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Jordan Bianchi: This Trial Will Change NASCAR Forever | Lights Out With John Roberts · Kenny Wallace Media

• 0:00
  If NASCAR loses this, I mean, they could theoretically be
• 0:03
  ordered to sell their tracks that they, you know, the judge
• 0:06
  could theoretically RIP up the charter agreement.
• 0:09
  Now, he may institute some other level of a charter system, but
• 0:13
  he also could just say this charter system's gone.
• 0:15
  You're going to start from scratch.
• 0:16
  And then the other side of this is if 2311 in front row lose,
• 0:20
  it's fair to say that those teams are likely not going to be
• 0:23
  around anymore. They're out there, 6 charters.
• 0:31
  Welcome everybody, it is time to go lights out with the one and
• 0:34
  only Jordan Bianchi from theathletic.com.
• 0:37
  But also doing some stuff for Dirty MO Media right now.
• 0:40
  Jordan I imagine all that with all that's going on in the world
• 0:44
  of NASCAR, that that's plenty to keep you busy, isn't it?
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  And there is no offseason. There's a non racing season, but
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  there is a non offseason. There's always something going
• 0:53
  on. And you know, as we record this,
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  I got to be in court for a hearing tomorrow on the on the
• 0:57
  ongoing trial. So there, there's always
• 1:00
  something down the Pike. Yeah, Jordan, I think it's
• 1:03
  probably a big challenge for you guys that cover it day in and
• 1:07
  day out. Some sometimes we get questions
• 1:10
  in our or in our part of the business.
• 1:13
  But for you is it must be difficult when we hear things,
• 1:17
  we always hear injunctions and stays and all these different
• 1:21
  words and terms and everything that don't really mean much to
• 1:24
  the regular public. What, what kind of a challenge
• 1:27
  has that been for you to try to bring this to your viewers and
• 1:29
  your listeners that are trying to make heads and tails of this
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  lawsuit? Well, I give a big shout out to
• 1:36
  my university, University of Wisconsin or Falls, They went
• 1:39
  with journalism classes. They there was a lot of legal
• 1:42
  stuff we had to learn. And as they're teaching us,
• 1:45
  they're like, you may not think you're going to need to know
• 1:47
  this someday, but you will. And that's 100% accurate.
• 1:51
  And I always tell people in general, like, you know, I tell
• 1:54
  people what I do for a living. I cover NASCAR, I'm a reporter
• 1:56
  and they're like, oh, you talked about write about cars going in
• 1:59
  circles. And I'm like, well, sure, I
• 2:01
  guess. But I also cover billion dollar
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  lawsuits, injuries, people, you know, potentially dying or have
• 2:08
  died, you know, billion dollar contracts, I mean, etcetera,
• 2:12
  etcetera, right, that. But that's what sports is now.
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  It's just not about what happens on the field, mom or on the
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  racetrack. It's about everything else.
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  And so when you do cover this, I like to step back and I always
• 2:23
  say I like to write for a broader, I tend to write for a
• 2:26
  broader audience at the Athletic, which is part of the
• 2:29
  New York Times. And I always say I'm writing for
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  my mom and I want to write it so that, you know, maybe she's not
• 2:34
  a NASCAR fan per SE, but she understands what's going on
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  here. And it's, it's, it's OK to over
• 2:42
  explain sometimes and maybe just say, hey, here's what you need
• 2:44
  to know. And kind of cut down to it a
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  little bit because I, I think it's, it's really easy to get
• 2:50
  lost in the minutia, all of this and get confused.
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  And it's, it's, and people are like, I don't want to, I don't
• 2:55
  know what's going on. Can you explain to me?
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  It's like, I just want to be up front.
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  This is really confusing for everybody.
• 3:00
  So let's, here's what you need to know.
• 3:01
  Let's just keep it simple. So Jordan with at the risk of
• 3:06
  oversimplifying it, I think we all remember and, and
• 3:09
  occasionally I paid attention in school, it was pretty rare, but
• 3:13
  I remember the Sherman Antitrust Act and what it meant is
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  somebody can't have a monopoly or a total control over a
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  business. And what I'm basically getting
• 3:23
  out of the whole thing is that Denny Hamlin, Michael Jordan,
• 3:26
  2311 in Front Row Motorsports, they feel as if their hands are
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  somewhat tied by NASCAR having the total control over the
• 3:34
  charge and total control over the business.
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  And then NASCAR is kind of saying back, well, it's our
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  business, it's our ball, and if you want to play in our court,
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  you use our ball. Is that oversimplifying a little
• 3:46
  too much? No, I mean, it's that's probably
• 3:49
  that's probably the best way to explain it in the layman's
• 3:52
  terms, right? Like this is they feel like
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  NASCAR has a monopoly and they've operated themselves in a
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  monopolistic practices and they don't agree with it.
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  And so they they're in court. And now this, you know, stems
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  from the charters and the charter agreement and how that
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  all came to be in the negotiated deal that came into place last
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  year were 13 to 15 teams signed and the two that didn't, 2311
• 4:14
  front row that filed a lawsuit. But at the end of the day, this
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  is what they're alleging is that NASCAR, its CEO and chairman Jim
• 4:20
  France have acted in the monopoly and they're in court to
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  hammer this out. And where this goes is going to
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  be fascinating. And the potential implications
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  for this on either side are very, very significant.
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  Yeah, That was the next thing I wanted to ask you, and I'm glad
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  you brought that up because this also, we cannot oversimplify and
• 4:42
  we can't underestimate what it really could mean.
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  And I think also, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but some
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  of the things have been dropped recently.
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  Some of the complaints by the teams have been dropped and
• 4:56
  pared back just a little bit to where the implications might not
• 5:00
  be as huge. But if NASCAR loses this thing,
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  Jordan, Nick, it can really change the way we can change the
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  sport in a great way. Can it?
• 5:08
  It could change a significant way.
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  I mean, if NASCAR loses this, I mean, they could theoretically
• 5:13
  be ordered to sell their tracks that they own.
• 5:16
  You know, the judge could theoretically RIP up the charter
• 5:19
  agreement. Now, he may institute some other
• 5:21
  level of a charter system, but he also could just say this
• 5:24
  charter system's gone. You're going to start from
• 5:26
  scratch. And then if that's the case, the
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  teams that have paid many millions of dollars for charters
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  would theoretically be out that money.
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  And you know, that's potentially impact TV contracts because how
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  are those written and that that kind of thing.
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  And so there's all sorts of different dominoes on and how
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  this would fall. How does the power power
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  structure with the NASCAR work? Does the France family still
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  control everything? Are they still making grand
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  decisions? Is it still a private business
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  per SE where they get to dictate how this is going to go forward?
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  Or do they now have to bring in everybody else?
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  And has this become more of a league type structure like we
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  see in the NFL? It means League Baseball and the
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  such. So there's that.
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  And then the other side of this is if 2311 in front row lose,
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  it's fair to say that those teams are likely not going to be
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  around anymore. They're out there 6 charters
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  they which they have paid millions of dollars for and
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  those they will be reimbursed for that I believe, don't hold
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  me to that, but I believe they'd be reimbursed for that, but they
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  would be effectively out of the business.
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  They're not going to have charters.
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  Both teams have said if they don't have charters, we're not
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  going to race. And so NASCAR then is going to
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  lose 2 teams, one of which is owned by Michael Co, owned by
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  Michael Jordan, which is never, you know, to, to say, hey,
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  we're, you know, there's all sorts of that stuff.
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  So it just gets complicated. Yes.
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  But the, the, the impact of this potentially one way or another
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  is, is very significant. That all being said, you would
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  hope that cooler heads will prevail and that they will come
• 6:50
  to a settlement, but I've been saying that for the last year
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  since this lawsuit was filed and here we are about 3 weeks away
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  from trial date and we're still have no settlement.
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  So I have no idea. Man, Jordan, I was right there
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  with you when this first thing came up and people were saying,
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  hey, man, a team is suing NASCAR.
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  What? What's going to go on?
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  I just thought myself said, well, OK, you got complaints on
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  both sides and you can see the arguments on both sides and
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  they'll they'll just get together and iron this thing
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  out. But man, that's really not what
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  we're looking at. No, I mean, they, they've been
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  close. I mean, I mean reported a few
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  weeks ago that, you know, they were, there were negotiations
• 7:30
  were down the road and there was a belief that a settlement could
• 7:32
  potentially be reached around the Phoenix race weekend.
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  That did not happen and it still hasn't.
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  But, you know, as these things go, and you talk to a lot of, a
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  lot of people smarter than I am when it comes to antitrust
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  lawsuits, they tell you it's not uncommon that this goes right up
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  to the, the last minute and then there's some kind of settlement
• 7:50
  reach. It's also not uncommon for a
• 7:51
  trial to begin. And then day one, day 2 of that
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  trial, both sides kind of look around and go, we're really
• 7:57
  doing this seriously. OK, We, we, we, we didn't mean
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  to go this far. And then, you know, cool, you
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  know, then they hammer out a settlement.
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  So there's still time. Maybe I'm an, an optimist, maybe
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  I'm, you know, I'm not a little pie in the sky, but I, I believe
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  that there will eventually be a settlement reach just because
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  it's just advantageous for both sides to come to some kind of
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  compromise. Yeah, I'm with you.
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  That's what I'm hoping for. But also to take a step back for
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  some of our listeners, Jordan. I think we saw guys like Darryl
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  Waltrip, Mikey Waltrip, Ricky Rudd, Ricky and Linda Rudd that
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  had put their lives into these. Race.
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  Teams and when it came time to disband the race team, they
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  opened the garage door and sold all their equipment for pennies
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  on the dollars. NASCAR wanted to and I believe
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  in good faith to give these people something.
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  Hence the charter came about and the top 35, I guess it was in
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  points at at the time or 36 and at the time they were awarded
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  these charters which were very valuable.
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  So in my mind, in the 1st place to to make it so not that
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  everybody is going to be the Dallas Cowboys, but to make it
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  so your race team is worth something.
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  But they gave you a charter. And therefore, if you went to
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  the racetrack with this charter, you got more money.
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  You were able to guarantee yourself a spot in the race, and
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  you're also able to make more prize money as opposed to
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  somebody who's without a charter.
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  So in this case, Jordan, do you see it the same way?
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  I see it as it it seemed as if NASCAR was really trying to
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  throw these teams a bone. Yeah, I mean, listen, there is
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  no disagreement. They're 100% correct.
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  Like NASCAR to its credit, went along with the charter system.
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  They didn't have to. They it was almost a good faith
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  kind of thing they did because they wanted to give value to the
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  teams and to owners who have invested a lot of money into
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  this. And that's your point.
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  There's a lot of teams that have closed their doors over the
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  years. When it was time to, to shut the
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  door, they got nothing, you know, virtually.
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  And ASCO was like, no, we need a healthy sport.
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  We need healthy teams and the healthy teams are going to help
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  grow the sport. Here's what we can do.
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  And so that was where the charter system was born and from
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  that is where we are today. Initially the charters were not,
• 10:09
  they were, they were low. I mean, you could get a charter
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  for about $2,000,000 when it's all started.
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  And now, you know, you're the last charter that was sold was
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  for 45,000,000. So it's, the system has grown
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  astronomically in about 10 years.
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  And that's Tenascar's credit. Like they, they instituted the
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  system and they, they put the guardrails in place and they
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  made this work. And, you know, and from their
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  perspective, I'm not trying to speak for them there.
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  There's a frustration of we did all these things.
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  We've acted in good faith when it came to the charter
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  agreement. They say we did, you know, we
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  instituted it. We'd give rewarded teams, we
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  gave them this when we didn't have to.
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  You know, last year, 13 teams were on board with this, this
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  new agreement. And yet two of them weren't.
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  And they're suing us. And it there, there's a little
• 10:51
  frustration and confusion there and that kind of thing.
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  So it's part of it. And it's again, like when you
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  got so much money at the table, there's enough piece of
• 11:01
  financial pie for everybody. Let's just figure out how to
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  divide it out and make everybody whole.
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  Yep, there, there's no question about that, that I I think there
• 11:10
  could be common ground, but also at the same time, it's a little
• 11:13
  bit difficult to come to an agreement when there's so many
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  strong opinions. And I think that kind of leads
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  us to our next subject. Jordan.
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  I for one, and I don't know if I'm minority majority or
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  whatever. I love the way NASCAR went to a
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  playoff system. They have a Super Bowl game, 7
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  World Series feeling to it. But recently there's just been a
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  ton of fans that have been up in arms about the way we we crown a
• 11:39
  champion. I like it.
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  I don't want to see it change, but I'll also support the
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  sanctioning body if this change is really coming.
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  What do you hear from your people that is the change
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  coming, do you think, and will it be major?
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  There there is 100% a change coming to the platform.
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  There will be a big change to the playoff format Now what that
• 12:03
  change is going to be exactly is up in the air.
• 12:07
  The things bandied about the most are returning to a season
• 12:10
  long full 36 race championship. You know basically whoever's got
• 12:15
  the most points across 36 races, you win the championship.
• 12:18
  There's also a heavy discussion centered around the 10 race
• 12:22
  chase going back to that, which is you have 10 or 12 drivers and
• 12:27
  over the last 10 races whoever's got the most points there when
• 12:30
  the championship. So you'd still have a playoff,
• 12:32
  but you wouldn't have elimination.
• 12:34
  There's also been some talk of A334 format, which would then
• 12:38
  also incorporate eliminations. But what it would do what is not
• 12:44
  current a champion with one single championship race, if you
• 12:47
  will, like Game 7, but a four race stretch where a certain
• 12:52
  number of drivers who accumulate the most points that were four
• 12:54
  races would then be current a champion.
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  I will put any money that I have, which is not a lot, on the
• 13:01
  fact that one of these formats is probably going to be in place
• 13:04
  next year. There will be a change of
• 13:06
  playoff format. What we have known for the last
• 13:08
  10 years or 11 since 2014 is not going to be in place for next
• 13:13
  year. I I can promise you that it's
• 13:15
  going to change. It's just a matter of how it's
• 13:17
  going to change. So Jordan TV ratings are down.
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  We know that with the exception of the Xfinity Series and
• 13:25
  whether that whether or not that's tied to the championship
• 13:29
  format, I think is really difficult to be, you know, for
• 13:33
  people to correlate that whether it is or whether it's not.
• 13:36
  TV ratings are down. But when I look at that, Jordan,
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  you just went to, well, it's it's spread out across more
• 13:42
  networks. It's a little bit more
• 13:44
  different, as I say, a little bit more difficult to find the
• 13:46
  races at times because of where they ship.
• 13:48
  But I think NASCAR fully knew that when they went to streaming
• 13:52
  some races, they were going to lose some view viewers.
• 13:56
  But it's somewhat duty now for the future.
• 13:59
  Yeah, I mean, there's it's so multi layered, right?
• 14:02
  This is like the biggest onion ever with all employees.
• 14:06
  You, you have to have a streaming component to your, to
• 14:08
  your, if you're going to be a sports league now, like you have
• 14:10
  to have a streaming component that is the future.
• 14:12
  You have to be on board with that.
• 14:14
  Pick a sports league, pick a major sports league and they're
• 14:16
  going to have a streaming element to them.
• 14:18
  NASCAR was slow to adapt to that when they signed their last
• 14:21
  television contract. Streaming really wasn't problem
• 14:24
  at the time, really wasn't coming to the forefront.
• 14:26
  And so NASCAR kind of got caught in the middle here with this.
• 14:29
  And now they're on board. And look at the Amazon numbers
• 14:32
  this year for the five races they've been.
• 14:34
  They were really good. They were exceptional, right?
• 14:37
  A big part of the TV deal now though that really is kind of
• 14:41
  hurting the numbers is the number of races on cable versus
• 14:44
  the number on network. And John, you know this so well
• 14:47
  from your from your experience. But.
• 14:51
  When people network, network TV is more accessible on people,
• 14:56
  it's easier to find. It's it's everything.
• 14:57
  You don't have to worry about cable packages and tiers and all
• 15:00
  that stuff. It's just easier to find.
• 15:02
  It's more readily available events on cable a specific
• 15:06
  particularly a NASCAR don't always do as well on network and
• 15:10
  now NASCAR has been impacted by that.
• 15:12
  This year cable races really kind of drugged down the number
• 15:16
  quite a bit. But when NASCAR was the most
• 15:20
  part in the beginning of the year especially, the numbers are
• 15:23
  really, really strong. They did tail off later this
• 15:26
  year, though, towards the fall. Now, some of that is the fact
• 15:31
  that more races were on cable. The other part of that is too,
• 15:34
  let's not ignore the elephant in the room, it's the NFL.
• 15:36
  The NFL is extremely popular, the NFL, and it's never been
• 15:40
  more popular than ever before. The numbers for games continue
• 15:42
  to rise almost on a yearly basis.
• 15:46
  And so it's hard to go against that.
• 15:48
  And NASCAR largely does hold its own on Sundays.
• 15:51
  Like they do deliver a very good number where outside of the NFL,
• 15:55
  they're often the number 2 most watched sport.
• 15:58
  So that's something to hang your hat on.
• 16:00
  But there is a ways to go to get that number even higher.
• 16:03
  And that's part of the changes that are kind of underway with
• 16:06
  the playoff format and maybe some other things as as well as
• 16:09
  how do you get NASCAR reposition it where you can make it, you
• 16:13
  know, basically kind of reclaim some of its past glory.
• 16:17
  And Jordan being a total realist, we, we, we've watched
• 16:20
  sports and we've watched racing our whole lives, all of us that
• 16:23
  are involved in this thing and, and we're passionate about it.
• 16:27
  And I don't think I could sit here and tell somebody if I
• 16:29
  really didn't think it was the truth.
• 16:32
  Look at some of the finishes that we have had and look at
• 16:35
  some of the diversity of winners we've had.
• 16:38
  Parity is great for sports. And also, when you look at the
• 16:41
  product on the racetrack right now, that the margin of victory.
• 16:45
  Now, granted, not every game ends and not every ball game
• 16:50
  ends in a walk off home run. Not every NFL game ends in a
• 16:54
  Hail Mary pass. Yeah, we've had some blowout
• 16:57
  races for sure. But I just think it gets too
• 16:59
  quick when people say, oh, the car sucks, OK, or, or, Oh my
• 17:03
  gosh, you know, NASCAR is just terrible because Daniel Suarez
• 17:07
  LED just about every lap of a Sonoma race.
• 17:10
  I I think you need to, as a fan, be kind of smart and embrace
• 17:13
  that and say that different races have different
• 17:16
  complexions. Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of
• 17:20
  feels like societal, right, in a way.
• 17:22
  It's like everybody wants instant satisfaction and
• 17:25
  everything is either the best or the greatest or the worst and
• 17:29
  miserable, and we need to change this.
• 17:30
  And there's no in between. And it's like, you know, look at
• 17:33
  Major League Baseball and I'm a die hard baseball fan.
• 17:35
  And it's like there's 162 games in the schedule and you don't
• 17:39
  dissect every baseball game saying this is the best or worst
• 17:43
  and we need to do XYZ. You kind of step back and you
• 17:45
  look at it from a 30,000 foot perspective.
• 17:47
  And I feel like sometimes we on this side, on NASCAR side kind
• 17:52
  of struggle to do that. And it's like every race and
• 17:55
  listen, I'm killed to this every week because I have my podcast,
• 17:57
  we have a good race poll and we vote whether the race is good or
• 17:59
  not. So I trust me, I get it, but
• 18:02
  that's just part of it. And so it's challenging and but
• 18:07
  you know, and you know you're racing is, is for the most part
• 18:11
  pretty darn good. I mean, the races on the
• 18:13
  intermediate races on tracks have been is are consistently
• 18:16
  deliver. So last few short track races
• 18:18
  have been very good. NASCAR and Goodyear have made
• 18:21
  tremendous strides to improve that.
• 18:23
  There's more changes coming next year.
• 18:25
  Like there there are criticisms of this car that are more than
• 18:29
  fair, but to just have swipe it with a broad rush and say this
• 18:33
  car sucks, it's horrible. The racing is worse than ever.
• 18:36
  That's just actually incorrect like at the period.
• 18:38
  And so that that's a struggle. But you know, when you also have
• 18:42
  so much variety now on your schedule and there is more
• 18:45
  variety in the schedule than ever before, how do you build a
• 18:49
  car that works for all these tracks?
• 18:52
  And that's the challenge. And this is part of the the
• 18:56
  frustrations that, you know, NASCAR is, is like, hey, man, we
• 18:58
  we go to a mile and a half one week, we go to a short track the
• 19:01
  next, then a road course, superspeedway.
• 19:03
  We're not doing dirt anymore, but like it, it's still how do
• 19:06
  you build all the you know, how do you build a car like this?
• 19:09
  And I think largely they do a pretty good job.
• 19:10
  Is it perfect? Absolutely not.
• 19:12
  There are still some, there's still things that can be better,
• 19:16
  but overall it it, the car has delivered as it is.
• 19:20
  But I also think that people's expectations have also shifted
• 19:24
  and everybody wants the new greatest thing.
• 19:27
  And when things are don't meet your expectations, people have
• 19:30
  an outlet like they never had before to voice their criticisms
• 19:34
  and you know what on social media and whatnot.
• 19:37
  And that that that definitely gets amplified.
• 19:40
  Yep, no question about that, especially and again, it's it's
• 19:42
  a societal type of thing. Jordan, I was a customer before
• 19:47
  I was an endorser. I'm a subscriber to The
• 19:49
  Athletic. I love it because I'm a fan of
• 19:52
  all sports. It lets you select, you know,
• 19:55
  what kind of sports you want to come to your inbox or however
• 19:59
  you take it in. That is a wonderful format.
• 20:02
  What's it like to work for The Athletic?
• 20:04
  It seems like it's a great place.
• 20:07
  It's a dream job. I have one of those jobs.
• 20:09
  I wake up every day and I'm excited and enthused about my
• 20:11
  job. And at night when I go to bed, I
• 20:14
  don't close my eyes going, oh man, I got to go to work
• 20:17
  tomorrow. Like I am incredibly blessed.
• 20:20
  Work for a great company. I get to do some amazing things.
• 20:22
  I get to cover sport that I love.
• 20:24
  I get to work in sports, which has always been a dream of mine.
• 20:27
  I am a very happy boy and I I am very blessed to to do what I do.
• 20:33
  How did you come up through the ranks, Jordan?
• 20:35
  What was your? What was your path like to get
• 20:37
  here? Well, I I wanted to be like you
• 20:41
  kind of in a way, John. I wanted to work in TVI wanted
• 20:43
  to work you. Got to set your sights higher.
• 20:46
  Yeah, well, no, I, I quick, I, I sports radio was really what I
• 20:50
  really kind of wanted to do with the ultimate goal.
• 20:52
  Then going from sports radio into TV.
• 20:55
  And I had like, what I thought was a dream job out of college.
• 20:58
  I worked for a big sports station in Minneapolis.
• 21:02
  I was not good at it. I wasn't the best at it at that
• 21:06
  time and I struggled and I quickly realized that maybe
• 21:10
  radio and everything else is not for me.
• 21:12
  And so I kind of made a diversion and I started writing
• 21:16
  and covering different sports and end up on NASCAR and the
• 21:19
  long reindeering Rd. is this is how I ended up covering NASCAR,
• 21:23
  which I've been covering in sport now full time for the
• 21:25
  last, I don't say 12 years or so.
• 21:27
  So want to do do sports radio. I love the format, loved it back
• 21:31
  then, I just lack the talent and the chops to actually
• 21:34
  successfully put off. Yeah, there's something special
• 21:38
  about sports radio. I always thought there was a
• 21:40
  great romanticism about it. And then TV, Yeah, For me, it
• 21:44
  was a dream job to work for Fox for so long.
• 21:48
  But Jordan, I think one thing today that we're all up against,
• 21:51
  and I like to talk to fellow journalists about this because I
• 21:56
  think right now it's it's like if you have a Twitter handle and
• 22:01
  you want to just say something, it seems like all of a sudden
• 22:03
  you're a journalist. And I think the people that are
• 22:06
  still out there, like the people that work with you, some of the
• 22:10
  other great beat writers we have right now for NASCAR and people
• 22:14
  that have been there for a long time are, are still telling it
• 22:17
  like it is, are still doing the right thing.
• 22:20
  But yet you still have that battle against the person.
• 22:23
  I mean, how much stuff do you see just on Facebook throughout
• 22:26
  the course of the day that, you know, people put out?
• 22:30
  So, you know, here's this great story and it's a teaser and it's
• 22:33
  click bait that that that's something that I think we all
• 22:35
  have to be aware of these days. Yeah, it's, listen, there's
• 22:40
  always challenges with social media.
• 22:42
  You know, the the mentions and the comments can be brutal
• 22:45
  sometimes, especially if you have opinions and people don't
• 22:48
  agree with you, which I have learned very, very well.
• 22:50
  And that's part of it. This is kind of what you sign up
• 22:52
  for and you agree with it. I also tell people don't read
• 22:54
  the comment section, don't read the comments section because
• 22:57
  you're going to hear things and see things that you don't want
• 22:59
  to read. But I've got a good group of
• 23:01
  people around me and then I, you know, and if I have opinions, I,
• 23:06
  I talk to them and see what they think.
• 23:07
  And, you know, my off base here and, and that kind of thing.
• 23:10
  And I think that's part of it is it's like a checks and balances.
• 23:13
  And then part of that too is being called is when I, I don't
• 23:16
  just have an opinion to spew an opinion.
• 23:19
  I, it's, it's, I Fact Check and I talk to people.
• 23:22
  I, you know, I back, I go, hey, is there numbers or is there
• 23:24
  data that can support this? You know, tell me where I'm
• 23:26
  wrong. This isn't just how I feel.
• 23:29
  It's a, well, This is why I feel this way.
• 23:31
  But then there's here's the numbers and the evidence that
• 23:33
  support this as well. And it's just, again, it's, it's
• 23:36
  being accountable, it's being respectful and it's trying to
• 23:41
  just be accurate in, in a lot of what I say.
• 23:43
  Like if I, if I say something isn't say something, it's like
• 23:46
  I'm going to back it up with facts.
• 23:48
  And I think that gets a lost a lot of times too.
• 23:51
  Is that you, you, you know, anybody can have an opinion and
• 23:54
  anybody can say something, but that doesn't make it true
• 23:56
  necessarily. And you, you do have to have
• 23:59
  evidence and, and data to back it up.
• 24:02
  And I think I do that well. And that you may not agree with
• 24:05
  what I say, but it comes from a place of listen, here's who I've
• 24:09
  talked to on this, who, who are involved in this directly.
• 24:12
  Here's the data I've read, here's the things I've read,
• 24:15
  here's the people I've talked to.
• 24:16
  Like, here's how this opinion was formed.
• 24:18
  This just wasn't grabbed out of thin air.
• 24:21
  Yeah, So I got to tell you, Jordan, my favorite one ever, it
• 24:23
  was kind of before social media really took off.
• 24:26
  We used to have message boards and we had message boards from
• 24:30
  Speed Channel and some of our producers used to watch them
• 24:32
  pretty closely. And I understand wanting to
• 24:34
  gauge, you know, what people have to say.
• 24:36
  So I thought one day, you know, well, I'm going to go ahead and
• 24:40
  look at the message boards today, you know, to see what
• 24:42
  people are saying because we just began like these 55 hours
• 24:46
  of coverage of straight coverage from Daytona speed weeks.
• 24:49
  And the first thing I see, Jordan, when I look up, there
• 24:52
  was somebody was ragging out one of my Co workers and another guy
• 24:56
  said, well, that person is fine. The guy I don't like is this
• 25:01
  John Roberts guy. And then the next thread in the
• 25:04
  message was, well, why don't you like him?
• 25:06
  And the guy says because he looks like a child molester.
• 25:11
  And I almost responded, almost responding, what does one look
• 25:18
  like? But that was when I kind of, I
• 25:20
  kind of turned off the message boards from then.
• 25:23
  Yeah, you listen, I'm all for feedback.
• 25:26
  I'm all for constructive criticism.
• 25:29
  And you're always going to say that, you know, listen, there's
• 25:31
  always going to be things that you say that don't come out the
• 25:33
  right way. Or maybe you're like, I could
• 25:34
  have said that better. I could have presented my, you
• 25:36
  know, my opinion better. And that's part of it.
• 25:38
  But sometimes people have also learned that sometimes people
• 25:42
  just are going to say things about you, that they're just,
• 25:45
  that is what it is. And there's nothing you can say
• 25:47
  or do to change their opinion. Their opinion is what it is.
• 25:50
  And you almost you're just better off just ignoring it.
• 25:53
  Exactly, There's a couple of sayings that I don't think we
• 25:56
  should say on the air about those things that but anyway, I
• 26:02
  think people probably are saying right now, I know what he's
• 26:04
  talking about right now. Hey, so Jordan, you're going to
• 26:07
  be busy in the offseason, man. You got more trials going on and
• 26:12
  and a lot of changes still coming from NASCAR.
• 26:15
  Yeah. I mean, listen, as of now and
• 26:17
  like I said at the beginning of the show is, you know, things
• 26:20
  can change in a hurry. But as of now, come December
• 26:22
  1st, NASCAR is in court versus 2311 and in front of
• 26:26
  Motorsports. And so it's going to be
• 26:29
  interesting to see all that unfolds.
• 26:31
  And that is expected to be a two week plus trial.
• 26:35
  And so we'll see. That's going to eat up most of
• 26:37
  the December. And then from there, you know,
• 26:39
  Christmas holiday and then boom, the calendar flips to January 1
• 26:43
  and then you know how that goes, John.
• 26:44
  Then we're kind of in the ramping up for Daytona.
• 26:46
  So yeah, very much offseason. There's a non racing season but
• 26:50
  there is very little offseason. Yeah, before we know it, we're
• 26:54
  going to be back racing again. Well, I'm going to be watching
• 26:56
  The Athletic and I recommend anybody else that's out there
• 26:59
  watch The Athletic. Keep your subscription up to
• 27:02
  that. And Jordan, thank you so much,
• 27:04
  man. Great talk, great conversation,
• 27:06
  man. I love having intelligent
• 27:08
  conversations here. That's what we're about.
• 27:09
  And I do appreciate your input. Anytime, John, we talked about
• 27:14
  doing this for a long time. I'm glad we could figure it out.
• 27:15
  And anytime you want to have me back, I'd love to be part of it.
• 27:18
  Hey, you got a deal, man. Jordan Bianchi, The Athletic.
• 27:21
  Thank you very much.