Latest / Left of the Projector / Box Office Drop! Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery (2025)

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Box Office Drop! Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery (2025) · Left of the Projector

0:19
Track 1: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,
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Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the left.
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Track 1: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
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Track 1: you can go to patreon.com forward slash left of the projector pod.
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Track 1: show everyone you've got the best taste around.
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Track 1: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified
0:44
Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.
0:49
Track 1: This week on the show, we bring you a film hot off the streaming press because it's Netflix.
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Track 1: And while they did release this film in theaters, it was a short release period.
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Track 1: So most of the folks out there probably got to see this streaming only.
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Track 1: The film in question is the third in a trilogy, although there's supposed to
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Track 1: be more. So is it a trilogy? I don't know. Three so far.
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Track 1: But the film we're talking about today is Wake Up Dead Man.
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Track 1: this is of course directed by ryan johnson follows
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Track 1: detective benoit blanc played of course by daniel craig who has now reprised
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Track 1: his role in all three films it also stars a bunch of people josh o'connor glenn
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Track 1: close josh brolin mila kunis jeremy renner among many others and i'm joined
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Track 1: per usual by bill and ward how you guys doing tonight.
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Track 2: How you doing i'm pretty good.
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Track 1: I didn't mention how much this made in the box office because i don't think it made much,
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Track 1: This film cost $151.7 million to make, which is kind of shocking to me.
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Track 1: It seems like they could have made it for less.
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Track 1: The first movie, by comparison, was $40 million.
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Track 2: I mean, with this cast, these kind of casts, they're always going to be,
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Track 2: it's always going to be an inflated budget.
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Track 1: Yeah.
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Track 2: Just the casts.
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Track 1: All their salaries.
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Track 2: Yeah.
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Track 3: Yeah, I was about to say. It felt like cast, if you ask me.
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Track 2: I mean, there's no special effects. I mean, there's no real effects.
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Track 2: there's no it's it's all cast.
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Track 3: Yeah very few effects those aren't bumping the budget up crazy.
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Track 1: Yeah who who the hell knows where that money goes like netflix owns this shit
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Track 1: who knows what that budget goes to i.
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Track 2: Mean that too.
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Track 1: Maybe that includes marketing because netflix doesn't usually release their
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Track 1: information about how much they market a film yeah.
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Track 3: Like maybe i mean it was only in theaters for like two weeks.
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Track 1: Yeah which actually they had originally told ryan johnson that it was going
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Track 1: to be in the theater longer, and they basically decided not to do that,
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Track 1: and they would only give it like a token release just so that it could be up
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Track 1: for Oscars, essentially.
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Track 3: And he was really pissed about it. Corporation lying and being a piece of shit?
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Track 1: Not Netflix.
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Track 3: Never.
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Track 1: They're known as a very...
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Track 2: It's funny that, you know, like, we're talking about this movie now,
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Track 2: and it's like all of this is so tangential to the Netflix, Warner Brothers,
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Track 2: Paramount, like, the whole buyout thing.
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Track 2: And, you know, it's just the conglomeration of things and how, like, I don't know.
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Track 2: If I was going to choose a company to buy another, like, you know,
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Track 2: film company, like, Netflix would not be the one.
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Track 2: Like just for if no other reason, like it's so opaque.
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Track 2: What Netflix is a black box of production and like,
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Track 2: just as a person that likes to know things, but like, but also like as a person
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Track 2: who like enjoys film and wants to like note like movies, enjoys movies, not film.
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Track 2: I've never used that word on ironically in my life.
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Track 2: But it's a person who enjoys movies and stuff. I want to know things.
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Track 2: I want to know where the fuck these decisions come from. I want to know the budget stuff.
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Track 2: And I want to know how are they basing any of this? What are they basing it on?
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Track 2: What do they base any of this on? It blows my mind. I just don't get it.
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Track 1: And I was wrong. They paid $469 million for the Knives Out franchise.
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Track 3: Oh, man, you said $250 million. That's a fucking lowball.
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Track 2: That's a huge bump.
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Track 3: These are banger whodunits. You're going to tell me $250? No.
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Track 2: But, I mean, to be fair, at the same time, we can all admit that there are movies
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Track 2: that lend themselves to a theater experience. Correct?
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Track 3: Yes.
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Track 2: Do we think a whodunit – does anyone here think that a whodunit is a requisite
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Track 2: theater-going experience?
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Track 3: Nah.
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Track 1: No.
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Track 2: Like, I'm not trying to, like, slight it, but, like, they're not – these are
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Track 2: the kinds of movies, honestly, they're best enjoyed at home with,
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Track 2: like, one or two other people that you can talk to, like, ooh,
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Track 2: you know, like, what do you think?
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Track 2: You know, like, oh, did you see that? Oh, who do you think it was?
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Track 2: you know like there really are like they're better suited for home view yeah.
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Track 1: I saw the first.
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Track 3: One in.
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Track 2: The theater so did we my wife.
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Track 3: I want to slide it a little bit because i mean when you
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Track 3: came when we did our introductions and you came out with your
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Track 3: fucking hot take of there should be no more movies i gave it a little bit time
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Track 3: and i said that i would come up with a hot take and i was thinking you know
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Track 3: what i agree with that but the exception should be the knives out movies and
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Track 3: then i recently remembered oh fuck they're owned by netflix so maybe i don't
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Track 3: want to double down on that decision i.
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Track 2: Mean like i love the knives out movies i absolutely love them my wife and i
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Track 2: saw we saw the first one of the theaters and it was i i didn't you know like
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Track 2: we didn't like when you saw the first one like it wasn't known like oh this
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Track 2: is gonna be a thing but it's like honestly like in a universe of movies being made,
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Track 2: in our current situation which everything is so boring
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Track 2: and like just like re like reboots and
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Track 2: sequels to stuff that's been done to
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Track 2: death and just like slop like it's just slop this is a franchise that stands
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Track 2: out as engaging and well done and thought-provoking and and actual like and
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Track 2: I will say this unironically, film.
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Track 1: Well, like there's a reason that Agatha DeChristi's books and subsequent film
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Track 1: adaptations are like among the highest sold and made in the history of the world.
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Track 1: You know, like I think she's the third best-selling author of all time.
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Track 1: Maybe the only one above her is Shakespeare, I would imagine.
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Track 1: You know, and like these are estimates because they can't always know the exact.
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Track 1: So this is the kind of movie that people have loved and wanted to see and ryan
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Track 1: johnson makes them really really well i mean for me the first one is still my
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Track 1: favorite this is probably my second favorite and then glass onion is my third
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Track 1: favorite but even as like the third favorite there's it's still a good movie
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Track 1: that movie was a little bit too,
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Track 1: which i did an episode on it was a little too much of the you know rich kind
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Track 1: i don't know it felt like very i don't know go listen to the episode you can hear us complain.
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Track 3: About,
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Track 3: yeah i really enjoyed this one like i thought it wasn't gonna be as good and
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Track 3: then i got into it like i knew it was gonna be good but i didn't think it was
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Track 3: gonna hold up to like the first or second but i was like oh shit i actually
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Track 3: like this one a lot more than the second one yeah.
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Track 1: I and there's like yeah.
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Track 2: I feel like this one,
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Track 2: This one starts a little slower, but once you're like in, like,
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Track 2: I think it helps that like, I do think the main character, Judd,
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Track 2: Pastor Judd, Priest Judd.
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Track 2: Okay. How are these Catholics having children?
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Track 3: Father Judd?
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Track 2: Anyway. Yeah. Father Judd.
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Track 3: Oh, they'd just be doing that.
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Track 2: Halfway through the movie, I turned around. I was like, how are these Catholics?
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Track 2: Why are these Catholics having Catholic priests having kids?
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Track 2: Are they Catholic? And then I'm like, you know, they're Catholics.
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Track 2: Why are they all having fucking kids? What's going on here?
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Track 3: So that's like a thing that's historically happened.
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Track 2: Yeah, but listen, I grew up in New Jersey, okay, which is for those Americans.
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Track 3: Oh, that makes sense. You grew up with buddy Christ. You're not used to this kind of stuff.
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Track 2: For those of you who don't, for listeners who didn't grow up in New Jersey or
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Track 2: New York City area, where like the rest of the country is like largely Protestant.
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Track 2: We're like Catholics all the way here. um and for me when i grew up i didn't
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Track 2: i was like everyone's catholic right that's like what people are catholic the
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Track 2: catholics that's those are the options it's it's you're catholic doesn't.
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Track 3: Everyone have father.
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Track 2: Carlin you're catholic or you're jewish those are the options in new jersey
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Track 2: that's like when i grow up that's that's what it was like you're a catholic
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Track 2: or you're jewish that was the option um and i'm like no no ward they didn't
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Track 2: have kids no they didn't that wasn't a thing,
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Track 2: It was like, that was like the thing you knew. They didn't have kids.
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Track 2: I think they talk about that.
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Track 3: But people got secrets.
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Track 2: I think he might've been like, yeah, yeah. They're all the same.
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Track 2: Protestants, they get married.
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Track 2: Pastors get married. They have kids. I really think he might've like,
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Track 2: I don't know. I think he might've missed a detail or something.
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Track 2: Anyway, I do think that Father Judd is a more,
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Track 2: he was a more engaging character than the
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Track 2: uh main character in and we had a more like immediate connection he was presented
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Track 2: as a more immediate connection than in the second movie because the way the
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Track 2: second movie is the structure of the second movie just didn't lend itself to that in the same way.
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Track 3: Yeah i like how you said like i mean slow burn i mean benoit
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Track 3: blanc doesn't walk in until fucking 40 minutes in like
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Track 3: it's fantastic intro too by the way um but
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Track 3: yeah no father judd like yeah just such an engaging
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Track 3: character because i mean like you get like the liberal idealized version of
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Track 3: like what everybody hopes of a religious figure you know you get that but also
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Track 3: like he also gives very just real reactions that the audience would be giving
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Track 3: in those moments too and that just builds that uh relatability yeah.
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Track 1: And for those for like this is like a very brief sort of sketching of the plot
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Track 1: is like josh o'connor plays a judge as pastor and he's essentially given or
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Track 1: sent to this town in upstate new york to.
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Track 3: Be sent what he said he's exiled.
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Track 1: Yeah exiled yes he.
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Track 3: Also broke another priest's jaw yeah but.
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Track 1: To be fair they like they're like yeah you he deserved to have his jaw broken.
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Track 3: So funny it's so funny and everyone knows he was sent out.
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Track 1: There and he's essentially now going to become uh josh brolin who's the monsaint my,
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Track 1: How do I pronounce it? Monsignor. Monsignor.
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Track 3: Monsignor.
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Track 1: Monsignor. Monsignor of this other church. And immediately when he gets there,
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Track 1: Josh Brolin, like, doesn't want him there.
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Track 1: You're kind of, just like with the other films, you're sort of introduced to
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Track 1: other characters sort of in this kind of playful way.
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Track 1: You get sort of like the caretaker. And it's really what it's doing is unlocking
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Track 1: all the potential murder suspect later on.
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Track 1: You're like, oh, there's the caretaker. And then there's the sort of the main
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Track 1: woman who works there. and this case is played by Glenn Close,
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Track 1: who is awesome in this movie, by the way. So good.
11:30
Track 1: And you then are introduced to sort of the wealthier parishioners who are sort
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Track 1: of the key characters that are sort of like the circle within,
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Track 1: you know, Josh Brolin in it.
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Track 1: And it's sort of the first 50, 40 minutes or so, again, you don't have Benoit Blanc there yet.
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Track 1: And another great thing that I noticed in This is an IMDb was when he's sort
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Track 1: of writing the story and sort of narrating the first 50 minutes,
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Track 1: the moment when he says he's been writing for an hour was actually at the 60-minute
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Track 1: mark of the movie, which I thought was a nice little touch that Johnson likes to do.
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Track 1: So that's basically what kind of unfolds.
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Track 1: You see that Josh Brolin as a priest is extremely, what would be the word I'd use?
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Track 2: Militant.
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Track 1: Militant gruff a dick he's.
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Track 2: Very much a fire and brimstone oh yeah.
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Track 1: Yeah also great in this movie I mean Josh Brolin usually does bring it in everything
12:32
Track 1: but he's very believable yeah.
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Track 3: In a future episode maybe I'll talk shit about Josh Brolin.
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Track 1: Yeah,
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Track 1: Which one?
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Track 3: Hint, hint. I don't tell people. You'd have to be surprised.
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Track 1: Okay.
12:44
Track 3: You got to keep the listeners coming back.
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Track 2: Yeah. People want to come back to hear who Ward's going to talk shit about.
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Track 3: Well, it's Josh Brolin, but they got to come and figure out the circumstances and context, you know?
12:55
Track 1: Because of Glass Onion feeling very much like the sort of MAGA or like Republican
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Track 1: versus liberal, there was a few moments in the first, I don't know,
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Track 1: like 45 minutes or so where I felt like that's where this was going.
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Track 1: where josh brolin is sort of talking shit about like woke and all this kind
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Track 1: of thing and he's just going to be sort of this right-wing person and then you
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Track 1: kind of have the judd as sort of like the liberal you know more open-minded
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Track 1: person but i was surprised to find that it didn't really take that path i don't
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Track 1: know if you thought it did at all.
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Track 3: Or yeah no i had that feeling as well like where i was like oh it's going to
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Track 3: go down like glass onion whereas like this is going to be a reoccurring theme
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Track 3: throughout the whole thing but it yeah no it definitely splits off from that
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Track 3: it just it goes that route to establish characters and then it's like cool you
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Track 3: got it's know who the characters are let's get on with the story yeah.
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Track 2: It's really more i mean.
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Track 3: Which is great the.
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Track 2: Only the only person i mean the only person whose character like continues on
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Track 2: that is Cy Draven, Kerry Washington, Vera Draven's supposed brother.
14:04
Track 2: I'm sorry, no.
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Track 3: He's supposed illegitimate brother.
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Track 2: Yeah. Presented originally as son before it is revealed that he's actually her brother.
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Track 3: Monsignor Wick's son.
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Track 2: Which is fucked up.
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Track 3: Yeah, crazy.
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Track 2: Vera Draven's story is sad. Her story is definitely the saddest.
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Track 2: um so sad yeah um size story he's a real piece of shit god he's a piece of shit
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Track 2: anybody else think that does anybody else think that he looks like uh zachary levi oh.
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Track 1: No that's that's actually a really mean thing to say,
14:42
Track 1: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
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Track 2: I don't know why he looks like Zachary Levi to me, which really kind of like
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Track 2: drove it home because like Zachary Levi turned out to be a fucking MAGA lunatic.
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Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I mean, a little, a little bit, I'd say, yeah,
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Track 1: I'm just saying like, it's, it's unfortunate in comparison to.
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Track 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, these things, you know, it's, it's unfortunate,
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Track 2: but you know, we can't, you know, I'm not, listen, Zachary Levi's opinions have
15:13
Track 2: no bearing on his physical appearance.
15:15
Track 2: no no no no um it's
15:19
Track 2: just a funny irony um yeah other
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Track 2: than cy draven none of the characters really continue
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Track 2: down that route but i think
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Track 2: it's actually like an important aspect of the movie that he does and that we
15:34
Track 2: keep coming back to the intertwined nature of christophascism and the Because
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Track 2: really what this movie is not about MAGA versus liberal,
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Track 2: it is about power and the pursuit of power and control.
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Track 2: And that's really what it's about. And how Christianity in the United States,
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Track 2: Christofascism has been so tied to the capitalist system and how it is,
16:07
Track 2: the two go hand in hand and they're integrally linked.
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Track 1: And yeah yeah i mean i think it definitely hits on that christo fascism thing but it also,
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Track 1: goes i think similar to the first film the first knives out one where you kind of have,
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Track 1: you don't get maybe as deep character development as you do in this one which
16:28
Track 1: is what made it so much better it was a little bit longer they had more time
16:31
Track 1: but you also have a lot of this idea around sort of the dogma in religion.
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Track 1: And I mean, again, I say this not as a Christian or even really a religious
16:41
Track 1: person at all, but there's lots of these aspects that they tried to drill into
16:46
Track 1: of, you know, can you be, like, can't someone be saved? Like,
16:50
Track 1: even if you're in this...
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Track 1: You get dragged into this sort of, uh, Christian, you know, grim and doomstone
17:00
Track 1: and gloom and whatever sort of church.
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Track 1: Can you still actually find salvation? Like, you know, you have the,
17:06
Track 1: what's the, the girl's name who played by Kaylee Spaney, Simone.
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Track 1: Yeah. I think that's her name. She, who also is in one of our favorites, uh, the, yes.
17:17
Track 1: But in this, she plays a celloist who like has an injury and can't play.
17:23
Track 1: anymore and is like throwing her money at
17:26
Track 1: josh brolin to try and like heal her because she's sort of been convinced into
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Track 1: this idea and then you know in the end as a spoiler she sort of becomes he can't
17:37
Track 1: help her but she's able to help herself through sort of this personal salvation
17:42
Track 1: and faith and all these things so i don't know exactly what i'm trying to say other than that just,
17:47
Track 1: people getting sucked into these religious cults and then realizing that the
17:53
Track 1: only way to actually make change is through you know connecting with your fellow
17:57
Track 1: people in like a normal way yeah.
18:00
Track 2: She was the most i felt she was the most interesting character in terms of her
18:04
Track 2: relationship with the church it was purely transactional in a lot of ways but
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Track 2: at the same time she was the least like.
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Track 1: She wasn't a bad person really she.
18:17
Track 2: Was the most genuine
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Track 2: in the end and the one person who seemed
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Track 2: to be the most like you know willing to like you know come to terms with like
18:29
Track 2: actual like you know the reality of things and like accept things for what it
18:34
Track 2: is and like you know be you know come to terms with things she was outside of,
18:42
Track 2: uh the groundskeeper who actually was the least like i felt bad for his character yeah.
18:50
Track 3: He was good he was actually a pretty good guy yeah.
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Track 1: And like the one too like glenn close's character who's sort of like the caretaker
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Track 1: of the church and does all the organizing sort of you know within.
19:01
Track 3: It i clocked her from being a dick from the minute like jump
19:05
Track 3: street i had it in my fucking notes like early on like from the first flashback
19:09
Track 3: scene i was like that's definitely not what she said to that lady that's not
19:13
Track 3: what she said that is not what she said at all no like i was like i don't know
19:18
Track 3: if i'll find out what she said but that's not what she said yeah.
19:22
Track 1: Oh the little when she tells the story of you know how.
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Track 3: The the woman.
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Track 1: Died the previous yeah that didn't seem but like in some ways like with her
19:32
Track 1: character is she doesn't really change as a person for the most part.
19:38
Track 1: And, you know, her only decision to sort of show and admit to what she does
19:42
Track 1: is, you know, her commitment to the church and her faith, but she's pretty terrible person too.
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Track 3: I mean, even then at the very end, she's still in a form of denial where she
19:54
Track 3: was like, I was the good one. I was the faithful one.
19:58
Track 3: It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Those aren't the same thing.
20:02
Track 2: Yeah, she is very much presented as the symbolic representation of the way people
20:14
Track 2: use religion as a means of justifying their actions,
20:20
Track 2: but also filling a hole within themselves and then giving themselves permission
20:26
Track 2: to do things because it serves some other purpose.
20:31
Track 2: which they have also perverted to fit their own narrative, you know,
20:38
Track 2: in the end, like it's, it's an Ouroboros of justification and, you know,
20:46
Track 2: faith and the two things, like they just constantly feed each other until it
20:51
Track 2: becomes this monster that can be used to justify anything.
20:58
Track 2: Because in the end, the only justification, the only thing you're actually seeking
21:04
Track 2: is validation for your own selfish desires.
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Track 1: Do you think that's the same case with Josh Brolin as the main priest is that
21:14
Track 1: he justifies everything he's doing?
21:18
Track 1: for the church but he's also doing it simply because he wants the the money
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Track 1: sort of the the buried treasure if you will that was sort of he never was able to get.
21:30
Track 3: I think in the beginning i think
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Track 3: it's like when we get
21:35
Track 3: his first confession and it's like oh it's his first punch and
21:38
Track 3: he's all talking about masturbating and all that shit like yeah
21:41
Track 3: that reveals gets revealed to be a lie but
21:45
Track 3: i think he's honest when he was like i was
21:48
Track 3: envious of other people's powers i saw my grandfather's power as a priest and
21:52
Track 3: i envied that yeah and i think he was being truthful when he said that one yeah
21:57
Track 3: i think like yeah the lexus who gives a fuck masturbating yeah he's lying um
22:03
Track 3: but that one like that one was truthful and it shows in his character because.
22:07
Track 2: That the The fact that he, in the end, when presented with the opportunity to
22:13
Track 2: have that money, that's still power.
22:15
Track 2: That's what that is. And that power, and the ability to get that,
22:22
Track 2: was served up to him by Cy, hand in hand with political power.
22:29
Track 2: That was his entire goal. He wanted to be a demagogue.
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Track 3: Yeah, and if he wanted the money, how many years was he running at that church?
22:37
Track 3: he couldn't figure it out sooner it wasn't until his congregation had whittled
22:43
Track 3: down to like a core incestuous group and then he gets like to the point where
22:50
Track 3: like oh i finally figured it
22:51
Track 3: out and then now i got another outlet he's got a way out like no no it's,
22:56
Track 3: Yeah. He wanted the power of the position.
22:59
Track 1: Yeah.
23:00
Track 3: Justifies it all through faith.
23:01
Track 1: Well, it's interesting later too, because the, the side character who is again,
23:07
Track 1: Kerry Washington, you're led to believe it's Kerry Washington's, you know,
23:11
Track 1: son, no, he said stepbrother, illegitimate, illegitimate brother, illegitimate brother.
23:17
Track 1: And then later we find out what she is, but his character is, I found both extreme.
23:23
Track 1: Well, I found him pretty terrible generally as a, person but he's like recording.
23:27
Track 3: Everything you're supposed to yeah he's like a.
23:29
Track 1: Youtube youtuber i thought like the scene where he's go he rattles off all the
23:34
Track 1: things he tried to do to like.
23:35
Track 3: Become so funny i was about to say we
23:38
Track 3: got to mention that it's so funny to find the entire list
23:41
Track 3: yeah we can clip it in or we can find the entire list
23:44
Track 3: but it's so funny how he's like i tried i tried i
23:47
Track 3: tried hammering the race thing i tried hammering the trains thing i tried this
23:51
Track 3: thing it just keeps listing literally like almost everything off that you could
23:56
Track 3: list and then uh yeah then he has the fucking great little fucking line when
24:01
Track 3: a father just like how about we just get back to like the essentials i.
24:05
Track 1: Got the i got the full thing so he goes i tried everything believe me i hammered
24:09
Track 1: the race thing i hammered the gender thing the trans thing the border thing
24:12
Track 1: the homeless thing the war thing the election thing the abortion thing the climate
24:15
Track 1: thing and above things about induction stoves, Israel,
24:18
Track 1: library books, vaccines, pronouts, AK-47, socialism, BLM, CRT,
24:23
Track 1: the CDC, DEI, 5G, everything. All I did. Nothing. Nobody.
24:28
Track 1: People are just numb these days.
24:31
Track 1: And it's like both sort of telling, but also sort of telling about like the
24:35
Track 1: Republican Party and also, I guess, just political parties in general,
24:38
Track 1: but also just that people are tired of this shit too in like actual reality.
24:43
Track 1: People are tired of race wars and oh, like everything is they're gonna kill
24:47
Track 1: me it's like no we just want to fucking you know have money to buy things to,
24:51
Track 1: do stuff and live.
24:53
Track 3: Yeah i like what he follows up with when father like
24:56
Track 3: after he tells father judd that and he's like oh let's how about we
24:58
Track 3: just get back to like the essentials of connecting to with people and
25:02
Track 3: size like like showing some uh showing something
25:05
Track 3: they hate and making them think it's coming for something they love oh
25:08
Track 3: it's so dark and it's there's something something like that
25:11
Track 3: it's so dark but it's so true for how the republican party and political parties
25:16
Track 3: in america operate and how and like sigh as much of a shitheel fucking idiot
25:23
Track 3: as we may think he is at least understands that oh yeah yeah he understands it well.
25:28
Track 1: I think i mean that's the same way that most politicians you know senators both
25:32
Track 1: aisles they know everything they do is so calculated they know the messages
25:37
Track 1: they're using and what their appeal is and how they are working all of these
25:41
Track 1: things they're not they're not stupid they're you know they're idiots but they're not stupid.
25:47
Track 1: Um, a couple of the other characters we didn't talk about.
25:50
Track 1: One was the, um, the author played by Andrew Scott, who also is funny because
25:57
Track 1: Andrew Scott was in, have you ever seen the show Fleabag?
26:00
Track 2: Yeah, I did not put, I didn't recognize him as the hot priest.
26:04
Track 1: So in Fleabag, he plays like a priest who is, I won't give anything away,
26:11
Track 1: but he plays like a hot priest. That's basically.
26:13
Track 2: Yeah.
26:14
Track 1: That's his character in that. Which everyone should go watch Fleabag.
26:18
Track 2: Yeah, you should watch Fleabag.
26:19
Track 1: There's like only like maybe can't be more than 20 episodes total of that show.
26:23
Track 1: Well worth it. But he's sort of like this former bestselling author.
26:26
Track 1: I don't know who exactly maybe they're going for a sort of his one-to-one comparison.
26:31
Track 1: And I mean, he's not as famous as Stephen King, so it's not really that level.
26:35
Track 1: It's sort of like, I don't know.
26:37
Track 2: I think it might be Orson Scott Card.
26:39
Track 1: Oh, okay.
26:41
Track 2: I have a feeling it's Orson Scott Card because the fact that like the way it's
26:47
Track 2: laid out is that like he was a super successful sci-fi writer who then came out as a far right crank.
26:59
Track 1: He's the one who did like Ender's Game.
27:00
Track 2: Right? Scott Card wrote Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, and then,
27:06
Track 2: you know, within the—I don't remember when exactly.
27:10
Track 2: I think it was, like, the first, like, Prop 8 debate, and then it came out that,
27:17
Track 2: like, Orson Scott Card was a raging homophobe and, you know,
27:21
Track 2: just generally a shitty person.
27:26
Track 2: Yeah. I have a feeling it might be worse than Scott Card, but—,
27:30
Track 2: It could also have been Robert Heinlein,
27:35
Track 2: who was not ever a liberal, but was an incredibly successful and famous sci-fi writer,
27:46
Track 2: but also a fucking douchebag.
27:52
Track 2: and very vocal about his libertarian conservative ideals and ideas and so.
28:01
Track 1: On better hope this doesn't get on the uh the hindline reddit because i've encountered
28:05
Track 1: people when i talk about like starship troopers the book versus starship troopers
28:09
Track 1: the movie and it's not a fun experience dealing with those idiots i.
28:13
Track 3: Love that you'll never let that go like.
28:14
Track 1: That is.
28:15
Track 3: You're like your forever eternal internet beef is just arguing with motherfuckers
28:23
Track 3: about starship troopers i love it so much for you.
28:26
Track 1: You know it really is my roman empire it's.
28:30
Track 3: Fantastic i love it i love hearing about it every so often.
28:33
Track 1: Yeah so what are the other what other ones did we not mention i feel like there's
28:37
Track 1: one of the i guess it's the germy.
28:39
Track 2: Renner's character is kind of.
28:41
Track 1: Yes who plays like Yeah, he plays a local doctor, and his wife leaves him, and he's depressed.
28:48
Track 1: His wife left him for someone she met on a fish message board,
28:51
Track 1: which I think is also really funny.
28:52
Track 3: So funny. It's so funny.
28:54
Track 2: I'm so curious. It was just like we are introduced to him as he is the local
29:00
Track 2: doctor, and he is the wife guy.
29:02
Track 2: Absolutely, utterly devoted to his wife.
29:05
Track 2: Like fucking like 10 minutes later, wife leaves him. There is no buildup to
29:10
Track 2: that at all. It's just...
29:12
Track 2: his life bottoms out like just fucking bottoms out.
29:16
Track 1: And you see him drinking or drunk and like pretty much every scene in the movie
29:21
Track 1: for the most part actively.
29:22
Track 3: Drinking in church yeah.
29:23
Track 1: Yeah yes and yeah then i think that's the there are like there's some like side
29:28
Track 1: characters i guess there's mila kunis who plays like the local police chief
29:32
Track 1: who i thought was like only okay in this movie i don't know there are some people
29:36
Track 1: i saw online said that she was miscast there's.
29:38
Track 2: So much debate about Mila Kulis' character in this movie.
29:42
Track 3: She was okay. There's like a couple moments where I'm like, she did alright there.
29:47
Track 1: She's also a rape apologist.
29:49
Track 2: Listen, I honestly, I...
29:51
Track 2: You're right. She is. She's also a massive Zionist. But like,
29:55
Track 2: and I honestly, I, I think that if it wasn't for those things,
29:59
Track 2: no one would have, they wouldn't say fucking word about her in this movie.
30:02
Track 2: Because frankly, like, let's be honest, like her role really didn't really need much.
30:10
Track 3: Like, no, it was fine.
30:12
Track 2: She didn't bring anything to the table because honestly, it wasn't necessary.
30:18
Track 2: that's like being like she was miscast that
30:22
Track 2: was that's like saying like you know like you know you brought
30:25
Track 2: a pickup truck to lowe's to like load stuff up
30:28
Track 2: and it was like it's like yeah that that's literally that's all we needed
30:30
Track 2: we didn't need anything else like yeah we weren't
30:34
Track 2: asking for much like you didn't need much here like i do
30:38
Track 2: think she looked she she looked out of
30:41
Track 2: place I do think that's the only way
30:44
Track 2: you could say she was miscast she looked out of place she did not look like
30:49
Track 2: a small town Hudson like River Valley like upstate New York like sheriff in
30:57
Track 2: the middle of nowhere she looked that's how I felt totally out of place I didn't think that she.
31:01
Track 1: Was like the wrong person I just think that she needed to be somebody else like you know.
31:06
Track 2: Literally anybody fucking me I could have the bar wasn't high yeah I could have
31:12
Track 2: acted that role like it's not like well.
31:16
Track 1: Lindsay Lohan was originally in talks to play that role.
31:19
Track 2: Get the fuck out of here.
31:21
Track 1: And Tom Hardy was supposed to play the Jeremy Renner character,
31:24
Track 1: but they both didn't, probably wanted too much money. Who knows?
31:27
Track 1: I couldn't find anything as to why they didn't do it, but.
31:30
Track 2: Lindsay Lohan? Like, how is that?
31:33
Track 3: Who?
31:34
Track 2: Was this a Rian Johnson-like call?
31:37
Track 3: Dude, this.
31:37
Track 1: I don't know.
31:38
Track 3: This is fucking Netflix IP now, man.
31:40
Track 2: Well, yeah, because Lindsay Lohan's in, she's in the Netflix stable.
31:43
Track 1: She is.
31:43
Track 2: She is in the Netflix stable.
31:45
Track 1: Anyone else, I guess you also have, what's his name? Thomas Hayden Church is
31:50
Track 1: sort of like the groundskeeper guy who does also come to play into it.
31:54
Track 1: You don't really learn much a whole much about him. I just like him.
31:57
Track 1: He's a, you know, he's nice.
32:00
Track 2: But I love, I love Thomas.
32:02
Track 1: Oh, you do like him. I was like, why? What did he do to you?
32:05
Track 2: Nothing. It goes back to my childhood of watching wings and he was in wings
32:09
Track 2: and I liked wings. That's right. As a child.
32:13
Track 1: He was just he's like a he's a lot of like small parts in movies too just like
32:18
Track 1: they always are pretty good you know i don't know i just i.
32:21
Track 2: Like like sideways.
32:22
Track 1: Yeah sideways i'm trying to think of other ones he was like he was in one of
32:25
Track 1: the spider-man movie spider-man 2 uh he.
32:28
Track 2: Was salmon was that spider-man 2 i think it was spider-man 2 i.
32:31
Track 1: Think so no three three that's three he was in spanglish too i don't remember
32:35
Track 1: what he played in that too i've never like thinking that like that era like
32:39
Track 1: the early 2000s was like his sort of moment he's a lot of we're now gonna anyway the.
32:44
Track 2: Rest of this episode is now gonna be about how evan has watched spanglish and spanglish too yeah.
32:50
Track 1: Is there a thing is too don't act like.
32:53
Track 3: You haven't watched it now.
32:54
Track 1: I guess we haven't even really talked about benoit blanc played by daniel craig
32:58
Track 1: sort of like the title character we've been.
33:02
Track 3: Jumping around all over the place on this one.
33:04
Track 1: Well i mean it's going to all the different characters but like he is
33:08
Track 1: in the first one he's sort of you're you're led
33:11
Track 1: to like the part of the mystery is like who hired him to
33:14
Track 1: come to be the detective and the
33:17
Track 1: second one it's also sort of like who we don't know immediately who comes why
33:21
Track 1: he's brought out there but then you learn that it's actually ed norton who wants
33:24
Track 1: him to you know solve the mystery like that's he wants him to be there to do
33:29
Track 1: it and he solves it like in two seconds which is the funniest part of that movie
33:32
Track 1: And then this one, it's, you know,
33:35
Track 1: also clear why they need him, but he doesn't show up till what, like minute 45,
33:42
Track 1: give or take, or I don't know, something like that.
33:44
Track 1: And he just does not fail to disappoint.
33:47
Track 1: And honestly, I saw someone posting that like, he's better in this role than he was as James Bond.
33:53
Track 2: A hundred percent.
33:54
Track 1: And I think it's hard to argue that that's not the case. I love Casino Royale,
33:58
Track 1: but I could just leave the rest of the franchise that he's in.
34:01
Track 1: These movies are just fun. He's great.
34:03
Track 3: He's so good.
34:04
Track 2: There is a reason why he has said he will play Benoit Blanc for as long as they're
34:09
Track 2: willing to make these movies.
34:11
Track 2: And it is clear that he, and like, it makes a difference when you are watching
34:16
Track 2: a movie and an actor, like they, you could tell they fucking love the role they're
34:20
Track 2: in. They love the character that they're playing.
34:24
Track 2: And it's like, he is so perfect as Benoit Blanc. And it is amazing.
34:31
Track 3: It really is.
34:31
Track 2: It is in every way he breathes life into this character that when he is put
34:38
Track 2: in a scene with another character or another actor and they do not.
34:42
Track 2: Honestly, I think that's why, because the majority of Mila Kunis is like...
34:48
Track 2: scenes in this movie are alongside him and judd and yeah she's gonna look bad in comparison,
34:56
Track 2: she's gonna look bad how are you gonna like it's
35:00
Track 2: true the actor who plays father judd is he's
35:04
Track 2: he's great and he's like he just worms
35:07
Track 2: his way into your little heart and he just
35:10
Track 2: like really does you want to you just want to hold him
35:13
Track 2: the sweet little boy you murdered a man but sweet little
35:16
Track 2: boy um not months in your wicks and
35:19
Track 2: then you got daniel craig is benoit blanc and it's like yeah every anybody's
35:23
Track 2: gonna look bad in comparison to that he yeah this man is where was he born he
35:29
Track 2: was born in chester cheshire england and you nah he just he's benoit blanc like with that,
35:39
Track 2: i don't like is that new orleans is that a new orleans accent i wonder i think it's new orleans I.
35:45
Track 3: Want to say it's like a...
35:46
Track 1: Do they ever say? I don't know if they ever say what it is.
35:48
Track 2: It might not just be New Orleans. It might just be Louisiana.
35:52
Track 3: Yeah, like a French Creole.
35:53
Track 2: But it's that so soft and kind of like real, like round, and he does it perfectly,
35:58
Track 2: and he just brings it to life.
35:59
Track 2: Yeah, anybody's going to look bad in comparison, and like...
36:03
Track 2: He just does not fail to impress whenever he shows up.
36:08
Track 2: And it's wonderful seeing somebody like, it is wonderful seeing somebody enjoying
36:13
Track 2: their craft. And he really does.
36:15
Track 1: I mean, for just generally about Daniel Craig, like he was in a lot of,
36:21
Track 1: before the period when he was doing the James Bond, he was in a lot of more interesting roles.
36:29
Track 1: And it's nice to see him do one again and one that's interesting.
36:33
Track 2: I just learned that he's married to Rachel Weisz, which...
36:38
Track 1: Oh, I didn't realize that.
36:39
Track 3: Oh, man. Okay. Okay.
36:42
Track 2: Go on, King? All right.
36:44
Track 3: Yeah.
36:45
Track 2: I wasn't familiar with your game.
36:48
Track 3: I wasn't familiar with your game.
36:50
Track 2: I wasn't familiar with your game. Yes, exactly.
36:54
Track 3: Damn.
36:55
Track 1: I'd recommend the movie also. Have you seen the movie Layer Cake that Daniel Craig is in?
36:59
Track 2: Excuse me, we're talking Rachel Weisz right now.
37:01
Track 1: Okay, I'm sorry. I apologize.
37:03
Track 3: Yeah, why would you change topics? This is now a Rachel Weisz podcast.
37:06
Track 2: My childhood crush.
37:08
Track 1: The mummy.
37:09
Track 2: Yeah. We're going to- Yeah.
37:10
Track 3: Me and my wife's childhood crush.
37:12
Track 1: They're making a mummy return.
37:15
Track 2: Yes.
37:15
Track 1: Not the name, just like a reboot.
37:18
Track 3: They're returning to the mummy.
37:20
Track 1: I think it's called Mummy 4, loosely. I don't know what that is.
37:23
Track 1: That's the case. We should really do the mummy. Actually. That's all that'll
37:27
Track 1: be a, or maybe just the whole sequel. I haven't seen the third ones.
37:30
Track 1: Then they came out, but the first two.
37:32
Track 2: Oh my God.
37:33
Track 3: I mean, like how you're saying, like how Benoit Blanc was like kind of different
37:38
Track 3: in like this one compared to the other ones.
37:40
Track 3: I mean, like he does have like the road to Damascus.
37:43
Track 3: We're super obvious too, but like this one, he's, I feel like he's less matter
37:48
Track 3: of fact and just like, you know what?
37:51
Track 3: I'm doing shit for the plot. this is fun
37:54
Track 3: like nat could have been alive yeah
37:58
Track 3: i mean he you know what i mean he was planning
38:01
Track 3: to intervene on that but like got held up and was like being dramatic and then
38:05
Track 3: ran into jud too but like he definitely understood what was happening he could
38:10
Track 3: have saved nat i mean he could have made sure that martha at the end got medical
38:16
Track 3: treatment as soon as he was aware but,
38:19
Track 3: nah let's let this ride for a bit it's going to be dramatic he.
38:24
Track 1: Hides the jewel.
38:24
Track 3: Yeah he does that he's like oh yeah i don't know what happened to it nothing
38:28
Track 3: untoward happened i was there i.
38:31
Track 2: I i i wouldn't know i wouldn't i wouldn't presume to know what happened to the jewel.
38:37
Track 3: Yeah and like he's just a shitster this whole movie and i love it so much that.
38:43
Track 2: It reminds me of like you know i saw somebody was like they were it was like
38:46
Track 2: i'm friends or something it's Like, does ACAB include Benoit Blanc? And it's like, no.
38:50
Track 2: Because he's not a cop, number one. And like all of this really does,
38:56
Track 2: like what Ward just laid out really does. Like he is just a guy.
39:01
Track 2: Like he has one loyalty and it ain't a property.
39:07
Track 2: And it's not even to money.
39:09
Track 1: Really.
39:10
Track 2: No, not at all.
39:10
Track 1: I don't even think it's not really a money thing.
39:13
Track 3: No, it's not the money.
39:13
Track 2: It is 100% the truth. that's it and.
39:17
Track 1: Just like i think it's also the thrill.
39:19
Track 2: Yeah like in this yeah.
39:20
Track 3: It's very we find out in this one even more so it's the thrill in this movie
39:25
Track 3: compared to the truth in the last couple movies he's really just like.
39:30
Track 2: Let's let's see how this thing i don't think it's
39:33
Track 2: the thrill it is or
39:36
Track 2: if it is it's the thrill of exposing
39:40
Track 2: liars and duplicity which is
39:43
Track 2: really outlined it's not just
39:46
Track 2: the thrill it's because it's not an adrenaline thing it is
39:49
Track 2: like he really he isn't a
39:52
Track 2: cop because he his devotion is to not just is to actual justice and actual exposing
40:00
Track 2: which is made infinitely clear in this as composed compared to the first the
40:04
Track 2: first two movies when he walks in and he the first time he shows up it is like he.
40:10
Track 2: This movie introduces Benoit Blanc as a character.
40:15
Track 2: Like, we've seen two movies of him, but this movie is the one where you learn
40:19
Track 2: his motivations as a character.
40:23
Track 2: This is where you learn when he shows up in that church and Judd says,
40:30
Track 2: How does it all make you feel?
40:32
Track 2: And Blanc goes, How does it make me feel? Truthfully? Judd, sure.
40:36
Track 2: Well, the architecture, that interests me. I feel the grandeur,
40:40
Track 2: the mystery, the intended emotional effect.
40:44
Track 2: It's, and it's like someone has shown a story at me that I do not believe.
40:48
Track 2: It's built upon the empty promise of a child's fairy tale filled with malevolence
40:53
Track 2: and misogyny and homophobia and is justified untold acts of violence and cruelty
40:59
Track 2: while all the while and still hiding its own shameful acts.
41:03
Track 2: So like an ornery mule kicking back, I want to pick apart, pick it apart and
41:07
Track 2: pop its perfidious bubble of belief and get to a truth I can swallow without choking.
41:13
Track 2: That is Benoit Blanc.
41:15
Track 2: That is Benoit Blanc. Like that is three movies in we learn his like real who
41:22
Track 2: he is as character and this is it right here.
41:25
Track 2: He does not serve capital. He does not serve anything but showing the truth
41:31
Track 2: and God have I never identified with the character more so than in that moment when someone goes.
41:37
Track 2: Even the dismissal of the architecture, people was like, but don't you think
41:41
Track 2: the buildings are beautiful?
41:42
Track 2: No, I don't. I don't fucking care about your gothic architecture.
41:47
Track 2: No, I don't think they're pretty.
41:49
Track 2: I don't care. You're not special because you built fancy buildings.
41:54
Track 2: Shut the fuck up. I don't care.
41:58
Track 2: It's all tainted by the ignominity of your morale, your depravity.
42:06
Track 2: It's all tainted by that. I do not care.
42:09
Track 2: Take your rafters and shove them up your ass.
42:11
Track 3: Cool that you built that, but where the children fell.
42:14
Track 2: Yeah.
42:16
Track 1: Do you think that he views, you could almost view the, through Benoit Blank's,
42:23
Track 1: maybe like through our eyes too, is that the church is almost like, sort of like cops.
42:29
Track 1: In the sense that like, yes, there's like lots of bad cops, but like,
42:33
Track 1: okay, Judd is like the good priest.
42:35
Track 1: Like he does try and do good. But that doesn't really matter as he sits in the
42:40
Track 1: infrastructure of this giant evil sort of thing that preys on children and all
42:46
Track 1: the awful atrocities and murders and everything they've done. I don't know.
42:50
Track 2: I would think so. I think he – because it seems like it sounds like almost like he pities Judd.
42:55
Track 1: Yeah, a little bit.
42:56
Track 2: And it's not like at the end where he's like – when Judd's like,
42:58
Track 2: I'm going to have a mess. He's like, yeah, I'll sit because you're there.
43:01
Track 2: He's like, no, I'm fucking leaving.
43:03
Track 2: No, I don't want to do that.
43:05
Track 1: Yeah and and what's what's amazing about him too
43:08
Track 1: and i in this movie more than the
43:11
Track 1: other two he's or maybe actually is similar
43:14
Track 1: to the second glass onion is he seems like he's mostly figured
43:17
Track 1: out what's happened like instantly like it doesn't take him long to figure out
43:22
Track 1: for the like most of what's going on he still has like uncovered little bits
43:26
Track 1: and he's using judd to help him get there he doesn't do a lot of like detective
43:31
Track 1: work or police work in this like he's just really smart and is able to deduce, you know,
43:37
Track 1: things about people really well.
43:39
Track 3: Yeah, it's pretty nice. It's definitely very enjoyable compared to,
43:44
Track 3: like, what we get with, like, a lot of detective things, which fucking,
43:47
Track 3: like, God, how much Sherlock Holmes shit there is.
43:50
Track 3: And, like, it always goes so over the top. It's like, well, I know because of
43:53
Track 3: this detail plus this, and it means that, and da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
43:57
Track 3: It's like, nah, Benoit's got it figured out. He doesn't need to explain it. We'll see it.
44:02
Track 2: Yeah.
44:03
Track 3: We'll get to this does. We'll go for the big reveal at the end. Enjoy the ride.
44:07
Track 1: I saw some people complaining that the last act was the worst part of the film
44:13
Track 1: for some reason, because like the way that they reveal everything is like not good.
44:19
Track 1: Like it's too. I don't know. Like in all the movies, there's like the big sort
44:22
Track 1: of telling of the reveal kind.
44:24
Track 3: Of spoon feeding. Maybe that's just kind of how a big reveal who done it works.
44:31
Track 1: I mean, if anything.
44:32
Track 3: What?
44:33
Track 1: If anything, I would argue more so that the first third is the weakest part
44:37
Track 1: of the film, even though it's extremely important to the rest of it. I'm not saying that.
44:42
Track 3: I like the first third.
44:42
Track 1: You could argue, perhaps, that the first third is the weakest part.
44:47
Track 1: Not the last third. That's just foolishness.
44:49
Track 3: I like the first third. I suspended my Marxism for a little bit and just reveled
44:54
Track 3: in the liberal idealism with the religion that I was being at plate with Judd.
44:59
Track 2: See, that's— Okay.
45:00
Track 3: Did I break it, Bill? No. It's like when I watch The Martian,
45:05
Track 3: you know, the liberal optimism really gets to me.
45:09
Track 2: I find the nature of church or religious institutions,
45:18
Track 2: like, from our perspective, like,
45:25
Track 2: under the purview of this podcast, you know, talk about, you know,
45:28
Track 2: movies from a leftist perspective or Marxist perspective, you know,
45:32
Track 2: like, really the only thing to really talk about in this movie is the way in
45:37
Track 2: which we're going to talk about.
45:38
Track 2: religion serves capital specifically Christianity and like it really like,
45:46
Track 2: always strikes me because, and I'm going to, I'm going to reveal something here.
45:50
Track 2: Now, I am an atheist, have always, have been an atheist, like,
45:56
Track 2: you know, for a very, for most of my life.
46:00
Track 2: But I, I went to, and my mother taught at a Catholic school.
46:05
Track 2: Um, and I went to CCD at said Catholic school, um, which for those of you who
46:12
Track 2: are not Catholic, CCD is like Sunday school for, for Catholics.
46:16
Track 2: Um, they did not like me. Um, I was in trouble a lot.
46:21
Track 2: Um, but there was always, there was a time in life in which I wanted to be basically
46:30
Track 2: like a pastor or a priest,
46:33
Track 2: because to me, what I had been told is that they served people and that they, they,
46:40
Track 2: they, they acted as like, you know, a servant to the community.
46:44
Track 2: and like to me as like a young person
46:47
Track 2: who was very much like you know before i
46:51
Track 2: knew what those words were like basically a
46:54
Track 2: communist you know like i was a kid that wanted to
46:56
Track 2: to help people and i was like okay so you you're
46:59
Track 2: you're a priest and you like the church like gives you
47:02
Track 2: a house and like they like feed you and shit and
47:05
Track 2: then you just like help people i'm like that sounds like the
47:08
Track 2: greatest job in the fucking world i'm like
47:11
Track 2: you could just do that i'm like if we could just do
47:14
Track 2: that without the religion i'm down for it let's do it give
47:17
Track 2: me a house and like you know like i'm like you know i don't know like i'm a
47:22
Track 2: paycheck and i you know i could get fed i could just like help people just like
47:25
Track 2: just people could just come to me and talk about their problems and i could
47:28
Track 2: just help them with them like i'd be like sign me the fuck up i'm all for it
47:32
Track 2: and it's like to me watching this,
47:35
Track 2: it's like, it brought all that back because it's like that whole thing has been
47:39
Track 2: so divided by this system and then perverted and isolated and siloed into religion.
47:51
Track 2: And it's like hamstrung it because of that.
47:54
Track 2: And it's like, I can't help but see how capital and Christianity have.
48:02
Track 2: Unified in such a ways to become these powerful entities that twist everything
48:08
Track 2: to keep control like wicks to have that control and then you have people like
48:13
Track 2: father judd who just want to like help people and it's sad.
48:17
Track 3: I know it's fucking sad and i i resonated with
48:20
Track 3: that that's why i was able to like suspend my marxism in
48:23
Track 3: the first third of the movie because like i
48:26
Track 3: grew up in the church in the south so like yeah no
48:29
Track 3: i very much had the same sentiments where it was like oh i
48:32
Track 3: can help people that's what the church does yeah i want
48:35
Track 3: to be a part of that and then you grow up and you're like oh the church doesn't
48:38
Track 3: really be be doing that at all no not a lot no and but yeah no and so that's
48:46
Track 3: like kind of yeah no that's why i enjoyed that uh first third you know just
48:49
Track 3: seeing judd and it's like dude where was that where is that yeah where is that when you need it yeah.
48:55
Track 2: And like i can't help But think that like there is an aspect like that is a
48:59
Track 2: deliberate methodology of the system under which we exist that keeps that siloed
49:05
Track 2: and keeps it in a specific place and then reduced.
49:09
Track 2: And then like, you know, the majority of the people in those systems are still
49:13
Track 2: just looking for power like Wick, which keeps that in like Father Judd,
49:18
Track 2: like the church, it acts as like a pressure release vow.
49:22
Track 2: Like, liberatory theology really, in the end, acts as a pressure-release valve
49:29
Track 2: against actual revolution, in my mind.
49:32
Track 2: The left needs to come to terms with Christianity in a big way.
49:35
Track 1: I see that argument about that a lot, not coming to terms with it,
49:40
Track 1: just the idea that can you do things with religion? Do you have to avoid them?
49:45
Track 1: And then there's just, among all the arguments you see amongst the left,
49:50
Track 1: vaguely terming the left, seems like a divisive one.
49:54
Track 2: There is Ward probably like knows it, but there's a whole, I believe it is Stalin
50:00
Track 2: talking to one of the, I think he was the president.
50:05
Track 2: party leader of it might have been
50:07
Track 2: polling about the their work with the religious leaders in the country.
50:11
Track 3: Yeah i'm looking up something else i mean the one i always like to share in
50:17
Track 3: discords uh to piss off uh hosius was uh when stalin met with hosia and said
50:24
Track 3: uh nah you need to do business more like china no wick's entire.
50:31
Track 2: Fucking confession of bad masturbation was really just something.
50:35
Track 3: Oh my god when he cuts it he's like and then i did that thing with where i hold
50:38
Track 3: my hand upside down like i told you about like and when he reaches.
50:43
Track 1: Out to.
50:43
Track 3: Shake his hand and kind of jarring dude the
50:47
Track 3: i gotta give credit to the sound effects team for making the hand connecting
50:53
Track 3: sound sound wet when that happens watch it back if you didn't catch it it's
50:59
Track 3: a wet hand contact handshake that is happening they did so great with the noise.
51:05
Track 1: You know it's funny i saw people complaining that
51:08
Track 1: the the moment when the when josh
51:11
Track 1: brolin punches him in the like in the stomach they use a stun double for like
51:16
Track 1: that's that moment and it's like it also like as you watch it it actually is
51:20
Track 1: very obvious that it's not him when he's there like the way he sort of turned
51:23
Track 1: and you're like why did he have to do that It was just up getting punched in
51:27
Track 1: the stomach. It's like, well, maybe he didn't want to get punched. I don't know.
51:30
Track 1: Bring it out with Netflix or fucking maybe Josh O'Connor has it. Who fucking cares?
51:34
Track 2: I'm going to actually, we're going to actually talk about that.
51:37
Track 2: That is such a stupid, stupid, out of touch response to something like that.
51:44
Track 2: The possibility of, listen, for those of you who've never been in a fight in
51:50
Track 2: real life, okay, there is the possibility.
51:54
Track 2: You do not understand how quickly your life can go very,
51:59
Track 2: very badly because you hit somebody and they fell down and hit their head in
52:06
Track 2: the wrong spot, in the wrong place, or they fell in the wrong place.
52:12
Track 2: Like, one of the people, the respondents, I saw this, is like,
52:16
Track 2: in the fact that there is a scene, I believe it's Sicario with George Clooney.
52:20
Track 2: George Clooney's in Sicario, right?
52:21
Track 3: No.
52:22
Track 2: That's not Sicario. There's a movie with George Clooney in which he does the
52:26
Track 2: stunt, and it's literally just falling out of a chair, and...
52:30
Track 2: He came like incredibly close to severing his spine.
52:34
Track 2: The human body is incredibly durable until it's not.
52:38
Track 2: And then when it's not, your multimillion dollar movie is now fucked.
52:44
Track 2: So that's why when Josh Brolin, who was a large man, punched Judd,
52:51
Track 2: who was not a large man, they said, let's get in a stunt double.
52:55
Track 2: because they didn't want to have a $150 million movie fucking either scrapped or halted,
53:05
Track 2: because their main actor was now in the hospital or dead.
53:12
Track 3: I mean yeah i mean yeah people freak out like when uh people who like work on
53:17
Track 3: set with fucking tom cruise like hate that he does his own stunts because like
53:21
Track 3: dude if he gets fucking hurt he could be in the hospital for like eight months
53:25
Track 3: to a fucking year and then he did like he could die halo.
53:28
Track 1: Jumps or whatever man like.
53:30
Track 3: Like he could die he could get hurt and then guess what now
53:33
Track 3: they're out of paycheck they're out of work everything gets fucked like
53:36
Track 3: there are many people like even just taking a fall like from that chair like
53:41
Track 3: yeah he smacks his fucking head i mean he's an actor is he trained to take a
53:46
Track 3: fall like that stunt doubles are syriana not sicario like dude oh that's the iraq war.
53:55
Track 2: War or something in which he almost severed his spine doing something really
53:59
Track 2: stupid like really like simple.
54:02
Track 3: I mean yeah something simple like dude from that kind of fall like dude i can
54:06
Track 3: imagine very simply just falling on falling wrong you got to collapse long cool
54:11
Track 3: how long does that haul production he.
54:13
Track 2: Was he was in a chair george colin was in a chair and the this is almost the
54:18
Track 2: same scene he's shooting a scene when someone kicked over the chair he was sitting
54:23
Track 2: in that's crazy tore his dura mater which is the wrap around the spine that
54:27
Track 2: holds in the spinal fluid like that's why they had a stunt stuff.
54:33
Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it's always strikes me too, as just like,
54:38
Track 1: people will get mad at the dumbest things about movies because the internet is a cesspool.
54:46
Track 3: Yeah. Like, aren't you glad it came out now instead of like six months from now?
54:50
Track 2: Yeah.
54:51
Track 3: Why are you mad? This is good. This is a good movie.
54:55
Track 1: Yeah. It's a, it's yeah. It's a, it's funny.
54:58
Track 1: Those are the only real criticisms I could see was like, people were mad about
55:02
Track 1: the, not, I don't know how many people didn't like the last act and they were
55:06
Track 1: annoyed that he didn't do his own stunt. That's like, come on.
55:08
Track 2: And Mila Kunis. They didn't like Mila Kunis.
55:10
Track 3: Like, could they have done better than Mila Kunis? Yeah. But like, come on.
55:15
Track 2: But again.
55:16
Track 3: People don't complain to complain.
55:17
Track 2: She was barely in it. She was barely in it. And it was fine.
55:20
Track 3: Barely in it. The bar was low. She passed it.
55:23
Track 2: Yeah.
55:23
Track 3: What's the problem?
55:24
Track 2: I mean, I don't want to like give away the entire like ending.
55:28
Track 2: I mean, like, you know, I don't want to give the plot, you know, like obviously this is.
55:32
Track 3: Now we're a spoiler podcast, man. Yeah, I know. But like, do it.
55:35
Track 2: I just, you know, like the entire thing is such an interesting,
55:40
Track 2: it was such an interesting exploration of the way in which faith is weaponized by the church,
55:48
Track 2: by the system, and by people, but also internalized against themselves.
55:53
Track 2: You know, it's a very interesting film from that perspective, I thought.
55:57
Track 3: No, absolutely. It really hits on all those aspects. So while I was thinking
56:00
Track 3: about that today, because it's like, you know, just good to see like the aspects
56:03
Track 3: of Christofascism and like how it's weaponized in political forms and like, or just how it's used in.
56:10
Track 3: like close circles is a form of power and control but like with martha like
56:17
Track 3: dude you get to see how it personally affects people.
56:20
Track 2: Yeah and then which they then externalize it and then put it upon other people
56:24
Track 2: and again like and also like specifically you know on people within their own
56:30
Track 2: that that would be within you know like their own community you know like the
56:35
Track 2: fact that martha is a woman and she uses that that patriarchy,
56:40
Track 2: as a means of control and oppression of another woman but.
56:46
Track 1: We haven't like really we don't have to talk deeply about it but like some of
56:50
Track 1: the most of this film was shot on location which so many of the scenes like
56:54
Track 1: in the church with like the light shining in on.
56:57
Track 2: Benoit blanc and.
56:58
Track 1: Like these different things were so good the.
57:00
Track 3: Lighting was so good and so.
57:01
Track 2: Well timed one.
57:02
Track 1: Of the best perfect. But one of the scenes not related to the lighting or any
57:07
Track 1: of that, but that made the film to me so much better is when they're at.
57:12
Track 3: Is it when Jeremy Renner's body slid down the stairs and it goes.
57:15
Track 1: Wait, wait, wait. Why did he get a stunt double to do that? Motherfucking loser.
57:22
Track 1: No, but when they're, when they're at the house and they're kind of,
57:24
Track 1: they like lock themselves into the sort of the, I think they're initially like
57:28
Track 1: lock themselves in the room and they find the, the recording and the video and they watch it.
57:32
Track 1: And then they're trying to investigate the company that comes out and like removes
57:36
Track 1: the stone from the mausoleum.
57:39
Track 1: Like, oh, yeah, the construction company. And he's talking. The judge is talking
57:42
Track 1: to the woman at that company, like the stonemason company on the phone.
57:46
Track 1: And she like starts breaking down because she has like her father is sick and is in hospice.
57:50
Track 1: And like they easily could have made that scene into being sort of like something
57:55
Track 1: jokey or Benoit Blanc says something that's sort of funny or quippy.
57:59
Track 1: But then it turns into like him having like a real long conversation with her
58:04
Track 1: over the phone about like about things that are happening unrelated to like
58:08
Track 1: the plot has nothing to do with it.
58:10
Track 2: Benoit Blanc does have that, but like over time, you actually see he softens
58:16
Track 2: as he, he's still annoyed.
58:18
Track 3: Road to Damascus.
58:20
Track 2: He's still annoyed, but he, he softens as he watches Judd talk to this woman
58:25
Track 2: and he sees Judd for who he is, not as a representative of the church,
58:29
Track 2: but as a man who cares for other people.
58:31
Track 1: Yes.
58:32
Track 3: And that's part of that, uh, liberal idealism I was talking about that I was enjoying earlier.
58:36
Track 2: Yeah. Which, I mean, like, it really, what it boils down to is it's like that
58:40
Track 2: even as an atheist, even as a person, not even, not an atheist,
58:44
Track 2: but as like a person who like fundamentally disagrees with the concept of gods, but also like,
58:50
Track 2: like, let's be real. Like if your God is,
58:54
Track 2: if the christian god is like he's
58:57
Track 2: an asshole i dislike him personally
59:01
Track 2: like he's a bad person
59:04
Track 2: he's a bad thing um but like we have to like at a certain point in human development
59:12
Track 2: in cultural development those people served community and that has actually
59:18
Track 2: been actively taken away from us by this system.
59:25
Track 3: I mean, and I think that scene does a beautiful way of depicting that.
59:30
Track 3: I mean, we've talked about alienation a lot recently on this podcast.
59:34
Track 3: And I mean, that's a good example of it. This woman's working her job.
59:38
Track 3: She's not connected with her
59:40
Track 3: mother who's in hospice. She doesn't seem to have too much other family.
59:43
Track 3: I mean, her brother's out and she's got to reach out and call him.
59:47
Track 3: It's not like she doesn't make it seem like it's an easy thing either to just do that.
59:52
Track 3: um and she just happens to have this priest on the phone and she just reaches
59:58
Track 3: out for some sense of fucking community yeah some sense of humanity just someone
1:00:03
Track 3: to be with her in that moment.
1:00:04
Track 1: Which also shows i mean you don't know how far
1:00:08
Track 1: away this place is but presumably within the ability
1:00:11
Track 1: if this person was interested in being at a church if
1:00:14
Track 1: josh brolin wasn't such a piece of shit and like bad and not interested in actually
1:00:19
Track 1: growing his community this person might actually come to church and like be
1:00:24
Track 1: interested as opposed to him like literally actively trying to make people leave
1:00:28
Track 1: his church i mean granted there was like a scheme happening underlying later on but i.
1:00:33
Track 3: Mean shit we don't even know she could have been one of the people that tried
1:00:36
Track 3: to come to church and then got burned by fucking monsignor wicks for trying
1:00:42
Track 3: to go and then here she is talking to someone who actually seems pretty nice
1:00:46
Track 3: father judd somebody different like okay yeah.
1:00:48
Track 1: Yeah um i'm gonna say yeah i mean i i appreciate too like maybe not like most
1:00:54
Track 1: likely anyone listening has probably already watched the movie but like the
1:00:57
Track 1: ending like going through the floor like breaking out breaking down the entire
1:01:02
Track 1: ending like we don't necessarily have to we already spoil a lot of the things on it but yeah.
1:01:06
Track 3: We spoiled a lot you need to come to this podcast having watched it,
1:01:12
Track 3: unless it explicitly says spoiler-free.
1:01:15
Track 2: You know, a whodunit.
1:01:19
Track 3: Yeah, especially a whodunit.
1:01:22
Track 1: I don't know what else I've got on it. I thought there, I thought,
1:01:26
Track 1: oh, one of my favorite lines, and both my wife and I were laughing hysterically
1:01:30
Track 1: when they said, I don't remember which person said it, but they said that he's
1:01:34
Track 1: young, dumb, and full of Christ.
1:01:36
Track 1: And I thought that was just a fucking banger of a line.
1:01:39
Track 3: Awesome.
1:01:39
Track 1: And the second great one was when they made the joke about, like, Star Wars.
1:01:44
Track 2: Yes.
1:01:45
Track 3: Yes, that was funny. yeah.
1:01:47
Track 1: I understood the assignment to uh to i i know i get it guys i get it.
1:01:51
Track 2: Yeah that was.
1:01:52
Track 3: And i that.
1:01:53
Track 2: Felt like him speaking to you evan and people not understanding starship troopers.
1:02:01
Track 3: I loved uh i love the delivery of glenn close when uh it's like oh yeah the
1:02:06
Track 3: legend of the harlot whore it's like who's that oh which is mother what about
1:02:10
Track 3: her she was a harlot and a more yeah so matter of fact right do it just i mean
1:02:17
Track 3: what more did you expect i.
1:02:20
Track 2: Still want to i,
1:02:22
Track 2: A lot of Catholic priests having kids. And, like, the Wix is one thing,
1:02:26
Track 2: because that was, like, covered up.
1:02:27
Track 2: But, like, the grandfather, that was just, like, out in the open,
1:02:32
Track 2: which felt weird. Like, that was just.
1:02:34
Track 1: Like— They didn't really explain that, did they?
1:02:36
Track 2: No!
1:02:37
Track 3: Yeah, no, that was— Not at all. Yeah, I forgot about that part. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:02:41
Track 3: Yeah, that was just passed off. Yeah, that seemed, like, didn't need to be explained.
1:02:45
Track 3: Like, yeah, just go for it, guys.
1:02:46
Track 3: Yeah, that one didn't really make too sense. Wix is—yeah, that makes more sense
1:02:50
Track 3: because it's secretive and everything. Yeah.
1:02:52
Track 1: They almost make it seem like it's just sort of this thing that happens all
1:02:55
Track 1: the time. And like, we just, we just don't talk about it.
1:02:57
Track 3: Yeah. I mean, they still leave the crucifix off of the church as a reminder of the Harlot Whore.
1:03:05
Track 1: Which then it's like cool at the end when he does replace it.
1:03:08
Track 3: I honestly love that part where it gets brought up because they just say Harlot
1:03:11
Track 3: Whore like five, six, seven times in a row. Just so fast.
1:03:16
Track 3: It's just funny. loved.
1:03:18
Track 2: The replay of her destroying
1:03:22
Track 2: the church and the even though like they barely even changed anything i don't
1:03:27
Track 2: even know if they changed the music but like it's still the intention came through
1:03:33
Track 2: so much clearer and it was like such a subtle change but it was so obvious like
1:03:37
Track 2: the intention of the character like why she was reacting that was very well done.
1:03:41
Track 3: Yeah no it was beautifully done and then
1:03:44
Track 3: like the only real change is the little girl's behavior
1:03:47
Track 3: versus like the unfaithful narrator in the beginning explaining what happened
1:03:53
Track 3: versus like oh what actually happened and what she actually said now that she's
1:03:57
Track 3: being truthful and narrating it's like you harlot whore yeah of course I'm gonna
1:04:02
Track 3: beat the shit out of you too like fuck,
1:04:05
Track 3: man fuck them kids I.
1:04:07
Track 1: Did see in the wikipedia that they are,
1:04:10
Track 1: in daniel craig and uh johnson are like developing a story for a fourth one
1:04:15
Track 1: the thing that i don't get is that the netflix only netflix only bought two
1:04:20
Track 1: of them yes please two part two and three does that mean that like part four
1:04:24
Track 1: wouldn't be owned by netflix anymore or they then probably go back and be like let's i'm.
1:04:28
Track 3: Sure it'll go back to netflix.
1:04:30
Track 1: It's not like they have everything in like a year.
1:04:33
Track 3: And a half.
1:04:34
Track 1: Yeah they got what 85 billion dollars to buy warner brothers and just It's like,
1:04:38
Track 1: yeah, I got another 250 mil just sitting around to make, to buy the rights to
1:04:42
Track 1: make this, plus the cost of making the movie.
1:04:45
Track 1: Imagine if Netflix actually cared about making medium to small budget movies.
1:04:50
Track 1: They could have made, they could make a lot of it.
1:04:55
Track 2: We think?
1:04:56
Track 1: We don't need to get into that.
1:04:57
Track 2: We don't?
1:04:57
Track 3: That'd require a different system, Evan.
1:05:01
Track 1: A different system.
1:05:02
Track 2: What would that system be, Warren?
1:05:03
Track 3: Oh, socialism.
1:05:06
Track 1: Um well i think um that about wraps it up but uh evan here bill and ward we'll
1:05:13
Track 1: catch everyone next time have.
1:05:15
Track 3: A great one.
1:05:16
Track 2: Have a good night guys.