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Transcript

with Janus Henderson's Alanna Nensel · Two in Twenty

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to 2 in 20, the podcast from the Alpha Agency team.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Twink Field, and every episode I'm going to be talking to marketing leaders in the investment industry, hearing their perspectives and priorities, talking for about 20 minutes each time.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: In every conversation, I'm going to be asking what success looks like for marketing in the investment industry and also to ensure that they share some tips from their careers so that we all can continue to learn.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: So stay tuned for that.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: This week I am delighted to be joined by Alana Nentzel.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: She is the global head of brand and central marketing for Janice Henderson.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to know her really well over the last couple of years since she moved to London and excited to have this conversation about the big global brand campaign that she's just been leading and really all the lessons that she's learned through her career.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go straight to that conversation.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Alana, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Really excited to jump straight into the sort of your marketing world and hear a bit about your career and what's on your plate at the moment in terms of priorities.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe just for our listeners, you can give a little bit of a snippet of your career journey and then we can go from there.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I was thinking about this when I was thinking about this question, and uh I seem to keep doing things where I'm a little bit of an outlier in my career journey.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I started my career in Chicago, where instead of going to one of the many established and well-known financial firms, I went to this little startup in the US called Henderson Global Investors, um, which uh at the time they were literally still building out their offices.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I had my interview in this little makeshift cubicle as they were the offices were like under construction because everything was so new.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I will always remember it was in the building connected to the Neiman Marcus department store, sort of like a self ridges, and I couldn't find it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't find the office part.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: All I could find was Neiman Marcus.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to ask the Neiman Marcus makeup ladies where the office building was so that I could go to my interview and have my interview in the makeshift cubicle.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, it was great.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was like 25.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: I said this is gonna be great, didn't bother me.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Offices were under construction, nobody had ever heard of this company before.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um we were like making up our website address and our 1-800 number.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what about this?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: What about this?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: We were just everything was from scratch.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: We were building from scratch.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually like one of the coolest things I've ever done.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I got started.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of a bit of an outlier in that sense.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then when Henderson and Janice merged in 2017, I went to Denver as, and I was one of the only Henderson people in the US.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: The US business was primarily um Janice people.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would go to sit in meeting rooms in the Janus offices in Denver and think, what have I done?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm like a pink giraffe in here.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the only one from the Henderson side, and everyone else kind of knows Janice and I don't know it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what have I done?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: But in the end, I really bonded with everyone in Denver.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're an amazing group of people.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're salt of the earth, they're smart, they're collaborative.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was great.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: But then I said, okay, well, actually, I think now I'll move to London.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: So in 2023, I moved to London.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and now I'm a pink giraffe again because I say all my American words and I say elevator and trash can, and but I love it here.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love it here as well.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So um the people in our office here are amazing.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: They're so bright and sharp and welcoming, and um, of course, very polite because they're English.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we're very polite.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got used to the English humor yet?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that is a funny thing because I actually grew up in England um until I was 15.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the first things my team said was, you seem to get our humor, and we don't know why.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, that's because I grew up here.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I grew up watching Little and Large and EastEnders, and so I do kind of get the British dry humor.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just thinking, often we hear of the dynamic between kind of headquarters and being sort of sat in like a main office of a global business versus being sat in a regional hub and just to jump straight into it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And given you have traveled from one to the other, kind of how have you found it, kind of immersing yourself in that?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: I probably felt that most when I was at Henderson, actually.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a long time ago now.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: But when I was at Henderson in Chicago, we really were this kind of entrepreneurial startup, like I said, building the offices, deciding what our website address would be.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you really felt the difference of not being at headquarters, um, which was in London.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that was by far like the center of Henderson Global Investors was in London.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we were in Chicago trying to like build up this American mutual fund business, and it was um, you know, you would really feel like the decisions were happening somewhere else, and you just needed to take them and implement them.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um now I would say we're the firm is much more um, I would say truly global because actually we've got a really big office in Denver in the US with about a thousand employees, and we've got a really big office here in London with about a thousand employees, and then we have um 22 other offices around the world.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's not like everything is happening in one place.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You actually, and maybe that is even more challenging, you kind of have to keep tabs on what's happening in multiple places, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to have connections and relationships with people in Denver, as well as connections and relationships with people in London, as well as in our Sydney office, in our Singapore office.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: From that perspective, it is actually a truly global business, and you have to kind of master that, and you have to always be thinking in all the different time zones and have that mindset.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking about that because I know and we'll maybe dig into this more, your re-brand or your kind of big global brand campaign that you've been doing.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think being in London has been a really useful time zone to be able to roll out something so integrated and so global?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that was a really useful element.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm conscious of hearing from you, like all the kind of the challenges and the successes of doing such a big project.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was just thinking maybe the time zone of being in London was quite helpful.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It can it is when you're trying to set up conference calls, because it's a bit more of a central time.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I could have done it from another location as well.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was about having the right stakeholders involved, and that's one of the kind of key lessons I learned actually, is have the right people in the room if you're launching a campaign like that, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: So this needed to represent our entire business.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: It needed to feel authentic to everybody and feel true to everybody, and it also needed to resonate in every market around the globe and in every channel.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So institutional, intermediary, retail, direct.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was a big challenge to make sure it would resonate in all those places.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but that was about making sure that we had the right people in the room making decisions and also uh honestly doing a lot of market testing as well.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, more broadly, the kind of the steps you went through, was there more socialization than you anticipated, or kind of what were the surprises that you found in achieving this rollout?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think one of the things I I was thinking, what did I kind of learn from it, or what are maybe some things that helped it to live?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that really is getting the right people in the room when you're making those decisions.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So have the right people in the room, in the team, when you're looking at what agency is gonna do this for you, when you're looking at ideas and just right at the concept level.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing I would say is get more voices in early than late.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things in marketing, because we're all, well, we can be kind of perfectionists, is you don't want to show something to people until it's perfect and you love it and you've made it exactly, you know, and it's beautiful.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually too late then to actually take their opinions into account or to pivot and change course.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think as marketers, we have to get much better at bringing people into the process early when it's not perfect and it's messy, and you're giving them a bunch of caveats about what you know you're gonna look at to change, and you realize this isn't all the way there yet.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: But that's when you can actually pivot if you're going in the wrong direction or you know, take their comments and make changes.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that was something that we did, and I was thinking, like, you know, you don't there is this tendency to kind of go into the conclave with your key marketers and go and create the beautiful thing we were joking about.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're not actually naming the next pope.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we can bring people into this process.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be a secret, and I actually think that's the key.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I guess people want to feel like they're molding together to be able to embrace it and sort of feel a kind of connection to this new positioning themselves.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you start to like you start to love it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you start to be like, oh my gosh, we can do something with this.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is so exciting.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: But then the more you love it, the more you want to make it perfect before you show it to anyone, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like you don't send your children off to school picture day with like their sweater on backwards and their hair standing up because you're like, no, no, no, we're gonna show this to everybody and I really care about this, so we're gonna make it, we're gonna make you look all beautiful.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that's what you start to do with your marketing campaign when actually you've got to show it um before it's ready.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is that I used to think that we were winning if when I explained my big idea to them, they got it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they would say, Oh, right, I get it.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: You've you've explained that, I get it.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know if you have to explain it, you've already lost.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can't have to explain it.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: They have to get it by themselves without you, and like almost immediately.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the other big learning is don't go and try to explain this to a lot of people because actually, if I'm having to do that, that means it's like the wrong idea.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the bar that we kind of set for this new campaign because I had learned that trying other things in my career was we really want people and our new brand symbols and ampersand, and we really wanted people to right away feel like I kind of get that, it feels very inclusive.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: You want to do this together with us, you kind of want to bring things together.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's who you are as a firm.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And the big test was, would they get that?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so far it seems that they do.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: They say, We we kind of understand, and they can almost describe it in words that I think, oh, I would have used those words, so that's great.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, but that was the new bar.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't, can I explain it to someone and they get it?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was can they just get it on their own?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, funny enough, just to endorse that, I was at a conference last week and talking to somebody about brand, and Janice Henderson came up, and this person was saying that they absolutely represented their experience of Janice Henderson around the sort of the partnership and the togetherness that we've talked about.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that obviously is translating into the kind of client experience too.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So good job, lady.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is amazing.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a hundred percent the goal, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that story just made my day, but that's exactly it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we're going for.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what's next?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, it's not been the a quiet sort of year or so, but uh I assume you have priorities for the next 12 months or so.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's the kind of the key key goals?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, key goals, I mean, for brand, I would say it's just continuing to bring the ampersand to life, to bring our brand to life.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: We want to keep growing our brand awareness, we want to keep growing positive brand perceptions.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: So there's do they know your name?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's do they know your name and they like you?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we want to grow both of those.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to make sure we're just really building on consistency, we're using the ampersand as it should be used and in all the places where it's helpful, what are more ways we can bring that into our branding?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that on brand, definitely, but also along with I think everyone in the industry, we're also thinking about how we can be more efficient, how, you know, where can we automate things, where can we do things smarter, where can we use AI.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I will say I don't view it's not all just AI.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: There are ways to be efficient that definitely do use AI, but you can also be thinking about what should we stop doing that isn't needed anymore?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's make sure we're not doing anything just because it's the way we've always done it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: What could we automate?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Automation isn't necessarily all about AI.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, what could we automate to make things more efficient?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then there is actually where can we use AI, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And where could we be, you know, we're looking at implementing Copilot, we're using AI in our RFPs now.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're where can we create an agent that does research for us or use AI to even make my email sound better?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there is there are all those ways to use AI as well.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think sometimes people get so excited about AI that they forget what is the reason you're using it.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, you're trying to increase your efficiency, reduce your costs.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's probably lots of ways we can be doing that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting because as you say, I think some people really embrace it and want to run hard at it and actually are quite creative in the way that they're thinking about embedding AI into their working practices, and then others are maybe more naturally or a little bit more reticent, a little, you know, like that sort of sense of change kind of in the way that you do things and then and how you might be thinking about uh efficiency is something a little bit more daunting.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you as a leader create a culture of that experimentation and embracing new ideas?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are the I guess uh qualities you draw on as a leader in the business to help foster that type of culture?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of it is making it a little bit more concrete.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: If you just say, let's use AI, that's just too big and it's too broad and nobody knows what to do with that.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, but if as a leader you're giving examples of how you've seen it used, how you're using it in the day-to-day, I think that helps it.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think people need AI to be broken down a little bit.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Here's how I used it in creating this presentation today.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Here's how I used it in distilling the research from 20 focus groups we just ran.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give the concrete examples and let's make this a little bit more real for people.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think also having a little bit of fun with it, I do think it can feel quite big and scary.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, everyone's like, why are they saying AI is gonna take my job?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that sounds terrible.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, can we have a little bit more fun with it?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I would recommend everyone to be using AI in your personal life, right?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like AI is the best travel planner I've ever had.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can plug in all of your family's ridiculous requirements for a good trip, and it will just go with that and you know, have the best travel plans for you.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, use it in your personal life, have a little bit of fun with it, have fun with it at work.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I use AI to try to come up with creative taglines for things all the time when I am at the end of the day and I'm out of words and I need a little help.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, and it comes up with ridiculous things, but once in a while you get a good idea.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So always as a leader, let people fail fast and don't punish failure and so that they are willing to experiment.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Great idea.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think also to your point around creative ideas using AI, is it not always is it's the answer, but it can be the springboard to a to another idea, you know, like it's just another input that you can leverage and use.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly it.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: I rarely end up using the exact, you know, words that it will come up with, but very often it will trigger an idea that I have that I like better, but I would never have gotten there without the list of 20 things that AI put out and I said, no, no, no, no, no.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: But it made me think of something.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was conscious earlier you were talking about what are the things that we stop doing?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do we make sure that marketing is more efficient and effective?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to uh ask about the things that you just don't compromise on, you know, because in all of that, there's just always more asks of marketing, isn't there?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: To do more with maybe less people or less budget, you know, we're under a lot of pressure to demonstrate ROI.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are the things that you and your team know that you will never compromise on?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of those things are bringing the human authenticity into what we do, and that will come through in creative ideas, it will come through in our storytelling, it will come through in our videos, it comes through in our investment insights.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, as AI grows, people more and more want to know what really came from a human mind and an idea and an insight that you had rather than something computer generated.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to hold true to that, especially at Janice Henderson, where we are all about together and we are all about bringing ideas together and insight-led investing and trying to be innovative.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of that is human-led.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've got to make sure that's coming through and not compromise on that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then generally, just you've got to really be thinking about your client experience.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you can say all the right things, but if someone comes to do business with you and they have a terrible experience, you've lost.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like you've lost them and you've probably lost all their friends too.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, so we will certainly be trying to continue to work on our client experience so that whatever expectations our brand has set, the experience actually delivers on those.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think you should compromise on that.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, the more that I think about client experience, I go places and I think, oh, this is a very bad client experience that I am having at this restaurant right now or at this store right now where I'm trying to buy a pair of shoes and you know, nobody will help me.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and the store says they're the best things since sliced bread.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um you start to think about that out in the world.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we, you know, we cannot compromise on that.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: We have to deliver.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really nice tick for listeners to make sure you're using kind of that exposure of everyday life to think and what you can pull from to kind of reflect and think about how you augment and improve the ways that things happen in your working life.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that point, Twink.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just say really quickly, one of the things I learned earlier in my career was, and it felt like a light bulb at the time.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like when I say this, a lot of people are gonna say, yeah, we already know this.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: But at the time, they said, you know, you're not competing against the experience that people are having with other financial firms.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're competing against their best last experience.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if they just came to your website from Amazon.com or, you know, Apple or some slick brand that's done this great job and they had a great experience, then you're that's the best last experience they had.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're competing with.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you're absolutely right that we should be thinking about this out in the world, in our, in our life, and you know, because that's truly our competition, not just within the financial services industry.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was going to ask as a closing question or penultimate question, so what does success look like for marketing and financial services?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder whether that's a related point.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's definitely that would have been what I would have said is that you want their experience in financial services to rival any great experience they're having in their life as a consumer or as a client anywhere else as well.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in the past, our industry has been behind that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: We have a value clients come first always.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of our five values.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that the industry has made clients feel like that always, that they are coming first.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it feels as a client coming in, like these are our roles, and you need to play by our roles and the industry's roles instead of what do you need as a client and how can we help you achieve that?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if we as an industry, I think, and certainly Janice Henderson as well, can think about things from the client perspective and not say, but we can't do it that way, or that's not how we're set up, or that's not going to be easy for us.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter, right?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: If that's what the client wants, that's what we should be striving for because that's what the other industries are doing, right?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what retail industries are doing, and that's what clients are going and experiencing elsewhere.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want them to come into financial services where they're trying to save for their retirement or their college education fund or their wedding and feel like it's a terrible experience.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: These are their dreams.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that should be our bar.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Aspirational ending to this conversation, Alana.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe just um kind of one final point or question, conscious of uh listeners and you know the fantastic career that you've gone through and built and inspiring everybody from that those early boutiques and to kind of where you are now with the fully integrated campaigns and and brand.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, are there any tips you have as we continue to grow our careers?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I will leave with one tip because I've already talked a lot on this podcast.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll just say I'll try to leave with one succinct idea here, and that would be always be learning.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Always.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: As I've grown in my career, I have realized that the smartest, most genius people I know in the industry ask the most questions.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And these are people who have decades of experience and knowledge, but they never focus on what they already know.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: They focus on what they don't know.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they're always asking questions and probing and trying to figure out more.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you think that's their focus.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's never on telling you all the things that they know already.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: They don't care about that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's boring to them.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: They know that already.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: They are trying to figure out the next thing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is how we be successful is always be learning, always be figuring out that next thing.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: It took me, I think, too long to figure that out.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Take advantage of any programs that your company offers to learn.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, play around with Chat GPT and AI and ask it a million questions.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: Be a lifelong learner.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is such a key to success.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And take advantage of great marketing podcasts like this one.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I could have added that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Take advantage of that too.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Alana, thank you so much for joining me and for such an open conversation.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's always a treat chatting to you.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Twink, for having me.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was great.