing, is that we wanted to make sure that it was infused with hair and skin-loving ingredients.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: So not in the claims of regrowing hair, but just of nourishing the hair as much as possible, because a healthy scalp is the happy scalp.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: And while the hair doesn't grow from the scalp per se, it grows from the hair follicle underneath, um, or with part of it, whatever it is, um, you know, we still want that skin and hair to feel, you know, like it's loved and being, you know, being taken care of.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: So we put things like hyaluronic acid and jojova oil and vitamin E and a whole host of other um wonderful ingredients in there.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: So that was an another key component.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think Rudy Giuliani brings this one to surface very quickly is that this stuff had to be waterproof, not like it might fall off.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: No, it had to be this is not going anywhere.
24:36
SPEAKER_01: Because imagine how mortifying it would be if you're sitting there at your wedding or at a pool party or some corporate event and you get rained on.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: And next thing you know, you've got like colors, you know, running down your face because these are very deeply pigmented products, right?
24:52
SPEAKER_01: Because we want to deposit a lot of pigment without having to put a ton of product on the hair, um, on the on the hair and skin.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, for us, we needed to make sure it was also very waterproof.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, those were the key considerations.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a chemist, so I worked with leading cosmetic chemists to formulate.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: This isn't something that I did myself.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh, and then you know, we did a lot of back and forth, you know, it's there's too much fallout, there's not enough payoff, color payoff, it's not waterproof enough, or et cetera, et cetera.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, and we just wanted to make sure we hit all of those pieces.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: And that and the ancillary side in terms of you know, sustainability concerns.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Look, we're not going to be claiming that we're sustainable because we're making things, but we try our best, right?
25:38
SPEAKER_01: So our compacts are 85% PCR, which is recycled plastic content.
25:42
SPEAKER_01: All of our shipping boxes come from eco enclosed, so they don't look fancy, but you know what?
25:46
SPEAKER_01: That's all recycled cardboard, easy to disemb to disassemble and recycle, right?
25:51
SPEAKER_01: So it's just regular craft board, et cetera.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: So we've also tried to do all of those pieces, but those are more ancillary as opposed to just the formulation and the actual products themselves in terms of their design.
26:01
unknown: Yeah.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, um, this is something that kind of irks me.
26:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna lie, is in the beauty industry, we are so obsessed with buzzwords, right?
26:10
SPEAKER_02: Like sustainability has become a buzzword.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry to say it, but it's true.
26:13
SPEAKER_02: For everyone listening, you know, sustainability has become this thing that people think, you know, oh, if it's not like this or if it's it doesn't look like this, it's not sustainable.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's a lot of definitions to sustainability.
26:25
SPEAKER_02: You know, I actually wrote an article about this, Camille.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: I was talking about like nanoplastics, you know, if you really want to dive into the sustainability argument for a lot of brands that sell products based solely off that, you know, I know some of the brands like that that are like, well, we're 100% sustainable.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, you're not.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: Because when you go into like nanoplastics, you go into, you know, um, the real nitty-gritty toxicology of it, nothing in the beauty industry is fully sustainable.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: So I think that you're doing a great job there.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: I think you're doing the best you can.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: And especially with brands, I mean, that's a great place to start is to just make sure you're not creating unnecessary waste, you know, that's all we can really do, you know, as a as a you know, uh as a community.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: But going back to your point about formulations, I love that.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: I love that you really thought it out because you're right, you know, waterproof is a must, you know, pigment is a must.
27:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, I was gonna actually tell you the brush is divine, by the way.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: For everyone listening, it's such a nice brush.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Like you could even use it for your face makeup.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's so nice.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: It's so nice.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Like, and it's it's very well crafted.
27:29
SPEAKER_02: So you know that like, you know, the thought has gone into every piece of the of the of the brand.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think with a situation or or with a concern like you know, like hair loss, you want to make sure that the brand founder has thought everything through, you know, and it's like you don't want any corners cut, you don't want any BS.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's very important what you said, which was you know, yeah, you don't want to be somewhere like a wedding or a meeting, and you know, all of a sudden you've got you know pigment running down your face.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Like it's gonna be so embarrassing.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: So I feel like you know, there's a there's a lot of components here, and I actually wanted to suggest.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know you mentioned um jojoba oil, but I wanted to suggest that I feel like you should play around with your formulation with coconut oil because I kid you not okay with cocoa.
28:16
SPEAKER_02: I swear by coconut oil.
28:18
SPEAKER_02: Like I tell so many friends, yeah, like I grew up, my mother every day used to give me a coconut hair massage, and she swore by it, and so did my grandmother.
28:28
SPEAKER_02: And it's I'm telling you, there's something about coconut oil that makes hair grow.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: There could very well be.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm not familiar with it, but I will definitely do the research.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: I've always looking for great ideas for improving our formulas.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Definitely want to continue to improve them.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: And also, you know, because it's it's a great formula as it is, you know.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all critiquing the formula, but it's also like something I would be very interested in as a consumer to see you come out with is like a primer, you know what I mean?
28:55
SPEAKER_02: Like a kind of call it a primer, even though you don't need one.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: The formula doesn't need one, you don't need anything to prime your hair, by the way, for everyone listening, but nor to set it because a lot of products you need to put aside.
29:05
SPEAKER_02: You don't need anything, you don't need yeah, you don't need any extra products from you know, everything is great the way it is, but like if we were to go down that road, like it would be cool to incorporate it as a primer, you know, or a hair gel or something that people can because you know, I think when it comes to like you know, natural remedies, there's a lot of things people can use, but I would rather see it done by a line that you know is solution-oriented, like yours.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and test it for us, testing is really important.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Like we do HRIPT studies on our products.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we do, you know, full-blown independent consumer studies.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: And so um I think that that's that's great.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: I will definitely take a look at that because we we like to try everything and make sure it works and then test it, and then you know, great new ideas, anything we can do would be fantastic.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: So I'm definitely gonna take that back to the lab and start noodling over it.
29:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, absolutely.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I would love to help if you ever need me.
29:59
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, no, everyone listening, I really am a huge fan of the line.
30:02
SPEAKER_02: I I think that, you know, with something like hair loss, like I said, it's not an easy fix.
30:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not something that you're gonna put a serum on and tomorrow your hair's gonna grow back.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, even the studies I've seen, it's like baby hairs grow.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: And I'm um Camille, I'm sure you've seen the same studies I'm talking about where it's like, you know, five baby hairs grow back, but then it's like a plant, right?
30:21
SPEAKER_02: So it's like it sprouted, but now how much care is it gonna take to make that into a full hair, you know, like a like a piece of hair, like that actually grows because then you have things like breakage, and it's uh you know, it just goes back to the whole idea of we don't really have the solutions yet.
30:38
SPEAKER_02: So in the meantime, you know, in the meantime, you gotta cover it up, cover it up.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Cover if it bothers you, you know what I think it's great.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: The women who are out there, I don't have the chaps to shave off my head.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I really wish I could, and I really truly applaud the women who do.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: I wish I had it in me.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't, but we love you, Jada, but honestly, we're not all.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: We don't have a perfect, you know, all of us don't have a perfect head, you know.
31:03
SPEAKER_02: So it's very difficult for us to if I were to shave my head, I could you not I always like make a joke.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm like the back of my head is flat, I feel like.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: So if I were to shave my head, it would be a scary sight.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: So I don't think I would be able to do that, you know.
31:17
SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, no, I I think it's a great, great, great uh, you know, idea and you've really brought it to life.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just I'm a huge fan.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: I love everything that you're doing.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Um so everyone listening, if you know somebody who suffers from hair loss or if you're suffering from hair loss, I really recommend this, you know, as a real option.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, it's it's one thing to make claims, which a lot of you know, pharmaceutical companies that create these products like serums, they do make up a lot of claims, but it's a whole different thing to immediately see results.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: And if that's something that you know that you need, if you're waking up in the morning and you're not, you know, it it's impacting you emotionally, then it's what Camille and I were talking about.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: Cover it up, you know, make it the way you want it to look, and then go out there for you know with your day and and start the day fresh.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, I really am a strong believer in that.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: We do it with everything else.
32:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, we put makeup on our face, we cover our acne, we cover it that's it.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the root of our entire mission statement, which, you know, we thought about it for some time.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, look, let's call it what it is.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: We're taking things that people are self-conscious about and making them confident about it.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times I find in the industry, and and I understand why people are coming at it from this, there's a lot of um sometimes criticism because folks are saying, well, we're telling people that they don't look their best the way they are naturally.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think, well, until you've walked in someone's shoes, we need to validate the feelings that they are experiencing.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: And it is loud and clear.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: If you go onto any Reddit, um, you know, there's the female hair loss um form, um sub thread that I'm on, that many of us are on, a lot of these different um online communities for support, um, is that it really does affect us.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: So please don't tell me that I don't, I shouldn't be affected by this.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: I am affected by this.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to validate the fact that this can really make people self-conscious.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: And so that really went to the root of why fix it, quote unquote, where some people are like, well, just own it.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, you know, that's not how everybody feels when they're experiencing this.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: So for us, that was a big part of our mission statement was validating the experience that people who go through hair loss feel.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: And that is generally very self-conscious.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's okay to be self-conscious.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, people need to be kind to themselves and not beat themselves up for feeling bad because somebody on one side has an illness that perhaps uh could end their life or is debilitating physically, but you know, and so that can sometimes negate how or make people feel like their emotions aren't valid because of something that's affecting them that's purely cosmetic.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you know what?
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Mental effects of things are just as devastating many times as things that are physically debilitating.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's not a comparison of which is better for worse or worse, it's just acknowledging um and respecting the fact that people really do experience a lot of distress.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And so for us, that really went to the mission of acknowledging it's okay to be self-conscious.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Trust me, we all are.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: And if people are telling you they're not, good on them.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: But probably most of them are.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, absolutely.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, it's it's it is about, you know, it's about finding your confidence and it's about whatever it takes to do that.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: You know, a confident person is going to be at least 50% more productive in their day than somebody who uh doesn't feel like that, you know, from the hair go.
34:35
SPEAKER_02: And I and I really, really am a huge believer in that.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: I think we have so many like, you know, um cultural practices nowadays that people are which I love by the way, people are engaging in, like meditation, you know, just uh self-talk and like you know, just positivity, which is great.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: But it's like it's another thing to see something that you feel is lacking about you, which I mean, you know, we all have our our things, you know.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: I have things like that about myself that I see and I don't like.
35:00
SPEAKER_02: And if you can fix that and make it look the way you like, and if that helps you, there's nothing wrong with that.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: And you know, and that's another thing is like I wanted to say this before you know we close this episode is that the body positivity is relative.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: You don't have to look at somebody else and think I have to do it exactly like them to feel body positive.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: No, it's body positivity, and I really blame social media for this, Camille, because I feel like you know, in in the whole movement of body positivity, people have created these protocols that we should live by to actually be quote, body positive.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: And I hate that because I think it's limiting, you know, to a lot of people.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, we really need to revisit that conversation as a community and realize that to be body positive means to feel good about what you're doing, how you look, how you feel about the way you look.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: And this is, you know, this product and this brand is just another way for you to really incorporate that into your life.
35:55
SPEAKER_02: So I really applaud you, Camille.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: I think you're doing a great job.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: I love your vision.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: I love what Me Cosmetics is all about, and I can't wait to see what you guys do next.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: So thank you, Dr.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Ecta.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: It's been a pleasure to talk to you.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we're here for anybody whoever has questions and just know, and this is what is always really important to me to end on when I talk to, you know, when I have access to a platform that's as wonderful and special as this is to let the women out there know, those of you who are suffering, you're not alone.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to suffer in silence.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Come find us, we're all here for you.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: Very well said.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: I I completely second that.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: And for anyone listening, if you have, you know, something you want to add to the conversation, you have any questions or you know, comments or anything, um, let us know.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, send me a message.
36:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh, you can email me directly, leave it in the comments.
36:43
SPEAKER_02: We'll pass it on to Camille's team.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, we we just want everyone to feel like you're getting the education you want about this topic or whatever it is that you're curious about.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: So definitely reach out and, you know, um, I I hope you guys love the episode.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: And if you did, I would really I request everyone please go on to Apple Podcasts and leave us a written review because that helps us a lot in terms of our growth.
37:06
SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much and thank you, Camille.
37:08
SPEAKER_02: This was so lovely.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Hecta.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Have yourself a wonderful rest of day.
37:12
SPEAKER_01: You too.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Bye.
37:14
unknown: Bye.
37:15
SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
37:17
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37:22
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37:24
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37:56
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38:00
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38:10
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38:17
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38:22
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.