Latest / MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast / MC Fireside Chats - October 7th, 2026

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MC Fireside Chats - October 7th, 2026 · MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

• 0:46
  Brian Searl: Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 0:48
  Brian Searl: My name is Brian Searl with Insider Perks and Modern Campground.
• 0:50
  Brian Searl: Excited to be here with you for another first-week episode.
• 0:52
  Brian Searl: It's already October, can you guys believe that?
• 0:55
  Brian Searl: Like, we always say that when the year starts every year, and I'm like 40-something now.
• 1:00
  Brian Searl: I don't know how old I am.
• 1:01
  Brian Searl: I don't- I stopped keeping track at like 20.
• 1:03
  Brian Searl: But every year we say, like in January, "Oh, the year's gonna go by fast.
• 1:06
  Brian Searl: The year's gonna go by fast.
• 1:07
  Brian Searl: It's a new year."
• 1:08
  Brian Searl: And then like it just, I don't know, it seems to go faster every year, but maybe that's just 'cause I'm older and I don't remember half the things that happened in the year anymore.
• 1:16
  Brian Searl: Is that why...
• 1:17
  Brian Searl: Scott, you're older than I am, right?
• 1:19
  Brian Searl: Is that what happens?
• 1:19
  Scott Bahr: Oh.
• 1:19
  Brian Searl: Do I have like that to look forward to?
• 1:21
  Scott Bahr: I'm, I'm...
• 1:23
  Scott Bahr: Yes.
• 1:24
  Scott Bahr: Yes, you do.
• 1:25
  Scott Bahr: I was-
• 1:25
  Brian Searl: You remember that that's what actually happens, or?
• 1:27
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 1:27
  Scott Bahr: I'd like to.
• 1:31
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 1:31
  Brian Searl: Uh.
• 1:32
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Scott Bahr: It goes by really fast.
• 1:34
  Scott Bahr: It really does.
• 1:35
  Brian Searl: Yeah, and you just wake up and you're like, "Ah, I thought 2025 was yesterday.
• 1:38
  Brian Searl: That's all I remember."
• 1:39
  Brian Searl: So-
• 1:39
  Scott Bahr: A couple weeks ago I had brown hair.
• 1:41
  Scott Bahr: It's like...
• 1:43
  Brian Searl: A couple weeks ago I had hair at all, so, you know.
• 1:47
  Brian Searl: Uh, all right, we're excited to be here for another episode.
• 1:49
  Brian Searl: We got a couple recurring guests.
• 1:50
  Brian Searl: Uh, we'll go around the room and let everybody introduce themselves, uh, starting with my dog, Riley, right here, who is a lap dog, so.
• 1:58
  Brian Searl: Uh, all right.
• 1:59
  Brian Searl: Go ahead guys, who wants to start?
• 2:00
  Brian Searl: Scott?
• 2:01
  Scott Bahr: All right.
• 2:01
  Scott Bahr: Scott Bahr, president of Cairn Consulting Group, where we do market research and analysis across all different sectors of outdoor hospitality and dabble in some other sectors as well outside this, but we don't wanna talk about that, so- we'll
• 2:15
  Scott Bahr: move on.
• 2:16
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Scott.
• 2:17
  Brian Searl: Simon?
• 2:19
  Simon Neal: Yeah.
• 2:19
  Simon Neal: Simon Neal, founder and CEO of CampMap.
• 2:21
  Simon Neal: We help outdoor hospitality businesses improve their marketing and guest experience with premium digital and printable maps.
• 2:30
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Simon.
• 2:31
  Brian Searl: Michael.
• 2:33
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 2:33
  Michael Moore: Uh, Michael Moore, assistant executive director for Texas Association of Campground Owners, uh, and also general manager of AGS Guest Guides, so providing the prints and, uh, digital marketing for campgrounds all over.
• 2:47
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here again, sir.
• 2:48
  Brian Searl: Mr.
• 2:48
  Brian Searl: Phil.
• 2:50
  Phil Ingrassia: Hi, I'm Phil Ingrassia, president of RVDA.
• 2:53
  Phil Ingrassia: We represent US travel trailer and motor home dealers.
• 2:59
  Brian Searl: Last but not least, Cathy
• 3:02
  Cathy Reinard: Um, my name is Cathy Reinard.
• 3:03
  Cathy Reinard: I am the national director for the Campground Brokers of America brokerage.
• 3:08
  Cathy Reinard: I am the Own a KOA broker, um, and I am a campground owner, and so I'm wearing a lot of hats.
• 3:16
  Cathy Reinard: And so I am thrilled that it's October, because I have a seasonal park, and this is our last weekend, but I love the space.
• 3:25
  Cathy Reinard: I've been in it for almost 30 years.
• 3:27
  Cathy Reinard: Next year will be 30, and, um, just continuing to learn new things and, uh, learn more about today's camper.
• 3:37
  Brian Searl: Cathy, before we get started, I just had a quick question for you.
• 3:39
  Brian Searl: I forgot, you told us what the OHI board of directors results were.
• 3:42
  Brian Searl: What were they again?
• 3:43
  Cathy Reinard: Ha, ha, ha.
• 3:44
  Cathy Reinard: Nice try.
• 3:45
  Cathy Reinard: Real good try.
• 3:46
  Michael Moore: No, they're gonna wait, they're gonna wait for the press release, Brian.
• 3:49
  Michael Moore: You know that.
• 3:50
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 3:50
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 3:50
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 3:51
  Brian Searl: Uh, so we normally turn this to our recurring guests, uh, Scott, Simon, Phil, and, uh, Michael.
• 3:57
  Brian Searl: Just, uh, is there anything that's come across your desk in the last month since we've all been together on the show that just, uh, you think we should be talking about?
• 4:06
  Scott Bahr: I mean, from, from my perspective, I think the, you know, right now we're, we're all starting to, uh, take the look ahead to 2027.
• 4:13
  Scott Bahr: Um, you know, we're planning our, our annual, um, survey with, for, for KOA.
• 4:20
  Scott Bahr: Um, do- you know, we're, we're in the midst of doing, um, some, some good stuff with OHI.
• 4:25
  Scott Bahr: We're in the midst of our quar- our, our look ahead to the fall and holiday season with, um, our RVIA and Go RVing.
• 4:34
  Scott Bahr: So it's a, it's a super busy time and it's su- it's really exciting and I'm just...
• 4:39
  Scott Bahr: I think Brian earlier you asked about numbers.
• 4:41
  Scott Bahr: I haven't seen any, um, I, I really haven't, but we're g- we're gonna have a bunch and, and wait for the fire hose of information that's coming out that's, you know, the end of this year and early next
• 4:51
  Scott Bahr: year 'cause, um, it's gonna be pretty exciting.
• 4:53
  Scott Bahr: We have a couple new initiatives.
• 4:55
  Scott Bahr: Um, so that's what's coming across my desk a lot.
• 4:58
  Scott Bahr: A lot has.
• 4:58
  Scott Bahr: Plus I was at the Glamping Show last week, so.
• 5:00
  Brian Searl: Yeah, tell us about the Glamping Show.
• 5:02
  Brian Searl: Like, I, I'm, and I'm running numbers by the way for Outwired later, so I, if they work.
• 5:06
  Scott Bahr: Oh, okay.
• 5:06
  Brian Searl: Like I'm trying to pull them from the database, but obviously I'm not up there watching it, so hopefully it's working.
• 5:10
  Scott Bahr: So you don't wanna share 'em with, with Simon and Phil and Michael and Cathy?
• 5:13
  Brian Searl: I don't know what they are, man.
• 5:14
  Brian Searl: Like, I, I tried to get 'em really quickly and it was like trying to scan 2 million tables of the index and, like, it, it wasn't working, man.
• 5:21
  Brian Searl: So sorry Simon and Phil.
• 5:23
  Scott Bahr: But, um, at the end of the show we're gonna pass around the hat so Brian can get a new computer.
• 5:27
  Scott Bahr: Um, but, um, overall, no, the Glamping Show, it was, it was interesting, you know, having been there, I think this is my fifth year being there.
• 5:37
  Scott Bahr: Um, it's, um...
• 5:39
  Scott Bahr: Oh, there's Miguel.
• 5:40
  Scott Bahr: Speaking of the Glamping Show, there he is.
• 5:42
  Scott Bahr: Um- Uh, th- saw Miguel last week as, as well briefly, uh, way too briefly as always.
• 5:48
  Scott Bahr: But, um, yeah, for, from, you know, my perspective and the, the, the traffic at each year we see a, a bit of a change in, in the, the questions and the queries we get from, from people.
• 6:00
  Scott Bahr: Um, so this year was a, uh, it was interesting in that there were a number of people who seemed to be a little bit, um, further along in their, their information gathering process.
• 6:13
  Scott Bahr: Many who took it, it as far as they could.
• 6:15
  Scott Bahr: They're using some tools or using some AI, but then felt like they needed to, um, you know, go find some additional help once they got to that point, which was great.
• 6:25
  Scott Bahr: The other thing that we heard from were more people this year I felt like, um, hadn't even purchased property yet, which I was really happy about because they ha- they weren't out there just buying a property and thinking
• 6:40
  Scott Bahr: they're gonna slap something down on it.
• 6:41
  Scott Bahr: They were actually gonna do their due diligence- Mm-hmm selecting a property, which I, to me, shows a little bit more sophistication in the market overall.
• 6:52
  Scott Bahr: So that was...
• 6:53
  Scott Bahr: I thought that was fairly en- encouraging.
• 6:56
  Scott Bahr: Um, and it, it, I talked to a couple manufacturers, um, uh, there and, um, for example, you know, one w- was Cavco and they, they're, they seem to be really busy.
• 7:09
  Scott Bahr: They have some really big projects going on.
• 7:10
  Scott Bahr: They seem, they seemed happy, you know?
• 7:13
  Scott Bahr: Th- th- amazing how that works.
• 7:15
  Scott Bahr: Um, and then talked to a couple others who, um, sold more units this year than they did last year.
• 7:21
  Scott Bahr: Good.
• 7:21
  Scott Bahr: So it's like it was a different kind of attendee maybe this year, um, than, than in the past.
• 7:27
  Scott Bahr: So that's, that's kinda my, my, uh, initial takeaways.
• 7:31
  Brian Searl: And you and I talked about this briefly on a chat, like, but I, I'm curious your thoughts just briefly, and then I wanna ask Miguel while we're on the glamping show what his thoughts of, of the show was
• 7:39
  Brian Searl: too.
• 7:40
  Brian Searl: Uh, but just 'cause I wasn't there this year.
• 7:43
  Brian Searl: Um, but just, uh, you know, we talk about the AI thing specifically, right?
• 7:47
  Brian Searl: And, and I think, I think this helps our industry.
• 7:50
  Brian Searl: I think there's some, there's some people who are a very small minority who it hurts, but I think the people doing the research in advance with AI, asking all their questions, getting all the low-hanging fruit outta the way,
• 8:00
  Brian Searl: makes them a more qualified buyer, doesn't it?
• 8:03
  Brian Searl: I mean, there are probably exceptions to that rule- but generally speaking.
• 8:06
  Brian Searl: That's true.
• 8:06
  Brian Searl: And so I think the people who are at the, the high end of the expertise like you or Greg Emmert or some of the other consultants, you know, I think Advanced Outdoor Management was probably there.
• 8:16
  Brian Searl: Uh, sorry, I can't remember the, the, the name who used to run it.
• 8:19
  Brian Searl: Kathleen, uh, doesn't run it anymore, but Kathleen was probably there at the show.
• 8:22
  Brian Searl: So those, those people I think at the high end it helps, right?
• 8:27
  Scott Bahr: Absolutely.
• 8:27
  Scott Bahr: It, it does because you, you, what you have is, you know, someone that has a, a, a decent, um, base of knowledge already and they, they, they...
• 8:38
  Scott Bahr: What it helps them with is to know what they don't know.
• 8:41
  Scott Bahr: And that, you know, to bring that to the plate, um, is tremendously helpful in terms of being able to be more efficient, um, and get through the process a little bit quicker.
• 8:51
  Scott Bahr: The edu- What, what it seems to me is that they're more educated overall with the terminology, the, you know, the, the items that are, that need to feed into the, the planning, all those things.
• 9:04
  Scott Bahr: Um, and then, and then it's up to the consultants to, to fill in those blanks for them at that point, but they at least know what goes in there and what, what needs to be fulfilled to move on.
• 9:15
  Brian Searl: How long do you think it's there before they get there in marketing?
• 9:17
  Brian Searl: Like, I really need the, the owners to be more educated in marketing before they do-
• 9:21
  Scott Bahr: That's never gonna happen.
• 9:24
  Scott Bahr: If anything.
• 9:24
  Brian Searl: It is quite...
• 9:26
  Scott Bahr: it's one of those things where, um, I think they will to...
• 9:29
  Scott Bahr: It, it, it will happen, but I, I feel like there's the, the real desire to hand that off as well to, to people who know more about it than, than they do.
• 9:40
  Scott Bahr: Um, you know, it's, it, it's one of the things that's nice for many people now is having the tools at their disposal so they can, you know, devote their resources to other stuff, to managing the parks, to managing
• 9:51
  Scott Bahr: their staff, and, and interacting with their guests, which is I'm a huge advocate of.
• 9:56
  Scott Bahr: So, you know, the whole hospitality part of the equation, that, that seems to be, um, where, what I hear a lot that I...
• 10:05
  Scott Bahr: When you say marketing to people, they give you, sometimes they give you a funny look.
• 10:08
  Scott Bahr: Um, and I know where that comes from, so
• 10:11
  Brian Searl: Mostly from me.
• 10:12
  Brian Searl: Yep, that's where it come from.
• 10:14
  Brian Searl: Yep.
• 10:14
  Brian Searl: Uh, Mi- Miguel, uh, please introduce yourself.
• 10:17
  Brian Searl: It's been a couple week or a couple months since you've seen me on the show.
• 10:19
  Brian Searl: Welcome back.
• 10:20
  Brian Searl: Uh, but tell us about your experience at the Glamping Show, please.
• 10:23
  Miguel Huerta: Yeah, sure.
• 10:24
  Miguel Huerta: Well, hello everybody.
• 10:25
  Miguel Huerta: Um, hello again, Scott.
• 10:27
  Miguel Huerta: It's been a while since we, we saw each other.
• 10:31
  Miguel Huerta: Thank you so much for introducing me to the VIP parking lot.
• 10:34
  Miguel Huerta: That is a life-changing experience.
• 10:36
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, but my point is, I'm Miguel.
• 10:39
  Miguel Huerta: I'm with the Mexican Glamping Association, and this year's Glamping Show, I think that it was- I think that it shows how the industry is maturing as we speak.
• 10:53
  Miguel Huerta: So for example, I saw less, um, let's call them window shoppers, like people that they were in to have a, a good time, which means that the...
• 11:05
  Miguel Huerta: Even though that we didn't get as many leads, they were more qualified.
• 11:10
  Miguel Huerta: So there's a- a trade-off between those things, you know?
• 11:13
  Miguel Huerta: Um, the, the other thing this year, sadly, I didn't get to see as many Latino or Latino descent.
• 11:20
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, previous years, overall, I think that at least a third of the attendees, they were Latinos.
• 11:28
  Miguel Huerta: And this year I will say that it was less than 5%.
• 11:31
  Miguel Huerta: So that to me it's a little bit, mm, interesting because, uh, it, it's a, a dynamic that has changed with, with the show.
• 11:44
  Miguel Huerta: I don't know if it has to do with some satellite shows around glamping here in Mexico and Colombia, but that's something that remains to be seen.
• 11:53
  Miguel Huerta: Um, but overall, I think that what I like the most about the glamping show this year, I, I saw a shift from the structure manufacturers where they are more willing to do a rapture type of deal rather than
• 12:10
  Miguel Huerta: to do, uh, a sale on, on their structures.
• 12:14
  Miguel Huerta: Um, and they're open for international expansion as well.
• 12:18
  Miguel Huerta: So that to me, uh, it's interesting.
• 12:22
  Miguel Huerta: The other thing that I saw is more people, I mean, compared to other years, I had more conversations with Americans and Canadians that they wanna move or retire in places like Mexico, and they are thinking on buying like
• 12:39
  Miguel Huerta: a small piece of land, create a glamping site in there and operate, uh, the property by themselves.
• 12:47
  Miguel Huerta: There are a lot of things that they don't know.
• 12:49
  Miguel Huerta: I think that that's, uh, a little bit of wishful thinking, although as I told them, I am really grateful as a Latin America- Latin American, that they are, um, considering this as a, as an option.
• 13:05
  Miguel Huerta: But at the same time, it's something that they need to, to do it in a very careful way because...
• 13:11
  Miguel Huerta: And I think that regardless of the location, uh, now that the market is a little bit more mature, um, I'm seeing that you wanna be very pre- precise with, with your investment.
• 13:27
  Miguel Huerta: So I think that, uh, along with Scott, as he was saying, it's people that they have more information.
• 13:32
  Miguel Huerta: It's people that they are not gambling their money, which is good, you know, for overall for the industry
• 13:40
  Brian Searl: Well, thanks, sir.
• 13:41
  Brian Searl: I wanna come back to you a little bit later in the show 'cause I wanna talk to you about a little bit of cross-border marketing that came up in a client's call that's kinda unrelated to glamping, but just
• 13:48
  Brian Searl: curious to get, get, get your thoughts on it later.
• 13:51
  Brian Searl: Um, Phil, let's go to you real quick 'cause we got, I wanna get, we have a lot to knock out, right?
• 13:54
  Brian Searl: But let's talk about the open house that happened last week.
• 13:57
  Brian Searl: That's, you said you had some really interesting data points about it.
• 13:59
  Phil Ingrassia: Sure, yeah.
• 14:00
  Phil Ingrassia: Um, well, for those of you who don't know, the manufacturers every September do a big show in Elkhart, Indiana, uh, and the surrounding area where most of the RVs are manufactured.
• 14:13
  Phil Ingrassia: And this took pla- uh, took the place of a bigger show in Louisville that was there for many years.
• 14:19
  Phil Ingrassia: And now, um, dealers come into the Elkhart area and go to the factories where they have displays of all the units.
• 14:28
  Phil Ingrassia: And so they, they can look at a lot more different units right in Elkhart.
• 14:33
  Phil Ingrassia: And I think one of the things that, um, you know, we've certainly noticed as, you know, outdoor hospitality is Trying to find new folks and bring more people into the outdoors, you know, glamping's a perfect example of that.
• 14:50
  Phil Ingrassia: I think the RV manufacturers are, um, doing a much better job of reaching out to some of the, um, the outdoor people who may not necessarily consider themselves traditional RVers.
• 15:06
  Phil Ingrassia: Family campers, snowbirds, that's always gonna be the core of the RV market, but there's a lot of ancillary markets out there that I think we're exploring.
• 15:15
  Phil Ingrassia: And many of the manufacturers had, um, lower priced, smaller units that were available to dealers to buy that they didn't have before.
• 15:27
  Phil Ingrassia: And now they're much more rugged units.
• 15:30
  Phil Ingrassia: They're, um, suitable for campgrounds and public campgrounds, but they're also suitable for, uh, more rustic environments, um, and some of the, um, dispersed camping we might see.
• 15:44
  Phil Ingrassia: Now, I know the, the campgrounds might feel, well, you know, what's that mean for us?
• 15:49
  Phil Ingrassia: I think what it means is that, that we're gonna have a wider customer base because those people are going to do both.
• 15:56
  Phil Ingrassia: I don't think it's a either/or for a lot of these folks, and Scott, you may have some data on this.
• 16:01
  Phil Ingrassia: But they not only wanna do the rustic camping, but they also wanna have the regular campground experience, whether they're en route or maybe that's in their, their final destination too, but they're combining those kind of trips and these
• 16:17
  Phil Ingrassia: newer, um, smaller, lighter weight, but more rugged units allow them to do both.
• 16:24
  Phil Ingrassia: And I think that's, that bodes well for the future of the industry because those buyers typically are gonna be much younger than the typical, you know, uh-
• 16:34
  Scott Bahr: Mm-hmm
• 16:35
  Phil Ingrassia: 45-year-old, 55-year-old buyer.
• 16:37
  Phil Ingrassia: So I think that was a really good, um, sign for the industry who we're kind of in the doldrums right now, but at least the manufacturers are thinking about new markets and bringing in new people to the RV
• 16:49
  Phil Ingrassia: business and by extension camping.
• 16:53
  Brian Searl: I think that's interesting 'cause, like, I don't remember, Scott and you and I have had conversations about this, right?
• 16:57
  Brian Searl: But the differences in demographics and what they expect and their expectations and their ability and willingness to spend on not just RVs, but all kinds of things we've talked about, right?
• 17:05
  Scott Bahr: Mm-hmm.
• 17:06
  Brian Searl: Like, I think there's probably a- Like you said, Phil, I agree with you.
• 17:10
  Brian Searl: I think these people are doing multiple trips in multiple different places.
• 17:13
  Brian Searl: I think perhaps I'm gonna macro the industry out on private campgrounds and say like, some of the private campground owners have a problem with it because it's a new problem that they didn't have in the last, you know,
• 17:23
  Brian Searl: six, seven years, right?
• 17:25
  Brian Searl: Harvest Hosts came up, Hipcamp came up, uh, these other places came up.
• 17:29
  Brian Searl: Previously, you were just kind of competing with state parks or BLM land or, or stuff like that.
• 17:34
  Brian Searl: Uh, and now as there's been a shift toward more of a smaller, you know, camper van stuff like that Phil was talking about, uh, but also these platforms, I mean, the Harvest Host one just got acquired by Choice
• 17:46
  Brian Searl: Hotels, which would be really interesting to see what they do for them for $130 million.
• 17:49
  Brian Searl: So obviously there's some belief there in the future of that vertical.
• 17:53
  Brian Searl: But I don't think campground owners need to be scared about this.
• 17:56
  Brian Searl: I think they just need to be cognizant of like, this is a different experience, and how do I make sure that I'm appealing to this different generation that I maybe haven't had to appeal to before?
• 18:05
  Brian Searl: Can we take a brief respite there, Scott?
• 18:07
  Brian Searl: Like, I, I wanna get to everybody else, but like, do you have data on that?
• 18:11
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 18:11
  Scott Bahr: The, the, um The, the typical camper, and they are, uh, really heavily loaded in that, um, under 45, 50-year-old band, do very much, they either are or they seek to have those, those types of different experiences.
• 18:29
  Scott Bahr: Or, and it could be, uh, going to a, like a music festival or something too.
• 18:34
  Scott Bahr: You know, that, uh, is kind of an under- underestimated part of the market.
• 18:38
  Scott Bahr: Uh, and that's, especially the younger generation, they re- that, that's what they do.
• 18:43
  Scott Bahr: That's what they're doing with RVs a lot is, is that kind of stuff.
• 18:46
  Scott Bahr: So yeah, the, the, um...
• 18:48
  Scott Bahr: And then there's a smaller band at the top who will not stay anywhere but a campground that has full hookups, but that's shrinking.
• 18:56
  Scott Bahr: Over time, that keeps shrinking more and more.
• 18:58
  Scott Bahr: And so yeah, the, the multi-use, uh, we're, we're absolutely seeing it, it migrate that way.
• 19:04
  Scott Bahr: We're seeing, um, you know, people, if they wanna take a trip that, you know, they may, they're still gonna stay at the private campgrounds.
• 19:12
  Scott Bahr: They, you know, they still wanna do that, but in between, on the way there, they might wanna stop and stay at a, at a farm or a, a winery or a brewery.
• 19:21
  Scott Bahr: Um, you know, it's, uh, it adds something to their trip, and I think, you know, for the industry overall, that's what we want.
• 19:28
  Scott Bahr: I mean, from your perspective, Phil, absolutely, 'cause, uh, you can sell more RVs because people, you know, want to have these multiple uses.
• 19:36
  Scott Bahr: Um, as a private campground owner, you may see it as somewhat of a threat, but I don't think so.
• 19:40
  Scott Bahr: It's kind of, it's that idea of get more people out there doing this, and the more they're out there, the more likely they are to stop in.
• 19:46
  Scott Bahr: So, and then, you know, that's where the marketing part comes in, too.
• 19:49
  Scott Bahr: Um, so yeah, it, it is something, and I'm glad the RV industry is responding to that.
• 19:55
  Scott Bahr: Um, you know, overlanding is, is, is a, a growing segment.
• 19:58
  Scott Bahr: Um, and those overlanders like to d- the...
• 20:01
  Scott Bahr: What we know they like to do is they like to have really good gear when they go out.
• 20:05
  Scott Bahr: Um, and then they like to stay someplace nice when they come back.
• 20:09
  Scott Bahr: Uh, so it's, um, it, it, it's a, it's a great segment.
• 20:13
  Scott Bahr: It's, and again, a growing segment.
• 20:15
  Scott Bahr: Absolutely
• 20:17
  Brian Searl: Cathy, you have any thoughts on this as the only-
• 20:18
  Cathy Reinard: I do, I do
• 20:19
  Brian Searl: person brave enough to own a campground on here, yeah, do you?
• 20:21
  Cathy Reinard: Um, I would agree with a lot of what Scott's saying.
• 20:25
  Cathy Reinard: Um, the younger camper is an experiential camper.
• 20:30
  Cathy Reinard: So you as a private park owner, um, can either offer more experiences, like we actually had hot air balloons at our park this year.
• 20:41
  Cathy Reinard: Um, so you can offer unique experiences and give them a reason to come and stay with you, or you can not pivot, not change, and watch your market shrink.
• 20:51
  Cathy Reinard: Um, so we've always loved to do unique things because Chrissy and I just love event planning.
• 20:58
  Cathy Reinard: Um, I don't know, maybe in another life we were event planners, I don't know.
• 21:03
  Cathy Reinard: Um, so we enjoy bringing something new to the table each year, and, um, I'm trying to get, um, Greg Emmert to come with his other hat because he's an amazing birder, and I wanna do a whole weekend around
• 21:16
  Cathy Reinard: bird watching, because we downloaded this app and discovered we have like 223 different varieties of birds that are usually around our park.
• 21:26
  Cathy Reinard: I didn't even know there were 223 different varieties of birds- in New York State.
• 21:30
  Brian Searl: So- Neither did I until I met Greg.
• 21:32
  Cathy Reinard: Exactly.
• 21:33
  Cathy Reinard: So the thing is, I think that's what we have to understand is, and maybe, you know, the fact that I, I've been in this space so long, I remember when adding cable TV was a really big thing- Mm-hmm
• 21:45
  Cathy Reinard: in the '90s.
• 21:46
  Cathy Reinard: So, you know, the market keeps changing.
• 21:48
  Cathy Reinard: People are still camping, but they're camping differently.
• 21:52
  Cathy Reinard: And so part of it is deciding what kind of guest you want and going after your guest, and if they want more experiences, then you need to figure out ways to give them more unique experiences, because I think
• 22:05
  Cathy Reinard: that is the future camper, I really do, and that's why they're stopping at those other unique places and camping on farms and doing other things besides a traditional campground.
• 22:17
  Brian Searl: So let me ask you this, Cathy.
• 22:18
  Brian Searl: I'll put you on the spot, and you can just say you don't wanna answer if you don't wanna answer, but it's not a hard question.
• 22:22
  Brian Searl: It's just a creative question, right?
• 22:24
  Brian Searl: Uh, like if, let's say this trend continues, let's say for the next 20 years we continue to have the boomers age out, which we're pretty sure it'll happen, right?
• 22:31
  Brian Searl: Unless we figure out how to live forever, which we might with AI, you never know.
• 22:34
  Brian Searl: Uh, but let's assume the, the boomers continue to age out.
• 22:37
  Brian Searl: Let's assume this tr- let's assume this trend continues with Phil, where they continue to buy smaller camper vans, where they're willing to travel, where they're doing more Harvest Hosts and Hipcamp, but also balancing that with private campgrounds.
• 22:48
  Brian Searl: How does a private campground look in 15, 20 years if they're really successful?
• 22:53
  Brian Searl: Like, what, what radically changes, or is it just small changes?
• 22:56
  Cathy Reinard: Well, I think that one of the things will be adding more unique lodging options.
• 23:02
  Cathy Reinard: That kinda goes back to the glamping piece.
• 23:04
  Cathy Reinard: We have four geo domes, and I can say they are a very different guest than our regular camper guest.
• 23:12
  Cathy Reinard: It's not the same guest that chooses to stay in our cabins.
• 23:16
  Cathy Reinard: Um, and you just have to kind of do research on your local market and ask questions.
• 23:23
  Cathy Reinard: You know, I love the fact that I'm, we'll say, semi-absentee now, so when I'm at the campground, I get to be the welcome wagon.
• 23:30
  Cathy Reinard: I get to talk to campers, ask them what they love about our park.
• 23:34
  Cathy Reinard: "What if I, if I, if I had unlimited money, what would you like me to add?"
• 23:39
  Cathy Reinard: is a question I oftentimes ask, and it's amazing the responses you will get if you actually ask people questions on one on one, or, "Why do you choose our park?
• 23:48
  Cathy Reinard: What do you like about, you know, what do you like best about us?
• 23:51
  Cathy Reinard: What do you like least?"
• 23:52
  Cathy Reinard: Um, we are gonna all adapt and change, and I think that the change will be different depending on where your market is.
• 24:00
  Cathy Reinard: I say the same thing when I'm selling a campground.
• 24:03
  Cathy Reinard: Just because the current owner is doing X, Y, and Z doesn't mean you have to.
• 24:09
  Cathy Reinard: Um, if you like fishing and this park happens to be close to a major lake, you could add trolling motor stations and be all about competi- competition fishermen, even if the nev- previous owner never, ever, ever tried to
• 24:24
  Cathy Reinard: grab that market.
• 24:25
  Cathy Reinard: So I think that private owners have to figure out what markets are available to me and which markets do I wanna serve, and we have to stop trying to be all things to all people, 'cause we're not gonna
• 24:39
  Cathy Reinard: do that well.
• 24:40
  Cathy Reinard: And we all try it to some degree, but I think most of us that are successful in this space know what our core customer is, and that's really the messaging we're getting, and we just happen to get some
• 24:52
  Cathy Reinard: of the other ones as well.
• 24:55
  Brian Searl: Michael, what do you think?
• 24:56
  Brian Searl: You have a lot of experience with marketing parks and, and working for Taco too.
• 25:00
  Cathy Reinard: And he makes awesome site maps.
• 25:01
  Cathy Reinard: I just got mine.
• 25:03
  Michael Moore: There you go.
• 25:04
  Michael Moore: Uh, no, I mean, I, I think I, I'm, I'm thrilled that Cathy said what she said, and I say that because, look, a- and people like Scott and you, Brian, have a lot of data, which is very helpful,
• 25:15
  Michael Moore: but I think parks also, I think it's very good that Cathy asks her guests, "W- why are you here?"
• 25:21
  Michael Moore: You know, they're hearing it sort of directly from the source on, "Why did you choose our park?"
• 25:26
  Michael Moore: And I think as the industry really in general becomes more segmented, so you're glamping, and look, we talked about it, I know last time I was on, on the show about the more extended stay parks and those kinds
• 25:38
  Michael Moore: of options.
• 25:39
  Michael Moore: Parks are gonna have to make a choice, like which direction do you wanna go?
• 25:43
  Michael Moore: And like Cathy said, there's very few parks I can think of off the top of my head that could be all things to all people.
• 25:50
  Michael Moore: I mean, it's just very hard.
• 25:51
  Michael Moore: It's very expensive.
• 25:52
  Michael Moore: It's very it's not the easiest thing to do, even though I think a lot of campground owners and business owners in general think they're like the exception.
• 26:00
  Michael Moore: I, I got news for them.
• 26:01
  Michael Moore: They are not.
• 26:02
  Michael Moore: And so I think you really just have to figure out what, what is your, what are you able to offer?
• 26:08
  Michael Moore: What are you able to specialize in?
• 26:10
  Michael Moore: And just really lean into that.
• 26:11
  Michael Moore: And again, like you said, I am a marketer, so I'm more about, "Hey, what do you have now and what can, what can we, how can we make you stick out for that?"
• 26:20
  Michael Moore: And, and look, for a lot of the campgrounds, you know, what I kind of personally call kind of the middle class, it's not the bare bones extended stay parks, it's not the high-end kind of parks that I know
• 26:30
  Michael Moore: like, you know, another guest, Blue Water, has a lot of.
• 26:33
  Michael Moore: It's that middle of the road, "Hey, we've got concrete sites and it's secure and we have a pool," and like, that's it.
• 26:40
  Michael Moore: Great.
• 26:41
  Michael Moore: Then maybe you lean into some other aspect of that.
• 26:43
  Michael Moore: Maybe you're a cost-efficient option or something like that.
• 26:47
  Michael Moore: But sort of identify what you can do and what you're able to do and then just, just hit it.
• 26:52
  Michael Moore: That, that's kind of my thing.
• 26:53
  Michael Moore: 'Cause there's just so many different ways people can camp now, as we all know, you know?
• 26:57
  Michael Moore: And between glamping, which is one of the few, you know, segments that are still growing, at least whenever I check out the RVIA shipment report, those, those are the units that are still increasing year over year, or the
• 27:09
  Michael Moore: extended stay parks that seem to be more of those leaning into that kind of option.
• 27:14
  Michael Moore: There's just gonna be a lot of different, uh, choices, I guess, for the, for the RVer to choose from.
• 27:19
  Michael Moore: So don't try to have a little bit of everything.
• 27:22
  Michael Moore: Try to have a lot of one or two things, I guess, for lack of a better term.
• 27:27
  Brian Searl: All right, so let me give you the same question I gave Cathy, but a little bit reframed then.
• 27:30
  Michael Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 27:30
  Brian Searl: And say like, let's say you had enough money to do whatever you wanted and to build a campground in 15, 20 years.
• 27:36
  Michael Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 27:36
  Brian Searl: How would you build it?
• 27:39
  Michael Moore: Oof.
• 27:40
  Michael Moore: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a cop-out for sure.
• 27:43
  Michael Moore: Uh, so but what I, uh, what I would truly say to that is I think it is, you know, it's so dependent on so many different factors now, whereas, you know, 20, 30 years ago there was, I don't
• 27:55
  Michael Moore: wanna say a single template for a campground or an RV park, but there were the basics and everyone kind of followed the same thing, where now I think it's so, it's so niche and, and you can, you can
• 28:07
  Michael Moore: be 10 different types of things that you really have to identify, you know, either what your market can support or what you're really passionate about, too.
• 28:15
  Michael Moore: I mean, that's the thing, a lot of the-
• 28:16
  Brian Searl: Well, I'm with you.
• 28:16
  Brian Searl: I'm asking what you would build, Michael.
• 28:18
  Brian Searl: Like, if you, if it was your passion, like what would you think would be successful?
• 28:21
  Michael Moore: Oh, fair enough.
• 28:22
  Michael Moore: Okay.
• 28:22
  Michael Moore: Um-
• 28:23
  Cathy Reinard: All right, let's try asking the question a different way, Brian, and maybe he'll actually answer.
• 28:27
  Michael Moore: No, no, no.
• 28:28
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 28:28
  Michael Moore: That, Br- how Brian asked it this last time was good.
• 28:30
  Michael Moore: So what I would personally do- um, is, a- and again, this is truly just my opinion, but I'm sort of, I don't wanna say old school, but give me the, like, concrete pads, the sort of maybe, um, maybe
• 28:44
  Michael Moore: a grill at each site or maybe a, a bench that you set, but something to where, uh, in addition to the amenities, it's, you've got the, the customer service that really is on steroids, if you will.
• 28:55
  Michael Moore: So you've got a concierge service, you've got someone escorting everyone to the site.
• 28:59
  Michael Moore: You've got, you know, I, I would say just, uh, lean heavily on sort of the more human interaction.
• 29:05
  Michael Moore: Still have the nice amenities, still have modern amenities, okay?
• 29:08
  Michael Moore: So concrete, that's kind of essential, pool, et cetera.
• 29:12
  Michael Moore: But for me, I think that's gonna be something that sticks out in the, in the short term, is the sort of emphasis on the sort of human-to-human kind of interaction on that.
• 29:22
  Michael Moore: Does that make sense?
• 29:23
  Brian Searl: Yeah.
• 29:24
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 29:25
  Brian Searl: I'm gonna put myself on the record and I'm gonna say like niche down, I 100% agree with you.
• 29:28
  Brian Searl: We're gonna have to niche down.
• 29:29
  Brian Searl: You gotta do your own feasibility study.
• 29:31
  Brian Searl: You gotta figure out, like Cathy said, who is your market?
• 29:33
  Brian Searl: Who's in the area?
• 29:34
  Brian Searl: What's your demographic?
• 29:35
  Brian Searl: Who can you attract?
• 29:36
  Brian Searl: And then who can you attract by changing, modifying, adjusting who you're going after, what amenities you have?
• 29:42
  Brian Searl: So niching down is incredibly important.
• 29:44
  Brian Searl: But I think from a macro level, if you forced me to put something in my, in my mouth, I would say neighborhoods.
• 29:50
  Brian Searl: Mm.
• 29:50
  Brian Searl: Like, I think you're gonna have to create, like, like we had a great guy on the show last week, it was like our fifth week episode without any recurring guests, who just his aerial shot of his campground was
• 29:59
  Brian Searl: kind of like, like g- it sticks out in my mind, like Gaylord KOA is something similar.
• 30:03
  Brian Searl: Like the older campground that doesn't have the sites all immediately right next to each other at a specific angle that has trees and landscaping and quiet and breaks between everybody and it just, it feels like more camping than
• 30:16
  Brian Searl: RVing.
• 30:17
  Brian Searl: And I think you, if you, if you take that and apply that down to a niche, I think those are gonna be the really successful people-
• 30:22
  Miguel Huerta: Mm
• 30:22
  Brian Searl: in 15, 20 years.
• 30:24
  Brian Searl: We'll find out.
• 30:24
  Brian Searl: I'm just thinking myself.
• 30:26
  Brian Searl: Simon, what do you think?
• 30:27
  Brian Searl: Has this, has this kind of discussion happened in Europe already?
• 30:30
  Brian Searl: Are we behind?
• 30:30
  Brian Searl: Are we ahead?
• 30:31
  Brian Searl: Is it going there?
• 30:34
  Simon Neal: No, I mean, it's, uh, Europe is incredibly family-focused.
• 30:37
  Simon Neal: Um, you know, the, the seasonal holiday market, that's the main push, and they have worked towards this more, you know, camping feel, outdoors feel, you know, dividers between, uh, sites, but the community at the same time and the
• 30:54
  Simon Neal: amenities.
• 30:55
  Simon Neal: So I think it's definitely more, you know, you go there, you feel at home, you feel in nature, but then your kids can go nuts and do all the amenities and feel safe.
• 31:04
  Simon Neal: So that's kind of a big thing that has really pushed on most of the European scene.
• 31:10
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, I think like, uh, like we were, we picked up a, picked up a new park we're doing marketing for.
• 31:17
  Brian Searl: I'm not gonna say the name of it, but one of the more interesting things that I saw that, that they were doing was, like, building the private fences and the private gates around some of their sites for some
• 31:26
  Brian Searl: of the long-term stays, and just kind of, like, even that alone, I think, if you market to that or slap that on a Google ad or somewhere like that is, is just different enough.
• 31:36
  Brian Searl: Like, it feels like it's not a radical change, but it's different enough that you'll set yourself apart from 60% of the rest of the market.
• 31:44
  Brian Searl: And so I think that's what, that's what my argument is with the neighborhoods, whether it's a private neighborhood for you and your family or a pri- like, not saying neighborhood like a condominium, right?
• 31:53
  Brian Searl: Or it's grouped by glamping, or grouped by type of RV, or grouped by niche, or grouped by theme or whatever you, whatever your thing is.
• 31:59
  Brian Searl: I think that's where it's gonna be successful.
• 32:01
  Brian Searl: But it sounds like maybe then what you're saying, Simon, is that Europe is a little bit more ahead of us in the neighborhood concept, because it sounds like maybe if, if we're going there, and if I'm right, but
• 32:11
  Brian Searl: it sounds like that might be a, a thing that they've already moved to while still preserving community.
• 32:17
  Simon Neal: I mean, it's market-driven.
• 32:18
  Simon Neal: Like I said, it, the majority of all the big parks are, are family parks, and it's designed for that family experience.
• 32:26
  Simon Neal: And I think it's definitely different than probably a majority US market share.
• 32:31
  Simon Neal: Um, so there is that natural just difference in the geography and, and how the customer, you know, goes camping in Europe versus the US at the moment.
• 32:40
  Simon Neal: But it's definitely-
• 32:42
  Brian Searl: If you-
• 32:42
  Simon Neal: a nice, uh, recipe and it works well.
• 32:45
  Brian Searl: Is a, is a part of that though because, like, the smaller camper vans have already, like, I know that's not the entire thing, but they've already been there in Europe for a long time, whereas they're just starting to
• 32:54
  Brian Searl: kind of really come mainstream.
• 32:56
  Brian Searl: Is that fair Phil in the last few years?
• 32:59
  Phil Ingrassia: Yeah.
• 33:00
  Phil Ingrassia: There's a couple of manufacturers who have really leaned into the Euro design and, um, the van camper market has been the, you know, the highlight growth market on the motor home side for going on five years now.
• 33:16
  Phil Ingrassia: Um, so I do think that that is a completely different type of buyer than we have seen.
• 33:25
  Phil Ingrassia: Um, some of them are, um, you know, people that are still doing, you know, remote work.
• 33:31
  Phil Ingrassia: Uh, you know, we, we hear about people coming back to the office, but there's still a lot of people out there who have the flexibility to, um, you know, work out of an RV wherever they want to in,
• 33:42
  Phil Ingrassia: you know, in North America.
• 33:43
  Phil Ingrassia: So, um, yeah, I do think that, that, that, the Euro style RV is, is going to continue to grow in the US.
• 33:54
  Phil Ingrassia: We're already seeing it with what the manufa-
• 33:59
  Brian Searl: Good.
• 33:59
  Brian Searl: Did we lose him?
• 34:02
  Scott Bahr: Nope, he froze
• 34:03
  Brian Searl: All right, Phil froze.
• 34:04
  Brian Searl: So, yeah, I think w- Phil will come back in a second.
• 34:07
  Brian Searl: Are you back, Phil?
• 34:09
  Phil Ingrassia: I'm back.
• 34:09
  Phil Ingrassia: Sorry.
• 34:10
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 34:10
  Brian Searl: There you go.
• 34:11
  Brian Searl: Continue your thought.
• 34:11
  Brian Searl: That's it.
• 34:11
  Brian Searl: I
• 34:11
  Phil Ingrassia: don't know where you lost me, but yeah, there, the, the Euro, the Euro, uh, trend in RV design is continuing.
• 34:18
  Brian Searl: Yeah, I mean, I think that's Like, the way I look at it, and I, I hate to, to I'm not a stereotypical guy, right?
• 34:25
  Brian Searl: But if I step back and wanted to lump the buckets, then if you look at, like, I, I imagine that, and, and Scott, you probably have data on this, right?
• 34:32
  Brian Searl: But I imagine that the people who buy the smaller camper vans, on a 20,000-foot macro stereotypical view, tend to skew more toward, I don't know if you wanna call it traditional families, but younger families with kids, versus the
• 34:47
  Brian Searl: Class As are typically the people we've seen camping, the boomers, for, like, 50, 60 years, who bring their families out, but don't camp with their families constantly.
• 34:57
  Brian Searl: Is that backed up by any data, Scott?
• 34:59
  Brian Searl: Or am I just making that up?
• 35:00
  Scott Bahr: Sure.
• 35:01
  Scott Bahr: Yeah, yeah, absolu- absolutely, it, it does.
• 35:03
  Scott Bahr: The, um, you know, the, the families, you know, with, especially young children and so on, the, the floor plan, you know, is a, is a, is a big driver.
• 35:13
  Scott Bahr: They like to, you know, what, what do you have inside?
• 35:16
  Scott Bahr: How does everybody stay out of each other's way?
• 35:18
  Scott Bahr: Um, versus the, kind of the more adventurous types.
• 35:22
  Scott Bahr: We do, one of the things we do see overall is still the, um, aspirational RV is, is a motor home.
• 35:31
  Scott Bahr: It, um, almost regardless of, of where they sit currently, you know, whether they can afford it or not, or whether their, their lifestyle, you know, supports it or whatever-
• 35:40
  Brian Searl: Well, I mean, my aspirational house has a basketball court, and a movie theater, and a couple swimming pools too, right?
• 35:45
  Brian Searl: But I-
• 35:46
  Scott Bahr: Right
• 35:46
  Brian Searl: I'm not getting that thing, so.
• 35:48
  Scott Bahr: Well, you know, again, it, it, you know, depends on where you're heading, what direction.
• 35:52
  Scott Bahr: So, um, but yeah, the, people want motor homes.
• 35:58
  Scott Bahr: It's, when people, and Phil pr- knows this already too, if you ask someone to picture, you know, close their eyes and picture an RV in their, their minds, it's gonna be a motor home.
• 36:07
  Scott Bahr: Yeah.
• 36:07
  Scott Bahr: It's just, it is.
• 36:08
  Scott Bahr: It's the i- iconic, um, you know, and for many it is al- you know, an Airstream is also, you know, one of those, um, a- aspirational types of, of units too.
• 36:19
  Scott Bahr: But i- in general, you know, we see, and it, it's funny 'cause I know the, the folks at RVIA always talk about this when we do the research.
• 36:26
  Scott Bahr: It's like, why is it motor homes are, always trend up so high?
• 36:29
  Scott Bahr: It's, it, it's be- because we know it's a smaller portion of the market, but if you ask people what they would like to buy, they're, it's, it's always at the top.
• 36:38
  Brian Searl: I mean, the reason I bring this up and just to kind of close the loop and, and bring everything back together, at least in my mind, which sometimes is broken and very complex and doesn't make sense to anybody
• 36:47
  Brian Searl: else, uh, is, is that, you know, I, I think that when I say Europe is ahead, I mean that Europe has, because they've had more camper vans like this and smaller units, they've tended to attract more of the
• 36:58
  Brian Searl: younger demographic than perhaps we have to our private campgrounds in the United States, although that trend is starting to shift.
• 37:06
  Brian Searl: And so then maybe the campgrounds have already started to react to that demand, whereas our campgrounds haven't quite gotten there yet.
• 37:13
  Brian Searl: Is that fair, Simon, or am I still off base?
• 37:16
  Simon Neal: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's been around a long time and I think, uh, you know, even if the trend grows with these smaller campers, people still want a bit of comfort and a bit of luxury every now and
• 37:27
  Simon Neal: again, and you're gonna get that in a campground.
• 37:29
  Simon Neal: You're not gonna get it in a field.
• 37:31
  Simon Neal: So I think, like Cathy also said, that, you know, as long as that sector grows, it's gonna be a positive, like, overflow into the campgrounds.
• 37:41
  Simon Neal: It will come back.
• 37:42
  Simon Neal: So, uh, definitely from the European market, people with small campers, they will travel a long way.
• 37:48
  Simon Neal: They will do one or two nights on the side of a road or a field, and then they will go in the private campground, and they'll really enjoy their time there.
• 37:55
  Simon Neal: So I think there's a mix, but you will, you will get a net positive.
• 37:59
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 38:00
  Brian Searl: I wanna come back to you for the Nordic study in a second, but Miguel, I know you're mostly glamping, but do you have any insights into this in the Mexican market?
• 38:08
  Brian Searl: Are there people that are starting to buy camper vans or RVs of any kind?
• 38:12
  Miguel Huerta: Yeah.
• 38:13
  Miguel Huerta: Well, I think that, and I love the word that, the, the, that you used.
• 38:17
  Miguel Huerta: Um, that type of- and structure, um, it's an aspirational one here in Latin America.
• 38:26
  Miguel Huerta: And it, it is pretty funny because, um, I saw Raf, you know Rafael, that has been a guest in, in some other shows, and what I told him is, "I think that RV parks are missing that type of
• 38:40
  Miguel Huerta: market that aspire to do like the Route 66 or like to rent a, a motor house and, and drive across America.
• 38:49
  Miguel Huerta: And if you do that as part of your marketing strategies, I think that you might find a niche that might be interesting."
• 38:59
  Miguel Huerta: Now, for the local market, like, to have a, a motor home or a RV here in La- in Mexico, it's very difficult because so far there's no liability insurance for third parties.
• 39:13
  Miguel Huerta: So th- that missing part is the one that, that prevents, um, that market to, to actually happen.
• 39:21
  Miguel Huerta: But it's really aspirational.
• 39:24
  Miguel Huerta: I'm seeing couple of people that they are building those, like, tear- teardrop, like, kind of, um, um, RVs that you can drag with, with any, um, with, with any vehicle, and I'm foreseeing that that be- that will be
• 39:40
  Miguel Huerta: huge in LatAm as a whole.
• 39:43
  Miguel Huerta: At the end, let's not forget that pretty much regardless of your location, and but that, this is a hot take on my side, um A lot of the, I mean, most of your visitors will be with, uh, like
• 40:00
  Miguel Huerta: people that live within a three hours driving range.
• 40:04
  Miguel Huerta: So for you to, to be able to cater that experience to them, plus, um, having like all of these amenities that you were discussing previously, that will be huge.
• 40:15
  Miguel Huerta: So maybe like having...
• 40:17
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, remember there was a, a service that I u- that I used while I was in college in the States.
• 40:22
  Miguel Huerta: I think that it's called, it was called FlexCar, where you will, like, use a NFC card, and that will allow you to rent the car for a couple o- of hours or not.
• 40:32
  Miguel Huerta: Like having that-
• 40:32
  Brian Searl: Yeah, Zipcar, stuff like that.
• 40:34
  Brian Searl: Yes, I think I'm-
• 40:35
  Miguel Huerta: Yes, exactly.
• 40:37
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, my point is that maybe doing that where, uh, or like this, uh, pool of investors that, like a timeshare type of, uh, agreement, right?
• 40:48
  Miguel Huerta: Where like there's a pool of investors that buy a nice unit, that they use it, uh, for any amount of weeks or days, uh, during the year, but the other remaining days is generating, uh, like some return on
• 41:01
  Miguel Huerta: that investment.
• 41:02
  Miguel Huerta: That might be an interesting, um, business case as well.
• 41:06
  Miguel Huerta: But in Latin America, I mean, you will do that, like illegally, but at the end, that's happening across the Baja Peninsula from Tijuana all the way to La Paz, which is south.
• 41:19
  Miguel Huerta: And a lot of people, basically, they, they bring, uh, to Mexico their, their RV, um, and then they leave it in the south of Baja.
• 41:28
  Miguel Huerta: So it, that's like a RV graveyard or the- if you wanna get like, uh, some interesting deals, uh, that would be the place to go there, because at the end, they don't wanna drive back with the RV to
• 41:39
  Miguel Huerta: the States, right?
• 41:40
  Miguel Huerta: They, they wanna fly back to States.
• 41:42
  Miguel Huerta: So yeah, um, b- but trust me, I'm working on that, um, because that would be interesting in LatAm as a whole.
• 41:51
  Brian Searl: All right, so sort of related to that, and then we'll go to Simon about the Nordic study, and then we'll finish up with everybody asking some questions of each other.
• 41:57
  Brian Searl: Um, I had a client who I was talking to.
• 42:00
  Brian Searl: Uh, no, actually they weren't a client.
• 42:01
  Brian Searl: Somebody was asking me about a campground or an RV park in Yuma, Arizona, which is surrounded on both sides by, I think Mexicali.
• 42:07
  Brian Searl: Am I pronouncing that right?
• 42:09
  Miguel Huerta: Mm-hmm.
• 42:09
  Brian Searl: Uh, and then Tijuana further to the west, uh, a couple hours I think.
• 42:13
  Brian Searl: But we, we were, we were talking about whether there was potentially a market for people to cross the border from Mexico and either do short-term stays at a property like this, day passes, uh, you know, place to stay
• 42:27
  Brian Searl: so they don't have to wait at the border crossings for two and a half hours.
• 42:29
  Brian Searl: Do you feel like there's a market for that for, for properties that hug the border anywhere, Miguel, or are we kinda off base there?
• 42:36
  Miguel Huerta: And can you repeat the last part again, please?
• 42:39
  Brian Searl: Just, uh, whether, well, which last part?
• 42:41
  Brian Searl: But what, what, um, is there a market for people who live in Mexico who cross the border and go camping either short-term or medium-term with properties that are in, like, Yuma, Arizona, right across the border?
• 42:56
  Miguel Huerta: Oh, yeah.
• 42:56
  Brian Searl: Whether, uh, it's because they're going to work or, like, that kind of thing.
• 43:00
  Miguel Huerta: Le- let's not forget that, that, um, in, like, if you are going abroad, regardless of your location, that's something aspirational and luxurious tourism, even if you are staying in a, a beat-up hotel room, right?
• 43:14
  Miguel Huerta: My point is that, uh, I think that it's critical for those locations that are on the border, and that can apply for also, like, Canada and the States border.
• 43:23
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, if you, if you promote that with these local influencers from the other side of the border, I think that, uh, that, that might be a niche, uh, worth taking a look at.
• 43:34
  Miguel Huerta: Um- And the final thing will be, um, for Mexicans, uh, it's, it's kind of funny, but like, um, the, the, the, the, the households with the higher income in Mexico, they stopped doing tourism in Mexico for the last
• 43:53
  Miguel Huerta: two or three years because, uh, with the dollar, um, weakness, it was actually cheaper and more luxurious to go overseas.
• 44:05
  Miguel Huerta: That's why- Hmm um, the country that ha- or the nationality that has the largest, um, purchasing, purchasing power in Japan, it's Mexicans.
• 44:17
  Miguel Huerta: So that means that every Mexican that go to, uh, the other side of the world, they will spend more i- i- in Japan than an American or an, a European.
• 44:28
  Miguel Huerta: My point is that, uh, a lot of Mexicans, they are looking for those type of experiences, and it was some, some inter- some interesting conversations happened during the glamping show because at the end you just need a landing
• 44:41
  Miguel Huerta: page, that it's in Spanish or the language that, that you want.
• 44:45
  Miguel Huerta: And
• 44:46
  Brian Searl: WhatsApp.
• 44:46
  Miguel Huerta: Yeah.
• 44:47
  Miguel Huerta: Now with AI, like, hey, like, uh- yeah and have the WhatsApp button as well.
• 44:51
  Miguel Huerta: The WhatsApp is huge.
• 44:53
  Miguel Huerta: My point, and, and have like the content catered for that nationality, and that would be great.
• 44:58
  Miguel Huerta: Li- like for example, I was talking with, with a couple from North Carolina, and I told them that when I was in college in there in, in 2008, um, there were a little bit over 1 million, uh, Mexicans
• 45:10
  Miguel Huerta: living in both Carolinas, right?
• 45:11
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, North and South.
• 45:13
  Miguel Huerta: And if you take a look, uh, in Coachella that you were discussing about, uh, music festivals, a lot of the experience economy in California is driven now by Latino descent people, right?
• 45:27
  Miguel Huerta: Like second or third generation.
• 45:29
  Miguel Huerta: My point is that we're missing that market as, as an industry, and this cross-pollination, um, like, um, exercise that we're doing right now, I'm pretty sure that it's generating a lot of value to, to our listeners and viewers.
• 45:45
  Brian Searl: Cool.
• 45:45
  Brian Searl: Thank you, Sir.
• 45:46
  Brian Searl: I was ho- I was hoping we were just struggling 'cause everybody thinks Yuma is the death of the RV industry, and maybe it is, or the RV park industry, right?
• 45:53
  Brian Searl: Uh, 'cause there's nothing really there.
• 45:54
  Brian Searl: But I think if you reach across the border, that's a whole brand new market.
• 45:56
  Brian Searl: And then we were also talking about bringing back some of the Canadians who can come down, leave their RV in Yuma, and maybe you create kind of a tour guide planning trip excursion into Mexico so they don't have
• 46:06
  Brian Searl: to drive their RV over there.
• 46:07
  Brian Searl: They leave their RV at the park, and then maybe you can bring different Canadians.
• 46:10
  Miguel Huerta: Yeah.
• 46:11
  Miguel Huerta: I think that it will be better, and I will like to have th- this conversation maybe s- somewhere else, because at the end we can go into details.
• 46:18
  Miguel Huerta: But as a whole, I will, like, recommend to have, like, some campaigns targeted to these individuals across the border.
• 46:26
  Miguel Huerta: Make things easy for them, maybe like a pickup service.
• 46:29
  Miguel Huerta: So, I, I mean, they take you to the RV park or the, or the RV rental, uh, place.
• 46:36
  Miguel Huerta: Um, and then p- partner up with couple of influencers and local media in the other part of the country, uh, on the other side of the border, sorry, and that will be an interesting market for you to take
• 46:48
  Miguel Huerta: a look at.
• 46:49
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 46:50
  Brian Searl: Thank you, sir.
• 46:50
  Brian Searl: Simon, what you got for the Nordics?
• 46:53
  Simon Neal: Yeah, interesting, uh, statistics.
• 46:55
  Simon Neal: So I read a quick summary on Sweden in particular.
• 47:00
  Simon Neal: So they're a pretty big camping country, but in the European perspective, they're all the way in the north.
• 47:06
  Simon Neal: Uh, temperate, cool climate, you know, freezing in the winter, lots of snow, not so nice in the summer.
• 47:12
  Simon Neal: But they had a great season.
• 47:13
  Simon Neal: They were up 3% from 2025, 12.7 million overnight stays.
• 47:18
  Simon Neal: Um, but what's really interesting is when you dig down into the statistics, the majority of the uplift came from the middle European countries, particularly Germany and Holland.
• 47:29
  Simon Neal: Now, they are famous every year for going south-
• 47:32
  Brian Searl: For the holidays
• 47:33
  Simon Neal: for holidays because, you know, it's cold and crap weather.
• 47:36
  Simon Neal: We drive 10 hours south, we're on the Adriatic or Mediterranean coast.
• 47:40
  Simon Neal: We have sunshine, beers, a nice holiday.
• 47:43
  Simon Neal: Um, but this summer was really, really hot, like really hot across the whole of Europe, several heat waves.
• 47:49
  Simon Neal: So I think what happened is they said, "We're actually too hot.
• 47:52
  Simon Neal: We're fed up."
• 47:53
  Simon Neal: And instead they turned around and drove north to cool down a bit.
• 47:56
  Simon Neal: And basically a result of that, Sweden got this massive boost, uh, in their market And I don't even think that was driven by any particular advertising.
• 48:05
  Simon Neal: So if they kind of clued into that and said, "Wow, it's, it's a heat wave in summer.
• 48:10
  Simon Neal: Come to Sw- Sweden and cool down," it may have even been more, you know, of a bonus for them.
• 48:15
  Simon Neal: So really interesting trend and statistic.
• 48:19
  Simon Neal: And at the same time, uh, the Swedish overnight stays are probably 30% of the cost of the southern typical Italy, Croatia, France.
• 48:29
  Simon Neal: So now they've seen that and they've kind of sampled Sweden for, like, 30% of the cost.
• 48:33
  Simon Neal: I think that's a really good sign for them going forward.
• 48:35
  Simon Neal: So nice lesson learned these days.
• 48:38
  Simon Neal: Weather's changing.
• 48:39
  Simon Neal: You know, if things like this do happen, jump on the marketing, take advantage of it.
• 48:45
  Brian Searl: Cathy, how was your summer?
• 48:47
  Cathy Reinard: It was a good summer.
• 48:49
  Cathy Reinard: We actually were, um, significantly up from the previous year, and I attribute a lot of that to having lived through gas pr- uh, price situations previously since I've been in this space so long.
• 49:05
  Cathy Reinard: And we did a lot of marketing pivot, and we took on more long-term stays, more monthlies, and we offered a lot of, um, camp two weekends in a row, you know, we'll store the rig for you scenarios.
• 49:20
  Cathy Reinard: So we reacted to the fact that we realized people were worrying about their budgets, and we captured more of the market share because we were sensitive to that.
• 49:31
  Cathy Reinard: We did not discount our camp sites.
• 49:34
  Cathy Reinard: We just gave additional offerings like the storage.
• 49:37
  Cathy Reinard: Um, and it worked really well for us.
• 49:41
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 49:42
  Brian Searl: Glad to hear it.
• 49:42
  Brian Searl: Okay, so let's close out the show here.
• 49:44
  Brian Searl: We got, like, 10 minutes left.
• 49:45
  Brian Searl: We're not gonna close out too fast.
• 49:46
  Brian Searl: Uh, but we kind of turn it over.
• 49:48
  Brian Searl: Cathy, you're our guest.
• 49:49
  Brian Searl: You've never seen this before.
• 49:50
  Brian Searl: But we typically, like, turn over the hosting duties, 'cause, you know, I'm not really a good host anyway, uh, and say, like, ask a bunch of questions to your fellow peers.
• 49:56
  Brian Searl: So Cathy, do you have any questions for any of the, the guests here on the show that you'd like to ask?
• 50:02
  Cathy Reinard: I'm gonna start with Simon.
• 50:04
  Cathy Reinard: Um, what is the differences you see in creating a camp map, uh, for a European customer versus a US customer?
• 50:15
  Cathy Reinard: What is the expectation of what their map or guest guide should be like?
• 50:20
  Brian Searl: Can't believe we've never asked you that before, Simon.
• 50:22
  Brian Searl: That's a good question.
• 50:24
  Simon Neal: Yeah.
• 50:25
  Simon Neal: I think, um, there's a particular style in the US.
• 50:29
  Simon Neal: It's quite simplified and in some way matches the, the typical layout of your traditional RV sites, pull in, uh, pull through, back in, things like that.
• 50:40
  Simon Neal: So there's definitely look and feel difference.
• 50:42
  Simon Neal: In Europe it's much more kind of it needs to look more like nature.
• 50:46
  Simon Neal: It's got a bit high-level design.
• 50:49
  Simon Neal: Um, a bit more inspirational I would say.
• 50:53
  Simon Neal: Um, and then a focus on the amenities, really make them pop out the cell, 'cause that's a big thing in the European market.
• 51:01
  Simon Neal: So in terms of actually what's on the map, almost identical.
• 51:06
  Simon Neal: It's mainly just the style and the format difference, I would say
• 51:10
  Cathy Reinard: Okay.
• 51:10
  Cathy Reinard: I was just curious.
• 51:12
  Cathy Reinard: Um, I have not camped in Europe.
• 51:14
  Cathy Reinard: I've been to Europe on many a vacation, but not camping, so I was just curious about that.
• 51:21
  Cathy Reinard: Um, I'm going to switch it over to my friend Michael Moore and ask have you done any, uh, European, um, maps?
• 51:32
  Cathy Reinard: Because I know you do a ton of stuff nationwide or ha- I know you do some in Canada.
• 51:37
  Michael Moore: Mm-hmm.
• 51:38
  Cathy Reinard: Do you see differences, uh, in expectations or style or feel as well?
• 51:43
  Michael Moore: You know, I'm gonna leave the European market to Simon, I think.
• 51:46
  Michael Moore: He is the, he's the- expert there.
• 51:48
  Michael Moore: He's European, so, um, we actually don't, uh, do a lot of, of European stuff, or Eddie, I should say.
• 51:55
  Michael Moore: But, you know, I, I, what I would say to that though is, um, uh, I mean, and everything Simon said is absolutely right as far as the kind of maps that we do for American and even Canadian customers.
• 52:06
  Michael Moore: It's kind of straight to the point.
• 52:09
  Michael Moore: Like, they d- they, a lot of them, I mean, not everyone, but a lot of them just want, "Hey, I need to make sure this, this, and this is on there, and, uh, you know, let me double check
• 52:17
  Michael Moore: it and we're good to go."
• 52:18
  Michael Moore: And so it's...
• 52:19
  Michael Moore: I don't know that as much time and care is put into it.
• 52:22
  Michael Moore: I mean, you spent a lot of time and care on your map, Cathy, believe me, but, uh, you're the exception.
• 52:27
  Cathy Reinard: I know you guys crazy, but-
• 52:29
  Michael Moore: You're, well-
• 52:29
  Cathy Reinard: You can say it.
• 52:30
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 52:30
  Michael Moore: But you're the exception.
• 52:32
  Michael Moore: So, um, but no, I think, I think there is an emphasis, at least for people we work with, on something, uh, simple that they, they don't really have to, uh, explain a lot to the customer.
• 52:43
  Michael Moore: It's more about like, "Hey, here you go.
• 52:45
  Michael Moore: Here's this, that, or the other, and, you know, have a good stay."
• 52:49
  Michael Moore: Does that make sense?
• 52:49
  Brian Searl: Let me ask you this, Michael, let me reframe it in something you may have since you don't do the Europe, Eur- European side.
• 52:54
  Brian Searl: You see a difference between maps with private campgrounds and glamping resorts, if you've done any of those?
• 52:59
  Michael Moore: Hmm.
• 53:00
  Michael Moore: Yeah, we have.
• 53:01
  Michael Moore: Um, I, I would actually say that it's just in our experience that the glamping resorts absolutely, uh, are more, what would be the word?
• 53:11
  Michael Moore: I guess customized.
• 53:13
  Michael Moore: I mean, I would sort of equate them to more what Simon said about the European maps.
• 53:17
  Michael Moore: Like, the glamping resorts definitely, uh, put more of an emphasis on the various points of, of interest in the park or, or amenities or something like that, as opposed to the RV parks and campgrounds, which again, like you
• 53:30
  Michael Moore: said, is very kind of, "Here's the row of sites and here's the front office and here's the pool, and have a nice day."
• 53:37
  Michael Moore: So
• 53:38
  Brian Searl: All right, Michael, you got a question for anybody?
• 53:40
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 53:40
  Michael Moore: I was gonna, uh, actually ask Phil, uh, who I'm, I know, you know, obviously, as head of the dealer association, what, uh, have you seen, uh, be sort of a successful collaboration between, say, you know, RV parks and
• 53:56
  Michael Moore: dealers?
• 53:57
  Michael Moore: Meaning, you know, and it could be something, uh, specific on the ground level.
• 54:01
  Michael Moore: It could be kind of high-level stuff.
• 54:02
  Michael Moore: But, you know, a- as we've I know I've said this several times, we're all in the same boat here as far as the camping industry.
• 54:09
  Michael Moore: So whatever we can do to kind of help each other, I think is a good thing.
• 54:12
  Michael Moore: So.
• 54:13
  Phil Ingrassia: Well, certainly, you know, all camping is local sort of.
• 54:17
  Phil Ingrassia: And, and, um, I think one of the things that I've, I've seen s- work successfully, um, some of the state campground owners groups, um, have worked with local dealer groups to get campground guides in the dealerships.
• 54:33
  Phil Ingrassia: It seems like a no brain- a no-brainer, but there's not a ton of that that necessarily goes on.
• 54:40
  Phil Ingrassia: Um, and I, I really try to encourage that when- whenever I can.
• 54:45
  Phil Ingrassia: Um, the other thing we've seen, especially in some of the s- um, maybe the spring or fall, uh, dealers have partnered with campgrounds to do, um, maybe new product showcases-
• 54:56
  Michael Moore: Hmm
• 54:56
  Phil Ingrassia: um, right at the campground, and I think, um, those can be valuable as well.
• 55:02
  Phil Ingrassia: I think that's an ongoing point of discussion too, and I-- sometimes it's driven by the state, state associations.
• 55:09
  Phil Ingrassia: It just depends on how active that state association group is and, and how they wanna reach out to their local dealer groups
• 55:19
  Cathy Reinard: Michael, can I answer that as well?
• 55:22
  Michael Moore: Yes, please.
• 55:23
  Cathy Reinard: Okay.
• 55:24
  Cathy Reinard: So this past year we partnered with a, um, RV dealership that has three locations, um, all within a reasonable drive time of our campground, and we offered a coupon that they could attach to every sale that they did
• 55:43
  Cathy Reinard: for a free one-night stay, and we didn't even put that they had to stay two nights, just free one night stay.
• 55:50
  Cathy Reinard: And we also offered a discount if somebody was looking to be a long-term stay.
• 55:55
  Cathy Reinard: Um, interestingly, we didn't get a ton of the free one-night stays, um, redeemed.
• 56:01
  Cathy Reinard: A lot of people just forgot, uh, you know, stuff like that.
• 56:04
  Cathy Reinard: They said later when people said that they found out about us at someplace else.
• 56:08
  Cathy Reinard: But, um, we did get three new long-term stays that literally had them deliver the rig to the park.
• 56:16
  Cathy Reinard: They came and- saw the park, liked it, and delivered it.
• 56:18
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 56:18
  Cathy Reinard: So, um, and one of the things that came out of this is we have identified four, um, different dealerships that we, uh, different companies that we would like to do something with on some sort of level this year.
• 56:32
  Cathy Reinard: And if they do a spring or fall open house, um, we're gonna try to have a small table and have information on our park, because I think as this industry gets more Um, truncated in some ways as we
• 56:48
  Cathy Reinard: have more corporations and things like that entering the space.
• 56:53
  Cathy Reinard: I think that part of why I believe people camp in the first place, which is that it is so much more social than going and staying at a hotel, we're losing a little bit of that.
• 57:05
  Cathy Reinard: As we have all of these new conveniences that people can check in automatically and all this, you're losing that human touch.
• 57:11
  Cathy Reinard: So getting out there and kind of putting some face time into doing this, I think will be very beneficial to us because unfortunately a lot of the RV shows that people have gone to for years, they're seeing attendance
• 57:25
  Cathy Reinard: drop.
• 57:26
  Cathy Reinard: I'm hoping it comes back, but we are to the point now where we only do one RV show for the park.
• 57:33
  Cathy Reinard: So we're trying to say, "Okay, let's take that time and where else could we go?"
• 57:36
  Cathy Reinard: Mm.
• 57:36
  Cathy Reinard: So we're trying some partnerships with dealerships, and after the success we had literally because a dealership asked us last year, um, we're gonna see where, where that goes.
• 57:46
  Cathy Reinard: We're gonna expand on that a little more and do more with them, and I will be blessing them with KOA guides and Campground Owners of New York guides if they would like them, since I'm on both boards.
• 57:58
  Phil Ingrassia: That's great.
• 57:58
  Phil Ingrassia: I love to hear that.
• 57:59
  Phil Ingrassia: And, uh, you know, I think, you know, I would love to talk to you and maybe use your experience as something that we could use in as example and get out to the rest of our membership about here's
• 58:10
  Phil Ingrassia: an example of something that, that actually works.
• 58:13
  Phil Ingrassia: And, uh, it, it's a win-win for everybody, and again, we're, we're trying to lift the entire outdoor hospitality as- so, you know, industry.
• 58:22
  Phil Ingrassia: Um-
• 58:22
  Cathy Reinard: Exactly
• 58:23
  Phil Ingrassia: I'm gonna have to drop off, but it was good seeing you, and we'll see you next year.
• 58:27
  Scott Bahr: Thanks, Phil.
• 58:28
  Scott Bahr: Talk soon.
• 58:29
  Brian Searl: All right, uh, Scott, you got any questions for anybody?
• 58:32
  Scott Bahr: Um, I was gonna ask Miguel, 'cause we, we touched on it just briefly at the, the glamping show, but the idea of camping in, in Mexico, it seems like no one really talks about it.
• 58:44
  Scott Bahr: Um, but it, but it also seems to be like there's a group of people that love to go camping in Mexico, but it's just hasn't really opened up.
• 58:54
  Scott Bahr: I mean, what do we gotta do to see, uh, Mexico as a destination for camping?
• 59:00
  Miguel Huerta: Well, um, that's a great question.
• 59:02
  Miguel Huerta: Th- the, the thing that, that we're facing, not only in Mexico but in Latin America as a whole, is that even though the, the, some of our countries, like Mexico or Brazil, are one...
• 59:16
  Miguel Huerta: They are some of the most, uh, biodiverse, uh, countries in the world, um, our national parks are not as well-equipped as the American national parks, you know?
• 59:28
  Miguel Huerta: Mm-hmm.
• 59:28
  Miguel Huerta: Um, that being, like, very basic infrastructure, like paved roads or that there are, uh, RV parks or places where you can camp.
• 59:38
  Miguel Huerta: That plus the, that a lot of people, they have this, uh, feeling that it might be unsafe to park in these areas.
• 59:48
  Miguel Huerta: That has not allowed the industry to boom.
• 59:51
  Miguel Huerta: Mm-hmm.
• 59:51
  Miguel Huerta: And that's why we're seeing such a huge jump on the glamping industry in Mexico as a whole because basically we went from zero to not 100, but, like, to a 70, and we basically skipped the camping phase.
• 1:00:08
  Miguel Huerta: Um, so sure, a lot of people, they wanna camp, but i- it's the lack of infrastructure and the, and that they don't feel safe, um, uh, that, uh, doesn't allow for n- for camping to, to grow.
• 1:00:24
  Miguel Huerta: Now, what we are seeing in couple of the glamping, um, uh, properties in, in Mexico is that they are devoting a small part of their, um, pieces of land for camping.
• 1:00:40
  Miguel Huerta: So at the end that is helping a little bit.
• 1:00:44
  Miguel Huerta: But, um, I think that we need, we need, like, a national policy on that.
• 1:00:52
  Miguel Huerta: Sadly, I don't foresee that that will happen in the upcoming eight years.
• 1:00:57
  Miguel Huerta: Um, uh, but it is the glamping that it's making, like, some sort- of relief for that, uh, for that, uh, market right now.
• 1:01:10
  Miguel Huerta: I don't know if that answered the question.
• 1:01:12
  Scott Bahr: No, no, it does.
• 1:01:13
  Scott Bahr: It does.
• 1:01:13
  Scott Bahr: No, but well, we obviously need to talk more at some point when, when we can.
• 1:01:18
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:01:19
  Brian Searl: Well, we'd love-
• 1:01:20
  Miguel Huerta: Sure
• 1:01:20
  Brian Searl: to continue the conversation, but we've gotta be cognizant of everybody's time here, and then we also have Outwired to do in, in, in about 45 minutes, so, uh, but final thoughts, we'll go around, uh, and start, start with
• 1:01:29
  Brian Searl: me, you, Miguel.
• 1:01:30
  Brian Searl: Final thoughts, and then where can they learn more about, uh, either camping in Mexico or your glamping resort or the Mexican Glamping Association, wherever you work or not.
• 1:01:37
  Miguel Huerta: Yes.
• 1:01:37
  Miguel Huerta: Yeah, sure.
• 1:01:38
  Miguel Huerta: Well, um, you can always look for our association, uh, on the Spanish, uh, like website asociacionmexicanadeglamping.com.
• 1:01:48
  Miguel Huerta: But, I mean, if you wanna have like this one-to-one conversations, which I think that, uh, we...
• 1:01:53
  Miguel Huerta: I, I have several pending, uh, conversations like that, you can always look for me on LinkedIn.
• 1:01:59
  Miguel Huerta: I'm as Miguel Huerta.
• 1:02:01
  Miguel Huerta: My company, it's called Nantli Living.
• 1:02:03
  Miguel Huerta: Our website is nantli.travel.
• 1:02:06
  Miguel Huerta: And the, my final thought will be, um, be very mindful on how you're gonna close this year.
• 1:02:14
  Miguel Huerta: Uh, I mean, Q4 is, uh, coming, uh, the winter is coming as, uh, Game of Thrones will say, and it's, uh, uh, we need to be very, very strong with that.
• 1:02:24
  Miguel Huerta: At least in Latin America, summer was very awful.
• 1:02:28
  Miguel Huerta: Um, but I'm, I, I am already seeing numbers, uh, for Q3 and Q4.
• 1:02:34
  Miguel Huerta: I'm seeing, uh, like strong numbers on that.
• 1:02:38
  Miguel Huerta: But, uh, I, I will recommend for people not to take things for granted.
• 1:02:43
  Miguel Huerta: Again, generating demand is the major challenge that I'm seeing re- regardless of the, uh, location and the property.
• 1:02:51
  Miguel Huerta: So start playing, uh, and playing with couple of ideas on how you can increase demand.
• 1:02:58
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Miguel.
• 1:02:58
  Brian Searl: Appreciate it.
• 1:02:59
  Brian Searl: Simon, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about CampMap?
• 1:03:02
  Simon Neal: Yeah, final thoughts is focus now is on the upcoming show season, so starting in two weeks in Croatia, Germany, then over to the US for the OHI and the KOA.
• 1:03:13
  Simon Neal: So looking forward to that, and also looking forward to the results of the, the OHI elections as well.
• 1:03:19
  Simon Neal: Um-
• 1:03:19
  Brian Searl: What were those again, Cathy?
• 1:03:20
  Brian Searl: I'm sorry, we forgot.
• 1:03:23
  Brian Searl: Okay.
• 1:03:23
  Brian Searl: Sorry, Simon, go ahead.
• 1:03:25
  Simon Neal: No worries.
• 1:03:25
  Simon Neal: Yeah, you can find out more about CampMap at campmap.com, or you can find me directly on LinkedIn.
• 1:03:32
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Simon.
• 1:03:33
  Brian Searl: Uh, Michael, final thoughts, and where can they learn more about anything you wanna promote?
• 1:03:36
  Michael Moore: Yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Michael Moore: Uh, I would say for me, I, I know a lot of, uh, campgrounds and folks are looking forward to heading into the new year, uh, with a little more positive outlook than we had the last couple years, so
• 1:03:49
  Michael Moore: I think everyone's ready for that.
• 1:03:51
  Michael Moore: Um, for TACO, or Texas Campgrounds, uh, you can visit tacomembers.com.
• 1:03:56
  Michael Moore: Uh, and then AGS, uh, Guest Guides, is just agspub.com.
• 1:04:02
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 1:04:02
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Michael.
• 1:04:03
  Brian Searl: Cathy, final thoughts, and then where can they learn more about Campground or any of your hats you wanna promote?
• 1:04:08
  Cathy Reinard: All righty.
• 1:04:09
  Cathy Reinard: So, um, I am the national director of the, uh, Campground Brokers of America, so long name, but campgroundbrokersofamerica.com.
• 1:04:18
  Cathy Reinard: You can, uh, find out more about the various brokers and reach me that way.
• 1:04:23
  Cathy Reinard: Um, you can find me on the Own a KOA page or, um, my campground is the Catskill Mountains Gilboa KOA.
• 1:04:30
  Cathy Reinard: I just love camping, love the space, and, um, am thrilled to be in it with multiple hats.
• 1:04:36
  Cathy Reinard: And I, uh, if you do...
• 1:04:38
  Cathy Reinard: Uh, plug for associations.
• 1:04:40
  Cathy Reinard: If you do not belong to an association, please join something.
• 1:04:45
  Cathy Reinard: I belong to every association my park can possibly belong to, which is many.
• 1:04:50
  Cathy Reinard: Um, state-
• 1:04:51
  Brian Searl: Does it have to be a campground association or can it be any association?
• 1:04:55
  Cathy Reinard: I, I, it, it, I, I just feel that if you own a campground, you should want to be involved federally, state, regionally, because all of these things impact your life.
• 1:05:07
  Cathy Reinard: And so we need to help all of these associations continue to exist and survive by paying our dues so that they can do what they do best for us, and be as awesome as TAHCO is under Michael's, um,
• 1:05:21
  Cathy Reinard: tutelage, because it is one of the strongest state associations in the country, and it has a lot to do with him.
• 1:05:27
  Cathy Reinard: So join an association if you're a campground owner, please do.
• 1:05:31
  Michael Moore: Couldn't have said it better myself, Cathy.
• 1:05:33
  Michael Moore: Thank you.
• 1:05:34
  Brian Searl: Thank you for being here, Cathy.
• 1:05:35
  Brian Searl: Scott, final thoughts, last but not least.
• 1:05:37
  Scott Bahr: Oh, just, uh, final thoughts are stay tuned for a lot more, uh, information coming out in the next couple months.
• 1:05:44
  Scott Bahr: Um, we'll be...
• 1:05:45
  Scott Bahr: W- we've been working with a lot of different people this year.
• 1:05:48
  Scott Bahr: You're gonna start seeing some of that information creep out in presentations at shows.
• 1:05:53
  Scott Bahr: I can't, you know, talk about it yet, but I will eventually.
• 1:05:56
  Scott Bahr: And, um, yeah, looking forward to the new year, and if anybody has, uh, questions they wanna ask on anything, please send them along.
• 1:06:04
  Scott Bahr: Uh, you can go to my website, cairnconsultinggroup.com.
• 1:06:07
  Scott Bahr: There's also a resource library that we are building bigger and better all the time.
• 1:06:12
  Scott Bahr: So, um, I'd love feedback on that as well.
• 1:06:16
  Brian Searl: Awesome.
• 1:06:16
  Brian Searl: Thanks for being here, Scott.
• 1:06:17
  Brian Searl: All right.
• 1:06:18
  Brian Searl: So for those of you who haven't, aren't sick and tired of me and Scott yet, uh, in about 45 minutes or 50 minutes, something like that, we'll be, uh, hosting Outwired Live.
• 1:06:24
  Brian Searl: We're gonna be talking about some, uh, occupancy numbers for fall travel.
• 1:06:27
  Brian Searl: We're gonna be talking about some boring stuff like the US Treasury bond and how that impacts campground valuations that Mr.
• 1:06:33
  Brian Searl: Jeff Hoffman brought to our attention.
• 1:06:34
  Brian Searl: Uh, and then we're gonna talk-
• 1:06:35
  Cathy Reinard: It is a big deal.
• 1:06:36
  Brian Searl: Yep, and we're gonna be talking about some new, uh, some of the new, um, AI agents that can browse and book travel for you and stuff like that.
• 1:06:42
  Brian Searl: So we'll be there in 55 minutes.
• 1:06:44
  Brian Searl: If not, we will see you next week on another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
• 1:06:46
  Brian Searl: Thanks, guys.
• 1:06:47
  Brian Searl: I appreciate you staying.
• 1:06:48
  Brian Searl: Have a good night.
• 1:06:49
  Simon Neal: Bye-bye.
• 1:06:49
  Cathy Reinard: Bye.
• 1:06:49
  Miguel Huerta: Thank you.
• 1:06:50
  Miguel Huerta: Bye.