Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Digital Health + Health IT / Leading Michigan Medicine's IT Transformation: A Conversation with CTO Tim Callahan

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Leading Michigan Medicine's IT Transformation: A Conversation with CTO Tim Callahan · Becker’s Healthcare Digital Health + Health IT

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  Becker's Healthcare podcast made for the people who
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  power US Healthcare. I am Molly Gamble with
• 1:37
  Becker's, and today delighted to spend time with
• 1:39
  Tim Callahan.
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  Tim is the chief technology officer for University
• 1:43
  of Michigan Medicine or Michigan Medicine.
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  Tim, welcome to the podcast. How are you
• 1:48
  and where do we find you today?
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  I'm doing absolutely great, and I'm working from
• 1:53
  my home office today.
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  Terrific.
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  Well, Tim, for listeners who might not be
• 1:58
  as familiar with Michigan Medicine as they otherwise
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  could be, could you provide a brief overview
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  just to help us get reacquainted with the
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  organization?
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  Yeah. So Michigan Medicine is really the the
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  health care provider
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  arm
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  and,
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  medical school to the University of Michigan. So
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  most are very familiar with the University of
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  Michigan, certainly with our national champion football team
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  of last year,
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  and we're looking forward to repeating that again
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  this year.
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  But, again, Michigan Medicine is really the health
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  care providers of the hospital system associated
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  with the health care system,
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  as well as as well as the medical
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  school.
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  We also have affiliates
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  on the western side of the state and
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  also
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  in the central western part of the state.
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  So the reach expands quite a bit beyond
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  Ann Arbor and is,
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  continuing to expand
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  statewide
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  as we look out into our future.
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  Right.
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  And then over the past quarter, Tim, where
• 3:01
  have you been focusing most of your your
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  time and energy
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  within Michigan Medicine
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  as chief technology officer? What's been really core?
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  Yeah. So I'm about 2 years into the
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  role, and I accepted the role because Michigan
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  Medicine
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  had a very strong desire to modernize their
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  infrastructure. And really what that meant to them
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  was they wanna move a lot of their
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  workloads to the cloud. So we've been spending
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  a lot of time issuing RFPs
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  and getting ready for that cloud migration.
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  We're moving Epic to the cloud. We're moving
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  sector to the cloud. We're moving all of
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  our general purpose workloads to the cloud. So,
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  but because we're a public institution, because we're
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  part of, the University of Michigan,
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  we need to issue a whole bunch of
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  RFPs, and we need to get ready for
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  that migration.
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  In the midst of all of that,
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  there was also an acquisition with Sparrow Health.
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  So we've also been deeply,
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  engaged
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  in integration
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  and consolidation,
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  collaboration with,
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  with affiliates. So I mentioned that we have
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  UMH West and and, Sparrow.
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  So we are working with them to understand
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  how our cloud strategy could impact them,
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  as well as what can we do together.
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  How do we share common best practices?
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  How do we,
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  look at the applications that we have within
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  the broader ecosystem,
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  and how do we achieve synergies between those
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  3 different organizations?
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  Mhmm.
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  And that work of migrating workflows to the
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  cloud,
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  what's the most taxing
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  aspect of that work for for you as
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  the leader of those efforts? You mentioned a
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  lot of RFPs.
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  Michigan Medicine is a public institution like you
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  said. Is there something that you didn't hint
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  at, Tim, that has been especially demanding on
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  your time or your team?
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  Well, I think, with with all IT projects,
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  probably
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  the preparation,
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  is super important
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  in that journey. There's preparation work, there's foundational
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  work,
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  that needs to be done that's really behind
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  the scenes,
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  that doesn't get, seen a lot throughout the
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  organization. So they're kinda wondering, hey. What are
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  you doing?
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  But those foundational pieces are really critically important.
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  The other aspect that's really critically important in
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  a health care
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  migration to the cloud or a health organization
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  moving to the cloud is this aspect of
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  business disruption.
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  So when you move a workload from an
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  on prem
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  environment
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  to a cloud location, you wanna do that
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  very, very seamlessly.
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  You don't wanna impact the end user community.
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  So I I mentioned, you know, we're gonna
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  be moving Epic to the cloud. We wanna
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  have users
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  using the on prem system, you know, Sunday
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  during the day, and then we wanna use,
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  those same users to wake up on Monday
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  and access the cloud based solution. They should
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  not
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  notice anything different other than the fact that
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  everything's working better and faster than it was
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  on Sunday.
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  So being able to move these things without
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  having any end user disruption is the real
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  trick of the trade
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  and something that we're,
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  and the team are very good at implementing
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  both on the epic side of the journey
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  as well as sector and the general purpose
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  workload. So we've developed a very comprehensive strategy
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  in terms of how we're gonna move these
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  really critically important workloads
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  and how to do that in a nondisruptive
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  manner, which is super important in a health
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  care setting. Mhmm.
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  And it's also I mean, that's a distinct
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  need for a leader too because you mentioned
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  this work, the prep for that migration behind
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  the scenes.
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  Also, the seamless transition
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  where it's almost as though people don't even
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  detect it. I mean, success being
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  defined in part by being hard to distinguish
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  or notice
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  and fitting right in,
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  that can sometimes be
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  a unique challenge as a leader when when
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  the goal isn't necessarily more visibility or attention
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  to what's being being done. Right?
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  Right. No doubt.
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  When when success is that you've that nobody
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  notices anything that you're doing, you know, it's
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  hard to, you know,
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  really highlight yourself as a leader, but that
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  really is success in the cloud migration
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  or a migration or a consolidation. We we
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  wanna make sure that we're being nondisruptive,
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  to the business, but yet delivering a lot
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  of value,
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  in in performing that move.
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  So we have all the confidence in the
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  world that once the move is created,
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  we'll be able to deliver all sorts of
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  tools and technologies to our energy community they
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  simply didn't have in the on prem environment.
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  We'll be able to deliver that in the
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  cloud. So that's really the goal and the
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  anticipation
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  and really the excitement around some of these
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  projects. Mhmm.
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  Well, zooming out from Michigan Medicine, I I
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  wanted to talk to you about something more
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  broadly, and this really spans industry wide. But
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  there was an interesting stat that came out
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  this week from an IBM report. It caught
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  my eye. And this report uncovered
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  a paradox in which you've got a lot
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  of CEOs
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  saying how much they value collaboration between technology
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  leaders and their CFOs.
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  And then it turns out that only a
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  small fraction of tech c level leaders are
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  actually working closely with finance to
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  align their tech metrics with the business goals.
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  And this, again, not health care specific. This
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  report spanned
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  26
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  industries. But, Tim, I I wanted to bring
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  it to your attention and see what you
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  think about this.
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  As a CTO,
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  what do you think contributes to that disconnect
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  where CEOs are saying they really want the
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  technology and finance leaders
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  to work closely together and collaborate, and then
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  it turns out it's not happening as much
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  as one might think.
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  Yeah. Those,
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  those numbers
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  somewhat surprised me.
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  I I know that in at least the
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  last decade of my career,
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  I've worked
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  for organizations,
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  that have a lot of rigor and maturity
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  around,
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  you know, product development life cycles and business
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  case use cases,
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  to where really any of the types of
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  things that I might want to do, whether
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  it be, cloud migration, whether it be an
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  integration,
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  whether it be a consolidation,
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  at any IT type of initiative,
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  we need to develop some element of a
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  business case to understand how much we're gonna
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  spend,
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  and
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  what the budget's gonna be,
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  both from a product perspective, from an infrastructure
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  perspective, as well as from a a people
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  perspective or even a consulting
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  effort perspective. All of those elements need to
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  be brought in so that we can clearly
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  define to the organization
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  what we anticipate,
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  expending on that effort. So I've been maybe
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  blessed,
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  that to be a part of organizations that
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  have that type of
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  rigor. But what one of the interesting things
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  about,
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  this particular,
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  topic is you specifically called out CFOs.
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  And what I what I found interesting to
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  that distinction
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  is
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  there's a lot of financial metrics that are
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  important to businesses.
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  But in a health care system, sometimes you
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  do things
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  not because it makes financial sense, but because
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  it's gonna better patient care or better,
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  or create a better patient experience. So you
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  may do something that financially doesn't make sense,
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  but you'd you're going to embark on that
• 10:38
  project or that initiative because it's gonna save
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  lives or you're going to create a better
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  customer experience,
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  which will,
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  which will better the community. So there there
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  are these aspects
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  of certainly within health care of
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  broadening your discussion, not just for the CFOs,
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  but broadening to the to the entire c
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  suite to make sure that we're capturing all
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  of the needs and wants of the organization
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  and make sure everyone's
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  voice is being reflective as we move forward.
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  So
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  so I was surprised by the metrics. I
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  think it's super important. I think it's important
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  to work with the CFO. I think it's
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  important to work with a broader c suite.
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  I think it's important to have good governance
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  in really anything that you do from a
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  technology perspective.
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  So I would encourage
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  those that are operating in a vacuum,
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  you know, to to maybe broaden their,
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  their scope and and broaden their,
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  their communication,
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  channels,
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  aspects of the business.
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  Mhmm.
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  Well, thanks, Tim. And for listeners, this was
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  the report out of IBM August 2024 across
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  26 industries. Those stats,
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  66% of CEOs emphasizing the importance of collaboration,
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  and then only 39% of technology leaders
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  working with finance.
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  So I think, Tim, your point is well
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  received. CFOs, that's one role. There can be
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  a lot of other ways, whether it's operationally,
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  customer experience, patient care, that technology needs to
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  be integrated into a health system like Michigan
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  Medicine. Shifting gears just a little bit, you
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  know, speaking of C level executives and and
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  leaders, can you share, Tim, an important leadership
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  lesson that you learned firsthand throughout your career?
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  What is the lesson? And then I think
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  more importantly, what's the story behind it? How
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  did you arrive at it?
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  Well, I've learned within IT
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  that there are a a 1000000 and one
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  ways to accomplish a given objective.
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  And the way that I would go about
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  accomplishing a particular task may be different than
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  someone else on my team.
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  And it's important to reflect on that. I
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  think as leaders,
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  it's our job to set the vision. It's
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  our job to,
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  define
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  where we're going and why we're going there.
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  But to loosen the reins or give our
• 13:02
  teams,
• 13:04
  lots of rope and lots of latitude
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  in order to develop
• 13:08
  the way that we would accomplish that vision
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  or the way that we would accomplish those
• 13:13
  goals because there are very different ways,
• 13:16
  that we can do that. And for those
• 13:18
  of us who have been in IT
• 13:21
  for a long, long time,
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  at some point in time, your teams
• 13:26
  take away your username and password or take
• 13:28
  away your access to certain systems
• 13:31
  because they don't want you meddling in routers
• 13:33
  or switches or or or databases or things
• 13:36
  of that nature. And the reason that they're
• 13:38
  doing that is because they're telling you, hey.
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  There's better ways to do it, or we
• 13:43
  don't want you doing that stuff. We want
• 13:45
  you doing these other things.
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  So it's a humbling experience when those things
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  happen,
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  as an IT leader that your team says,
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  maybe you shouldn't have access to that, or
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  maybe we don't want you doing those particular
• 13:58
  things.
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  And I crossed that bridge many, many moons
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  ago.
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  But it is fun to reflect, and it
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  is important to say, here's the vision. Here's
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  what we're trying to do. Here's why we're
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  trying to do that,
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  and allow the teams to develop thoughts and
• 14:12
  strategies about how they're going to accomplish that.
• 14:15
  Mhmm.
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  And where does the the skill and the
• 14:19
  leadership
• 14:19
  trait of asking good questions come in here?
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  Because
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  like you said, Tim, if you're trusting the
• 14:26
  team to come up with the plan, you
• 14:27
  lay out the vision, but they're the ones
• 14:29
  really owning and developing the plan.
• 14:31
  How does your ability to ask questions? Maybe
• 14:34
  if you spot something that's a bit fuzzy
• 14:36
  or it could be a potential pitfall
• 14:39
  rather than rolling out your plan, Tim's version.
• 14:41
  Do you find yourself just trying to probe
• 14:43
  more and help them identify those things themselves?
• 14:46
  What does that look like?
• 14:48
  You know, I I think developing
• 14:50
  or,
• 14:52
  getting really good at the Socratic method of
• 14:56
  painting that picture
• 14:58
  is really important. And what I mean by
• 15:00
  the Socratic method is Socrates,
• 15:02
  asked a lot of questions,
• 15:04
  in his,
• 15:05
  teachings.
• 15:06
  And in asking those questions, he helps provide
• 15:09
  illustrations and help help the teams, you know,
• 15:12
  see,
• 15:13
  the goal at the end of,
• 15:15
  you know, his objective or what his vision
• 15:17
  was. And I think that's really important in
• 15:20
  IT. A lot of times,
• 15:22
  when you've been in IT as long as
• 15:23
  I have, you've seen what works and you've
• 15:25
  seen what hasn't worked.
• 15:27
  But you don't necessarily
• 15:29
  want to impress or tell the teams this
• 15:31
  is the way that we're gonna do it,
• 15:33
  as I said in the past.
• 15:35
  What you wanna do is you wanna kinda
• 15:37
  show them these are the different ways that
• 15:38
  you can do it. And then while you're
• 15:41
  showing them the different ways that they can
• 15:43
  achieve those objective,
• 15:45
  ask questions.
• 15:46
  And and asking of those questions, you should
• 15:50
  be showing your teams
• 15:52
  the pitfalls or the advantages of one way
• 15:55
  over another way. And I do a lot
• 15:57
  of that when I'm when I'm scheduling meetings
• 16:00
  with vendors,
• 16:01
  when I'm trying to educate the teams on
• 16:04
  what works and what doesn't work, I ask
• 16:06
  a lot of questions
• 16:09
  not because I don't know the answer, but
• 16:11
  because I want the teams to understand what
• 16:13
  the answer to those questions are and why
• 16:15
  it's important to the overall vision,
• 16:18
  that we're trying to achieve.
• 16:20
  So
• 16:21
  asking questions is super, super important even if
• 16:24
  you know the answer to it. As a
• 16:26
  leader, asking those questions
• 16:28
  to really highlight
• 16:30
  significance and importance,
• 16:32
  to your teams is really important and understanding
• 16:36
  why you would go down one path as
• 16:38
  opposed to another.
• 16:39
  Mhmm.
• 16:40
  Mhmm. Great. And and, Tim, as we wind
• 16:42
  down here, is there anything else you'd like
• 16:44
  to share with our listeners? We kinda danced
• 16:46
  around a few different topics today. Anything we
• 16:48
  didn't get to that they should know or
• 16:50
  keep in mind?
• 16:52
  Yeah. No. I,
• 16:54
  you know, first off, you know, thanks for
• 16:57
  having me, and and thanks for,
• 17:00
  thanks for the time today.
• 17:01
  But as as we conclude,
• 17:03
  you know, IT is a lot of fun.
• 17:05
  And
• 17:06
  and I got into IT because I really
• 17:08
  thought of it as a big giant, you
• 17:11
  know, puzzle.
• 17:12
  And it was fun to put those different
• 17:14
  pieces together.
• 17:16
  And at the end of the day,
• 17:18
  as I said, there's lots of different ways
• 17:20
  to achieve a different IT objective.
• 17:22
  It's also super important to have fun along
• 17:25
  the way, and I think that you can
• 17:26
  do that.
• 17:28
  You can do really complicated things. You can
• 17:31
  do very innovative things. And I think at
• 17:33
  the end of the day, when those things
• 17:35
  are accomplished,
• 17:36
  when those,
• 17:38
  objectives are met, that it's fun to reflect
• 17:41
  back on it. And, hopefully, it's fun.
• 17:43
  It was it was fun to accomplish it,
• 17:46
  along the road. So
• 17:48
  have fun while you're going about doing your
• 17:50
  your IT goals and objectives.
• 17:53
  And if we're gonna wrap up, you know,
• 17:55
  it is important to have fun during these
• 17:57
  IT projects.
• 17:58
  Absolutely.
• 17:59
  Well, Tim Callahan, chief technology officer with Michigan
• 18:02
  Medicine, thank you again for being our guest
• 18:04
  today. Just a real pleasure to catch up
• 18:06
  with you and
• 18:07
  hear your take on a number of different
• 18:09
  topics, Tim. So I hope it's a a
• 18:11
  great fall for you and your team and
• 18:14
  Michigan football.
• 18:16
  Absolutely.
• 18:17
  Thank you so much again for having me,
• 18:19
  and and you have a great rest of
• 18:20
  the day. You too. Thanks, Tim.