Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / Gertrude Baniszewski; the Monster Mom of Indianapolis

Transcript

Gertrude Baniszewski; the Monster Mom of Indianapolis · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:20
  Everybody in serial killer country.
• 0:22
  My name is Brittany. Ransom, and my name is Brian
• 0:24
  Joiner. And this is when Killers got
• 0:26
  caught, a podcast devoted to deep dives into the lives and
• 0:29
  psyche to the Jurors. We love to learn about each
• 0:31
  week, Brian, and I will find a True Crime Story that resonated
• 0:33
  with us and then I'll discuss one, well-known or lesser known
• 0:36
  killer, and go deep into their childhood lives methodology.
• 0:39
  And most importantly, how they got caught and then we'll get a
• 0:43
  little spooky and learn something about the Cryptids or
• 0:45
  the supernatural. But to start us today, Brian has
• 0:49
  an update on one of his earlier story.
• 0:51
  This is yes! Oh my God!
• 0:53
  From episode to episode 2, episode 2, that was the hands
• 0:58
  that resistant. Hands that resist them.
• 1:01
  Yes. So I think this past week we got
• 1:04
  an email from a viewer. We want to say their name or I
• 1:08
  don't know if I'm I don't know if the first name.
• 1:11
  Yeah. That's Michaela.
• 1:13
  All right Kayla. Hi.
• 1:15
  So they emailed us and told us that there is a new painting out
• 1:19
  by William Stone him right now they came out 2021 and it's
• 1:25
  cold, what remains a Google this.
• 1:28
  Now here I got re-welded pulled up.
• 1:29
  Up for you and everything. So you look at it right?
• 1:32
  I remember a Michaela's email, she said something about the
• 1:35
  doorway just looking ancient now.
• 1:37
  Just looks like there's the doll legs at the top.
• 1:40
  This just looks like a demon stare when you write it looks so
• 1:43
  freaky. This doesn't look like anything
• 1:45
  related to like the boys gone. All that's left are his shoes
• 1:49
  that might be his head on the ground.
• 1:50
  Those legs are dying, legs are dangling.
• 1:53
  There's a battery on the ground. This is brutal fan.
• 1:57
  It's a cool picture. I mean Stoneham.
• 2:00
  Is a very good painter in general.
• 2:01
  Yes, definitely. But I just like, I saw the, the
• 2:04
  picture I'm going to painting and I was like, oh, I got to
• 2:07
  talk about this. That's amazing.
• 2:09
  That like we talked about that. What?
• 2:11
  Like January 14, I believe so yeah.
• 2:14
  No, like 87 is Shailesh month later.
• 2:17
  Look, people, when they start listening to us.
• 2:19
  They listened from the first. No ice.
• 2:22
  But here's the thing. Okay, so anyone listening now,
• 2:24
  I'm kind of embarrassed about the first just a little bit.
• 2:27
  Yeah, I remember the first time we finished.
• 2:29
  Was just like, we're done so scared.
• 2:35
  I think I was just speaking of mile-a-minute.
• 2:37
  That's why I like Yeah, once you get into like are what our teens
• 2:42
  or stuff like that and I feel like by March we had a good
• 2:45
  Groove. Yeah, whenever we got this new
• 2:47
  setup and then we got hurt. Yeah.
• 2:48
  When once we got our groove going and we got one of our
• 2:52
  reviews says that by like three or four, we're doing a
• 2:55
  considerable battle job. The problem was there were a
• 2:57
  couple of technical snafus yes, in the early, like the ayats and
• 3:03
  people complained about like the volumes not being right?
• 3:06
  And I was too loud. I was too quiet, sometimes I was
• 3:09
  true. I'm always quite so.
• 3:13
  But yeah, so that's pretty cool. That's not even our true crime
• 3:17
  news for the week. We got loads of other stories,
• 3:19
  but before we go, there, just covering a little bit of our
• 3:22
  business basis. Our patreon is live and thank
• 3:25
  you so much to our three patrons now.
• 3:27
  Yes, we have four tiers that range from $5 a month up to $50,
• 3:31
  and you can get everything from the wonderful conspiracy Crypt
• 3:36
  episode, which is a 30-minute episode of us discussing.
• 3:39
  In random conspiracy theories that we like, we don't like, who
• 3:42
  knows and that goes all the way up to getting to have a
• 3:45
  conversation with Brian. And I, at the end of the month,
• 3:48
  yes, you can sign up for that at patreon.com slash when Keller's
• 3:54
  got caught. And you may also check out our
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  merch on when Killers. Get caught.com click on the
• 4:00
  store. There are stickers, hats, crop
• 4:02
  tops. Regular t-shirts.
• 4:03
  We carry things up to a 5 x because I love inclusivity.
• 4:07
  So if you want to support us, that is the easiest way.
• 4:10
  Oh and we do have a patron goal which is that if we get 500
• 4:14
  patrons, I'm going to say before the end of the year, I will
• 4:18
  allow Brian to take me to the Lizzie Borden house and sleep in
• 4:23
  the most haunted room and participate in a ghost story.
• 4:26
  Will even live srimant for you on Tick Tock.
• 4:28
  It'll be I swear we great. You guys check it out just by
• 4:31
  100. I'm so not looking forward to
• 4:34
  that. I know it's gonna happen but you
• 4:36
  know. Hey, We'll see, we'll see.
• 4:39
  But this week in True Crime, I want to let you all know about a
• 4:44
  story that has been unfolding over the last few.
• 4:51
  Well, okay, so the post poped up on Facebook August 12th and at
• 4:58
  8:30 p.m. and it says archived content.
• 5:02
  It was incredible Crime Story unfolding now, in South City
• 5:05
  eight days ago, a woman named Elizabeth Elizabeth Cook
• 5:08
  attempted to steal a man's car and Marine.
• 5:10
  Villa, he caught her in the ACT, she ran away and she dropped her
• 5:14
  cell phone. So when the police were called,
• 5:17
  he tried to give her phone to the cops to, like help find her,
• 5:21
  right? But the cops were like, no, no,
• 5:22
  no, we don't need it. Well, I don't want it, it's her
• 5:25
  phone, right? Well, the man goes in and takes
• 5:28
  over her Facebook account begins, posting hundreds of her
• 5:32
  text messages emails photos, and they all have detailed.
• 5:37
  Criminais Ting, criminal evident that the cops and one, yes
• 5:41
  planning and executing dozens of thefts around South City and st.
• 5:46
  Louis, we wait. So you don't even lock your
• 5:50
  phone. Apparently she didn't some of
• 5:53
  the property has been recovered. Thanks to these posts, not to
• 5:58
  mention. They contact you like he used
• 6:02
  the phone numbers to contact some of her accomplices who are
• 6:06
  like, what are we talking about? We don't know who this is.
• 6:09
  He looked up. He looked up her Google history
• 6:11
  and it had things like how to hotwire this brand name.
• 6:14
  Car. My God, what is the easiest car
• 6:17
  to steal? Wow, find something worse.
• 6:22
  She made friends with a 62 year old ex-con last December, his
• 6:26
  name was Bobby Philips. And so apparently, Only he
• 6:31
  really, really liked her. Bobby.
• 6:32
  And three days later, he wrote a will leaving everything to her
• 6:37
  two more lays later he's dead. And so mind.
• 6:44
  You, he does have a drug overdose at her house.
• 6:46
  Huh, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence right
• 6:51
  now that she might have deliberately spiked some of his
• 6:53
  drinks. There's a screenshot on her
• 6:57
  phone of like his will, and their stuff crossed out, it has
• 7:02
  her address on it. People went to it, it's nobody's
• 7:07
  there. Now, it was like the address was
• 7:10
  like, 155 Kensington Avenue. I don't know where that is.
• 7:14
  I'm like when I saw Kensington, I was like Philadelphia but
• 7:16
  apparently there's a lot of kensington's in the world.
• 7:18
  Yeah. And so the person who wrote this
• 7:21
  was like oh crap. I was there at one point.
• 7:26
  This guy was going to buy that house but somebody else like the
• 7:30
  old guy did on it and beat him and they're like, holy crap,
• 7:33
  like this is the house that so he posted pictures of when he
• 7:36
  walks through that property, like when he was going to buy it
• 7:39
  I'm like, what a small world that's wild.
• 7:41
  But, um, yeah, her her in a wheel thing.
• 7:45
  That sounds a little familiar, right?
• 7:47
  I was just like that doctor. We talked about that shipment?
• 7:51
  Yes. Well, he's the best part, right?
• 7:53
  So, I joined these Facebook groups, there's one called the
• 7:56
  Elizabeth Cook cork board because Facebook is taken down
• 7:59
  her official count. So people have screenshot, this
• 8:02
  is 33,000 members and them and it has a picture of a, the guy
• 8:06
  from, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia pointing to the
• 8:10
  clerk, really? Yeah.
• 8:12
  And they're like trying to connect the dots to all these
• 8:14
  crimes that she did. And then I joined another group.
• 8:17
  That was Elizabeth Court crimes STL cork board and this is this
• 8:22
  group is dedicated to solving the crime and helping the
• 8:24
  victims as opposed to just gawking at the Marvel that is
• 8:27
  this madness offers. If you have any information that
• 8:30
  may be helpful, feel free to reach out to admin and
• 8:32
  moderators. So they have like pictures of
• 8:35
  people that are missing or people who she's dealt with.
• 8:39
  This is just so interesting. That's just sounds wild, like,
• 8:43
  on unlike the situation with Elisa Lam.
• 8:46
  Yeah. The netizens are like solving
• 8:49
  crimes in st. Louis so good.
• 8:52
  Alright, st. Louis, y'all are doing it.
• 8:58
  Oh my God, that's great. But yeah, I was like wow this is
• 9:01
  exciting. No, that's cool.
• 9:04
  Yeah. They're helping solve crimes.
• 9:05
  Yeah, great. Yeah.
• 9:07
  Oh goodness. This with the phone that the
• 9:09
  cops didn't want. Yeah, I guess there would have
• 9:11
  been like a legal situation with them having to like get the
• 9:16
  rights to like unlock her phone legally and warrants and stuff,
• 9:21
  but it wasn't locked male me. No warrants up in here.
• 9:24
  Know if I want a phone and someone like stole my car and
• 9:27
  they left their phone. I'm taking that.
• 9:28
  That's what he did has mine. We'll find her.
• 9:34
  Okay, I don't think they found her.
• 9:36
  But what they are finding is where she like, Stuff she sold
• 9:40
  and where she sold it to a pawn shop.
• 9:42
  She gave it to you, still out there.
• 9:44
  I think she might run around. Listen, I was a bit cook.
• 9:47
  If you're listening, your days are numbered the citizens of st.
• 9:50
  Louis are gonna find you. Please don't listen to the
• 9:54
  spike. We're like hours away.
• 9:57
  It's all good. Oh, goodness.
• 9:58
  But what is your story right? Okay, my story is a little bit
• 10:02
  of a doozy. Okay?
• 10:04
  So this takes place this past week.
• 10:08
  It's like as soon as you said, August 12 hours, like you're not
• 10:11
  doing the same story as I am. Yeah, we cut.
• 10:13
  We've come across that before I know.
• 10:15
  Um, but no, this one happened on August 11th.
• 10:19
  I'm pretty sure you've seen it. It's about my hometown.
• 10:23
  Oh, like a sir. I was gonna do a tick.
• 10:25
  Tock about this. I'm so glad you did.
• 10:28
  I really? I have his picture in my phone.
• 10:31
  I mean, you might as well knows we got it.
• 10:36
  Oh my God. But yeah.
• 10:37
  Okay. So 32 year old man, his name.
• 10:42
  Goodness, got chunky face and he's pretty bald.
• 10:45
  Yeah. His name is Donald Meshi jr.
• 10:49
  He's 32 years old. He is from Lancaster
• 10:51
  Pennsylvania, funny story. There's only reason why I want
• 10:55
  to cover this is because he went to the same middle school is I
• 10:59
  went to and actually same time. Or is he like, wait?
• 11:02
  Watching time. Yeah.
• 11:04
  Oh, he looks mad old. Yeah.
• 11:06
  No. He's hurt you.
• 11:06
  I'm 33. He looks like he's in his 40s.
• 11:10
  See that life of crime, it just it, just making ages.
• 11:12
  Yet here's a little rough, like racism and or just being a
• 11:17
  criminal seems to age you dramatic music.
• 11:19
  So my cousin's know him as he talked to your family.
• 11:24
  I did not. I should have done, I should
• 11:26
  have done it, but it was me no Alameda too long.
• 11:30
  Oh, my God. But yeah, my cousin knows him.
• 11:33
  I think my brother knows him. My sister, probably, too.
• 11:35
  I'm pretty sure I walked across him well.
• 11:38
  Yeah. My people, my family.
• 11:39
  No. Anyway, so that happened on
• 11:42
  Wednesday. Actually, no, not Wednesday.
• 11:46
  Yeah, and I don't know. Okay, so what happens is one of
• 11:51
  his relatives coming over to his house, right?
• 11:54
  So woman, and she Cease this head on a plate, in his fridge
• 12:04
  is sitting on a plate in the fridge.
• 12:05
  So, she, you know, she rushes out of the house, she calls 911.
• 12:08
  She's like, there's a head in my relatives fridge, and it looks
• 12:13
  like another one of my relatives, so cops come over,
• 12:18
  come over and he's like, yeah, so he pulls out the head and so
• 12:28
  he tells them this story. three that At night, he goes into his
• 12:35
  father's room and he sees what he thinks to be a cadaver dog,
• 12:40
  All Laying in his father's bed. And it sounds like his father.
• 12:45
  So he then proceeds to um, To stab said cadaver doll a few
• 12:53
  times for it said, 23 minutes, he stabbed it with a 29 inch
• 13:01
  kitchen knife and then he then proceeds to dismember this
• 13:06
  cadaver doll and he puts the body parts into bags.
• 13:11
  Think he put them in his garage or basement, except for the
• 13:15
  head. They put him in the basement.
• 13:17
  No, he put them all in a basement, everything in the
• 13:18
  basement. But hold on.
• 13:25
  All right he's reacting to the way that I'm staring at him
• 13:27
  right now, hold on, hold on. So the day after he does this in
• 13:32
  this members the body and puts all the body parts in the
• 13:35
  basement, he goes back down, guess the head.
• 13:38
  And then he puts it on a plate and then he puts it in the
• 13:41
  fridge, why? I'm not sure, it doesn't really
• 13:47
  say. But, um, okay.
• 13:49
  So spoiler alert, the body was actually his father.
• 13:54
  Yeah, Donald mess. You senior.
• 13:58
  So it says that he lived at their address since 18 1985.
• 14:03
  Okay. So they're at the house for like
• 14:05
  a while. But yeah, he's someone who has
• 14:11
  hallucinations often. He is someone who has definitely
• 14:16
  been arrested for anger issues. Okay.
• 14:20
  So this is probably a lie. So he was a he was a truck
• 14:23
  driver and one time and then there's one report that says
• 14:28
  that he was I guess he was at a pump, you know, filling up his
• 14:33
  truck and then I guess he had fallen asleep.
• 14:37
  You know, the sleeping in this cab.
• 14:39
  Right? And then one of the jockeys of
• 14:41
  the, you know, the the whatever you want to call it.
• 14:43
  The yard welcome. Oh yeah.
• 14:46
  He knocked on his door, you know, he told him, like wake up.
• 14:48
  You Gotta Move Along. You're out of gas pump, so you
• 14:50
  can't be sleeping here. Ha ha ha.
• 14:53
  So jockey, you know, walks away, then he gets attacked from
• 14:56
  behind by messy and yeah. And he's like, can't you let a
• 15:01
  man sleep? That's what this is, what he
• 15:04
  says, quote, wow. And yeah, so he was you know,
• 15:10
  supposed to be going an anger management.
• 15:11
  Think this happened and 2019. So, so yeah.
• 15:18
  Two years ago. Wow, but yeah, now this thing
• 15:22
  with his father, it just happened.
• 15:24
  This past week, right? This is days ago, somebody sent
• 15:26
  me an e-mail like a tick tock message.
• 15:30
  Yeah. Going like, hey, didn't you say
• 15:32
  you live not far from here? I'm not that close, but yeah,
• 15:36
  it's like 45 minutes away. Yeah.
• 15:38
  Used to live there in the place I like to visit.
• 15:40
  I have friends there. My family is there.
• 15:44
  Oh yeah. Your whole families and that be
• 15:45
  yeah. But yeah, so a woman, it says,
• 15:51
  quote this up, so I got this from Pain life, but it says a
• 15:55
  woman who grew up with Meshi jr. Stop by the crime scene,
• 15:58
  Thursday after hearing the unsettling news, I guess that he
• 16:04
  Good old pain. Yeah, I know, right.
• 16:06
  So she told been lying and she was shocked to hear that mess.
• 16:09
  She who had not talked to her in years.
• 16:11
  Allegedly stabbed someone to death and cut up his body.
• 16:14
  Neighbors are kind of interview. But what I do know interviews it
• 16:18
  is like this just happened and if anything updates on it like
• 16:23
  he's not I guess he's charged with it but he's not like well
• 16:28
  now they have to figure out like is he just a liar as he is
• 16:31
  guilty going? So yeah.
• 16:33
  So, they're doing an investigation right now.
• 16:36
  Many choices. So, as this story update, I will
• 16:40
  keep you guys updated as well or will keep you updated as well on
• 16:44
  this. But yeah, that's my story.
• 16:47
  This week person who went to Junior High with me and my
• 16:51
  family. He was found well, is accused of
• 16:55
  murdering his father and dismembering his body?
• 16:58
  Yeah. Well, there you go.
• 17:07
  When Killers get caught is sponsored by the magic class
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• 18:23
  Brittany that I sent you. Well, sorry that we took so long
• 18:35
  with our story today. I know some people get a little
• 18:37
  annoyed with that. You're still here.
• 18:38
  Thank you so much for listening. And so, one of my sources last
• 18:43
  week, was this, marvelous book called mistresses of Mayhem and
• 18:47
  of course, it's all about women killer.
• 18:49
  Yes, I want to buy it, right? Yeah, because I told you that
• 18:51
  the, I found two copies of the book, one with one last name,
• 18:54
  and one of the other and I, which wasn't sure, which one is
• 18:57
  the current woman's last name, who wrote this right now, one of
• 19:00
  the names is hornberger. And obviously, I use that for
• 19:03
  Reference for the Dorothea Puente case but it's full of
• 19:06
  many other horrible women and as I'm going through this book I
• 19:10
  see this picture and I have seen this woman's face dozens of
• 19:15
  time. I even talked about her crime on
• 19:18
  Tick-Tock, not that long ago. I'm going to show you this
• 19:22
  picture because I'm sure you've seen it too.
• 19:27
  Yes, in that sense, yes, I have the picture of Gertrude
• 19:30
  baniszewski zest key that is a ski we go.
• 19:34
  Mess it up all night. Okay?
• 19:35
  But uh yeah and the thing is I know her story.
• 19:39
  I know the fact that she horrific lie, horribly tortured
• 19:43
  a teenage girl for months on end between like 65 and 66 like
• 19:48
  crossing over the winter time period.
• 19:51
  I know that, you know, her teen children joined in, I discussed
• 19:55
  her. What happened to her Her and her
• 19:57
  children on Tick-Tock who participated.
• 19:59
  Yes, I remember that. But one thing I have never ever
• 20:02
  looked into was, who the hell? This weird lady must be.
• 20:05
  Hmm. And so that was what I set out
• 20:07
  to do was to learn who she was to see if there were any
• 20:10
  redeeming qualities and who she might have been at some point in
• 20:13
  her life, doubt it. You know, I'm gonna allow you
• 20:18
  and our listeners who decide how you feel about her by the end of
• 20:21
  this. All right, thanks to this shitty
• 20:22
  person was not surprising, not surprising.
• 20:26
  But Gertrude businessess. Key was born Gertrude van fossum
• 20:31
  in late September of 1929 to Hue.
• 20:34
  Marcus van Fosston jr. And Molly van fossen and
• 20:38
  Indianapolis Indiana. Just a month before the New York
• 20:42
  Stock Exchange. Would crash and plunge America
• 20:44
  into the worst financial crisis anyone had ever seen.
• 20:48
  She was the third of six children to a mixed-race family
• 20:52
  of Polish and Dutch origin. In a world where no one had any
• 20:56
  money. And there were too many children
• 21:00
  Gertrude was her father's favorite.
• 21:03
  They had so little in terms of resources that he tried to make
• 21:07
  up for it by showering her with like a function.
• 21:12
  Something that kind of faintly ignored her siblings but made
• 21:16
  her mother Mallie feel very threatened.
• 21:19
  Hmm. This was such a big deal in
• 21:21
  their household that Molly would try and separate Gertrude from
• 21:23
  Hugh, even when Gertrude was just a toddler, we're talking
• 21:27
  like two years old. Wow, that obviously did not work
• 21:29
  very well. If you've tried to separate a
• 21:31
  toddler who's obsessed with someone, there's just screaming
• 21:35
  that happened. Yeah.
• 21:37
  So when that didn't work, what Molly started doing was whenever
• 21:40
  he wasn't around. And she would just freeze her
• 21:42
  out. She's wouldn't talk to her at
• 21:44
  all. Why would you not try to build a
• 21:47
  relationship with her and try to get her like, on your side, too?
• 21:51
  I think it's very peculiar when an adult woman is envious of
• 21:55
  children, but it happens all the time especially when people like
• 21:58
  got remarried and stuff. So don't like the behavior of
• 22:01
  the, you know, oh, this person spending more time with his
• 22:05
  daughter than me. I see, like articles, like all
• 22:08
  the time on like, like dating. Websites and on Reddit and like
• 22:13
  right at relationships. So this is fairly common, it's
• 22:15
  just tragic, okay? So Gertrude siblings were like,
• 22:25
  we don't really want to be on the receiving end of this, so
• 22:30
  they decided to sort of side with him, mom, of course.
• 22:35
  And so she very much group, like she was an outsider, which
• 22:38
  didn't have the effect that That they really wanted, because at
• 22:43
  that point, then it was like Hugh was the only person who
• 22:46
  treated Gertrude like she was little person, so she clung to
• 22:49
  him even more. You didn't really understand
• 22:54
  what was happening because when he came home, everything was
• 22:56
  normal. And he didn't really ask his
• 23:00
  wife either. But he just went well, she's
• 23:02
  being extra clingy when I come home.
• 23:05
  So I must mean I need to give her more attention.
• 23:07
  All right? Yeah.
• 23:08
  I mean which is what is the cycle that continued horrific
• 23:10
  lie? That's shitty now.
• 23:15
  Yeah it is Molly, had complete control of her other children
• 23:20
  and she very easily manipulated them into bullying Gertrude.
• 23:25
  So that means that it began to extend from home and to school
• 23:30
  and then the other van. Fosston kids got other kids in
• 23:32
  school to bully her as well. On top of that, the whole
• 23:37
  country is in the middle of the Great Depression.
• 23:39
  He was cycling through jobs very fast.
• 23:43
  He starts drinking to deal with the feelings of inadequacy
• 23:46
  because he's struggling to take care of his family.
• 23:49
  Molly, for some weird reason, blames all of the troubles on
• 23:55
  Gertrude, but she knew that she couldn't do anything overtly to
• 23:58
  her husband's favorite child without making her husband
• 24:01
  angry. Like I said, Gertrude haven't
• 24:06
  pretty terrible childhood, her dad's doing his best to make her
• 24:09
  happy and then pretty much the worst thing that can happen did.
• 24:14
  It's 1940 there in the kitchen and Hugh and Gertrude are
• 24:20
  reading together. She wasn't the best student, but
• 24:22
  she tried and then he falls over and he has a massive heart
• 24:29
  attack. Gertrude begin screaming.
• 24:32
  Molly runs into the Ian and the two witnessed, his death
• 24:38
  eleven-year-old Gertrude. I'm sure knew that things
• 24:43
  weren't going to get better for her because Molly looked her in
• 24:47
  the face and said, what did you do to him?
• 24:50
  Wow. Yeah.
• 24:53
  Come on, hon. So Gertrude was blamed for her
• 24:56
  father's death which is completely irrational and like,
• 25:01
  you know, we've both lost people.
• 25:02
  So you understand that when you're in the throes of that
• 25:04
  kind of grief like that's, is it surmountable?
• 25:08
  It's like hard enough to do regular life things, but then to
• 25:11
  have somebody else going well, it's your fault that person
• 25:13
  died. That's awful.
• 25:17
  So she started having night these night terrors, and without
• 25:21
  Hue to stop, Molly, Molly began beating Her.
• 25:25
  Because her night terrors would wake up the other children.
• 25:31
  That went on for the next three years.
• 25:34
  Well he's not there anymore so you don't have to be jealous of
• 25:36
  her anymore. You can start being nice to her
• 25:39
  but now she's just shifted the anger in a different way.
• 25:42
  You took my husband away from me.
• 25:44
  I didn't do anything once that you can't.
• 25:46
  It's that also ties into the first time to you took my
• 25:49
  husband away from me because he loved you too much.
• 25:53
  I gotta tell you don't, I don't understand it does don't have
• 25:55
  babies if you're going to be jealous of your bag.
• 25:57
  Please, like I said that one on for three years and Gertrude
• 26:02
  kind of lived in this world where her mother either ignored
• 26:04
  her or beat the crap out of her and her siblings were like I,
• 26:09
  yeah, listen, we're just gonna not do anything to help the
• 26:16
  situation Molly is obviously deeply mentally unwell.
• 26:22
  But Doesn't matter at all. Every problem in the house was a
• 26:28
  Gertrude problem to the point where it became a joke among the
• 26:31
  kids wear. Well, first, it started out like
• 26:35
  oh there's not enough food in the house Gertrude's eating too
• 26:38
  much and then the kids started making jokes and like if one of
• 26:42
  them were somewhere else in the house and they like tripped and
• 26:44
  fell, they would like laugh and go like a hog or tripped me.
• 26:48
  Hahahaha is not fucking here. It's Things weren't much better
• 26:54
  but they were bad in a different way at 14.
• 27:00
  She started to have a little bit of like happiness.
• 27:03
  Mmm, this was weird because Molly had done a really good job
• 27:08
  of poisoning. The minds of the other moms and
• 27:12
  their little girls at school would repeat all the rumors that
• 27:14
  Molly told way, wait a second, the moms.
• 27:18
  So she got no, she had other, she would talk and talk shit
• 27:24
  about her daughter. Yes, true.
• 27:26
  And then, the daughters would find out from their moms and I
• 27:28
  will get repeated at school. I'm all right now.
• 27:30
  Okay, wrong so but here's the thing, 14.
• 27:37
  Gertrude's hitting puberty. Mmm.
• 27:40
  And while the little boys were pretty uninterested before then.
• 27:43
  Oh, he hit her hard like a truck.
• 27:44
  Hey, we're very interested in now.
• 27:47
  And unfortunately, this is very much like her getting the
• 27:51
  attention from her father, only from teen boys.
• 27:54
  Oh no, this is, oh God, this is gonna be bad.
• 27:58
  So the boys would be like really interested in her and like lunch
• 28:01
  and want to sit next to her. And the thing is mind, you
• 28:04
  Molly's talking all the other moms, so her their daughters
• 28:08
  would be like, all the boys are focusing on Gertrude.
• 28:11
  So then she would come home and Molly would be like, super upset
• 28:15
  with her. She's like, you're talking to
• 28:16
  boys, you know. Your slut.
• 28:18
  How do you know if someone was your high school and Grocers
• 28:21
  confused, because she's like, what am I doing?
• 28:23
  That's wrong. Other than just talking to
• 28:25
  people who are like jiggling around me.
• 28:28
  Like, if people who want to be my friends, want to be nice to
• 28:31
  me. Teenage boys.
• 28:33
  Were like, yeah, we all know anything yet.
• 28:39
  It's me. Oh, God Somali would yell at her
• 28:44
  about being seen with boys. I'm like at this point, Gertrude
• 28:49
  knows. Absolutely nothing about sex.
• 28:51
  She understand why her mom was mad at her but at this point
• 28:54
  like she just didn't care. She's like, what are you going
• 28:57
  to do to me? Molly beat my ass some more.
• 28:59
  Mmm. So yes it progressed with the
• 29:05
  boys and very quickly Gertrude is very popular with them and
• 29:09
  the same girls who are with who whispered about her in the
• 29:11
  hallway for the last, like five years are now, kind of worried
• 29:15
  that girl truths gonna steal your boyfriend because Gertrude
• 29:18
  will let the boys touch her under her shirt.
• 29:21
  Oh, And the thing is she's never was a great Beauty.
• 29:27
  Okay. And she didn't have a whole lot
• 29:30
  of a personality, because she lived virtually and isolation in
• 29:33
  her house inside, right? Yeah, like I said she left the
• 29:37
  boys touch her and she touched them.
• 29:40
  It's still pretty chased. In my opinion honestly like it
• 29:43
  14. You're just touched a little
• 29:45
  boobies. Like that's really not the
• 29:46
  worst. But rumors that she was doing
• 29:51
  way, way, way more. We're obviously spreading
• 29:54
  because that's a high school. Works course.
• 29:56
  The teachers were like talking about her like oh, she's
• 29:58
  definitely gonna get Knocked Up, you know how they talk.
• 30:02
  And the worst part here is like the rumor mill, actually, only
• 30:05
  made her life better because not only was it like, the, The
• 30:09
  Freshman boys, but now, the rumor was that she was the girl
• 30:12
  who would go all the way. So the older boys started
• 30:15
  talking like, looking at her and she had even more attention on
• 30:18
  her. Yeah.
• 30:20
  So at 15 Gertrude start dating pretty much her mom's like
• 30:24
  you're forbidden. Like you can't do that and she's
• 30:27
  just like I can do it. I want to have fun.
• 30:31
  Some of the boys or men who would come to pick her up range
• 30:35
  from the ages of 17 to 23 unsurprisingly because the only
• 30:41
  positive relationship she's ever had, was with an older man.
• 30:44
  She was drawn to older men and they were drawn to her because
• 30:47
  of what everybody was saying about her, which wasn't true,
• 30:50
  and that's why the next section is awful.
• 30:53
  Great. So Gertrude 16 she drops out of
• 30:56
  school packs of a couple things of the house and gets married.
• 31:00
  A man named John Ben has house key, they'd only been dating for
• 31:03
  a few months. They had done virtually nothing
• 31:06
  together. This was pretty much the only
• 31:09
  option you have in 1945. If you want to start a new life,
• 31:13
  find a man somewhere else. Hmm, their wedding was super
• 31:16
  small. It only had John's family.
• 31:19
  Gertrude really didn't have many friends and her mother was so
• 31:22
  loud about how she didn't approve of John.
• 31:25
  So she wasn't invited. How old was he?
• 31:27
  He was 18. Okay. 926.
• 31:30
  No, he was not one of the super old one, got it.
• 31:33
  So he was also a police deputy and Indianapolis and although he
• 31:38
  wasn't making a lot of money. The local bank was like, you
• 31:42
  know, he's a cop will give him the loan.
• 31:43
  So they got a house and moved into a nice little Suburban,
• 31:48
  home on the edge of Indianapolis and they went on a honeymoon in
• 31:52
  Ohio, I just got to tell you oh hi is not what I think of when I
• 31:58
  think of a honey. No, Ohio.
• 32:01
  But you know what? Maybe Cleveland was you know, we
• 32:03
  love Ohio, even was a little bit better than you.
• 32:06
  You know, how does the greatest? I mean I have my constant there
• 32:10
  so you know, there's a big, the music festival.
• 32:12
  Yeah, so that's there's, that's why I label Heil, but okay.
• 32:16
  Well very quickly after their honeymoon, thanks began to sour.
• 32:20
  Gertrude didn't know how to be a wife.
• 32:23
  Let alone a housewife. She had been taught almost
• 32:27
  nothing from her mother other than how to like clean.
• 32:30
  She couldn't cook and worst of all for John.
• 32:33
  He had heard all these raunchy tales about Gertrude being this
• 32:38
  sexual minks and she was not experienced it all there.
• 32:43
  Usually, you do this and that and this and that and know who I
• 32:46
  don't know what you're talking about.
• 32:47
  What's that? Well, so she did know how to
• 32:51
  clean like I said, because her mom for sure to clean
• 32:53
  everything. So then she would get mad
• 32:55
  because John will come home and he would just, like, throw his
• 32:57
  stuff everywhere because he's a teenage boy.
• 33:00
  And so they're having arguments about different things.
• 33:04
  So they're having like, she's arguing about him being messy,
• 33:08
  he's like you suck at sex and you also cook awful.
• 33:14
  He's like, you can't cook at all.
• 33:16
  What's wrong with you? My God, they've been together
• 33:18
  for a year now. He's like, she's a terrible
• 33:20
  wife. He's like, I have been sold a
• 33:23
  bill, terrible Goods. I've been so so many lies.
• 33:29
  He's laying. He is.
• 33:30
  Stand on the throne of Lies. Oh my God.
• 33:34
  The SEC situation only got worse because here's the thing.
• 33:37
  So Gertrude's family was hyper really like super religious
• 33:40
  which is very common of the time in the early 1900's in America.
• 33:44
  So she's like sex is a mortal sin and so she very much began
• 33:48
  to look at it like it was a chore in her marriage so that
• 33:51
  she just had to do. And the thing is, when she was a
• 33:56
  teenager, she was clumsily touching other teenagers.
• 34:02
  John's not a teenager at this point, he's 19.
• 34:06
  Okay, he had some experience before they got married, he was
• 34:11
  expecting to get something better than he got before.
• 34:13
  Sir. Just teach her what you know in
• 34:15
  your good to go. Well, the other issue is that
• 34:17
  like when I say she thought it was a mortal sin, he was
• 34:20
  expecting some level of. Like I'm interested in being
• 34:23
  here from her. He is not interested.
• 34:25
  She's just like I have to do this because this is my this is
• 34:29
  what God Said, I have to do, my report should make a baby.
• 34:32
  Yeah, so he's like I've been hoodwinked Bamboozled and he
• 34:37
  like openly lets her know that he's not happy, which only makes
• 34:41
  her want to have sex Less. In fact, she would remain almost
• 34:46
  motionless while they will. Call it make love really.
• 34:53
  It became a situation where John just sort of used her body and
• 34:56
  then went to sleep. If and if she denied him Then he
• 35:02
  would probably punch her in the face.
• 35:05
  So he got either. I'm just gonna lay here and let
• 35:09
  it happen or her being like, please let me go to sleep and if
• 35:12
  she didn't, he would hit her and then she would just be like,
• 35:15
  fine, whatever do it you're going to do.
• 35:18
  And then those beatings continued out of the out of the
• 35:23
  bedroom specifically, whenever he said that she annoyed him,
• 35:30
  which could be anything. Literally, anybody can do you
• 35:34
  for anything? God.
• 35:37
  Well, And then she got pregnant. Hooray.
• 35:42
  You don't have to have sex for a while.
• 35:44
  That is exactly it. So the to begin to go through
• 35:46
  this periods of happiness and also struggle when virtue was
• 35:51
  pregnant. She began to focus on like the
• 35:54
  nutrition for her in the baby so she started cooking better.
• 35:58
  Oh great. And then she would clean the
• 36:01
  house constantly regardless of what he did.
• 36:04
  Because she said that she learned that you know, newborns
• 36:07
  can get infections really easy. Ali.
• 36:09
  So she was like hyper cleaning the house cooking like these.
• 36:12
  Excellent meals. John's like this seems.
• 36:17
  Alright. Then the baby's born and John's
• 36:21
  like oh she doesn't want to like deal with me at all.
• 36:24
  Now she's focusing all of her attention on the baby.
• 36:30
  Baby. Girl Paula.
• 36:32
  And so almost in a weird ironic way.
• 36:35
  There's the same kind of jealousy, so it's just reverse.
• 36:39
  Yeah. But in reverse and pretty much
• 36:43
  the only time John wouldn't beat her was when she was pregnant,
• 36:46
  and she spent most of the next decade of their relationship
• 36:49
  pregnant. Mmm.
• 36:52
  Finally, she got pregnant four times finally.
• 36:55
  She divorced him in 1955 and she got married to a man.
• 36:59
  Named Edward Guthrie, a few years later, he was unemployed
• 37:04
  and very into the fact that Gertrude was getting a very
• 37:07
  large child support stipend for for kids Edward, actively hated
• 37:13
  her children. So you, yeah, you love the
• 37:17
  money, but you hate to kids so much so that after he got a job,
• 37:23
  he moved out three months after they got married, and he stood
• 37:27
  in the courtroom and told the judge, I don't like the kids.
• 37:32
  That's why we're getting a divorce.
• 37:34
  Wow, and she was just like, you know what?
• 37:37
  Fine go. Wow, he's good chillin.
• 37:43
  You know. Things are things are doing, all
• 37:47
  right. one day, Gertrude's walking around town, and she
• 37:53
  sees John, and she's just like, well, you know, I suppose you
• 38:01
  could come hang out you know the kids do like seeing you mmm so
• 38:05
  he visits more often now she's a lot more experienced after
• 38:11
  having been single for a little while I'm sure she is.
• 38:14
  So he's a little happier in that department.
• 38:16
  Oh hang out those you should have quote it started out with
• 38:23
  the kids being like really excited to see him and like sure
• 38:25
  you can come have dinner with us and be around the children and
• 38:28
  then the children go to sleep and Then we want to come stay
• 38:31
  with me, then it became John moved back in and got the hang
• 38:35
  out hang out. They got to hang out, hang out.
• 38:38
  They would have drinks and she would show him her new tricks
• 38:41
  and and they got married again. Oh God, okay, things were going,
• 38:49
  all right. he was like, we have these four kids were good, but
• 38:54
  obviously, In like, you know I'm going to say like the late 50s
• 39:03
  we were real good with contraception.
• 39:07
  I mean for real people aren't very great at now.
• 39:09
  This is true she got pregnant again.
• 39:15
  But she also had that she had a miscarriage.
• 39:19
  She did not handle that. Well, and John was not very
• 39:24
  supportive because they had stopped having sex, but they had
• 39:28
  stopped having sex because she was depressed.
• 39:31
  Yeah, they started to hit her again.
• 39:35
  She got pregnant. Again, this happened seven for
• 39:39
  seven more years. She's get depressed.
• 39:42
  Get pregnant, feel better. The cycle would go on during the
• 39:46
  seven years ago, they did have two more children this time
• 39:50
  though. John filed for divorce.
• 39:51
  He was like yeah, you know what? This was a bad idea.
• 39:55
  It only took you seven years buddy, but whatever, you know
• 39:58
  those are for the sex and sex was great.
• 40:00
  It must have been listening, Gertrude busted.
• 40:03
  Hit him with that wall because that's how I.
• 40:07
  Yeah. But now she's single with six
• 40:11
  children. It's 1963.
• 40:14
  She's 37 years old. She has no income outside of her
• 40:18
  child support and she's becoming slowly very unstable.
• 40:22
  She can't seem to hold a job herself.
• 40:24
  She can't afford the mortgage payments, then she meets this
• 40:27
  man named Dennis, right. And he's 22 years old and
• 40:31
  married at the time. She was a lot older than him and
• 40:36
  she definitely abused the crap out of that.
• 40:39
  Oh, the day that Dennis is wife moved out of his house Gertrude
• 40:47
  moved in with all six kids. Mmm-hmm, Dennis was an alcoholic
• 40:54
  prone to outbursts, but he was very happy with sacks.
• 41:00
  And he was like, you know what, who cares.
• 41:02
  I'll pay for this. Big-ass family, I'm getting laid
• 41:04
  like crazy the house, but the problem was actually a couple
• 41:09
  weeks. The house, never got cleaned
• 41:12
  and, and Dennis was kind of freaked out because she was
• 41:15
  getting kind of weird and terms of her emotional place in life.
• 41:20
  So, he actually plans like this elaborate Escape, like, it was
• 41:23
  like a month. He was like, all right, listen,
• 41:25
  he's like if I try and break up with her, she's just going to
• 41:27
  try and seduce me and like, then I'm gonna be stuck with her some
• 41:31
  more so um, one night, he comes home and the kids are nowhere.
• 41:42
  The house is spotless. Dinner is a maid.
• 41:45
  They have a nice meal, they go upstairs, they have sex.
• 41:50
  And she's like, hey you know, have you thought about like a
• 41:55
  family with us in the future and he's like, I don't want kids,
• 41:57
  what are you talking about? You have six kids, we got enough
• 42:00
  kids and she says, to him pretty much how you should have thought
• 42:04
  about that before. Oh, she pregnant.
• 42:07
  Yeah, up. And that is also the first night
• 42:09
  that Dennis hit her He actually beat her to the he tried to make
• 42:14
  her Miss Carey. This was like a brutal beating.
• 42:17
  What is wrong with your whole look.
• 42:20
  But I guess that wasn't on that aside because she did have a
• 42:25
  baby nine months later. Oh my God and she named him
• 42:27
  Dennis Junior. And when she returned home from
• 42:31
  the hospital Dennis right? Senior was gone.
• 42:37
  You not just gone but completely vanished you could have done
• 42:41
  this before. Yeah like doll of hitting her.
• 42:45
  Hey Maritza like 1960 link are you know, it's like 60 you know
• 42:51
  okay well two times social and done it anyway.
• 42:54
  It's Irish and If she tries to tell people, she's a widow.
• 43:00
  Hmm she she tries to tell people that she's trying to tell come
• 43:07
  up with any story. They do.
• 43:09
  We got married. He's just gone for a little
• 43:11
  while but the problem is like she's really struggling like I
• 43:13
  think that cycle of having the constant miscarriages did
• 43:18
  something to her brain. I can only imagine how many must
• 43:25
  have happened. So it got to the point where
• 43:31
  sometimes she'd be telling people stories about Dennis and
• 43:34
  mid-conversation she would change while he was gone and she
• 43:38
  didn't realize she was doing it. And probably the nicest thing
• 43:44
  that happens in this entire story, the neighbors realize
• 43:49
  that she definitely is incapable of keeping a job at this point.
• 43:53
  And they suddenly are like, you know, what Gertrude you have all
• 43:57
  those kids. You're really good with kids.
• 43:59
  Can you watch our kids and hey Gertrude?
• 44:02
  Your house is always really neat.
• 44:04
  I see your laundry. It looks so nice.
• 44:06
  Do you want to come help me with my laundry?
• 44:08
  I'll pay you. That's nice and yeah, pretty
• 44:10
  much her. A come up with a plan to help
• 44:12
  fund all of these children because they know that she
• 44:15
  cannot do it. She babysat.
• 44:20
  She washed clothes at 1967. She has seven children.
• 44:26
  Total Paula who 17, Stephanie 15?
• 44:30
  John 12, Marie 11. Surely 10 James 8, and Dennis
• 44:35
  Lee, right? Junior, who is one John's child
• 44:39
  support payments. Are not coming as often as they
• 44:43
  should have been. Hmm, because he got mad after he
• 44:46
  heard about her. Fling with a younger man and my
• 44:51
  movie buddy. And during this time, Paul is
• 44:54
  oldest daughter. I mean Gertrude oldest daughter.
• 44:58
  Paula becomes kind of the matriarch of the family.
• 45:02
  Her mom is fully breaking down at this point.
• 45:06
  I Gertrude is chain-smoking. Barely eating losing Her
• 45:11
  connection to what is real. Her hair is receding, do to just
• 45:16
  know nutrition. Her eyes are sunken in and to
• 45:22
  Paula, it seemed like Gertrude was pretty good with being
• 45:26
  miserable. She would monitor, or the only
• 45:29
  reason why she monitored her children was that she didn't
• 45:32
  want them to get pregnant. That was like her biggest fear
• 45:36
  and something she began to fixate on like you can't go with
• 45:39
  boys. You're going to get pregnant
• 45:40
  like one time. I'm I guess like Paulo was in
• 45:42
  her room with a boy, and here's the problem.
• 45:45
  Like with this whole situation with her and the I don't want
• 45:48
  you to get pregnant, she allowed like any kids in the
• 45:52
  neighborhood to hang out in her house and she mainly laid in her
• 45:55
  bed and smoked and drank and did nothing and occasionally, she
• 45:59
  would come out and unluckily for Paula that one day.
• 46:03
  A boy in your room, she had a boy in her room and her mom,
• 46:06
  like burst of the door and it's like centers, like just
• 46:08
  screaming at her. and finally, like Paula's, I like Gertrude's
• 46:15
  like Stop bothering me. Stop cleaning the house.
• 46:23
  Stop trying to make me eat food. Oh wow, I'll let anybody come
• 46:27
  through here. I don't care.
• 46:29
  And so the kids are like Mochi and then there's a situation
• 46:35
  where Paula went out and she ended up in a hotel with a man.
• 46:40
  And after they did the deed, he put his wedding ring back on.
• 46:46
  She did not know and she was very upset.
• 46:50
  Sao Paulo is absolutely pregnant and Turner currently in the
• 46:54
  house with her mom. Trying to hide said pregnancy.
• 46:59
  The house is now the place for every teenager to come and get
• 47:02
  into trouble, even though it is a complete mess.
• 47:07
  This is also the time when Paula meets the like and sisters
• 47:11
  Sylvia. And Jenny, she meets them to one
• 47:15
  of her friends named Darlene. Sylvie is a little bit younger
• 47:17
  than Paula and Jenny and had a, and Jenny is younger than Paula
• 47:24
  has a leg brace from which he had Polio Darlene was out and
• 47:29
  realized that they were pretty much homeless and brought them
• 47:31
  to her house and then convince his Paula to take them with her
• 47:35
  because she's like, well, your mom doesn't Care who's there at
• 47:37
  the house. So this totally works they can
• 47:39
  just hang with you. They all sit in Paula's room and
• 47:44
  Jenny and Sylvia kind of tell them about how like the night
• 47:47
  before. Their mom had them pack up, all
• 47:51
  their stuff and run away from her father.
• 47:53
  Lester Lester had hit mom mom's name is Betty.
• 47:57
  So Betty grab the girls and ran they get to Indianapolis after
• 48:02
  taking a bus and they have no money and so bad.
• 48:05
  He's like okay. I'm gonna go steal something
• 48:07
  from me from the store gets arrested.
• 48:10
  So then Sylvia pulls Jani away because she's like, if they find
• 48:15
  out we're with her and we don't have an adult, we're going to
• 48:17
  just get locked up to. Yeah.
• 48:19
  So they end up just kind of wandering around Indianapolis
• 48:22
  and that's where they ended up meeting.
• 48:25
  Darlene. Sao Paulo is like come with me.
• 48:31
  And she has Sylvia go tell her mom the same story and her
• 48:34
  bedroom Gertrude's leg. Okay, well how about this?
• 48:37
  Stay the night tomorrow, we'll go look around.
• 48:40
  The police will go the police precincts and find out where
• 48:43
  your mom is. True to her word, the next
• 48:46
  morning at like 10:00 11:00 Gertrude's.
• 48:49
  Like, all right, we're going to go find your mom and there's a
• 48:51
  knock on the door. There is Darlene and Lester
• 48:55
  lichens. Who had tracked his wife to
• 48:58
  Indianapolis? Because what happened is that
• 49:01
  when she got arrested, she gave them Lester's.
• 49:04
  Number They had gone. He went to County Jail.
• 49:10
  They reconciled across the glass while they're in prison course.
• 49:14
  I love you. I love you too.
• 49:16
  I'm so sorry. He tells Gertrude I have friends
• 49:20
  who work for a traveling circus and we're going to go work for
• 49:24
  them and make really good money, but we don't want to take the
• 49:26
  girls all around like the area with us.
• 49:29
  So what if we pay you 20 bucks? And they can live here, clean
• 49:35
  books, a day a week. Okay.
• 49:38
  And Gertrude's pretty excited because she's like, huh, $20 and
• 49:41
  cigarette money dope Paula made it seem like she was happy.
• 49:47
  These two girls are going to stay in her room but the real
• 49:50
  issue is that like Paula's hiding a pregnancy and it's real
• 49:53
  hard to hide that from two other girls who are your same age.
• 49:56
  There's things that should be happening.
• 49:58
  That aren't gonna happen. Yeah.
• 50:03
  The first week things are doing are pretty good Sylvia and Jenny
• 50:06
  get set up in the new school year.
• 50:08
  Following the house rules. One day, they come home to a
• 50:14
  strangely Silent House. And I am going to give anyone
• 50:20
  listening the pause. This is the trigger warning,
• 50:23
  pause. I'm not even going to go into
• 50:27
  all of the things that happened to Sylvia Likens.
• 50:29
  From this point forward I'm only going to hit the highlights of
• 50:34
  the next like year of this poor girl's life for folks who don't
• 50:38
  want to listen. There will be liner notes, just
• 50:41
  know that torture happens and it goes on for quite a long time.
• 50:49
  Ready. Brian.
• 50:50
  No. Okay.
• 50:51
  I'm just like, okay, Haley. He were right.
• 50:54
  I gotta be here. Let's go.
• 50:56
  So, since the two girls aren't really sure, why the house is
• 50:59
  quiet and they're like, oh no, did we break a rule or
• 51:01
  something? They go up to Paula's room, and
• 51:04
  Paula and Gertrude her there. And Gertrude is enraged.
• 51:09
  She's like, your dad told me this money would be here on this
• 51:12
  date. She called grab Sylvia throws
• 51:16
  her onto the pile of clothes. She said, be nice.
• 51:18
  Not even a bed. It's like a pallet.
• 51:20
  No, and Gertrude like like they pull down her underwear and
• 51:25
  begin just like hitting her with a spoon.
• 51:27
  Then they grab Jenny, do the same thing.
• 51:30
  Hits them on there, like thighs, and legs.
• 51:33
  And she ends the beating by telling the girls.
• 51:35
  If your father doesn't pay me, you get beat.
• 51:43
  Gertrude takes pleasure in this. She even tells the girls right
• 51:46
  before she leaves. If he hasn't paid me by the end
• 51:49
  of the week, I'm writing you girls out a dollar a ride until
• 51:52
  the money shows up. What's that mean?
• 51:55
  She's gonna prostitute them for a dollar.
• 51:57
  A guy. Oh there's a Dollar Ride.
• 51:59
  That's what she said. A dollar ride until I make my
• 52:01
  money. Oh she meant ride in that way.
• 52:04
  Oh oh okay. The worst part is Lester's.
• 52:08
  Check arrived in. The next morning.
• 52:10
  It literally got delayed in the post.
• 52:13
  Now, don't you feel silly? You feel stupid for being these
• 52:16
  children that are even yours. Well, the situation though, is
• 52:21
  that what she realizes is she likes how powerful she feels.
• 52:28
  So now it's not going to stop the next meeting came when like
• 52:33
  and sisters realized that they could sell like old Coke bottles
• 52:37
  like those old school thick glass ones because they Would
• 52:40
  recycle them and just reuse them and they would get really good
• 52:43
  money for them. So they went and they bought a
• 52:45
  bunch of food and candy and stuff.
• 52:46
  And this is actually really messed up because Jenny was
• 52:51
  like, oh we got to eat all this and Sylvia was like no, no, no.
• 52:55
  We should take some back to the other luggage children, you
• 52:57
  know. And so they come back and they
• 53:01
  give the money to the other kids and Gertrude is like you stole
• 53:05
  that and Sylvia's like no this is my own money.
• 53:09
  Annie. Jenny who is still raw from the
• 53:13
  other beating is silent. Paula.
• 53:16
  And Stephanie come in and watch as Gertrude just like chance,
• 53:21
  like, Thief. A liar.
• 53:22
  Thief liar. And the other two girls join in.
• 53:26
  Finally, Jenny, tell a mind, you the whole time.
• 53:28
  She's doing this, she's hitting her, mmm, finally, Jenny told
• 53:32
  Gertrude that, they'd stolen the candy that way to stop the
• 53:36
  beating. From this point on Jenny and
• 53:41
  Sylvia try to be perfect houseguest.
• 53:43
  They are silent. They try to be a bother.
• 53:46
  They try to avoid Gertrude entirely and just go to school.
• 53:50
  They even stopped trying to really make friends because
• 53:53
  they're worried about the fact that the like is children's of
• 53:55
  always goes, gone to these holes, right?
• 53:59
  Gertrude is not feeding them. Like barely at all.
• 54:04
  So one night all the kids have to go to this church function in
• 54:08
  place of Gertrude going because Gertrude doesn't go anywhere.
• 54:10
  She just lays in her filth and enjoys being an awful person,
• 54:13
  right? The local preacher notices that
• 54:16
  both Jenny and Sylvia seem a little weak, and it had been
• 54:19
  three days since either of them had eaten anything.
• 54:23
  So when the preacher offered them food, they couldn't say no
• 54:26
  and funny enough, Jenny was the one who ended up kind of gorging
• 54:29
  herself on food. But Sylvia was like, I need to
• 54:32
  like show some restraint she goes home Sylvia, tux, Jenny
• 54:36
  into bed and then she's like, you know what, I should just go
• 54:39
  to sleep and then I guess she sort of changed her mind and she
• 54:42
  goes back downstairs. There's Gertrude sitting with
• 54:46
  all of her children, Gertrude calls her a pig, and it's just
• 54:50
  like, I heard you were out bringing shame to my name again.
• 54:54
  as if anyone could shave you more than you've already been
• 54:57
  Gertrude but regardless God. Okay, Gertrude it right?
• 55:03
  Like so mad about the food thing and how like oh people are going
• 55:06
  to think that I didn't feed you, you don't.
• 55:09
  So she drags Sylvie into the kitchen, pulls out a steel hot,
• 55:13
  dog bun and like an old sausage drenches, it and mustard, and
• 55:16
  ketchup, and tries to force feed her screaming the entire time
• 55:22
  about how Sylvia's gonna get fat.
• 55:24
  Nobody's going to want her. She'll end up alone through this
• 55:28
  process. So, Via does begin to vomit and
• 55:32
  Gertrude forces her to eat. The finished, hot dog.
• 55:37
  And then to eat the regurgitated, hot dog again,
• 55:41
  like, like with her foot on her leg back, dragging her head
• 55:45
  across the floor, terrible. All of the baniszewski children
• 55:51
  watched her do this, and then Gertrude picked her up.
• 55:55
  Wiped her off and told her I only punish you because I care
• 55:59
  about you. Mind you, I'm going to.
• 56:03
  Also, let you know that a lot of these stories come from
• 56:06
  Stephanie Bennett's us key. Because at the inevitable trial
• 56:10
  that happened, she when she was the one that she turned on the
• 56:14
  family and told everything. So, these are the things that
• 56:17
  Stephanie was there to see. A week later Sylvia meets with
• 56:23
  Lester and Betty Gertrude organizes this so that they
• 56:26
  don't see the inside of the house.
• 56:27
  The whole family gets on a bus and goes to Garfield Park.
• 56:32
  Bet, he's like, why are they so skinny and Gertrude's like, oh
• 56:36
  Paula's, like on a diet? And so, the girls decided they
• 56:39
  were going to help her with it. So they're on a diet to pretty
• 56:44
  much Gertrude lies and lies and lies some more on On all the
• 56:50
  while just stare in Sylvia straight in the face.
• 56:55
  Daring her contradict me. I dare you, Jenny hadn't
• 57:00
  witnessed the other the thing that had just happened the week
• 57:05
  before, so she was like, we're fine.
• 57:09
  All that happened to Jenny was she got spanked one time right?
• 57:12
  It was weird because she's like 14.
• 57:14
  But you know in the end Betty hugs her daughters and she's
• 57:20
  like I'm so happy you guys just started going to church.
• 57:23
  That's amazing. On the way home Gertrude's.
• 57:26
  Like this is great. We're going to be friends now
• 57:30
  and no well no friend. I believe in and Jenny's
• 57:34
  testimony. She said was almost worse that
• 57:36
  they believed her. It's terrible because they let
• 57:42
  their guard down. Yeah.
• 57:43
  So they tried to be friendly with Paula and Stephanie.
• 57:46
  So I'm going to say that this is when things go from the abuse
• 57:54
  that the kind of abuse that Gertrude experience when she was
• 57:57
  younger into a completely different territory.
• 58:01
  So all the teenagers are downstairs in the living room
• 58:04
  and they're all talking about their experiences with the
• 58:06
  opposite sex. Okay.
• 58:08
  So jenni's like I only kissed a boy and like that was like a
• 58:10
  like a year ago and we never talk to each other Sylvia is
• 58:14
  like well when I lived in Florida with my parents, I went
• 58:17
  steady with a boy and she said that she let him touch her over
• 58:22
  her sweater and everyone's like Gertrude's even there.
• 58:27
  And she's like, oh, but when Sylvia tells her story, Gertrude
• 58:32
  snaps, slaps, her in the face calls her a whore in front of
• 58:36
  all the other kids. Sylvia's like what I didn't?
• 58:40
  We mean I'm a whore. I've never even had sex before.
• 58:42
  Yeah. And she's like I have even gone
• 58:46
  past first base but like Gertrude, literally, like hits
• 58:48
  her so hard. She falls to the floor.
• 58:50
  Her head hits the wall on the way down.
• 58:53
  She's screaming the entire time and she's a prostitute.
• 58:56
  Everybody knows the neighborhood.
• 58:58
  Children are like the fuck is going on.
• 59:04
  Gertrude's like oh I bet you're pregnant right now.
• 59:06
  Anyway. She's like, you know you let a
• 59:10
  boy put his dirty Parts down there.
• 59:12
  Like she's using some real area language.
• 59:14
  Yeah, really pillows. Then Gertrude somehow like spins
• 59:18
  the story that obviously Sylvia had accepted all that candy for
• 59:23
  sex. That's why she had that candy
• 59:29
  and she's like, she's telling this story like, Oh, I bet you.
• 59:33
  That's how you got all that candy.
• 59:34
  You must have like exchange candy for sex.
• 59:37
  She is physically stomping on Sylvia's scratch, like full, she
• 59:47
  demands that some of the neighborhood boys, like hold
• 59:51
  Sylvia, what the and they do? They hold her legs in place, so
• 59:57
  that Gertrude can continue like kicking her at one point.
• 1:00:03
  Like they got tired and like, the one boy dropped her leg and
• 1:00:07
  was like exhausted. And so Sylvia manages to get up.
• 1:00:11
  Barely able to stand, and she goes to sit in a chair and
• 1:00:14
  Gertrude grabs. The chair like from out from
• 1:00:16
  under her and literally says, whores are unfit for chairs.
• 1:00:19
  What the fuck. And from that moment forward,
• 1:00:22
  she was not allowed to sit anywhere in the house.
• 1:00:26
  You're still listening. It gets worse from here.
• 1:00:28
  Gertrude would even come into her bedroom and like, throw the
• 1:00:31
  little palette. Across the room, come on, lay
• 1:00:33
  down, fuck you. We're gonna do obviously like a
• 1:00:36
  horse, I'll stand up. Well, the next thing that
• 1:00:39
  happens is quite possibly, like there's a discussion on this of
• 1:00:44
  whether this rumor about the baniszewski.
• 1:00:47
  Kids came from Sylvia or if it just came from the other kids
• 1:00:52
  being there at the house. But regardless there, These
• 1:00:55
  rules. There's these rumors about the
• 1:00:56
  ban has a ski girls. No one is like we can't say
• 1:01:00
  anything. Like there's no rumors about
• 1:01:03
  Sylvia because Sylvie is literally like the most innocent
• 1:01:06
  of innocent. They're at school, Paul.
• 1:01:08
  And Stephanie didn't hear these rumors, but they knew something
• 1:01:11
  was going on because whenever they would walk in a room,
• 1:01:13
  people would get quiet. Of course, you know people are
• 1:01:15
  talking about you when that happens.
• 1:01:17
  And the first rumors are that the house is filthy, but it also
• 1:01:22
  has rumors about places that other kids aren't allowed to go.
• 1:01:26
  That's why people thought it was Sylvia.
• 1:01:28
  The told these rumors, one teen boy had the courage and his name
• 1:01:33
  was quite Hubbard. He also was in love with
• 1:01:36
  Stephanie so he decides he's going to go right up to the
• 1:01:39
  baniszewski house. Talk to Gertrude and he's like
• 1:01:43
  Sylvia and Jenny are spreading lies about my girl and you What
• 1:01:49
  he did this. He gasps he goes straight to the
• 1:01:51
  house. Oh, no Sylvia gets home from
• 1:01:54
  school and Coy is right in her face.
• 1:01:57
  And he's like, why are you talking shit about my
• 1:01:59
  girlfriend? He's like, why'd you say
• 1:02:01
  Stephanie's a slut as soon as Daphne.
• 1:02:03
  Here's that she's like, wait, what?
• 1:02:05
  Oh my god. Oh, and Sylvia.
• 1:02:07
  It's just like, I've never said anything.
• 1:02:08
  Why would I say anything about you?
• 1:02:10
  Like, I barely know you. Yeah, I don't really care about
• 1:02:13
  you right now. She's like, the rumors are could
• 1:02:14
  have come from. Any of the teenagers you allowed
• 1:02:16
  to be in this place, right? Right.
• 1:02:18
  As it is but like no one's listening to her.
• 1:02:21
  Coy, who is studying Judo proceeds to beat the ever living
• 1:02:26
  crap out of her and the other issue is that Sylvia was
• 1:02:30
  underfed undernourished and had never been in a fight in her
• 1:02:32
  life. Yeah, the other children watch
• 1:02:36
  in silence. Coy flips, her around the room,
• 1:02:40
  several times before Gertrude's. Like you're messing up my living
• 1:02:43
  room, kid, and then she walks over opens the door to the
• 1:02:46
  basement and goes take her down there.
• 1:02:50
  Pretty much alone with her in the basement.
• 1:02:52
  He just preacher like a human punching bag.
• 1:02:56
  When McCoy is exhausted, he leaves the basement and
• 1:02:58
  Gertrude's. Like you know what?
• 1:03:00
  You should come back for more practice.
• 1:03:07
  Sylvia's show Steph, she can barely move.
• 1:03:11
  She finally crawled her way, back up the steps and Gertrude's
• 1:03:14
  like. Well it's not like anybody's
• 1:03:16
  going to believe what you're saying about my kids Sylvia
• 1:03:20
  stays home for a couple days, Gertrude tells her school, she
• 1:03:22
  has the flu most of the bruises fade from purple to green and
• 1:03:26
  they finally get to that ugly. Yellow color and Stephanie
• 1:03:30
  Impala share their makeup with Sylvia to help her hide her
• 1:03:33
  bruises. Sylvia stops.
• 1:03:37
  Talking really to mostly to anybody at school.
• 1:03:40
  She's like, I know one can say that.
• 1:03:42
  I said something, if I never talk at all, boy starts coming
• 1:03:47
  coming by regularly, he didn't beat her up as badly as he did
• 1:03:51
  the first night, but he does still like flip her around.
• 1:03:54
  Really like she's a judo doll really.
• 1:03:57
  He just comes over and just So Sylvia does make like one friend
• 1:04:03
  despite the fact that she's really trying not to all right.
• 1:04:08
  Yeah, name was Anna. She was actually like a
• 1:04:11
  freshman. She's only 13 and she like
• 1:04:14
  Anna's just like I really want to come see where you live and
• 1:04:17
  like Sylvia's like no you don't. Hmm.
• 1:04:21
  So finally she can't give enough excuses at this point.
• 1:04:25
  She's like fine I'm sure animal take one step into the house and
• 1:04:28
  see the pile of garbage in the living room and like Turn around
• 1:04:33
  when they come in Gertrude in the living room and she's so
• 1:04:36
  excited. Oh my gosh, you have a friend.
• 1:04:39
  You should go get her a Coke and we'll wait here in the living
• 1:04:42
  room for you when Sylvia walks back in and attacks her.
• 1:04:47
  What the hell Gertrude had told Anna that Sylvia has been
• 1:04:51
  talking about her mother? In just a minute Gertrude had
• 1:04:56
  removed, the only friend that Sylvia.
• 1:04:59
  Hey, why are you doing this? So then Anna told other people
• 1:05:03
  at school and now Sylvia's really isolated there.
• 1:05:07
  Other girls from school, attacked her to based on things
• 1:05:10
  that Gertrude said a few times Sylvia, even try to defend
• 1:05:15
  herself. She's like, listen, I don't know
• 1:05:16
  you, why would I lie about your family?
• 1:05:18
  One night, I could grow was in the living room.
• 1:05:21
  Her name was Judy and Gertrude. Is like, you know, she's been
• 1:05:24
  talking all this stuff about you and your mom and Gertrude was
• 1:05:28
  just like, you know, you should hit her for how what she says
• 1:05:32
  about you and Judy was like I'm not going to do that.
• 1:05:35
  Like I don't I didn't hear her say anything.
• 1:05:37
  So Judy leaves someone smart. Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  Okay. And so Gertrude then demands.
• 1:05:43
  Well, if Judy is not going to hit you, Jenny should hit you,
• 1:05:48
  Jenny refuses and Gertrude's. Like what if you don't hit her,
• 1:05:52
  I'll hit you. Hit me, hit me.
• 1:05:55
  I don't care. So Jenny is just sobbing
• 1:05:59
  Gertrude hits her so hard, she loses her balance and Falls
• 1:06:02
  because she has the messed up. Leg Sylvia is like like begs
• 1:06:07
  jenni's. Like for the love of God, just
• 1:06:09
  do it and Jenny ends up, punching her sister repeatedly
• 1:06:16
  until Gertrudis satisfied. At first, they try to hide this
• 1:06:22
  abuse. Like I said, they do the makeup,
• 1:06:24
  all that stuff, but Sylvia showing up, bruised more and
• 1:06:27
  more often, boys allowed to come in and throw her around whenever
• 1:06:30
  he wants. Honestly, they weren't really
• 1:06:34
  watching him. And so he was already kind of a
• 1:06:37
  dark kid, but now he's being allowed to explore that like,
• 1:06:42
  yeah creepy killer stuff with her, so sometimes he's down
• 1:06:45
  there, just choking her until she passes out, real creepy
• 1:06:48
  stuff. One of the things about this
• 1:06:52
  case that really just purely pisses me off is the sheer
• 1:06:55
  volume of witnesses. So in August of 1965 new
• 1:07:01
  neighbors, move into the garden next to her.
• 1:07:03
  True, their names are Phyllis and Ray Vermillion, and I'm
• 1:07:06
  naming them, because they should be ashamed, after seeing all of
• 1:07:09
  the kids. The Vermillion thought that Gert
• 1:07:11
  would be, you know, Gertrude be a good babysitter, right?
• 1:07:13
  The Vermilion family sets up this big backyard barbecue, so
• 1:07:16
  the families can meet each other Sylvia shows up with a black
• 1:07:19
  eye. Polish straight up goes.
• 1:07:22
  Oh yeah I did that. And they're like why at the same
• 1:07:28
  party Paulo goes into the kitchen boil.
• 1:07:32
  Some water scoop sack up and walks up and throws it on
• 1:07:36
  Sylveon. Oh my God then we're million
• 1:07:40
  family. Never reports it.
• 1:07:45
  Two months later. They go to Gertrude's house to
• 1:07:49
  borrow something, and they see Sylvia in the house with a black
• 1:07:53
  eye. That is so bad that it's
• 1:07:54
  swollen. Shut and her lips are swollen
• 1:07:57
  and she's walking around almost like out of it.
• 1:08:00
  Probably this point. She has a concussion Paula ad
• 1:08:03
  and tells Phyllis. Yeah, I did that to her and then
• 1:08:06
  she takes off her belt to show Phyllis how she beats Sylvia and
• 1:08:12
  hits her in front of Phyllis. This was Also not reported.
• 1:08:18
  Surely after that Sylvia asked said, told Gertrude that she had
• 1:08:22
  to get a tracksuit for gym class and Gertrude's, like, no, I'm
• 1:08:26
  not spending money on you. And it puts Sylvia's in this
• 1:08:29
  terrible position where she's freaked out.
• 1:08:31
  Because if she doesn't have the tracksuit that everyone has to
• 1:08:34
  wear at gym time, they're going to call Gertrude and complain,
• 1:08:38
  right? And then good.
• 1:08:38
  She'll be mad because she didn't because she doesn't have what
• 1:08:41
  she needs for school. So she steals one and she just
• 1:08:46
  hopes that that kid doesn't care that it's gone.
• 1:08:49
  She gets away with it at school at least but Gertrude sees this
• 1:08:52
  track suit when Sylvia is washing her clothes.
• 1:08:56
  Gertrude beats her, but also takes a cigarette and burns.
• 1:09:00
  Each of her fingers in front of the teenagers at the house.
• 1:09:06
  At this point, I think the teenagers are so desensitized to
• 1:09:08
  what they're seeing that. No one even objects-- to to this
• 1:09:11
  point and they all take turns burning her too.
• 1:09:17
  Like they, she became like they're human ashtray.
• 1:09:21
  She is malnourished, she barely can sleep.
• 1:09:23
  She's in so much pain. Her body, just stopped healing
• 1:09:26
  at this point, Coy even noticed that her bruises weren't fading
• 1:09:30
  anymore and it said, like, this is kind of the place point where
• 1:09:36
  things are going to start to shut down soon.
• 1:09:40
  Gertrude had convinced everyone that she was a liar.
• 1:09:42
  So Sylvia didn't feel like she had anybody.
• 1:09:44
  She could talk to the only time she ate was when she could
• 1:09:48
  collect a couple Coke bottles and buy some food for herself on
• 1:09:52
  the way home before Gertrude could see it.
• 1:09:56
  She would sit on like a park bench and then sneak back in the
• 1:09:58
  house. Um, question.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah, her ass this house is Jenny.
• 1:10:10
  Jenny is trying to avoid everybody.
• 1:10:15
  She will try to help in her own way, fairly soon, but Okay.
• 1:10:25
  Okay, go ahead keep getting with this.
• 1:10:27
  The next situation that happens isn't really bad one.
• 1:10:34
  One day she comes back Gertrude is waiting for her.
• 1:10:38
  She was even know why she's being beaten at this point.
• 1:10:40
  She just kind of lets Gertrude drag her around the house.
• 1:10:43
  Finally though, Gertrude drags her into living room, there's no
• 1:10:46
  other Teens in the house other than boys.
• 1:10:52
  She forces Sylvia to strip in front of all the boys hands her
• 1:10:58
  a coke bottle and like demands. She put it inside of herself at
• 1:11:05
  some point doing this Sylvia passes out from just the pain.
• 1:11:10
  The next morning Sylvia bags to be taken to a doctor.
• 1:11:12
  She's like something is wrong, Gertrude beats her some more.
• 1:11:21
  The the issue is that she is now almost incontinent.
• 1:11:26
  Like she can't control her bladder at this point from
• 1:11:30
  whatever happened with the model, right Gertrude's.
• 1:11:36
  Just like well take her upstairs.
• 1:11:40
  Throw around the hot water. You know since she pissed all
• 1:11:43
  over the bed and everything else, and one of the boys like
• 1:11:47
  refuses to do that, his name is Ricky and Gertrude actually
• 1:11:53
  coerces, this 14 year old boy to essentially further sexually
• 1:11:59
  assault Sylvia through the use of sexual favors.
• 1:12:05
  Yep, essentially though, I would say, I would say assault in the
• 1:12:10
  way of, they take her up to the bathroom, they take off her
• 1:12:13
  clothes, and they like forcibly clean her and then throw her
• 1:12:17
  back in the basement according to what Gertrude says right and
• 1:12:21
  this would go on. Every day in fact and this is
• 1:12:26
  this is probably pretty awful but the Ben is a ski children
• 1:12:28
  start charging money to other teenagers to come see Sylvia
• 1:12:32
  laying in the basement. When she's being a locked in now
• 1:12:36
  at night and sometimes charging money to push her down the
• 1:12:41
  steps. She's being kept constantly
• 1:12:45
  naked barely fed when they do feed her.
• 1:12:47
  It's bizarre in a dog bowl. Or like one time.
• 1:12:50
  They'd be like you here soup but you have to eat it with your
• 1:12:54
  hands. It was just this is all
• 1:12:57
  Amusement for Gertrude's destructive mind at some point
• 1:13:01
  to 12 year old, John joined in And comes up with the idea that
• 1:13:08
  she should eat her own feces. Oh my God.
• 1:13:13
  Um so all these kids that are coming to pay money, they'd say
• 1:13:17
  they don't like just because she's naked.
• 1:13:19
  They like oh well you know yeah but they were 25 cents.
• 1:13:22
  You can come see her. Boobs are out.
• 1:13:24
  They don't don't tell stories around school.
• 1:13:26
  Nobody hears about this. No parents here.
• 1:13:28
  No parents. At least not the way if they do.
• 1:13:30
  Then maybe, they'll believe it. Okay.
• 1:13:33
  Well there is a second chance at rescue happens.
• 1:13:37
  A local Pastor is visiting the homes of his parishioners.
• 1:13:40
  He sits in the kitchen, literally Sylvia's in the
• 1:13:42
  basement. Gertrude's like, oh, I was
• 1:13:44
  taking care of this. Girl, she's a sinner.
• 1:13:47
  She's been sleeping with married.
• 1:13:48
  Men, Paula wandered and during the conversation and there is
• 1:13:54
  this, the juxtaposition of, there's a pastor sitting in the
• 1:13:56
  chair, Paul is wearing baggy clothes because she's trying to
• 1:13:59
  hide the fact that she's like four months pregnant.
• 1:14:01
  And there's Gertrude talking about how, oh, I bet you, she's
• 1:14:05
  pregnant. She's fucking all these people
• 1:14:07
  and polish just like Wow, the reverend's like well I'll pray
• 1:14:13
  with you and maybe, you know, I'll come back and we can pray
• 1:14:16
  with Sylvia to when she's here. And Paul is like I hate Sylvia
• 1:14:20
  and like Gertrude's, like no, no no, you don't hate her.
• 1:14:25
  You hate what she's doing, she wants to make sure, you know,
• 1:14:28
  hate the sinner, hate the sin, not the sinner, the reference
• 1:14:32
  like, I'm going to come back, but he never comes back now.
• 1:14:36
  Jenny tries to reach out to her parents.
• 1:14:39
  Since they move weekly, due to the movement of the traveling,
• 1:14:43
  like a circus, it's very difficult and Gertrude is
• 1:14:46
  holding onto the information as close as she can.
• 1:14:49
  So like, she would get a letter back from.
• 1:14:51
  She'll get a letter with the money and that would have the
• 1:14:53
  current address. And by the time, the girls got
• 1:14:56
  the the letter, they'd already moved on, right?
• 1:15:00
  They did have a grandmother but that grandmother was taking care
• 1:15:03
  of Jenny's twin brother Benny and she was old, they have an
• 1:15:06
  older sister named Diana and when Sylvia is locked in the
• 1:15:09
  basement, Basement Jenny's leg. I'm going to write to Diana.
• 1:15:12
  She writes this whole huge letter begging her sister to
• 1:15:15
  like call the police Diana. Didn't believe her.
• 1:15:21
  Why? And what she said was that Jenny
• 1:15:26
  and Sylvia had tried to move in with her before. but, as Diane
• 1:15:33
  has looking over the letters, she's like, This is too
• 1:15:38
  detailed. Like where is this coming from?
• 1:15:41
  I guess it's not like oh these people beat me.
• 1:15:43
  Come pick me up so I can come live with you and your husband.
• 1:15:45
  Like these are very detailed accounts of abuse.
• 1:15:47
  There's come from actual experiences.
• 1:15:48
  Please come get us. So Diana decides to visit the
• 1:15:52
  area and she decides to stop by the house and Gertrude opens the
• 1:15:57
  door and is like you aren't welcome here, Gertrude tells her
• 1:16:01
  Lester called me and told me you can't see them Diana's.
• 1:16:05
  Like that's weird. Why would Lester say that?
• 1:16:07
  And she's just like, I don't know, that's between you and
• 1:16:10
  your dad but you can't come here because you don't have
• 1:16:12
  permission. So then I was like, okay, sure
• 1:16:15
  she walks down the street and then she waits because she's
• 1:16:18
  like, it's some point. They're going to come out of his
• 1:16:19
  house. One of them is going to come
• 1:16:21
  out. Mmm.
• 1:16:22
  So about two hours later, Jenny's drying.
• 1:16:24
  This gigantic plastic bag outside and Diana runs up to her
• 1:16:27
  expecting, ju to hug her and Jenny's just like, I can't talk
• 1:16:31
  to you. You have to go away.
• 1:16:33
  So Diane is like, now I'm really confused.
• 1:16:35
  You just called me saying these people hate are monsters.
• 1:16:38
  So Diana calls, Indianapolis Social Services, thank you.
• 1:16:42
  And she disposed home and she's just like, all right, Gertrude
• 1:16:46
  was ready for this a couple days later, the social worker
• 1:16:49
  arrives, Jenny is there dressed beautifully along with all the
• 1:16:54
  other girls Sylvia's in the basement, Jenny has been told to
• 1:16:58
  play along, or she will end up in the basement as well.
• 1:17:01
  The social worker is That Sylvia got kicked out several weeks ago
• 1:17:04
  because Gertrude found out. She was a prostitute, the social
• 1:17:08
  worker. Closes the case.
• 1:17:10
  There was another situation where they were almost found out
• 1:17:14
  by a man who the been is ASCII children robbed.
• 1:17:17
  Like he legitimately showed up at their house was like your
• 1:17:19
  kids stole my shit and then he starts just pushing his way
• 1:17:22
  through the house to find his stuff.
• 1:17:24
  He makes it into the kitchen and Coy Hubbard and Ricky tackle
• 1:17:30
  him. And they dragged him outside.
• 1:17:39
  Quit Hubbard is a problem and this is such an interesting
• 1:17:43
  thing because now they've allowed him to four months, get
• 1:17:46
  these weird creepy dark fantasies out.
• 1:17:48
  He's like being weird and creepy with Stephanie to and she
• 1:17:52
  doesn't like it. She's like, as soon as like
• 1:17:55
  she's like it's fine when they're around the other
• 1:17:56
  children, but as soon as like, they would be like alone in her
• 1:17:58
  room, he would be like, almost sexually violent with her and
• 1:18:02
  like, not a surprise. He's allowed to do whatever the
• 1:18:04
  fuck he wants. Yeah, Gertrude's getting mad now
• 1:18:09
  because despite all the horrible stuff that they're doing the
• 1:18:12
  Sylvia Sylvia spirit is not broken like Gertrude would walk
• 1:18:16
  down the steps and Sylvia would just stare at her with like
• 1:18:20
  daggers. As you should.
• 1:18:24
  So Gertrude is like well if she stays downstairs, she never does
• 1:18:27
  anything wrong. So I'm gonna let her come
• 1:18:30
  upstairs because then she'll get in trouble and I can punish her.
• 1:18:34
  So even though Sylvia had drank no water that day, like I said,
• 1:18:39
  she'd been rendered in continent by the bottle, right?
• 1:18:42
  Yeah, so she still peed the bed at night.
• 1:18:46
  Gertrude came in the room, screamed at her through old
• 1:18:49
  clothes at her, drag you down stairs when she realized.
• 1:18:52
  Only boys in the house again. She had Sylvia strip again.
• 1:18:56
  She did the same thing with the bottle of second time.
• 1:18:59
  This time, Sylvia, just kind of stared at her and did it.
• 1:19:01
  She didn't Flinch. She didn't cry.
• 1:19:03
  She was given Gertrude nothing. Gertrude's pissed.
• 1:19:09
  She's like I want to see her screaming and crying like she
• 1:19:11
  used to but she's doing everything.
• 1:19:13
  I'm asking her to do so then she has the boys hold her down and
• 1:19:18
  she takes a needle and they heat it on the stove and Ricky helps
• 1:19:24
  Gertrude. Come up with the words.
• 1:19:26
  I'm a prostitute and I'm proud of it on her stomach.
• 1:19:30
  Oh after it was done surely, the younger daughter asked Sylvia
• 1:19:36
  well how do you You feel about being branded and Sylvia just
• 1:19:39
  goes. I guess there's nothing I can
• 1:19:40
  do. It's there also pisses Gertrude
• 1:19:43
  off so she let koi throw around in the basement some more, but
• 1:19:48
  that wasn't fun either, because Sylvia had stopped reacting.
• 1:19:51
  I'm assuming, at this point. She's disassociating.
• 1:19:55
  Yeah, she's in her own world. You know, at this point that
• 1:19:58
  night, Jenny went down to see her.
• 1:20:01
  And Sylvia told her sister, I'm going to die.
• 1:20:04
  I can tell. Jenny ran upstairs and head
• 1:20:08
  before. Gertrude could see her trying to
• 1:20:10
  console her sister Gertrude, sat on the steps and stared at her
• 1:20:14
  before, inviting her to come back upstairs.
• 1:20:16
  The next morning, they bathed her dressed, her really nicely,
• 1:20:20
  and forced her to write a letter to her, parents telling her that
• 1:20:23
  she'd gone with a group of boys. They had assaulted her and hurt
• 1:20:27
  her and branded her. This was the letter that was
• 1:20:30
  going to prove that Sylvia had run away and Gertrude was
• 1:20:34
  planning on just dumping her somewhere outside.
• 1:20:38
  At this point Sylvia ran for the door.
• 1:20:40
  She's like, they're gonna murder me.
• 1:20:42
  And she just runs for the board or Gertrude grabs.
• 1:20:45
  Her drags her back attempts to like frost like a pole down her
• 1:20:50
  throat and knock her to the floor.
• 1:20:56
  At some point, they try and give her like crackers and water.
• 1:20:58
  And she tells Gertrude, you should give it to a dog.
• 1:21:02
  It's hungrier than I am. Gertrude beats her again the
• 1:21:08
  next morning. Coy and Gertrude come into the
• 1:21:10
  basement Sylvie's, in the same spot where she'd been Gertrude
• 1:21:14
  tries to attack Sylvia and misses and hits herself like she
• 1:21:19
  literally like mrs. Hits the wall hits herself, Koya
• 1:21:23
  staring at her like who is this stupid old Thank God.
• 1:21:27
  Funny moment, ye took the curtain rod from Gertrude and
• 1:21:31
  beat her until he was sure she was unconscious Sylvia woke up
• 1:21:34
  in the middle of the night. She was unable to scream because
• 1:21:37
  of the thing with them trying to thrust something down her
• 1:21:40
  throat. So she found like a metal spade
• 1:21:43
  and she began hitting the wall all night long.
• 1:21:48
  The sound actually was loud enough.
• 1:21:49
  That it woke people up in the area but none of them called the
• 1:21:52
  police because they were used to weird.
• 1:21:55
  Sounds coming from the vent has a ski house.
• 1:22:00
  The next morning Ricky and Stephanie pixel via they take
• 1:22:03
  her into the bathtub. Her head Falls below the water
• 1:22:06
  and they don't see any air bubbles, Stephanie tries to do
• 1:22:10
  CPR and that's when they realized that she is.
• 1:22:12
  Cold is October 26, 1965 and Stephanie was 16 years old.
• 1:22:20
  You Sylvia Gertrude had her, put in the basement and so, she
• 1:22:23
  calls the police across the street.
• 1:22:26
  She hands the police officers to note, and they're like, this is
• 1:22:30
  weird because, okay, I'm going to tell you this because I saw
• 1:22:32
  part of the letter, the letter is addressed to Dear mr.
• 1:22:37
  And mrs. Betty.
• 1:22:38
  And Lester Likens. What child writes a letter to
• 1:22:42
  their parents and uses their official full name?
• 1:22:46
  No, you would just say to your mom and dad so that was already
• 1:22:49
  stupid. Weird.
• 1:22:50
  Yeah, but it gets more like this just gets.
• 1:22:54
  All right. The like, the officers.
• 1:22:57
  Like the other issue though, is that they're like, this is the
• 1:22:59
  wife of former officer, I guess they were still viewing her even
• 1:23:05
  though they're ex-wife. They're like we still have to
• 1:23:07
  like, take care of her as they are leaving.
• 1:23:11
  Jenny Whispers to a police officer.
• 1:23:14
  If you get me out of here, I'll tell you everything.
• 1:23:18
  So the officer is like, you know what, I really need to question
• 1:23:21
  everybody here alone and he like looks to Jenny and he's just
• 1:23:25
  like, I'm going to start with you as soon as they are.
• 1:23:28
  In the Next Room. Ginny goes look in the basement.
• 1:23:31
  They killed my sister. He goes down into the house.
• 1:23:36
  Everyone was arrested. Who was there that day?
• 1:23:38
  Yay, except for Jenny, of course, that's Gertrude Paula.
• 1:23:42
  Stephanie, John, Junior, Coy and Ricky all arrested for murder
• 1:23:46
  and the other teenagers. Hers are arrested for assault.
• 1:23:49
  Like pretty much everyone in the house.
• 1:23:53
  And the whole time Gertrude is still like raving and ranting
• 1:23:57
  giving the same story. So the autopsy is done it.
• 1:24:00
  Corroborates, a lot of the different stories stories from
• 1:24:03
  Jenny, some from Stephanie, she had over 100 different cigarette
• 1:24:07
  burns on her body. Some were second and third
• 1:24:09
  degree burns. She had severe bruising along
• 1:24:11
  with muscular and nerve damage. They weren't entirely sure if
• 1:24:15
  she just suffered a brain hemorrhage or this was just the
• 1:24:17
  combined shock of all of her injuries hitting her at once,
• 1:24:20
  right? I'm going to say, it was
• 1:24:21
  probably Really shocked. I think the fact that she was
• 1:24:24
  able to tell her sister, I think this is the end for me today.
• 1:24:27
  Hmm. When they attempted to do like a
• 1:24:32
  full body exam, her throat and her vagina were swollen shut,
• 1:24:36
  but she was inspected and doctors were able to report.
• 1:24:41
  That Gertrude was full of shit and nothing.
• 1:24:44
  She had been telling any adult for the last like nine months
• 1:24:47
  was accurate. I like how you said, oh, the
• 1:24:49
  doctor the doctor has concluded that you are full of shit.
• 1:24:54
  The lie. Detector test determined your
• 1:24:56
  booger full of shit. Oh my God.
• 1:24:59
  Was definitely not a prostitute. Unfortunately, the Lesser
• 1:25:04
  charges are dropped. Almost immediately in favor of
• 1:25:08
  murder for Gertrude Stephanie. Paula John jr.
• 1:25:12
  Koi. And Ricky, hmm, Stephanie
• 1:25:14
  immediately turns State's evidence and the murder charges
• 1:25:17
  are dropped against her. Like I said, the majority of the
• 1:25:19
  things that I told you about today come directly from her
• 1:25:22
  testimony during her trial, and to the police.
• 1:25:26
  Her trial was 1st May 1966, she denied knowing anything about
• 1:25:30
  the torture she entered a Not Guilty.
• 1:25:32
  By reason of insanity plea she absolutely was insane but her
• 1:25:37
  testimony was so bizarre that it made the jury dislike her she
• 1:25:41
  would go on and on about how Sylvia was the town whore and
• 1:25:44
  she deserved what happened to her when the evidence was that
• 1:25:47
  Sylvia and had no sexual experience and nothing had been
• 1:25:52
  done to her, genitals outside of the abuse that you did.
• 1:25:56
  Hmm, Gertrude's, eleven-year-old daughter Marie.
• 1:26:00
  Originally testified in her defense because that's what her
• 1:26:04
  mom wanted her to do. And then during
• 1:26:06
  cross-examination, she broke down and started crying.
• 1:26:10
  And just was like, my mom, this is all a lie.
• 1:26:17
  May 19th 1966. A jury finds her guilty of
• 1:26:20
  first-degree murder. The public are shocked, that
• 1:26:23
  Gertrude is not given the death penalty, right, 1971.
• 1:26:28
  She somehow manages to get a retrial because they got some of
• 1:26:30
  the previous evidence thrown out.
• 1:26:32
  She gets the same penalty, despite the citizens of Indiana
• 1:26:36
  fighting against it like they actively tried to get her parole
• 1:26:41
  like ruined, like the people of Indiana.
• 1:26:44
  And they she was paroled in 1985.
• 1:26:47
  She changed her name back to Fan faucet and she died of lung
• 1:26:50
  cancer. Five years later she never took
• 1:26:52
  responsibility for any of her crime.
• 1:26:54
  She swore she can never remember between the drugs and the
• 1:26:56
  alcohol. Her total time served was 20
• 1:27:00
  years. I fucking hate it, not not
• 1:27:03
  nearly enough, not nearly enough.
• 1:27:05
  Paula was found guilty of second-degree murder.
• 1:27:08
  Paul actually gave birth during her first trial, and it had to
• 1:27:11
  be rescheduled. That did not stop the jury.
• 1:27:14
  From recommending life in prison for her though.
• 1:27:17
  She also got an appeal because of that situation with the
• 1:27:20
  evidence in 1971 and instead of going back to trial, she just
• 1:27:25
  agreed to manslaughter. They gave her 25 years.
• 1:27:32
  Even though Paula put his actually was like 2221.
• 1:27:34
  But regardless even though Apollo participated in a prison
• 1:27:37
  riot and an attempted prison escape, they still released her
• 1:27:41
  a year later. I fucking like she only serves
• 1:27:44
  like I think in additionally, three more years total because
• 1:27:47
  it was parole and then she was officially done by 73.
• 1:27:51
  She changed her name, to Paul apace, and nobody heard anything
• 1:27:54
  about her until 2012. When the people of Iowa
• 1:27:58
  discovered who she was She was working as a teacher.
• 1:28:01
  That's right in the Marshalltown up in Marshalltown which was the
• 1:28:04
  Conrad school system. She had two adult sons.
• 1:28:07
  The time she was promptly fired for lying on her application.
• 1:28:12
  We haven't heard anything from her since we assume that she has
• 1:28:14
  probably changed her name again. Mmm. like I said, Stephanie
• 1:28:18
  served no time she changed her name, moved to Florida, got
• 1:28:20
  married had children also became a teacher John jr.
• 1:28:24
  Was sent convicted of manslaughter and sent to the
• 1:28:26
  Indiana State Reformatory, where he was the state's youngest
• 1:28:29
  inmate at 12 years old. He was released two years later
• 1:28:34
  changed his name to John Blake and found God.
• 1:28:37
  As a man of God, he condemned his family and he is the only
• 1:28:42
  man has a ski family member to ever show.
• 1:28:44
  Any remorse for his participation in Sylvia Likens
• 1:28:47
  murder. He died at 52 years old from
• 1:28:50
  cancer in 2005. He was a real estate agent and a
• 1:28:54
  minister who had three children, who 11 year old?
• 1:28:57
  Murray served no time in exchange for her testimony
• 1:29:00
  against her mom. Once she turned to supporting
• 1:29:03
  the prosecution, they were like, it's all right, she's eleven.
• 1:29:06
  We're not gonna do this to her. She apparently still lives
• 1:29:10
  somewhere in Indiana. Shirley was 10, she served no
• 1:29:13
  time. The only thing that surely
• 1:29:15
  participated in was branding Sylvia and that was she was The
• 1:29:18
  one who heated up a needle right?
• 1:29:22
  Her whereabouts are unknown today.
• 1:29:24
  James was eight. Nothing is known about him.
• 1:29:26
  Other than that, he served no time and since Dennis Junior was
• 1:29:30
  still like two years old, right? All we know about him is that he
• 1:29:33
  was put into foster care. He was adopted by a family like
• 1:29:37
  with the last name white and that he died in 2012.
• 1:29:41
  Now, let's talk about the people who weren't in the family.
• 1:29:44
  Yes, Coy Hubbard was convicted of manslaughter for his Judo
• 1:29:48
  attacks on Sylvia. He served two of his 21 year
• 1:29:51
  sentence before he was released. I fucking he never changed his
• 1:29:54
  name. He stayed in Indianapolis most
• 1:29:57
  of his adult life and not surprising for anybody.
• 1:30:02
  He ended up in jail again for a murder charge in 1982.
• 1:30:07
  She still in there, he was acquitted mother.
• 1:30:11
  Now, there is a movie that came out in 2007, which is probably
• 1:30:14
  where you saw this story called An American Crime.
• 1:30:18
  Yeah. After that, movie came out, and
• 1:30:21
  everyone was like, oh, that's the same coil Hubbard that we
• 1:30:23
  know from around the way he lost his job and he died a few months
• 1:30:28
  later in June of 2007, Ricky Hobbs was convicted of
• 1:30:34
  manslaughter. He served two years before he
• 1:30:36
  was released. Unlike John who became a better
• 1:30:40
  man. After Her being in Prison, Ricky
• 1:30:42
  was not, he did eventually admit that he did something wrong.
• 1:30:48
  He also was super messed up from probably participating in the
• 1:30:54
  violence, from the sexual abuse from Gertrude, from being in
• 1:30:57
  prison. He pretty much just had a
• 1:30:59
  nervous breakdown after his release.
• 1:31:02
  He died of cancer in 1972, at the age of 21, Lester and Betty
• 1:31:08
  never recovered. Lester had actually been to the
• 1:31:11
  house, only a few weeks before Sylvia died and so he blamed
• 1:31:15
  himself for never seeing what was going on.
• 1:31:18
  He died in Fontana, California February 2013.
• 1:31:21
  At the age of 86 Betty, did not forgive Laster and she divorced
• 1:31:25
  him a year after the trial, she remarried and she died.
• 1:31:29
  May 29th 1998 at seventy eight. Seventy one years old.
• 1:31:33
  She was buried next to her own brother at the Crown Hill
• 1:31:36
  Cemetery. Diana Likens definitely stayed
• 1:31:40
  off the radar. She was not charged with
• 1:31:42
  anything because the state thought that she did his best.
• 1:31:45
  She could, she told all the authorities, just nobody
• 1:31:49
  listened. Yeah.
• 1:31:52
  Weirdly enough recently both Diana and her husband got lost
• 1:31:55
  in a California, like Wilderness.
• 1:31:58
  Oh no. And they were stranded in their
• 1:31:59
  car, for two weeks. Her husband died from a heart
• 1:32:02
  attack in the car, but Diana was found her.
• 1:32:05
  Children are taking care of her still, okay?
• 1:32:07
  Okay, finally, Jenny, Likens lived with immeasurable guilt
• 1:32:12
  about what happened to her sister.
• 1:32:14
  She was actually adopted by the family of the prosecutor Leroy.
• 1:32:20
  New Leroy had several daughters that were the same age as her
• 1:32:23
  and they tried very much to love her as she had never been loved
• 1:32:27
  before. She has been described as a
• 1:32:31
  nervous wreck loose after this, she lived her life very much
• 1:32:35
  afraid of everything. Even though she was afraid when
• 1:32:40
  Gertrude second trial happened, she came forward and she spoke
• 1:32:45
  out against Gertrude being released, which is I'm sure the
• 1:32:48
  deciding factor between her because when Gertrude went to
• 1:32:51
  prison, she became a model prisoner.
• 1:32:53
  Of course everybody called her mom, she never did anything
• 1:32:56
  wrong. So when that trial happened in
• 1:32:57
  72, they were like why shouldn't we just like Let Her Go time
• 1:33:01
  sir. If she's already been in prison
• 1:33:02
  for like five years and Jenny was like, excuse me.
• 1:33:05
  Sorry about that. But um, She would beat me and my
• 1:33:09
  sister horrific lie constantly. So yeah, that Jenny, mustered up
• 1:33:16
  enough, courage to face her abuser in court in 1972, friends
• 1:33:23
  of Jenny, say that the Fatal heart attack that she died from
• 1:33:25
  in 2004 actually happened because a pizza delivery driver
• 1:33:30
  startled. Her when he knocked on the door,
• 1:33:34
  she was 54 years old and she lived in Beech Grove.
• 1:33:38
  Most of the people who are listening right now know this
• 1:33:41
  story. Like I said, the tales of would
• 1:33:43
  happen if Sylvia were pulled from many different bits of
• 1:33:46
  testimony from all of the children, Gertrude's torture
• 1:33:50
  crew of kids. It is highly likely that.
• 1:33:53
  There is more, that happened that we will never know, because
• 1:33:57
  there are probably things that Gertrude it on her own, and she
• 1:34:00
  died. She took that to her grave.
• 1:34:02
  Yeah. One thing that I will say, is
• 1:34:06
  that, I think it's very interesting that everyone who
• 1:34:09
  took part in abusing this girl died fairly quickly after it,
• 1:34:16
  was all said, and done. Yeah, like maybe we didn't get
• 1:34:21
  Justice in the courts, but karma took its Jose karmic like virtue
• 1:34:27
  got a present and it was like, oh no, you don't get to enjoy
• 1:34:30
  your life. Lung cancer, you spend your last
• 1:34:32
  couple of years and Horrible pain.
• 1:34:36
  But yeah. It's interesting, right?
• 1:34:39
  She ended up worse than she started.
• 1:34:42
  Yeah. But like it was almost exactly
• 1:34:45
  the same way that her own mother had been.
• 1:34:47
  Yeah. With her which doesn't make
• 1:34:49
  anybody feel any better. No, not no.
• 1:34:52
  I still think she's a piece of shit and I'm glad I felt sorry
• 1:34:57
  for her before, just a brief moment, you feel bad for the
• 1:35:00
  gating, beginning of the episode.
• 1:35:02
  Yeah, I was, I felt sorry for great when her, she's been
• 1:35:04
  abused by her mom, you feel so bad for her and then as things
• 1:35:07
  go. On pretty much from the point
• 1:35:10
  where she likes starts sexually, like, abusing her like
• 1:35:14
  boyfriend. Yeah, and like sexually coercing
• 1:35:17
  him. I'm like, oh no, this one is
• 1:35:18
  like, she's never gotten better this last.
• 1:35:21
  Yeah, I went down this path because I wanted to know who the
• 1:35:25
  monster was. And it turns out she was a
• 1:35:27
  monster for a very long time and they were very few, very few
• 1:35:31
  redeeming qualities from Gertrude been is ASCII or Paula
• 1:35:35
  baniszewski or Stephanie ban is a snow there.
• 1:35:37
  Really didn't have any because like I mean they were abused but
• 1:35:41
  that's not a redeeming quality for anybody.
• 1:35:43
  So it's one of those weird situations were like, you come
• 1:35:45
  across somebody. Like I'll use the example of
• 1:35:49
  Chris Brown. After that situation happened
• 1:35:51
  with Rihanna. He came went on like late night
• 1:35:54
  TV and he like talked about how like it was wrong but he himself
• 1:35:59
  was abused by his father when he was little.
• 1:36:01
  And like all you can say in that situation is like Okay, go get
• 1:36:07
  help. Yeah it said of further like
• 1:36:10
  spreading the horribleness. I was about to say.
• 1:36:12
  What's that? What's the phrase we use?
• 1:36:15
  I mean me and Terror use it. What was that for the kids?
• 1:36:18
  Like not to. It's like a generational thing
• 1:36:24
  that General generational trauma occurs and shit like that.
• 1:36:26
  Yeah, we do. Yeah.
• 1:36:27
  Yeah, yeah. Like don't don't spread that to
• 1:36:29
  your kid. Oh, I was just thinking about
• 1:36:31
  that the other day like I was like, listen I have spent a
• 1:36:33
  considerable amount of time and Energy and money going through
• 1:36:38
  therapy. So that I do not.
• 1:36:43
  Bring down the same trauma that I experienced.
• 1:36:46
  When I was gonna before, I was adopted.
• 1:36:48
  Like, in this case alone, I couldn't go into much detail
• 1:36:53
  about the situation with the force-feeding because that is
• 1:36:56
  something that happened to me when I was very little.
• 1:36:58
  And it is why I have such a weird awful relationship with
• 1:37:02
  food even now. Hmm.
• 1:37:05
  And that happened to me like before I was like, six years old
• 1:37:08
  that my grandmother would try and force feed me food.
• 1:37:11
  It is, trauma that still makes me like choked up every once in
• 1:37:15
  a while. So, I'm like, Jesus, like before
• 1:37:19
  you procreate, make sure you have had put your ducks in a
• 1:37:22
  row. Yes.
• 1:37:24
  But I hope you can bring us into something a little lighter.
• 1:37:29
  Brittany, I'm gonna tell you this story broke my heart.
• 1:37:33
  Oh, great. This is just a bad time.
• 1:37:35
  No, no, no, your story broke my heart about what happened to
• 1:37:43
  Sylvia Likens? I didn't know it was as
• 1:37:45
  extensive as it was. I didn't know.
• 1:37:47
  Like when it started like yeah, I almost cried like, twice, it
• 1:37:50
  was terrible when I was writing this.
• 1:37:54
  Then like you were like, oh, I can't okay to the podcast.
• 1:37:58
  Saturday's. Like what about tomorrow?
• 1:37:59
  You're like oh I can't do it yet.
• 1:38:00
  What about tomorrow? I was putting it off because I
• 1:38:03
  didn't want to tell the story. They put it all today.
• 1:38:09
  We did bump it like two times recording.
• 1:38:11
  OK. It's ok.
• 1:38:13
  I'm sorry for anybody. Who's listening, who felt
• 1:38:16
  particularly traumatized we did too.
• 1:38:19
  Unfortunately, do it for the content?
• 1:38:22
  Yeah, here's your content. Aunt, Edie's major some content
• 1:38:27
  enjoy. But yeah, no.
• 1:38:30
  This is one of those situations. Just frustrating.
• 1:38:33
  Frustrating. Frustrating, frustrating it
• 1:38:35
  never got better. Okay, well you got for us, let's
• 1:38:42
  lighten this move because this is the fuck, reach, a keyless.
• 1:38:47
  Okay, I'm gonna start this off by reading a quote to you.
• 1:38:50
  Okay. I'm going to try to do it in my
• 1:38:54
  voice and your fancy voice actor, voice and know, and I'm
• 1:38:58
  gonna mock somebody. So I'm going to, I'm going to
• 1:39:00
  try to do it in his voice as much as I can, okay.
• 1:39:06
  In 2014. I had a nightmare where I'm a
• 1:39:10
  spirit hanging out with other spirits.
• 1:39:13
  And I show them this trick, I can do moving an object on a
• 1:39:16
  table without touching it. Like I like what I tried it
• 1:39:20
  against Paris to do during my investigations the denim
• 1:39:24
  suddenly in front of a door and I can't control my body and a
• 1:39:28
  door opens a 12-foot tall. Goat figure is standing there
• 1:39:33
  and dark black. Smoke comes out of his mouth and
• 1:39:38
  I'm forced to inhale it when I wake up my lungs hurt.
• 1:39:43
  And I know that this was some serious shit.
• 1:39:47
  That meant something I'm sitting here trying to figure out what
• 1:39:51
  voice you were doing. I was that big ants.
• 1:39:57
  Oh my God. You're right.
• 1:39:58
  Okay, you're right. He does do that, like weird.
• 1:40:01
  Um, did you do to make fun? One of Michael's people.
• 1:40:09
  So that quote, was, from Zach's movie do, you know, house, like,
• 1:40:13
  watch that 18. I tried to watch it as much as I
• 1:40:17
  could. It has real mixed reviews on
• 1:40:20
  Reddit people. Some people are like, very angry
• 1:40:23
  about it. I kind of was just like, I don't
• 1:40:27
  know, like, I don't know why. I still like Zak Bagans.
• 1:40:31
  I just do. I hate his voice so much.
• 1:40:35
  And I was like this, like how he was saying like the last part,
• 1:40:39
  the Poveglia Island episode from like way back like 20 seasons
• 1:40:44
  ago is one of my favorite episodes because that was the,
• 1:40:47
  that was one with the, what you call it but vaguely Island was
• 1:40:51
  where they had the Black Death. The people who were they put in
• 1:40:56
  Italy? Italy, sent the people who were
• 1:40:57
  dying from the plague down. Yes, right yes.
• 1:41:01
  Okay, it's a good episode. There's also a very long time
• 1:41:04
  ago but It's just like I hate how he he talks and his voice
• 1:41:10
  and like he talks like my kids are trying to imitate me.
• 1:41:13
  Like, you're talking real good dude.
• 1:41:15
  You know what I mean? Hi, I'm Brian.
• 1:41:17
  The series of videos that they released during quarantine are
• 1:41:19
  some of my favorite because they go through and they talked about
• 1:41:22
  previous cases and they watch it, like, they washed it in like
• 1:41:25
  a movie theater by themselves and they talked about stuff and
• 1:41:28
  I thought like the behind-the-scenes nature of it
• 1:41:30
  is very interesting to me, but there is stuff that goes Hunters
• 1:41:33
  do that show that I don't like Like Yeah, from a like, TV show
• 1:41:37
  perspective. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:41:38
  It's the same way that haunted on Netflix, like tries to make
• 1:41:41
  it seem more scary than it is. Yes, I have just given me the
• 1:41:46
  good story. You didn't need to like add the
• 1:41:49
  weird like here's the thing that bothers me, right?
• 1:41:51
  I'm watching a show, right? And they're trying to do EVPs
• 1:41:54
  mmm and there's background music and there's background sounds
• 1:41:58
  like I can't holy sounds. I can't hear that EVP?
• 1:42:01
  Yeah. But anyway so talking Demon
• 1:42:05
  house. So yeah let me get a photo.
• 1:42:07
  Oh interesting I'm so surprised as much as I dislike Zak Bagans
• 1:42:14
  and maybe the Ghost Adventures crew because of you know just
• 1:42:17
  just as bad TV this is fucking bad TV and what is it maybe this
• 1:42:21
  is my version like you know like one of my co-workers watches The
• 1:42:25
  Bachelorette like religiously and she's like it's just good
• 1:42:28
  trash TV. Maybe Ghost Hunters for knows.
• 1:42:31
  He's good pair is it's bad paranormal TV and my love it.
• 1:42:35
  Oh my God. Watch it till the day.
• 1:42:37
  I die like. Then I'm a hornet like there.
• 1:42:41
  But, you know, as much as I just like them, they're basically
• 1:42:43
  like everywhere. I try like I want to look
• 1:42:46
  everywhere, you want to go there?
• 1:42:47
  Yeah, everywhere. Exactly.
• 1:42:49
  So you know, I give that I gave it up to him for like, they're
• 1:42:52
  investigating side note. If you check the discovery Plus
• 1:42:57
  app because I should have sent you the password you did, there
• 1:43:00
  is a like three-hour-long like Pennhurst Asylum, like Type
• 1:43:05
  thing they stayed there for like well past like two weeks look
• 1:43:09
  Brittany his his movie was an hour and a half, it's not from
• 1:43:12
  him, it's another group, okay? But another group of people stay
• 1:43:15
  at Pennhurst for like two weeks. It's not bad.
• 1:43:16
  As what the sea level is our have reverse table trying to
• 1:43:19
  watch. The only wants to 20 minutes, it
• 1:43:20
  has like I'm done regular episodes are 45 minutes.
• 1:43:24
  It's only like a double look. And then I was like, okay let me
• 1:43:27
  go I go back and try to finish watching it so I watched it for
• 1:43:31
  like another hour and I was like, okay, okay, you've seen
• 1:43:34
  most of it. Yeah, I see most of it.
• 1:43:36
  Okay, but did you watch their Tiger King episode?
• 1:43:40
  I did. That was comedy.
• 1:43:42
  I know I did not, and I was like, what does it got to do
• 1:43:44
  with paranormal stuff guys? Haunted Tigers.
• 1:43:47
  Well, no, they brought in cadaver dogs and got hit.
• 1:43:54
  Oh, for potential bodies. That might have been discarded
• 1:43:57
  on the property, like, tigers. Well know people that, I mean,
• 1:44:02
  Joe Exotic was doing some real. Oh, yeah, I know, I know.
• 1:44:05
  So and they apparently like people who work there said that
• 1:44:08
  there was like an area on the outskirts, where they would like
• 1:44:10
  throw all the dead like carcasses for me, everything.
• 1:44:15
  And, at some point, they said somebody tried to like climb
• 1:44:17
  over a fence and they got got who and thrown in the pile, got
• 1:44:22
  it. I guess I'd watch that sometime
• 1:44:25
  whatever I'll do whenever whenever I'm feeling bored and
• 1:44:28
  that's happens to me. Like honestly lately, I've been
• 1:44:30
  falling asleep to go shows and I don't know if that's good for my
• 1:44:33
  general psych but like, I don't know.
• 1:44:35
  It's exact Megan's voice does make me feel sleepy.
• 1:44:38
  Yeah. Because it's boring as fuck
• 1:44:39
  anyway. Anyway, won't you my story
• 1:44:43
  today? Anyway, today I'll be going in
• 1:44:46
  to get the emmalin's haunting or the house of two hundred demons
• 1:44:51
  or as a lot of people who know Demon House.
• 1:44:55
  Oh, I didn't know that was what it was called.
• 1:44:58
  Yeah. If so I feel bad because I
• 1:45:00
  definitely watch that whole little thing and I don't
• 1:45:02
  remember that at all being said, so, So I guess I have to give
• 1:45:10
  some credit to, you know, Zack for this since I did watch the
• 1:45:14
  movie and you know, some, so where's so our researchers are
• 1:45:18
  over that. Some of it, not all of it like a
• 1:45:20
  little the last part. Yes.
• 1:45:22
  That's all your games that last little bit and you gotta wait
• 1:45:25
  till the end of mystery here by right then, I will wait till the
• 1:45:28
  end. So, anyway, let's get to those
• 1:45:31
  stories. So in November 2011, When the
• 1:45:37
  Toya Emmons in her family, move into a house in Gary Indiana.
• 1:45:44
  So it's her family is her mother Rosa, Campbell and her three
• 1:45:50
  children their ages are 7 9 and 12.
• 1:45:55
  The 12 year old is her daughter. The two other children are her
• 1:45:58
  sons. Okay, soon as I move in or I
• 1:46:03
  guess not as soon as moving but soon Some big black flies start
• 1:46:09
  to swarm in her clothes off. You know, how to have that close
• 1:46:13
  iPad porch, right? The same thing that always
• 1:46:15
  happens in every. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:46:17
  Basically, the main story which is that fly suddenly appear in
• 1:46:21
  the dead of winter, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:46:22
  It's in yeah, it's in December. If December 2011 and also in the
• 1:46:26
  Amityville house as well. That was a situation.
• 1:46:28
  Yeah, Zach also mentioned that he thought this was going to be
• 1:46:31
  his next, a manner, the next Amity.
• 1:46:34
  Why do you see? Listen.
• 1:46:36
  A while. Since I watched I watched it.
• 1:46:37
  Like, as soon as it came out, I'll be really honest.
• 1:46:40
  I think I got Discovery plus so I could watch it and I just have
• 1:46:44
  been paying for it because now it's got so much good content on
• 1:46:47
  Discovery plus, I'm not doing any more clothes from until the
• 1:46:50
  end and so I'm done with this. But yeah, he did say that he
• 1:46:54
  knows will be the next Amity and it should run because because of
• 1:46:57
  the Flies and stuff any because it started with flies.
• 1:47:03
  So yeah, it's December. And you know how, you know, No
• 1:47:07
  everything dies. That's one reason why I love
• 1:47:09
  fall and winter is because flies die all bugs die.
• 1:47:13
  They go or they hibernate whatever, I don't care what
• 1:47:16
  happens to him. They're not around me anymore.
• 1:47:18
  That's true, that's true. That's why I like to come out
• 1:47:20
  more in the fall and winter because I don't have to deal
• 1:47:24
  bugs. But you know, it's December.
• 1:47:28
  How are these flies, you know, out on a porch like this?
• 1:47:33
  Either way, the Flyers were killed.
• 1:47:36
  But for some reason the Flies were always come back Latoya's
• 1:47:40
  mom, Rosa Campbell is reported saying we killed them and kill
• 1:47:45
  them and killed them but they kept coming back.
• 1:47:51
  I mean I guess flies can come be around in a code time cold
• 1:47:56
  months in wintertime like inside your house, you keep it warm in
• 1:48:00
  there anyway so I I guess if like you're getting fruit from
• 1:48:04
  other places and the fruit dies because their stuff on the yeah,
• 1:48:10
  I think that's I mean, but these aren't fruit flies are like they
• 1:48:12
  said, they were like, what? Like I mean they can't survive
• 1:48:14
  freezing temps. No, there's no absolutely not.
• 1:48:18
  And they don't hibernate, either most of them.
• 1:48:19
  Don't know. There are some hibernating five
• 1:48:21
  species from other countries. So next time, big ol Hornets.
• 1:48:27
  Oh my God, come back, that we great.
• 1:48:29
  Not the murder ones. Like the ones that attacked the
• 1:48:32
  cicadas, they scare the crap out of me.
• 1:48:34
  I just hate cicada killers. Yes, there's a bunch of them out
• 1:48:38
  front because it's the Cadence and it.
• 1:48:40
  No, they don't but they dive bomb the area and it scares the
• 1:48:43
  crap out of me when I'm waiting to go to work in the morning.
• 1:48:46
  So I end up walking out to, like, the street away from like,
• 1:48:52
  where the nests. Are they scared the crap out of
• 1:48:54
  Me, I see. I see.
• 1:48:55
  They just had a big stinky stinky B.
• 1:48:57
  They do have the big looks like a big singer but it's, I guess
• 1:49:00
  it just for the kicks, the part where they attack the cicada and
• 1:49:03
  murder it. It's not for us.
• 1:49:05
  Like when I first saw home, when he first likes are appearing.
• 1:49:08
  I was like, what the fuck is this?
• 1:49:09
  Because I don't really like playing around stinky things.
• 1:49:12
  My one friend works in landscaping and one day, he
• 1:49:15
  likes showed up to a property and they were all over the place
• 1:49:18
  and he like called his boss. And was like what are these
• 1:49:20
  bugs? Yeah.
• 1:49:22
  And like his boss was just like R called cicada killer, as he
• 1:49:25
  said, if you don't want to Brave the landscape, you can just file
• 1:49:30
  this as a, in an inaccessible property.
• 1:49:33
  My God. He was like, they were scared.
• 1:49:35
  I was like, right here called me was like, have you ever heard of
• 1:49:38
  a cicada killer? And I'm like, I was just telling
• 1:49:41
  Mike a about these fuckers. The other day we were getting
• 1:49:45
  off the bus and they were all over these bushes near the
• 1:49:48
  bowling alley. It was a weird.
• 1:49:49
  Yeah. Hmm.
• 1:49:52
  But anyway. But anyway, back to flies, we're
• 1:49:55
  all over the place tonight. I'm so sorry.
• 1:49:56
  People, listen, so next in the story, Rosa starts to see this
• 1:50:02
  shadowy figure just pacing out in the living room at night.
• 1:50:08
  So she goes to investigate, you know, see who the hell's in the
• 1:50:11
  house and as soon as she gets closer, the shadowy figure like
• 1:50:15
  vanishes. but, She found wet boot prints.
• 1:50:23
  Where is this figure was at? Oh no.
• 1:50:26
  Yeah. She also claims to have been
• 1:50:31
  choked by an unknown Force. Unfun in the house as well.
• 1:50:36
  Yeah, I know it's not kinky at all.
• 1:50:39
  Not the kind of fun that we want.
• 1:50:42
  So let's do it. Latoya and Rosa, they claim to
• 1:50:46
  hear footsteps from the basement steadily making their way up the
• 1:50:51
  stairs. Then the basement door opens.
• 1:50:56
  And nobody would be there. There we go.
• 1:51:00
  Nice poop. Yeah.
• 1:51:04
  Okay so one night it's like some some sources say it's a
• 1:51:11
  sleepover I think it's it's a sleepover because that's what I
• 1:51:14
  get from those sources but some sources add some more stuff to
• 1:51:17
  it. So one night, one more toy is 12
• 1:51:22
  year old daughter. She's having a sleepover in her
• 1:51:24
  grandmother's room. Was when her friends.
• 1:51:26
  Now their relatives over at the house they're mourning a death
• 1:51:30
  of somebody in the family. When Latoya sees her daughter
• 1:51:39
  asleep floating above the bed. She yells to Rosa?
• 1:51:47
  Yeah, well she also rolls into coming to the room and check it
• 1:51:50
  out. So her Rosa other family
• 1:51:54
  members, they go into the room and days basically like this
• 1:51:58
  from round the bed and then they start praying around it.
• 1:52:02
  Oh God. And then like there's praying
• 1:52:06
  for a while and Eventually she stopped flowing.
• 1:52:10
  I'm not sure it was the crazy guy.
• 1:52:12
  Yeah, I'm not sure if it was because of the the praying, but
• 1:52:14
  probably not. As, you know, she's just
• 1:52:16
  floating. She wakes up and she has no
• 1:52:21
  memory of this happening at all. Yeah, Sparrow the relatives that
• 1:52:25
  were there left and refused to come back ever.
• 1:52:28
  Ha, ha, I mean totally understandable, but still funny.
• 1:52:32
  Yeah, You're like oh we're gonna have a potluck.
• 1:52:38
  Do you want to come listen? Last time?
• 1:52:43
  One of your kids was like two feet above the bed.
• 1:52:45
  I'm gonna have to pass. It's like what your family knows
• 1:52:49
  that you got roaches like. Well you got those really got to
• 1:52:52
  know. You got those ghosts up in
• 1:52:53
  there? Oh my God.
• 1:53:02
  It'll be me and a ghost chilling during this talk a selfie.
• 1:53:07
  There's like a random hand behind you.
• 1:53:10
  These are demons not go straight that I wanted to get enzyme cool
• 1:53:13
  with ghosts but not demons. And really I'm not cool with
• 1:53:16
  ghosts. If we're honest, this is true.
• 1:53:18
  I just want to hang out and watch them.
• 1:53:20
  So during this time the kids are missing school irregularly
• 1:53:27
  behaving, weird request problems that raise concern.
• 1:53:35
  Latoya had her physician come out.
• 1:53:38
  His name is oh I did not look up.
• 1:53:39
  His last name was I'm going to say his first name is name was
• 1:53:41
  Jeffrey. Jeffrey basis.
• 1:53:44
  No Jeffrey only okay. Own only yes.
• 1:53:48
  Something how do you spell it? Oh and yeu KW.
• 1:53:53
  You know, thank you. See exactly.
• 1:53:55
  So anyway and he Witnesses the kids acting like they're
• 1:54:03
  delusional. So the kids are taken to a
• 1:54:09
  hospital and an IR. Oh boy.
• 1:54:12
  He seems like he's fine but the youngest the 701 he's about he's
• 1:54:17
  like thrashing around and like fighting everything.
• 1:54:21
  I don't know when this happens that this next part I want to
• 1:54:25
  tell you but I'm going to say When they're back home, but I'm
• 1:54:31
  going to just add it in here right now at some point, the
• 1:54:35
  nine-year-old goes flying across the room.
• 1:54:38
  Oh no, no explanation at all. Nobody knows what happened to
• 1:54:43
  you just was drawn by an invisible force, okay?
• 1:54:48
  But yeah, so at home, I guess not at home.
• 1:54:52
  So, They're at the hospital, right?
• 1:54:59
  So DCS or CPS whatever you want to call it the different names.
• 1:55:06
  Different states is all the same, I think any call welfare.
• 1:55:09
  Yeah. You know, they come check on the
• 1:55:11
  kids at the hospital I think I remember this part of the movie.
• 1:55:15
  Okay so the case manager Valerie Washington has a privilege of
• 1:55:21
  doing the initial best investigation while she was
• 1:55:25
  interviewing is seven-year-old. He starts growling.
• 1:55:29
  It's growling at her. So now I got this from Wikipedia
• 1:55:32
  and that Wikipedia says that this happens with I thought it
• 1:55:35
  said with a nine-year-old but I think the nine-year-old does
• 1:55:37
  the, I don't know. Anyway, they mean, I don't mix
• 1:55:41
  up a little bit. Okay, so be careful, resources
• 1:55:45
  kids. Anyway, the younger boy, he
• 1:55:50
  grabs. So she's in the room.
• 1:55:52
  Interviewing the seven year old, but he's in a room with his
• 1:55:55
  nine-year-old, brother. Okay.
• 1:55:57
  So the younger boy grabs, his brothers throat and start, you
• 1:56:01
  know, starts choking him. It takes a couple adults to pry
• 1:56:06
  his hands off of him. later on Valerie and an RN, they, they
• 1:56:17
  talk to the boys and accept another separate exam room and
• 1:56:22
  This is where it starts getting weird.
• 1:56:24
  So again the seven-year-old is growing at his brother, then he
• 1:56:29
  starts saying things, he says um it's time to die and but you
• 1:56:36
  know what kids do be saying, weird stuff like that.
• 1:56:38
  I know he think you my kids do kids are weird well, you says it
• 1:56:44
  in like a deep voice. He's like it's time to die and I
• 1:56:47
  will kill you. Okay, things like that.
• 1:56:53
  At this time. Oh right.
• 1:56:55
  Rosa is also in this exam room with them.
• 1:57:00
  So that's their grand mom and she's like holding the nine year
• 1:57:05
  olds hands and he's like, kind of head-butting her in the
• 1:57:09
  stomach for some reason, I'm not sure why.
• 1:57:12
  But you know, he started acting weird so he begins to smile a
• 1:57:17
  very, very creepily and as he still holding his, what Rosa?
• 1:57:23
  He starts walking backwards towards the wall.
• 1:57:28
  I do remember that. Down.
• 1:57:32
  And like, he doesn't stop at the war.
• 1:57:34
  He starts to climb up the wall backwards.
• 1:57:37
  Yep. Like Spider-Man style.
• 1:57:41
  Yeah, so holding hands with Rosa.
• 1:57:43
  I remember this. Okay, he's in flips from the
• 1:57:48
  wall over Valerie. And I said, this whole time you
• 1:57:53
  still holding roses hits in Like is just creepy.
• 1:57:58
  Like how are you doing this? We were just walking up to a
• 1:58:01
  like, as yeah. I saw this and I was like, hmm,
• 1:58:05
  that seems weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:58:10
  Oh, right. So there's this picture, I'm
• 1:58:13
  gonna be seeing this picture. There's this picture of the
• 1:58:15
  house is of the exterior of the house, of course, and in it, you
• 1:58:21
  can see like White is Shadow and I don't know what you would call
• 1:58:27
  that. It's a white shadow, okay?
• 1:58:29
  I just I love saying it because I love watched her bubble in his
• 1:58:32
  like white shadow. Okay, this is way too shadow in
• 1:58:36
  one of the windows, no one was home at the time so it was
• 1:58:41
  published by the Indy star. Okay?
• 1:58:45
  With the caption saying it was taken by the him him on the
• 1:58:50
  police, but the Hammond, Police chief said that it wasn't an
• 1:58:56
  official police photo and it wasn't taken by any police
• 1:59:01
  authorities. So, okay.
• 1:59:03
  I don't know. I don't know where they got this
• 1:59:05
  picture from. So yeah, whatever know I could
• 1:59:09
  have just been something. Somebody did.
• 1:59:10
  Yeah. True, true.
• 1:59:11
  True. Okay.
• 1:59:14
  So DCS swoops in and they take emergency custody of the kids
• 1:59:22
  Valley. Washington reported that the
• 1:59:24
  children were experiencing the spiritual and emotional
• 1:59:27
  distress. Now, this was all you know,
• 1:59:30
  temporary placement of course, so DCS.
• 1:59:36
  They said that Latoya neglected, the kids write it like why she?
• 1:59:40
  She neglected their education by Having them in school regularly.
• 1:59:46
  Apparently this was also an issue back in 2009 when she did
• 1:59:51
  the same thing with them. So he is like three years before
• 1:59:56
  they moved into this house. So I don't know what the issue
• 1:59:59
  was back. Then the toy is said that the
• 2:00:03
  spirits would make the kids sick.
• 2:00:06
  Or that they would, you know, keep them up all night long,
• 2:00:09
  right? Okay.
• 2:00:11
  That's why I didn't go to school.
• 2:00:15
  The kids were evaluated by a psych by some psychologists and
• 2:00:20
  they came to the conclusion that the kids were probably just
• 2:00:22
  playing along with their mothers Theory or you know, how her
• 2:00:25
  stories and you know, just trying to appease her.
• 2:00:28
  No, no. I understand what they're
• 2:00:29
  saying. Yeah.
• 2:00:32
  So what she's at her like her Wits End?
• 2:00:35
  Right now the kids are gone demons in the house.
• 2:00:37
  People think she's crazy like it's rough.
• 2:00:41
  So she comes. So in comes I'm Reverend
• 2:00:46
  Michael. Oh I did not get your last name
• 2:00:49
  looked up either. It's I'm gonna say, magnet
• 2:00:52
  Maggie Maggie, not Interviews the family.
• 2:00:58
  Well, the toy in her mom and he believes them like he notices
• 2:01:03
  that you know the house is weird.
• 2:01:05
  Energies off Vibes not you know he did a Vibe checking it was
• 2:01:09
  not right. He determined that they were
• 2:01:13
  being tormented by demons as well as Latoya was being like
• 2:01:18
  she's probably possessed by a demon.
• 2:01:22
  And he told Latoya and Rosa, she's not saying a house.
• 2:01:25
  So they go live with some relatives for a while.
• 2:01:30
  So we're going to fast forward this because I'm just going to
• 2:01:32
  get to the meat disposal, the end part, I guess.
• 2:01:38
  Um, so Rebel micro he comes in, he exercises, the house and
• 2:01:42
  Latoya, right? And is accessed.
• 2:01:45
  So, Latoya is then reunited with her children.
• 2:01:50
  And after everything happens, they move to Indianapolis.
• 2:01:58
  So that's basically the story of that.
• 2:02:03
  So let's go into some of the Skeptics.
• 2:02:06
  I'll just do like the Skeptics. I know, I know, but I gotta
• 2:02:14
  because they're good Skeptics, okay?
• 2:02:17
  Like I said, she had her physician Jeffrey coming, right?
• 2:02:20
  And he was as he said he was skeptical the entire incident.
• 2:02:25
  Like he didn't like when he came to know about it with the kids
• 2:02:28
  and stuff like that. He said, he didn't notice
• 2:02:30
  anything paranormal. He just said that they had
• 2:02:35
  delusions of ghosts in their house and or hallucinations.
• 2:02:42
  And like I said, the children had a history irregular
• 2:02:45
  attendance. So that was like a claim that
• 2:02:49
  was placed back in 2009. But yeah she she claimed that no
• 2:02:56
  it was the ghost that were keeping them up.
• 2:03:00
  Let's see what else, right? Okay.
• 2:03:06
  So this is funny Charles Reid, he's a landlord that, you know
• 2:03:13
  running this house out to her. He said he never experienced any
• 2:03:17
  Supernatural events at the house, right?
• 2:03:20
  I do remember that the new owner doesn't feel anything.
• 2:03:22
  Right. Huh, that's funny.
• 2:03:24
  I'll get to that later. Also, like his prior assignments
• 2:03:28
  to her moving in there. They never experience anything
• 2:03:30
  either. He said that Latoya was behind
• 2:03:35
  on lease though and use the the Paranormal claims to avoid
• 2:03:40
  making payments to her. They can rent payments.
• 2:03:43
  I don't know. Because I remember seeing the
• 2:03:45
  lady and she was like she was so afraid of anything to do with
• 2:03:51
  the house. That is true.
• 2:03:52
  She would not The fact that he had been in it at all, she was
• 2:03:55
  like you're not allowed in here. Yeah.
• 2:03:57
  So you can't even come be near me.
• 2:03:59
  You were in, she's like, have you already been in the house?
• 2:04:02
  Yes, you can't. Come here because Denton
• 2:04:05
  zach-bots it eventually, right? Yes, this is where.
• 2:04:07
  Hey, yeah. This is actually what we're
• 2:04:09
  going to do next. So, yeah, in 2014, mr.
• 2:04:13
  Zachary Baggins Beggin Beggin Beggin.
• 2:04:18
  I'm sorry. He says that the beat of every
• 2:04:19
  episode. I'm sorry.
• 2:04:21
  I'm Zak Bagans. Zak Bagans.
• 2:04:26
  Remember, it was all over the news and then he said a lot of
• 2:04:29
  like weird stuff happened. You didn't kept stopping him
• 2:04:32
  from doing the investigation, want it?
• 2:04:34
  Yeah. It I guess it took him about
• 2:04:36
  three years to actually film this this movie.
• 2:04:39
  He said that like there was legal stuff, there was like
• 2:04:43
  people quitting on him. I'm sure that always happens at
• 2:04:46
  that. Yeah I mean people quitting and
• 2:04:47
  people getting sick because of the location.
• 2:04:50
  Yeah. but yeah, so he bought the house in 2014 and so This, you
• 2:05:04
  know, this is public, everybody knows about this stuff, you
• 2:05:07
  know, so one of his medium friends gets in touch with him,
• 2:05:12
  right? Um, did you see this part of the
• 2:05:17
  friends that died? No, it's a guy.
• 2:05:19
  Okay? Because there was another person
• 2:05:21
  that died, I think while he was making, it's a Chris Fleming,
• 2:05:24
  okay? So you see, text Zach and I want
• 2:05:27
  to read you this text message. Okay, okay, so it says hey bro,
• 2:05:32
  hope you are right and not possessed already.
• 2:05:34
  Just got off the phone with Adam Bali be safe.
• 2:05:38
  So visions of this demon being very, very large, almost like a
• 2:05:44
  hulking type figure horns, turns her back and centaurian.
• 2:05:50
  Feet, be careful Adams things. It's an 8 out of the 10.
• 2:05:55
  On a demonic scale below Satan himself when it comes to
• 2:06:00
  possession. Like one of one of the generals
• 2:06:04
  Well, I think the thing that was interesting to me was they never
• 2:06:06
  really spent like a whole lot of time there.
• 2:06:09
  No, not really. They, that, that was surprising
• 2:06:13
  to me. It wasn't a very big property.
• 2:06:15
  No, no. I was actually most interested
• 2:06:17
  by the interviews with the like social workers and attorneys and
• 2:06:23
  people. Yeah, folks that were there you
• 2:06:24
  like her family? Also frightened.
• 2:06:26
  Yeah, her family that came on woman who Like she went there,
• 2:06:32
  like she was there for the crawling up.
• 2:06:34
  The walls said. Yeah, this is Valerie, and then
• 2:06:36
  she quit and moved to another state.
• 2:06:38
  Yep. And was like, I'm good.
• 2:06:40
  I'm done with working with those definitely Valerie, children
• 2:06:43
  forever. Like, for me, I feel like that
• 2:06:46
  is the kind of thing that legitimize this stuff because
• 2:06:48
  that's somebody who's seen, like probably some of the worst
• 2:06:51
  situations can ever imagine. Yeah.
• 2:06:54
  Like something that would make someone who's an in an on-site
• 2:06:58
  in-house, social worker. Quit their job and never come
• 2:07:02
  back to it. They saw something terrible.
• 2:07:05
  Yeah. But um, Yeah I guess so.
• 2:07:11
  Yeah exact you know this is his house.
• 2:07:14
  You know? He Film this movie there, then
• 2:07:21
  demolish the building right in 2016.
• 2:07:27
  So, I'm believing that because I believe what they were saying,
• 2:07:32
  was that it was becoming because he wasn't actively living in it.
• 2:07:35
  Yeah, it was becoming a site for people to show up and try and
• 2:07:38
  scare themselves for breaking in order this waters, getting calls
• 2:07:42
  from the cops consistently. So it was just easier to
• 2:07:46
  demolish the property. Yeah.
• 2:07:48
  And now it's just empty and like, you know what, you're
• 2:07:52
  going to do pitch a tent on the property, you'd be all right.
• 2:07:56
  Oh my I God. And, um, So you saw the movie,
• 2:08:01
  right? Oh yeah.
• 2:08:02
  So they're like, I think a couple times he did get like,
• 2:08:05
  you won't, he felt bothered, he felt possessed.
• 2:08:09
  He had lost track of time. Like, um, one of the security
• 2:08:13
  videos, he was having an argument with one of the guys,
• 2:08:18
  one of the camera guys freaked out.
• 2:08:21
  Yeah. And like lost it and then the
• 2:08:24
  camera guy said that he saw something on the basement, the
• 2:08:27
  hallway it was somewhere back at the Tell you like because I
• 2:08:31
  believe it was Aaron or one of the other people who does the
• 2:08:34
  tour is like the actual ghost things with him.
• 2:08:36
  Yes. Aaron like pulled his camera and
• 2:08:39
  you just see the guy like Pace in the hallway.
• 2:08:41
  Having a total and complete meltdown.
• 2:08:43
  They were like a hope. They weren't a hotel, a hotel
• 2:08:45
  nearby. And he was, he just ran out of
• 2:08:47
  his room. He started, he was loud and
• 2:08:49
  cussing. He just ran into something.
• 2:08:50
  And then he said he went to get in the elevator and he opens the
• 2:08:53
  door. And yes, I, yeah.
• 2:08:55
  And he was cussing at it and he's just like to the top of
• 2:08:58
  the, yeah. He's like what's going to El?
• 2:09:01
  Exact was like was home to elevator.
• 2:09:03
  Bro, is like what's going on? Is like nothing whatever's in
• 2:09:05
  the whatever if anything's in here is a bitch.
• 2:09:08
  Like that's what you're saying. He's like your because he was
• 2:09:11
  called to take a bitch the whole time and was scared too.
• 2:09:15
  Yeah. Like It's just I was just okay
• 2:09:19
  well maybe you saw something okay but saw something but no
• 2:09:24
  Zach himself was like possessed. Zach is as had those experiences
• 2:09:29
  before. Yeah.
• 2:09:31
  And there's always lots of, you know, discussions about it.
• 2:09:36
  It's obviously not a traditional possession.
• 2:09:40
  Yeah, in what we think of because there's there's
• 2:09:43
  different stages, two possessions.
• 2:09:45
  This is true. And we've talked about those in
• 2:09:50
  past podcasts. Yeah, and warns episode 02
• 2:09:54
  Warren episodes back-to-back. This is true.
• 2:09:58
  But yeah, there's lots of because you have the what do you
• 2:10:02
  call that? The it's not Obsession.
• 2:10:03
  It's the oppression. This oppression infestation and
• 2:10:07
  I think I feel like if I say she is a beginning, the first one of
• 2:10:11
  those moments that Zach has are more oppression based, its him
• 2:10:17
  aware that there is something they're trying to bother him.
• 2:10:21
  Yeah, I don't I don't think he's really fully, you know, possess
• 2:10:26
  because that's something that doesn't happen like that.
• 2:10:28
  That, you know, it takes a while.
• 2:10:30
  Well, the process, the, the oppression process is breaking
• 2:10:34
  the person down. You have trouble sleeping you.
• 2:10:37
  You can't eat, you become physically weak.
• 2:10:41
  And then once you're physically incapable of fighting back, the
• 2:10:46
  thing, trying to gain access to you.
• 2:10:48
  That's where your possession. Yep.
• 2:10:50
  Takes over cell. But yeah, that was my story of
• 2:10:56
  the Demon House. More demons.
• 2:11:00
  Look at you. I like, I don't know.
• 2:11:02
  Demons are interesting. See that's what's so interesting
• 2:11:04
  to me. I am thoroughly.
• 2:11:05
  That's a real fear for me demons.
• 2:11:07
  He possessed just waking up in the middle of night.
• 2:11:10
  See, one Shadow Demon in your corner, just Spider-Man and off
• 2:11:14
  the wall. Well, no, I have a situation in
• 2:11:19
  college where I definitely felt the whole concept of Of
• 2:11:23
  Oppression. I started having these
• 2:11:24
  nightmares and everybody in the nightmares were we were all
• 2:11:28
  people I love and they all somehow ended up dying in front
• 2:11:32
  of me every time and they happen to consistently and constantly
• 2:11:35
  for weeks and weeks and weeks. So I'm trying to go to school.
• 2:11:39
  Yeah. And the dorm and my dorm room by
• 2:11:41
  myself. I'm I just one of those things
• 2:11:46
  where I'll never know, was, I hallucinating from lack of
• 2:11:50
  sleep. He had a mean, but I was sitting
• 2:11:52
  in my room by myself. I remember there was a situation
• 2:11:57
  with the TV turning on like, more than once and me actively
• 2:12:01
  turning it off. I remember looking at the wall
• 2:12:04
  and my roommate, had this stupid fucking picture of these like
• 2:12:09
  two guys carrying each other. And one of the middle was like
• 2:12:13
  drunk and they were carrying the one.
• 2:12:14
  It was said, teamwork. I remember looking at the
• 2:12:16
  picture and it looks like the picture changed and then I
• 2:12:19
  remember having a solid sense that there was something in the
• 2:12:24
  room with me and it was just out of range of me, being able to
• 2:12:29
  see it like breathing, I could hear it and I legitimately like
• 2:12:39
  covered myself in a pill and I was like, oh my God, my Bible is
• 2:12:42
  under my bed and I can't go look for it because, you know, you
• 2:12:45
  have those like, tall College beds, you're right?
• 2:12:47
  And I called one of my friends, the only as like I called other
• 2:12:51
  people and people didn't pick up and I called my one friend
• 2:12:54
  possibly the most religious person I know.
• 2:12:57
  And I like I was freaking out and I was just like, I just need
• 2:13:01
  you to like, talk me through. I don't know what to say, I
• 2:13:03
  don't know what to read. I don't know what to do in the
• 2:13:06
  situation, and then the next day while, Oddly enough, she had
• 2:13:10
  like a whole container of holy oil and she like showed up the
• 2:13:15
  next day and she's just like, oh, yeah.
• 2:13:17
  Whenever I move somewhere new, my mom, like, she's like, my
• 2:13:20
  pastor told me how to like bless places before I move in.
• 2:13:23
  Yeah, and it's honestly something that I do now to, you
• 2:13:25
  know what, I move into a new location II believe in smudging
• 2:13:28
  things, and I believe in also blessing properties.
• 2:13:31
  That's very funny. You know why?
• 2:13:33
  Because in this story, so today it was told the same thing to,
• 2:13:38
  you know, get Olive oil and water blessed and you know,
• 2:13:42
  bless the house and Stuff, Plus her children like putting on the
• 2:13:44
  children's foreheads. Oh, right.
• 2:13:46
  Right. But that's after it's already
• 2:13:47
  there. Yeah.
• 2:13:48
  So before I move into a location, like but when I like
• 2:13:52
  from that point on when I moved to a new apartment or a new
• 2:13:55
  dorm, yeah, I do certain things before I move in, but the funny
• 2:13:58
  part is like she did Issue splashing on the oil and stuff.
• 2:14:01
  Everywhere is then they claim to find like this substance, like
• 2:14:05
  on the blinds and stuff, like, oily, and slick, and sticky and
• 2:14:09
  like, It was not just the stuff you get splashed everywhere.
• 2:14:12
  But they said that they like tried to get it tested and they
• 2:14:14
  couldn't figure out what it was. I didn't see that part.
• 2:14:18
  I mean, if it is the same thing, that means she was going pretty
• 2:14:21
  ham. Yeah.
• 2:14:22
  Just like because it was only supposed to like coat.
• 2:14:25
  Every surface. It was dripping down the blinds.
• 2:14:28
  I saw that. Yeah.
• 2:14:29
  Cuz didn't he also see that same substance?
• 2:14:31
  Yeah, it was there during the recording.
• 2:14:33
  Yeah, so that wouldn't have been left over.
• 2:14:36
  I hope not from years later. I hope not.
• 2:14:40
  But yeah, I just remember when he tried to talk to the one that
• 2:14:42
  the one woman and then I remember that, didn't he have
• 2:14:45
  the one like ladies kids there? And the one girl tried to yank
• 2:14:50
  her own life after she was in the head.
• 2:14:52
  Yes. Oh my God.
• 2:14:54
  So much stuff I haven't because I forget who it was but she as
• 2:14:57
  like before they even got to the house like a niece or nephew who
• 2:15:00
  got brought back and that girl that girl tried to hurt herself
• 2:15:03
  after they left. Yeah she did like we had before
• 2:15:06
  he even got into the house like she felt something like kick her
• 2:15:08
  or something like that. At.
• 2:15:09
  And I mean, the other factor to here is I hate to say this, but
• 2:15:16
  like, Entities, or things of that nature.
• 2:15:20
  Like these are intelligent beings according to the rules
• 2:15:28
  and The Lure true, when you focus on who you thought was
• 2:15:35
  weaker, if your goal was to take them over normally.
• 2:15:39
  Yes, that's what you're supposed to do, right?
• 2:15:42
  So like maybe it wouldn't be the kind of thing where everybody
• 2:15:47
  who comes into contact with that house is bothered by it.
• 2:15:51
  Hmm, maybe for some right maybe because of the previous abuse.
• 2:15:54
  And things like that. That happened within that
• 2:15:57
  family, they were already in a weakened State.
• 2:16:01
  Might be, you know, and well, like why would you go for the
• 2:16:06
  harder person to convert? Yeah, that's a movie thing.
• 2:16:09
  Where they're like, a, how I'm a demon.
• 2:16:11
  I'm going to try and get the priest.
• 2:16:13
  You're not. You want the one who's?
• 2:16:15
  Well. Yeah.
• 2:16:16
  You want the kid? Who's got the Ouija board
• 2:16:19
  playing by themselves in the middle of the night?
• 2:16:21
  That's the kids. You take out?
• 2:16:23
  Yes. Get you a Damien.
• 2:16:28
  But anyway, that was our longer podcast than usual.
• 2:16:32
  Yeah, I kind of figured it would be longer if you listen to thank
• 2:16:35
  you. If you listened all the way to
• 2:16:36
  the end thank you so much. Yes, I do appreciate it.
• 2:16:40
  We love you guys. And one thing that I forgot to
• 2:16:43
  also mention, was that as far as the patreon goes, if you
• 2:16:47
  subscribe in the first month, I am going to I might keep this up
• 2:16:51
  indefinitely for patrons but But I will put either your name or
• 2:16:57
  your social media handle and a video and it will live on my
• 2:17:02
  tech talk, which currently has 760 thousand people, we are
• 2:17:07
  chugging along to a million. We're probably going to get
• 2:17:09
  there by December goodness possibility here.
• 2:17:11
  Yeah. By the end of the year so you
• 2:17:12
  will get to see you know you'll get to have your name as someone
• 2:17:15
  who supported us forever. Yeah, also also and like the
• 2:17:22
  title card for the YouTube. If we ever eventually catch up
• 2:17:28
  with putting our videos, whenever I see you, you post
• 2:17:31
  like two at a time, and I'm like, oh look at that.
• 2:17:33
  I'm trying, I understand. Listen, you're doing what I
• 2:17:35
  don't want to do so I totally appreciate you whenever I'm
• 2:17:39
  bored. I'm like oh you know I could do
• 2:17:40
  right now. I'm a little more videos to
• 2:17:42
  YouTube. I appreciate your bright eyes.
• 2:17:44
  Like oh look at that. There's a Ryan Faye.
• 2:17:46
  Copeland it just went up. But yeah, thank you.
• 2:17:49
  So Much for listening. You can always find me every day
• 2:17:52
  or every other day on cop podcast that Tick-Tock.com.
• 2:17:56
  Yeah, to time.com. I guess took it is i.com.
• 2:17:59
  But mainly it's the website it's called podcast.
• 2:18:01
  You can always view our website which is www.hyken.com and that
• 2:18:06
  has links to every social media that we are on.
• 2:18:09
  I have been trying to post more on Tick-Tock Facebook.
• 2:18:13
  I'm trying to spread out, you know, post popular videos that
• 2:18:17
  are popular on Tick-Tock on other platforms.
• 2:18:20
  I am contemplating potentially making more exclusive content
• 2:18:23
  that is only eligible for patrons only right so that
• 2:18:29
  they'll be Tick-Tock Style videos, but they will only be on
• 2:18:32
  patreon and let's see that way. Like stuff that Tick-Tock has
• 2:18:38
  been like taking down. Hmm, I can post on there and not
• 2:18:42
  have to worry about it being censored.
• 2:18:44
  What I do have like two stories thing on patreon.
• 2:18:47
  So yeah. Brian is going to be trying to
• 2:18:51
  move, I believe next month twitch to Friday's several times
• 2:18:55
  a month. Fridays and Sundays.
• 2:18:56
  I'm trying to I'm trying to do more than a.
• 2:18:59
  I love it Triumph and more active.
• 2:19:02
  Yes we would love your support there and yeah if you left a
• 2:19:07
  really nice review, We like you love so much.
• 2:19:10
  Someone recently got mad that we didn't like the Yorkshire Ripper
• 2:19:13
  documentary and I'm not sorry. Oh well no, no, sorry
• 2:19:17
  documentaries for every person. Yeah, I'm sorry.
• 2:19:19
  It was like personally I can't watch the Chris W 1 not because
• 2:19:22
  it's bad quality but because it's so good it's unsettling and
• 2:19:26
  upsetting. Yeah I watched it.
• 2:19:28
  I was like, oh my God, all the footage of the family just is so
• 2:19:32
  like got wrenching. So you know some stuff doesn't
• 2:19:36
  sit well with certain people but we're happy you're here and we
• 2:19:39
  thank you for your support. Yes, good night.
• 2:19:42
  Good night.