Latest / Best of Business / Dougal Sutherland: Umbrella Wellbeing Principal Psychologist on the economic costs of unwell workers pushing through

Transcript

Dougal Sutherland: Umbrella Wellbeing Principal Psychologist on the economic costs of unwell workers pushing through · Best of Business

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed Be
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Cry and Bridge.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Looks like you're not doing your boss any favor by
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: going to work while you're unwell. Umbrella Well Being Reckons.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Businesses are losing billions of dollars a year due to
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: workers pushing through while they're physically or mentally unwell. Umbrella
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: principal psychologist doctor Doggal Sutherland is with me Hi Dogle.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: How are you good evening, Ryan?
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: I'm well, Thank you.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Good to have you on the show. So you're calling
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: this presentism as opposed to absenteeism, what is it?
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, absenteeism is where people are absent from the
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: workplace because they're sick, easy to count. Noticeable. Presentism is
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: when people are physically present in the workplace but they
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: are not performing at their full level of productivity. And
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: we would say that that's at least a third or
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: more decline in productivity. So you're sitting at your desk,
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: but you're really mentally kind of not fully there, so
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: you're not able to work to your full capacity. And
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: we think it's a very hidden cost for employers because
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: it's very hard to count. But as you say that,
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: you know, an estimate is that it's costing over forty
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: billion dollars in lost productivity every year to New Zealand.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Where's that estimate come from.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Look, it's based on some averages, So people saying, look,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: thirty if we go on the idea that thirty three
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: percent less productivity, and that that average is out at
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: about two thousand dollars per worker in lost productivity per month.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: So this is people saying that I lose about six
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: days per month, and then if you average that out
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: across the entire population. So look, it's a big estimate.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: And we're wanting to spark a conversation about this because
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: there's not a lot of good research around us. So
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: it's a first attempt at trying to get some numbers
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: on this particular phenomena. We know this phenomena occurs, there's
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: lots of research internationally that shows it, and so we're
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: trying to somehow put some figures on this.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough, let's put the physical ailments to a
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: side for a second, just to focus on the psychological
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Are you not better off being at work? I mean,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: even if you're not from and this is from the
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: individual's perspective, not the companies. But are you not better
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: off being at work if you're feeling down depressed? Maybe
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: not one hundred percent? Are you not better off being
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: around people rather than at home moping?
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: There is certainly an argument, and we will sort of
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: distinguished between different types of presenteeism. So there are types
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: of presenteeism when yes, it's probably useful for you to
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: be at work, But I think the key thing is
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: acknowledging that that's actually going on. The big cost here
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: is when it's hidden, when the manner you're the boss,
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: the organization doesn't know it's happening, and the person is
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: there pretending almost to work, and then the organization scratching
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: it to here, going gee, why aren't we as productive
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: as we usually are? We already know that New Zealand
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: is one of the least productive countries in the OECD,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: and we scratch our heads, going, I wonder why that is?
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Because we work longer hours in many other countries in
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: the OE c D. And maybe this is part of
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: it that actually we're working longer but not doing a
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: heck of a lot.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe some what's the I guess what's the alternative for
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the for the manager or the business owner, you know,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: having that person not be at work, which would which
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: would be even less productive. Well, you know, well how
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: many days I mean six days you mentioned six days
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: per month. That's that's that's a lot of time off.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: So it's about how we structure that work. I heard
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: somebody today say, hey, I do this all the time
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: because I'm the only person in my job or in
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: my organization that can do my particular job, so I
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: have to work well. That smacks to me of a
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: job that isn't well designed because there's no redundancy, there's
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: no backup in that job. So you're relying on one
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: single person. Now that person is there and you think, oh,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: we must be doing well. Actually they could be functioning
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: at thirty three percent less or even worse in their productivity.
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: So organizations and businesses need to look at we're kind
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: of fooling ourselves. We think that because somebody is physically
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: present in the workplace, they must be working. And I
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: think that's why we're seeing this as a hidden cost,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: because we just look at the fact that somebody is
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: sitting there or standing there in their job, and we
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: think therefore they must be producing and we think it's
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: possibly cheaper if you're actually having some built in redundancies
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: into your workplace.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Interesting, Doctor Dougal Sutherland, Umbrella Principal Psychologists really appreciate your
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: time for
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: More from news talks that'd be listen live or online,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: and keep our shows with you wherever you go with
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: our podcasts on iHeartRadio