Latest / PlanetGeo: The Geology Podcast / How to Get Hired - CEO Lindsey Schultz

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How to Get Hired - CEO Lindsey Schultz · PlanetGeo: The Geology Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Planet Geo, the podcast where we talk about our amazing planet, how it works, and why it matters to you.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, real quick before we get started, we are looking for a partner.
• 0:17
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• 0:23
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• 0:29
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• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, on to the audio.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Chris.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: That was awesome.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was flat out amazing.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot of good people that we like to talk to on this podcast.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Our interviews are our interviews are amazing.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't think there's ever an interview.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: The funnest part of this job, Jesse, is that is getting to talk to great people that are really, really good at what they do.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: And uh this that interview we just had, Chris, was with Lindsay Schultz.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: She's the CEO of MRC Recruiting, a recruitment leader in the mining sector.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I first came across Lindsay by following her on LinkedIn.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: She makes some amazing posts, is clearly like a connection builder in the mining geoscience sector.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And um I this was the most impactful interview that we've done in a long time.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, I think I think you're right.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's relevant to so many of our listeners that are coming out of college or younger in their careers or even mid mid-career that maybe are looking for a change or or looking for an inspiration, right?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's just uh this is an exciting time to be looking at going into geoscience.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: It just confirms what we have been doing in our little mini-series and what we've talked about on my front porch drinking a beer.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it hit all the check so many boxes for me.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like a couple things that stood out.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, it's not hard to stand out amongst your peers.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there are some really easy things that Lindsay talks about, really easy things for you to do to improve your potential for getting hired.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Second thing, geologists are in demand.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of jobs out there.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: And interestingly, she said geologists ones are the hardest to recruit for.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that really struck me.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like that there's there's work to be done here and there's a there's demand like that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, those two we're we're doing the work, Jesse.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: We are doing the work, okay?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're trying, we're trying, we're trying.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we're trying.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: But um I think Lindsay's actually doing the work, but we're you know, we're just talking about it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: But but she I I I I'm kind of speechless.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: To be honest, I'm a little speechless.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just get right to it.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I want to say too that if you listen to this and you have questions, send us an email.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're really looking forward to doing 2.0 with this uh with her.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that's gonna that's gonna require listener questions and listener feedback on what this episode's all about.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Leave a review, uh, leave a comment rather on um on YouTube or if you're on Spotify, leave a comment, send us an email.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: We have a contact us link in our website, first link in the show notes.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: Please use that and and we will ask Lindsay other questions.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can also follow Lindsay on LinkedIn and her podcast is Oratory or Atory, which is very cleverly named, and and tell some great stories about uh people in the mining sector.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's just stories about mining.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're like interested in geoscience at all, it's a great one to go listen to.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, what do you think, Chris?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Should we just get to it?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Please listen to the whole thing.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's in like it's just full of thought-provoking stuff.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I I just love this image.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: So here we go, Lindsay Shoals.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: That would be good if the bunny ears was exactly parts.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what it's gonna capture, but something that would be good.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man, that's good.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: That was kind of crazy.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, well, with that with that spectacular intro, Lindsay, welcome to Planet Geo and thanks for joining us.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: We're really excited to talk to you here.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: I am excited to be here, and thank you so much for having me.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: This is gonna be a fun conversation.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know Chris and I are really uh argue a lot about titles, and mostly because neither of us are good at making podcast titles, I don't think.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I was thinking about Chris, you haven't floated this one by you, but how about a title like How to Get Hired?
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a good title for this, Chris?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's catchy, Jesse.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's one of your better ones.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's catchy.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm excited to focus on all sorts of stuff.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and we'll see if that that you know comes out of this.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, Lindsay, um, we always kind of lead out with a question along these lines.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: And if we're asking geologists, we say what got you into geology, because Chris and I have like moments in time that like Chris was the the aha moment for me.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was sitting in his class and he has an aha moment.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think a lot of people who are really passionate, dude.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: What is your origin story for what got you into you know your field and the this geoscience adjacent field that you're in?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you stole my leadoff question.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: So I really like this.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is the how I start my podcast too.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is yeah, okay, great.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um so Well, then you better have a good story.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: You better you better have a good story.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: I try, right?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like every time it evolves.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_04: And so yeah, I'll I'll do my best guess here.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so by accident, like every mining person that I've ever met in my entire life, with the exception of those who have been like six generations into mining.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: So Oh, is that right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: My dad started our company 40 plus years ago, and I swore I would never go near a mine, that I would not be part of the mining industry.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: My degree was in human resources.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: I thought I was safe.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_04: And um, I graduated with my bachelor's degree and interviewed and was like, oh, do I want to be an HR professional?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_04: It turns out like when you're fresh out of school, you get to like fire people and take notes.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: And this does not sound like a good time to be.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so my dad runs, you know, a recruitment group, and he was like, Well, you've listened to us talk on the phone for years.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: It's part of HR, you can come and do this until you figure out what you want to do when you grow up.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: It's 20 years later.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um I've been so as a function of that, we had um an HR side to our business where we worked across industry.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then we had a mining side of the business.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I started on HR.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: I very rapidly moved into the mining side because growing up, I traveled with my dad to mining conferences for family vacations and other things.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: And they were always just really great people.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_04: And in spite of the fact that our family trips revolved around Vancouver, Toronto, Reno, Phoenix, Denver.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: But those are pretty good places to go.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_04: They were good mining hubs, and and I didn't mind it at all.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so I sort of figured out how to be a non-technical mining person.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I took mining 101.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: I went to any mine site that I could get an invitation to, and then I had the bug.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: And so no sooner did I think I had things sort of figured out that like the rug got pulled out from under me.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like the 2008 uh, you know, global correction, collapse, etc., whatever, which was short-lived.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_04: But I put on my HR hat and I helped everybody rewrite the resumes.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, they were like, How long am I going to be employed?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: What does this look like?
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm I I don't have a crystal ball, but I can help with whatever tactics or, you know, things that you might need in the background.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_04: And by helping those individuals who were at, you know, mid to senior levels in their careers who hadn't looked for a job in 20 years, they're all now my clients and have secured my spot in the mining industry.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_04: So um, you know, it's just a very serendipitous scenario that I have loved every piece of.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Never waste a good crisis, right?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Never waste a good crisis.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: That is really interesting, Lindsay.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Jesse, I don't know about you, but I do know that I was dragged into my profession kicking and screaming as well.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew, you know, I I did.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I knew coming out of high school, I I knew that I was not gonna be a teacher and I was done with science.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And uh goes to show what an 18-year-old kid knows because uh you know both of those um were not true.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's okay.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Jesse, I want to follow up.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so Lindsay, can you please uh for our listeners explain a little bit more about what you do?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you you talked about how you got into it, but what exactly what's your job?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have I that I that's a good question.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: I figured it out every day.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um ultimately I now manage a group, um, a recruitment agency that is focused on the mining industry.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_04: We recruit professionals from entry level through board level in all functional areas within the mining industry.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: Let's go mining, extractive resource, and auxiliary areas that support mining.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um so what that really means from my perspective is we are a support system to help secure talent for companies who need assistance in that area.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that happens often when it's really technical or they have been focused on one area and they're moving into another when they have a turnaround.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: All kinds of instances would necessitate our getting involved to sort of insulate that talent pool a little bit.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm really interested in that in terms of that's really specialized.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's a niche like thing that you're after.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: How does that work?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get into just like looking for that those people?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: No, that makes sense.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_04: And again, it was an accident.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um my dad, again, who started our organization, he specialized in industrial social work and and like helped do EAP programs and other things.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: And he pitched an EAP, so an employee assistance program for those who who don't know what the acronym is, to a mine here in Colorado.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: And he was in Philadelphia.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: The goal was to get West, and he and a friend moved to Colorado with a handshake agreement, and then the mine would dig and say, Oh, actually, those are probably what we want to spend money on.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so, but they had an entry point, and so they were firmly stuck in Denver.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_04: And so then they said, look, we can we can do this, or we can, you know, build a recruitment agency.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: And so ultimately my dad was started doing some recruiting and really focused on HR professionals, but was placing them all in oil, gas, mining, extractive.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then the HR professionals then came down and said, Could you do a geologist, could you do a mining engineer, could you do whatever?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so it sort of built out organically over time and then just became a focus area for us.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a really happy niche for us to find um because it's been so much fun to learn from everybody in the mining industry.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Does that require you to have any geoscience background then?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Or it's helpful.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's absolutely helpful.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, everybody on our team has HR and has worked in a mine or for an environmental group.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and part of the requirement, if you have less at a mine site, or if you don't have a geosciences degree of some sort, is that you insulate that knowledge base by taking coursework and by going to mines.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm probably actually the lightest in that area because I have an HR and a MBA, you know, finance sort of orientation.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like I said, I did mining 101.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_04: I continue to take some classes through EduMine and through, you know, any other spot that I can and just go to mine sites and try to ask as many questions as I can and find that there has not been any lack of willingness to help.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm really fortunate.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: But isn't that all learning in the end of the day?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you get some certifications and it's helpful, but it's like on the job, you know, going to my I'm sure you learn more going to a mind site than you could, you know, in in in most uh classes just by seeing it and talking to the people who are actually doing it and all that stuff.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it absolutely changed my perspective.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: I I did like the mining one-on-one course, and then my first mind site visit was Baghdad um in Arizona with Free Fort.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you've got acronyms SXEW, and you see it, and now it's etched into my mind.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: I know exactly what's going on and what portion of it is, and you know, all the funny things that they say about it.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: And so, yeah, on-the-job training sometimes is amazing.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Can I um Chris, can I ask a follow-up to this?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: I I know we're we're we're spending a lot of time on this, but I'm really interested.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: So hold on, hold on, hold on, Jesse, hold on.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay, I gotta warn you.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Jesse gets a little windy with his questions, so you might want to take notes because there's usually like four or five embedded into one, and it takes like five minutes to get through it.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: So just five questions.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm prepared and thank you hardly.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I need to bundle them up and you know, package them.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: These were this one I've thought through a little bit, but it's it is a two-parter.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, you're based in Colorado.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: Is that did I hear you?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's correct.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, why Colorado?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: Is it just that a good hub?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is that yeah, is that important?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is that a good hub or is that important?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because it sounds like you work at a at a global scale.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is that is that accurate?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_04: It's not important where I live, actually.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I just like it here.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: I I lived in Phoenix before that.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: It was also not a bad spot.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, yeah, it really doesn't matter where I live.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: That was really easy.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_04: So you gave me that heads up and like though that was the that was the easiest question so far.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's self-conscious.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the part, yeah.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to keep it brief.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: The part two is um you you mentioned a uh hesitancy or an aversion to mining specifically.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Was that because something to do with mining or more because something to do with the fact that your dad did it?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: Probably both.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and probably both, okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: Probably both.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And how can I and then I would the follow-up is like how could you give us a pitch for or your what when was your recognition of like oh mining is valuable to society, and I'm I want to go into a career that supports this enterprise that that some people or that a lot of people have big problems with.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: I would say right, like and and there are some problems with or historically there have been.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tease that apart a little bit from your personal experience?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, let me think about that a little bit.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: How was that for a complicated one, Chris?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't that wasn't too bad.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was understanding.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it does make me think for a second.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, so honestly, when I didn't want to go into mining, I thought I would do one of two things.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: And this was when I was really young.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I thought that I would be on the environmental side.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so I knew enough about mining to know that ultimately it was extractive and finite.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: And that in some cases, living in at that time, New Mexico, and seeing old mines that were not reclaimed appropriately, that it sort of made a mess, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought I can fix that, or like I don't want to be a part of that, but I can fix it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so that was sort of that early stage scenario.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: So like middle school, high school recognition, and you know, you're gonna go and save the world and not do what your dad does, and all of that stuff.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: So like rebellion.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then when he said, Hey, you can come join the company.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: A familiar giggle.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: His dad was a teacher.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Chris's dad was a teacher.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that was also part of the aversion for being a teacher for Chris.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's a legit thing, you know?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know exactly, you know too much.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you know too much.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's it's something to to grapple with.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so when my dad said, look, you can come do this, I thought for sure it'd be a year and whatever.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_04: And being that I sort of dabbled in mining and I I had gone to some conferences and things, I didn't have an immediate aha moment.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: It was just another thing to learn.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I I liked that, but honestly, it took me a while until I had this like holy shit, I can do all kinds of cool stuff, and mining is really a spot that I can get behind and advocate for and understand and recognize its value on a global scale as sort of an early stage point, right?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like infrastructure, agriculture, medicine, medical devices, technology, everything we have starts sort of with mining.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: And we don't talk about that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like an origin story for our origin story is that like we do a terrible job of talking about the really cool stuff that we help make happen and just hide in this tiny little cave and say, like, you know, we're just doing things in the background.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it's time to get outside of that and and really advocate for one responsible mining and two for supporting the people that do the work within it and and creating infrastructure and companies that are forward-looking and not just talking about drilling holes and taking materials out of the earth and and that we can do this in a responsible fashion that really insulates our need to electrify and do all of the you know important things that we have to do.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's really well put.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh thank you.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that was I that was really well put.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: 100% agreed.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think you hit all of my sub points in my question.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I didn't write them down.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think you hit them all.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I I forgot all my sub points actually.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if you hit them all, but it was a great answer to whichever ones I asked.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So Lindsay, Lindsay, I want to switch directions just for a second.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because we have I I gotta imagine Jesse alluded to it earlier.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of listeners that are, you know, going through the educational process or young in their careers, and they're probably, I think at this point, sitting on the edge of their seats, I would think, because I would really want to know what you have to say.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of students that that are in this kind of like space, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um what are some keys?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what advice do you have for how they need to get hired?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first part of it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the second part is what are maybe some things that people do that prevent them from getting hired?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: I really love that question.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: I particularly enjoy working with students and early career professionals because they have no idea what recruiters do and they have this idea that they're reserved for executive level roles or something.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_04: And to be totally honest, there are not enough professionals coming into the mining industry.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_04: And our ability to reach them is very poor because we're completely detached, we don't know the mechanisms to to to get to them.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: LinkedIn is not it, and we talk to each other and sing each other's praises on LinkedIn all day, every day.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so trying to figure out new creative ways to reach them is really important.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I love talking to students because it helps me learn um and pretend to stay young and and relevant.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that that in terms of what makes them successful is understanding that they have a place in this and that they can have a voice and that they can help change the industry for the better.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I've warned our clients for years that the values of the incoming talent pool are vastly different than those that are exiting.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: And so they need to be prepared to create organizations that can support that talent.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's a really interesting point that Chris and I have talked about a a lot.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I teach, you know, a big um, you know, big intra-level geology class, and so 250 students or something like that.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you get all types in these types of in these classes.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a lot of them will be mining engineers.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm kind of already fo like the the industry focused side of the student bodies in my classroom.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: But even those ones have a sustainability bent to their ideals that is I I would say it's almost irrational, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's very idealistic, it's very hopeful, it's very positive, it's a little unrealistic, I think, at times.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and so even in that community, it's a really like strong, um, it's a strong movement.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And right, so how do you how do you talk to employers about that?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you just brought up a really interesting point there.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, Chris.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have to make sure we come back to the original question because I really want to make sure that so let we'll put a pin in that.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so yeah, yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I need to take notes, but I'm not taking notes.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_04: So somebody has to remind me.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: We're down another rabbit hole.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: Great, Chris, we'll do it.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: So from uh how do I talk to clients about the values and the visions and the the the critical bits of what the next generation of talent looks like.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: I just tell them, you're missing the boat.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think that we can sugarcoat this, honestly.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: And and I probably spend more time on deaf ears than anybody wants to admit.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_04: Because to make that change in large organizations, which I really support, is very difficult.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Because we have this idea that we've always done it this way.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: This is how we talk about what we do.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_04: And this is sometimes why one, we can't attract new investment, and two, new talent, both of which are prohibitive for our success.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, how do we make them change that philosophy?
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_04: It's because they're hurting.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's because they absolutely have to, or because perhaps they've recognized that the company that they have had the most fun in, that they've had the most success in, are already building this platform for values and sustainability as part of it.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so doing the right thing is almost never the wrong thing to do, right?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so I say almost never the wrong thing to do because some companies will not get funded.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_04: Some companies, because they're not playing by the traditional rule book, are not getting the attention.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_04: But some of them are just saying, we'll attract different investment, we'll attract different people, and we'll figure it out along the way.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so a lot of what I do is support, you know, startup through producing mid-tier organizations, consulting groups, et cetera.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: So they're a lot more agile and more receptive to that message because they need the talent.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes it's not because they're the best paid, sometimes it's because they can say, we can make some concessions to our own philosophies to how we're built so that we can attract the right talent.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think we'll see more of it out of necessity, but I think that we'll see a big push when we get to a pinch point and things are really hurting.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um to go back to Okay.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so can we go back to what makes them?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Can we go back to Yeah.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: What are there is there something that is a like a common denominator with the younger people that are coming out that they're doing wrong?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_04: Uh let's go with two things.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_04: They're ill-equipped to communicate in person.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that is such an interesting point.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I like this, yeah.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: I think that they tend to do a really good job communicating behind a computer screen, behind a phone, etc.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_04: And they have enough resources AI, internet, YouTube, professors, peers, etc., to build a profile that looks fairly robust.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then they get into an interview and they can't talk about any part of it.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: And they're brief, they are afraid to be themselves and show any color to their personality or personal interests, which makes them stand out.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and in a in a negative way, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: Or or no, I would say like always show who you are.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Like either.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I understand.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_04: I understand.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I misinterpreted what you said.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: The negative way would be just that they're not prepared to go into a workforce environment where people are asking a lot of them, and they've kind of painted this very like Instagram perfection scenario and they're they're not living up to it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I I just was having a conversation with somebody um uh with a guy, a couple guys I play basketball with, and we're a little bit of the older generation.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: We're in the gym, and it's like six forts, you know, and everybody's Chris is ancient, I'm old.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, but we're in the we're in the gym, like just looking at this huge, you know, university gym, there's lots of courts, and everybody's just shooting by themselves.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And like I remember when I was growing up, it was like you don't, I mean, you just played with other people, like random people, and you go up and ask these students and they're like, Do you want to play?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, No, I'm shooting by myself.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, What?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's like so foreign.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I think there's like a hesitant.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So we were talking about is this a generational hesitancy to interact with other humans kind of thing that there's like some barrier in this anyway.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a really interesting point you brought up.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I yeah, that is Chris.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see that in students too?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see what Lindsay's referring to?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was just talking about it today.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I'll get an email or a text when it's so much better with the with the topic at hand where this is this needs a face.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I need a face-to-face with this kind of question or with this kind of ask.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: You don't ask people to do big things for you over a text.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the kind of thing I was just talking about.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay, you said two things.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was one.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: That was one.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: What's up?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_04: So the the second thing is following up.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I think that often they assume things are gonna come to them and that they get to turn them away.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so they're recipients of opportunities versus like going out and seizing the moment, saying, I want this, this is important to me, and and chafing something.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: And despite the fact that we're resource constrained in terms of people in the mining industry, we're not very good at saying, I want you like to be chafed a little bit.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_04: And really what I mean by that is just like after you have because we're a bunch of assholes in the best possible way.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, we've had the option.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: We've we we haven't needed the wealth of people that we do now.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: There hasn't been this pressing need for domestic supply and national security and like all of the things that we have at the forefront right now.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, I think some of that will change.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: And but I think that the ability and willingness to follow up, say, I want this, this is important, right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: A like a thank you note for your time, for your interest in me, like that goes a very long way.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it used to happen every single time.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_04: Professionals would would interview, they'd send a follow-up note or call, God forbid.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_04: And now it's like maybe 20% of the time with individuals that either are entering or maybe like within the first 10 years of career.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think those two things are really prohibitive.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I think really it boils down to they've always had the ability to communicate easily behind a screen.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: And what we're asking them to do, and I think what the mining industry gets people hooked and really like linked into it is by having strong professional networks and the ability to develop and maintain relationships over the long haul, because it is so insular and small.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like if you can't get along, if you can't communicate, if you can't talk about the hard things, the big things, the weird things, you're not gonna last.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so while that's a big scary thing for somebody who's never had to do it, this is the big scary thing you have to do.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: You have to push yourself outside that comfort zone and learn how to communicate in person effectively.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay, that is okay Jesse.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can I can I I I agree, but I have a can I go a second?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: I I just have something on my answer.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm burning back.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, go ahead.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: No, not not really.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just have a uh pushback on what you said about that we as that I think you were talking about HR and you know, the people that are doing the hiring, right?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: That you're not good at going after the people that you want.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really interesting to me.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm really surprised by that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I'm a part of the hiring process with people in our department, in my department.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember last year at the end of the year, we were hiring a an earth science, geoscience teacher, and you just knew right away this this is the person we want.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she left the interview, and I said to my I looked at my boss, I said, You're not gonna let her get out of the parking lot, are you?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and he was like, he looked at me like I'm like, don't let her leave.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he did, he let her leave, and we almost lost her.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was uh, I don't know.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I it's so foreign to me because if I I see somebody that is a good fit, I will I'll do anything to get that person to come work here.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: That's so I guess I'll comment on that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: And this is perhaps just my lens as a recruiter and watching people hire or not.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so I have sort of like a personal philosophy that this I think that that what I see in practice is individuals that are motivated and and action oriented, like what you're saying, Chris, where they're like, I can make this decision.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: I feel confident in in what I know about them and how they presented themselves, and like, let's do this.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: And then we have the ones that are like, we found this one, let's find like three more.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: I just want to see like what else there is.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: And that could take like six months or a year.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_04: And by then you could have lost the first one.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: You could maybe not find anybody even close to that.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_04: And so, and there's actually like a study around this.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: I will find it and send it to you.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_04: But it's sort of like after you hit so many people, sort of like a law of diminishing returns.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: So as a recruiter, I see hundreds, sometimes thousands of people for specific sorts of roles and I weed that down.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I call up my rule is like rule of tens.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: So if I see a hundred people, it gets narrowed down very quickly to 10 and then very quickly to even less than that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so if we're talking about larger volumes, you know, just do that same math.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: But by the time hiring managers get through all the interviews and things like that, they've seen the best ones I can come up with.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: And so if there's a level of trust in themselves and in the process and in the candidate, like either they're not ever gonna buy or they don't know what they want.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so action is really important.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: But I think the larger the organization or the younger the hiring managers, which really like translates to me to confidence in their ability to execute and say, like, I made that choice, the longer it takes typically.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is such an I have a thousand questions that are coming to mind right now.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: Lizzie, this is so interesting.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: I I love this conversation.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I okay, I want to ask you a series of questions just to understand the landscape that you're talking about from your view a little bit better, because I'm I'm one of those people who perhaps doesn't quite understand what a recruiter does.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to just level set that part and then end with a question about students and about training and education.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, so you work for a company who's hiring.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a correct framing of your job?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what you're doing.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: So a company comes to you and says, I have a this opening, help me find somebody great for that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is that right?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So what are the range of roles and maybe the distribution?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned earlier that you kind of have all types.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you uh from executive suite, you know, C-suite down to like junior exploration geologists forever?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: How what's the balance within their own?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: It depends.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I mean, it's it totally depends.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so at any given time it fluctuates.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: So some like right now we have a lot of senior level roles and then like some very junior level roles, but nothing in between.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes it'll look like all of the what I call the doers, like mid-management, you know, superintendent level, etc.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, okay, this is what we're doing.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: And they're all really technical and and sort of mission critical, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, right now we have the opposite ends of the spectrum.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: We've got entry level.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: So, like going into your career, you know, first five years or so, almost zero experience to five years, being able to contribute to a team in actually geosciences.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_04: So if anybody needs a job, I've got a bunch of them.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so on the other side, you know, so it really depends on on the market, commodity prices, who our clients are at any given moment, etc.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, if you if uh let's can we take one, maybe a recent example and play it out for us.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like how did it work?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did you get on the phone and call a bunch of people, or do you like put out an ad and take in resumes and then you sift through them?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like how can you just walk us through one example, maybe?
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm trying not to sneeze.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: So if I interrupt my answer with a sneeze, I apologize.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's quite all right.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's quite all right.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm allergic to Chris too.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it does look like I'm crying here, holding it's the stifling my sneeze in the background.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so ultimately, what a search process looks like for us.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_04: And it's different with every group, but you know, this is probably the most basic that I can come up with.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: So company calls and says, hey, I need an entry-level geologist.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_04: Here are the criteria for it.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_04: I want them to have a bachelor's degree, you know, some understanding of some of these computer softwares that we are using and a desire to be in the field and somebody that, you know, can communicate well.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: Then I go out.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_04: I usually put out an ad um through LinkedIn, through, you know, any strategic advertising vehicle.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: And usually those look like geosciences, SME, any like big mining association that might be effective.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_04: So ads go out.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: That's low-hanging fruit.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's just sort of like casting a large net.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_04: Then I go through our database, which we cultivate all the time, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: So we look at people on LinkedIn.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Your database of clients or of of candidates for roles.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you have like a repository of people that you might pick up the phone and call and say, hey, I've got a great one for you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, whatever.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what it's like.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Fill in the name.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_04: I send out an email really easy again.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_04: So like start from the easiest to the hardest.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: So ads go out, we try to capture people that way.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: Then we send out an email to anybody that might fit that mold in our proprietary database of names and emails and LinkedIns and all of that stuff.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: So they get something.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe they look at it, maybe they don't.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe they respond.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_04: We set up a call.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_04: Then I start like cultivating that list and saying, like, ooh, I know this person or this person was referred to me, or you know, I scattered them out through, you know, company website or their advisor or somebody, whatever.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_04: And then I start calling.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: Truly freaks them out because no one calls on the phone anymore.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: And leave messages.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: I hope that they call me back.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_04: So by that time, I've probably hit you on three channels email, phone call, LinkedIn if they have it at an early stage.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so they're like really annoyed.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, well, this must be legit.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because at early stage, professionals are like, who in the world is calling me and what do they want?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like, this is so weird.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so sometimes there's this education standpoint where I'm like, this is what I do, this is who I'm working for.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: You don't have to pay me.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_04: I just need to find you and like your friends so that you can go work for this group.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: And everybody's happy at the end of the day.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's so interesting.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: This is so interesting.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I have uh you're you're bringing okay, so Chris, forgive me, but I'm gonna take a couple, a couple more questions along this line.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: So for if students are listening, uh, how do they get on your list of people?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And can you put Chris and my name on your list of people as well?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_03: Gladly.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Where do the people listening who are like perking up their ears like, hey, there's demand in the mining sector and I'm not aware of it, where do they go to look at prospective jobs so they can get a feel for what the jobs look like?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Or who do they talk to?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: How do students who who don't get a job?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what what what do the students do right now?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: What can they do?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: They can go Google something to find a list of these jobs or get on your list.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: So my list is easy.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, my list basically go to our website, which is mrcrecruiting.com, click on candidates.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: I will send you a couple of things.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: We can put a link in the show notes.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: So there we'll send you a link, but basically go to candidates or jobs.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: There, we have always something that says general registration.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: If our jobs don't look like something that you're interested or qualified for, apply here, and then they have the opportunity to book a call with us.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_04: I would say about 20% of people book a call, but like book the call because if I don't know who you are, you're an invisible name in a list of a lot of people in a database.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: And so book the call, introduce yourself, say hello, tell me that your favorite color is chartreuse and that you ride horses backwards.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like whatever it is, figure out how to stand out.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then I remember that the person whose favorite color is chartreuse and rides horses backwards is also an amazing geoscientist and they want to live in Montana and met like voila six months later.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have a perfect.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so ours is really easy.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: Beyond that, what I would absolutely recommend is like looping in with an association within the mining industry or the area that you're interested in.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so there are a ton.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: And I have a list, it is not exhaustive.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: I'm happy to share that with you guys as well.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: My favorites are AIPG, so Association of International Professional Geologists.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_04: Any state geology association is also great, really inexpensive to join.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_04: Nevada Geological Society is one of my favorites.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: They do like a mailer whenever they have a job, they share it with everybody.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they're very communal and communicative.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_04: SME is a big one.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_04: So Society of Mining and Metallurgical Engineering is a big one.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_04: They have a job board.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's free to look at any of the jobs.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: Googling it, LinkedIn now is pretty robust on the mining side.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_04: So you can kind of look there.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: Let's see.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, AEMA, so American Exploration Mining Association is another one.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_04: There is no job board, but they do have a, do we call it the Early Professional Society, Early Career Professional Society?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so they have a formal mentoring program that you apply to be a part of.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: They try to link you up with 12 professionals.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: So you get one a month for the entire year, and they're cross-disciplines.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: So you're not just getting exposed to a geologist.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: You may have a mining engineer, a marketing person, like all kinds of stuff to broaden that perspective and insulate your network as you move forward.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_04: And it gives you all kinds of great resources internally.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_04: So, and and they're flirting with join a job board.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: So those are just a few, but so there's a there's a there's a wealth of stuff out there, including you know, MRC, your company's website.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, last question in this series, which is yeah, right.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, I'll end, Chris.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is the last one, but I think you'll be on board with this question.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Can you go through the relevant degrees and give us a relative value of them?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is an undergrad degree too little?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is a master's a good degree?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Is a PhD overeducated?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then what do you think of and and how necessary are the licensures, like the state Pennsylvania State Geologist License or Engineering License?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Can you just those basic ones?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what what do you think about those?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't you don't have to have any data, just what's your feeling about like I think that's a really good question.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm gonna go with it to heads.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_04: So I think a bachelor's degree is adequate in a lot of circumstances.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_04: The bigger the company, the more adequate it is.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um wow, okay.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on, hold on.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Great, why, yeah.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're part of a team.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: You're one of many in most instances.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so you're like, Do you have a ceiling then though?
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like you have it, you definitely, but you also have a resource at that point to then perhaps wind up having tuition reimbursement programs or leadership training or other stuff.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna throw out a a name, right?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: So Freeport MacMoran actually is a great initial company to join.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: They have a really robust platform for support for their employees.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_04: And that could be like from adoption assistance to like tuition reimbursement, that, you know, all kinds of really cool stuff.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_04: And and like, you know, not all companies have that.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: So the smaller the company, the less frills and stuff you get, and the more hats you have to wear, which is why I'm saying like you could come out of school with a bachelor's degree, say you get a geology degree, and you're like, I'm gonna go to work and I'm gonna cut cut my teeth and figure this out for a bit.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then perhaps if I have an interest, I can go back to school and focus on something else.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_04: That I think is a great way of doing it.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um if you look and you think like, oh, I want to grow up and be a consultant, the higher the degree, the better.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think a PhD is too much for consulting for, you know, certain really technical areas that are going to write reports or sign off on, you know, important things that companies need, um, specifically for studies or finance or whatever.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: So I think financial institutions that are evaluating mergers and acquisitions or doing due diligence and consulting groups, the higher the degree, the better off.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_04: And all of the acronyms that you can add to your name gives them all credibility.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I would think that that is the area where I would say that those are the most valued.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_04: I think that entrepreneurial companies are often started by PhDs and others because they go such down a rabbit hole that they've got this really interesting thing and then they need to make it happen, right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so we see a lot of startup companies from PhDs that then insulate their team with other people to help them get it to market and other stuff.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that there's a place for everyone.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_04: I think that a bachelor's degree with a PG or any of the other acronyms behind your name is also a really great way of subsidizing that, should you choose not to go back and get a master's or something.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I think he Have to sort of look at the market, but I think that there are some general rules of thumb, and I tried to add those.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: That was a really great answer.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: That was super important.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: I do have a exactly what I was looking for.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have a follow-up on that though, or I don't know, something to tag on maybe.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jesse, you're probably gonna have a thought on this too.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: But Lindsay, if you come out with a bachelor's and and you go work for a company, but you're in geoscience, and then you decide that, all right, I I I feel like I need to go get my master's, that's a difficult thing while you're still working in that field if you're gonna go get a research master's degree, because you have to become full-time again doing that, right?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And take a huge bake and go be an apprentice, you know, a research apprentice.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like would you have to leave the company then and and then go get that?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, that's I guess that's what I'm asking.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: I I think that that's a really relevant question.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I think, again, it depends.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen people, so a good friend of mine, she stepped away from the workforce for almost three years while she finished a master's degree.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, she's a geotechnical engineer and she made it the time to focus on her master's degree.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: She had talked to her company about it, they helped her do some initial classes for it, and then it just became too much.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: And so she said, Look, I'd love to come back.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: And they said, We can't guarantee anything.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: She happens to work for a really big company, and so the hope was there, but there was nothing written in stone.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: And so she took that gamble.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: She did go back to work for the same company, a bit different at that time, but you know, she had that opportunity.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I've seen other people who sort of figure out how to balance the two or get to a point where they can balance that workload with school a bit.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: And I want to go back to a point that you had mentioned really early as I was going on this whole situation.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_04: And you said, well, if they wind up with only a bachelor's degree in a big company, does that give them a glass ceiling?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, Yes.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I also think that often when you're not being mindful of your own future, that you can get pigeonhole.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: The more technical you are, the more you will wind up being siloed into a specific area because they need you.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: Tell them you know all this stuff.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so their ability and willingness to say, like, let's pull this person out, put them through leadership training or make them the manager or whatever that might look like to advance you within the organization, just starts to evaporate.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that's when I start getting calls from, you know, mid-level individuals saying, Hey, I've been doing the same thing for six years and I am either burned out or I want to do something else, but they will not feed in me.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think being mindful of what you want to do and checking in with yourself.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and I tell people, I know every six months feels like a lot, but it's not.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: Go write down in a spreadsheet, just keep in a rolling Excel sheet of all the things that you did.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like you learned a new software, you you helped on a report, like whatever, because that builds your repository of things that you're going to put on your resume at some point.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really easy to forget all of that stuff.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_04: So, like a six-month check-in and just say, like, hey, am I happy?
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_04: What do I need?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: You know, coach yourself through that.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I have something we call it the career reflection worksheet.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: And it just asks you, what are you doing that you love?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: What are you doing that you need support in?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_04: What are you great at, but don't want to do anymore?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like all of those questions that we just don't think to ask.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so is that something you'd be willing to share, Lindsay?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's something you're doing.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I'm happy to share it.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, we could put it on.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really good idea too, Lindsay, because I think that then it's always in the back of your mind.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you know, all right, I'm gonna do this every six months, then um, you're kind of keeping a checklist during that time period too of all right, I need to add this to that.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, and it gets like life gets busy and and you add more complexities and responsibilities.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_04: And like it's really, it's just very simple to put that part in the back of your head.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: And so being the captain of your own fate is really important.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_04: Otherwise, you wind up not creating a network that will support you.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_04: You wind up 10 years down and thinking, like, what have I spent all of my time doing?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_04: And so I really try to advocate for people to advocate for themselves and and do that.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, I was just at a conference last week and we talked about the idea of creating like your own board of directors.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, I love this idea.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love this idea.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Jesse you're you're you are triggering so many like things.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: This is just like the most like uh you know self-reinforcing conversation I've had forever because you're triggering so many things.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: I love the board of directors thing.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_04: Go, like you gotta build it, right?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_04: And so, but this helps you network this like you need somebody that like plays the role of a challenger because you can't be told yes all the time.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, you have a great idea.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you have a great idea.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I hate that.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_04: You need somebody who will challenge you.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_04: You need somebody who understands sort of like your moral, ethical, philosophical standpoint in life that also understands what you're doing and where you want to get to, that will help you get there and say, like, hey, are you checking in?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: You need somebody who will be a champion for you and and rah-rah the whole way forward, even if they know very little about it, because sometimes we all need a pep talk.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so you know, insulating yourself with people that you, you know, like a trust, respect.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then like, you know, the idea of mentors versus sponsors, like having a mentor is somebody that insulates your knowledge in what you're doing.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_04: A sponsor is somebody who sees that amazing part of you may not have anything to do with your functional knowledge, but says, like, hey, Chris is amazing.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we have to get him into this room.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_04: He needs to talk to these people.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: They'd be great for this.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so both the sponsor and mentor and the board of directors, as well as all this other stuff.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like a great way of advocating for yourself and and figuring out what you want to do when you grow up.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is just such excellent advice for people.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I just uh you are uh phrasing it so well and just hitting it.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: You I could clear I I could clearly tell you've done this a lot, Lindsay.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're very good at this because you are just like, I'm just I'm I'm just listening so intensely.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: You you're just hitting all these great things.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a little bit of a backstory on that, Lindsay, that Jesse was just inducted into the Hall of Fame for the local high school that he graduated from.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and he gave a uh a talk uh it was and he incorporated this same language, same idea into his advice for all of the young people that were in the audience.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Build a board of directors.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Chris Chris is on my uh my board of directors, so but also like this can't be like an imaginary board, right?
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like you can't just be like, oh, Chris is gonna be online.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: You have to like go ahead and ask them, like because around that deliberate action like creates this whole thing that kind of is magical.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I don't know that you're nice.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I I think it's nice that people, you know, to have uh to I'd imagine have somebody ask, say, can you be on my board of directors?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, heck yeah, of course I am.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, well, the ask is always the hardest part, and I think for like the the younger you are, you know, the more afraid you are to ask for things, I find, and I certainly was.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's why is that what do you think?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: Why why is that?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_04: Because you don't want to hear no.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's like no thoughts.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Chris goes, oh.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and he's like, oh, I've got to be a little bit more than a lot of people.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've been told no a lot.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you you know, mentioned something earlier, like, oh, they're like so so values-oriented and visionary, and like perhaps like you know, to a point where that's not realistic, but like hearing no and also having values vision, like we just haven't appropriately massaged it out of them yet.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, no, that's right.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: They're not old and cynical yet.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, I I have I I'm I'm sorry to keep following up with this stuff, Lindsay, but you keep bringing up such amazing points.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: You triggered another word for me, which was entrepreneurship and startup, and uh direct this entrepreneurship, um, this energy transition entrepreneurship uh in and innovation minor cluster at Penn State.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so that but this is like a big thing for me.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really important time for like geoscientists to become entrepreneurs and to be involved in this changing landscape.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard from alumni, from uh Penn State geoscience alumni who've gone on to start massive big companies and and do really well for themselves.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard that there's a bit of a ceiling when you compare geoscientists to engineers in getting to that upper management thing, and they their perception is that part of the ceiling is that there's no financial training or no monetary training, no MBAs.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's really our degree, our like hard science degree programs don't really convey that.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they're like the best thing you can do for students is give them a little bit of that.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Does that comport with what you think?
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: And can you add what do you think about the value of an MBA if you're coming out of these like hard science fields?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is an MBA a value add?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, hold on, Jesse.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you mean coming out with what kind of degree coming out and then going to going to get an MBA?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, geoscience mining engineering, something that's like really, you know, uh uh hard science, you know.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, like a bachelor's degree though, are you talking about a bachelor's degree or even a master's?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: You have a master's in geoscience, and you're like, hey, this this energy, you know, this energy transition thing, there's demand for people like me.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good question.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, should I go get an MBA for it or not?
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've heard that question from students before.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: So So I think that the really beautiful thing about an MBA in most cases You have one.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: I do, but like it's probably of less value to me than to somebody with a geosciences background who then wants to run a company.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: And so my argument would be that having lived this experience and gone through an MBA, I already had a business orientation.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so what the MBA did for me was that it challenged my ability to think about business and what it did and build a network of people around me that would ideally be in positions that would help me advance, and so there's that piece.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_04: But when you're coming from a technical orientation at geosciences and engineering, at whatever, NFEA there's a lot of group work, even if you're doing it online.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: So, like that structure of it hasn't changed, but it's giving you a very broad orientation to business.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: And there's nothing wrong with that.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: However, if you're a geoscientist that wants to be in the weeds, don't go get an MBA.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: You'll hate it.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to be a geoscience, you know, person that wants to run their own company, go get an MBA.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: If you want to run a company, a consultancy, if you want to be on a board of directors, if you want to do something outside of that technical function, go get an MBA.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_04: But there are different tracks.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that part of what we've done a poor job of in the mining industry broadly is most of the the contributors are technical in nature.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, there's finance and legal and HR and other stuff, right?
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_04: But like when you're coming out of an engineering or technical background, you may not want to advance to be a leader or a manager.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_04: And we're asking that almost without asking, and usually without giving them the appropriate tools to do that.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: And so it is not a good retention strategy to pre promote a very technical oriented individual who has no interest in leadership just because they're great at what they do into a leadership role, because you will scare off the rest of your team because they are not prepared for that.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_04: And they may even leave because they've been asked to do something that they didn't want to do.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so, one, always ask the question do you want to be in leadership management, dealing with teams?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_04: Are you prepared for that?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_04: And like my soapbox is you don't have to get an MBA to run a company.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: You can absolutely use coaches, you can accelerate that learning curve by insulating yourself with other entrepreneurs and going to different groups to do that.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_04: And so there are a lot of different paths to take.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: So an MBA is not going to secure your fate at one understanding business, which you being great at it, but it may insulate your skill set so that it shortens that that overall curve.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: But I would use lots of resources.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_04: So sorry, I wouldn't understand it.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, that's great.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I I wanna we need to have another, I want to I want to schedule another conversation with you on the podcast here because I I wanted to ask you about all the startups and all that stuff, but that's a conversation for another time.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: We'll leave it on the card.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna get a lot of feedback.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna have a lot of questions um from our listeners, and so uh all right, Lindsay.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a 30-second question, and then I have a question about your podcast.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you have competition?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: You have this like niche little market.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have competition in this space?
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_04: And and the abs and flows, you know, when the market is healthy, then there are more competitors.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's all right.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: But I think I think the rosy part for listeners or those that you know really are your audience is that we have a lot to do.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that there is more of an audience that's recognizing that at this point than we've probably ever had.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so in terms of so true, Lindsay.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't remember the last time.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_02: Never in my life has it has the front page of the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post had mining or geoscience stuff on the front page regularly, weekly, right?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's I think the Wall Street Journal weekly has something about um mining, about actual mining, and not just coal, but like minerals, all sorts of stuff.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: This whole critical minerals thing is is we're becoming popular, Jesse.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're becoming popular for once.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: Chris, you've always been popular.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Don't you say okay.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry to interrupt, Lizzie.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to, you know, hit that point and and because I I agree completely.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_04: No, I I I think that this is this is the moment.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so I have lots of competition and they're all great.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think everybody has a different flair and flavor and approach, etc.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_04: And I unabashedly like tell people that like I'm not the only one and that you should know lots of us, right?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: Because we'll all represent different groups of opportunities, have different methods.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_04: And like this is a very personal thing.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_04: When you deal with a recruiter, you build a relationship.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, that's like from the time they get out of school until like they're on a board of directors or retired or whatever.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so ideally, you like one another.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like I know people's dogs' names and that they have grandkids and all kinds of crazy things.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, it should be personal and it should be a phone call that you look forward to, whether it's every year or every six months, or if you have a question about a salary range that you're considering, or, you know, if your resume still looks valid, or if there's like a new format that you should be using, or if you just simply just want to call and say hello.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: But like these are check-ins that are reasonable and it's not, I would prefer that people do that rather than just call when they need something, or vice versa, where I only reach out when I have something that I think you might be interested in.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so refreshing to hear.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay, I'm not I'm not looking for anything at all.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't anticipate ever being in that position.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: But if I was, I would want you to call you to talk about it, talk about it's going to be uh you know whatever you want to do.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay, so um, you have a podcast.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Or a Tory.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: Very clever.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us the origin story of this?
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yes.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um I didn't want to do it.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: Me neither.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: As all good things start out as.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like push yourself into the uncomfortable areas because you'll find all kinds of opportunity in it.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_04: And this was this was one for me.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so several years ago, my friend Amanda, who does all of our marketing and is amazing, she said, Lindsay, we we gotta do a podcast because getting you to write a blog or getting you to do all these things is like pulling teeth.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, you talk to people all day and they're all interesting and you love it.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_04: So why don't we do a podcast?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_04: So uh about six months ago, we launched Oratory.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_04: It was a fun play on words.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_04: I am clearly not short of words ever.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it seemed to work out.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and neither are most of the people I talk to, especially if you get them excited.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_04: And so ultimately the goal began as a launching point to have interesting conversations about people that were doing things differently and impacting the mining industry in a positive way.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_04: So thought leadership, doing something novel in their career, in their association, in their new company, et cetera.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: But I sort of have reflected here recently and I'm like, man, I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's interesting.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I don't know, I'm not gonna just aim to talk to entrepreneurs, but I do tend to talk to a whole lot of them on the podcast.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but also, you know, the goal is just to get the word out about what we do and how cool it is to as many people as might listen to us.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_04: So we're trying to reach beyond the silo of mining.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if we're doing it yet, but we'll keep trying.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm a I'm a I'm a follower, uh subscriber of the podcast, and uh it's great.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: I I really like the stories.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is it we're running over time here, Lindsay.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: So uh forgive forgive us for just one or two more questions.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: You're good.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm all yours.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, because you kind of have said you've kind of alluded to this.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I think from our view, the industry is changing massively that people know, kind of like we said, people know what geology is a little bit, critical minerals, um, energy transition.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: How has that landed in the industry?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a good Chris and I have this series right now where we're in the middle of a is it's a good time to be a geoscientist.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: Are we right?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good time to be a geoscientist.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are we correct?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's a great time to be a geoscientist.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_04: I think that so statistics, I have them here.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um I just have to find my mouth.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um so global demand and opportunity.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I was on another podcast recently um where we talked about the demand for geosciences, and that was through AIPG.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_04: And it was great fun because I got to listen to all kinds of people who were practicing and who were recruiters and who had all kinds of different bandage points.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so what's the podcast called that you were on?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, it was it was not actually a podcast.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_04: I lied.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_04: So it was a webinar, and I I can find the link, but they put it together and I was, you know, one of six, I think, people contributing.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I pulled all kinds of stuff and just took a like a deep dive.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_04: So global demands and opportunities.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_04: So lithium is expected to increase by 40 times the demand for it, nickel and cobalt by 20, graphite by 25%.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, all critical minerals.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_04: I think some people would argue that lithium is not a critical mineral, but we'll just leave that.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um so we have an increase in all of these different areas.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_04: And so, one, that all of those will take geosciences to support.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_04: But more specifically, what we then said was that in the US that we're expecting a 5% growth from 2023 to 2033.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that 5% doesn't feel like a lot, but it's a lot when you look at the like the scope of the mining industry.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so I don't have a number on that.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_04: However, there are over 10,000 job vacancies focused on geosciences in Canada at present.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_04: 10,000.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_04: 10,000.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_04: And those are between like energy resources, mineral, you know, development, environmental, academic research, engineering geology.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_04: So like broadcross spectrum, but like all of those will contribute in whatever fashion is needed from you know, all kinds of really interesting geosciences areas.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: So those are probably my hard statistics, but you know, those are optimistic.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_04: And from my practice, I I probably in the last year there hasn't been a time where I haven't had a geosciences role on the roster.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_04: And they're some of the hardest for us to fill.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's a good thing.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's okay.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's say that again and say more.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_02: Please say that again and say more.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_04: So it could be exploration geologists.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_04: Right now we have several geosciences roles from entry level through like a principal level at a consulting group, geotechs, we have hydrogeology, hydrology, all of those sorts of areas.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_04: And they're the hardest ones for us to fill.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why is that?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_04: Geoscientists, I find, really like working in teams.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: And if they don't, they own their own consulting group, they do this by themselves.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_04: And so while I'm supporting in this situation a consulting group who's looking for all of these things at present.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_04: So if you go to the website, you will see that we have basically from entry level through principal level in all these different areas.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we need them all.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's hard for us to find them because they don't tend to go on to job boards, they aren't always on LinkedIn, they sort of just like dig in.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_04: And it's really hard to unearth them.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna use good mining pens.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so it's a challenge, and they all know one another.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_04: And so for us to reach out is sort of like they've already heard from six of their friends that this company is looking.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just have to figure out how to talk to geosciences better.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's so that is so interesting.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_04: But also there aren't enough of them.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's true.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: We need to make we need to start making more.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about this, Chris and I talked about this before.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: The ri the geoscience degree, you know, number of degrees has gone like this.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it is down to the right over the last decade.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, every time that's happened in history, it's gone back the other direction, and geologists have made more money when you're in demand, right?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's good to hear.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: Reinforcing more of our ideas, Chris.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: So that's good.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Lindsay, do do in general, do geoscientists earn a good living?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um so looking at a variety of industries, and I don't have the statistics in front of me, Mercer, Hayes are two big groups that do big broad scoping studies.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_04: And mining continuously ranks at like the 99th percentile for you know earnings.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_04: And that cuts across basically any technical field within the group where uh they are less competitive, interestingly, is in the C-suite and executive level because those sort of taper off.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_04: So what we've seen over the last few years, which I find really fascinating, probably this is like my own thing that I look at just because I see it all the time, is we've seen all of these sort of technical contributors get to very high salaries because of the demand and their technical expertise in whatever commodity it might be, and that they're edging against the leadership and the executive level salaries of their organizations.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so there are major parity issues because they're hitting, you know,$200,000,$250,000 a year plus incentives and bonuses at the top end or in any very specialized area.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's pricing them right at executive level.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_04: And so the C-suite and the executive teams are saying, like, well, we need raises, but like we we can't justify it.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_04: And so um, yeah, it's been sort of a pinch point.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it because Chris, I know talks deals with this.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: He's he's a very good teacher, very passionate teacher who has a lot of of students who want to go into geosciences.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a little bit of pushback, especially in you know, growing up in uh where we grew up in south rural southwest Michigan, there's no geoscience industry really.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there is it's environmental consulting, but there's no mining sector, there's no hunk ass really there.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so people are like, you want to do what with your life?
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_04: You want to go be so there's so those putting actually I'm glad you mentioned actual numbers because I think Well, and even like, you know, something perhaps more relevant because like you know, that seems like a pipe dream for many.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like, oh my God, I can't imagine making that kind of money or like being that advanced in a career.
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_04: But like right out of school, we're easily seeing without any experience,$75,000,$90,000 with a bachelor's degree right out of school.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we find that the salaries tend to be escalated a bit in the southwest, and that they're they're slightly less in the southeast and and certainly in the southern United States.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then we've started to see some just you know differences between the US and Canada, um, where they were always on par with one another.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's about 25% difference, and that's about the difference between um our currencies at this point, too.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_04: So that's compounding it a little bit.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: That is great.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Chris, what do you think?
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_02: Should we should we uh kind of wrap it up here?
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what we guys yeah, go ahead.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: First, we have to ask uh Lindsay how how our listeners uh can find out more about you.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_04: Probably LinkedIn and our website are the are the best sources.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_04: So um LinkedIn, Lindsay Schultz, MRC Recruiting, our website is Mrrecruiting.com.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_04: That gives you every possible way of finding me.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_04: So those are both great resources, and I'm happy to have the conversation with anybody, as is my team.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: So there's a small group of us, but make the call and and send us a general registration or LinkedIn hello, and we'll be happy to say hi and share knowledge and learn about you and what you want to do.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_02: That is a very kind, very kind offer, and I encourage people to take you up on that.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Lindsay, do you attend a lot of conferences like PDAC?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you tend to frequently attend these conferences, roundup, things like that?
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I do.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_04: And it's sort of nature of the beast for me, but it gives me the opportunity to get baset time outside of you know podcasts and Zoom meetings and things like that on a daily basis to like actually see people.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I hate to say that it seems like it's one a month, but it's like one a month this whole day.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's a lot.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot, yeah.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Feels like a lot sometimes.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it does.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're we're our researchers getting into the uh economic, you know, critical minerals stuff like a lot of people are becoming more societally relevant, stuff like that.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I've got a bunch of plans to go to those big um or you know, those big mining exploration conferences over the next year.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll I'll send you an email or give you a call, better.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when uh when I've scheduled that.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_02: I would love it.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Lindsay, this has been an amazing conversation.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so thankful for your time here.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_02: We just have one final closing question that we always ask.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_02: What has been your best day in your case in mining?
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or on the job?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_04: I love that question.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_04: I have a lot of best days, but one of my favorite wins that I think might be relevant and and sort of salient with with at least the audience here.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Several years ago, I was at a conference.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_04: I went to a student luncheon and like they sat a professional person, they call us professionals, I wonder why.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_04: But I was you know, ahead of a table and all of the students asked questions.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: One of the students was an individual, you know, that was just launching into her career.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_04: So she had just graduated with a bachelor's degree.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_04: She's a mining engineer and was looking at getting her first job.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_04: So, fast forward several months, she had followed up on LinkedIn, said, like, hey, nice to meet you, et cetera.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna just reinforce all of our points here.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_04: Nice to meet you, it'd be great to stay in touch, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_04: I knew the company that she had gone to work for.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_04: I was like ecstatic that she was with this great team, etc.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_04: She sends me an email down the line and says, Hey, I would love to just get some reference points for a base salary for somebody that does my role in this commodity, in this location.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_04: Is that something that you might be able to help with?
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, sure.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_04: I can pull some salary reports and and other, you know, people that are in the database that might have that because we always ask and we just keep tabs on it.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I sent her a bunch of relevant points and and sort of packaged it up.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I didn't hear anything from her for a while.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_04: And it was maybe two months later, it was like after holidays or something like that.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_04: So she had gone in to her annual performance review and did her thing and then said, Hey, I think I'm underpaid.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_03: And here's some information pieces.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_04: This is where they're from, this is what I'm doing, and really did a beautiful job of advocating for herself and backed it up with data.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_04: And they gave her the largest raise that they've given anybody in the history of the company and bonus.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_04: And she called and sent a nice little, you know, email being like, hey, thank you for your help.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_04: And it was a great win.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm happy, you know, I didn't place her.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_04: We just got to be in touch.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_04: And like, I think that this is the power of utilizing a network or your board of directors or however you want to call these people in your life.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_04: But like, we all need support at some point.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_04: But she did a great job doing it for herself, and I love that.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_04: And so it's one of my favorite stories.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_02: That is a great story.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's fantastic.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: I love that one.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, Lindsay, thank you so much.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: This has been uh really informative and inspiring, and I I love your insights.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love, I mean, if you'd be willing, but love to do it again sometime, especially if we get a bunch of listener questions to talk about.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm happy to love to talk more, but I'm gonna do that.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_04: And you guys will have to come on oratory.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like this will be fun to flip the script.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Happy.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Then I need to ask all the questions.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, here we go.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that sounds great.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds great.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a real pleasure.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for your time, Lindsay.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you both.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_04: It was such a pleasure to be here.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_04: I appreciate it.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you, Lindsay.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, that's a wrap.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can follow us on all the social media.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're at Planet Geocast.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can go to our website, planetgeocast.com.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_02: We have a contact us link there where you can send us an email.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: You can also download our Camp GeoMobile app, first link in your show notes.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: There you can get access to all of our visual podcast series, including the intro-level geoscience.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_02: If you're inspired by this episode, if you're inspired to go learn about geoscientists, that's a pretty good place to start.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you can head there and leave us a comment, subscribe, a like, and a review.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I am fired up.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Me too, me too.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk about how fired up we are.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Cheers.