Latest / Karl and Crew / A Practical Guide to Manhood with Junior Ziegler & Looking to Jesus for True Manhood with Dr. Jonathan Griffiths

Transcript

A Practical Guide to Manhood with Junior Ziegler & Looking to Jesus for True Manhood with Dr. Jonathan Griffiths · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
• 0:05
  S1: and crew.
• 0:06
  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
• 0:11
  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
• 0:14
  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
• 0:16
  S2: Cold spaghetti's. Great. Okay.
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  S3: Okay, I disagree. I guess not. No, certainly it is not. No. Okay. Well, man,
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  S3: I'm going back.
• 0:26
  S2: To my bachelor days. I guess I thought cold spaghetti
• 0:29
  S2: was universally loved.
• 0:31
  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
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  S4: That's just. It feels like.
• 0:37
  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
• 0:42
  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
• 0:48
  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
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  S4: that would make it worth it.
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  S5: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
• 0:56
  S5: the life source, which is God.
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  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
• 1:02
  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
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  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 1:10
  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 1:15
  S1: and crew.
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  S2: Yeah. Chivalry is a great term. It captures kind of
• 1:20
  S2: that warrior spirit, but an honoring spirit and a laying
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  S2: down a life and really caring for women in our culture.
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  S2: It's a beautiful picture. I love it. I love the
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  S2: term chivalry. I love Knights of the Round Table. I
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  S2: love the whole shtick. Ali.
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  S4: You're you're a chivalry guy.
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  S2: Yeah, I think it's I think it's good. I, I'm
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  S2: kind of old school. I think opening doors is a
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  S2: good thing first for your bride. If you're a married
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  S2: man and grabbing doors, grabbing shopping carts, whatever you can
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  S2: do to help out when a mom's trying to juggle
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  S2: two bags of grocery and an infant baby. Maybe lending
• 2:00
  S2: a hand if you can.
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  S4: Super helpful, you know. Chivalry. It's interesting. I asked my
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  S4: son yesterday who's 13, if he knew what the word
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  S4: chivalry was. Yeah, he didn't know that word. He knew.
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  S4: Once we started talking about it, he knew everything around it.
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  S4: But that word chivalry, he was like, I don't what?
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  S4: I don't know what that means.
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  S2: Yeah, I don't blame him. It's kind of an old
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  S2: school word.
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  S4: Yeah. Okay. Well. Well, good thing he knows what it means.
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  S4: He just didn't know the word.
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  S2: Yeah, it's it's great. We're going to have a we're
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  S2: going to tee up a question here. As a matter
• 2:30
  S2: of fact, I think we can go ahead and start
• 2:32
  S2: filling up the phone lines here. You know, one of the.
• 2:35
  S2: Let's just go straight line to the bull's eye. I mean,
• 2:39
  S2: here's the bottom line. When you look at Ephesians 525,
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  S2: you've got this. Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved
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  S2: the church and gave himself up for her. Now that
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  S2: is a high standard of love because the way Christ
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  S2: loved the church. If you remember men, he died for us.
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  S2: He died for the bride. And when you think about
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  S2: that kind of love, boy that's laying it down. And
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  S2: here's the interesting thing. I think most men, when push
• 3:17
  S2: came to shove, if you've got an intruder or something
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  S2: really dicey in your life, I think most men would
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  S2: jump between his bride and a bullet. I do. I
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  S2: think most men would. But the I really the litmus
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  S2: test of it is not in taking bullets. But just
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  S2: what are you laughing about? Young thunder.
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  S5: I'm laughing because you.
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  S3: Know.
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  S5: What you're saying is so right, and I'll wait till
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  S5: I say what I have to say until you.
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  S3: Finish. No, you.
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  S2: I've already. You've your laughter. Got it? So take it away, man.
• 3:52
  S2: It's more than. it's in the every day stuff.
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  S5: The. The majority of us would take a bullet. The
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  S5: majority of us would never have to take a bullet. Uh, also,
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  S5: the things we have to do every day sacrificing by
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  S5: getting rid of comfort, choosing our wife first over ourselves,
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  S5: you know, cleaning up around the house to give her
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  S5: a little extra rest. Those things are available to us
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  S5: every day. But are we taking those opportunities? Every single
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  S5: day is a good question.
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  S2: Yeah, it's almost like love has seen better in the small, common,
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  S2: everyday stuff than in the big take the bullet stuff.
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  S3: Yes. It's like, I'll.
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  S2: I'll stand in front of her. I would take honey,
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  S2: I would take a bullet for you. Yeah, but will
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  S2: you listen to me?
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  S5: Yeah, absolutely. I would die for you. Great. But would
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  S5: you live for me? You know, it's a great question too.
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  S2: Oh my goodness. So let's get some, uh, that question
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  S2: teed up here, Ali, and we'll get phone calls coming in.
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  S4: Yeah. We want to ask you men, how has loving
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  S4: and sacrificing for your wife turned your marriage around?
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  S2: Around?
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  S4: And this is gonna there has to be a marked shift.
• 5:00
  S4: So if you call and say from day one. I've
• 5:02
  S4: been loving and sacrificing for my wife.
• 5:05
  S2: Yeah, well, that's. You can't be. Come in here and
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  S2: start lying.
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  S4: There's got to be a marked shift. A time where
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  S4: you realized I need to be loving and sacrificing my
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  S4: wife better. How did that turn your marriage around? We'll
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  S4: also take calls from wives. If your husband stepped up
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  S4: and started to love and sacrifice for you, and that
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  S4: shifted things in your marriage, you're welcome to call in
• 5:26
  S4: as well. 805 557898 (800) 555-7898.
• 5:33
  S2: Yeah, light em up, guys. Your story. And it could
• 5:35
  S2: be that you're going to have to say it through
• 5:37
  S2: tears because a lot of these are seen in small,
• 5:40
  S2: but sometimes in large things. I mean let's just shoot straight.
• 5:46
  S2: I feel like shooting straight here this morning. I guess
• 5:49
  S2: that's not new, but there's sometimes where there's been infidelity
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  S2: and a guy came forward or got caught and turned
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  S2: it around. Or maybe the woman did. But here's the point.
• 6:02
  S2: When there's a dramatic turn from serving self to loving
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  S2: a wife as Christ loved the church, it has a
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  S2: trajectory shift on a marriage. It really does. So give
• 6:14
  S2: us a call (800) 555-7898 805 557898. Fill the phone lines.
• 6:22
  S2: We're going to get after it. Guys, just a couple
• 6:24
  S2: of moments here. We're going to get a quick pop in. Uh,
• 6:27
  S2: you've heard about Iran deal. I'm going to frame out
• 6:30
  S2: what we do know and what we don't and get
• 6:31
  S2: a guest in here.
• 6:33
  S1: Take your next step with Jesus. Today. You're listening to
• 6:37
  S1: Carl and crew.
• 6:38
  S2: Yeah. I wanted to hear from Omer. I met Omer
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  S2: Eshel in Chicago when he was working with the Israeli, uh,
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  S2: Israel Ministry of Tourism. He was the Midwest regional director here.
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  S2: Tremendous guy, great friend. Omer, good to have you with us.
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  S2: I want to frame out the this deal as we
• 6:57
  S2: know it. And nobody knows what the deal is, Omer.
• 6:59
  S2: But here's the big points that we're hearing. Immediate halt
• 7:03
  S2: to direct hostilities. Strait of Hormuz reopened. Iran says it
• 7:08
  S2: will not pursue nuclear weapons. Partial sanctions relief for Iran,
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  S2: a bigger long term passage. This has been some misinformation.
• 7:17
  S2: The word was that 300 billion would be given to them.
• 7:21
  S2: But that's all apparently contingent on performance metrics and them
• 7:26
  S2: being good. And a couple other things. We don't know
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  S2: what the deal holds, but how does it feel living
• 7:32
  S2: in Israel and people are making deals with your arch
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  S2: enemy that you don't trust? Omer.
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  S7: You know, we've been there, done that. We've we've seen
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  S7: that in the past. And the fact is, and this
• 7:43
  S7: is something that I want to elaborate to our listeners,
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  S7: the fact that there's a deal behind our head or
• 7:49
  S7: behind our back, it doesn't mean that we will not
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  S7: survive it. It doesn't mean that we will not retaliate
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  S7: if we're going to be attacked. Deal or no deal.
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  S4: Omer, why is this so upsetting to so many of
• 8:01
  S4: the Israeli people? We're reading that many, many are very
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  S4: frustrated by this kind of outline. For those who don't
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  S4: have a great understanding why this kind of cease fire
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  S4: would be a bad thing.
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  S7: The problem is that the U.S. plays on the Western civilization.
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  S7: The U.S. is used to deal with Western societies. Venezuela,
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  S7: for example, is a Western society. Iran is eastern. And
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  S7: we here in the East, we live in the Middle East,
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  S7: we speak Middle East. And we know when our opponent
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  S7: is lying and whether or not. And we all know
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  S7: that the Iranians are lying through their teeth. We know
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  S7: this because we are dealing with them on a daily basis.
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  S7: The Americans don't know that because for you guys or
• 8:39
  S7: for for the Trump administration, it's just another deal. But
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  S7: this is new clientele.
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  S2: Is there potential, Omer, that there is enough leverage here
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  S2: to make peace with the pieces of this agreement be fulfilled?
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  S2: And could it last for a year or two years?
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  S2: I have no confidence that this could last a decade
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  S2: or two. What do you say, Omer?
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  S7: We need to remember that President Obama also struck a
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  S7: deal back in 2015 with a number of around $300 billion. Because,
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  S7: remember the jumbo jet full of U.S. dollars coming to
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  S7: the to the Iranians. And the deal was that they
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  S7: will not proceed with nuclear capabilities. Lo and behold, ten
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  S7: years later, they are almost on the brink of a
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  S7: nuclear bomb and basically terrorized the world. So I think
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  S7: it's going to happen with this deal as well.
• 9:27
  S2: How do we pray, Omer? What's the feel on the ground?
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  S2: I mean, you guys live with an Iron Dome, but
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  S2: some of those missiles from Hezbollah, Houthi, you name it,
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  S2: they get lobbed into you. What's it like, Omer? It's
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  S2: got to be tough for you. Desensitized to it now.
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  S2: What do you feel?
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  S7: I have full trust in our father in heaven. But
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  S7: this is me. That's. That's how I look at it.
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  S7: We have the Iron Dome. We have the arrow. We
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  S7: have all of that. But we still we do have
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  S7: above all of that, our father in heaven and the
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  S7: state of Israel is a fulfillment of the promise of
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  S7: God to his people. And I got to share this
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  S7: with you. The only reason why those organizations, Houthis, Hezbollah,
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  S7: Iran are not destroying Israel is not because of President Trump,
• 10:11
  S7: and it's not because of Macron, of France. They just
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  S7: cannot do it because of our military strength. Trust me,
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  S7: if they could, they would have done it.
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  S2: Yeah. Omar, thanks for tapping in here all the way
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  S2: from Israel. In fact, he you, Omar, you live up
• 10:26
  S2: there where, you know, we have a little saying here. Yeah.
• 10:29
  S2: When pigs fly, you live up there in the very
• 10:31
  S2: corner of the Sea of Galilee where Jesus made pigs fly,
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  S2: my friend.
• 10:35
  S7: And you know what? When you speak about evil, evil
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  S7: countries and evil regimes. I'm sitting in the place where
• 10:41
  S7: Jesus beat the demons, so I know what I'm talking about.
• 10:44
  S2: Yeah, you. I mean, literally, guys, he is within proximity
• 10:50
  S2: within just hundreds of yards of where Jesus performed the
• 10:54
  S2: casting out of demonic spirits, into the pigs and off
• 10:57
  S2: the cliff they went. Oh, miracle. Thanks for ducking in
• 11:00
  S2: this morning.
• 11:02
  S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
• 11:06
  S1: You're listening to cast and crew.
• 11:09
  S2: Okay, we're going to get to some phone calls here.
• 11:11
  S2: We've got a question for you this morning. We're talking
• 11:13
  S2: chivalry all week long, and now he's got a good
• 11:16
  S2: one for you.
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  S4: How has loving and sacrificing for your wife turned your
• 11:21
  S4: marriage around? 805. Five. Five. 78. 98. Want to hear
• 11:26
  S4: from you husbands, but also wives. If you want to
• 11:29
  S4: shout out because your husband has done this well, made
• 11:31
  S4: a real shift in loving and sacrificing for you. We
• 11:34
  S4: want to hear from you as well. 805 557898.
• 11:38
  S2: Jim first time caller Alabama. Thanks for holding on, my man.
• 11:41
  S2: What do you say?
• 11:44
  S8: Hey, I just wanted to let you know, um, when
• 11:46
  S8: my wife and I first got married that, you know,
• 11:49
  S8: coming together from different families, uh, was always that struggle. And, uh,
• 11:54
  S8: I was guilty of kind of looking to see what
• 11:56
  S8: she was doing and what I was doing and complaining.
• 11:59
  S8: And we had some tension and, you know, fussing and
• 12:02
  S8: disagreements there. And the Lord just spoke to me early
• 12:07
  S8: in our marriage and said, just, just out server server, like,
• 12:11
  S8: you know, Christ, Christ serve. Wow. And, and it just flipped,
• 12:15
  S8: flipped me over on my head. Um, I began to
• 12:19
  S8: just look for ways to serve her. I quit comparing,
• 12:21
  S8: I quit trying to, you know, talk or pick about
• 12:25
  S8: or complain about what she wasn't doing. And the more
• 12:28
  S8: I served, the more she served me. And we've had
• 12:32
  S8: the sweetest marriage for almost 35 years now. Uh, Just
• 12:37
  S8: try to outserve that spouse and. And the Lord will
• 12:40
  S8: work a miracle in that in that marriage.
• 12:43
  S2: Jim, you are such a good man. You've got the
• 12:45
  S2: you got the grace of God just flowing through you,
• 12:48
  S2: my man. And I love you. Thank you for calling in.
• 12:50
  S2: Give Jim a call and crew prize pack. That is
• 12:54
  S2: that is a prize pack story right there.
• 12:57
  S3: Awesome.
• 12:57
  S2: That is beautiful. Taking your calls. If you're on the phone.
• 13:01
  S2: Hold on. We'll get to you. Ali. The question again, sister.
• 13:04
  S4: How has loving and sacrificing for your wife turned your
• 13:08
  S4: marriage around? Men 805, five, five, 78, 98 in wives,
• 13:13
  S4: you want to shout out your husbands. We'll hear from you.
• 13:15
  S4: Two 805 557898.
• 13:18
  S1: Your shot of hope to help you through the day.
• 13:21
  S1: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 13:25
  S2: Taking your calls. We, uh, we get time to even
• 13:28
  S2: get some more in here. Listen, here's the deal. We're
• 13:30
  S2: talking chivalry. And this is where the rubber meets the
• 13:33
  S2: road right here. You men were convicted and called by
• 13:38
  S2: God to love your wives as Christ loved the church.
• 13:40
  S2: And by the power of the spirit you did a
• 13:42
  S2: turnaround and it really changed your marriage. We'd love to
• 13:45
  S2: hear from you. And ladies, you had a man that
• 13:47
  S2: did that and it really turned your marriage around. (800) 555-7898.
• 13:54
  S2: Let's go to the phone lines.
• 13:55
  S4: Let's go to Marcus. First time caller from Chicago, Illinois.
• 13:57
  S4: Go ahead, tell us. Tell us about the time you
• 14:00
  S4: shifted to love and sacrifice for your wife.
• 14:04
  S9: Well, it started since last year, and I can say, um,
• 14:08
  S9: in January of 2025, we were going through stuff and, um,
• 14:13
  S9: it pretty much she wanted, um, you know, she couldn't
• 14:16
  S9: deal with it, but I know I didn't want to
• 14:18
  S9: lose her. So and now in 2026, one year later,
• 14:22
  S9: I can say that just by reading this one verse,
• 14:25
  S9: I learned about more about sacrifice, about how I had
• 14:28
  S9: to sacrifice. Because, um, when Jesus died for the church. Um,
• 14:35
  S9: you know, he, I pretty much had to die too. So,
• 14:38
  S9: but when I read that verse in John three on
• 14:41
  S9: verses five, and I think it goes through seven, and
• 14:43
  S9: I think it's where he says that, uh, no one
• 14:45
  S9: can enter the kingdom unless they are born again. So,
• 14:49
  S9: you know, flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives, uh,
• 14:54
  S9: gives birth to the spirit. So what, what that told
• 14:58
  S9: me after everything that I read is that if I'm
• 15:02
  S9: going to have to do, if I'm going to get
• 15:04
  S9: into this being born again, I have to renew my
• 15:07
  S9: mind in the sense that that she that she is
• 15:12
  S9: a gift and that she needs to be loved.
• 15:15
  S3: Marcus.
• 15:16
  S9: That if I don't, I'm sorry.
• 15:18
  S2: No, no, I cut you off, dude. Go ahead.
• 15:21
  S9: No, I'm just I'm just. I was just so sorry
• 15:24
  S9: that that that that I had to tell her that.
• 15:27
  S9: I know we've been married for 35 years. And I
• 15:30
  S9: told her, you know what? I know when we started.
• 15:35
  S9: It's not how we start. Uh, how I wanted to start.
• 15:39
  S9: But I know how I want to finish. And I
• 15:41
  S9: want to finish in Jesus Christ with you.
• 15:43
  S3: Boom!
• 15:44
  S2: Marcus, you're the man. You are the man.
• 15:48
  S5: What a great statement.
• 15:49
  S2: What a.
• 15:49
  S3: Statement.
• 15:51
  S2: Stay on the horn. You're getting to Carl and crew
• 15:53
  S2: prize pack. That's beautiful.
• 15:56
  S3: Ali.
• 15:57
  S4: Beautiful testimonies.
• 15:58
  S2: Looks like we got a wife weighing in here. Liz
• 16:01
  S2: in Cleveland, Ohio. What do you say, Liz?
• 16:04
  S10: Hi. Good morning. God bless my husband. Adonis has always
• 16:09
  S10: sacrificed for me. And though we have only been married
• 16:12
  S10: four years this July. I say always because we dated
• 16:16
  S10: back when we were teenagers, 14 and 16 years old.
• 16:20
  S10: We separated and there were years between us. But he
• 16:25
  S10: searched for me for ten years and when he found me,
• 16:28
  S10: he wasted no time making me his wife. But he
• 16:32
  S10: sacrifices for me all the time. And it not only
• 16:35
  S10: it didn't. It doesn't didn't change our marriage, though. It helps.
• 16:38
  S10: But it changed my life because I was in a
• 16:41
  S10: previous marriage where I was basically ignored every day.
• 16:45
  S3: Oh.
• 16:46
  S10: I love him. I'm shouting him out and I thank
• 16:49
  S10: God for him every day.
• 16:50
  S2: Well, you got a man named.
• 16:52
  S3: Don.
• 16:52
  S2: Crying.
• 16:52
  S3: Out loud. I mean.
• 16:54
  S5: It's a.
• 16:54
  S3: Fitting name.
• 16:55
  S2: He's got a name he better live up to.
• 16:56
  S3: You know what I mean?
• 16:58
  S2: I mean, come on. Keep Liz on the horn. Everybody
• 17:02
  S2: gets one today.
• 17:03
  S5: I prize packs all around.
• 17:05
  S2: Prize packs all around today. Now somebody's thinking, oh, man,
• 17:09
  S2: next time he asks for a shout out, I'm going
• 17:11
  S2: to call in. It's not guaranteed.
• 17:13
  S5: It's not guaranteed.
• 17:15
  S2: It's just every now and then we do it. And
• 17:17
  S2: that was beautiful. You know, that one verse can really
• 17:23
  S2: change everything. Can't that Ali.
• 17:26
  S4: Yeah. And it's such a high call. I mean, husbands
• 17:29
  S4: love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave
• 17:32
  S4: himself up for her. I mean, it took me some time,
• 17:34
  S4: I think, to fully appreciate this because, you know, when
• 17:37
  S4: I was growing up, I really had kind of a,
• 17:41
  S4: a skepticism of the husband wife roles that just, I
• 17:48
  S4: felt like, oh, man, the wife's getting the short end
• 17:50
  S4: of the end of the stick.
• 17:52
  S3: That's fair.
• 17:53
  S4: And so verses like this kind of made me like,
• 17:57
  S4: put me on pins and needles a little bit. Like,
• 17:59
  S4: what is that? Because it felt like a power move.
• 18:02
  S4: And I, I'm so grateful that the Lord has allowed
• 18:04
  S4: me to see it as a, it's a, it's a
• 18:07
  S4: laying down of your life move. It's not a power
• 18:09
  S4: move when it's done in a godly way.
• 18:12
  S3: Yeah.
• 18:12
  S2: You know, it's interesting that you say that my bride
• 18:14
  S2: and I have done years of meeting with couples counseling, coaching,
• 18:21
  S2: and that's not original with you, Allie. There is almost
• 18:25
  S2: a skepticism of what in the world is this going
• 18:28
  S2: to look like, and how is this going to go down?
• 18:31
  S2: But when you get a taste of it, when a man,
• 18:35
  S2: I mean, in one act of self sacrifice, lays down
• 18:39
  S2: his life for his bride and in laying down your
• 18:42
  S2: life doesn't need to look some grandiose thing, right? I mean,
• 18:46
  S2: it's laying down your life can be laying down your
• 18:50
  S2: phone and listening intently to a woman bare her soul
• 18:54
  S2: for 15 minutes. That's powerhouse without trying to fix anything.
• 19:01
  S4: Oh, yeah.
• 19:02
  S2: Yeah. It's sweet talking chivalry all week long, guys. And
• 19:09
  S2: what a topic this is. This is. I mean, this
• 19:12
  S2: is the stuff my bride and I used to speak
• 19:15
  S2: at weekends to remember with family life for about 11 years. And,
• 19:20
  S2: you know, you get this battle unit of the home
• 19:22
  S2: front together. Oh, it it changes. I mean, everything outside
• 19:28
  S2: the home changes radically when that inside the home thing
• 19:32
  S2: gets squared away.
• 19:33
  S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening
• 19:38
  S1: to Carl and crew.
• 19:40
  S2: You know, there's a lot of discussion in our culture today.
• 19:42
  S2: And there's a desire for there to be sameness. Sameness
• 19:48
  S2: doesn't happen. Equality does. There's no Jew nor Greek, slave
• 19:53
  S2: nor free man nor woman. And even that gets twisted
• 19:58
  S2: around at times. But the fact is, is that in
• 20:02
  S2: Christ Jesus we're totally equal. But that doesn't mean that
• 20:06
  S2: we're the same. And when you understand that, and I
• 20:09
  S2: think most people get that in theory. But you look
• 20:14
  S2: at this passage here in First Peter three seven, it says, likewise,
• 20:18
  S2: husbands love your wives in an understanding way, showing honor
• 20:22
  S2: to the woman as the weaker vessel. And there's some
• 20:25
  S2: that blush over that and go, oh, why is that
• 20:27
  S2: in Scripture? Well, the reason it's in Scripture is, is
• 20:31
  S2: because it's true, totally equal, but different. And the vessel
• 20:36
  S2: being referred to here is of strength. And it's just
• 20:41
  S2: as simply as simple as that. So there's a there
• 20:46
  S2: is a distinct power imbalance. We hear that term a lot, right?
• 20:49
  S2: Power imbalance. But there is a power imbalance between men
• 20:54
  S2: and women physically. And that's a real thing. When I
• 20:59
  S2: walk down a pathway with my dog, I try to
• 21:06
  S2: relieve any woman of feeling like, oh boy, here I
• 21:09
  S2: come with my dog by going out of my way
• 21:11
  S2: to get out of her way, because that's just a realism.
• 21:16
  S2: And Ali, you were pouring out your heart about a
• 21:18
  S2: story that really captures this. You were at a restaurant
• 21:22
  S2: or something? Give us the story.
• 21:23
  S4: Yeah. You know, I had this moment that every single
• 21:27
  S4: woman has experienced at some point in time or the other.
• 21:30
  S4: I was this was the middle of the day. I
• 21:32
  S4: made a quick stop at a little salad place and
• 21:36
  S4: some shops, and I just happened to notice this guy,
• 21:40
  S4: and he was just kind of hanging around and he wasn't.
• 21:44
  S4: I want to be clear, he did not do anything wrong,
• 21:47
  S4: but there was just a sense that I got that
• 21:50
  S4: I didn't feel safe. And so I kind of just
• 21:53
  S4: was paying attention. And as he started to kind of
• 21:56
  S4: make his way toward me, I, I just quickly got
• 21:59
  S4: up and I went into one of the stores to
• 22:02
  S4: just kind of wait and let him go on about
• 22:04
  S4: his business because I just felt a little bit unsafe.
• 22:07
  S4: The problem was he clearly was not going to leave.
• 22:11
  S4: He didn't go into any stores. He didn't wasn't walking
• 22:14
  S4: with any sort of purpose. He just was sort of
• 22:16
  S4: like roaming and looking around. and he had clearly spotted me.
• 22:20
  S4: I don't think his intentions were bad, but I just
• 22:23
  S4: didn't know. I didn't know.
• 22:25
  S3: And you didn't want.
• 22:25
  S2: To stick around.
• 22:26
  S3: For late.
• 22:27
  S2: Night dinner.
• 22:27
  S4: Stick around and find out. So I'm just kind of.
• 22:29
  S4: I could see from the window of the store and
• 22:32
  S4: I just was kind of watching him. He couldn't see
• 22:34
  S4: me inside the store and I thought. And minutes were
• 22:36
  S4: passing ten minutes and I thought, I need to leave,
• 22:39
  S4: but I cannot get to my car without encountering this guy.
• 22:44
  S4: And so I thought, okay, I'm going to go out
• 22:46
  S4: the back entrance and I can probably get to my
• 22:48
  S4: car and and totally miss him. The problem was as
• 22:52
  S4: soon as I got outside and then I was on
• 22:54
  S4: the backside of the building and I was already out
• 22:57
  S4: there and he was there and he hadn't seen me yet.
• 23:02
  S4: But before he could, I flagged down this guy who
• 23:06
  S4: was walking across the street, minding his own business, listening
• 23:10
  S4: to his AirPods, and I was like, hey, can I
• 23:13
  S4: stop you for a minute? And he kind of looks
• 23:15
  S4: at me and, you know, wants to see what my
• 23:17
  S4: what am I doing here? I said, hey, can you
• 23:19
  S4: do me a favor? And he's like, yeah, what's up?
• 23:22
  S4: And I said, can you walk with me for one block?
• 23:26
  S4: And he's like, uh, sure. And I said, I just
• 23:28
  S4: and I gave him like a quick ten second explanation.
• 23:31
  S4: I said, I just need to get to my car
• 23:33
  S4: and I just don't feel totally safe. If you could
• 23:35
  S4: just walk next to me for a block, I'm not
• 23:37
  S4: going to put you in a bad situation. He's like, no, no, no,
• 23:40
  S4: it's fine. So we walk a block, don't say a word.
• 23:45
  S4: I don't know his name. He doesn't know my name.
• 23:47
  S4: We don't know anything about each other. But I get
• 23:49
  S4: to my car and then we do this. I was like,
• 23:51
  S4: great to see you. He's like, great catching up.
• 23:54
  S3: So we do this sort of like, cool.
• 23:57
  S4: I hop in my car and immediately I feel this
• 23:59
  S4: just sigh of relief of just, okay, I'm in my car,
• 24:03
  S4: I'm safe. And I, as I'm pulling out of the
• 24:05
  S4: parking lot, I notice that he's still walking and he's
• 24:08
  S4: got his eyes on my car, making sure that I
• 24:10
  S4: got out of the parking lot and nice. I was
• 24:14
  S4: so blessed by this act of chivalry from a stranger.
• 24:17
  S4: I've never seen this guy. I probably won't ever see
• 24:20
  S4: him again. Didn't get his name, but I was so
• 24:22
  S4: grateful that in that moment, I didn't have my son.
• 24:25
  S4: I didn't have my husband. I was totally alone. And
• 24:27
  S4: he stepped in and he didn't need a long dissertation.
• 24:31
  S4: He knew this is a woman. She feels unsafe. There's
• 24:33
  S4: some guy who feels a little creepy, and I'm going
• 24:37
  S4: to get her to her car, and I'm going to
• 24:38
  S4: go on my way.
• 24:38
  S3: That is a story.
• 24:40
  S4: Man. I was so grateful.
• 24:41
  S3: That's chivalry.
• 24:42
  S4: It was chivalry.
• 24:43
  S3: Is chivalry.
• 24:43
  S6: Stepping up.
• 24:44
  S5: Man. You know, I learned I heard this from my dad.
• 24:46
  S5: I've got a lot of quotes from my dad lately,
• 24:48
  S5: I feel like. But I was talking to him and
• 24:50
  S5: he brought up this verse about, you know, honoring the
• 24:54
  S5: woman as the weaker vessel. And he said, I feel
• 24:56
  S5: like a big portion of what that means is understanding
• 25:00
  S5: that the world is a much scarier place to live
• 25:03
  S5: in as a woman than it is as a man.
• 25:06
  S5: I don't walk down the street in the same way
• 25:08
  S5: Ali does, and usually if I see a guy that
• 25:11
  S5: I'm a little sketched out by. I puff up my
• 25:14
  S5: chest and I move my shoulders back a little bit
• 25:16
  S5: to signify.
• 25:17
  S3: Stay away from.
• 25:18
  S5: Me, and I just keep moving. And I don't think
• 25:20
  S5: all that much about it, but I. I realize that
• 25:24
  S5: women have to think about those things all of the time,
• 25:27
  S5: whether they even see the threat sometimes, or just have
• 25:30
  S5: to be aware that there could possibly be a threat.
• 25:32
  S5: And I love what that man did. I think he
• 25:34
  S5: signified that verse really well in that moment.
• 25:37
  S2: Yeah, that's chivalry right there, guys. That's beautiful. So let's
• 25:41
  S2: do this. Calling all men. I want you to be
• 25:44
  S2: on alert today. Not because women are lesser.
• 25:50
  S5: Not a chance.
• 25:51
  S3: Totally equal.
• 25:52
  S2: Totally equal, but because they're different. And there's a natural
• 25:59
  S2: biological power imbalance between men and women. That is, I
• 26:07
  S2: know it's not even hip to say that anymore. I
• 26:11
  S2: know that there's some that have an aversion, but it's
• 26:14
  S2: a reality. And Ali, you just captured it so perfectly.
• 26:21
  S2: Go be chivalrous today, man.
• 26:25
  S4: It man, it's such a gift that you can give
• 26:28
  S4: men a chivalrous act first towards your wife and your family.
• 26:33
  S4: But then if you have the opportunity to step up
• 26:35
  S4: for a woman who just needs some help, do it.
• 26:40
  S1: Romans eight brought her to Jesus while broadcasting traffic overnight.
• 26:45
  S1: Super di is in the crew. It's kollel and crew
• 26:49
  S1: on Moody Radio.
• 26:50
  S2: Carl and crew. I'll tell you, one of the most
• 26:52
  S2: encouraging things that I am experiencing right now is watching
• 26:56
  S2: this for me. Young generation of pastors. I've got a
• 27:00
  S2: bunch of kids on our staff at one.
• 27:02
  S3: Chicago.
• 27:03
  S2: Man. Kids. Yeah, kids. I mean, they're in their 20s
• 27:07
  S2: and 30s and it's one of the coolest things to
• 27:11
  S2: see these, in this case, young men stepping up and
• 27:15
  S2: being students of the word and pouring out their heart
• 27:18
  S2: and even writing books. Ali. It's so cool.
• 27:21
  S4: Yeah. So coming up, let's hear from one of them,
• 27:23
  S4: Pastor Junior Ziegler, A Practical Guide to Manhood. This is
• 27:27
  S4: especially for young men.
• 27:30
  S1: The gospel changes everything.
• 27:33
  S4: Where else am I going to find peace, joy, eternal
• 27:36
  S4: life not found in anyone else?
• 27:39
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 27:41
  S2: Well, here we were going after it, weren't we, Ali?
• 27:44
  S2: We're bragging about young guys that are showing chivalry in
• 27:48
  S2: our day and in our time. And we got one
• 27:50
  S2: sitting down with us right now.
• 27:52
  S4: Yeah. His name is Junior Ziegler. He is a teaching
• 27:55
  S4: pastor at the Bridge Community Church in the Chicagoland area.
• 27:57
  S4: Also author of the manual A Practical Guide to Manhood.
• 28:03
  S4: Fun fact, he's a alum of the Great Moody Bible Institute.
• 28:07
  S4: So there's that.
• 28:08
  S2: Yeah. He is loved big time. A phenomenal teacher. The word.
• 28:11
  S2: I'm a big junior Ziegler fan. And you're here, my man.
• 28:15
  S2: It's so good to have you.
• 28:16
  S11: Oh, thanks for letting me come in. Yeah. Great.
• 28:18
  S2: So let's break it down. Um, boy, you've got a
• 28:22
  S2: beat on this one. You see it? We've been talking
• 28:24
  S2: a little bit about it already this week. Men can
• 28:26
  S2: fall off the high ridge of biblical manhood into passivity
• 28:30
  S2: or into this weird, toxic masculinity. And I'm bummed because
• 28:34
  S2: this toxic masculinity, these guys are influencers out there, man.
• 28:37
  S2: They got big channels and they're using them. Mhm. How
• 28:40
  S2: do we go against that stream and really climb back
• 28:43
  S2: up onto that high ridge junior of what God called
• 28:46
  S2: us to as men?
• 28:47
  S11: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's really that chivalry, which is
• 28:49
  S11: what we've been talking about lately. That is putting others
• 28:53
  S11: needs before your own. You know, you're here to protect,
• 28:56
  S11: to put others before yourself and step in that gap. Yeah.
• 28:59
  S11: Problem is, is that toxicity though, is when it's mining
• 29:02
  S11: before your own. And so I'm going to go first
• 29:04
  S11: because because I'm the leader. And that's what a lot
• 29:06
  S11: of young guys are hearing from some of these new
• 29:08
  S11: up and coming voices right now.
• 29:10
  S4: Yeah. Talk a little bit about some of the messages
• 29:12
  S4: that young men are hearing, because there's been a resurgence
• 29:15
  S4: of kind of a different form of toxic masculinity. What
• 29:19
  S4: are you seeing from your vantage point?
• 29:21
  S11: It's really a confusion of what leadership is. And that
• 29:24
  S11: is if you're the leader, then I got to be
• 29:26
  S11: I got to step in. I got to be, you know,
• 29:27
  S11: the front man. And it's not that at all. It's yeah,
• 29:30
  S11: you got to step in, but you're stepping in in
• 29:32
  S11: order to serve others. I mean, it, it boils down
• 29:34
  S11: to what Jesus did for us. That's true leadership, stepping
• 29:36
  S11: in that gap and sacrificing yourself for the sake of others.
• 29:41
  S2: You know, it's interesting, junior, let's go after this word
• 29:43
  S2: sacrifice because it's right here in Ephesians 525. Husbands, love
• 29:49
  S2: your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself
• 29:52
  S2: up for her. And, you know, sacrifice implies there's going
• 29:58
  S2: to be cost to us on this thing, right, junior?
• 30:01
  S11: Oh, yeah. That's what sacrifice. Yeah. You have to. It
• 30:03
  S11: has to cost you something.
• 30:05
  S2: How has it cost you something in your marriage to
• 30:08
  S2: be a Godward man to Nicole.
• 30:11
  S11: It's cost a lot of comfort. I don't think that
• 30:14
  S11: you can be chivalrous and comfortable at the same time.
• 30:18
  S11: It's just not going to exist. And so that discomfort
• 30:22
  S11: of starting those conversations that nobody wants to have, confronting sin,
• 30:27
  S11: including your own sin first. But sin in the home
• 30:30
  S11: is uncomfortable. It's awful, but it's stepping into that and grace,
• 30:34
  S11: as Jesus does with us, the Holy Spirit does with
• 30:36
  S11: us in grace and in mercy. But confronting that sin
• 30:41
  S11: for the sake of the home culture, for the sake
• 30:44
  S11: of the marriage.
• 30:45
  S2: Let's go after that a little bit. I in all
• 30:48
  S2: the years I've been doing this radio show, I've never
• 30:52
  S2: heard a man be as bold about confronting sin in
• 30:56
  S2: the home with love and sacrifice as you've just said.
• 31:01
  S2: How do you approach that, junior?
• 31:03
  S11: Yeah, well, I think sometimes guys can get confused by
• 31:08
  S11: the idea of servant leadership in the sense of if
• 31:11
  S11: there's something going on in the home, if there's something
• 31:13
  S11: going on in the marriage, if there's something going on
• 31:15
  S11: at work, I need to be the servant and just
• 31:17
  S11: let that go. That's not what the Holy Spirit does
• 31:20
  S11: in us. It's not what Jesus does with the church
• 31:22
  S11: at all. Instead, it's engaging. It's bringing it up. Hey,
• 31:26
  S11: I've noticed this, and I'm not saying I'm 100%, you know,
• 31:31
  S11: innocent of of what's going on right now at all.
• 31:34
  S11: But we need to have this conversation. And so can
• 31:36
  S11: I put this on the table? And that's always uncomfortable.
• 31:39
  S11: It's shaking things up a bit. But again, this is
• 31:42
  S11: what God does for us so that we can grow.
• 31:45
  S4: You know, it's interesting that younger men I have a
• 31:47
  S4: 13 year old son. And the messaging a lot of
• 31:50
  S4: times is, is equality. And there's a lot of like
• 31:53
  S4: female empowerment. And, and so, you know, I remember one
• 31:56
  S4: time he came home from school and he had At
• 32:00
  S4: p e, which he takes very, very seriously. They were
• 32:03
  S4: playing kickball and there was a girl who she didn't
• 32:07
  S4: touch the base. And my son, who's a, you know, bigger, stronger,
• 32:11
  S4: athletic kid, he couldn't get past. And so he almost
• 32:15
  S4: got in trouble with the P.E. teacher because he was
• 32:17
  S4: adamant that we're all playing kickball together. She should have
• 32:21
  S4: touched the base or she's out. And the P.E. teacher
• 32:24
  S4: was kind of like, let it go. But in his mind, like,
• 32:27
  S4: fair is fair. I don't care that she's a girl.
• 32:30
  S4: I don't care that she's not a great athlete.
• 32:32
  S11: I'm kind of with him on this one.
• 32:33
  S4: Competing out here. And so it's like, and I'm trying
• 32:36
  S4: to explain to him like the, you know, the, the
• 32:39
  S4: kind like chivalrous thing is to sort of let it go.
• 32:42
  S4: But the messaging has very much been like, no, girls,
• 32:45
  S4: like girls are powerful. Girls are strong. Like we're all,
• 32:48
  S4: we're all kind of on the same playing field, so
• 32:51
  S4: to speak. Speak to that a little bit because it
• 32:53
  S4: can get confusing for, um, for, for young boys to
• 32:57
  S4: try to know where. Where do I step in and
• 32:59
  S4: do the chivalrous thing? And where is it like that?
• 33:01
  S4: Is that demeaning to assume that she wants special treatment
• 33:05
  S4: of not touching the base?
• 33:07
  S11: Oh, totally. Which is kind of funny because I have
• 33:09
  S11: three daughters. One of my daughters. I would not let
• 33:11
  S11: that go because because she's she's pretty good at sports
• 33:16
  S11: and and she can take it. My other two, I
• 33:18
  S11: might let that go just because of their makeup and
• 33:20
  S11: who they are. I think that's I think that's okay
• 33:23
  S11: as far as the playing field. I mean, when it
• 33:24
  S11: comes to the playing field, we're all equal in the
• 33:27
  S11: sight of God, for sure. Equal in value in the
• 33:30
  S11: sight of God. Absolutely. But we're also created very, very differently.
• 33:33
  S11: And here I'll I'll put it this way. When I
• 33:36
  S11: was in college, my wife and I took salsa dancing lessons.
• 33:40
  S11: She was my girlfriend at the time. And I don't
• 33:43
  S11: know why I took salsa. I don't even like salsa dancing.
• 33:46
  S11: I like salsa, but you love her. That's why I
• 33:48
  S11: want her to like me back, you know? So I
• 33:50
  S11: took the dance and we got out on the floor, and, um.
• 33:53
  S11: And she's a very independent woman. I love it, and
• 33:56
  S11: she knows what she wants, where she wants to go.
• 33:57
  S11: So we start dancing and we're stepping on each other's toes.
• 34:00
  S11: And I'm getting frustrated with her. You know, I want
• 34:02
  S11: to go this way. And she. But she's got the
• 34:04
  S11: whole dance in her head where she wants to go.
• 34:05
  S11: And finally the the instructor stops us and goes, stop, stop, stop, stop.
• 34:08
  S11: You both are fighting right now for the lead. Here's
• 34:11
  S11: what needs to happen. Junior. You take the lead. And
• 34:14
  S11: then you looked at my wife and we try to
• 34:15
  S11: model our marriage after this, looked at my wife and said,
• 34:18
  S11: but if he leads well, he's just going to show
• 34:20
  S11: you off. He's going to show off your gifting. He's
• 34:23
  S11: going to show off who you are. And so allow
• 34:26
  S11: him to use his ability to just show you off
• 34:29
  S11: in this dance.
• 34:30
  S4: I love that.
• 34:31
  S11: Yeah. And so we've tried to model our marriage that way.
• 34:33
  S2: Yeah. And you do a good job of it. You know,
• 34:36
  S2: you mentioned you got three little girls. What are you
• 34:38
  S2: looking for? For those little girls, for the dudes down
• 34:41
  S2: the road that are going to be coming up onto
• 34:44
  S2: the front porch. What do you look? I think that's
• 34:47
  S2: the test of of manhood is what a what a
• 34:50
  S2: guy is looking for in these in these men, these
• 34:53
  S2: potential suitors.
• 34:53
  S11: It's funny you asked that, Carl, because I had a
• 34:56
  S11: long car ride with my oldest last night, and she's
• 34:59
  S11: going into eighth grade, and I had this conversation with her.
• 35:01
  S11: You know, right now she's like, boys are all gross.
• 35:02
  S11: I was like, okay, you can continue to think that
• 35:04
  S11: that's okay.
• 35:04
  S4: I'm good with that.
• 35:06
  S11: But one day you won't think that. And that's good too.
• 35:08
  S11: Above all, love Jesus, love his church and want to
• 35:13
  S11: do what's right. Absolutely. But then I told her, I said,
• 35:15
  S11: but also make sure he's going after something that he's
• 35:18
  S11: thrown himself at something. And that's what Paul tells Timothy
• 35:22
  S11: in first. Timothy is like, get rid of anything that's
• 35:25
  S11: keeping you from following Jesus better, but then also craft
• 35:28
  S11: your gift. Throw yourself at it. So I told her,
• 35:30
  S11: I was like, I don't, I don't care what his
• 35:32
  S11: gifting is. Be a plumber, be the best dang plumber
• 35:35
  S11: that he can be. But throw yourself because guys are
• 35:37
  S11: like flatbed trucks. If they're not carrying a heavy load
• 35:40
  S11: and going after something, they're just going to be all
• 35:42
  S11: over the road, but they're going to drive straighter when
• 35:44
  S11: they got when they're carrying that weight.
• 35:46
  S4: I'm glad you pointed that out, that going after something,
• 35:48
  S4: because one thing that is true and it's, it's, it
• 35:51
  S4: sounds stereotypical, but I've seen it play out. This generation
• 35:55
  S4: of younger men. I mean, it's the YouTube generation. It's
• 35:58
  S4: the video game generation. And and there's so much of
• 36:02
  S4: a draw into things that are very passive, like fake love,
• 36:06
  S4: fake war, fake conquests. And it's, it's almost like they
• 36:10
  S4: are everything is kind of pointing them towards be passive,
• 36:15
  S4: sit back, be entertained. And the kind of the virtue
• 36:18
  S4: of going after something kind of gets lost. And that's
• 36:22
  S4: certainly the difference. A big difference I see from like
• 36:25
  S4: my dad's generation versus like my son's generation. How do
• 36:28
  S4: we encourage young men? And they love their YouTube and
• 36:31
  S4: they love their video games to go after something.
• 36:34
  S11: Yeah. I try to tell young guys that there's such
• 36:36
  S11: thing as cheap dopamine and real dopamine, and the cheap
• 36:39
  S11: dopamine is what you get on the couch with a screen.
• 36:42
  S11: And that's going to that's going to ruin your life.
• 36:43
  S11: You'll get that hit of dopamine, but you step back
• 36:45
  S11: after 20 years and it's like I've built nothing. I
• 36:48
  S11: might be a level, you know, 300 warlord on my
• 36:50
  S11: video game. But like, you know, what is that worth?
• 36:53
  S11: The real dopamine is out there in the world, what
• 36:55
  S11: God has called you to, where you can step back
• 36:56
  S11: one day and you say, yeah, God did all this,
• 36:58
  S11: but it's pretty cool that he did it through my hands.
• 37:01
  S2: It's interesting. Junior, you're talking about dopamine hits. I see
• 37:04
  S2: a lot of boomer men that have picked up later
• 37:08
  S2: adopters to all the screen stuff, but it is all consuming.
• 37:12
  S2: I've had to fight the battle with, uh, Twitter. Hell,
• 37:16
  S2: I am, uh, Excel. I guess it's called now. Uh,
• 37:19
  S2: because there can be this fake dopamine is constantly knocking
• 37:23
  S2: at our door for attention, right, brother?
• 37:25
  S11: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And there's, there's people, I mean,
• 37:28
  S11: even right now as we speak, there's, there are people
• 37:30
  S11: in labs that are just studying dopamine and, and trying
• 37:33
  S11: to figure out how to make, you know, Twitter or
• 37:35
  S11: X or Facebook, Instagram feed that more and more to us. Yeah.
• 37:40
  S2: You know, junior, you've done a phenomenal job with your book,
• 37:43
  S2: The Manual A Practical Guide to Manhood. Give us one
• 37:46
  S2: surprising truth as you We are even juniors, a phenomenal
• 37:51
  S2: expositor of the word, so I'm sure it came right
• 37:54
  S2: from the pages of Scripture. Is there anything that surprised
• 37:58
  S2: you as you were writing this book?
• 37:59
  S11: You know what sparked that? The writing of that book
• 38:02
  S11: was when I was reading Paul's words, when he said,
• 38:06
  S11: for those men who don't provide for their families, they're
• 38:10
  S11: worse off than an unbeliever. It's like, wow, I mean,
• 38:14
  S11: the apostle Paul just shoots straight. Yeah, but that provide
• 38:17
  S11: is not just financial. It's providing vision. It's providing what
• 38:21
  S11: we just talked about, having some conversations that we don't
• 38:23
  S11: necessarily want to have so that we can have more
• 38:25
  S11: peace in the home, not sweeping things under the rug.
• 38:28
  S11: That's that's provision.
• 38:29
  S2: Yeah.
• 38:30
  S4: Junior Ziegler, our guest this morning, the book is called
• 38:32
  S4: The Manual A Practical Guide to Manhood. Just text manual
• 38:37
  S4: to 805 557898. Manual 805 557898.
• 38:45
  S1: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
• 38:50
  S2: We live in interesting times. Anyone? Give me an amen
• 38:53
  S2: on that one.
• 38:54
  S6: Amen.
• 38:55
  S2: Oh, boy. And one of those real challenges in our
• 39:00
  S2: culture today is what in the world is masculinity? I
• 39:03
  S2: think we fall off the high ridge and the high
• 39:05
  S2: ridge being what I believe is a biblical mandate for
• 39:08
  S2: healthy masculinity, which is leading, loving, servanthood, initiating men who
• 39:14
  S2: are not lording it over people, let alone their the
• 39:17
  S2: women in their lives. But they're serving, they're caring, they're nurturing,
• 39:22
  S2: but they're manly. And that's a beautiful picture. But in
• 39:25
  S2: our culture today, we've got a slide off both sides
• 39:28
  S2: of this high ridge. Doctor Jonathan Griffiths is with me today. Jonathan,
• 39:32
  S2: I just want you to interact with this one on
• 39:34
  S2: me here. I feel like if if the high ridge
• 39:37
  S2: is this leading loving servant, rejecting passivity, accepting responsibility, believing
• 39:42
  S2: God for his reward, we've got in our culture today.
• 39:46
  S2: Two perilous falls off that high ridge. One is passivity.
• 39:50
  S2: Men just go cold and they go silent, and they
• 39:52
  S2: don't initiate and they don't move. It's the atom curse.
• 39:55
  S2: It's that whole thing. But then you get this toxic masculinity.
• 39:59
  S2: It's all over there. I didn't want to give some
• 40:01
  S2: of these big podcasters out there any airtime by naming them.
• 40:04
  S2: It's dressed up in religious garb. What do you say, Jonathan?
• 40:08
  S2: Doctor Jonathan Griffiths is my guest, by the way. He
• 40:11
  S2: is currently the president of Heritage College in seminary. What
• 40:14
  S2: do you think, Jonathan?
• 40:15
  S12: Well, I think you're absolutely right that this is a
• 40:17
  S12: huge issue in our culture today. And, you know, as
• 40:20
  S12: I reflect on it, I think the difficulty we're facing
• 40:23
  S12: flows from the fact that we don't really have any
• 40:26
  S12: concept of what it is to be a human being,
• 40:27
  S12: any concept of what it is to be a man
• 40:29
  S12: or a woman. I mean, we're just so in our culture,
• 40:31
  S12: so deeply confused about humanity. And that leads to all
• 40:35
  S12: kinds of problems. And I think it leads to, yeah,
• 40:38
  S12: a passive masculinity and a toxic masculinity. You put it
• 40:41
  S12: so well. And as I think about it, you know,
• 40:44
  S12: I think again and again that we need to look
• 40:46
  S12: to the supreme human being, the perfect human being, the
• 40:48
  S12: Lord Jesus Christ in his incarnation. And we need to
• 40:52
  S12: learn afresh from him. I think it's as simple as that.
• 40:54
  S12: And I think it's as profound as that at the
• 40:57
  S12: same time, because when we look at the man Christ Jesus,
• 41:00
  S12: we look at the one who knew what it was
• 41:02
  S12: to lead and to set a tone for others about
• 41:05
  S12: him and to point others to the father, but also
• 41:08
  S12: knew what it was to be, you know, gentle and lowly,
• 41:11
  S12: and who set the tone for what it is to serve.
• 41:14
  S2: Yeah, he really did. And then the other side of
• 41:17
  S2: that is you got a guy grabbing granite tabletops in
• 41:21
  S2: the temple, and he's flipping these things over.
• 41:25
  S12: Exactly.
• 41:25
  S2: You know, I think sometimes we want to characterize the
• 41:29
  S2: savior of the world in one or the other of those,
• 41:32
  S2: but they're both end, aren't they, Jonathan?
• 41:35
  S12: They're both in. And he holds them together in perfection.
• 41:38
  S12: And no one else has ever held these things together
• 41:40
  S12: in perfection. So you know, any other model of masculinity
• 41:43
  S12: that we look at is going to be flawed. You know,
• 41:46
  S12: they're always going to be imperfections. But in Jesus, there
• 41:48
  S12: are no imperfections. And that blending of profound strength and
• 41:54
  S12: flawless leadership with such tenderness. I mean, I don't think
• 41:58
  S12: that's an overstatement. Gentleness, kindness, humility. I mean, who else
• 42:03
  S12: has embodied that perfectly? But he is what the world needs.
• 42:07
  S12: I mean, that shouldn't be a surprise for us to
• 42:08
  S12: say his believers. But, you know, Jesus is who we
• 42:11
  S12: need if we're going to get masculinity right.
• 42:13
  S2: How do we get there? How do we get there? Okay.
• 42:16
  S2: I think most we got tens of thousands of people
• 42:19
  S2: listening to you right now. Right now, a lot of
• 42:21
  S2: them are good men, some of whom I think a
• 42:24
  S2: lot of the malady for men is passivity. But sometimes
• 42:29
  S2: then we in order to get away from that, we
• 42:31
  S2: swing into this toxic kind of, you know, this headship role,
• 42:36
  S2: which isn't anything about authority. It's about responsibility. But how
• 42:40
  S2: do we get there?
• 42:41
  S12: Well, I think we got to look to him. You know,
• 42:43
  S12: I think that the whole role of Christian witness in
• 42:45
  S12: the world, it's the whole role of Christian ministry. It's
• 42:48
  S12: it's what you're involved in full time, pointing people to
• 42:50
  S12: look at Jesus. And it's what I'm involved in, in
• 42:53
  S12: my ministry. And, you know, the Bible passage that's so
• 42:55
  S12: much on my mind as we think about these things.
• 42:57
  S12: And as we're chatting here, Carl is, is Philippians two
• 43:00
  S12: where Paul says, you know, to the believers, have this
• 43:03
  S12: mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who
• 43:07
  S12: though he was in the form of God, did not
• 43:09
  S12: count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but
• 43:11
  S12: made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant. And
• 43:15
  S12: you know, we've got to look to Jesus, and we've
• 43:17
  S12: got to get to know Jesus. But it's more than
• 43:19
  S12: simply having an intellectual understanding of him, because we can.
• 43:22
  S12: Lots of people know something about Jesus. But until you're
• 43:26
  S12: in relationship with Jesus and have the power of His
• 43:29
  S12: Spirit working within you to change you, there's no hope.
• 43:32
  S12: Because I can't be this kind of person on my own.
• 43:35
  S12: But if Jesus is doing something in my heart to
• 43:38
  S12: change me, to make me more like himself. Well, that's
• 43:40
  S12: a whole different matter. And that's the heart of the
• 43:42
  S12: Christian gospel.
• 43:43
  S2: Yeah. And the the character of Jesus, I think, is
• 43:46
  S2: first and foremost loving, caring. I mean, he, he came
• 43:51
  S2: on a love mission. God so loved the world that
• 43:53
  S2: he sent his son. So he came on a mission
• 43:55
  S2: of love. And oftentimes we don't talk about love or
• 43:58
  S2: we misconstrue love. But love has this emotive empathy for
• 44:04
  S2: where a person is and then the capacity to help
• 44:08
  S2: them out of it, whatever that may look like. Our
• 44:12
  S2: Savior is an amazing model of both strength, the courage
• 44:18
  S2: to speak when he needs to, especially to the religious
• 44:22
  S2: that were frauds, not to the unsaved world. I don't
• 44:25
  S2: see him getting bombastic toward the unsaved world, but it's
• 44:29
  S2: this unique blend of empathy and boldness, and I don't
• 44:35
  S2: know that we can cultivate this apart from. And I've
• 44:39
  S2: been hitting this a lot lately. This is not a
• 44:42
  S2: knowledge thing. This is a meet with Jesus. Look at
• 44:45
  S2: his life and say, help me God. This is a
• 44:49
  S2: cry of the soul, isn't it, brother?
• 44:50
  S12: It is because we need heart transformation. Because as much
• 44:53
  S12: as we might try to be like this on our own,
• 44:55
  S12: we just find ourselves. You know, we hit a wall
• 44:57
  S12: and we're incapable. We can't do it. I mean, the
• 45:00
  S12: promise of the gospel is that he'll help us by
• 45:03
  S12: His Spirit if we submit our lives to him. And
• 45:05
  S12: that's what he does. Not immediately, not all at once,
• 45:08
  S12: but little bit by little bit. So you can look
• 45:11
  S12: back month by month and year by year and say,
• 45:13
  S12: you know, he's changing me and he's making me a
• 45:15
  S12: little bit more like this. We rejoice in that and
• 45:17
  S12: we give thanks and we say, well, you've done it.
• 45:19
  S12: I haven't done it.
• 45:20
  S2: You know, you just said something on a flyby, but
• 45:22
  S2: I believe you really mean it by his spirit. I've
• 45:27
  S2: spent a whole week on this, and we've been going
• 45:29
  S2: after this for some time. He was the lost god
• 45:31
  S2: for many evangelicals for a lot of years. I think
• 45:34
  S2: there's a resurgence of wow. Hold it. It is to
• 45:37
  S2: our advantage that the Holy Spirit came. How does that
• 45:40
  S2: work for a man who's wanting to be not passive,
• 45:43
  S2: not toxic? How do we begin to walk in the spirit?
• 45:47
  S12: Well, I think it is by coming to the Lord
• 45:49
  S12: and saying, help me. I mean, you articulated a moment ago,
• 45:52
  S12: that's the posture that's going to bring about life transformation.
• 45:55
  S12: That's the posture that receives salvation that says, I can't
• 45:57
  S12: do this on my own. And, you know, I'm sure
• 45:59
  S12: there'll be a lot of men listening even to this
• 46:01
  S12: segment just now who have hit a wall and realize,
• 46:04
  S12: you know what? I'm not able to be the kind
• 46:06
  S12: of man I want to be. I'm not able to
• 46:08
  S12: be the kind of boss I want to be. I'm
• 46:09
  S12: not able to be the kind of husband and father
• 46:11
  S12: I want to be. I'm not able to be the
• 46:12
  S12: kind of employee I want to be. I've tried and
• 46:15
  S12: I'm disappointing myself, and I'm disappointing those around me. And
• 46:18
  S12: it's actually a great posture because when we realize that
• 46:21
  S12: we cannot do it on our own, we're then ready
• 46:24
  S12: and humility and this is tough for guys sometimes, you know,
• 46:27
  S12: in humility to say, I need some help. And the
• 46:29
  S12: one who can help us is the Lord Jesus Christ
• 46:31
  S12: who came to serve us and to save us to
• 46:35
  S12: die on the cross for us, and then offers us
• 46:37
  S12: the gift not only of forgiveness and a fresh start,
• 46:39
  S12: but power by His Spirit who lives within us to
• 46:42
  S12: change us from the inside out.
• 46:44
  S2: This is so important, you know. I want you to
• 46:47
  S2: interact with this editor, Robert Lewis, on. He's the founder
• 46:49
  S2: of Better Man. He wrote men's fraternity curriculum, godly guy.
• 46:53
  S2: He made the statement just off the cuff. He said,
• 46:56
  S2: men need to be activated. They need to act. This
• 47:00
  S2: is why I think most men read the stories of
• 47:04
  S2: Stephen preaching boldly, and then they're I mean, they're just
• 47:07
  S2: furious that he spoke, what he spoke, and he stoned
• 47:10
  S2: to death for the name of Jesus. And you see, uh,
• 47:13
  S2: deliverances from jailhouse and all kinds of stuff. There's something
• 47:18
  S2: very enticing, I think, to a man that's a healthy
• 47:21
  S2: enticement that to go on this adventure with God into
• 47:25
  S2: things that I don't normally do is one of the
• 47:28
  S2: greatest journeys we can go on. What do you say, brother?
• 47:32
  S12: Oh, I think it is. I mean, we all need
• 47:34
  S12: a vision, you know, for what we can be and
• 47:36
  S12: what we can contribute. And the vision of the Christian
• 47:39
  S12: life is not one that maybe initially appeals to us naturally,
• 47:43
  S12: because it's a vision of service and of becoming more
• 47:46
  S12: like the Lord Jesus Christ, and of being the kind
• 47:48
  S12: of person actually, who is able to help others get
• 47:51
  S12: to know the Lord and grow in relationship with him.
• 47:54
  S12: That's not I'm taking over the world and I'm, you know,
• 47:56
  S12: I'm going to be successful and famous. It's not that
• 47:58
  S12: kind of vision, but it's a vision shaped by who
• 48:00
  S12: Jesus is. And I think as we go on in
• 48:02
  S12: life as men and as we fail in a few things,
• 48:04
  S12: as we all do, and we realize our limitations, this
• 48:07
  S12: vision of being transformed from the inside out so that
• 48:11
  S12: we can serve the people around us and point them
• 48:14
  S12: to Christ and be a help and encouragement to them.
• 48:16
  S12: A vision of Christlike service. I think that actually gets
• 48:19
  S12: more and more appealing to us over time. And I'm
• 48:22
  S12: really encouraged. I don't know what you're seeing in your community,
• 48:25
  S12: in your local church, Carl, but I'm so encouraged to
• 48:27
  S12: see men, in particular younger men taking an interest in
• 48:30
  S12: the gospel. Yes, in in ways and in numbers that
• 48:33
  S12: I haven't seen really ever before. Actually, this vision of
• 48:37
  S12: the Christian life is catching on and its appeal.
• 48:39
  S2: Yeah, it really is. Give us a story from your
• 48:42
  S2: own life of when manhood had to make a shift
• 48:46
  S2: for you.
• 48:47
  S12: I think there's been a progression in my own life.
• 48:50
  S12: Just I'll speak about my own family. We. I'm married
• 48:53
  S12: to Gemma. We've got three kids. And, you know, I'm
• 48:56
  S12: an active kind of person, and I like to do
• 48:58
  S12: a lot of things and take on a lot of things.
• 49:01
  S12: I think as we've gone on raising our kids and
• 49:06
  S12: investing in family life, one shift that I've noticed in
• 49:09
  S12: my own mind and my own heart is the thing
• 49:12
  S12: I prize most of all. And the thing I want
• 49:15
  S12: to invest in most of all is serving my family
• 49:19
  S12: and investing in my marriage and my kids. You know,
• 49:22
  S12: I'm still interested in serving in wider sphere. Sure. But
• 49:26
  S12: these things, which maybe aren't so public and visible year
• 49:31
  S12: by year, I think I realize this is the precious gift.
• 49:34
  S12: This is the place where I can maybe have the
• 49:36
  S12: greatest impact. This is my chief calling of service. I
• 49:40
  S12: think that has just become ever increasingly important to me
• 49:44
  S12: and ever increasingly precious to me. And I think that's
• 49:47
  S12: something that the Lord's doing in my heart.
• 49:49
  S2: Yeah. And that's so beautiful. It authenticates your ministry. And
• 49:53
  S2: for anyone listening, it not only authenticates something that's most
• 49:58
  S2: important to God's heart, but it also ultimately elevates. Because
• 50:03
  S2: when you humble yourself under God's mighty hand, he will
• 50:05
  S2: lift you up in due time. That's a powerful truth, Jonathan.
• 50:09
  S12: And it's again, the story of Christ. I mean, you
• 50:11
  S12: know what I was referencing a moment ago from Philippians two?
• 50:14
  S12: I mean, ultimately the father highly exalted the Lord Jesus,
• 50:18
  S12: who humbled himself even to death on the cross. And
• 50:20
  S12: and that's the shape of the Christian life. Actually, it's,
• 50:23
  S12: you know, we go down in service, as it were, before.
• 50:25
  S12: The Lord raises us up in glory and we have
• 50:28
  S12: to be willing to embrace the service. I think fundamentally masculinity,
• 50:33
  S12: biblical masculinity is about Christ like service. I think that's
• 50:36
  S12: what it's about.
• 50:37
  S2: Amen. That is so good. You must get stories, Jonathan.
• 50:41
  S2: Give us one. My man.
• 50:42
  S12: I do we we hear from listeners on the program
• 50:45
  S12: Encounter the Truth listeners on Moody Radio regularly about how
• 50:48
  S12: the Word of God is touching their hearts and lives. And,
• 50:51
  S12: you know, as we were just chatting about biblical masculinity,
• 50:53
  S12: I was reminded of one of the most precious letters
• 50:55
  S12: I've ever received from a radio listener. And this was
• 50:59
  S12: a young dad in the state of Indiana who wrote
• 51:02
  S12: in to me one morning and he said, you know, I,
• 51:05
  S12: I caught the program last night and you were you
• 51:08
  S12: were teaching on James chapter three, and he said, I
• 51:11
  S12: had just had a brutal day. I worked construction, he said,
• 51:14
  S12: I got home absolutely tired and my fuse was short
• 51:17
  S12: and I was not gracious with my wife and my kids.
• 51:20
  S12: And he said, look, I stepped out of the house
• 51:22
  S12: just because I was worried I was going to say
• 51:24
  S12: something I didn't want to say. I got out of there.
• 51:26
  S12: I got in my truck. I turned on the radio.
• 51:28
  S12: It was moody radio. It was Encounter the Truth. You
• 51:31
  S12: were speaking on James chapter three and on The power
• 51:34
  S12: of the tongue, and he said, The Holy Spirit got
• 51:36
  S12: me just right to my heart. I was cut to
• 51:39
  S12: the heart and I went home and I said to
• 51:43
  S12: my family, I've been wrong. This was not godly. I
• 51:45
  S12: need your forgiveness and I want to start again. I
• 51:48
  S12: want to be the kind of father and the kind
• 51:50
  S12: of man that the Scripture calls me to be. Can
• 51:52
  S12: we make a fresh start? And he wrote to me
• 51:54
  S12: the next morning, he said, The Word of God has
• 51:56
  S12: just brought about a transformation in my heart. I was
• 51:59
  S12: so encouraged. What a model as well for me and
• 52:01
  S12: for others to be willing to hear the Word of God,
• 52:04
  S12: to be moved by the spirit and to step into
• 52:07
  S12: the kind of masculinity, actually, that the Word of God
• 52:09
  S12: is calling us to.
• 52:10
  S2: Beautiful. You're hearing that right now, and you might say, man,
• 52:13
  S2: give me a link to some more of what he
• 52:15
  S2: has to offer. Doctor Jonathan Griffiths my guest text the
• 52:19
  S2: word encounter. Just one word encounter to 805 557898, 805,
• 52:27
  S2: 5578981 word encounter and check them out right here on
• 52:32
  S2: Moody Radio.
• 52:34
  S1: Celebrating the Unstoppable gospel.
• 52:37
  S5: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes,
• 52:39
  S5: so he's okay with me, but it's that I get
• 52:41
  S5: to stand close to him so that I can experience
• 52:44
  S5: the life that he has for me.
• 52:46
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew gonna.
• 52:50
  S2: Pop in about one time a day. One, one shot
• 52:55
  S2: a day. Just to let everyone know. And believe it
• 52:57
  S2: or not, some of you are tuning in and you're
• 53:01
  S2: going to hear this for the first time and you're like,
• 53:04
  S2: all aboard! I'm in. You know what this is?
• 53:07
  S5: Dancing with that clap.
• 53:09
  S6: I almost instinctively triggered like what?
• 53:12
  S2: Oh, I get so embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. Do you ever
• 53:15
  S2: embarrass yourself, guys?
• 53:16
  S6: Yes, yes.
• 53:17
  S4: All the.
• 53:17
  S2: Time. Okay, so when I when I've done that, I
• 53:21
  S2: was it's been some time ago now. I was doing
• 53:24
  S2: a wedding and then we had a little dance afterward.
• 53:27
  S2: And sure enough, I go out on the dance floor
• 53:30
  S2: and with my bride and I did one clap. And
• 53:33
  S2: then I start moving. It's like, that's my switch.
• 53:36
  S5: That's your on.
• 53:37
  S4: Button.
• 53:37
  S2: That's my on.
• 53:38
  S6: Button.
• 53:39
  S4: Dance mode activated.
• 53:40
  S2: Oh, boy. So I'm not dancing, but I'm pretty thrilled
• 53:44
  S2: about this. So Ali, what are the details?
• 53:46
  S4: I don't know that there's dancing on this cruise, but
• 53:48
  S4: there's a whole lot of discipleship on this Moody Radio
• 53:51
  S4: cruise to Alaska 2027. So this is a year out,
• 53:55
  S4: June 5th through the 12th. Lots of opportunities to still
• 53:59
  S4: get on board. Literally this great teaching by Doctor Michael Riedel.
• 54:03
  S4: Nick Karl's going to be teaching as well. Micah Tyler
• 54:05
  S4: providing the worship opportunity to really connect with other believers
• 54:09
  S4: really from all around the country. As you take in
• 54:11
  S4: the beauty of Alaska, I want to make sure that
• 54:13
  S4: you know about it and that you're invited to participate.
• 54:16
  S4: Talk about it. Pray about it. Just text Cruz to
• 54:19
  S4: 800 555, 78, 98. All that you'll need to know
• 54:24
  S4: is contained in this one link. And if there's any
• 54:26
  S4: questions you don't have, there's a phone number there that
• 54:28
  S4: you can call to get support as well. So just
• 54:30
  S4: text Cruz to 805 557898.
• 54:35
  S2: Yeah. Thank you so much. It's going to be great
• 54:37
  S2: to see you. I'm getting texts now and then we're
• 54:40
  S2: up to our number here. People saying, I got my cabin.
• 54:44
  S2: I'm so fired up. It is. And by the way,
• 54:47
  S2: half of these half the fun of these trips is
• 54:49
  S2: anticipating it.
• 54:51
  S5: Oh yeah. Absolutely.
• 54:53
  S2: Have you ever noticed that about good events? Counting down
• 54:55
  S2: the days.
• 54:55
  S4: Something to look forward to?
• 54:56
  S5: Yes, 100%.
• 54:58
  S2: Yes. It's so cool. So text Cruz, get all the details,
• 55:01
  S2: get signed up 805 five, five, 78, 98.
• 55:06
  S5: Well, it made me think, Carl, you just talked about
• 55:08
  S5: embarrassing ourselves for all of us. What's the most embarrassing
• 55:12
  S5: thing you can remember that you did that embarrassed yourself?
• 55:16
  S6: Wow. Mine's recent.
• 55:17
  S5: Okay. It doesn't have to be the most. But think
• 55:19
  S5: of one. That's funny.
• 55:20
  S2: All right, we're gonna let somebody take this one question today.
• 55:24
  S6: I fell over the cat, and I'm still nursing a
• 55:27
  S6: twisted ankle with a lot of torn ligaments, but, yeah,
• 55:30
  S6: I twisted and fell over the cat. That's embarrassing.
• 55:33
  S5: That's no good.
• 55:35
  S13: How's your.
• 55:35
  S2: So this is timely. How is your foot healing up?
• 55:39
  S6: It's healing. It really is. But I decided to bang
• 55:42
  S6: it this weekend accidentally on something and.
• 55:45
  S4: Oh, no.
• 55:45
  S13: Oh.
• 55:46
  S6: Embarrassing.
• 55:47
  S5: You kicked another cat?
• 55:48
  S6: No. It was the dog.
• 55:52
  S5: It was the dog.
• 55:53
  S2: Let it go, Jonathan.
• 55:55
  S6: No, I'm getting into the car. And it was somebody
• 55:57
  S6: else's car. You know how you swing your leg in?
• 55:59
  S6: I wasn't looking you just like, you know, the height
• 56:01
  S6: of your own car. I don't know what I was thinking,
• 56:03
  S6: and you didn't.
• 56:04
  S2: Lift it up high enough.
• 56:05
  S6: And it went bang.
• 56:06
  S5: Right.
• 56:06
  S6: Into the side.
• 56:07
  S4: That's not good.
• 56:08
  S2: I can see it. So you're getting in the driver's side.
• 56:10
  S2: It's your right foot. You don't lift it up high enough. Bang.
• 56:13
  S6: And I'm like, right. You're kidding, right, Diana? You're kidding.
• 56:16
  S6: I just stood there like an embarrassment. Number two.
• 56:20
  S5: Oh, but there's worse.
• 56:23
  S2: Okay. Uh, so we're on this topic of chivalry here today,
• 56:27
  S2: and Ali, uh, pulled a young man on this topic.
• 56:32
  S2: Can't wait to hear it. Yes. Ready to.
• 56:34
  S4: Go? Yeah. My son's 13 years old, and so I
• 56:37
  S4: told him what we were talking about this week, and
• 56:39
  S4: I said, what do you think are the top qualities
• 56:43
  S4: that an honorable man needs to have? And of course,
• 56:46
  S4: the initial response was not, mom, I'd really love to
• 56:49
  S4: help you with this. I love these long conversations in
• 56:51
  S4: the car on the way to my basketball games. He
• 56:54
  S4: was like, um, how many do you want? I said,
• 56:58
  S4: let's go with the top three. But once he like
• 57:00
  S4: locked in and was was content that this is the
• 57:03
  S4: time that we have. And I guess this conversation is happening.
• 57:06
  S4: He really was very thoughtful about it. He came up
• 57:08
  S4: with two pretty quickly. The third one, he really thought deeply.
• 57:12
  S4: You want to hear his list?
• 57:13
  S2: Yes.
• 57:14
  S4: Number one, he said, was that an honorable man needs
• 57:17
  S4: to give. They need to be a giver.
• 57:20
  S6: Smart.
• 57:20
  S4: They need to be able to give their time. They
• 57:23
  S4: need to be able to give financially, even when they
• 57:25
  S4: don't really want to. Number two was most surprising. He
• 57:30
  S4: said that an honorable man needs to be able to
• 57:32
  S4: listen good. I was traumatized by that. And I'll tell
• 57:36
  S4: you the funny story he gave me about that one.
• 57:38
  S4: After I tell you. Number three, a man who's honorable
• 57:42
  S4: needs to be able to sacrifice. There's going to be
• 57:44
  S4: plenty of times, he said, where there's going to be
• 57:47
  S4: things that you don't want to do. And the example
• 57:49
  S4: he gave, maybe you want to go hang out with
• 57:51
  S4: your friends, but there's things that need to be taken
• 57:53
  S4: care of at home. You need to be able to
• 57:55
  S4: sacrifice the thing that you want to do. And I said,
• 57:58
  S4: tell me more about this. Listen one, he goes, well,
• 58:01
  S4: sometimes when you get married, you're going to have to
• 58:04
  S4: listen to your wife talk your ear off and maybe
• 58:07
  S4: you're not going to want to.
• 58:09
  S5: Oh my goodness.
• 58:10
  S4: Maybe in that moment you don't want to hear all
• 58:13
  S4: of that, but you need to be able to listen.
• 58:16
  S4: I said, where in the world would you get an
• 58:18
  S4: idea like that? When have you seen a wife talk
• 58:20
  S4: her husband's ear off? He goes, well, mom, you do.
• 58:26
  S4: I said, well, I'm sitting here.
• 58:28
  S2: I'm not saying a thing. Let the story roll.
• 58:33
  S4: And I said, well, okay, that's a good observation. He goes,
• 58:36
  S4: and then there's going to be times maybe your kid
• 58:38
  S4: has something that he they want to say. And you
• 58:41
  S4: got to just be able to listen to be a
• 58:44
  S4: good man. And so.
• 58:46
  S6: Smart kiddo.
• 58:47
  S4: I thought, well, he gave good, honest answers and I,
• 58:51
  S4: and I agree.
• 58:52
  S2: Where'd you get that from canon?
• 58:54
  S4: I can't, I can't disagree. And the fact that he
• 58:57
  S4: picked up on that. Yeah. You need to be able
• 58:59
  S4: to listen. Your wife's going to give you sometimes more
• 59:02
  S4: words than you'd like. And then he also said his
• 59:05
  S4: sister does the same because he has.
• 59:09
  S6: Oh.
• 59:10
  S4: Your wife or your 16 year old daughter?
• 59:13
  S2: He. That was a convenient shot across the bow of
• 59:17
  S2: his big sis, and I love it.
• 59:19
  S4: Both of us apparently are guilty. So my poor husband
• 59:22
  S4: Henry has to hear it from two directions.
• 59:24
  S2: Oh, he's a good man. He is.
• 59:26
  S4: And that's.
• 59:27
  S2: Those are great.
• 59:28
  S4: You agree?
• 59:29
  S6: Yes.
• 59:30
  S2: He's killing.
• 59:30
  S4: It. Give. Listen. Sacrifice.
• 59:32
  S2: It's biblical. It's biblical. Oh my goodness, guys, this is
• 59:39
  S2: a call out to all men. Let's go after chivalry. Oh, man.
• 59:43
  S2: What if we had an awakening of chivalry here today? Uh.
• 59:46
  S2: No joking. What if every man listening said. I'm going
• 59:52
  S2: to be a sacrificing, loving servant to my bride? Every
• 59:59
  S2: man listened and said, it won't be perfect, but I'm
• 1:00:02
  S2: going to step that way. Oh, amazing stuff would happen here.