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Building an Inclusive Future: Inside Jewson’s Transformation with Laura Lawler · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, their boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Shied away from the real talk.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and make sure you cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:33
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• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast, the show that seeks to inspire, empower and give you that dose of confidence to balance career, kids and everything in between.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, elizabeth Willis, and I'm absolutely thrilled to introduce our guest today, laura Lawler.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Laura is a HR Business Partner at Juicen, which is a leading supplier of sustainable timber and building materials in the UK.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: She brings a wealth of knowledge and experience from her extensive career in human resources At Juicen.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Laura's work extends beyond the traditional realms of HR, focusing particularly on diversity and inclusion, and she's here today to share some insights with us.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast, laura.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: It's such a pleasure to chat with you and learn more about your experiences.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you for asking me.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to it.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I'm really excited about our chat.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: So obviously in human resources, that's something you've always wanted to do.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Was that a great use?
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I hope to have one.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: You were a little girl growing up.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: No, well, I think I went to UD and.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I chose that as the subject and I've worked my way through advisor, hr manager, regional roles in Juicen, which is completely different because prior to this I worked for Makeup Ingo.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So, from entertainment to builders, merchants so yeah, very, very different, but a lot of similar challenges, but probably from an opposite point of view.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely so.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: you're one of those people that actually did the subject that you went to doing as a university.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: You did it.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did it, and it's very much the that's the theory, I think, at uni because it's never so black and white in HR but it is and obviously in the different industries as well.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But I think for me this one has been the one with the most opportunity and challenges in it, Certainly from that diversity point of view, because I've came from the Debenhams and Asda Comet very retail, focused and based in entertainment, to very male dominated builders, merchant, trades, person industry.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: So completely different for me and the opportunities are huge.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what was it that drew you into Juicen then?
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: I think through the recruitment process I was interviewed by the regional director, alan Davidson, and the opportunities that when we talked about diversity and his male-female mix, his part-time mix, he could just see the opportunity we could do to change the culture, change the perception of juicing, because when people think of juicing you think it's dirty, it's all male.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: You need to be a trades person to even go there as a retail customer and you would need to know that.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: All, obviously, all the things that we say, we say everything that you could build a house from bottom to the top.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: So it is.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: And I went to visit some branches before the recruitment process and every branch is different, every style is different, but you could see this potential here to change the perception and some of our colleagues at work for us, some of the females I've interviewed to see what was your perception before you joined and it is that starting a man it's male, dominated, does low career progression.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: So that's where I'm working to change that and I think once they join they see that it's different.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: But how do I get them to come and join us and see that it's different?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It's not what you think it is, it's a bit like bingo, though everybody thinks you call the numbers, but it's just a lot more than that.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So it's probably there are several challenges, but this one definitely attracting females who wish a career is difficult.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've been using juice and I've just finished a house extension, so I've probably been one of your biggest customers.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: We definitely had a lot of juicing and bags and things like that.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: And, you know, as a consumer, have they said to your website regularly and we do have a branch actually in our village as well.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: So, yes, as a consumer, you know, I'm really happy to go there.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I've been really happy with the service.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: So how would you describe them?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: So you joined.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: You obviously wanted to join the company, make an impact, change perceptions.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: How would you describe what the culture is?
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: So how long have you been at juicing and how would you describe it?
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been here just about 18 months.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I think the culture piece for me is when I joined, everyone was full time and you had to work 44 and a half hours and that was it, and I had even some like maternity just trying to say no, I need to come back 44 and a half hours.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I was like that's not necessarily need to do that.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: So it's changing that I need someone in full time.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: But what if I can match the trailer for customers?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: So we're really busy in the morning.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: I'm a really busy later because people pick up stuff in the morning to go to the job and then at night they'll come in and get stuff to go to the job in the next morning.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: So we do flux and trade wise throughout the day.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: So just educating the managers in the piece of it would you rather have more people in the morning and more at night and quiet in the middle of the day when you don't need them?
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, but I need them there all the time and as like.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Well, explain to me if it was your business.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: What would you have?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: So it's been that wee education piece of how can it work.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: The other thing that when I first started I went and met a lot of the colleagues in the branches and I spoke to one of our colleagues in, Jessica, who was a student, and her answer to me was that I love working here, my brother's jealous because I work here and as I go to the main event.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Well, as a student, you don't really need to work in a bar, you need to work at night, you need to very service-oriented.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Suppose I work one day and I sat her the morning in here and I make more than I would if I worked in a bar, I suppose, and I could still go to the weekend, I could still have my social life and I could still attend uni.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Now she was a fashion student.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: What was the chances of a fashion student coming working in, just standing working in?
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Let's just say our uniform is probably not the most attractive uniform.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: For a health and safety point of view.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: It has to be what it is.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: But she loved it and just here, in those words, my brother's jealous because he has to work at night and I don't, and I was like that's an opportunity there.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: We could really drill into that opportunity and just say that the guys like for me, the student population we're really busy in the spring and summer because people do their gardens, people do a lot of DIY in that period of time and that's when students are off uni and are available to work.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: So my concept was well, if you bring them in for that one day a week through the winter when you're quiet, and train them and get them ready when you peak and you need more people in, they're available.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: I've met some colleagues where I've spoke to and branched, such as a colleague in LARGS, and I said what made you join us?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Why did you come and join us?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: She went.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: If it was full time I couldn't have joined, but the fact that it was part time I've joined and I love it and the team love her.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So it's just that education piece for me that don't have to work 44 and a half hours, he don't have to be an industry based person.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: The most important thing is your customer service and your skills to speak to people and it's about your behaviour and attitude.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: So it's changing that because when I first started I heard I need somebody from a builders merchant.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: And when you say why?
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Tell me why?
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Because we can train and develop and get them product knowledge.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Why do they need the experience?
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: So it's been hard.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit and say it's been easy, it's hard and it's still hard and we are only just started, but my reaching at my RD is really passionate about it, which helps because he's leading from the front on it, so that helps me.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Then educate the teams and stuff.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: And we did a video at our conference.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: We based it around the old style of needs to be a merchant.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: It needs to be this I'm not getting involved in partying to what it should be and Alan did the video of both parts.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: He played both parts, which was really good, and it was like showing a mirror to some people to say that's how you sound and that's what it looks like.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a challenge.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: We are nowhere near where we need to be, but we're doing different things to try and help improve it and we have improved the numbers.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: We've measured the numbers.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: It's getting better.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: But what?
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: do you know if you mentioned what your numbers like looking at?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So for juicin as a whole from a part time basis.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: We've got 402 part times.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: That's not a lot, but 109 of them are in my region.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: So a quarter of juicin's part time people work in our region and that's only because we've focused on it and some of our best talent coming through is those part time colleagues.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: We did an example of an recruitment piece in the northeast of England.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: We advertised a full time job.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: We advertised a part time job.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: We got eight applicants for the full time, not of the best calibre.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: We advertised it part time and I get 80 applicants.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: So the choice of my applicant pool was a more higher.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: So I had more choice and the calibre was much better.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So we've put in giving.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Being able to give operators those kind of numbers helps you sell that listen there doesn't need to be so rigid.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: We've just appointed our first part time branch manager, which we've never been heard of.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So part time female branch manager.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: So that would never have been heard of because it would need to work full time.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: That's not the case anymore.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: We can accommodate it.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Let's see.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I need them to think now how can we make it work as opposed to we can't do that.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: That's not what we do in juicin and we are getting there and we're thinking around it differently, yeah so there've been people listening to this.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: There've been people, obviously, that want to work part time and think it sounds great.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: But there'll also be people that work maybe in HR and they're very and also really brought into two part time and want to implement that in their organisations and potentially, of finding that resistance, like you are you did, you know and they're having to sort of sell the benefits of part time to their board, their managers.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: So can you give us some tips about how you've basically brought the management team I think there's two sides operators focus on that bottom number.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: So, if I can improve your customer service, get your customer service more efficiently and effectively because you've got more people in, when you've got more customers in, let's start with a blank row, or how would it look?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: How would it feel?
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: How would your customers want it?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Would they want to wait 10 minutes to be served, or would they want to be served right away?
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Or would they want to come in through the day or in the middle of the day when there's no one in?
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: That's not when they come in.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: That's not the shopping experience or the retail experience that we work with.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: We've got a lot of female customers.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: How do you think they make them feel when they come in and it's a female behind the counter?
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: How does that feel?
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: How it makes them think?
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Do you know what?
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: This is?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: An inclusive organisation.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say focus on the bottom line first.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: How can I make it?
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Because I'll help you make more money.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: I'll help you make more money because A not everyone will work four and a half hours.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So as soon as someone's all sick or is on holiday, you can put four and a half hours to the police.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: We're, if you to say 20 hours and an eight hour, you could flex any of them up.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to help your business because you have the coverage and you won't have a blind panic when somebody goes off sick.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: A you'll have more pool of flexibility, talent, career progression etc.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Within your branch.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Different personalities, a good mix of male and female in a branch.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: You can feel the difference in the atmosphere.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: You can feel the chats different, the atmosphere is different.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: It's completely night and day.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: When you walk in a branch and we still do have branches it's all males.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as a female customer, as a female member of the team, it's quite a calm, intimidating.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: So it's breaking down those barriers.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I've got a lot of strong females in those branches as well.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: But the branches where there's no females, you can feel the difference, definitely feel difference, but focus on the number first and then give examples where it works.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So that part time recruitment piece when I was able to see eight applicants eight applicants here's what I got.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Then I worked on introducing them to some of the people that we've brought on part time.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Here's what they think of just before they joined.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Here's what they think now.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is that the kind of people we should be recruiting.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Even things like welfare facilities was a big coming from leisure and retail.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Welfare facilities are priority.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: You wouldn't get in bingo and stuff like that.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: The toilets facilities that must be clean.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Everybody knows if you go to a pub or a restaurant if the toilet's aren't cleaning.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: That's what you remember and you won't go back.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: When I first started doing just this, I'd say let me see your female toilets, let me see them, what are they like?
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: And then I got to the stage I was taking the managers in and going would your wife's daughter or sister or would someone like to use that toilet?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Because I wouldn't, and it's just showing them and going would you?
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: No, no, why have you not changed it?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Well, I've not got any female staff.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: But what if you have a female customer that would like to use the facilities?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: And it reads from store rooms to fire extinguishers too.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: So we've worked hard on that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: We've invested a lot of money in capex to improve the facilities, because, as a female fan going for an interview for a job and I use the facilities, I think I don't know how can I work here when I can't even go to the toilet.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: It's not even there.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: This is really, really helpful and I'm just thinking like this is such good food for thought for anybody in like HR type role is trying to change a culture Basics.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: well, unlike nodding my head, saying yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just that it's a basic, it's a basic human right to go to the toilet, to be able to go to the toilet, feel comfortable, not any worry, and I've seen all sorts and those.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: And again I had Alan with me, the RG, and I was like, come and see the toilet and when I must, I took him in more toilets and I've took him in.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I took the branch manager down and going.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: I was thinking is this acceptable?
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: It's not something.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And I just think this is basic.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Now fix this.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Female should want to come and work here and feel comfortable working here.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: And in some places we didn't have a female toilet.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: We had.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Obviously, as in, you're just thinking, fix it.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Just, these are basics.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And then we've looked at the development of people as well, and even our induction on a set day.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: And will we work part time?
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: How can they do that?
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: We'll change it, we'll move it, we'll be flexible on it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: We do a development course.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: We can change the dates, we can move it flexible.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: So we do career emerging leaders, it's called.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: We do various different courses.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And again it was quite rigid of these are the set days, and now it's like, well, if you work part time, what days you work?
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: How can we accommodate you to do it and we encourage people to progress through it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: So yeah, as I say, I'm just at the start of it.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I've only been here 18 months but already I'm starting to feel and see the change we've done.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Just recently, we're working with I'm sure I've told you about Lucie, who's a female footballer, and we met with Lucie, so she's going to be our ambassador to help us attract more females into that male dominated industry, because she was able to relate to us yeah, I mean yeah, 100%.
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Well, even like changing rooms and how it feels and going into the football stadiums and stuff like that.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: So she's been great.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: So we've got her to come and spend some time with our colleagues, ask questions about challenges they've faced, and we're going to get her to do some work and a day in the life of because people, that perception of what it's like to work in just, and it's not like that the main feedback I get is it's like a family but you would never
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: think that they're very close and they look after each other in every branch and that's a big thing because some of the branches have only got five people in them.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So they are, they do become very close.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: So she's noticed that we're speaking to the colleagues what it's like to do their, what she's also looked at as how we can progress so we can get your fault lift license, we can put you through your HGV and LGV license and we've got females doing that.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: I've got female people in the yard and I spoke to them as like, do you like to work in the branch?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: No, no, I'm in the yard.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I love the yard and I mean I was in the yard the other day and it's a female who's driving the forklift and dealing with in the customers and stuff like that.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: So there is a change but it's got a long way to go.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: But Lucy and we're hoping we've put it on length 10.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: We're going to do that work with her.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So we've got more filming next week to get her to come out and spend the day.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: She's actually spending the day with one of our tool hire colleagues who repairs tools.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So, like diggers and all the kind of tool hire equipment we do.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: She does that and she started as a part time and now has progressed in full time in tool hire and we're training up to basically fix tools.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: So there is opportunities.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: But if you speak to him outside just now and I said what's it like to work here, they're just going to say it's dirty and it's all men.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's got a long way to go.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: As I say, I don't have a, I only got at the moment 14% female.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: So it's not the numbers aren't high, but the ones.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: What was?
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: it.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Can you remember what it was 18 months ago?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: think the female mix was probably in the 10% bracket, but it's the part time mix for me because they're now I've opened the door to the part time mix, I'm gaining more traction.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: But I've even got I've got like so some single dads that work for us and said they didn't think they could come and work for us because of childcare and they now work for us as well.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: So even the male part time mix is up at 219 males that work part time.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I think what would have an impact?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Not everybody wants to work 44 and a half hours, just they want that work life balance.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: So I mean for me we've got 64 females part time and 45 males part time, so I've got 109.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: It's not too.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: It's not too big a gap, then.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, my male, female, no, and it's that.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: There's the education piece of what do you actually need?
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Do you need something for havers, or could you have someone in theatre as a name?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Cover your student population as well and give you a bit more flexibility around your role and demands, your business and then you get responses like oh, I've never thought about it like that.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Maybe it could work or it will work, and then we'd have got it really working.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I get there.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So peer to peer, it's good.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So I get peers to speak to them and say, listen, it works, and stuff like that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: This is how I make it work.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I've got people who do job share, but they do it themselves, so they're always got.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: I've got two in command who do job share and they both agree who does what I was, and as long as the voter patterns covers, the branch manager is completely happy.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: So we can be totally flexible and it's good.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And I've had people initially say to me I didn't think I could be a branch manager and work part time, but I didn't think I could be a branch manager and I'm all which is just.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: I was like, why can't you do it?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I say you can be flexible enough to make it work.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: So it's changing the perception.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So I think we're on the right track.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: But I do.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you're doing a really good job and it's not just attracting those people, but also it sounds like you're doing a brilliant job promoting those people because of all the training that you offer and how accommodating you are with those training days.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: You know you're really a brilliant example of a firm and there isn't enough firms like you employees well-being at the heart of your culture and what is going to benefit your employees.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Because you've got it that you know if you treat your employees well, that they treat the customers well and obviously then it really does benefit you in your bottom line.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: But I think you're such a good example of a company that is really thinking about that employee culture and how to make individuals feel important, which can be hard.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: It's important to me as well.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: I want it to work.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: I mean I sit down at the table just now the regional team and there's three females around the table.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Why I want it to be 50-50, if not more, females around that table, and we're working hard to do that because I need that my teams to see.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: You know what you can progress, you can get success and we can develop it, and you know what an amazing industry to be in.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Our customers are fantastic as well and they're always busy.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: They never hear a quiet builder or a quiet tradesman, and we've got some amazing personalities and I just think if we tap into that talent, we could make a difference, and I can see more females around that table.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if they're tradespeople.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: They're the same customer that's coming in day in, day out.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: It's actually, if you like talking to people and you like that relationship building because you're going to see the same cut.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: It's not like you'll see one cut.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Stir up once If you're seeing the same.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: It's a really nice job to develop.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and the customers all know the team and stuff like that and what we've tried to do is as well, because it is very product-led.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Tradespeople will come in and know exactly what they want.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know it's been a start.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: New people were a bit nervous behind the counter and thinking he's going to ask me or she's going to ask me for something and I have no idea what it is.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So I picked up an idea, actually from Screw Fix, where they have on their badges I'm new and I noticed the change in the customer where the person with the new badge was a lot more patient and gave the colleague a bit more time.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So we've put that in as well, just in it.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: But we've also given the colleague the opportunity to say you decide when you put your normal, the new badge on.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: It's up to you.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: You can keep it on for a week, you can keep it on for a month, it's entirely up to you to give you that back confidence that people know that you're new.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: But you decide when you take that off and just put your name on your badge.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: It's like a learner.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: It's like a learner drive, isn't it?
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you do.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know when I see somebody I'm learning and I'm training you do take a wee step back and just go take your time, it's fine.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: So we've done that as well.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: We're working with them.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: In fact I've got a call with the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce this afternoon to see how we can maybe attract more.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: If I'm in a place in our trade college in uni, could I get them to come and work for me in a Saturday or through the week just to help them build their product knowledge, giving the trade they're in.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: How do I get more young females to think about an industry, our career and construction and builders, merchants?
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: So I've got a call with them.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: So we try to think a bit differently.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: We're doing a bit as well at the moment with the Scottish Prison Service to help work with placements, come into the industry for a period of time.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: So I'm just trying to think out the box and try and change that perception.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: So I think if I go from the kind of school uni piece and then I go from the LinkedIn social media piece and then obviously out with the Scottish Prison Service, is slightly different.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: So I just need to change that perception.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: I've also asked that from a recruitment piece we can start to show our females in the branches and talk about that flexible working piece.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: So at the moment for me, when I put on an ad and I'm sure you'll go out with a recruitment partner, I will challenge and say I want part time.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Let me see the caliber of the candidates that you've got.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Most of your roles do have that, though they can work full time at part time.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: It's very rare.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I can't even think of an example where I've not had that from you actually no.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: We've got female drivers in that as well.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: We've got part time drivers, we've got zero hours colleagues that pen and draw put and give us their expertise as well, so we can be totally flexible.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Another thing is we're not on social platforms, we're not evenings, we don't treat our friends Just thinking of the one that's in my village.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: It's local.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: If you wanted to drop the kids off at school or whatever, a lot of people don't want to be too far from the school if the kids are going to need to be picked up or whatever and hopefully I haven't too often.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: But you are very local.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: You're often in villages or places like that so someone wants to work really close to home.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: You can if you know.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's cool, I was.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: We can definitely accommodate in school hours and I think that's the focus that you can accommodate that as talent earlier Only what it works.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: You know, we can look at that, we can do that.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: You know, on the way home I pass your brand.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: You know there's lots of months that pass your brand.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: So who you know that passed the branch on the way home?
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: And our grandparents maybe you know looking after grandkids and maybe we could do an extra few hours.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I think what I want to change is the perception when I speak to the colleagues that are joining us why did you join us?
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I don't just want to hear because my dad's a customer or my brother shops here.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: It's because I wanted to work for Justin.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: But that's the key bit of changing.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: I want to clear with Justin and that is one of the girls that we're going to do the day in the life of that was our answer.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: It was my dad's a customer.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: You weren't my first choice.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And I was like well, how can I make us the first choice?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: So, asking these people how would I make us the first choice?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: What would it be?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And she's like well, you see, now that I'm here and I can go from a foot life license, I can do that.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I was like but I need you to think like that before even you join.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: So when you apply, she's like you need to show the more need to more people.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that you really train people, you offer that training.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good, a lot of people.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: You know people often start a job and do something else and it's not for them.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And I need to know that you can have, you know, retraining, paid retraining opportunities, because you've got a lot of those that aren't paid and and you know you're getting paid from day one to develop a new career, which is a great opportunity for any, you know, for anybody, isn't it?
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have sales teams as well and sales executives and stuff like that who actively go and visit sites, speak to our customers and sell our trade, really sell our business.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: So we've got various different avenues you can work your way into it's rather than just in the yard, which is the perception of people that it's in the yard.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: It's either pulled in way and done, and it's not just that at all.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Brilliant.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So you're obviously we spoke before your mom is 23.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Now Laura definitely doesn't look like she has a 23.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: So I mean, how did you balance things?
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: I know you weren't working for juice when he was younger, but do you want to talk us through?
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: You know how.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: You've obviously had a really good career in HR.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: You've been in HR a long time, so talk us through what the early days were like.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I think it's hard.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell you it's not hard and I was on my own with Ben for a few years, which becomes challenging.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I had my parents in there who watched Ben, which was a great support.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: And it's hard to get that work-life balance because I did work full time and then my job.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I had to be away sometimes as well.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I found it challenging, but I think for me I'm at the stage of my career now.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I manage my own diary and yeah, there's demands from the business and stuff like that, but there's also things that is vitally important that I'm here for Ben and I plan that time around about it and I make it work.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: In owning my own diary and managing it.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's crucial.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It's hard because you might have missed school sports days, I've missed school plays and I think at the time it's just like I'm the sole breadwinner.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: I have to give him what he wants and what he needs.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I had to do that.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I had the opportunity again, would I probably work?
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: See if I could work less, probably, I'm being honest, because you'll get that thing back.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I was very lucky.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: My mum watched Ben, which was great, but I did miss out on a lot Trying to build a career, but now, even now, he's still demanding it 20.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: So you can just say Does he live with you or does he live elsewhere?
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: now, no, he lives elsewhere but he's still just as demanding.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: He's moved out a year ago and it's strange yes, empty this centre in my house, but I'm all right with that because I'm made of resin and a bit of it, but he's it's demanding.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: But you have to be selfish sometimes as well, and I think it's changed a lot over the years because I think you could still have that career that I've got now and work part time.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: But I think when I started, I don't that wasn't an option.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, I live in the West Coast and I was working in Adenville, I was working in Barrow, I was working in Glasgow just to try and build that career.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I was a weealore, but now I've made my own diary in my time to try and ensure that I don't miss out on those big occasions and stuff like that as well.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: But it's really hard.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: But if you've got the opportunities to think now to have a career and make it work better, then I would take it.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: And I think organisations have changed now.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: The days of you had to be full-time to have a career.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: They're gone.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I would like to think that certainly dwindling, and I think it's great because there's talent out there that should be working and having that work-life balance.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: It's too important and I think COVID has changed that for a lot of people as well.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: There's so much more hybrid working and things like that which allow people and I think it's taught us that that you know what.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: You don't need to be in an office.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: You don't need to be in a location to be productive.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And I think the challenge in yourself of some of the journeys that I have to do if I'm driving, say, four hours up, four hours back for a two-hour meeting is that productive Are just getting the best out of.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Could I be more productive?
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: And doing it as a team's call, or maybe doing various other branches, it's to make it worth my while to do that journey, whereas I think at the start of your career you'll just do it and it go on, it go here and it go there.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Now I'm at the stage of like, right, what's the most productive part of my time?
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: How much is just going to get from me?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: How big a difference can I make?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: It's sitting in a can't, really.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I can speak to people and stuff like that, but I'm not making a difference.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: But I think you're managing your time and taking opportunities when you can.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: For me, this has been a big leap for me.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I was with Bingo for 13 years and the main thing that's so just to me was the opportunity to change culture and that flexible piece and diversity and inclusion was a massive opportunity.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: And Alan working with Alan is definitely.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: We can see the difference, which is great.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: We can see the hard work starting to pay off and feel the difference in branches and speaking to the different kinds of colleagues.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: Then it's worth it.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: But it was a big jump for me because you get an arc and a comfort zone, don't you?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: How long were you in the Bingo organisation?
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: 13?
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: years I was with them.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to believe, isn't it?
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Because you made friends, haven't you?
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: I was approached by Justin, which was unusual again, and I was like, oh, not looking for another job, because I'm happy where I am.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: But when I met with Alan, I was like, oh, this thing's exciting, I feel like I'd make a difference here.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I've still got a long way to go, but it's exciting.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: And it's not that.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we still do the day job, hr, the ER and all of that day job stuff, but in just the moment with us, I feel like we can make a difference and make cultural difference, which takes time.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: So I think we're and I thought, hopefully, the more we do it in our region, that will feed through in an organisational point of view, because we're sharing everything that we're doing.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've set up a power as well just to try and get the colleagues involved.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: I set up a diversity and inclusion forum, so I've split it into three groups.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So I've got, from a welfare point of view, how can we improve it?
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So they've been looking at like so this month they've launched some communications on mental health.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: Next month they're going to look at how do we save through the cost of living.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Then we're going to look at how do we make it easier to return from maternity.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Then we're going to look at so we've done like a calendar, the welfare calendar, like male and female cancers, how do you look out for it?
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: We're going to do some physical challenges, sex challenges in the region.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: And then the other two groups is one is recruitment.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: So I've got them looking at how do we attract more talent, how can we change the perception of us?
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: So they're looking at it as colleagues and also asking their friends and family.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: So they're working on how we change that.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: And the third piece is progression.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: So we've got a mix of male, females, part-time, full-times, on all groups and the colleagues are volunteered to do this.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: So there's 12 colleagues in each group and they're all working towards the how we can make a difference in the region.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: So I think you want there isn't a one size fix, all fix for this.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: That's why I'm trying to just do different things and make an impact, so that it's all round, as opposed to one thing.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that makes sense.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: No, I just, you know, I love this because you get all these organizations that put a lot about diversity and inclusion on their websites.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: They can have pages and pages and then they're just asking for people full-time in an office and there's no thought behind what makes a company diverse and inclusive.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: They just do it like a PR spiel and that really frustrates me, and you are a brilliant example of a company that is the complete opposite of that, and he's really being really thoughtful about how to make your company more diverse, how to make it more inclusive and how to make everybody feel welcome and that they belong in that organization, regardless of who they are and what their background is.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: So I think that is just brilliant.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So thank you, yeah, and the colleagues have been great.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I love the fact that they worked, because we just said this is what I'm going to do.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: This is what I'm saying If I don't get any volunteers, then we won't do it, but let's see.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: And the volunteer mix was great.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I've got branch managers on there.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: I've got in part time male, female colleagues on there.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: I've got sales managers on there.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: I've got a business unit director on there so really good mix and they really want to help and make a difference.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: In that, to me it means we're getting somewhere, we're changing, slowly but surely we're making a change, and even the pride in them they went.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: We've put this together.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Can we send that out?
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, let's get it in the team talks, let's talk about it, and it's about mental health.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: And we sent out things like spotting the red flags and somebody says are they OK?
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Are they really OK?
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: Ask these questions.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And then we just gave them a list of what to do if you need some help.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Here's some numbers, here's some organizations.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: We have our own six MHS who are outstanding for mental health support.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: But here's some other numbers just in case your friends and family need some help as well.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And then, as I say, this month they're doing how to save money which everyone can get involved in very, very timely.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: You couldn't get more time.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Even the guys, the colleagues asked us to do cancer awareness, but from a male and female point of view checking yourself and all that.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: So this is the colleagues coming up with this.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: This isn't me, this is just ideas they've come up with to try and help one another.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: That's where I think that family piece comes through, because they really care about each other.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: How can we make it better?
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: I've had someone say it's really difficult to come back after the belief in it.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: How can we help?
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about it.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: You have experienced it.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: How can we help it so that we know when somebody else goes through it?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So they are good, they are a really good team, and the fact that I've got 36 people who want to help me and do work outside the work to make a difference is great.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: It's really, really good.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I absolutely loved our conversation, laura, and learning more about you and Jason and all the fabulous things you're doing.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So where can people find you, connect with you, learn more about Jason and what you're doing and maybe some of the careers on offer?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I think, obviously there's a stack website because Jason is part of the stack group.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: We just recently were brought over by stack and we are very, very forward.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Like can we diverse the inclusion so you can see the stack group on LinkedIn.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Jason on LinkedIn, myself and Alan Davidson, the RD who I've spoke to, are on LinkedIn.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: He's really passionate about it.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: You'll see, obviously, from LinkedIn as well.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Lucy's on there talking about what we're doing and we will always share our ideas on there of what we're doing and if we're making a difference.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: And do you know what We'll also see when this didn't work.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: We tried this and it didn't work, yeah, but I think we tried.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: But, most things so far are making a difference, but it's continued.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, you'll see us on LinkedIn and Twitter, etc.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: And then on the stack website.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: You can see us there.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Brilliant Are all for all the links in the show now.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Laura, for joining me today.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure to chat with you.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: No problem, thank you.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like a Mon podcast.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your big dreams.