Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Chef Dan Kennedy Discusses Mental Health, Social Media, and Kitchen Culture | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 131

Transcript

Chef Dan Kennedy Discusses Mental Health, Social Media, and Kitchen Culture | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 131 · Chef's PSA Podcast

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Hello chefs, this is Chefs KSA podcast.
0:01
I'm your host Andre Natera. On today's episode we have chef
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Dan Kennedy. He's currently the head chef at
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Pasta Bar in Austin. He's been in the industry for
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over 20 years working in Michelin one and two star
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restaurants under some great chefs like Noodle Afreb, the
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Voltageur brothers. This is a really great
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conversation. I think you'll enjoy it as much
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as I did. We get into mental health, the
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importance of sous chefs, social media content creation.
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You'll enjoy this episode. Stay tuned.
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1:14
It's good to see you. You as well.
1:16
You as well. So one of the things that I
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wanted to touch on is, you know, we, we connected and I, for
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people that don't know, I think you have one of the best social
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media accounts for content. I appreciate that.
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And we, and we talked about this before, but there's a lot of
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content creators out there and it's almost saturated on
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Instagram 'cause you could scroll, scroll, scroll, and it
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kind of all looks the same. I personally am not a huge fan
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of cooking content creation in general.
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When it's a show, yeah, I like it when it's technical and I'm
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learning something and it's like, I've never seen that
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before. Or I could appreciate what I'm
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watching. Boy, that's really skillful and
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I like yours. And we talked about this before.
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People are sleeping if they're not watching what you're doing
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and noticing the finer details like your knife cuts.
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You have excellent broom wah, excellent broom wah, excellent
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technique. And I love watching it because
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I'm like, when I first saw it, I was like, holy shit, that's
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good. Then I stopped, right?
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And the other thing that I really like about your content
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is you have good hip hop music on there too.
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So it's like, so it's like good technique, good hip hop music.
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But what got you into content creation?
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So first of all, thank you. I appreciate that.
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But what really got me into it, I moved to Austin two years ago
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and, you know, when I first got here, I had friends who were
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from here. They were like, Austin's not
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quick to like welcome, you know, people in and, you know,
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newcomers, especially if you know you're coming in from like
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an East Coast city being like, look at me.
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So it was. Seeing a lot of content creators
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and like this huge following that everyone has and you know,
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for the most part, just being like, I think I can do that.
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And it's like I have good skills that I've accumulated over
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almost 20 years now and I really just wanted to put myself out
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there. That's again why I do like the
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hip hop music. Like hip hop's a huge part of my
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life. Music's a huge part of my life.
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But just to start, like kind of getting my name out there and
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not being like as far as coming on the restaurant scene and
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being like, oh, I have like all this experience and look at me
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and like, rather than just doing that, coming in on social media
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and showing people just who I am and what I'm about when it
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whether it's food or music or just whatever, and really just
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starting to try and get my name out there like that.
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I think it's a great Ave. that, you know, in the past it was
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just work, work, work and hopefully one day maybe you'll
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get some recognition. I think social media is great in
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the sense that you put all the effort out there and like it's a
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new Ave. for you to get your name out there and just more
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press. One of the things for people
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that don't know, so I like the way that you Brunois like a
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pedal by pedal. Yeah.
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And so you do lines, turn it, and then a lot of people don't
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do that. Where'd you pick up that
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technique? Because that's a technique that
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I do as well. And that's the way I would teach
4:14
by cooks how to do it. And obviously it got passed down
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to me by other chefs as well. So when I, when I do it that way
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for the first time and I show people that have never seen it,
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like I've never seen that before, you can't go back.
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No, it's hard to go back when you know how to do it that way.
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So I'm curious. So I was working in a restaurant
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in Philly. I was working for a chef named
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Justin Bogle and one of his sous chefs, Joseph Robert, says he's
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AG in the kitchen and he was watching me like do the
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traditional Brin laws one day and he's like should do it like
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this. He's like, it's going to be way
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better way consistent. And you know, at first I was
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like, I'm a good cook. I don't need to change the way I
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do things. And then all of a sudden I kept
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looking and I was like, it's perfect.
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It's consistent. And like when you're cooking at
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like that certain of a level, you know, I was he was A2
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Michelin star chef, you know, a certain point in his career.
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So, you know, obviously I wanted to work for those types of chefs
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and I wanted to be like that. So just seeing that I was like,
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it is perfect. It is consistent and it's OK to
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like say like the way I was doing it isn't the best way to
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do it. So yeah, like you said, like
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once you start doing it, there's no going back.
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I remember one time my first sous chef job, I was making
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pomodoro and I was cutting onions that way.
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Bring along and perfectly. And one of the coaches like, why
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are you doing that? He's like, you're just going to
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blend it. And I'm like, because I know I
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did it the right way. Like that's just, it's for me to
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know that like I'm doing everything perfectly and
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consistently throughout the whole process.
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And what's really good about your videos is that you are
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showing exceptional technique. The dishes that you're putting
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up when you put an Instagram rule or something like that, are
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these dishes that you serve in the restaurant.
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I've done a couple where it's like versions like pasta bar
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light dishes. I mean, one of the, one of our
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regulars at the restaurant jokes with me all the time, 'cause I
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just have like a very cheap, like small blender.
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And he's like, you love the small blenders.
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And I mean, that's another thing too, where it's like you get a
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decent size following and people think like, Oh yeah, like why
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don't you have like all this? And it's like all that is like
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money coming out of my pocket. So it's like, right.
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I don't have all the equipment that like a restaurant does.
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So like I just get like small blenders or whatever I can get
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like on my own budget and just make it do so.
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There are some dishes on my social media that are versions
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of the restaurant dishes. But no, definitely the
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restaurant dishes are definitely more intricate and technical and
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you know, a lot more behind it for sure.
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A lot of people will say why don't why don't I do cooking
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content? I was like, well, here's why I
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don't this why I respect what you do.
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It's because when I bought my house that I live in currently,
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I specifically chose it for the kitchen because I thought I
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would go in there and create cooking content.
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There's some things I don't like, like I would like to have
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the stove in a different location, but whatever.
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And I did a couple of videos that no one ever saw and I went
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to the store I'm at the, you know, Central Market or Whole
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Foods. I spent a couple $100 on
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whatever I needed to cook and then I had to set up.
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And then I realized I'm missing this one thing, right?
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I don't have this one, this one spice or this one, whatever,
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right? And then you're you're cooking
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and you're editing and then it's taken me, let's just say 4 hours
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out of my day just just to do that one video.
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Just to shoot it. That's going to last, you know,
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a minute and a half, whatever. And then after that I'm like,
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and then I just turn on the camera and I talk some shit and
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I get the same amount of views. We're just talking.
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So I was like, this is a, this is a lower barrier to for me to
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to get the same amount of short of what I do with chef's PSA
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since it's talking. I was like, yeah, maybe I'll
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just and I and I also recognize that other people do it really
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well. There's there's content creators
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out there like yourself and there's a lot of other people
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that I don't necessarily like what they're cooking, but I also
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think that they got the gimmick down.
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Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, I, I never
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knocked the hustle. You know, there's definitely
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people out there that I've noticed.
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I'm like, oh, they have really good technique.
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Like they're, they're good cooks.
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I think the word chef gets thrown around a little too
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loose. To me, a chef is, is a leader.
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Somebody runs a kitchen and you know, all that kind of stuff.
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So, you know, at the end of the day, like when it comes to stuff
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like that, like more often than not, I still consider myself a
8:41
cook. So I just love to see if people
8:44
can cook and some people on social media do a really good
8:47
job with it. Some people were just creating a
8:49
character and I think I mean cooking and chefs and like all
8:55
that. It's like the hot thing now it's
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it's you know, the chef tables and like all that kind of stuff.
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So I think you see some people that jump on the bandwagon and
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just have a character or stick and they jump and you know, good
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for them. Like again, I don't want to
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knock the hustle, but you know, one of the things that I I get D
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MSA good amount of the times where, you know, people are
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like, how do I learn like you and like how to do this and
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that. And it's you know, there's
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there's people that just blow up like that and like that is good
9:25
for them. And it's like, but for me, it's
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like I've been doing this for a good amount of time and like I
9:30
just happened to decide like, Oh, let me just start making
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videos. So like, you know, when people
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are like, how do I learn how to do this?
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It's like you got to like, if you want to do what I do, like
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you got to eat shit for a long time.
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Like it's, it's really just like diving into the craft and
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falling in love with it. Right.
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Well, I, I think what you do is really interesting because
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there's a, there's a couple of people I think that that I
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admire and I follow because I, I like how they cook and I like
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that they're educating people on certain things.
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You know, Ron McKinley is 1. I think he does a great job.
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He's AG, he's total G+. He has.
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He likes good music too. He does.
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He does. Jules right?
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He also shows great technique and I like those guys 'cause
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it's like, OK, they're showing high level technique 'cause
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they're doing it right. You as well.
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And then there's a lot of people that is like, OK, they know how
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to cook and I'm going to use Air Force.
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They know how to cook, but it's not high level.
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It's not anything that I don't know how to do myself or I'm not
10:30
seeing a new technique that, I mean, every now and again you're
10:33
going to see something like they put a, you know, I don't know,
10:35
they put grilled cheese and instead of doing cheese, they
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use something weird. It's like, OK, I might see
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something like that that I've never seen before, a new
10:43
ingredient or new combination. But I I didn't learn anything.
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Yeah, my level, when I watch you guys, it's like, oh, I didn't
10:49
know that. That's a good little tip.
10:50
Or, you know, you did. I don't remember what you did,
10:53
but you had the zucchini on the plate and I was like, OK, I like
10:56
how you did something on that. I remember what it was like.
10:58
I like that. I like when you were cutting the
11:00
Brunoir fennel and the Brunoir onions.
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And it's like, OK, I like what he's doing here.
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So when I see that, it's like, OK, it has my attention.
11:06
But when I see that other stuff, I'm yeah, I mean, here's a
11:08
little secret. People don't.
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I've blocked a lot of I've like, I've blocked a lot of content
11:13
creators that they don't have any idea that I've blocked them.
11:16
I just, I can't watch their shit.
11:18
Like it's like, I I've had enough.
11:21
I need to see, I don't need to see you make another grilled
11:23
cheese sandwich. Exactly.
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I don't need to hear you scrape the the bread.
11:25
I hate that one. I hate that one.
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I. Don't need to see the cheese
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pool. I get it somewhere.
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I want to see that. It's like I don't need to see
11:31
that shit, but I think I think your stuff is great.
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I think that if people want to learn, I encourage people like,
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hey, if you want to learn how to cook, there's certain chefs that
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you should watch. Like just just following a
11:44
content creator just because they got a million followers,
11:46
whatever is not necessarily going to make you better.
11:48
Those people are great at entertaining.
11:49
Like you said, I can't knock their off great entertainers.
11:52
They know how to ASMR and get the right mic and you know the
11:55
right zoom and all that. I respect that.
11:58
But watch your shit. Watch, watch Ron like bats.
12:02
You're going to learn something new.
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You're going to see something that you haven't seen before.
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Something else that a lot of people don't understand about
12:09
this world that that we're in is that you got a lot of these
12:15
content creators that get picked up by management groups and then
12:19
all of a sudden it's like you don't have enough followers.
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We're going to get you another million.
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Like, you know what I mean? Like a lot, a lot of people
12:24
don't realize like a lot of those followers are not real
12:26
followers. I was talking with the and I'm
12:28
sharing behind the scenes secrets, but I was talking with
12:30
a sponsor for chefs, PSA. And we were, we were talking
12:35
this like we don't have enough, enough people following you to
12:39
what they think a lot of followers are.
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And I was like, well, but all mine are real chefs.
12:43
They're real people. And they're like, well, you
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know, if you had 200,000, I said I can have 200,000 tomorrow if I
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want. Yeah, you understand that.
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Like I could just go and get an app that says give me $1000 and
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I'm going to give you 200,000 followers.
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Like, I could do that, but I'm not going to do that because
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that actually doesn't help me spread the word of what I'm
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trying to do exactly. I don't know that that was just
13:06
a rant going nowhere with it. No, I mean it, it's something
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that, you know, I have a lot of people that, you know, when
13:14
you're doing this full time or, you know, do you, why don't you
13:16
do more videos and all that? But I mean, at the end of the
13:18
day, like I, I'm still an active chef.
13:22
Like I, I run a restaurant and I that is my full time job.
13:26
And you know, this social media stuff is I do it on my day off
13:31
on my weekends. So you know, it, it's choosing
13:34
to take 4 hours out of one of my days off to film it and then
13:39
another several hours to edit it.
13:42
And it's taxing. I mean, and you know, my chef
13:46
job is taxing as well. It's, you know, I'm, I'm trying
13:48
to cook at a high level and, you know, on my weekends I'm pretty
13:51
exhausted. But you know, again, it, it's
13:55
something that's important to me to just like maintain who I am
14:00
and what I'm about and, you know, do it on my own time
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because at the end of the day, like, I still want to cook at a
14:07
high level. And you know, cooking in
14:10
kitchens is still my main focus. And I, and I think that's why I
14:13
would tell people to watch your, your, your videos and follow you
14:17
is because you're really doing it at the same time that you're
14:20
showing people exactly what it is that you're doing.
14:22
Like you want to learn someone that's in the game right now
14:25
performing at a high level and showing you exactly like no
14:29
secrets. Yeah, I, I'd say go, look, go
14:32
look here, right. That's, that's where the, that's
14:34
where the gold is. Don't worry about the cheese
14:36
pool. The cheese pool is going to
14:39
still be there. Don't.
14:39
Worry I'll give it. Sometimes I see some stuff and
14:41
I'm like, that looks delicious, like they're not have learned
14:44
anything, but I'm like, I want to eat that.
14:45
Right, right, right. You know, I agree with you.
14:48
Have you seen Fancy Chef 2000? 13YO he is the man I I love him
14:52
do you I love him. Do you think he's trolling?
14:54
This, I don't know. I think that's why I love him so
14:57
much. There's some videos where I'm
14:58
like, I think this guy's like serious and like, oh, but then
15:01
there's some videos I'm like, Nah, he's got to be fucking with
15:03
us. He's got to be pulling
15:04
everyone's leg. And there's like, I, I just
15:06
don't know. He's like a complete enigma.
15:08
I agree. He I sometimes I see things that
15:10
make me think he's troll enough. Yeah.
15:12
And then I see other things like, no, no, he's not.
15:14
Like there's videos where we like he still has like the the
15:17
tag on like the champagne flutes or whatever.
15:20
And it's like, bro, you know, that's on there like.
15:22
Right. And then he turns it to the
15:23
camera. You see the one where he dropped
15:25
the lemon and it, it missed the glass and like, he's like trying
15:30
to place it in the glass and then he drops in it and then it,
15:32
it, it hits the tail. It's like beautiful and nice.
15:34
I I love the where he went on podcast and he said, like, you
15:39
know, I wanted him to cook sea bass and he's like, Oh, I don't
15:41
cook seafood. And then like after that came
15:44
out, like all of a sudden all you see him cook is sea.
15:47
It's just like there's he's, he's a genius.
15:49
It's like it's it's brilliant content.
15:52
He he's, I was watching one of his things and he's like, I'm
15:55
making shrimp chicken Alfredo, but it was like shrimp Alfredo,
15:59
but he said shrimp, shrimp, chicken Alfredo.
16:01
So he put a video up because, you know, he gives out his one
16:05
call me, blah, blah, blah. He has.
16:07
Only if you're rich. Only if you live in a castle.
16:08
Only castles, right? But he has a a little thing on
16:11
there that I noticed that he put up the other days like $1000.
16:14
Book me to promote your whatever, right?
16:17
So it's like I wonder if people are calling him.
16:18
So a couple days go by, I see him, he's at, I want to say it's
16:21
Gino's in Philly. Yeah, he was.
16:23
Yeah, He was at Philly recently. Yeah, did.
16:26
You see him grab the sandwich and say this is trash.
16:28
Yeah, throw it on the floor. And those toasted.
16:30
Those dudes, being from Philly, like those dudes don't fuck
16:33
around like that was brave. That was, that's what I thought
16:36
I was like, was that a skit? I don't know or.
16:38
What? Or is he just?
16:40
Yeah, I don't know. Like is he trying to flex that
16:43
he's the chef or was that a skit?
16:45
And if it was a skit? It's a brilliant skit.
16:47
It's a brilliant skit. If not like, watch your back.
16:50
That's some balls. Like, like I said, like those
16:52
South Philly boys, like they don't mess around.
16:54
Yeah, who? Who Who had the best Philly when
16:58
you're over? There, Man, I really like a
17:01
place in North Philly called Joe's.
17:04
Angelo's is really good. Del Sandro's is really good.
17:08
I I got, you know, everyone always asks Pats and Gino's.
17:11
It's like they're usually like the touristy ones to go to, you
17:16
know, it's worth, you know, going like they're still fun.
17:19
They're right across the street from each other.
17:21
You can throw a rock and hit the other one.
17:22
So I know a lot of people would be like, oh, we went to Gino's
17:25
and then we went right over to Pat's and it's so it's fun.
17:30
But yeah, I would say those three are like the the top tier
17:32
Delsandros, Angelo's and Joe's. What for you, what's a what's a
17:36
proper sandwich? Proper Philly.
17:38
Proper cheese steak, provolone with, with fried, fried onions.
17:45
That's the, the, the jargon, if you will.
17:49
And then I always get like the pickled cherry Peppers on the
17:52
side, just like snack on. I'm, I'm very simplistic.
17:55
There's a lot of people do ketchup and you know, I don't do
17:58
the Peppers or the mushrooms or all that.
18:00
I'm just very simplistic. Give me the steak and the cheese
18:02
and like, that's it. So I know, I know one of the
18:04
things that we spoke about last time was kitchen culture.
18:07
And everything that I do with chef's PSA in general is trying
18:11
to improve kitchen culture, but not with kid gloves, right?
18:16
And I, and I do think that when we were a lot of people talk
18:21
about talks in kitchens and they asked me, you know, about the
18:23
old days and said the old days weren't all bad.
18:25
And I think, yeah, we we threw the baby out with the bathwater.
18:28
We should have just kept, but we threw the baby too, Like keep
18:31
the baby, right? We just need to get rid of the
18:33
bathwater. There were some things that that
18:35
needed to stay. But I know you're passionate
18:37
about this. If you had like a magic wand and
18:41
you had to, and you're trying to fix kitchen culture across the
18:45
board, what are some things that are missing right now?
18:49
For me, I would say just intensity overall, definitely
18:55
like coming up in kitchens. I just, I was always in like
18:59
high level intensity kitchens where everyone was just heads
19:03
down and like, we have a job to do and we need to do it at the
19:08
best of our abilities and we need to do it as fast as
19:10
possible. You know, it's something you
19:14
posted of Marco pure White where he's just like service to
19:17
service and like the please and the thank you's go out the
19:20
window. Like we have a job to do.
19:22
We have guests coming in that are spending a lot of money
19:26
depending on the restaurant, you know, my current restaurant
19:29
being one of them, you know, and they expect great food, not just
19:32
great food, but like great hospitality, great, you know,
19:35
service, great wine pairings, great cocktails, all the above.
19:40
And I think there's an obligation on our part to, you
19:46
know, be intense about it and be stressed out about it that we're
19:49
going to deliver that we have, we have to be consistent every
19:52
single day. You know, our restaurant is we
19:55
do three services a night. We're at 1010 seat chefs counter
19:58
and so we have 3 seatings and our like we talked about it in
20:03
nausea nauseam. It's we have to be consistent.
20:06
We have to be. As good at the five O clock
20:09
seating on Tuesday as we are at the 930 seating on Saturday.
20:13
And there's no fail in between. So, you know, I think with that
20:18
it's, you know, like you said, we shouldn't have thrown the
20:21
baby out. There definitely needed to be
20:23
some correction in kitchens. You know, in my younger chef
20:28
days, I was 100% guilty of like running toxic kitchens.
20:31
I was like that chef that would scream and yell and curse at
20:34
people and like not even care and not even flinch.
20:38
And, you know, I think as chefs, it's important to like, remember
20:43
we still need to talk to everyone like we're human beings
20:46
and treat each other as such. But I just, I've always loved
20:52
the intensity of kitchens. I've always loved it.
20:54
It's it's something I've always thrived off of.
20:56
At what point? So you said you used to be the
20:58
chef. That was the intense, toxic
21:00
chef. At what point did you realize
21:03
that that is not the way you had to start readjusting to a new
21:05
style, and how did you do that? So when the world changed a bit
21:12
and I was unemployed for several months, I just had a lot of time
21:19
to think. And, you know, I think it was
21:24
one of those things where it wasn't, it didn't excuse it, but
21:28
I always ran kitchens the way the chefs I worked under ran
21:32
kitchens. So I just like did what I
21:34
learned. And just looking back, I was
21:37
like, I hated like the way that like certain chefs would talk to
21:41
me and like that scene, that scene.
21:42
And I always referenced the scene in the Bear when he's like
21:46
at his stove and he's like sleepwalking and he's like
21:48
having the flashback of the chef, like whispering in his
21:51
ear, like all that mean shit. Like that gave me like PTSD
21:55
because it's like, I worked in kitchens where like chefs would
21:58
fucking get, they get personal like, they would get personal
22:02
with me and be like, why are you wasting your time?
22:03
You're wasting my time. You suck at this.
22:05
You're no good. Like, and I turned into that and
22:09
I had time to reflect of like, I hated that.
22:12
But why am I doing that? Why do I think it's OK to do
22:14
that? So, you know, when I got back in
22:17
the kitchens, I think to a degree I overcorrected a bit and
22:23
all of a sudden what, what do you mean?
22:24
What do you think you overcorrected?
22:26
I think I lost a little bit of an edge that, you know, needed
22:32
to be had. I, I think it's important to,
22:35
again, to talk to people like they're human beings, like I
22:39
said, but it's something my sous chef at the current restaurant
22:44
just said recently. He's just like, you're really
22:46
good because you've got like a dial where you can like, turn
22:50
the intensity up and then, you know, when to back off.
22:52
And I think I lost that for a while where I just kind of had
22:56
the dial turned down and it was just like, oh, it's OK.
22:59
And I was allowing things that I usually wouldn't allow.
23:03
And whether it was just, you know, the food wasn't as perfect
23:08
as it should be or, you know, people were just kind of LAX
23:11
throughout the day. People weren't ready for service
23:13
and not set up fully. Just things that I usually
23:18
coming up in kitchens and running kitchens would never
23:20
allow. So you know it, it just took me
23:23
a while to like get to a point where I did have that dial of
23:28
like I can turn it up and then like 2 seconds later I'm turning
23:31
it back down and then rather than still screaming at the
23:35
cook, it's sitting there and calmly talking and be like, OK,
23:38
like this is This is why I said what I said like this is nothing
23:42
personal. We just have to do this in this
23:44
way or in this manner because it's what the job requires.
23:50
It, it's interesting that you said I went through a similar
23:52
phase where, you know, I, I, I realized, OK, there's some
23:57
errors in how I'm running the kitchen.
23:58
I needed to correct it. And it took me about, I mean, I
24:02
started correcting it, but it took me about four years to it
24:05
took a while Like it, it, it didn't just happen overnight.
24:08
It took me several years to start working on, on correcting
24:11
it. Towards the end, when I finally
24:12
feel like, OK, I finally have it.
24:16
And one of the things that that helped me out a lot was I
24:21
learned how to get the exact same thing done speaking calmly
24:25
as I did speaking, you know, with, with the, you know,
24:30
intensity. Yeah, exactly.
24:32
It was like I, I realized that it didn't, I, I, there was a
24:36
certain level of intensity there.
24:38
It was a quiet intensity. It was a, it was a stoic like
24:42
Polly from Goodfellas, just as scary as, as Joe Pesci's
24:47
character, right? Like, you know, 1 was just big
24:49
and intense. The other one was loud and, and
24:51
I was screaming and yelling. So I, I figured out another way
24:54
to make sure that people were doing it without being mean.
24:57
It was like, this is the way it is and that's it.
25:01
Ice cold stare, right? Like they knew I meant business.
25:06
But something happened to me where when I was when I was a
25:13
young chef, when I was an intense chef, I remember
25:16
watching one of my sous chefs really get on one of the cooks.
25:20
And this sous chef in particular was like the nicest person in
25:22
the world. Like I used to like they're too
25:25
nice, right? And then one day I just saw them
25:28
getting on one of the cooks and it made me uncomfortable.
25:30
Like I was like, this is hard for me to watch.
25:33
And I remember thinking, Oh, that's how I am, right?
25:37
Like the light bulb went off is like, they're not naturally like
25:40
that. They're like that because I'm
25:42
like that. And that's when I was like, I
25:44
got to fix this because I was watching, I was like, I don't
25:47
like watching someone treat people that way.
25:50
But it's like, oh, but they're doing it.
25:51
That's because that's how I'm, I was like, shit, I was doing it
25:55
without even realizing I'm doing it.
25:57
Like I just thought that's the way kitchens are.
25:58
You got to be focused, wait and ready.
26:00
Let's go. So it, it took me some time.
26:02
Like I said, it took me time. It didn't.
26:03
It didn't happen overnight, but once I recognized there was a
26:06
problem, it's like, OK, let's let's start correcting it and
26:09
moving it in the right. Direction and it's that it's
26:10
that trickle down effect, like it's the chain of command where
26:13
it's like the chef yells at you when you're the sous chef.
26:16
And it's like, I can't yell at the chef.
26:17
So I'm going to yell at the Junior Sioux.
26:18
I'm going to yell at the chef, the party.
26:20
And then it just trickles down and then all of a sudden the
26:22
chef, the party, he's like yelling at the comedy that way.
26:24
And it's just like, then you just create this toxic culture
26:27
and it's, it's not fun. So how do you, how do you build
26:31
your culture now? Like what are, what are some,
26:33
what are some things that you've implemented now to make sure
26:36
that it doesn't turn into that? So for me, I like to, I worked
26:42
in a restaurant group where we had a lot of sit downs, like
26:45
one-on-one sit downs. We're just checking in on
26:49
people, just like how you doing, how you feeling and letting
26:53
people voice their opinions and voice their concerns.
26:58
I think it's important that we kind of break the stigma of I'm
27:02
the chef, do it and shut the fuck up type thing.
27:06
You know, that like we said, like there's times in service
27:09
where it's like, hey, do this now, like you don't have time to
27:11
talk about it now. We can talk about it after
27:13
service, but I think it's important to like cut out some
27:18
time and like talk to everyone on an individual level.
27:21
How are you doing? You know, this is the reason,
27:24
you know, maybe I spoke to you in this way or you know, I'm I'm
27:28
getting on you for these things. I need to see this out of you,
27:31
but also at the same time, you know, what do you need out of
27:35
me? What do you what do you need out
27:37
of me as a leader, as a mentor, because it's important to let
27:42
everyone have a voice. There's so many times in the
27:45
kitchen where it's there is one voice, but I think there's room
27:49
for creating everyone to have their own.
27:55
I also think I've always kind of worked this way in kitchens.
27:58
I also think it's important to just lead by example and I'm, I
28:03
always kind of get not in trouble, but you know, I've had
28:08
several bosses tell me like, you know, you have a lot of
28:11
opportunity in the admin side of things because I'm just, I'm
28:14
just a cook. Like I just always want to be in
28:16
the kitchen. I always want to be shoulder to
28:17
shoulder with the team and like just like prepping and like, so
28:20
it's always important with me to like be in the kitchen with
28:23
everyone and like head down and like show them like I'm focused
28:29
on the job. So I need you to be focused on
28:31
the job too, and just creating that push in that, you know,
28:34
intensity throughout the day in that way.
28:37
Do you think as people are now coming into the kitchen and it's
28:41
it's I don't want to say it's a different generation.
28:43
I don't mean that's bad or good, but it is a different generation
28:45
where before people were coming into the kitchen is like, they
28:48
wanted to be chefs and this is what I want to do and I want
28:51
your job where now it's different than not everyone, but
28:54
a lot of people come into the kitchen and they might say, I'm
28:57
just here to learn how to cook. So I could then go into
28:59
something else where maybe I could write about food or I
29:02
could create a social channel or yeah, I want to, I want to start
29:05
my TikTok, but I need to learn how to cook in order to do that
29:07
for sure. So they're, they're not
29:08
necessarily in it for the same reasons that people were in at
29:11
10-15 years ago. So have you come across that
29:15
number one? And then when you get people
29:18
like that, that work for you, if someone's coming to you and
29:22
interviewing and say, Hey, I, I'm just here to learn, but I
29:24
really want to be the next, you know, Gordon Ramsay MasterChef
29:28
contestant. Is that a deterrent for you to
29:30
hire? Them.
29:30
It depends on the restaurant for me.
29:33
I think at the restaurant I'm currently at now, we have such a
29:37
small team that you know it. It's one of those things where I
29:41
get to kind of be very NIT picky on who I bring onto the team.
29:45
But more often than not, no, it's one of those things where
29:50
it's like, I just want your best every single day.
29:53
And I always tell people like your best is going to be
29:55
different every day. You know, we're human beings.
29:58
Things happen on the outside of these four walls of a
30:01
restaurant. So all I ask is you give me your
30:06
best every single day. If you come in and you're trying
30:09
your hardest and you're working like to the mat, if you're
30:13
squeezing all the juice out of it every single day and you
30:16
don't feel like you could have done anything more like who am I
30:20
to like not give you that opportunity?
30:21
I didn't go to culinary school. I was that kid who sent my
30:25
resume off to every single restaurant in every single city
30:28
I moved to. I remember I, one of my first
30:31
like really intense cooking jobs, I sent my resume to the
30:36
chef de cuisine every day for like 2 weeks until he was fine.
30:40
Like holy shit. Like you can come and stage,
30:42
like stop emailing me. And I was an idiot.
30:47
Like I didn't know what I was doing, but I tried to work
30:51
harder than everyone in the kitchen.
30:52
Yeah, everyone in the kitchen. And I always had the mentality
30:54
every day I was like, I'm going to get fired today.
30:55
Like I suck. Like I'm going to get fired.
30:57
And I'm not saying everyone should think that way.
30:59
That's how I think. But I just asked people to give
31:03
me their best. And if you're at the end of the
31:05
day, like I've turned to people, I'm like, if you want to be, you
31:08
know, a car salesman down the road, who am I to stop?
31:12
But like, while you're here with me, I need you to be your best.
31:15
I need you to give everything every single day.
31:18
One of the things that you said is you talk about you're in a
31:20
smaller kitchen right now. How many people are are working
31:22
with you in the kitchen? In the kitchen 12346 and one of
31:29
them is an AM. Person SO55 for dinner, one
31:33
person in the morning. So because it's a smaller
31:35
kitchen and this is something that I think a lot of cooks
31:38
don't understand, is everything is valuable real estate if you
31:40
only have 6 people on your team plus you, or is that including
31:43
you? That's I'm I'm the 6th.
31:47
Just five plus you valuable real estate and everyone has to be
31:51
good and one of the the challenges I I I think people
31:57
maybe they're graduating from culinary school or they're a
31:59
green cook and they want to jump into your kitchen.
32:02
It's probably not the right kitchen for start up because
32:05
everyone needs I only have this one position.
32:08
Yeah I need I need a gangster. Yeah right.
32:10
And if you're not there yet, go maybe Joel, there's there's
32:13
great restaurants that are a little bit bigger that could
32:15
absorb some of the, I don't want to say unskilled, but.
32:19
You need to get the you need to get the feel for it right, Like
32:21
you need to like I used to work with a guy we used used to be
32:24
like before service. We'd like fist bomb, be like,
32:27
let's dance. And you need to get that like
32:29
ballet choreographed, like footwork down with it.
32:33
It's important. It's so funny like this one of
32:35
my pet peeves. I'll go on a on a rant, but when
32:37
you work with someone like me as a chef, it's different when
32:41
you're cooking with the chef and you're the sous chef, cooking
32:43
with the chef versus you're the chef and you're cooking with the
32:45
sous chef. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
32:46
So me, I'm the chef. Everything's coming to the pass
32:48
spoon. Great.
32:50
I hand it back. Sous chefs put in the in the in
32:53
the Bain Marie, you know, like where's my plate wipe?
32:57
Boom, it's right there, right. Garnishing what I'm thinking
33:00
about, right. Yeah, You have this cadence that
33:02
you could work with someone that sous chef and if you're the sous
33:05
chef, maybe you're just handing chef.
33:07
Here's your next step to the plate, right.
33:09
If you're the chef, it's where's my spoon?
33:11
Where is it? And when you work with someone
33:14
that doesn't have that flow with you and you're like, what?
33:18
Why? Why you giving me the deli with
33:19
the lid on it? Yeah, take the lid off.
33:21
Take the lid off before you hand it to me because I, I don't have
33:23
time to do that. Yeah, right.
33:26
My other hand has this. I need you to do that.
33:28
But it's funny because I, I remember I talked about that one
33:30
time I was like someone, what's your biggest pet peeve?
33:32
I said when some, when I'm plating and someone has me a
33:35
deli with a lid on it, that's my biggest pet peeve.
33:37
I hate that. And people didn't understand
33:39
why. And it's like, if you don't
33:40
understand why, it's because you haven't been at that level in
33:43
that situation. But if you've been at that level
33:45
in that situation, you'll understand why.
33:47
There's nothing more frustrating than you're in complete focus on
33:52
the plate right in front of you and every movement has a
33:55
purpose. And then you have to.
33:57
It's this pattern disruption. It's, it's such a pattern
33:59
disruption and it needs to be so synchronized.
34:03
Yes, because I mean, that's why you see a lot of restaurants
34:07
with like those blue signs and like you saw it in the Bear
34:09
where it's like every second counts or like sense of urgency
34:12
or like all that. Because it's so true.
34:15
And especially when you're cooking at a high level, like
34:18
more often than not, like you're putting a protein on a plate and
34:21
by the time it gets to the gas, like it can be cold, right?
34:24
And so it's like, I need it now and I need that sauce to be hot,
34:27
but it's also like I need it in the order that I asked for it.
34:30
And I don't have time to take a deli, a lid off a deli.
34:33
I don't have time to unwrap something.
34:35
That means you're not ready for service, in my opinion.
34:37
And so it's it's just that absolute synchronization and it
34:42
takes time. It takes time.
34:44
Right, so it's like if you're going and, and for people that
34:47
are listening, this is something that you could do.
34:48
And I'm just making up a dish, but it let's just say it's sauce
34:52
and then herbs and then maybe a little drizzle of olive oil and
34:55
then fluid to sell or whatever. And so it's like, OK, my next
34:59
step is sauce. The sous chef.
35:01
Here's your sauce, take it back. Here's your your herb garnet.
35:05
Like it's already on a tray, right?
35:07
With a little, here's that. Then you take it back.
35:09
Here's your olive oil, right? If you're OK, take it back,
35:12
here's your fluid to sell. So it's like I'm just, they know
35:15
exactly what order I'm putting the steps on, on the exactly,
35:18
exactly. That's a that's such a key skill
35:21
that I think people don't understand.
35:22
No 100% and it it's important to like not even just with that one
35:27
plate. It's something like I always say
35:30
too, it's like you're done playing.
35:31
It's like clear the past by the past.
35:32
Let's go next plates. And it's it's it's non-stop.
35:35
It's why it's like cooking in general is exhausting because
35:40
you're just doing the same thing over and over and over again and
35:43
you're trying to be consistent about it.
35:46
And yeah, it, it, it's, it just takes time and it, it takes time
35:50
to get that feel down in kitchens.
35:52
But then like you're saying to specifically like, like I just
35:56
recently hired my sea chef. It's, he's still learning how I
35:59
like things. And I'm sitting there being
36:01
like, chef, I need you to do this and no other way, OK.
36:07
And he's like, he's very receptive.
36:08
He's really, really talented. But it's just, it takes some
36:11
time to know what I like and how I like things done and in the
36:15
order I like them done. So now it's it's a meat grinder
36:19
for sure. It's it's funny, there's there's
36:21
those those signals like you've worked with someone for a long
36:24
time. They passed you the tray of
36:26
meat. It's cold.
36:27
Yeah. You only have to say you just
36:28
just. And they.
36:30
Yeah, Chef. Yeah, right.
36:32
They don't even. You didn't even say it was cool.
36:34
Chef. And they look back and they're
36:35
just like this, and they're like Gisha.
36:36
Yeah, right. And it's done like let me reheat
36:38
the meat or, or whatever. Yeah, it's, it's, it's something
36:42
beautiful. I think when a chef and I, I've
36:45
had a, a few sous chefs that I've worked with that, you know,
36:47
I, I love working with them because they know exactly what
36:52
I'm good at and they know they also know what I'm not good at.
36:54
Like they know I have a bad back.
36:55
I can't bend down and pick up. So they're like, chef, your next
36:58
two plates here you go, right. So they know I'm not going to do
37:01
that. There's like shout out to all
37:03
the sous chefs out there. That it's this shit, it's job in
37:06
the kitchen. I always tell people that
37:08
because you are at the beck and call of the chef and once you
37:12
figure out like the the likes and the dislikes, like you're
37:17
there to like fill in any gap for them.
37:19
But then you're also overseeing the entirety of the kitchen.
37:23
So like when you, the chef comes in the kitchen and the sous chef
37:26
might be over there and the chef was like seeing meats and pasta.
37:29
That's wrong. All of a sudden you're getting
37:31
your head ripped off because you're not paying attention to
37:33
everyone in the kitchen. Then you're getting orders.
37:35
Sous chefs. Shout out to all the sous chefs.
37:36
Shout out to this. It's, it's a, it's a, it's a
37:39
tough job and there's good sous chefs out there that the best
37:43
sous chefs make their chef look good. 100%.
37:47
Like those are the those 100% chefs and you go up to them.
37:50
It's like people would ask me like, how do I deal with it when
37:53
my, my chef comes up to me as like, if your chef comes up to
37:56
you, let's just say you have some Mesoplas and it's like, OK,
37:58
you have radishes and chives and you have some herbs and
38:00
whatever. And it's like you come up and
38:03
it's like, I know the radishes are wrong.
38:05
And if I go up to you and say, Hey, the radishes are wrong and
38:07
you're like, you got all these excuses.
38:09
Well, then guess what? Your chives are wrong now and
38:11
your herbs are wrong. And I'm going to keep going down
38:13
the line because you have it. But if the answer is chef, let
38:16
me correct that right away. I'm I'm going to leave you
38:19
alone. You got it, chef.
38:21
Chef, I apologize. I know they're wrong.
38:23
I'm fixing them right now. Great.
38:24
I'm going to leave you alone, but no chef.
38:26
You know, the last guy that came in, he didn't leave me set up
38:28
and I never cut and, and no, no, now it's all now it's every.
38:32
Now it's everything and he even like if it's like chef, I'm
38:36
going to fix this. Even if there's like some tries
38:38
that it's like rather than like do this again, it's like, hey,
38:40
chef, like some of these aren't just be better next time.
38:43
Like let's let's tighten this up rather than.
38:45
But like, yeah, once it's all the excuses, it's like, cool,
38:49
now you're just doing everything again.
38:50
Is I I just don't want to hear it.
38:51
I don't want to hear it. Yeah.
38:52
You'll, you'll learn like real quick, yeah, real quick, yeah.
38:56
So a lot of people when they're building their culture,
38:59
especially now nowadays in the kitchen, which I think is one of
39:02
the the positive aspects. When we talk about the, the new,
39:04
like people say the new way of running kitchens, one of the big
39:07
positive aspects that I think was missing in the old way of
39:10
running kitchen is health and Wellness.
39:13
How do you approach mental health, health and Wellness not
39:18
only in your day-to-day but also for your team?
39:21
So in my day-to-day, I mean, it's important for me.
39:25
I'm I, I'm pretty vocal about it in my kitchen just because I
39:31
want everyone to know my strollers and what I go through
39:34
with. I deal with depression and
39:35
anxiety at a pretty high level. And there's days where it like
39:41
it, it gets me and eats me alive.
39:43
And you know that it's a tough industry and, you know, failures
39:49
and, you know, missteps and mistakes can lead down a dark
39:54
path. And also the intensity of
39:56
kitchens and like not working in the right cultures or just
40:00
working for a chef that's really intense.
40:01
But doesn't like toe the line of like, I'm still going to like
40:05
care about you and like talk to you.
40:08
I've had a lot of friends that like I've had very serious
40:10
conversations with me of like hurting, harming themselves and.
40:15
You know, it it, it's very important to remember that we're
40:19
all human beings that, you know, everyone's different and
40:22
everyone has different struggles.
40:23
So for me, I think the biggest one that I started with is I
40:29
stopped drinking about 3 years ago now.
40:31
Congratulations. Thank you.
40:33
You know, and for me it wasn't so much I had a substance abuse
40:36
abuse issue. I mean, maybe I did, I was
40:40
typical like in my 20s like work your ass off and then like
40:45
shifts over the weekend and then you just get black out drunk and
40:49
like your weekend is just drinking.
40:52
But for me, just knowing that I deal with mental health issues,
40:55
drinking was like the easiest one to be like just cut that out
40:58
and like not have that thing that adds on to it.
41:03
But then also staying physically active and just trying to keep
41:07
the body moving. You know, when I first moved
41:10
here two years ago, shout out Phillip Speer with the Commodore
41:13
Run Club. And you know, everything that
41:15
like he's done and a lot of restaurants have done that too.
41:18
I remember when, you know, I was still living on the East Coast
41:20
and heard about him where it's like shift, the post shift I
41:23
think was what he said. And it's like, hey, rather than
41:26
like going out to the bar, like what's going to run?
41:28
Let's do something healthy for our mental, because the
41:34
kitchen's hard enough. On it and and he's taking that
41:37
outside of Austin too. I mean, oh, 100% he was in
41:39
Houston, the other he was in Houston and he's he's done it in
41:42
New York and Portland. So, you know, I think I've
41:48
always looked at the kitchen and cooking as a sport.
41:51
I played sports when I was younger and I think it's
41:56
important to condition your mind and your body to it.
42:00
One, it's easy that your body to break down like that, but to get
42:04
your mind in a good spot so that you don't go down those rabbit
42:10
holes. I personally, I go to therapy
42:13
and it helps me just to talk to someone.
42:14
And I'm a very self deprecating person by nature.
42:19
You know, when failures come across my across my plate, no
42:24
pun intended. You know, it's easy for me to
42:28
look at myself in a way as like you suck and like, how could you
42:31
not like do that for the right way or anything like that when I
42:35
just need to have the grace and, you know, talking to the
42:38
professionals, like give yourself some grace.
42:40
Like you have a high, intense, stressful job and you're human.
42:46
You're going to make mistakes. And you know, rather than being
42:50
like you idiot, like identify what happened and what went
42:54
wrong or how you could be better and use that to like propel you
42:57
in the next step. Do you do anything for yourself,
43:01
like whether it's your own internal monologue or anything
43:03
like that, when you have a bad day like and and you and you
43:07
catch yourself going into a dark places or something that you do
43:10
for yourself to prevent it from getting worse.
43:14
Going on a run helps a lot, like just getting my mind, like my
43:20
mind's constantly racing. It's just always like
43:23
overthinking and doing all that. So when I go on runs it tends to
43:26
like just stop it. I want I want to ask.
43:28
Why? Because I, I, it seems that I, I
43:31
know a lot of people that will say the exact.
43:32
I'm not a runner like, but it's like the runner.
43:35
'S high. You just yeah, exactly.
43:36
You zone out for me. I don't, you know, I don't know
43:39
how everyone else feels, but for me personally, it's like I felt
43:44
I fell in love with running because I fucking hated it.
43:47
I was like, I hate it. And it, it was one of those
43:49
things where it was like, I love to hate it.
43:52
And you do you get that runner's high where like at the beginning
43:55
of the run, you might be thinking like, I can't wait till
43:57
this is over. And then for me, it's like, so I
43:58
can start thinking about like work again or whatever.
44:02
And then you just get to a point especially like I listen to
44:05
music when I run, but there's times where I don't because then
44:08
it's just like you just think about the run and it's just like
44:11
the very simplistic mindset of like 1 foot in front of the
44:15
other and just like go from there.
44:18
And I try and take that like mindset of, you know, when
44:24
things come across like in a bad way and it's just like just one
44:28
foot in front of the other, like, you know, something bad
44:31
happened, cool, what's the next step?
44:33
Don't think about, you know, 5 steps back or like what's 10
44:38
steps ahead? Just like, all right, well,
44:40
what's the next step? What's the step to correct it?
44:42
So you you mentioned that you stopped drinking, you go to
44:45
therapy and you run. Have you noticed a significant
44:48
improvement in your ability to leave the kitchen and be a chef
44:53
since you've implemented that? For sure, for sure.
44:57
It helps me think clear it, you know, it.
45:02
It gets rid of the fogginess and the haze and the, you know,
45:07
especially the drinking, you know, the, the hangovers and
45:10
like all that kind of stuff. But the running for sure.
45:15
If I, you know, I've been as consistent as I would have liked
45:19
to be as of late. But you know, if I start my day
45:21
off with a run, it's it's one of those things where it's like
45:24
start your day off of something difficult and then everything
45:26
else is just going to be. Easy.
45:27
Yeah, that makes sense. Do you do you do any?
45:29
Do you have anything else in your routine that you do to to
45:32
to make sure that you are in order?
45:38
Again, I haven't been like as consistent as I would like to
45:42
be, but I worked for a restaurant group where, you
45:45
know, there was a huge emphasis on like Google Calendars and it
45:50
was like just playing your entire day out like a prep list.
45:55
And you know, they're like talking about it's like when
45:57
you're a cook, like you have your prep list written out and
46:00
you have everything as a, as a cook, I would always be like, I
46:03
would write times on my like prep Yep, tasks and be like, all
46:07
right, I'm starting this at noon.
46:08
It needs to be done by 12:30 and this and this and this.
46:11
And they're like, you need to do that same mentality with like
46:14
your entire life. So it's like, what time you
46:16
waking up? What time are you, you know,
46:18
drinking a cup of coffee You like, if I like breakdown my
46:23
day-to-day like that, it just takes away the like uncertainty
46:28
I have at times or like the anxiety of like all I'm not
46:32
doing this right now. I should be doing this when I
46:34
have something written down and concrete.
46:37
It's like cool, now I have to do this.
46:39
Once I'm done that, I go into this and then just go from
46:42
there. You know, I'll ask you this,
46:46
Arguably one of the best restaurants in Austin is where
46:48
you're at. Pasta Bar.
46:49
I appreciate. That.
46:50
And on top of that, you personally have put a lot of
46:57
pressure on yourself to be great.
46:59
You've worked in great kitchens, you've worked under great chefs.
47:01
And you're, you're what you're doing right now currently is
47:05
pursuing the path of greatness, right?
47:07
The the path of greater resistance.
47:10
Knowing that you've put so much pressure on yourself, How do you
47:15
personally deal with it? Knowing that you're you're
47:17
trying to balance these two things are making sure that you
47:21
are focusing on your own mental health and well-being, but
47:25
you're also pursuing greatness. How do you balance that and how
47:31
hard is it to balance it? It's hard.
47:32
It's the hardest thing, it's. Hard it's it's really hard
47:35
because I have days where it's just like, you know, you
47:42
question it at times. I, I, I, I firmly believe if you
47:46
don't question like yourself every now and then, you're not
47:51
trying hard enough or you're not, you know, striving hard
47:54
enough. And, you know, maybe that's just
47:55
my mentality. And, you know, I'm not saying
47:57
that's one-size-fits-all type thing, but I'm a firm believer
48:02
of getting outside your comfort zone and you grow exponentially
48:07
because of that. And I think that goes with, you
48:11
know, my mental health as well. It's, it's helped me to really
48:17
learn my cues on, you know, when my anxiety is ramping up.
48:22
And then when my, I know when my anxiety goes up, you know, I
48:25
tend to procrastinate things. And then when I procrastinate
48:29
things, I get depressed because I didn't do the thing.
48:31
So it's, it's taught me to like learn all the cues.
48:35
And yeah, I think a big one for me is like, I tend to doom
48:39
scroll when I like my anxiety gets up.
48:41
I get on social media and I'm just like sitting around my
48:43
phone and I'm just like looking at nothing.
48:47
So like I, I've caught that and it's like, I've gotten to a
48:50
point where like I set limitations on my phone of like
48:52
I'm only allowed X amount of minutes on like social media per
48:55
day. I between the hours of 3:00 PM
48:59
and midnight when like we're getting ready for service and
49:02
when service is over, like my phone's locked except for my
49:06
text messages, emails and phone. So you know, it, it's, it's
49:11
hard. It's definitely hard to balance,
49:13
but it's, again, got me outside of my comfort zone of, you know,
49:19
still striving to be the best. Like, yeah.
49:23
And at the same time, like managing that with my mental
49:26
health, but finding the cues that help me get stronger on
49:31
that side of things. So $1,000,000 question and I
49:36
would ask you this because this is what people ask me all the
49:38
time. Is it worth it?
49:42
For me, yes, for me, yes, but that's a great question because
49:47
anytime someone asked me or tells me like, hey, I want to be
49:52
a chef, I want to cook, one of the first things I always say to
49:56
him is like, you need to think about it.
49:59
You need to really make sure you love this like you love this
50:05
because I, I mean, my story isn't different than anyone that
50:10
I've worked with Like I, I know plenty of people that have, but
50:13
like, I travelled all over the country.
50:15
I slept on floors, I slept on couches, like of like friends
50:20
house, not even like my own house.
50:21
Like I was technically like homeless.
50:24
You know, I lost friends along the way.
50:26
I missed, you know, family function celebrations, like all
50:30
that thing. And in order to like perfect my
50:34
craft because I love it. Like I firmly believe I've been
50:40
put on this earth to cook food and cook it at a high level.
50:44
So for me, yes, it's worth it. But I always add, I always tell
50:47
everyone that tells me they want to be a chef.
50:49
Like you need to do some soul searching and make sure this is
50:52
what you love. Do you ever experience burnout
50:57
in the kitchen? 100%, yeah, 100%.
51:00
Like burnout from like, I don't want to do this anymore. 100%,
51:03
yeah, yeah. You know, I, I've definitely had
51:08
those moments of like, I don't want to do this anymore.
51:12
And then I kind of like have internal conversations with
51:15
myself. It's like, all right, what else
51:16
would you do, You know, down the road, you know, I, I think I'm
51:23
doing things right now to like set myself up for like years
51:27
down the road to like pivot, but right here, right now, like
51:32
there's nothing else I would want to do.
51:35
For me, the burnout is just like I need a break or I need to
51:39
change something or, you know, or maybe I was needing a new job
51:44
And you know, I, I've, I've definitely had jobs where it's
51:47
just like, I'm just burnout and I need to go.
51:49
And it's something, it's a conversation I had with a cook
51:52
not too long ago where, you know, I would just watch them
51:55
every single day. And it was just like, man, this
51:58
looks like it's a chore for you. Like this looks like it's like
52:01
legitimate work for you. And I had a sit down
52:04
conversation with him and it's like you're not running the
52:06
station. The station is running you like
52:09
it is running you into the ground.
52:11
And I was like, you know, I've been there before as a cook, as
52:13
a chef, as a sous chef. And you know, for me, that was
52:16
always kind of like a signal that like, maybe it's time to
52:20
move on. So I think sometimes it's just a
52:23
shake up and it's a new job. Sometimes it's just you need to
52:26
take a break, Do you? Find when you're in that flow
52:31
state in the kitchen, you're creative, you're working with a
52:35
good team, you could work all the hours in the world but not
52:37
get burned out. But then you flip that script
52:39
and it's like you're around people you don't like, you don't
52:41
like the chef, you're not making the food that you enjoy making
52:43
burnout after five hours, right? So there's a certain joy aspect
52:48
to that also leads to burnout 100%.
52:50
And I think that's something that people don't talk about
52:52
enough is like, first question is, I would ask people is like
52:55
when they say I'm burned out. My question is, do you like your
52:59
job? Yeah, let's start there.
53:01
Let's start there. Do you like your job?
53:02
No. Well, then that.
53:03
Yeah, and it's, you know it. It's the perfect example.
53:06
It's the job I'm currently at at Pasta bar.
53:08
Like every time a candidate comes in, my very first thing
53:12
that I'm is like, I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
53:15
I was like, these are long days and late nights.
53:17
Like we are here till like 1:30 in the morning sometimes.
53:20
And I just want to let you know that because sometimes that is a
53:24
deal breaker for people. And so I think if you are in the
53:28
right situation, like the hours and like all that don't bother
53:32
you because, you know, sure, like on my weekends, like I'm
53:35
exhausted and my wife's like, I'm gonna let you sleep because
53:38
you're a little tired. But like, I just love what I'm
53:40
doing, you know? What's interesting, I've
53:42
experienced this in my personal career and I'm curious if anyone
53:48
else has. But I've definitely noticed it
53:51
and in patterns of my career, when you're pushing for
53:54
greatness and you're getting close to it, the burnout hasn't
53:59
happened yet. When you achieve that goal,
54:03
whether it's an award, star, whatever, when you get there and
54:07
you're on this high, the burnout typically happens.
54:09
After that, 100% it. Doesn't happen on this climb up.
54:12
It happens when you hit the goal and then you're just passed it.
54:15
And then a lot of times it's like now I achieve what I want
54:17
it. Now I'm starting to feel that
54:19
burnout. Yeah, for sure.
54:20
And you know, it's a conversation, you know, I've had
54:23
to have with myself. My direct supervisors, direct
54:27
boss on the corporate chef is had with me.
54:30
You know, as a young chef, I definitely was like, I want to
54:34
cook for awards and Michelin stars and James Beard awards and
54:37
like, you know, rising * chefs and like all that kind of stuff.
54:40
But you know, I've, I've, I've missed out only all the awards.
54:45
I've missed out on the star chef, rising star.
54:48
I missed out on a Michelin star. I've missed out on things.
54:52
So it's, it's realizing that we're not in the business of
54:58
awards and accolades. We're in the business of making
55:00
people happy and I think that also is internal.
55:04
It's like, you know, I'm pushing myself to be the best I can be
55:07
every single day, but I'm also pushing to make this restaurant
55:10
the best it possibly can be. And that means busy restaurant
55:14
with happy guests every single time.
55:16
So I think it's important to fall in love with the process
55:21
rather than the end goal because like you said, like if your end
55:24
goal is like, I want a Michelin star and then you win a Michelin
55:26
star, what's next? And then all of a sudden that
55:29
burnout hits and you see it with the best chefs in the world that
55:32
are on top through so long with three stars.
55:34
And they're like, all right, I'm, I'm good.
55:36
We were talking, I was talking about that literally yesterday
55:38
with another chef about how a lot of chefs get the award,
55:42
whatever it is that a three stars, James Greer, whatever.
55:45
And it's like they leave their restaurant shortly after.
55:49
I'd be curious to like, track that exactly how many times?
55:52
That's half. How it's half how many times?
55:54
Yeah, so let's move on to something a little bit lighter,
55:56
chef. Alright, cool.
55:58
Let's talk hip hop. You're a big hip hop fan.
55:59
Big time. So for people that I'm going to
56:01
I'm going to do my best Nori Drink Champs impersonation.
56:05
I I love I love watching drink Champs where he's asking all
56:08
these hip hop legends like this one or that one.
56:10
So yeah, yeah, you're familiar with very familiar.
56:12
I love, I love that. So we could drink water, but
56:16
your hip hop head. I'm a hip hop head.
56:18
I'm going to give you the standard Nori questions.
56:21
Tupac or DMX Park Park Which album?
56:27
Maybe Machiavelli? Yeah, OK.
56:30
Wu Tang or N.W.A? Wu Tang.
56:33
Easy. OK, so let's get into the Wu
56:34
Tang Ghostface or Raekwon. Raekwon because.
56:39
He's a chef. Yeah, right.
56:42
Kanye or Pharrell. Oh.
56:48
This is no bearing on who how I feel about him as a person, but
56:52
yeah. Yeah, OK.
56:54
Scarface or Ice Cube Face? Scarface doesn't get enough
56:57
credit. No, he's great.
56:59
No, he's amazing. He he's, he's definitely mount.
57:02
Rushmore, especially for. Texas.
57:04
Texas, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:06
He's God's here. Jay-Z or Nas?
57:10
Nas OK, Greatest rapper of all time.
57:14
Nausea Nausea. In my opinion, Illmatic is the
57:16
Best Hip Hop album. In my opinion, yeah.
57:19
See, for me, New York State of Mind is the greatest hip hop
57:22
song I ever wrote. Yeah, I, I, I when I think about
57:25
that, it's like a kid was he was like 1615 when he wrote it
57:28
without Google, without ChatGPT. Without any of.
57:30
It just a dictionary what he knew.
57:32
Yeah, it's like man, it's. And lyrically, it's still a
57:34
great. Song I think memory Lane is
57:36
probably my favorite off of that album.
57:38
I just I just love the story he tells.
57:40
It's like, and like why he does it And it's just he was, I mean,
57:45
I mean, he still is like he's, he's amazing because I think he
57:48
had a few albums in the middle where like, and then like with
57:52
all the King's Disease albums, it's like, man, you are just
57:55
like coming back. The King's Disease and the Magic
57:57
albums. Yeah.
57:59
Those last six albums that he put out, I was unbelievable.
58:02
It was like, he's back. Unbelievable.
58:04
Kendrick or Drake? Kendrick.
58:05
Easy. Easy.
58:07
Yeah, that was that was an easy. That was an easy one.
58:09
Easy. Mobb deeper the locks.
58:11
Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one.
58:17
Damn man, I probably have to go locks.
58:22
That's that's a tough one though.
58:24
That's a tough one. Chef, this was fun.
58:25
If you had one chef's PSA out there for the audience
58:28
listening, what would it be? For me, I have a quote that I
58:33
really like. It's, you know, you are the
58:35
standard that you walk past and it's something.
58:38
That, that was heavy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
58:40
I mean, the whole meaning behind it was a very heavy reason for
58:43
the quote. But I think it's one of those
58:45
quotes that kind of like permeates through through life.
58:48
And, you know, I think it's important that, you know,
58:51
whether it comes to like what we're talking about kitchen
58:54
culture and the way we talk to people and all that.
58:57
But it's something I always, I was told this is a cook and it's
59:00
something I tell cooks, sous chefs and all that I work with
59:03
now. It's like start treating it like
59:05
it's your restaurant. I'm not saying go above and
59:08
beyond of what your pay grade is or whatever.
59:11
Like, you know, I'm not telling you to do my job, but like start
59:15
treating it like it's your own. Start these habits.
59:16
Now, would you do that if it was your restaurant, if it was your
59:19
name on the building? Because when it is yours, you've
59:22
already instilled the habits and like all the things and you're
59:25
just going to like see something and be like, it's OK.
59:29
So, you know, you, you got to set the standards early.
59:34
I have a quote. I put this up on Chef's PSA.
59:36
Run it like you own it makes a lot more sense when you own it.
59:39
Yeah, right. Like when when, when you're in
59:41
that position, you actually own it.
59:42
It that that quote. Well, OK, it hits.
59:45
It's. It's different.
59:46
It's different. When you actually own it.
59:47
So Chef, where can people find you?
59:50
They can find me on Instagram at Cosinero under Score DK and then
59:56
you can find me at Pasta Bar Tuesday through Saturday.
59:59
Chef's good having you here. It was a pleasure being here.
1:00:01
Thank you, had a lot of fun. Well, I hope you enjoyed the
1:00:04
show as much as I did. Great conversation with Dan
1:00:06
Kennedy. If you want a sports show, make
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Stop what you're doing. Leave five stars. 5 star
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