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How She Won in Rooms That Weren't Built for Her · Unstoppable You

• Emily Peterman (00:00): One big thing is that people don't do enough is say what you want out loud. Even with those immediate goals, those ones that I put in my head, I would tell everybody because I wanted some accountability. If I said it out loud, then it's real and you have to go get it. Bree Katulak (00:16): Hey, I'm Bree and this is Unstoppable You, the podcast for women ready to stop choosing between their dreams, family and personal growth. Hey there. Welcome back to Unstoppable You. Today I'm chatting with a fellow board member, Emily Peterman, who is a driven, disciplined leader who has built her career through consistency, grit, and a clear belief in what she's capable of achieving. She brings a sharp, intuitive understanding of both business and people paired with authentic edge and a confidence that comes from doing the work and knowing her value. Emily and I serve together on the Young President's Organization or YPO's Indiana Board. She's the spouse officer and I'm the family officer. While we haven't known each other for years on end, there has absolutely been a natural respect that comes from watching how she shows up consistently, authentically, and with a confidence that's hard to miss. (01:29): Every single room that I have been in with Emily, she easily and gracefully commands it while simultaneously making people feel so welcome and heard. And I think that's her superpower. So the conversation today is about getting to know that person behind that presence, what drives her, what she's navigated and how she's built a career and a life that are distinctly her own. I remember sitting in a board meeting with Emily, we are the only two women on the board and a topic came up about always needing at least two women in any forum for the group that we're in. And we've looked at each other like, wait a second. So now we need a buddy? And it's not that we were trying to be dismissive at all. It was more of a shared understanding. So we both have spent our careers in male dominated environments and at some point you have to stop thinking about who's in the room with you and start focusing on the value that you bring to it. (02:38): Not because we didn't value representation because we absolutely think that's important, but because of building the confidence that we have over our careers to hold our own in those rooms. (02:56): All right, thank you for coming today, Emily. I really appreciate you making the time. Before we get started, I just kind of wanted to ask you to get your opinion, what does having it all mean to you in both your work and personal life? Emily Peterman (03:10): Having it all to me means that I can be fulfilled in every aspect of my life and being a mother looks different for me than it does for other people. Some people having it all means they get to spend every moment with their kids and mine is that I get quality time with my kids and that I get to set an example for my daughter, that you can kind of choose your path forward and your career. And honestly, that there's nothing standing in my way for what I want to do in my career.That's really having it all to me. Bree Katulak (03:44): Yeah, no, I completely agree. And now I can't remember who it was that said it, but it's a famous CEO, woman CEO that said, "I'm a three-hour mom and I am very focused and dedicated in three hours of every day, but the rest of my day is work or some sort of growth and development." And that really struck me and I know she's getting judged a lot for that, but I think that's awesome. I think that's empowering and she knows when she shows up best as being a mom and I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't know if you have specific opinions on that. Emily Peterman (04:22): It's funny because you hear the word mom guilt all the time. Bree Katulak (04:24): Yes. Emily Peterman (04:25): But dad guilt doesn't exist. Bree Katulak (04:27): Right. Emily Peterman (04:28): What do you say dad guilt before? We have come so far, but it's still kind of ingrained in people that the woman should be the homemaker and the caretaker and that's your role. And there's people that are much better mothers because they do have a career and they get to come home happy and fulfilled and be in a good mood and want to see their kids and they're not fricked out because they're stuck at home doing something that they don't want to do. And again, it's vice versa too. There's mothers that they dream to be at home with their kids all day and that's their idea of having it all. Bree Katulak (05:03): Exactly. I completely agree. Completely. What do you think some of the early influences were on your ambition and just your natural drive in life? Emily Peterman (05:14): So I've always been extremely competitive and when I was a kid, it was like backyard games, goes to the graveyard, whenever we were playing. My aunt made a comment to my mom one time, she was like, "I'm never going to be on Emily's team during corn hole because if I don't do my part and we don't win, I don't think she'll talk to me for the rest of my life." So I was born competitive for sure. And then I think as I grew up, I was kind of a tomboy and so I had a lot of interest in things that maybe weren't typical for a girl to have interest in. I was very into football. It was, well, why? And all the kind of questioning of what my interests were. And it became a sense of like, well, you can't do that or you shouldn't be doing that. (05:58): And maybe it's just because I'm a contrarian, but I'm like, okay, well, if you tell me I can't, then I'm going to try harder to. And that kind of stuck with me for the rest of my life probably. Bree Katulak (06:10): Do you feel like that ever shook your confidence when people were telling you that you shouldn't be doing that or why are you interested? Or do you feel like you almost doubled down and you were like, "No, this is me. Emily Peterman (06:21): " I doubled down for sure. And if anything, that doubt has crept in actually much later in my life and I'm sure we'll probably hit on this later, but it is hard when you have all of these voices telling you what you should be, how you should act, what you should say, when to be quiet, when to speak, when to have an opinion, when your opinion is important, when it's not. And the biggest thing about me is that I don't really care what people think. I'm very much a believer in turning off the outside voices because the most important voice is yourself. A lot of times we overthink what people will think of you when they've got so many other things on their mind, then you're every move. And so you really are in control of others, how they perceive you by what you put out and how confident and the belief that you have in yourself and creating that buy-in from others. Bree Katulak (07:23): I love what you just said because especially as being a CEO and having the board of directors and then every employee throughout the organization, you get a lot of voices coming at you on how you should behave and how you should present certain things. What you said that really struck me is you, I might misphrase this, so feel free to correct me, but you don't ultimately care what other people think of you. I do. I am a people pleaser to my core and I hate that about myself. I wish I wasn't. I'm trying to grow and develop on that. Do you have advice for people like me that I try to take a step back and filter out all the voices and go with my gut, but there have been instances where I haven't and those are the instances that I feel like it doesn't go well. (08:11): So I'm kicking myself for that. Emily Peterman (08:13): It's so funny because again, it's almost like you're afraid of an unknown reaction or this and the reaction is probably never as big as you think it's going to be, but the regret is enormous. We talked on a couple weeks ago and I think I said something silly like I'd rather meddle than settle. I would rather speak up and have my opinion heard and considered than months down the road be thinking, "Ugh, why didn't I just say something?" To me, the risk outweighs the reward in that scenario. And honestly, the best advice I think is just to do it and see what happens because it's almost like a fear that you're conquering and then you'll be like, "Oh, maybe that wasn't so bad." Or you see positive impact from it like, "Oh, they appreciated my opinion." Or maybe I thought they were going to be mad, but they appreciated my honesty. (09:05): I think the outcome is a lot better in real life. Bree Katulak (09:08): Yeah, I think that's great advice. And I definitely think it's important too, to trust your gut and to trust your instincts. And I think sometimes that gets overlooked a lot more in the workplace than it probably should. But yeah. So I mean, with conquering that fear and everything that you just talked about, to you owning your career, what does that mean to you and how do you feel like you've truly owned it throughout the progression of your career? Emily Peterman (09:36): When I started, I had no idea what I was doing. I always like to say I've never really been qualified on paper for a single job that I've gotten, but I figured it out along the way. And when I started, we all have sales goals and that's something that's handed to us from the company and that's kind of status quo. And once I started doing that, I knew I wanted more. So how can I create my own goals and my own success? Okay, I'm hitting my sales goal, that's fine, but well, what if I want to do something bigger? What if I want to do something greater than what I'm doing today? And so I started making up my own goals. I want to be the first woman in Lucky Seven. I want to make Chairman's Club. I want to do X amount of number and revenue because it's never been done before at this property in the history of the history at Purdue, we've never hit this number. (10:29): We've never done a deal this size. So I just kind of started creating my own goals and creating that growth so I could feel accomplished. And then once all that got accomplished, I got to fortunately check all that stuff off. One big thing is that people don't do enough, I think men or women, is say what you want out loud. Even with those immediate goals, those ones that I put in my head, I would tell everybody because I wanted some accountability. If I said it out loud, then it's real and you have to go get it. And then also talking to people about what you want in your career and my company's incredible, but there are not a ton of companies who actively pick people out and say, "Hey, do you want a promotion? Do you want to grow?" So talking to people along the way, "Hey, I have a lot of interest in this or I'd love to shadow you or I'd love to learn more about this department. (11:30): Hey, I want to be this one day. I want it to be under me one day." And kind of talking about those plans out loud and that got to a point where they created the position that I'm in at this property we had also never had a director before to enable my career growth because they knew that I was hungry for it. Bree Katulak (11:49): Yeah, that's amazing. Do you feel like you've had one or two really key mentors throughout your career? Emily Peterman (11:57): I've had a few. I will say I've had one individual who's ... I shouldn't say that. I've had a lot. I've had a lot of not even mentors but cheerleaders and people who really believed in me and heard me say that I wanted to do this on day one and were just as excited for me when it happened. And one thing I think I saw a quote somewhere was, "Surround yourself with people who will bring up your name in boardrooms even when you're not there." Those are the type of people that I have in my corner and one of my vice presidents who's been with me since I was hired, my whole leadership knows who I am because of him, because he talks about me in the boardrooms when I'm not there and that is so huge to me. And then I think on the other side, one thing I've always made sure to do is surround myself with people that are better and smarter than me. (12:52): And so very early on in my career, I found a group of people who were really good at what they do and I called them my iron chapreneurs and I just learned from them and I absorbed and looked at different styles and how can I apply this to what I'm doing or how can I learn from this lesson? And so the combination of those two groups, I would never in a million years be where I'm at without them. Bree Katulak (13:19): Yeah, I think that's amazing because I feel like it's so common in the world, the workplace, whatever you may think of, that people get afraid when there are people that are smarter than them in the room. And I just feel like why? I want to be not the dumbest in the room, but I don't want to be the smartest in the room. I want people to push me. I want to grow and learn and take all of that as opportunity more than anything else. So I love that you said that and focus on that. Did you ever have that fear even early in your career or how did that progress? Emily Peterman (13:55): No, because I knew I was never going to be ... I mean, in the beginning, again, I had no idea unbeknownst to all people that hired me, I had no idea what I was doing. But even today, no matter how much you grow and how much succes have, there's always going to be somebody you can learn from. If you don't have the desire that you just spoke about to always want somebody smarter than you in the room, you're going to be stagnant because no matter what career field you're in or walk of life, things are constantly evolving and there's always, always ways to learn and grow. And I mean, that is probably the most important thing to do in your career if you want to be successful. Bree Katulak (14:37): Completely agree. Completely agree. So talking about success then, do you define success differently now than you did earlier in your career or do you feel like your definition has been pretty similar throughout? Emily Peterman (14:50): Again, being a former athlete, a competitor, succes very much was black and white. It was numbers. Am I on page one of the goal hitters? Do I have the highest percent to goal? Did I do a bigger deal than everybody else? It was a very selfish ... We always joke. I'm like, it's Mamba mentality where I'm a big Kobe Bryant person where he just hated to lose and nothing was going to stand in his way and he did not care if you thought he was too competitive or that whatever it was, he didn't care. And I love that Mamba mentality. In my new role, my job really is for everyone else to be successful. And honestly, a fear that I had was, well, I think I'm too selfish for this because in this role, every time there's maybe a potential to close a big deal, I should pay that off for my team to close because their success is my success and how do I mentally adjust to that? (15:54): Because to me, success was whether or not what members were on paper and it wasn't a me sport anymore as a team sport. How do I redefine that, what success is? So that's been a struggle for me the past year. Success used to be very much about, like I said, my performance. Now it's me getting to help a seller close a deal or this is what I would do, or teaching them kind of a strategy and then watching them apply it in real life, that is fun for me and creating a team that honestly trusts me and wants to come to me for advice and not because they have to. So yeah, it's definitely success is different today. Bree Katulak (16:35): Did you feel like there were any major obstacles or did you learn something about yourself as you were going through that progression over the last year? Emily Peterman (16:42): Yeah, it was kind of going back to what we talked about earlier, how do I overcome this fear and just do it and see how it goes because I thought I'm going to hate this. I'm going to hate when I hand up a deal and somebody else closes this huge deal and it's theirs and not mine. And it was a fake it till you make it kind of deal. And when it happened, I wasn't mad. I was excited. I had kind of the opposite reaction of how I thought I'd feel about it. So it was really just, here's the fear and I'm just going to run straight through the brick wall and see if it hurts. I love that. Bree Katulak (17:19): I love that. And I love that you were able to evolve and grow even further in your career. Emily Peterman (17:25): And I was very honest about it and everyone knew. Again, I was open, "Hey, this is going to be hard for me. Be patient. This has been my mindset forever and I want to be the best leader possible, so hold me accountable too." And I think it's okay to be vulnerable with your team. Bree Katulak (17:42): A hundred percent. I think that you'll agree. I mean, the vulnerability, the transparency, I think that is what builds the greatest amount of trust and your team probably appreciated that so much. Okay. I guess as we transition onto more in the conversation, I wanted to talk about being unstoppable because I see you as someone that is truly unstoppable. I mean, you just said it, you would run through a brick wall and you're not going to let that fear stand in your way. So to you, what does being unstoppable mean? Emily Peterman (18:15): Being unstoppable is, honestly, it's the belief in yourself. I see a lot of people who maybe they were stay-at-home mothers and they were out of the workforce for a while and they want to get back in or they have to get back in to provide for their families and their biggest fear is not being qualified or not being good enough. And some very, very close people to me have gone through this and I was not on paper the best hire, the number one hire. I was not an honor role student and I didn't have all these internships and all this experience and everything that you should have on paper, but it didn't matter because I believed in myself and I knew that I could do the job better than anyone I was interviewing against. And at the end of the day, the most important thing is for people, it's who you are and to be able to define what you're capable of and knowing you can go in and learn any business, but apply your own personal skills. (19:17): Everybody is so unique and they all have such a unique set of skills and you need to identify what you have that is unique to you that is so important for somebody else's business to be able to go out and be successful on what you can bring to the table because I promise you it's there and discovering it and then not being afraid to tell somebody else why you think you can do what you can do, it's really pivotal. Bree Katulak (19:46): Yeah, I completely agree. Do you feel like the result that you've achieved throughout your career is what's driven your confidence or do you feel like you just innately have the confidence and know that you're going to be able to power through and achieve the results that you want? Emily Peterman (20:03): I honestly think it was the confidence first because again, I didn't have experience for most of the jobs that I've worked in and I learned along the way and yeah, I probably did fake it a little bit and convinced them I was capable of doing something because I knew if I learned it, I could do it. It's probably maybe over the top where I think I can do anything. Am I going to be wrong about stuff? Yeah, I'm going to think I can do stuff. And then at the end of the day, maybe I can't, but maybe I can. Bree Katulak (20:37): Exactly. So I do want to talk about, you mentioned earlier about setting goals such as the Chairman's Club and being in the Lucky Seven. Can you tell me about that experience? Emily Peterman (20:47): Yeah, because honestly, it's an experience that I think I appreciate more and more as I grow. In the beginning it was Lucky Seven, for example, I went to a big sales conference that we had in Atlanta and it was 500 people. I was one of very few women and I saw some dudes walking around and these big old loud cowboy boots with dollar signs on them and Uncle Sam on the bottom and these cowboy hats, but just it was this lure that I was interested in. And I asked somebody to sit next to me because he kicked his boots up on the table we're sitting at and I was like, "What is this? " I was like, "Oh, Lucky Seven." And this guy was from Lubbock, Texas. So it was just a perfect fit that he sold with this company and I actually recently told him the story, but I just thought it was so cool. (21:42): I was like, "Oh, who's in Lucky Seven?" And I scanned the room and there wasn't a woman in Lucky Seven. It was something where I don't know why I'm like this, but I just have something inside me where I want to do some things that people haven't done before. I was like, "Well, I want to be in Lucky Seven, and I'm going to be dead honest with you. It was a very selfish goal. I wanted to do it because I thought it would be cool. I wasn't thinking about let me empower women or anything like that at the time.This was just me mama mentality. Oh, you think I can't do it? I'm going to do it. " And I set out that goal and I remember I missed, barely missed and I was so disappointed and I was, "Well, this isn't fair. These people's their books of business are bigger and it's easier for them, but it didn't matter because the rules were the rules." And so I was like, okay, well, even if it's an uneven playing field or whatever it is, I just have to go outwork everybody. (22:43): And so I tried again and I did it. I got it on the second try. It was such a good feeling. (22:56): I mean, you talk about a group of iron sharpeners, these are still people I'm close with today. One of the aftermath of it was I was walking around in a cowboy hat and a black evening gown and I'm walking around our sales conference and I had so many females come up to me and say, "This is so cool. I want to do this. I want to be a girl, Monkey seven." It wasn't until after I achieved that I thought, oh, this could be impactful for others because just the same as a lot of minorities in the workplace, and I have a lot of friends that are minorities, we talk about this. Our presentation is so important and seeing people who look like you or come from your background, achieve things will give you that for those people who do care about what other people think or you have that self-doubt, seeing yourself in others that are successful is huge. (23:50): And so I did that with my other goals as well. I said, "I want to be in Chairman's Club." When I say property, it's the school that you represent their athletics department. So produce an incredible property to be at and we have a ton of success, but there's also Ohio State and Alabama and just these monsters out there that I'm competing against. And it was similar paths to a lot of my other kind of personal goals. So Chairman's Club was one of them. I think I missed out three years in a row, but I had told everybody I'm going to make Chairman's Club. And again, I didn't care if they saw me fail because I knew that eventually they'd see me win. I was not afraid to say it out loud because that held me accountable. I knew if I said it out loud, then I had to go do it. Bree Katulak (24:37): Was anyone in your organization or on the peripheral, did they ever make comments that tried to shake you when you didn't make it or was everyone always supportive? Because I mean, not everything is always smooth sailing. Emily Peterman (24:51): I told somebody one time in leadership, I was kind of a personal check-in and Preston's no longer with the company, and he was talking to me about, "How are you in your career?" And I said, "You know what I really want to do? I want to be the first girl in Lucky Seven. I would win Closer of the Year, make Chairman's Club." And I remember he was like, "Whoa, whoa, sure, maybe down the road my Italian blood was hot and it just gave me that fuel." But I honestly think that the people who don't believe in you are just as important as the people who do. At the end of the day, you get to show everybody either, "Hey, look, I told you I could do this, " or, "Hey, look, I told you I could do this. " Bree Katulak (25:38): Yeah. As you were telling that story, I could literally feel my heart rate rising and my anger boiling. I mean, that had to give you more fuel to fight for that outcome Emily Peterman (25:50): Absolutely. And to your earlier point, you asked me, "Have you always been this way?" And I told you the doubt kind of crept in later in life. It was almost kind of that ignorance thing when I was younger where I wasn't aware of the bias, but it's almost like little kids when they don't the innocence that little kids have where you love to listen to them and they haven't let judgment and the biases that they learned creep in their brains yet. So it's really refreshing. And that's kind of how I was growing up. I had no idea anyone would treat me any differently until I actually experienced it. And so I've had many times where I remember walking into a room and it was on a man and myself and we were in there for a meeting and we were two people on the same team and we were both responsible for the same vertical in this organization and we walked in and, "Oh, nice to meet you, to him." And this man looked at the man I was with and said, "Oh, is this your assistant?" And this was kind of early on in my early 20s and I remember being actually stopped in my tracks, are you kidding me? (26:58): Maybe I misheard. My business partner at the time, he looked at me and he said, "Hey, if anything, I'm her assistant." And again, it takes both of those kind of people, I think, to fuel me, the people that will say those types of things even outside of the workplace I've been with my husband in a setting where it was my industry, somebody was trying to win over my husband's business and he introduced himself to my husband and skipped over me and introduced himself to my brother-in-law and I was standing there and we walked away and I said, "You'll never spend a dime with him." It's how you treat people. Yes. And I've always, always tried to lead with how I would want to be treated when I engage others as well. I want to make sure every single person in the room is heard and feels like their opinion matters and that they're important regardless if they're 22 or they're 60. (27:57): It's their first year or they're going to retire. It's to me making people's opinion fee important. It empowers that self-belief and confidence that you need to be successful and your team's not going to be successful if they don't feel empowered. Bree Katulak (28:12): Right. I completely agree. And I think I have always felt that from you. I know we haven't known each other for years on end by any means, but every time we're in the boardroom together, you always take the time to hear other people's perspectives and you're confident in potentially challenging them if you have a different opinion or thought, but it's always so respectful. I think that's a superpower that you have and I absolutely love that about you for sure. Emily Peterman (28:41): Thank you so much. It's something unique that I think has been pivotal in my success. Yeah, it's one of my unique skillsets. It's not for everybody, but being able to be very honest with people in a way where they come away kind of grateful and it's a way to build trust. You don't have to be rude, but to be an expert in my field means that I'm going to tell you that this is good, but also this is bad. If you're just telling people what they want to hear all the time, I don't know that you come off as real or as honest as somebody would want to be if they're trusting you with the business decision. Bree Katulak (29:24): Yep, I completely agree. And it's funny, everything that you just said just reminded me of a time where I was in a meeting and I had to persuade someone that we should switch systems and no one wanted to do it. Obviously that's a lot of work for people and I get it, but the end result was going to be so much better. And I remember after the meeting my CFO told me, she was like, "That was really good." She was like, "You're a velvet hammer." She was like, "You just delivered a really tough message that people didn't want to hear and you were honest about it. " And people walked out happy. She was I, oh my gosh. And I was like, well, that's fun. I really like that phrase. So I feel like you should take that too. And you can say, I'm the velvet hammer. (30:09): It just reminded me of that story and I love it. But yeah. Oh, that's awesome. So I guess if we go back to the trip, can we talk about the trip that you won for all of your hard work and accomplishments? How did that make you feel? How has it impacted the women in your company after the fact? And let's talk a little bit about that. Emily Peterman (30:30): Yeah, that was kind of another moment similar to the Lucky Seven moment where I was really, I just set out to do it because it was something I wanted to win at. And when I got there by this time they had tiered off. So it used to just be the same schools, the big powerhouses that won every single year. And honestly, partially because of my barking all the time about level playing field, they created a second tier for kind of non-Power five schools, Power four, I'm sorry. So that some of the smaller schools, it was a more inclusive opportunity. When we went, I got to meet a lot of people around the company and I had a girl from the Don P4 group come up to me and say, "Hey, I just wanted to introduce myself. I've been looking up to you for a very long time and you're a success in being a woman in this field and saying your name at the top of lists all the time. (31:28): And you're part of the reason I'm here. I've looked at you and she's like, so it's very cool that I'm here with you, that I've looked up to you and now I'm here alongside of you. " And I was sitting there looking at her like, "What are you talking about? How do you know my name?" I probably was looking at her like she had five heads because I had never, again, really considered the impact. And it is so important and it is so meaningful to me that, I mean, I remember I was teary-eyed walking away and I went straight to my husband and I was like, "You will not believe what I just heard." And I still appreciate that she said that to me because it really made me realize, "Hey, people are watching you and if not for yourself, go do it for everyone else. (32:19): Make sure that that path is there for others to follow and that for those that maybe not have 150% confidence that they can or delusion, in my case, that you can do stuff." It was very cool. Bree Katulak (32:32): That is really neat. That gave me goosebumps for sure. I love that. If you had your little fan girl club. Emily Peterman (32:38): It Bree Katulak (32:38): Pops up Emily Peterman (32:38): To them for sure. Bree Katulak (32:39): What advice would you have for other women that maybe don't feel like they're unstoppable today but want to be? What would you tell them? Emily Peterman (32:49): I would tell them to do it anyways. If you think, and I still go through this sometimes, there have been times where I have experienced feedback. I raised my hand and spoke my opinion on something if I didn't disagree. So I didn't agree with them. It was coming from me who maybe is in a different package than some of the other men in our company. And for some people when it's coming from me, it's, "Oh, she's a bulldog." Sometimes you got to rain in the leash. I'm very much somebody who has never bought into what people say about you, but when you hear things along the way, I'm human at the end of the day so sometimes it was in the back of my head and oh, maybe I am being too opinionated in this situation. Maybe I am barking again. Because a lot of the times when going back to great mentors, I've kind of had this internal conflict sometimes and so I do hold back. (33:49): And then finally when I bring an issue to him and I'll say, "Well, I didn't want to say anything because it's just me with an opinion." And his response every single time is, "If you don't say it, nobody else will, and then it will never get fixed." They come to me with these issues because they know I have the confidence to bring them to leadership where they may not. And so where sometimes I feel like I'm like, "Just shut up already." I've also learned that I'm not doing it. It's not because of me. It's not because I love the staff of my own voice. It's because I need to carry this water for my team and I need to go get these things done and that's why I'm in this position. I'm here to fight for them and better our company and not everyone feels comfortable speaking up. (34:37): So do it for everyone else. I have conversations with myself in my head sometimes where I'm like, "Okay, just be quiet. Just don't say anything. Don't speak up this time." And then I'm like, "Or what? What's the worst that can happen?" A guy in a different office across the country is going to call me a bulldog next time my name gets brought up in conversation, so what? Or they're going to listen to me and come back and go, "Hey, we made these changes and this is great and you're going to be able to do A, B and C now." And we're opening up Chairman's Club for properties that don't bill as much as the rest of the country because we do want to incentivize and level the playing field. That is such a better outcome than some person in Timbuktu that calls me a bulldog. (35:27): I don't care. Again, the risk is outweighing the reward. Bree Katulak (35:30): For sure. So I know you have a daughter too. How are you raising her to be unstoppable? Emily Peterman (35:37): From the jump, her name is Blake. When her resume comes in for a hiring manager, they will not know if she is a female or a male. She cannot immediately be discriminated against. So before she was born, I was ... Bree Katulak (35:51): Did you think that before? Because I love that. That's great. Now I need to go rename my children. Emily Peterman (35:59): That shouldn't be too hard not to be Bree Katulak (36:01): Honest. No, not a problem at all. Emily Peterman (36:03): I always loved the thought of a gender neutral name. It's funny because it's happened to me currently. I'm currently hiring and I'm going through resumes and there was one where I thought it was going to be a male and it was a female and I was, yeah, wait a minute. Let's probably be Blake one day. So from the beginning, honestly, I wanted to give her that to start off with. And then we've put her in sports and there was never a co-ed sport. So I think that kind of environment is encouraging and you're on an actual level playing field. And then I take her to work with me and I've got I love you mom here on my board and she sees me come into an office full of men and really just exposing her to, "Hey, where are you going to be tonight? I have to work. (36:58): This is what I do and this is how I help our family." And really, I think the number one thing that I tried to give to her to arm her with is exposure to my dedication to my career. I think that's kind of the easiest way to do it and the most effective way to do it in my eyes. Bree Katulak (37:16): Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I'm sure she feels your passion for what you do and I think that probably speaks volumes too. That's awesome. Cool. Do you have anything that you want to make sure that we hone in on or did I miss anything? Emily Peterman (37:31): One thing that's important to me, you're allowed to be in a job or a career because you want to. I think we've talked about this in the past, but I'm married to somebody who is very well connected in the business world and gets recognized and is part of a lot of groups and kind of is looked at as the successful one in our family. I often have people say to me, "Why don't you just go stay at home or why do you work? Why are you going into an office? Can't you just go home and be with the kids or why don't you go be with your family?" And it's absolutely infuriating to me. Bree Katulak (38:16): I don't understand why everyone has to have their opinion be voiced or heard, right? Emily Peterman (38:22): What's funny is I think they think it's a compliment. I don't think they mean it as a ... And that's part of the problem. "Oh, hey, you're fine. You get to do whatever you want. I'm doing whatever I want. This is it. "There's always been this stigma or stereotype that women's ultimate goal is to be able to be taken care of by a man and maybe you work because you have to or you worked until you get to a point where your husband can take care of you and you get to go live a certain lifestyle or at least your bills are covered or whatever it is that your end goal is. But if you're a two-career household that's out of necessity and it pisses me off. Bree Katulak (39:03): It does. Yes, I completely agree. I mean, early in our marriage we always said too, if one career has to take the backseat is how I'll phrase it, it was going to be his because I have to work. I love it. I don't think I would be the best stay at home mom. I think I would feel resentment or like I almost lost myself, if that makes sense. I need that drive and I have a passion for building teams and scaling companies and yeah, I completely understand. It would absolutely piss me off Emily Peterman (39:43): And so encouraging and amazing that your husband understands that and is willing to do whatever to support you. And that's been huge in my career as well is never once has Chad looked at my career as anything as important than his. And we had to be, I work Saturdays, I'm at all the football games, I work nights, it's an hour drive and it's an entire basketball game and I'm entertaining and all this stuff. Great. I'll stay home with the kids. And you've got these two days that you've got these events, I've got these events, we're going to divide and conquer because we're a team. And that kind of teamwork and support is so necessary in a relationship in order to have that kind of lifestyle. And it's okay that again, you very beginning, what does success look like? It's okay that success doesn't look like I've got a lifestyle where I can sit at home. (40:43): It could be, I want to be as great in my own career as I can. And maybe that doesn't even necessarily have to mean that you're going to go be a CEO. That could be that you're going to be the very best, whatever the job is that you have today, that you come home and you feel good about yourself because you know that you're important, that you're able, that you're special, that you do have a certain skillset and superpower. You got to see it in action today. Bree Katulak (41:11): Absolutely. I could not agree more. I mean, that's why I started this podcast. So I hate that society tells us what success looks like. It's almost a framework. And if you don't fit within that, you're seen as an outcast in some way. And I think it's so great to see, in my opinion, this revolution that's happening with women our age where we're like, no, that's not what it looks like anymore. And I'm defining succes for me and my family and those are the stories that I want to bring out and I'm so excited. Emily Peterman (41:50): I think for a long time that a woman's desires or what made her happy or fulfilled was kind of secondary. I've got a lot of friends that don't even want kids. I've got a friend that's an amazing labor and delivery nurse and she has an incredible schedule because her number one desire is to go travel the world and she's not going to have kids, but she's the most incredible aunt and to her actual nieces and nephews and to her friend's kids. And she is living the life that she's dreamt of and that is amazing for her. And so it's, what does your dream life look like? And I kind of joked earlier, my definition of trophy wife is this. Bree Katulak (42:31): Yes. I forgot about that. I love that. We are redefining trophy life. Emily Peterman (42:36): Yes. Let's redefine what a trophy wife looks like. I'm not meant to be quiet and sit on somebody's arm. This fuels me and I always laugh. I'm like, I mean, how simple am I that wooden baseball bat just drives me every day, but it is. It's an accomplishment to me and it makes me happy and that's okay. And that's what I want people to be able really to know and generations is you can be a single woman that doesn't want kids and has a full-time career and travels to the world, or you can be a stay-at-home mom and be happy every day. Maybe you're homeschooling, maybe you're keeping a house, whatever it is, getting to fulfill a hobby, or you can go and sit in every boardroom (43:31): In America and like you and I connected on in the first place, you can be there because you belong and it doesn't have to be, "Oh, she's a girl boss or a CEO." No, she's just a boss and a CEO and you are the living, breathing example of that. I love that you get to be in a group where I'm sure it's happened to you where people maybe think that you're the spouse and you get to turn around and say, "No, I'm the member." And so I love seeing that play out in real life and so I respect and admire you for that, for setting that example. Bree Katulak (44:13): I appreciate that. Yeah. It's fun sometimes to have that shock factor go across people's faces. "Oh, I'm a member. "Loved it. And just see how they react because apparently I like making people uncomfortable. Emily Peterman (44:28): It's fun, right? Bree Katulak (44:29): It is kind of fun, for sure. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Emily. I've had a ton of fun today. Emily Peterman (44:35): Thanks for creating this platform too, because I think it's super important. And again, something I'm learning later in life is having the examples out there and not being afraid to talk about it. Bree Katulak (44:46): The awareness and getting it out there, that's my number one goal. I want to inspire people to take action, right? Push past that fear. Well, I hope you have an awesome weekend. Emily Peterman (44:56): You too. Bree Katulak (44:56): Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Tell Chad I said hi. I Emily Peterman (45:00): Will. Bye. Bree Katulak (45:01): Okay. (45:01): All right. So here is my challenge for you this week. I want you to think and reflect about how you show up in the rooms that you're in, not just what you say, but how you carry yourself, how you respond and how you make others feel because presence isn't just about confidence. It's truly about awareness. So start paying attention and I want you to reflect on what are your default patterns under pressure. Are you more direct? Are you more analytical or are you more people focused or more steady? And then I want you to ask yourself, am I adjusting based on who I'm working with or am I expecting everyone else to adapt to me? Because the people who truly stand out like Emily aren't just confident in what they bring, but they're intentional on how they show up and real growth isn't just about what you achieve. (46:11): It's about understanding your impact on the people around you and choosing to get better because of it. This is your life. Define it, live it, become Unstoppable. Thank you for listening to Unstoppable You. If this episode was helpful, I'd love to know. Connect with me on LinkedIn at Bree Katulak. That's K-A-T-U-L-A-K on LinkedIn and shoot me a message. This show is for you. Be Unstoppable. I'll see you next time.