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Former Australian Soldier Charged with Murder · The Slippery Slope

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  Hi, Jay Fallon. Thank you for listening to the
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  slippery slope. We're very interesting story
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  coming up here. If you're watching on YouTube
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  check it out. Read the story to you the family
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  of killed Afghan. Villager wants more, ADF
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  Personnel to be brought to trial after arrest of former SAS
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  Soldier Oliver shilts. So a rudimentary grave and Rule
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  Afghan in the rule Afghan. Village holds the secret to the
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  first war crimes case to be held in Australia against a member of
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  the country's military. So for more than a decade, the
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  family of farmer and father of two, dad, Muhammad have prayed
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  at his grave in Euros, gone province in southern Afghanistan
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  for the Australian SAS soldiers, involved in his killing to face
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  trial. So more than 11,000 kilometers
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  away. Details of the killing were
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  finally heard this week in a Sydney courtroom.
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  With one decorated essay is veteran, face to charge of War
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  crime, murder. So, Oliver, Jordan Schultz 41 is
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  the first current or former Australian, Defence Force, ATF,
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  member ever. To be charged with war crime, in
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  Australia, after he was arrested in Southern New South Wales last
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  week in relation to the killing yesterday Sydney's Downing
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  Center. Local Court, was told that mr.
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  Schultz was filmed on a helmet camera, shooting the allegedly
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  The unarmed disabled man who is lying still in a wheat field
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  during a raid on his village in 2012.
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  That video was revealed by ABC investigations good old ABC.
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  Don't you love them anyway, revealed by ABC investigations
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  and the Four Corners program in 2020.
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  Sparking a three-year criminal probe, so the arrest was hailed
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  as unprecedented among Australia's Western allies who
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  has so far, resisted trying, their military personnel, for
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  alleged war crimes in civilian courts.
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  So, continuing on this is, however, the trial of mr.
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  Schultz will not go far enough for the family of dad Muhammad
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  who spoke with the ABC from the farm where he died.
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  He said mr. Schultz is not the only man that
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  came here said, Dad, Muhammad's brother Jamshed.
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  Speaking through a translator, do we want those people who took
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  part in this operation? All of them should be arrested
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  and tried all of them, all of them.
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  That's what he says the mr. Muhammad's family lost hope long
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  ago that they would ever see, Justice Afghan Villages first
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  complain to the ADF about the killing months after the 2012
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  rate. However, ATF investigators
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  cleared mr. Schultz concluding, that Dad
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  Muhammad was lawfully killed because he posed a direct threat
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  to this dry. Inside that phrase, every time I
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  see that phrase lawfully killed, whether its military and police.
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  So it always strikes me as very odd because, you know, we can
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  wait, anything can be justified. What can be lawful today in?
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  What is it? March of 2023 can easily be
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  illegal in March 2024 and no longer lawful and then we tend
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  to look at things retrospectively, or was it
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  lawful back? Then can we change the laws?
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  Someone decides that they want. To change what was lawful and
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  start looking at things retrospectively no longer
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  lawfully, kill him. Anyway it's always struck me.
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  As a weird phrase just out of know investigators were told the
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  Afghan man was holding a radio and tactically maneuvering which
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  it's easy to see, okay? When you're in the Heat of the
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  Moment, when you're in a war zone, you're living in a war
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  zone. How someone holding holding
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  prayer beads, as we find out later, that's apparently what he
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  was doing holding prayer beads and maybe wriggling around.
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  Maybe your perception of it. Is he is a threat anyway, so mr.
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  Schultz was granted bail yesterday after Sydney's Downing
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  Center. Local Court heard.
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  He was at risk from Islamic extremist groups and Taliban
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  sympathizes inside prison. Do you think it's it's a little
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  strange that in Australia. We have Islamic Miss groups and
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  Taliban thin sympathizers inside our prisons.
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  One would think that possibly if you are a Taliban sympathizer or
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  you're in a Islamic extremist group participant, the maybe the
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  Australian government could put you on a plane and send you back
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  to Afghanistan? You know, you're a sympathizer,
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  go back or whatever. If you love the Taliban, so
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  much, Coco go live. Give go and live with the
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  Taliban anyway. So magistrate, Jennifer Atkinson
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  told the bail hearing that the helmet cam video of The Killing
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  showed that mr. Muhammad was quiet and not
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  resisting when mr. Schultz shot him.
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  She said mr. Mohammed could be seen lying on
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  his back and holding prayer beads in one of his raised hands
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  after conversation with other Patrol members Shields turns
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  towards the Afghan man and shoots towards him three.
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  Three times. Magistrate Atkinson said the man
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  appears to go limp after the first shot and is not moving.
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  Now, look, if you look at this evidence and I'm not going, I'm
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  not giving any, you know, I'm not saying he's guilty or not
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  guilty. I just I was thinking when you
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  looking back it's easy to look back at video and slow things
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  down and have a good look at what you can see on the video
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  and all your, this is what's actually happening when you're
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  in a situation and you have to make a decision quickly.
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  Your perception at that time can be completely skewed by so many
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  by the situation that you're in. What you think.
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  You see may not be actually what is happening.
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  Your perception can be very different to the facts on the
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  ground but you're in a war, a war zone.
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  And you have to make a decision quickly.
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  What someone can see is being prayer beads when you when
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  you're sitting there watching a video and able to analyze it,
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  you may think is actually a bomb Detonator in their hand and
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  there. Fiddling with that.
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  Your life, you think in your head, your life is under threat.
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  But it's always easy for us to sit there in the comfort of our
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  chairs, and watch a video and think.
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  Oh no, no, no. This is clearly showing the man
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  is guilty. I'm not saying he's not guilty,
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  I just yeah you know when it comes to war zones, think
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  There's always other things to take into account anyway.
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  So goes on to say prosecutors allege mr.
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  Hamid was not involved in active hostilities.
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  Apparently we have to take their word for that.
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  The ADF awarded mr. Schultz, a commendation for
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  gallantry for his service in Afghanistan, but the court was
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  told, he was suspended from Duty days after the Four Corners
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  report and and terminated on medical grounds and February 20
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  21. Speaking with the ABC before the
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  hearing mr. Ma Muhammad's, brother Jem,
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  sheep said, Witnesses and others involvements on the operation.
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  Should also be scrutinized in an open court.
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  I would agree with this if they also brought the politicians
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  into court as well, the people that made the decisions to send
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  the military to Afghanistan Afghanistan, which in my head
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  me, You know, I'm not claiming to be any kind of great
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  intelligence officer here but in my head going to Afghanistan to
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  fight the Taliban was never going to be a good.
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  There's never going to see a good outcome anyway, but you
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  know what, do I know? It goes on to say there were
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  other people with him, it was a complete military Patrol.
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  He said several aircraft landed here, so the family of dad
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  Muhammad has no photos but which to remember him instead the
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  thumb the blood Stay in clothing that he wore when he was killed.
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  I love the way this this article.
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  He's got no photos. I mean, you know, it's a society
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  that's been around a culture has been around for thousands of
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  years and suddenly this group need a photo.
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  Anyway, according to his family, dad Muhammad managed to run the
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  household, despite conditioning stunted growth, in one leg,
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  Muhammad had two daughters a newborn and a toddler at the
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  time of his death, who now have no memory of him.
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  So, The whole lot equal cells Muhammad as he's obviously a
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  righteous and virtuous person, make sure maybe he was, but I
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  just don't like when they're write it up in his articles.
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  Like obviously we have the bad Australian military man and the
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  humble. Virtuous righteous Afghan man.
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  You know, did no harm never did anything wrong in his life.
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  He was just laying there on his back.
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  Holding his prayer beads. So jump, she was just a teenager
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  at the time and in response to the killing Killing.
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  He took up arms with the Taliban, isn't it?
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  Funny, the war is going on. There is who knows how much
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  blood and violence is follow seen.
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  But when he saw his brother killed, that's when he decided
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  that is what, that was the final straw.
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  That was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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  And he decided he had to take up.
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  He had to take up arms with the Taliban after that.
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  This all this is all Schultz's fault.
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  If Shields hadn't have killed and who killed dad Muhammad, and
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  he wouldn't have taken up arms. That's what they'd have, you
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  believe, reading this. He said the drift Grove his
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  parents to misery and illness. My father has become so
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  debilitated because of his Sorrows, it's the same situation
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  with my mother who is all the time on medication.
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  We suffered Financial damage in the millions in Afghan currency.
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  Look, I'm not going to read the rest of the article and just my
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  this opens up such a massive can of worms, you're in a war zone.
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  What you think is going on? What your perception is can be
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  so different. Towards actually happening.
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  At the end of the day, you'll government sends you into a war
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  zone to fight who they say, is the enemy.
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  And then you are going around making split-second decisions on
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  who is the enemy, who's a threat who was not a threat?
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  The trouble is people who are perceived as not being threat.
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  So many times, as we, as we know happened in Afghanistan and in
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  the Iraq War. So many times people who you'd
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  think well, they're not a threat.
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  And in reality they were And then so innocent soldiers died
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  because they didn't want to kill, you know, women and
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  children, who ultimately had detonators in their hands or
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  guns hidden, things like this and then innocent soldiers, die.
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  So what do you do when you're in a war zone?
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  You're in a war zone. Do you really is?
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  My question, is this going to affect the amount of people that
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  will be volunteering to join and Military?
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  Because if you do something accidentally when you're in a
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  war zone then you run the risk of coming back and being held in
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  civilian court. It's not to say that you should
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  not be held accountable for your actions.
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  If you've done something on purpose, if you gone out of your
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  way to kill person. Unlawfully apparently, But then
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  if we're going to look for justice, these people need
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  Justice. These Afghan is need Justice.
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  Do they need Justice from the one person who pulled the
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  trigger will do? They all known also need just as
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  from the people who made the decisions to send the app to
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  send the military there in the first place.
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  I don't know if I can give my opinion.
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  Opens up can of worms that I think is far too.
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  Well let's just say I can understand why Western why?
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  The other Western allies have been very hesitant at sending
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  their Military Officers to civilian courts.
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  I don't know where this is going to go this cool case.
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  It'll be very interesting to follow.
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  Let me know what you think. I think it's very dangerous, to
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  be honest, very dangerous for our Australian military
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  personnel. We already have a very high
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  suicide rate amongst the Australian military.
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  So let me know. Does this kind of action
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  bringing A military personnel to a civilian Court.
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  Like this does this kind of action actually bring Justice
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  and is it helpful is it something that we should be
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  doing? Let me know what you think.
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  That's all I got to say on it. Thanks for listening to the
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  slippery slope. Let me know what you think.
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  That's all I got to say on it. Thanks for listening to the
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  slippery slope.