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TV BONUS: Andor - Season 1 - Episodes 7-12 · Left of the Projector

• 0:17
  Track 1: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
• 0:20
  Track 1: back again for another TV discussion from the left.
• 0:24
  Track 1: This week on the show, we are going to round out Season 1 of Andor,
• 0:29
  Track 1: the best Star Wars show that has ever been made.
• 0:33
  Track 1: And again, of course, I am joined by Ward and Bill.
• 0:37
  Track 1: Thank you for coming back again.
• 0:40
  Track 3: Happy to be here.
• 0:41
  Track 2: Happy to be here and good here this time.
• 0:43
  Track 1: Or last episode on this, we tried very hard and we were successful in not spoiling
• 0:49
  Track 1: the second half of Andor.
• 0:51
  Track 1: And so now that everyone is back, everyone watched the whole show.
• 0:54
  Track 1: Everyone watched the entire show in the.
• 0:57
  Track 2: In the, including you and audience. Yes.
• 0:59
  Track 1: Everyone watched the show. And just before recording this, I watched episode
• 1:03
  Track 1: 12 just to, you know, refresh my memory and have a fresh cry before we came on.
• 1:09
  Track 1: So I think maybe the first thing we want to do, since we already talked about the robbery,
• 1:17
  Track 1: is kick it off with talking about the six people who were part of the robbery,
• 1:23
  Track 1: and like briefly talking about them, because I know,
• 1:26
  Track 1: Ward, you were interested in that, but we thought it would be better to wait till after,
• 1:30
  Track 1: just because it potentially has some spoilers as we'll
• 1:32
  Track 1: find out given the uh vel who
• 1:35
  Track 1: is one of the main protagonists of that uh part of the of the show and we learn
• 1:42
  Track 1: is mon motha's sister dun dun dun so we already talked about andor a bunch we
• 1:47
  Track 1: already like we don't need to really dwell on him but what do you all think
• 1:50
  Track 1: of vel as the leader and then also this you know,
• 1:55
  Track 1: very, very wealthy person who has taken up the cause, you know,
• 2:01
  Track 1: in a very direct way, unlike her sister.
• 2:04
  Track 3: I mean, she's like bourgeois revolutionary is what we come to find out,
• 2:08
  Track 3: which I mean, can be redeeming and not at the same time, you know, because she has like,
• 2:15
  Track 3: I guess, lack of devotion issues at times in the second half. She gets distracted.
• 2:21
  Track 3: Yeah. century even calls her out you know saying like
• 2:24
  Track 3: oh i'm not a rich girl running away from her problems and so but at the same
• 2:29
  Track 3: time like first half she did a pretty good job leading the whole heist crew
• 2:33
  Track 3: and like keeping everyone's shit together and being strict when she needed to
• 2:36
  Track 3: be you know what i mean so like she's taken up the role pretty well but it's
• 2:42
  Track 3: like she still has distractions.
• 2:44
  Track 2: I'm not gonna shit on her like you know what
• 2:46
  Track 2: like nobody's perfect like not even revolutionaries like you
• 2:49
  Track 2: know like these are like you know what like that's actually
• 2:52
  Track 2: a lesson that needs to be like like that even the people that we
• 2:55
  Track 2: look at throughout history you know like as great revolutionary
• 2:58
  Track 2: leaders like they're not perfect people they have flaws they have personal lives
• 3:02
  Track 2: that it you know in in encroach on things and they have you know failings they're
• 3:07
  Track 2: not perfect people and i would say that you know she deserves a lot of credit
• 3:10
  Track 2: i mean most you know rich kids that go on to rebel become anarchists and they're useless.
• 3:16
  Track 2: And she, you know, she is, you know, a Marxist-Leninist for all intents and purposes.
• 3:22
  Track 2: So, you know, listen, I'm going to, you know, give her major props for that.
• 3:25
  Track 2: She could have gone the anarchist route and she didn't. So she deserves credit for that.
• 3:29
  Track 1: Way to alienate like 25% of my audience.
• 3:32
  Track 2: The opinions on anarchists expressed are mine and mine alone and also warped.
• 3:40
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 3:46
  Track 3: Let me just throw my hat in real quick like we're putting psa's.
• 3:51
  Track 1: But no but i see it's like your point like the
• 3:53
  Track 1: point i think is fair that you she still
• 3:57
  Track 1: did you know an exceptional job in what she's done even if you said she's like
• 4:02
  Track 1: been a little distracted and she's you know i mean the amount of like they're
• 4:06
  Track 1: on that planet for what six or seven months i mean maybe longer i don't i don't
• 4:09
  Track 1: remember the exact amount of time but a long time and that's still a very long time to, for again,
• 4:16
  Track 1: whether you're rich, whatever your background is to do all of that.
• 4:19
  Track 1: But as you said, like she is flawed, just like anyone is in any,
• 4:23
  Track 1: you know, revolutionary, the people who were part of the Russian revolution
• 4:27
  Track 1: or the Chinese revolution, they have Cuban revolution. They all have their,
• 4:32
  Track 1: they're not perfect people.
• 4:34
  Track 2: And that's something we need to remember. We need to keep in mind that revolutions are made by people.
• 4:40
  Track 2: Not saints, not paragons.
• 4:42
  Track 1: Or ideas in a book. Just because you wrote this in, your theory is not always
• 4:46
  Track 1: going to be perfectly executed in practice.
• 4:50
  Track 2: And that's something to remember in real life, which is really what this is about.
• 4:55
  Track 2: We're talking about a show, but we're talking about it in terms of analyzing
• 5:01
  Track 2: it and the perspective of partly in how we apply these,
• 5:06
  Track 2: or how we apply these kinds of things in our own lives and moving forward as
• 5:12
  Track 2: revolutionaries or organizers or activists or Marxist-Leninists,
• 5:15
  Track 2: you know, like, you know, and even,
• 5:17
  Track 2: I mean, I guess anarchists, I don't know if they actually apply things.
• 5:20
  Track 2: You know, like, we do take these, you know, we have to think about these lessons
• 5:24
  Track 2: and take them forward, especially in light of, you know, the current world we live in.
• 5:27
  Track 1: And I'll throw in a quick plug for Mao's On Practice, which is a very good guide
• 5:34
  Track 1: to understanding, you know, actually to put frameworks of his, you know,
• 5:40
  Track 1: theories into practice, you know, that's literally the title of it.
• 5:43
  Track 1: So I'll, I'll end my plug there. I don't get any residuals from Mao or from anyone.
• 5:49
  Track 1: You can just go to Marxist.org and read it for free. So anyway,
• 5:53
  Track 1: and you should, and you definitely should.
• 5:55
  Track 3: Absolutely.
• 5:56
  Track 1: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Track 3: And if you're there reading Mao, just pick up combat liberalism as well.
• 6:00
  Track 2: And you can do one's dialect material.
• 6:02
  Track 1: Yeah. We can, we can, there's, you can almost create, like if you did this,
• 6:05
  Track 1: did this show and like a legit like all right reading list time screw.
• 6:10
  Track 2: Screw reading last time we'll close with.
• 6:13
  Track 1: Well i was gonna say we're like yeah.
• 6:14
  Track 3: This whole podcast.
• 6:16
  Track 1: Was a pulling.
• 6:16
  Track 3: To just give you a marx's reading list.
• 6:18
  Track 1: Well i was about to say is like if you if you had a pod if you
• 6:21
  Track 1: made this podcast where you did it episode like an
• 6:24
  Track 1: episode of this show for an episode of and or for season
• 6:27
  Track 1: one season two you probably could very easily create
• 6:30
  Track 1: a like directed reading list as parts of the
• 6:33
  Track 1: episodes go on because you really do see and
• 6:36
  Track 1: I think maybe this is also we could talk about I know I said we
• 6:39
  Track 1: should talk about each of the people but we already talked about Andor like
• 6:42
  Track 1: his trajectory in the show from being someone who really doesn't want to be
• 6:47
  Track 1: part of anything more than just kind of his little stint in the very first episode
• 6:52
  Track 1: of stealing one little item to try and make some money he's not really doing
• 6:55
  Track 1: this for any kind of anyone other than himself really and maybe his mother to just survive.
• 7:00
  Track 1: And then to the end of the show where he is fully behind the cause and is willing to die for it.
• 7:07
  Track 1: And I think you could easily look at different theory in different books that
• 7:13
  Track 1: would take many of these historical figures on that same journey.
• 7:18
  Track 1: Let's talk about Cinta, because I briefly was saying to War before we started
• 7:23
  Track 1: recording that she is probably the most badass of the crew. I mean,
• 7:27
  Track 1: maybe you could say Andor is like the most knowledgeable or whatever it is.
• 7:31
  Track 1: Like she is ridiculously capable and is focused and just like...
• 7:38
  Track 1: There's someone on Ferex who's, you know, hunting people and from the intelligence
• 7:44
  Track 1: and she's hunting him behind that and just knifes her.
• 7:48
  Track 1: No, that was just kind of.
• 7:50
  Track 3: I mean, that wasn't even like her job. She was supposed she was there to keep
• 7:55
  Track 3: track of Andor, but, you know, she's good at what she does.
• 7:58
  Track 3: She was able to pick up. Oh, this dude's also spying on Andor's family.
• 8:02
  Track 3: And when given the opportunity, yeah, she fucking takes his life.
• 8:06
  Track 3: So sick. Yeah. no doesn't hesitate he's empire he's he's cia empire he's the.
• 8:12
  Track 2: Worst of the worst um great forward you
• 8:15
  Track 2: know kind of like the model of the professional revolutionary
• 8:18
  Track 2: and like the idea of like and also
• 8:21
  Track 2: being intelligent about the way you do things um moving
• 8:25
  Track 2: forward keeping with an organization reporting to you know
• 8:28
  Track 2: like making sure everything is like reported and you know you're not
• 8:31
  Track 2: being not yes she kills that man but
• 8:33
  Track 2: it's not in an adventurous sense this is
• 8:36
  Track 2: in service to the cause and done
• 8:39
  Track 2: intelligently and in a means that does not risk
• 8:42
  Track 2: herself or the organization she is very
• 8:46
  Track 2: much like if you read um
• 8:49
  Track 2: um lennon's biography wonderful certain
• 8:53
  Track 2: of them but like in one of
• 8:56
  Track 2: lennon's biographies it is discussed how
• 8:59
  Track 2: he develops the concept of the revolutionary professional revolutionary
• 9:02
  Track 2: and one of the main things about it is like and he says like
• 9:05
  Track 2: um prior to that establishment
• 9:09
  Track 2: of that idea um it was you know amongst the conspirati um the previous revolutionary
• 9:15
  Track 2: individuals including his brother um it was meant to be it was seen as like
• 9:20
  Track 2: brave to be like caught by the police and like do all this stuff where the professional
• 9:24
  Track 2: revolutionary was brave and intelligent to like do it and not get caught.
• 9:29
  Track 2: Do things that do not put yourself at risk of arrest and do not risk the organization's
• 9:35
  Track 2: structure and do not risk your comrades. That was what was brave.
• 9:40
  Track 2: That was what was admirable. Not the fact that like, oh, I got arrested and
• 9:44
  Track 2: I could deal with it. I served my time.
• 9:47
  Track 2: No, you never got caught.
• 9:50
  Track 2: And you did not expose people to risk, just like what she does.
• 9:54
  Track 2: Like, she does not expose things. She does it intelligently.
• 9:57
  Track 2: Like, she is disciplined.
• 9:59
  Track 2: She's definitely the most badass.
• 10:00
  Track 1: She becomes a bartender locally, like, fits in really well, like,
• 10:04
  Track 1: has a very, you know, I think this is, I don't know if this is ever mentioned,
• 10:07
  Track 1: but in, like, the wiki for her, it says that her family was killed by stormtroopers.
• 10:12
  Track 1: Did they mention that in the show? They do mention, they do say, okay.
• 10:15
  Track 1: That's must be where they got it from, because this is the only show she's ever
• 10:17
  Track 1: been on. And it's like, she has this, yeah. yeah.
• 10:20
  Track 3: They don't give us a terrible amount of back.
• 10:22
  Track 2: It's like really early on it's what um what's his name skein.
• 10:26
  Track 1: Oh yes you're right that or.
• 10:29
  Track 2: When um after she patches him up and i think skein like he's like don't get
• 10:36
  Track 2: sweet on her like she's you know whatever and then he says something about like
• 10:39
  Track 2: her why she's such like a hard ass and he says like oh yeah her whole family.
• 10:44
  Track 1: Yeah one of the things one of the great lines that she has too is
• 10:47
  Track 1: when you're talking about the part where they you know like don't stop your
• 10:50
  Track 1: you know be like a rich girl or whatever she says you
• 10:53
  Track 1: know haven't we been long uh long apart long enough that's
• 10:56
  Track 1: what vel sister and she's like it's not about us and then
• 10:59
  Track 1: vel says after what we've been through and then she says you think
• 11:02
  Track 1: the empire stops to catch his breath it's a fight to the death vel
• 11:05
  Track 1: and like that's just that's that just sums it up
• 11:08
  Track 1: pretty much uh and since you mentioned skein we could
• 11:10
  Track 1: briefly talk about him like i don't think there's a ton as you
• 11:13
  Track 1: said in the last episode like the actor is great who plays him
• 11:16
  Track 1: it's um he's the guy that's all he's also people probably
• 11:19
  Track 1: know him from the bear i'm blanking
• 11:22
  Track 1: on his name iban moss barkrock i think
• 11:25
  Track 1: that's how you pronounce his last name he is like very mysterious
• 11:28
  Track 1: and you don't really get a ton of background and then we learn later that
• 11:31
  Track 1: pretty much everything he said has been a lie like he said he lost his brother
• 11:34
  Track 1: and then like it's all bullshit he you know really is planning to just take
• 11:38
  Track 1: the money after he escapes to that sort of jumping off planet and then andor
• 11:43
  Track 1: just fucking shoots him because he's a bitch wow.
• 11:51
  Track 3: I mean that's a good.
• 11:53
  Track 1: It's funny like vel doesn't believe that he had done it for that reason you
• 11:56
  Track 1: need more of a reason at this point they still don't really trust andor like
• 12:01
  Track 1: really none of them do which.
• 12:02
  Track 3: Is funny because like.
• 12:04
  Track 1: Yeah luthan.
• 12:05
  Track 3: Had doubts about skiing yeah we find that out yeah but Vel was like nah skiing's.
• 12:12
  Track 1: Good shit I mean he was capable like to do what to do the robbery right like that he succeeds.
• 12:18
  Track 2: Yeah but I mean.
• 12:19
  Track 1: Not because of him right like it wasn't like he was the the cog in the machine
• 12:24
  Track 1: he was just like a capable body that was you know,
• 12:28
  Track 1: Smart enough, I guess. But he was doing it for money, which I guess Andor was too, initially.
• 12:33
  Track 3: Andor was too, so I mean.
• 12:35
  Track 2: It helped pull the heist off. There is a distinct difference between Skeen and
• 12:39
  Track 2: Andor in that, yes, they were both in it for the money.
• 12:44
  Track 2: But Andor had that undercurrent of ideology and principle, which Skeen lacked completely.
• 12:54
  Track 2: It's a completely you know like and or had that you know almost like repressed
• 12:59
  Track 2: you know like it had been beaten out of him you know he's he's given up whereas
• 13:02
  Track 2: it seems like scheme you know he probably never had it like he's always been
• 13:06
  Track 2: just like you know kind of like getting by to get by do what he can you know and.
• 13:10
  Track 1: Then there's nemec who we did talk briefly about in the last episode where who's
• 13:15
  Track 1: like the youngest of them and he is the one who writes his own little manifesto
• 13:19
  Track 1: And then it's his dying wish, essentially,
• 13:22
  Track 1: to make Andor take his manifesto and, you know,
• 13:26
  Track 1: disseminate it, learn about it, become class conscious or whatever.
• 13:31
  Track 1: And it's like, it's such a... The way he dies is so sad to, like, his...
• 13:35
  Track 1: It's really such a brutal way to die.
• 13:37
  Track 3: Oh, yeah, no, Nemig was great, man.
• 13:41
  Track 3: Like, he should have been, like, riding the Star Wars version of Capital,
• 13:44
  Track 3: but instead, like, his life comes to an end, being crushed by Capital.
• 13:49
  Track 1: Yeah, fuck, damn, that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah, and it's only because of him that
• 13:55
  Track 1: they're able to escape the planet to begin with, like, because of his little,
• 13:59
  Track 1: like, analog machine that is better than the stupid digital shit.
• 14:03
  Track 1: And that actually reminds me, I don't know if you've seen this and I didn't,
• 14:06
  Track 1: was it, maybe Bill, you posted something like this.
• 14:09
  Track 1: Someone was talking online about the idea that Luddites are like people who
• 14:14
  Track 1: hate technology and they're mad about it.
• 14:17
  Track 2: I posted quite a bit of it.
• 14:18
  Track 1: And it's interesting because I think the idea of them is sort of misguided and
• 14:23
  Track 1: it's not so much that they like hate technology.
• 14:26
  Track 1: It's that technology is used to prevent them from receiving the full value of
• 14:31
  Track 1: their labor. And I think Nemec understood that in a way that was not directly stated in it.
• 14:38
  Track 1: I mean, he was very clearly talking about the old technology and how it's good.
• 14:41
  Track 1: But he would have been a Luddite in this, probably.
• 14:45
  Track 2: We come back to that in episode 12 with Andor's father.
• 14:50
  Track 2: And Andor's father is cleaning, he's showing Cass how to clean those materials.
• 14:55
  Track 2: And he says, it takes us, you know, however long, like 10 seconds,
• 15:00
  Track 2: 12 seconds, dip it in here, pull it out. It's just like new.
• 15:04
  Track 2: They would rather us, he's like, there are hundreds of these,
• 15:09
  Track 2: whatever, thousands of sitting places.
• 15:11
  Track 2: They would rather us buy new ones than fix the old ones and give us access to
• 15:17
  Track 2: material that we can repair and use again.
• 15:20
  Track 2: They are controlling them through, you know, the inability, you know,
• 15:24
  Track 2: like. Like, that is a major issue.
• 15:27
  Track 2: Like, just in, literally earlier today, I was having this conversation with
• 15:32
  Track 2: multiple people about, like, right to repair.
• 15:34
  Track 2: The way vehicles in this country are becoming...
• 15:39
  Track 2: Not long ago, I said this to my wife, how like, I am dreading the day when you
• 15:45
  Track 2: cannot buy a used car that you can fix.
• 15:49
  Track 2: That there will come a time when you need, everything is so computerized,
• 15:55
  Track 2: so specific, so specular, you cannot fix the vehicle.
• 16:00
  Track 2: And it becomes impossible to maintain.
• 16:03
  Track 2: The the the introduction of touch screens is a just a deliberate tactic to reduce.
• 16:12
  Track 2: Cost of labor reduce what is spent on labor building those vehicles but also
• 16:18
  Track 2: reduce the ability of individuals to fix their own shit.
• 16:22
  Track 1: They'll make it to the point you know how like when your maintenance light comes
• 16:25
  Track 1: on in a car and you theoretically you can like run diagnosis yourself at some
• 16:29
  Track 1: point they're going to make it so you can't do that like your shit will just
• 16:32
  Track 1: beep until you bring it to the fucking, you know, Tesla death factory.
• 16:35
  Track 1: And then they'll be like.
• 16:36
  Track 2: Well, John Deere has done. John Deere has made it almost basically impossible
• 16:42
  Track 2: for farmers to maintain their equipment.
• 16:45
  Track 2: And it is basically, we have introduced, capital has introduced basically the
• 16:51
  Track 2: subscription methodology of technology into hardware, into vehicles.
• 16:57
  Track 2: And that is what the father's talking about and
• 17:00
  Track 2: that is a major major thing in our world
• 17:03
  Track 2: um and it's a major problem
• 17:06
  Track 2: uh and yeah part of the
• 17:09
  Track 2: like that is the issue of like you know luddites the
• 17:13
  Track 2: lights were not anti-technology i i can
• 17:16
  Track 2: talk about the lot of a lot uh the luddites were not
• 17:18
  Track 2: anti-technology um the luddites very clearly stated they be very clear that
• 17:25
  Track 2: what their issue was was that they were being that capitalists were controlling
• 17:32
  Track 2: the means of production and making it impossible for them to.
• 17:38
  Track 2: Basically work for a living they were through the
• 17:41
  Track 2: control of means of production they were making
• 17:44
  Track 2: it impossible for weavers and
• 17:48
  Track 2: you know other you know artisans but primarily it started weavers to produce
• 17:54
  Track 2: product well-made product that they could support their families on and they
• 17:59
  Track 2: were pushing them out of business and requiring them to work in factories for
• 18:03
  Track 2: as little money as possible.
• 18:05
  Track 2: They did not have a problem with technology. They had a problem with who controlled technology.
• 18:10
  Track 2: That is the issue. Technology is not bad.
• 18:13
  Track 1: And there's also no way there's also points in the early 1800s when they had
• 18:18
  Track 1: to bring in British troops to prevent them from having these disagreements. I say disagreements.
• 18:25
  Track 2: During the Luddite rebellions was during an active war with France And the British,
• 18:33
  Track 2: the British crown spent more money and manpower putting down the Luddite rebellion
• 18:40
  Track 2: than they did across the channel in France in an active war with France.
• 18:46
  Track 2: They spent more capital, both money and soldiers putting down the Luddites than
• 18:53
  Track 2: they were with their active war with France.
• 18:56
  Track 2: That's how, how much of a threat they were.
• 18:58
  Track 1: The future episode on luddites will be uh commencing on uh maybe not in this podcast but.
• 19:05
  Track 3: I mean i think i think it's also beautiful in like another way like more contemporary
• 19:09
  Track 3: sense granted it wasn't predicting this but i mean like the israeli pager attacks
• 19:15
  Track 3: and showing how prevalent things are being reliant on western technology and
• 19:19
  Track 3: also just the fact that like everything in western technology is known to fucking spy on.
• 19:24
  Track 1: You wait wait i heard that my.
• 19:25
  Track 3: Refrigerator is.
• 19:26
  Track 1: Spying on me from china is that not true i wish.
• 19:29
  Track 3: I mean china deserves a little walking around data give it to them oh yeah dude
• 19:37
  Track 3: i downloaded red note don't even use it like i just want to them to have some
• 19:41
  Track 3: walking around data they deserve it they're doing good stuff.
• 19:43
  Track 2: You know iphone mostly so that they could they could get some information because
• 19:47
  Track 2: they need it to to take this down honestly i.
• 19:51
  Track 1: Think that they're good without our data but may as well I'll just slip it to him.
• 19:55
  Track 2: I'm trying to help. I'm trying to do my part for the cause.
• 19:57
  Track 1: Perfect.
• 19:58
  Track 3: Oh, yeah. No, I'm trying to help out. Like, absolutely. I grabbed Deep Seek,
• 20:02
  Track 3: too. Like, dude, I'm trying to help him out as much as I can.
• 20:05
  Track 1: Since we already kind of talked about this, the very beginning of Episode 7
• 20:10
  Track 1: and I guess into kind of 8 is, I think it's called The Announcement,
• 20:14
  Track 1: which kind of refers to the fact that once this...
• 20:18
  Track 1: This robbery takes place, it's now set all of the empire into like this fear.
• 20:24
  Track 1: And so they start charging higher taxes on things. They have this basically
• 20:29
  Track 1: a Patriot Act, all these different things.
• 20:31
  Track 1: But what it does seem like Mon Moth is like really worried about this.
• 20:35
  Track 1: But on the other hand, Luthan and the, you know, the more revolutionaries realize
• 20:40
  Track 1: this is actually good for them because when they fear for things, then they overreact.
• 20:46
  Track 1: And this actually gives them opportunity and so
• 20:49
  Track 1: i think it's like it was a really interesting way
• 20:52
  Track 1: to weave in very clearly the patriot
• 20:55
  Track 1: act you know overreach of of uh
• 20:58
  Track 1: of spying and then also like the most brutal torture
• 21:01
  Track 1: method that you can possibly fathom on
• 21:05
  Track 1: uh bix in you know on ferrex
• 21:08
  Track 1: to this sound of a indigenous species
• 21:11
  Track 1: that they had just like genocided and they're using their like children's
• 21:14
  Track 1: voices to cause you to just freak out is
• 21:17
  Track 1: just fucking evil like everything is
• 21:21
  Track 1: evil about them but it's like each time you're like you know it's like the same
• 21:26
  Track 1: way when the you know the the jfk files were uh you know released like more
• 21:30
  Track 1: evils that we already knew about like are then just confirmed like this show
• 21:34
  Track 1: just kind of confirms the additional evils of the things that the empire does america.
• 21:40
  Track 2: Yeah it's layers of just evil and the the overreach i think it's a really like
• 21:49
  Track 2: but you know like it's a great point because that is basically taken straight from that.
• 21:53
  Track 1: Yep the.
• 21:54
  Track 2: Idea like when your enemy reacts to you that's when they make mistakes and when
• 22:00
  Track 2: they over you know that shows weakness and fear you know like again returning
• 22:06
  Track 2: to mal i think he's pulling right from that.
• 22:09
  Track 1: I was trying to find the quote like the the thing
• 22:11
  Track 1: you were talking about i couldn't find the exact quote so but yeah
• 22:14
  Track 1: it's uh the reading list for this episode
• 22:17
  Track 1: is just to like buy the full collection of mao we try to find the same one yeah
• 22:21
  Track 1: the episode is paused while we do it's funny when you when i was searching for
• 22:26
  Track 1: it it like takes you to some like stupid quote site and it has like all these
• 22:31
  Track 1: like evil like not even real quotes from him it's really funny what.
• 22:36
  Track 2: I i hate that shit this is what it came up on mine okay at first the heritage,
• 22:43
  Track 2: first result on on search then an article on now specific brand of political
• 22:52
  Track 2: violence yeah not not great.
• 22:55
  Track 1: No oh.
• 22:56
  Track 2: I'm sorry the heritage foundation the legacy of mao zedong is mass murder.
• 23:00
  Track 1: I'll cut that out because we don't want anyone trying to use that quote out
• 23:03
  Track 1: of context like they use his,
• 23:06
  Track 1: no but like to like the point of that too
• 23:09
  Track 1: is and i think what's also part of that overreach is
• 23:13
  Track 1: then we see like it's like what's really amazing about
• 23:16
  Track 1: this show is some it's very they're very good
• 23:19
  Track 1: at like setting the stage with one thing and have it like filter
• 23:22
  Track 1: down to other individual things that
• 23:25
  Track 1: happen so the result of andor and them committing
• 23:28
  Track 1: this bank robbery is they create these new prison sentences
• 23:31
  Track 1: essentially just sending you off to guantanamo bay and
• 23:34
  Track 1: being like throw away the key can't find you know can't find
• 23:37
  Track 1: it you're just there they basically pin a fake crime
• 23:40
  Track 1: on him just because they can and he
• 23:43
  Track 1: then gets sent to like an evil prison which we then have to talk about a lot
• 23:47
  Track 1: and it becomes this new prison industrial complex part of the show and it's
• 23:54
  Track 1: very much specifically related to american industrial prison industrial complex what is it, Narcona 5,
• 24:01
  Track 1: this prison planet that just is brutal.
• 24:05
  Track 2: Considering recent news,
• 24:09
  Track 2: yeah, when this came out, you immediately referred, you immediately compared to Guantanamo Bay.
• 24:16
  Track 2: But what we know about Guantanamo Bay does not even Guantanamo Bay is a terrible place.
• 24:22
  Track 2: No ifs, ands, or buts about it. There's no debating that.
• 24:27
  Track 2: There's no question about it. Guantanamo Bay is a fucking, it's a black site
• 24:31
  Track 2: crime. You know, like it is a crime against Cuba.
• 24:34
  Track 2: It's a crime against people. Like it's a crime against humanity.
• 24:36
  Track 2: Like, you know, I'm not denying it either.
• 24:38
  Track 2: What we have recently seen with the deep, with the disappearance of, uh,
• 24:44
  Track 2: immigrants within the United States to that, the prison in El Salvador,
• 24:47
  Track 2: that is far more is this show I was prescient in what it lays out because that
• 24:56
  Track 2: prison is deliberately intended as a work camp.
• 25:00
  Track 2: It is deliberately intended as a means of, you know, like Guantanamo Bay,
• 25:05
  Track 2: terrible, fucking horrible crime against humanity.
• 25:08
  Track 2: That place in El Salvador, that is designed to disappear people,
• 25:13
  Track 2: like straight up designed to disappear people and fund and build military equipment.
• 25:20
  Track 2: Like that's its fucking purpose.
• 25:22
  Track 1: For the death star, literally.
• 25:23
  Track 2: Like but like that is like yeah like
• 25:26
  Track 2: they they he somehow wrote about a thing you know when was how many years ago
• 25:33
  Track 2: three years ago 2022 three years ago and then what two weeks ago we learned
• 25:39
  Track 2: about a place that's like almost like beat for beat same thing like that's what
• 25:43
  Track 2: that place is that's what it is no.
• 25:46
  Track 1: No you're you're 100 correct it's a far better you know example and i think
• 25:50
  Track 1: Like just, well, and then I'll let war jump in.
• 25:52
  Track 1: One thing I wanted to mention, because you mentioned that it's like a labor
• 25:55
  Track 1: camp and it's this terrible place, is people listening to this podcast probably
• 25:59
  Track 1: know this, but they may not know specifically what the, there is a organization
• 26:03
  Track 1: that's owned by the government called Unicor,
• 26:06
  Track 1: that essentially they have a revenue of $500 million per year based on the slave
• 26:12
  Track 1: labor of prisoners in the United States who build like flak jackets and not
• 26:18
  Track 1: for like police in America.
• 26:19
  Track 1: Most of it is sold then abroad to the people in other countries that are brutalizing,
• 26:25
  Track 1: you know, indigenous people or citizens there or who God knows what.
• 26:29
  Track 1: Like, it's hard to even track where it goes.
• 26:31
  Track 1: But there is this prison labor system in the United States of making things like the Death Star.
• 26:38
  Track 1: The Death Star is just America. It's just the West. It's just NATO, whatever.
• 26:41
  Track 1: Just whatever you want to pin it to. And it's the same thing.
• 26:45
  Track 1: I mean, this show is the best depiction of modern capitalism that you will find.
• 26:53
  Track 1: I don't need to finish that sentence. It's over.
• 26:55
  Track 2: I don't want to miss this opportunity to make sure that everyone knows who signed Unicor into existence.
• 27:02
  Track 1: Oh, I know. I know. I know the answer.
• 27:06
  Track 2: Progressives, favorite president. Yeah.
• 27:09
  Track 2: Architect of New Deal, FDR.
• 27:14
  Track 1: Yep.
• 27:14
  Track 2: That is correct. FDR is the man behind.
• 27:18
  Track 1: The curtain.
• 27:19
  Track 2: Federal slavery program.
• 27:21
  Track 1: People probably don't know that. People don't even know that this,
• 27:23
  Track 1: people know that they make shit at prisons, but they don't realize how it's
• 27:26
  Track 1: like this, a literal business.
• 27:28
  Track 1: They make, they make a net income of 61 million that they then use to buy more
• 27:34
  Track 1: private prison contracts to just repeat the process.
• 27:37
  Track 3: And then, and like lobby for more private prisons.
• 27:40
  Track 1: They lobby themselves cash.
• 27:42
  Track 3: For and they do cash for kids scandals and things like that you know.
• 27:45
  Track 1: Yeah the federal bureau of prisons is is ice under no ice isn't under them cbb
• 27:51
  Track 1: ice is uh homeland security save.
• 27:55
  Track 3: A cpp that's all dhs.
• 27:56
  Track 1: I thought so only.
• 27:58
  Track 3: Been around since 9-11.
• 27:59
  Track 1: I mean 9-11 was the andors uh prison you know robbery right like it's has like
• 28:07
  Track 1: a very similar i don't want to say like they were the same because one is robbing
• 28:10
  Track 1: money and one was you know a different action but they kind of both led to the same react impact.
• 28:17
  Track 2: Yeah yeah they're they're both the cattle they're.
• 28:20
  Track 1: Catalyst yeah that's a good way to put it the to talk about the prison so what
• 28:26
  Track 1: you kind of have in i guess it's maybe episode eight through,
• 28:31
  Track 1: 10 when you know they're simultaneously having lots of bits in the prison they're
• 28:36
  Track 1: slowly realizing how they're never going to get out of this prison.
• 28:40
  Track 1: They, you know, the, they essentially will tell you you're getting out and then
• 28:43
  Track 1: you just get put into a different prison for doing the same thing.
• 28:47
  Track 1: And while the simultaneous is happening, you have, you learn kind of more about
• 28:51
  Track 1: Mon Motha and, you know, the, her money troubles. And so they're kind of like
• 28:57
  Track 1: interesting simultaneous plots.
• 29:00
  Track 1: Obviously the prison is way more fucked up and way more interesting because
• 29:04
  Track 1: the prison break is one of the most,
• 29:06
  Track 1: Badass episodes of television ever?
• 29:10
  Track 2: I think actually we need to...
• 29:11
  Track 1: Did I skip something?
• 29:13
  Track 2: ...relight back to characters. Because I do think that there's a very important
• 29:17
  Track 2: character to discuss. I think Barconi...
• 29:20
  Track 1: I know. That was my mistake. I went past him and I appreciate the call.
• 29:24
  Track 3: Yeah, I was going to say if we were going to come back. I like how we started
• 29:27
  Track 3: doing the Heist crew thing and then we started spiraling off.
• 29:31
  Track 3: I love me a good tangent. Don't get me wrong. I don't want us to spiral,
• 29:34
  Track 3: but we had to come back at some point so we can spiral like.
• 29:37
  Track 2: I even brought up the wadites and that was like i know in front of me like that
• 29:43
  Track 2: was too and you know what i restrained myself right so.
• 29:48
  Track 1: Talking about barcona he's like we we find out that he he's one of the the men
• 29:53
  Track 1: on the on aldani and he's a former stormtrooper,
• 29:57
  Track 1: and yeah it we don't really get much information about him at all do we like he's very limited in it.
• 30:03
  Track 2: He at he defected well i mean he's still technically in there but what brought
• 30:10
  Track 2: him to revolution was he fell in love with uh a woman from aldani and that was gordon.
• 30:17
  Track 3: That was Gorn.
• 30:18
  Track 2: No, that was Barcona.
• 30:20
  Track 3: Barcona was the dude that was in the camp the whole time. Terraman Barcona?
• 30:24
  Track 2: The Stormtrooper.
• 30:26
  Track 3: Former Stormtrooper versus, yeah, Gorn is the active lieutenant still in the- Okay.
• 30:31
  Track 2: Gorn.
• 30:32
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 30:32
  Track 2: This is Evan's fault. His character breakdown is incorrect.
• 30:35
  Track 1: Wait, is it?
• 30:37
  Track 2: Okay, mine is correct. You're right, former. I'm sorry. He's not- Gorn isn't even on there.
• 30:42
  Track 1: I know. Well, Gorn technically isn't one of the robbers, though,
• 30:46
  Track 1: right? he's part of all right sorry.
• 30:48
  Track 3: What without well well but he doesn't actually actively kill like he's.
• 30:56
  Track 1: Not all right.
• 30:56
  Track 3: Um he doesn't kill anybody he actively works the commandant today which is way
• 31:03
  Track 3: cooler than any of the heist members killing any of the way more based he worked camp.
• 31:13
  Track 1: I'm not saying he wasn't an integral role.
• 31:16
  Track 1: I was just saying when I think of the crew that is doing the heist,
• 31:20
  Track 1: he is not one of the six people of the recruited crew.
• 31:24
  Track 1: I mean, he's recruited, but in a different way. Alright, I'm just taking myself deeper here.
• 31:29
  Track 2: Gorn, I'm sorry. So Gorn, Marcona and Gorn serve similar narrative purposes
• 31:35
  Track 2: in terms of what we need to talk about in terms of former Stormtroopers or active
• 31:39
  Track 2: Stormtroopers coming over to the revolutionary side. That is still important.
• 31:43
  Track 2: We don't need to know, honestly, like it's hard to, you know,
• 31:47
  Track 2: like I don't want to dismiss his backstory, but frankly, it's just not that important.
• 31:52
  Track 2: The important thing is from our perspective, what's important to talk about
• 31:56
  Track 2: is the importance of, and man, I've just used the word important so many times,
• 32:02
  Track 2: is the, throughout history, the contributions and the overwhelming contributions,
• 32:09
  Track 2: sorry, I gotta say it, importance of military personnel coming over to the revolutionary
• 32:15
  Track 2: side against bourgeois, you know,
• 32:18
  Track 2: um, or capitalist, you know, oppression that was integral and has always been
• 32:23
  Track 2: integral in revolutionary practice throughout history.
• 32:26
  Track 2: That is something that we cannot ignore and must be discussed.
• 32:30
  Track 2: And the fact that he puts not one, but two characters in this.
• 32:36
  Track 2: I don't know shit about Gilroy. I don't know anything about the man.
• 32:39
  Track 2: I have to assume he has studied revolutionary history because the characters
• 32:45
  Track 2: he has outlined and the way they behave is so conscious of revolutionary history.
• 32:51
  Track 1: Well, he's clearly read Stalin and Lenin because he admitted that they're based
• 32:57
  Track 1: on those people. I think he is.
• 32:59
  Track 1: And the fact that you can't find much about it other than that article is probably intentional.
• 33:03
  Track 1: He doesn't likely talk about these things in public he doesn't probably
• 33:06
  Track 1: get showrunner jobs for disney tell
• 33:09
  Track 1: saying that he's like read the red book you know so you know
• 33:13
  Track 1: maybe in maybe on his deathbed and his uh his uh biography will come out that
• 33:17
  Track 1: he uh you know is a marxist leninist but yeah no you're but like to say to all
• 33:22
  Track 1: that is like is completely true and it's he he as you said like he is doing the most um,
• 33:30
  Track 1: direct he's the only one directly interacting with
• 33:34
  Track 1: other people in the empire convincing them like
• 33:37
  Track 1: and is very convincing at doing all of his you
• 33:40
  Track 1: know bringing in the crew and he is you know uh getting them to you know because
• 33:45
  Track 1: they were all gonna stay along to paint or whatever and he like they could have
• 33:49
  Track 1: been like yeah we'll paint now or what it's like paint the the storeroom or
• 33:53
  Track 1: something and the scaffolding right it's like there's all these things like he yeah.
• 33:57
  Track 3: Which like such a military thing yeah paint scaffolding guys.
• 34:01
  Track 1: Right you're.
• 34:04
  Track 3: Already fucked staying in this like remote like location that nobody wants to
• 34:09
  Track 3: be stationed in and um yeah if you don't do fucking if you don't paint the fucking.
• 34:15
  Track 1: Scaffolding it's.
• 34:16
  Track 2: Your ass because somebody important is coming.
• 34:20
  Track 1: And they're gonna like see a spot on it right like oh look at that spot on the
• 34:24
  Track 1: scaffolding fuck you're fired.
• 34:25
  Track 3: Yeah i love that scene where like he convinces them to like give them,
• 34:30
  Track 3: to convince him.
• 34:31
  Track 1: To get the night off.
• 34:32
  Track 3: Because it works in like both ways where it's like he's
• 34:35
  Track 3: doing it like the so the smartest way possible
• 34:38
  Track 3: but also it can make you think like if you're like and or is like why would
• 34:44
  Track 3: he be helping us and it's like it gives you that moment where it's like whoa
• 34:49
  Track 3: he's not just immediately giving him the day off wait maybe he is oh no no you
• 34:53
  Track 3: dig it okay like i like that that there was like a like a moment there if you
• 34:57
  Track 3: really wanted to analyze.
• 34:58
  Track 1: Because you could go back like if everything had gone completely as
• 35:01
  Track 1: planned and like he wasn't actually you know found
• 35:04
  Track 1: out to be a traitor he could have just been like well i didn't know
• 35:07
  Track 1: it like you know well you know everything you did
• 35:10
  Track 1: and acted was actually the way you would have acted as like a
• 35:13
  Track 1: leader of the of a battalion or whatever that's brilliant brilliant screenwriting
• 35:17
  Track 1: brilliant acting too like i don't think we ever really even talked about the
• 35:21
  Track 1: acting and for the most part in most of this it's all very very good like some
• 35:26
  Track 1: of it's like a little cheesy here and there but like it's star wars so i'll give them a little pass.
• 35:30
  Track 3: They can have a few moments it's star wars it's disney but like especially for
• 35:35
  Track 3: the rest of the content that they're putting out in star and or like yeah it's allowed.
• 35:39
  Track 1: So another thing that i definitely wanted to talk
• 35:42
  Track 1: about i think we were talking about it maybe like privately before a
• 35:45
  Track 1: couple days ago or something is or i don't exactly where it came up
• 35:48
  Track 1: but one of the the things you find the characters
• 35:51
  Track 1: you get in this is the uh forrest
• 35:54
  Track 1: whitaker's character who comes up later in rogue one
• 35:58
  Track 1: and you know is an important piece there his
• 36:00
  Track 1: name is saw guerrera like one of a different faction i guess you could say of
• 36:04
  Track 1: militant insurgents i think it's the partisans i think is a group he's part
• 36:08
  Track 1: of is he constantly is meeting with uh with luthan and at some point they discover
• 36:14
  Track 1: that there is information that has been passed along to intelligence,
• 36:18
  Track 1: that there is going to be a,
• 36:21
  Track 1: ambush of one of their raids or their runs. And they make a conscious decision
• 36:26
  Track 1: collectively that it is acceptable to have 40 or 50 people plus a leader die
• 36:33
  Track 1: to prevent them from getting wind of the fact that there is some kind of mole,
• 36:39
  Track 1: which there is in the intelligence unit.
• 36:41
  Track 1: And that is something that is shocking to me that will be put into a television
• 36:48
  Track 1: show for mainstream MTV that it's acceptable to kill 50 people.
• 36:53
  Track 3: I mean I thought I thought it was great I mean that's a hell of a trolley problem
• 36:58
  Track 3: ain't it is do you get rid of the 50 I mean granted saw probably wasn't like
• 37:06
  Track 3: too terribly hurt at the end of the day since like everybody's lost but him,
• 37:11
  Track 3: um but like yeah no you get that trolley problem with 50 plus Krieger or,
• 37:19
  Track 3: an internal ISB mole that has taken years and years to cultivate to get to this level?
• 37:26
  Track 3: Like, which one is more valuable to the revolutionary cause?
• 37:29
  Track 3: Because you can't have both after this, moving forward. We have to make a choice.
• 37:35
  Track 1: Yeah, that's like, that's a, like, I think of shows that are more like, uh,
• 37:42
  Track 1: post 9-11 America shit, like 24 and those kind of shows,
• 37:48
  Track 1: like, no one would ever even, they would never even give up a single person
• 37:53
  Track 1: to, like, stop a terrorist attack, let alone 50 Americans to, you know.
• 37:59
  Track 3: We do not negotiate with terrorists.
• 38:01
  Track 1: Well yeah and you know the
• 38:04
  Track 1: again also going back to the idea of just willingness to just torture people
• 38:09
  Track 1: but they would never do that shit never that the when is that ever seen a movie
• 38:14
  Track 1: or like a pro-america show where like they're just sacrificed a bunch of people
• 38:17
  Track 1: i mean i guess you could argue that the military sacrifices many of their soldiers
• 38:22
  Track 1: for these kinds of things,
• 38:24
  Track 1: but it's never the same type of situation of a general isn't going to sacrifice
• 38:30
  Track 1: themselves for the cause.
• 38:31
  Track 2: So, I don't know. I don't recall them ever saying in Rogue One what Saw's faction
• 38:37
  Track 2: is called. I don't think they do.
• 38:40
  Track 1: I was just going by the Wikipedia where it says it's part of the Partisans, but...
• 38:44
  Track 2: Well, in Andor, that is...
• 38:46
  Track 3: He's Partisan.
• 38:47
  Track 1: Oh, I see. Later they don't share that.
• 38:50
  Track 2: I don't know. Well, my point is, is that So like the partisans, um,
• 38:55
  Track 2: is a, that is a very, it's a anti-fascist anthem written by,
• 39:06
  Track 2: uh, during World War II against, or right after World War II,
• 39:11
  Track 2: I'm sorry, during World War II, um,
• 39:14
  Track 2: about the French resistance, uh, against the Nazi occupation of France.
• 39:19
  Track 2: It is a specific...
• 39:23
  Track 2: I, I find it difficult to believe that he wasn't making a very specific reference to that being,
• 39:33
  Track 2: you know, like calling that the partisans and like, it is very explicitly, you know,
• 39:40
  Track 2: a socialist anti-fascist song.
• 39:42
  Track 1: Yeah no i mean that's um and that comes up big in it's not just um what did
• 39:48
  Track 1: they call that group there was also groups like that during world war ii on
• 39:52
  Track 1: the like the soviet side that were fighting with the soviets but weren't were
• 39:56
  Track 1: they also called partisans or is there do they have a different name you know
• 39:59
  Track 1: which group i'm talking about it comes up in the movie i think they're.
• 40:02
  Track 3: A partisan yeah they're.
• 40:03
  Track 1: Okay so i thought yeah.
• 40:05
  Track 2: Those are partisans also through that through the valleys and over hills which
• 40:09
  Track 2: is a soviet song which is also known as the pop the part.
• 40:13
  Track 1: Okay there you go was.
• 40:14
  Track 2: A red the russian civil war.
• 40:16
  Track 1: Okay so that you're right that does feel very intentional
• 40:20
  Track 1: especially as you're we now like keep bringing up these little
• 40:23
  Track 1: bits and character aspects and you
• 40:26
  Track 1: know backstories that are very seem too
• 40:29
  Track 1: in too intentional to be accidental and
• 40:33
  Track 1: this also brings me up to a point which I think is very relevant to
• 40:37
  Track 1: modern times as this show is and especially given the you know resistance from
• 40:43
  Track 1: the Palestinians is I think I don't know if it's in this but it's in Rogue One
• 40:47
  Track 1: that Saw Gerrera says I am not a terrorist I'm a patriot and resistance is not terrorism right which.
• 40:54
  Track 2: Is such a point again it was written three years ago not that the,
• 40:59
  Track 2: you know, the Israeli occupation of Palestine is not, not new by any.
• 41:05
  Track 3: It's not new, not new, but for the.
• 41:09
  Track 2: There was a resurgent before our current, before October 7th,
• 41:15
  Track 2: there was a previous instance, you know, in which things had kind of like, uh, gotten hot again.
• 41:21
  Track 2: Um, you know, that statement comes through very clearly right now. Um,
• 41:28
  Track 2: And I find it, you know, like the Saul Guerrero character is really,
• 41:32
  Track 2: but also his, it's such an important, like, I think he's a more important character,
• 41:36
  Track 2: but his like ideology and his thought process and the way he's presented is
• 41:39
  Track 2: more important than it even seems at first, given his like lack of screens.
• 41:44
  Track 2: Especially when you look deeper at like some of the meanings that you could
• 41:47
  Track 2: attribute to things like the part is.
• 41:48
  Track 1: Well, he's in, if you watch some of the other shows, like some of the animated
• 41:52
  Track 1: shows, and there's a lot, he's in those a lot more, and they give,
• 41:56
  Track 1: there's, if you go to, like, the wiki page for him on, like,
• 41:59
  Track 1: the Star Wars site, there is, it's actually massive how much there is about his.
• 42:03
  Track 2: I'm predicting none of that exists for the purposes of analyzing from a socialist perspective.
• 42:07
  Track 1: That's fair. And honestly, it only, it actually only helps your cause,
• 42:12
  Track 1: a lot of the information here.
• 42:13
  Track 2: The Soviet partisan song literally says, first verse, the divisions march forward
• 42:20
  Track 2: to capture Primori in battle, the stronghold of the white army.
• 42:25
  Track 2: Like they were working, you know, like there's the divisions are the white and
• 42:30
  Track 2: the reds, you know, and all that.
• 42:32
  Track 2: I think it's very relevant.
• 42:34
  Track 1: Wait, what was the what was the like the location to say Primori?
• 42:39
  Track 2: Primori.
• 42:39
  Track 1: Isn't the name of the security force in this company called Primor yes.
• 42:45
  Track 3: It is Primor.
• 42:47
  Track 1: That's not an accident Primor Security Corporation come on we just cracked this thing wide open.
• 42:55
  Track 2: It can't be it can't be an accident.
• 42:58
  Track 1: Alright does anyone know how to contact Tony Gilroy to come on the left of the
• 43:01
  Track 1: projector let's get him for season 2 yeah we need him on here we got questions,
• 43:08
  Track 1: oh but no that's like I mean I mean,
• 43:13
  Track 1: just like your connection of the partisans and then
• 43:16
  Track 1: that song and that that whole thing yeah well anyway uh trying to think of some
• 43:24
  Track 1: other i mean like again we could probably talk about this show for this these
• 43:27
  Track 1: like episodes for a long time what are some things that i haven't mentioned
• 43:31
  Track 1: just specific you know it doesn't have to be like a scene necessarily but things that i've,
• 43:36
  Track 1: we've left out tons of stuff.
• 43:37
  Track 3: All right so i got i got one is um
• 43:41
  Track 3: and it's like talking about the
• 43:44
  Track 3: palestinian resistance it's pack's son
• 43:47
  Track 3: you know pack is the owner of the shop
• 43:49
  Track 3: that bix uses her radio to communicate with
• 43:52
  Track 3: luthan he ends up getting taken by isb and
• 43:56
  Track 3: in a show of force by the
• 43:58
  Track 3: prefect um is publicly
• 44:03
  Track 3: uh hung and murdered um radicalizing
• 44:07
  Track 3: pack son to make a bomb to throw
• 44:10
  Track 3: that he ends up throwing at fucking marva's um
• 44:14
  Track 3: funeral ceremony like just
• 44:17
  Track 3: that radicalization where it's like that kid
• 44:20
  Track 3: didn't need theory that kid didn't need
• 44:23
  Track 3: youtube videos or fucking
• 44:26
  Track 3: tiktoks or fucking instagram posts explaining revolutionary
• 44:31
  Track 3: action and shit like no he knew who his enemy
• 44:33
  Track 3: was and he was fucking willing to do stuff do something about
• 44:36
  Track 3: it and in reflecting
• 44:40
  Track 3: on like comparing that to the palestinian resistance it's
• 44:43
  Track 3: like not everybody not like
• 44:46
  Track 3: contrary to israeli propaganda and hasbara says
• 44:49
  Track 3: like these kids aren't immediately growing up being born to hate jewish people
• 44:56
  Track 3: no they have idf forces killing their family and they see no other hope because
• 45:03
  Track 3: they live in an occupied land in an open-air prison in gaza or the fucking west bank.
• 45:07
  Track 1: What's more radicalizing than seeing like.
• 45:09
  Track 3: Your entire family just massacred exactly like it makes me like right i'm a
• 45:13
  Track 3: little internet brain sometimes but like there was a tweet that i like I can't remember exactly,
• 45:18
  Track 3: but it was like, if you kill my entire family and tell me that it was in hopes
• 45:24
  Track 3: to end Hamas, the first thing I'm doing is making Hamas 2.0.
• 45:28
  Track 2: And to be more general about that, that immediately made me think of something I read multiple times.
• 45:36
  Track 2: You don't learn communism from Marx. You learn it from hunger,
• 45:39
  Track 2: from being beaten by a cop for not paying a bribe, from being falsely arrested
• 45:43
  Track 2: for your case or religion for being told not to cry when asked to work 18 hours a day.
• 45:49
  Track 2: Mark simply explains why that happened.
• 45:52
  Track 2: You don't need theory to be radicalized. Theory, like Andor, Andor is radicalized.
• 46:01
  Track 2: Nemec writes it for him. You don't need theory to be radicalized.
• 46:06
  Track 2: You need reality to be radicalized. Reality radicalizes you.
• 46:10
  Track 2: Theory explains why this is happening to you and what you need to do to succeed.
• 46:17
  Track 2: Not what you need to do to fight back, what you need to do to succeed in fighting back.
• 46:24
  Track 2: There's a difference between fighting back and succeeding, which is what Luton
• 46:27
  Track 2: says to Endor. There's a huge difference between fighting back and succeeding in fighting.
• 46:31
  Track 2: And that is what theory and organization gives you and learning from the past
• 46:35
  Track 2: and learning from prior revolutionaries.
• 46:38
  Track 2: That's what that gives you. You don't need any of that to be radicalized.
• 46:42
  Track 2: All you need to do is live life under the boot.
• 46:44
  Track 3: It makes me think of that Stone Cold Steve Austin meme, or is the meme where
• 46:48
  Track 3: Stone Cold Steve Austin, And it's like, I've never, I may never read Marxist
• 46:52
  Track 3: capital, but I wear the Marxist capital on my body.
• 46:55
  Track 1: Well, that, that like, again, it's like another plug for something like Mao again,
• 46:58
  Track 1: too, where he wasn't writing these theories or the, you know,
• 47:02
  Track 1: what he did to give to the masses in the rural China to tell them that they're
• 47:07
  Track 1: being oppressed. They, they knew that already.
• 47:10
  Track 1: It was to show them how they can fight back. Like, he literally wrote an entire,
• 47:14
  Track 1: you know, book, which is sitting behind me, on guerrilla warfare,
• 47:18
  Track 1: how to tactically beat the people who are doing this to you.
• 47:21
  Track 1: And you could probably argue that Nemec's little, you know, manifesto wasn't
• 47:27
  Track 1: necessarily to tell Andor and other people, like, that the Empire is bad.
• 47:32
  Track 1: Everyone knew the Empire was bad. It was telling you, now that you know it's
• 47:36
  Track 1: bad, what can you do about it?
• 47:38
  Track 1: And, you know, uh, not just, um...
• 47:43
  Track 1: Uh, Luthan is, you know, understands all this as well.
• 47:47
  Track 1: And he's very good at using the clout and power and influence he has to recruit
• 47:52
  Track 1: people to the cause that all, again, are already radicalized for them.
• 47:57
  Track 1: I mean, Andor, I guess you said was radicalized, but he wasn't,
• 47:59
  Track 1: he didn't click, didn't click, you know?
• 48:02
  Track 1: So that's just to say all this is correct.
• 48:05
  Track 2: I mean, Andor was an anarchist, essentially.
• 48:07
  Track 1: Yeah, I guess so. In a way. I mean, he was very also self and self-involved, right? You could say.
• 48:13
  Track 2: Individual actions you know against the oppressor you know knows who the enemy
• 48:18
  Track 2: is but acts against it in an event you know with a philosophy of adventurism
• 48:24
  Track 2: and individualism as opposed to building organizing building an organization
• 48:29
  Track 2: that works together in order to bring it down.
• 48:32
  Track 1: Like wasn't wasn't luthan's like big thing when he first recruits him and he's
• 48:35
  Track 1: taking him to aldani is you know you know you're just like doing these one little
• 48:40
  Track 1: one-off jobs and i don't remember the quote now he basically says like don't
• 48:43
  Track 1: you want to like really get them like you know hit them where it hurts you know,
• 48:48
  Track 1: destroy the Death Star literally so well I have a question do you think that
• 48:52
  Track 1: at this point Luthien and them knew that all this was leading up to getting
• 48:55
  Track 1: the plan for the Death Star or is that just something that they come upon sort of I think they come.
• 49:02
  Track 3: Upon it I mean I think Luthien does a really good job analyzing,
• 49:08
  Track 3: the material conditions of the Star Wars universe and understanding that like
• 49:11
  Track 3: Like he says to Saw, he's like, we're quickly approaching the point where the
• 49:17
  Track 3: Empire will tighten its grasp so much that we can't fight back.
• 49:20
  Track 3: And so, yeah, definitely down that line.
• 49:23
  Track 3: I mean, it was even something like that I was thinking of is,
• 49:26
  Track 3: you know, I was jokingly playing around
• 49:30
  Track 3: with my wife. It was the case for accelerationism in Star Wars universe.
• 49:37
  Track 3: And basically just, yeah, they were building a fucking Death Star. So, yeah.
• 49:41
  Track 2: Yeah.
• 49:42
  Track 3: Do what you need to do. It's also fiction. So, yeah.
• 49:48
  Track 1: Yeah. The irony being that the United States in the 1980s had a project nicknamed Star Wars. Yeah.
• 49:57
  Track 1: Like almost too funny that there's still people that are like is star wars about
• 50:01
  Track 1: america i don't get it really we're the i mean the.
• 50:05
  Track 2: Fact that my church literally was like yeah it's about the.
• 50:08
  Track 1: They're like but
• 50:11
  Track 1: wait the empire is the vietcong right or like i don't know something whatever
• 50:17
  Track 1: whatever they want to tell themselves to yeah okay but that no that was a good
• 50:21
  Track 1: a good uh a good thing what do you do you have anything bill that we haven't
• 50:24
  Track 1: like we again like we could spend time on like the prison break we talked about
• 50:29
  Track 1: kind of the the thing there there's.
• 50:30
  Track 3: So many things we could talk about luthan's speech luthan's sacrifice speech
• 50:35
  Track 3: the best monologue in the fucking whole show i mean help marva's fucking funeral
• 50:39
  Track 3: speech is fucking incredible namic's manifesto i mean is pretty solid it's kind
• 50:45
  Track 3: of lacking in substance at some.
• 50:46
  Track 1: Point yeah oh the the the funeral speech is great because at first like you
• 50:52
  Track 1: see the empire like the stormtroopers and whatnot it's like oh this this seems
• 50:56
  Track 1: not great for us what they're saying and then he they're like oh fuck like,
• 51:01
  Track 1: oh fuck throw the jacket over and then and then uh and.
• 51:05
  Track 3: In like typical like empire fashion can't even do that properly fucks up throwing
• 51:09
  Track 3: a jacket over a fucking robot that's not moving but all right i.
• 51:13
  Track 2: Think luthan's speech is incredibly poignant.
• 51:16
  Track 1: Should i read it real quick.
• 51:17
  Track 3: I'll just say i gotta i gotta copied into my nose too.
• 51:20
  Track 1: Well so what's so just to put it like in a tiny bit of context this is during
• 51:24
  Track 1: a moment when he is meeting with this contact in the isb so this person they've
• 51:30
  Track 1: recruited for many years and he wants to come out he doesn't want to do it anymore
• 51:34
  Track 1: and you know basically he says to him and what do you sacrifice to luthan oh oh.
• 51:39
  Track 3: Real quick real quick like for totally like valid reason which is like a lot
• 51:44
  Track 3: of reasons a reason a lot of revolutionary stop.
• 51:47
  Track 1: Being revolutionaries yep they.
• 51:49
  Track 3: Have a kid,
• 51:51
  Track 3: They have kids, you know, and then they're still living in the circumstances
• 51:54
  Track 3: of the status quo. And it's like, fuck, do I really want to risk this for my kid?
• 51:59
  Track 3: It affects a lot of revolutionaries.
• 52:01
  Track 1: Yeah, no. So I'm sorry.
• 52:02
  Track 3: I just wanted to. I thought I thought that was like a great throw into the show.
• 52:06
  Track 3: It's like the guy spent years doing literally something that will get his fucking
• 52:12
  Track 3: life ended if the fascist CIA finds out that he's doing this and no problems.
• 52:19
  Track 3: But as soon as he has a kid, now it's an issue.
• 52:23
  Track 1: Yeah, because, I mean, they could theoretically take his kid away when,
• 52:25
  Track 1: you know, he would grow up without a father.
• 52:27
  Track 1: All those, you know, things that you would then all of a sudden have to think
• 52:29
  Track 1: about. But yeah, let me read his little, his speech. He says.
• 52:36
  Track 1: Calm.
• 52:41
  Track 1: Kindness, kinship.
• 52:44
  Track 1: Love.
• 52:47
  Track 1: I've given up all chance at inner peace I made my mind a sunless face,
• 52:53
  Track 1: I share my dreams with ghosts I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15
• 53:00
  Track 1: years ago from which there's only one conclusion I'm damned for what I do,
• 53:06
  Track 1: my anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield my eagerness to fight has set me
• 53:12
  Track 1: on a path from which there's no escape I yearned to be a savior against injustice
• 53:16
  Track 1: without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down,
• 53:20
  Track 1: There was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my what is my sacrifice?
• 53:25
  Track 1: I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy. I,
• 53:30
  Track 1: I burned my decency for someone else's future. I burned my life to make a sunrise
• 53:35
  Track 1: that I know I'll never see.
• 53:37
  Track 1: Now, the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience
• 53:42
  Track 1: or the light of gratitude.
• 53:46
  Track 1: So what do I sacrifice?
• 53:50
  Track 1: Everything!
• 53:54
  Track 1: It's so good.
• 53:56
  Track 3: It's so incredible.
• 53:57
  Track 1: The line that's sick with me is the, I burn my life to make a sunrise. I know I'll never see.
• 54:03
  Track 1: I think is to me, like the idea that you're not necessarily being a revolutionary
• 54:08
  Track 1: for yourself. You're doing it for future generations.
• 54:10
  Track 3: Oh yeah. No, it's that old quote of planting a tree so that your children can sit under its shade.
• 54:17
  Track 2: I don't think I'm 43 years old. I've lived my entire, I've lived my entire life in this country.
• 54:24
  Track 2: Um and even from
• 54:27
  Track 2: a young age like i'm a weird i'm a weird person
• 54:30
  Track 2: even as a young person like
• 54:33
  Track 2: i was when i was a little kid i'm talking like elementary school so like i'm
• 54:39
  Track 2: 43 years old so when i was in elementary school i was about the time when like
• 54:43
  Track 2: you know the ozone hole all that we had a big thing about environmentalism that's
• 54:49
  Track 2: like the start of my radicalization i remember being like fifth grade,
• 54:52
  Track 2: I'm putting on presentations on the environment to like my parents about like what needs to be done.
• 55:01
  Track 2: And I moved through life and I see things. I'm 43 years old.
• 55:08
  Track 2: I don't think I, I don't have kids, not going to have kids.
• 55:13
  Track 2: I don't think that I'm going to see the dream that I want.
• 55:18
  Track 2: I don't think I'm going to, like, I strive for revolutionary optimism,
• 55:22
  Track 2: but I don't think I'm going to see it, but I want my nephews to see it.
• 55:26
  Track 2: I want, you know, I want the kid down the street to see it.
• 55:31
  Track 2: You know, like I'm not doing this because I'm going to see it.
• 55:35
  Track 2: I don't think I am. Like, I don't think I am.
• 55:38
  Track 2: Like I'm, you know, like I'm going gonna die
• 55:41
  Track 2: not seeing it but i'm gonna fight for
• 55:44
  Track 2: it and i don't care who you know
• 55:46
  Track 2: like i want those kids to see it and it's you know it's like sorry this is like
• 55:51
  Track 2: a little like you know i i can't you know to like set the tone for this like
• 55:55
  Track 2: i literally you know we started recording right after my wife who's a librarian
• 56:00
  Track 2: read about the statement made by the person they put in charge of um imos of United States,
• 56:06
  Track 2: the office of the I-LOS, raided,
• 56:10
  Track 2: and he put a statement out about it.
• 56:15
  Track 2: And you can cut this if you want, Evan. This is actually kind of like a heavy day for me.
• 56:22
  Track 2: You know, we just had an executive order signed or attempting to dismantle the
• 56:28
  Track 2: Department of Education in the United States,
• 56:31
  Track 2: in which the person they put in charge of the MLS basically put out a statement
• 56:36
  Track 2: saying that they're going to ensure that American exceptionalism is at the forefront,
• 56:46
  Track 2: For those who don't know, IMLS is the Institute of Museum and Library Services.
• 56:51
  Track 2: So that's what puts federal funding into libraries, which is one of the only
• 56:55
  Track 2: safe third spaces in this country, which people who do not have economic privilege use for internet,
• 57:04
  Track 2: business purposes, all kinds of things.
• 57:07
  Track 2: Sometimes it's shelter from a storm if they don't have a home or a house.
• 57:13
  Track 1: Apply for a job.
• 57:14
  Track 2: For a job yeah they.
• 57:16
  Track 1: Have media rooms you can go to and actually organize.
• 57:18
  Track 2: Yeah um so yeah
• 57:21
  Track 2: you know like uh they're basically like you know they're they're trying
• 57:24
  Track 2: to you know shut that down um so
• 57:28
  Track 2: yeah you know like i don't think i'm going to but i
• 57:31
  Track 2: want other generations i want my
• 57:34
  Track 2: friend's kid who is trans to be
• 57:37
  Track 2: safe and see that i want that you know and
• 57:41
  Track 2: like the luthan thing you know
• 57:45
  Track 2: it's like it makes me think of stalin again it's like
• 57:47
  Track 2: you know that man has been damned in history but
• 57:51
  Track 2: if you actually read fucking shit you'll see you
• 57:54
  Track 2: know what he did to try to advance his
• 57:58
  Track 2: people's welfare and he's been damned for
• 58:01
  Track 2: it and it's the same thing as like you know that whole thing i'm condemned
• 58:04
  Track 2: to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them i burn my
• 58:07
  Track 2: decency for someone else's future i'm condemned
• 58:10
  Track 2: to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them we are constantly those
• 58:14
  Track 2: of us who are marxists who are socialists who are marxist leninists we are constantly
• 58:18
  Track 2: constantly confronted with the idea of like well all communist revolutions are
• 58:24
  Track 2: violent they're violent they're so violent and you return to you know cashier
• 58:30
  Track 2: who said i believe it was cashier was a cashier wasn't male,
• 58:32
  Track 2: who said, you know, like,
• 58:34
  Track 2: it is, we are not the ones who choose violence.
• 58:37
  Track 2: It is the oppressors who choose violence. We would liberate people through peace if possible.
• 58:44
  Track 2: It is the oppressor who chooses violence and we must defend ourselves and defend
• 58:51
  Track 2: people against that violence.
• 58:54
  Track 2: And that is, look, nobody wants, we don't want the violence.
• 58:59
  Track 2: We want people to be happy and safe and well.
• 59:03
  Track 2: But you are met with the violence of fashion, the violence of capitalism.
• 59:08
  Track 3: That makes me think of the Asada Shakur quote where it's no one has ever won
• 59:14
  Track 3: their freedom by appealing to the better nature of their oppressors.
• 59:17
  Track 1: I can also cut this to like the Department of Education aspect like this is
• 59:22
  Track 1: also in part to the quote we were talking about in the alien Romulus episode
• 59:27
  Track 1: from fascism like they need to control us through after they've controlled the
• 59:34
  Track 1: corporations and the government.
• 59:35
  Track 1: They have to have to control our education because that is the only way they
• 59:39
  Track 1: can seize our inability to actually read about alternatives.
• 59:45
  Track 1: And if they want to teach American exceptionalism to people who are in third
• 59:49
  Track 1: grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, they will not understand these things.
• 59:53
  Track 1: They will read that Stalin killed a trillion, Chilean, gazillion people that
• 59:58
  Track 1: have ever lived and Mao ate everyone or fucking, I don't know, whatever.
• 1:00:02
  Track 1: They ate all the grain. I'm just mixing up all this stuff.
• 1:00:04
  Track 3: This giant spoon.
• 1:00:05
  Track 1: It's yeah spoon whatever like it's all
• 1:00:08
  Track 1: just um it's yeah
• 1:00:11
  Track 1: it's and it actually to bring it back to
• 1:00:14
  Track 1: andor and not just that quote you don't really see
• 1:00:17
  Track 1: the one critique i would say it would be really interesting to see more of the
• 1:00:21
  Track 1: like youth like children on some of these planets i mean you do see andor as
• 1:00:27
  Track 1: a child on this planet that's destroyed but i'd be interested to learn how they
• 1:00:31
  Track 1: teach kids about you know the empire like oh.
• 1:00:36
  Track 3: I'm just picturing like snow piercer like school.
• 1:00:39
  Track 1: Right like it's got to be like really fucked up but there's so many planets
• 1:00:43
  Track 1: are they like controlling the education on oh.
• 1:00:45
  Track 3: They got to.
• 1:00:46
  Track 1: Right they have to i.
• 1:00:49
  Track 2: Think it is far more likely that child care and education in the star wars universe
• 1:00:56
  Track 2: especially on those like outer rim planets or those planets that are not like,
• 1:01:02
  Track 2: you know major like hubs that are like you know major like
• 1:01:05
  Track 2: imperial hubs right i think they're probably far more
• 1:01:08
  Track 2: like what it was like in the united states for child
• 1:01:11
  Track 2: labor laws those kids they're not getting fucking educated they're not getting
• 1:01:14
  Track 2: educated they're not going to school they're fucking working they're getting
• 1:01:17
  Track 2: their little fingers inside the parts for the death star you know and the the
• 1:01:22
  Track 2: atats you know their little tiny fingers you know they're fucking working they're
• 1:01:26
  Track 2: not they're not going to school i mean.
• 1:01:28
  Track 3: We know what kids do in the star wars universe they fucking pod race dude.
• 1:01:32
  Track 2: Yeah they're like they're sold into slavery right yeah they're sold.
• 1:01:38
  Track 3: Into slavery so they could.
• 1:01:39
  Track 2: Last time we had kids in star wars that's what we got do we really want to see a lot of actually.
• 1:01:45
  Track 3: No last time we got kids they all got.
• 1:01:47
  Track 2: Slaughtered oh all.
• 1:01:49
  Track 1: Right so i have to tell you i had a larry story so i was
• 1:01:52
  Track 1: talking with my eight-year-old today about star wars we're
• 1:01:55
  Track 1: talking about like it somehow just like ran the camp we're talking about anakin
• 1:01:58
  Track 1: and she was saying like oh you know anakin kind of
• 1:02:01
  Track 1: got like you know uh i can't remember the exact thing exactly the terms but
• 1:02:06
  Track 1: she's like oh you know like you know a lot of the things he did were actually
• 1:02:08
  Track 1: because of the emperor i'm like well he still murdered a bunch of children like
• 1:02:13
  Track 1: is it because of the emperor and she's like well but he like convinced him that
• 1:02:16
  Track 1: it was the right thing to do i'm like yeah but he still killed all those.
• 1:02:19
  Track 2: Kids all right all.
• 1:02:21
  Track 3: Right child time to learn about the nirnberg trials and how.
• 1:02:25
  Track 2: Following orders isn't a valid excuse i know i mean i think i mean.
• 1:02:32
  Track 1: I think that her point was that he was troubled and that maybe his again this
• 1:02:39
  Track 1: is like this is an argument of someone who's like red you know this is a child i.
• 1:02:43
  Track 3: Use for um people that are committed like committed of or accused of domestic
• 1:02:48
  Track 3: terrorism that have been radicalized by the fbi.
• 1:02:50
  Track 2: Yeah that is actually that is a i
• 1:02:54
  Track 2: mean to be fair arnequin is still
• 1:02:57
  Track 2: basically a child when that happens like yeah he's
• 1:03:01
  Track 2: what like 1920 he actually like you're funny it is funny to be like that is
• 1:03:06
  Track 2: the nazi argument but also like your daughter actually does kind of have a point
• 1:03:10
  Track 2: like i know very much has been manipulated by the system into becoming what he is like Well.
• 1:03:20
  Track 1: Because part of her argument was that he actually is one of the few people,
• 1:03:24
  Track 1: like, Jedi's, that actually is, like, a good person that's constantly questioning
• 1:03:28
  Track 1: decisions made by the Jedi, which are also pretty fucked up.
• 1:03:32
  Track 1: Like, the Jedi is, as an org, is a pretty messed up thing.
• 1:03:35
  Track 2: Jedi are undoubtedly the worst part about Star Wars.
• 1:03:40
  Track 1: But anyway, we don't need to dwell on that.
• 1:03:44
  Track 3: And they're also not good people.
• 1:03:45
  Track 2: They're also what?
• 1:03:47
  Track 3: They're also not good people.
• 1:03:49
  Track 2: I mean, that's what I meant, but also, you know, the other thing, too.
• 1:03:53
  Track 3: I mean it in both ways.
• 1:03:55
  Track 2: Bill. Yeah, I mean it in both ways, too, as I'm saying.
• 1:03:59
  Track 1: They like to call themselves the light side of the force, but really it's just
• 1:04:03
  Track 1: like the Democrats to the Republicans. The Democrats.
• 1:04:08
  Track 1: I know. i'm praying there's no jedi in season two for your sake bill i.
• 1:04:13
  Track 2: Hate jedi so much they're so bad.
• 1:04:15
  Track 3: Oh dude that will that will put a major dent in how i review season two if there's fucking jedi in it.
• 1:04:22
  Track 1: I don't think they i don't think there will be like there's no reason to have
• 1:04:26
  Track 1: them be in it because they just don't play a part in this story this is about
• 1:04:30
  Track 1: humans individuals with no quote unquote superior powers this is like the will
• 1:04:37
  Track 1: of actual human strength and sacrifice okay.
• 1:04:40
  Track 3: But i can also see a bunch of losers being like dude what if we got another
• 1:04:43
  Track 3: cool like fucking hallway scene.
• 1:04:47
  Track 1: Right forget that forget that so the ending
• 1:04:51
  Track 1: of the of the series you have like sort
• 1:04:53
  Track 1: of like two pieces that i think i wrote like these as like two endings like
• 1:04:56
  Track 1: there's the ending on ferrix where like you see like this
• 1:05:00
  Track 1: budding rebellion and then you also see the
• 1:05:02
  Track 1: like flipping of andor like on his little on the
• 1:05:06
  Track 1: ship with uh luthan basically saying like you know if you have to kill me you
• 1:05:10
  Track 1: know go ahead here's the gun and like i think that's when luthan realized like
• 1:05:13
  Track 1: this dude's ready to fucking you know do some shit for us and i just from like
• 1:05:18
  Track 1: again i haven't watched any of the little trailers or anything but i do know
• 1:05:22
  Track 1: unfortunately that he's like gonna have some,
• 1:05:25
  Track 1: don some like costume or like different, like he's going to go undercover.
• 1:05:30
  Track 1: I just know that. That's only the only thing I know about season two.
• 1:05:33
  Track 2: I know. I know what he's going to do.
• 1:05:36
  Track 3: Yeah, I know less than you. I thought you were watching it.
• 1:05:39
  Track 1: Now you all know this. I saw a picture that came on my screen,
• 1:05:43
  Track 1: which I couldn't not see. And then I'm like, fuck. I looked at the picture.
• 1:05:47
  Track 2: This is Andor in season two looking like...
• 1:05:53
  Track 3: He grabbed spoons so fast to scoop those eyes out. Like, no!
• 1:05:59
  Track 1: I burned the algorithm immediately. Fuck.
• 1:06:03
  Track 3: Instantly uninstalls Instagram from his phone. No!
• 1:06:07
  Track 1: I just deleted my presence on the internet. But yeah, so, like,
• 1:06:11
  Track 1: what do you make of, like, the end?
• 1:06:13
  Track 1: Like, I'm gonna ask this stupid question. You can tell me if you don't want to answer it.
• 1:06:16
  Track 1: Like, do you have any predictions of what will, might, like,
• 1:06:19
  Track 1: what things that could happen in the second season?
• 1:06:21
  Track 1: Like, what shit do you want? I mean, the thing that's cool is we know exactly
• 1:06:25
  Track 1: where, like, the last scene is gonna be.
• 1:06:26
  Track 1: Like, it's gonna be the start of Rogue One.
• 1:06:30
  Track 1: Do you think that Mon Moth is going to get caught.
• 1:06:32
  Track 3: I think.
• 1:06:33
  Track 1: I'm pronouncing her name wrong every time sorry Mon.
• 1:06:36
  Track 2: I think so I think her husband is going to fucking I think her husband is going to fucking turn her in.
• 1:06:42
  Track 1: No I think the daughter is going to turn.
• 1:06:44
  Track 3: Her in no yeah the.
• 1:06:48
  Track 1: Daughter does not like her like it's very clear that she's like a.
• 1:06:51
  Track 3: Daddy like I'm on the internet so I know like a couple like I know one thing
• 1:06:55
  Track 3: about season 2 is we're supposed to be getting um the whatever massacre that's
• 1:07:01
  Track 3: referenced in andor or not andor a rogue one i think.
• 1:07:04
  Track 1: Oh um i know which one you're talking.
• 1:07:06
  Track 3: About yeah i think we're gonna get that you.
• 1:07:08
  Track 2: Don't need to be on the internet to know that that's like.
• 1:07:10
  Track 3: Yeah and then uh well i mean i try to avoid like anything about like shows and
• 1:07:15
  Track 3: movies so like but the gorman.
• 1:07:17
  Track 1: Massacre is that the one.
• 1:07:18
  Track 3: Yeah that one tracks that.
• 1:07:19
  Track 2: Would be like it's a it's a sacred assumption.
• 1:07:21
  Track 3: Yeah that's all right,
• 1:07:23
  Track 3: But as for Mon Mothma, I saw somebody was reading fucking some Star Wars book
• 1:07:31
  Track 3: or some shit, like Dark Mask, or Mask of Fear, I think is what they were reading.
• 1:07:38
  Track 3: And it was like, Mon Mothma's husband, I think she's getting seized by stormtroopers,
• 1:07:44
  Track 3: and he straight up attacks the fucking stormtroopers.
• 1:07:47
  Track 2: Really?
• 1:07:47
  Track 3: Like, he defends her, yeah. Which is wild.
• 1:07:50
  Track 2: That's a wild character change.
• 1:07:52
  Track 3: Right? from what i've seen in andor fuck him yeah.
• 1:07:57
  Track 1: Well here here's a question does he have any money without her i think the answer is no that's.
• 1:08:03
  Track 2: Why this issue.
• 1:08:04
  Track 1: Is so he that's why he would defend gambling yeah his gambling well no that's
• 1:08:09
  Track 1: well that was a that was a that's that is like the best thing that she's done
• 1:08:13
  Track 1: on the show like her that was.
• 1:08:14
  Track 2: A great whole little tactic that was a great tactic but yes you know like he
• 1:08:20
  Track 2: pre he's he promised he doesn't gamble anymore but clearly that's been an issue
• 1:08:25
  Track 2: in the past and if he had money like i feel like it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
• 1:08:29
  Track 1: Wait is it what is this book leader talking about is this like a fan fiction or what is it i.
• 1:08:34
  Track 3: Don't i don't here give me a second give me a second.
• 1:08:36
  Track 1: I i like i just googled it but i don't the.
• 1:08:38
  Track 2: Mask of fear before the rent.
• 1:08:41
  Track 3: Uh yeah here it is uh reign of the empire the mask of fear yeah and he's like
• 1:08:48
  Track 3: a nerdy marxist type so i'm gonna like i'll.
• 1:08:51
  Track 1: Take him at his tweets okay i hadn't heard of this book like it's new it just came out.
• 1:08:56
  Track 3: Yeah so he was reading it and like that's when he like tweeted out the thing like yeah.
• 1:09:02
  Track 1: Maybe i have to yeah.
• 1:09:04
  Track 2: I don't i don't think mom is gonna i don't think she's gonna die i'm gonna tell you based on the yeah.
• 1:09:09
  Track 3: I'm pretty sure she's not dying in season two i'm willing to bet money on it,
• 1:09:14
  Track 3: Feeling really confident in my approach.
• 1:09:17
  Track 2: This is what happens when you are not super into the rest of Star Wars,
• 1:09:22
  Track 2: and you don't realize that certain characters like Juan Mothma are apparently
• 1:09:26
  Track 2: really fucking important later.
• 1:09:30
  Track 3: Right?
• 1:09:31
  Track 1: Right. So the thing, the same thing, interesting about this book,
• 1:09:34
  Track 1: it says it's apparently right after like Palpatine, like kind of takes,
• 1:09:38
  Track 1: destroys the Republic and like Saw Gerrera apparently is part of him,
• 1:09:43
  Track 1: like his beginning of like figuring out what to do.
• 1:09:46
  Track 1: So it's like the early creation of rebellion, which actually does sound interesting.
• 1:09:51
  Track 1: I love to like read a book about like Saw Gerrera and like his,
• 1:09:54
  Track 1: you know, that that's interesting to me, even though I know you said like,
• 1:09:57
  Track 1: Bill, like the other rest of it doesn't matter all that much.
• 1:10:00
  Track 3: He's an anarchist.
• 1:10:01
  Track 1: You think so?
• 1:10:03
  Track 3: Luton calls him as such. Whenever you got Saw going through,
• 1:10:08
  Track 3: literally listing all the partisan groups, and they're all lost.
• 1:10:13
  Track 3: And then eventually Luton hits
• 1:10:14
  Track 3: him with, oh yeah, anarchism is an enticing concept or whatever he says.
• 1:10:19
  Track 2: It's not just that. It's the idea of, he doesn't need to even say that.
• 1:10:24
  Track 2: Saw, the way Saw talks, is ultra-washed.
• 1:10:28
  Track 2: He is unwilling to coalition, though.
• 1:10:33
  Track 2: He is unwilling to work with anyone that doesn't meet his criteria.
• 1:10:39
  Track 2: Like, he talks like an ultra-leftist.
• 1:10:43
  Track 3: Yeah, even when he agrees to, like, finally agrees to hop on the job with Anto
• 1:10:47
  Track 3: Krieger, he's like, he has to agree to all of my terms.
• 1:10:51
  Track 3: Also, his name is definitely reminiscent of Che, but whatever.
• 1:10:54
  Track 2: Yeah, I never even thought of that.
• 1:10:56
  Track 1: Che. you guys didn't think of that no i didn't actually oh that makes sense
• 1:11:02
  Track 1: yeah jay wasn't an angry no.
• 1:11:05
  Track 2: He was not oh definitely not definitely
• 1:11:08
  Track 2: not which i'm not happy about book about how you shouldn't be one.
• 1:11:15
  Track 1: Well so maybe this is a good one to like end on so i know we've talked about like the comparisons to,
• 1:11:21
  Track 1: Palestine you know the Palestinian uprising we talk about the the partisans all these different
• 1:11:28
  Track 1: things and even some of the things today like the Patriot Act but like
• 1:11:31
  Track 1: if you were to tell like if someone were to ask
• 1:11:34
  Track 1: you like how does this connect to now in
• 1:11:38
  Track 1: a way that's useful for people who are like
• 1:11:41
  Track 1: leftists organizing you know any kind of thing like what would you how would
• 1:11:45
  Track 1: you connect the dots to and it's like this could like you could like have an
• 1:11:48
  Track 1: episode on just this question but do you know what i mean like how does it fit
• 1:11:53
  Track 1: in the context of being relevant today beyond some of those things we already talked about i.
• 1:11:59
  Track 2: Think marvis speech marvis speech is probably one of the most especially for
• 1:12:03
  Track 2: americans um so the other day i was listening to um socialist program uh the
• 1:12:09
  Track 2: episode with uh the regular wednesday episodes and richard wolf is on,
• 1:12:14
  Track 2: and if you are listeners are familiar with richard wolf he's a marxist economist
• 1:12:18
  Track 2: he's frequently on the socials program um he his family's french um.
• 1:12:24
  Track 2: And he often talks about his family and um
• 1:12:27
  Track 2: he discussed how given recent
• 1:12:31
  Track 2: activities in france when he was recently talking
• 1:12:34
  Track 2: to his family they were talking about how they were
• 1:12:38
  Track 2: ready to go out in the streets and he
• 1:12:41
  Track 2: makes the point when he says that that his family this is like that richard
• 1:12:46
  Track 2: wolf is a marxist organizer uh or marxist economist and organizer who founded
• 1:12:52
  Track 2: you know a major active organizing group in the United States and has been involved
• 1:12:58
  Track 2: in leftist organizing for decades now. His family is not political.
• 1:13:02
  Track 2: His family lives in France and they are not political. But he makes the point
• 1:13:05
  Track 2: that France, French citizens,
• 1:13:09
  Track 2: we could talk about the flaws behind French revolutionary activity,
• 1:13:13
  Track 2: both in the past and current, and the flaws behind it and the manner in which it has been operated.
• 1:13:19
  Track 2: We could talk about those flaws. But what he says is, he's like, they never forgot.
• 1:13:24
  Track 2: They never forgot what got results.
• 1:13:27
  Track 2: They have never forgotten what you need to do to put the ruling class in check.
• 1:13:34
  Track 2: They never, no matter what, even if they've not taken it, like, you know,
• 1:13:39
  Track 2: even the average non-political French citizen knows when shit happens,
• 1:13:46
  Track 2: you go to the streets and you stand with your other citizens. set.
• 1:13:50
  Track 3: Some shit on fire.
• 1:13:51
  Track 2: Yeah throw.
• 1:13:51
  Track 3: Manure in a fucking.
• 1:13:52
  Track 2: Parliament building like marva's
• 1:13:57
  Track 2: like entire speech is basically like we in
• 1:14:00
  Track 2: the west in america we forgot that we
• 1:14:03
  Track 2: we you know like so so many like have forgotten haven't
• 1:14:06
  Track 2: had it beaten out of us and she's like i've been
• 1:14:10
  Track 2: asleep we have been asleep you need to wake up and
• 1:14:13
  Track 2: like that is i think probably the most
• 1:14:16
  Track 2: important thing like literally like i said just
• 1:14:19
  Track 2: having this and i'm like i said to my wife you know i try to
• 1:14:22
  Track 2: keep revolutionary optimism alive in my heart but look
• 1:14:25
  Track 2: we need more people people need to wake up we need people to wake up you need
• 1:14:31
  Track 2: to get out there you need to organize you need to stand with your fellow citizens
• 1:14:35
  Track 2: you need to stand with your fellow human beings not your citizens not the fellow
• 1:14:39
  Track 2: citizens it's the fellow human beings of which the ruling class are seeking to oppress,
• 1:14:45
  Track 2: exploit, kill, you need to stand with them. You need to wake up.
• 1:14:49
  Track 2: We need to wake up. More of us need to wake the fuck up, like she says.
• 1:14:53
  Track 2: And that's what they do in that moment. They stand together.
• 1:14:56
  Track 2: That scene, standing against the Imperial troops- And the last.
• 1:15:00
  Track 1: Line of her speech.
• 1:15:01
  Track 2: Is one of the most powerful things I've ever seen in fiction.
• 1:15:06
  Track 1: The Empire is a disease that thrives in darkness. It is never more alive.
• 1:15:56
  Track 3: Yeah no i mean and that should resound with a lot of people like i get it like
• 1:16:01
  Track 3: a lot of us right fuck i'm working class like dude i get how hard it is just
• 1:16:07
  Track 3: making it day by day every day,
• 1:16:09
  Track 3: but you still gotta fight for a better future and you know you stay in that
• 1:16:14
  Track 3: cycle of how do i make it day by day by day by day by day by day and before
• 1:16:19
  Track 3: you know it the political atmosphere around you has deteriorated even more things
• 1:16:23
  Track 3: have gotten even worse and.
• 1:16:25
  Track 2: You know never forget that you know it has always been that bad for certain
• 1:16:30
  Track 2: classes of people certain subsets of people within the empire and by empire
• 1:16:34
  Track 2: i mean this fucking one just like you know in you know star wars you know there's
• 1:16:40
  Track 2: a difference between the people that lived you know cass's family the people that lived on,
• 1:16:45
  Track 2: or you know the people that live on on dolly and you know are being like they're being treated worse.
• 1:16:51
  Track 2: They're suffering under the fascist boot to a greater degree than the people
• 1:16:54
  Track 2: of Faris. But that doesn't make a difference.
• 1:16:57
  Track 2: You still have to stand together with all of them.
• 1:17:01
  Track 2: Because, just like when we talk about how it starts in Palestine before it comes
• 1:17:06
  Track 2: home, that's what's happening.
• 1:17:08
  Track 2: It's happening in Palestine right now, and they're going to bring it here.
• 1:17:10
  Track 2: Ignore that it's happening someplace else. You fight to stop it then.
• 1:17:14
  Track 2: Not because it's going to come to you, but because it shouldn't happen to anybody.
• 1:17:17
  Track 2: But never forget that it's not Just because it's not happening to you,
• 1:17:22
  Track 2: then it doesn't matter. And it's not important to fight it.
• 1:17:25
  Track 3: We're not free until all of us are free. And like Bill's point saying it happens
• 1:17:29
  Track 3: to the Palestinians first is, I mean, look at any protests in America.
• 1:17:34
  Track 3: What riot devices are the cops using? Those were used on Palestinians decades ago first.
• 1:17:39
  Track 3: Like they were tested, developed on Palestinians before they got back stateside
• 1:17:43
  Track 3: and were used against you.
• 1:17:45
  Track 3: Yeah, trained by Israelis. cops get sent over to israel to get extra training and brought back.
• 1:17:52
  Track 2: And just think think about the think about the psychology of
• 1:17:55
  Track 2: that israeli army the idea thinks of
• 1:17:59
  Track 2: palestinian people as animals as people
• 1:18:02
  Track 2: as less than people as not human they send
• 1:18:05
  Track 2: our police there to
• 1:18:08
  Track 2: be trained in how and how to treat those people
• 1:18:11
  Track 2: what do you think the fucking cops think
• 1:18:15
  Track 2: of you what do you think they think of you when
• 1:18:18
  Track 2: they fucking pull you over or when you go
• 1:18:21
  Track 2: to a protest and they line up with riot gear do you think they don't do you
• 1:18:26
  Track 2: think they think of you as a fucking person no they think you're a fucking animal
• 1:18:31
  Track 2: just like the idf thinks the palestinian people same thing there's a reason
• 1:18:35
  Track 2: they send them there there's a reason they think like that just like,
• 1:18:40
  Track 2: Imperial troops in Andor look at the people of Farax. They brought a fucking tank to that funeral.
• 1:18:47
  Track 2: For all those people, look what it is. It's a fucking tank. They brought a tank to a funeral.
• 1:18:51
  Track 2: And how many times have we seen in videos the Palestinian people honoring their
• 1:18:57
  Track 2: dead attacked by the IDF with similar armaments?
• 1:19:03
  Track 2: And here in the United States, the same is done to people here standing up for events.
• 1:19:08
  Track 1: I hope you've enjoyed our two-part 12-episode and or discussion from a Marxist-Leninist perspective.
• 1:19:15
  Track 1: Ward and Bill, I appreciate you coming back, and we will bring you Season 2, I swear.
• 1:19:21
  Track 2: I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:19:22
  Track 3: Come back to this podcast to listen to more.
• 1:19:24
  Track 2: Yeah. Everyone out there listening to Lance.