Latest / Skin Anarchy / Samantha Leal, Managing Editor for Well+Good Interview

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Samantha Leal, Managing Editor for Well+Good Interview · Skin Anarchy

• 0:02
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• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to Skin Care Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ecta, and I have yet another amazing guest today.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so so excited because these are my favorite interviews.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um so without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the managing editor for Well and Good.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a digital publication, as I'm sure all of you know, but um hi Samantha.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Samantha Lial is here with us today.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hi, how are you?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'm good.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so so happy you had the time to um come on to our little show.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's very exciting.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I'm so happy to be here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Samantha, I want you to um I want you to go into your career background and just tell me all about, you know, what got you started in beauty and um how did you pick this as your career path?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I yeah, so I start so I'll start from the beginning.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm from uh South Bend, Indiana, which uh is about two hours outside of Chicago.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so um was pretty, you know, uh girly girl growing up as far as really interested in makeup and beauty products, um, and kind of even was more excited to start selling.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first year that um Mark Cosmetics of Avon um allowed people to sell um when I was just date me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, so I was more excited about that than like getting my driver's license, to be quite honest.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I had signed up for that.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, always kind of interested in beauty and that kind of thing.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then um when I was deciding kind of where to go for college, um, I knew I wanted to do writing.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't know exactly what that looked like, but ended up at um Northwestern at the Medill School of Journalism.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there I got to explore kind of a lot of different things, but really get, you know, a true journalistic um education and you know, do man on the street interviews and do news and do fashion and do, you know, all sorts of things.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I I worked on the fashion uh publication there and I just kind of always thought I would go into um fashion and beauty.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And uh luckily right before I graduated, it was a time where there wasn't really a ton of jobs uh in the editorial world.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, being from the Midwest, um, and from, you know, definitely a not not a privileged background in terms of money, I only had had a couple of local internships um back home.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had interned at Glamour magazine.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: That was my first big um internship through Northwestern.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So Northwestern had a program.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the time it was called Journalism Residency.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it's called now, it's changed iterations a couple of times, but um I landed at Glamour um based on you know my love for women's magazines and interned there for uh my spring Northwestern's at quarters, the spring quarter, and then ended up staying summer in New York.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And because I knew that I needed kind of a leg up as far as um being uh a potential hire down the road.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: This is my junior year into senior year, I was like, well, you know, I might as well go for the gold as far as how many internships I can take on.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually did two summer internships at the same time.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, gold.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I had interned um a couple of days a week at Elegant Bride, which is now defunct, but it was um a part of Conde Nast and it was a bride's magazine, basically, um a more luxury imprint of that, and then also uh interned at Latina magazine.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll just say when it came to um applying after graduating, uh, or rather right before graduate graduating, I was lucky enough to uh grab a job, nab a job, however you want to say it.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I mean you worked your butt off.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I worked, I I applied and somehow got a job at the Knot magazine, which was also a wedding publication um working on their sister site, The Nest.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh basically graduated, uh, you know, came to New York with two suitcases and a sublet and uh got started in editorial and haven't really looked back.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I worked at yeah, so I worked at the knot and the nest for a couple of years and then where I got to do beauty um alongside other things such as home decor and food and all sorts of kind of lifestyle topics.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then um worked at Latina magazine after that, where I uh basically came in as the online editor and left um a deputy editor.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I was working on different all sorts of different lifestyle topics, including entertainment um and that kind of thing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then um worked at Marie Claire, where I was the senior web editor, again, very lifestyle oriented, including beauty, and then um worked as a freelancer, so I've been through the rungs quite quite a bit.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have so much experience.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a I'm I'm a generalist for sure.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely done kind of a lot as far as lifestyle, but beauty has always kind of been there.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then um now I'm at manage as I'm working as a managing editor at Well and Good.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: I am so impressed, seriously.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're Wonder Woman for doing all that.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you really were like, you know, you knew what you wanted and you went for.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like only a woman can do that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: We can wear a lot of hats for sure.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think um, you know, it was interesting, because usually in a, you know, I do think my perspective as far as kind of going through these different um roles is a little bit different than a lot of um other fellow uh beauty editors and journalists, just because I have been a generalist for such a long time and working across different um what we would call like verticals or you know, beats or whatever you want to call them.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's been an interesting ride just because, you know, each thing informs another.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, your entertainment background informs, you know, beauty collabs and all those types of things.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, um news informs everything.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's just a lot of overlap, and I've been lucky to kind of um dip my toes into a lot of different subjects.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think being a well-rounded um person, and especially in your career, is like, I think that's the next, like, you know, that's the evolution that of career paths, I feel like.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like the more multifaceted you can be, like the more not only like for getting a job, but it's like the content you're putting out is very meaningful at that point, you know, because you have so many perspectives.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I want to ask you, I want to ask you something real fast though, because I I love that you were in the lifestyle um, you know, the area in the beginning, because I think that that's very important for beauty, just from me looking at it as a consumer.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just because, you know, when you look at makeup and you look at skincare, um, I think you really need to understand, you know, what people use on their day-to-day.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I I'm just curious, do you think the lifestyle component has helped you a lot in terms of how you approach beauty?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's um it's definitely helped as far as um looking through the lens of a consumer.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think um because my beat has never been solely beauty, I can come from a perspective of what I as a consumer would use, what um I see trends and other arenas of lifestyle trending towards and use that kind of knowledge um to inform any type of beauty coverage.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely been a helpful stepping stone for sure.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like you said, anything that kind of um makes your coverage well rounded is always a boon.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I really like that.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I wonder because, you know, many times I think, you know, people get so hyper-focused in one area, you know what I mean?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you lose track of like the like the functionality aspect of like what am I really promoting and what am I really writing about?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, I feel like your perspective must be much more grounded in a lot of ways.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I I definitely strive for that.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think that um, you know, we've seen the evolution of a beauty editor for sure, and it just in general, career paths.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that before career paths and things were just so linear and hyper focused, like you said.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And nowadays it doesn't have to be.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: It can, but it doesn't have to be.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: I want you to actually tell me a little bit about um the ranks in the editorial world because I'm not gonna lie to you.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, we all recognize like the titles in a way, but like what is your role as a managing editor?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big question.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say, you know, dependent on the publication, a managing editor can mean a lot of different things.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but basically, uh in my day-to-day, I'm uh overseeing the website coverage and um helping editors ideate, um, leading meetings to uh for content creation, um, you know, helping editors kind of figure out temples and packages that they can do, and really just making sure that we have a nice mix of content for the website.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of overseeing a lot of different functionalities.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I also oversee editorially art our commerce component.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So just making sure that people are following best practices when it comes to product and product reviews and that kind of thing.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit of everything.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: In most cases, a managing editor is a little bit more um uh connected to kind of the business side and kind of what the goals of the publication and the brand are.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know at all because that's why I asked you.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I really don't know what the, you know, but that's that's amazing.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I I actually want to ask you um, what got you interested with beauty to begin with?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, when you were younger, I feel like we all have journeys, but I love hearing about, you know, women, like just the personal journey we had with beauty, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: So like I want to I want to learn about uh what got you interested in like you know when you were growing up.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, as I said, I was kind of um, I was a very uh reserved child.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that as kind of I grew up, um, makeup and beauty was one way to artistically express myself without saying anything.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was uh, you know, something that I was definitely interested in.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was always interested in media, you know, I was the one, the girl ripping out, you know, pages from magazines and putting them in binders for inspiration and all of that kind of stuff.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of like a core antenna of my life kind of growing up.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then like I said, I I started um getting excited about selling, possibly selling makeup or even working uh in a job to sell makeup.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what ended up happening was when I turned 16, I signed up to sell um Mark Cosmetics.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it was the first year that that was available to teens, um, to anyone really.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was the first year of uh its creation.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um basically signed up to do that and sold Mark through college.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I was selling Mark in high school as kind of like a very passive thing.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh when I went to college at Northwestern, it was uh that was like the the beginnings of college ambassadors.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was like, you know, I feel like it's a very commonplace practice now of like uh different brands having college ambassadors where you're present at events or that kind of like, you know, present in your bookstores, that kind of thing.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But that was really the first year that like that kind of blew up.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh Avon or Mark, however, you know, the the parent company Avon had uh Mark um college ambassadors throughout, you know, different for different colleges.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And one of them was at Northwestern.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I applied and got like a basically a stipend every quarter.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um wow, that's nice.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then it was just like my little my little job.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then um didn't really, to be quite honest, didn't sell a lot if I'm being completely honest with myself.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I definitely um, you know, we did demonstrations at the bookstore and that kind of thing, and it was just like a like a college ambassador program, but always was definitely interested in beauty.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: My, you know, my sister was a manager at Sephora when we were um uh when we were starting our career.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, beauty's kind of just around um and definitely a part of my life.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, I mean it's it's interesting, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think we all are exposed to it in so many different ways.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I I like that you have this like sales background.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you could call it that, sure.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's cool because I I think that, you know, with beauty, um, I'm I'm curious in terms of like for women, um, that we come from different backgrounds and how we merge into this like general understanding of what we look for in a product.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I really want to get your opinion on is like, you know, when you're looking at something in the skincare industry or the makeup industry or anything that has to do with beauty and wellness, how do you um kind of like I guess wade through all of that?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: How do you like figure out what you think is worthwhile versus not?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, thankfully I've been lucky enough to be on teams where, you know, we've had fabulous beauty editors who that's their sole job is to wade through.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so thankfully that was never like a full burden of mine.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, um I think especially nowadays, people are paying attention so much more to, you know, not just the product, but the founders and the mission and um what these, you know, teams are doing and the science behind things.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's just so much more education that's out there when it comes to beauty and skincare specifically.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: But um when I when I as an editor am looking at a product or a brand, I'm really looking at the brand storytelling first and foremost, and then the product and making sure that the product backs it up.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think that especially looking at um a brand storytelling is like, is it pandering or is it actually an authentic story to be told?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think we got a lot of when I was working at Latina magazine, um, you know, I was doing uh a lot of the beauty for specifically for digital.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um we I would get pitches that were like Latina hair.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was like, that's we that's not a thing.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um first of all, you know, and so the language wasn't there um for not only obviously like I felt br bad for brands if that was their um publicist who made that error as opposed to them, but half of the time it was the brand.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was just an not understanding where they fit in the marketplace and not understanding, you know, where what actually consumers wanted and how their products actually worked.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was a whole thing.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then the idea and then a lot of it was, you know, coming.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um that language is often coming from, you know, white uh founded brands who had no idea how to speak to um women of color um or consumers that were of a different set than them.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really, you know, uh a lot of learnings and disheartening to see that.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, from an editor perspective, it was easy to to just, you know, put that out as far as coverage because it's not, you know, uh a part of our of our coverage and it's not gonna be a product that we endorse if it doesn't even get the language right.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's been a big thing.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, as we see much more inclusivity and um uh things that diversity exactly and things that were once considered niche um become mainstream, quote unquote.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that we'll hopefully see more products being brought into light and you know, less less waiting to do, actually.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's honestly that's that's one of the biggest questions I have um for for any editor, I think, is like how do you like what is your advice to brands that really want to be authentic?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, you know, you're you're competing in the sea of like products, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like I I often wonder with especially with skincare, it's like, you know, we have like a million products that are saying almost the same thing, but not.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're saying it in different ways.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, how do you stay authentic and transparent?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, all these things, like all these like boxes that need to be checked off almost.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have any advice for like new startup brands or something?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's actually funny that this is coming up because I'm uh actually an advisor for We Are Ren, which is a new incubator for women of color looking to start um brands.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So check that out, we are Ren, um, R-E-N-N.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the the advice that I would give for those who are even looking to like career pivot into beauty or who or consumers who are just you know interested to see how kind of beauty evolves is that I think that as in most things, when you try to speak to everyone, you speak to no one.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So really figuring out who your consumer is and what they need and what their actual needs are as opposed to what you feel like their needs are, um is is step one uh in any good product.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then also I think that we're seeing this kind of reverberate through uh through the skincare um aisles, really like what's your what's your point of view, what's your lens?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we're seeing we have, you know, a lot of amazing brands that are um coming out, coming out that are like truly about the ingredients and science focused.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: We have hormone-free brands or things that are focused on um taking out uh different ingredients that are often commonplace in products, but we also have products that are um focused on you know mental health or different things like that or self-care.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's really just about honing in on what your what your product is set to do and if it's more than just the product, you know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right, of course.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that's uh that's amazing advice.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I I often wonder if like people when they're crafting their brand or their vision, like you know, what goes through your mind?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because I can honestly tell you, if I sat down right now and I said I'm gonna launch a skincare line, I don't think I would know you know how to stand out right like in the market right now.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I mean it's really interesting.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I but you know, going back to the point you made about the women of color aspect, I really want to talk about that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, especially now when you know skincare is almost like taking, I don't want to say it's like taking over, but it's it's definitely growing in terms of just people wanting skincare versus makeup, you know, for for problems and stuff.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: So what are some things that you as a woman of color, like what do you look at look for?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I mean, I would say that, you know, just like any consumer, I'm looking for things that target my needs, which are generally like I have specific like uh combination skin.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm looking at like hydration, that kind of thing.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I'm looking at things that I know are good for me, whether they be, you know, is it actually marketed as clean beauty or is it really clean from uh different chemicals and that kind of thing?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, efficacy.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: But um as a woman of color, as someone who's looking at, you know, brands and products, I think also another a number one thing is, you know, you you support uh businesses with your dollars.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So looking at founders.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at statements, looking at what brands are doing for diversity initiatives, for things that matter to me, that's important as much as the product itself.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, you know, there's a kind of line of like, yeah, is this product great?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: But also like, what is the brand doing to help this industry be more inclusive or be better?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I think that for women of color, it's interesting, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because everybody wants to ask, like, well, you know, basically what I just asked you, like, what is it that you really want?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, I think for like when I look at it from my perspective, is like just I want to feel like I have a place in the market.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel like feel like I'm normal and you're not like overly stressing the fact that I'm a woman of color, you know, like yeah, totally.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think a big thing too is just um speaking to that authentic factor.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't want to be marketed to if it's just marketing, you know?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's um there's so many amazing brands that are coming out uh that have founders and statements that I identify with.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So those things I can like give, I want to give my money to, you know, and it doesn't always have to, there's so many intersectionalities of being a woman, of being a woman of color, of being um, you know, X, Y, Z.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's different things that I would want to put my money towards.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it's it's an interesting kind of um inflection point, I think, in in the in many industries, but also in beauty and skincare, for sure.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, one another thing I and it's kind of like a you know a question right off that is that um I know when I was growing up, you know, reading magazines and stuff and seeing the girls in the you know in the magazines, it was always like I was an outsider looking in, but I still loved what I was seeing.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember seeing like a perfume I really loved, or like, you know, a spread I really enjoyed reading or looking at, but it always felt like, well, I'm an Indian woman and this woman sitting in front of me is, you know, and she's white.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it was almost like this unattainable beauty I always felt like that I was looking at.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So did you go through that like growing up, or is that something I'm just like tripping out?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely think I had my moments.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's you know, part of the reason I was so invested in um Latina magazine, because it was one of the first magazines where I saw, you know, uh women who looked like me um or who, you know, were of a certain um skin tone and ethnicity and all of that.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that um a lot of times, particularly when I was growing up, there was so many, I'm thinking about like even when Victoria's Secret, Victoria's Secret had beauty at the time, right?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's still dope.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there would be these like spreads where like the woman was so egregiously tan.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and like also magazine spreads where it was like it was like this sort of like exoticism, right?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was this lens of like um yeah, it's exotic kind of uh I hate that word, Sam.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: It should be banned.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: It should be for sure.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I hate that word.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: What is exotic about a huge population of people?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um like it doesn't first of all like verbally make sense, but you know, yeah, it's it's this idea that like it was the you know sirens of the world that you would see on in on covers or like played up in spreads and that kind of thing.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you would only see kind of like my background or skin color or what have you.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um Right.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Not like overly cultural stuff, you know what I mean?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, exactly.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like as an Indian woman, I don't always want to see a sari and a bindy once people.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I want to just like, you know what I mean, just see a normal Indian woman in like normal like outfits.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or even worse, and we and magazines still do this is using, you know, um people as props and having a white model with uh you know tan people surrounding them.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there's a lot to kind of wade through, but as far as kind of growing up and seeing um beauty and and thing and beauty in magazines kind of speaking to me, it's really, you know, it was Latina magazine that really did that first.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then um as I kind of grew up and also worked in this industry, I think there's definitely been been strides made um for inclusivity in that respect.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I still think that there's you know a lot, a lot further to go.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's definitely, you're right.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a road that we need to keep traveling on.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like we are by no means done with this.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I I want to ask you, and this is very, very cliche, but honestly, I think it's important for you know all the young women out there that are like you know, struggling to figure out who they are and what they feel is beautiful, like about themselves.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is there like something that you'd want to tell them, you know?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because and it's cliche, I know, but I remember being a kid and you know getting advice like this and thinking, okay, I don't like it, but then it's stuck in my mind, you know what I'm saying?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like over the years, and I remember like someone said this at one point and it just resonated.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing is whether you're you know looking as a beauty cons like wanting to work in the beauty uh space or um that kind of thing, or just um well, yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess for your career and you know, figuring out where you like really fit into the beauty world in terms of like, well, you know, do I feel like I belong or do I like what speaks to you kind of thing?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the biggest thing is um knowing that your uh your experiences and your background and all the things that make you you are your selling points and your point of difference um in a way that almost, you know, makes whatever it is that you bring to the table more um powerful.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that you when you're a person who is of a different uh background than perhaps a lot of your peers or um, you know, coming from whether that's socioeconomic, whether that's race, whether that's ethnicity, whatever it is, um it's always a better experience to have more perspectives when it comes to beauty, when it comes to media, when it comes to anything.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And the hardest part is just making sure that that's heard, um, because you know, we can talk and talk about perspectives and yourself and um, you know, uh making pathways.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't actually say your thoughts out loud, nothing changes.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that would, you know, translate to beauty spreads in a magazine, um, photo selects on a website, uh, beauty uh products in your bathroom.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Those are all things that someone in a room and many people in a room um had input on.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't, you know, have that voice, if you don't use your voice, then you know you're doing almost a disservice to yourself.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what I think in general about.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: I love it's the best message, I think, because you know, people I think we sit back and we're always looking for like, well, am I included yet?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, why don't you go out yourself and you know try to make that change?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I I get you.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, makes sense, but yeah, I mean, Samantha, honestly, I I wanna I wanna focus on skincare again because I really want to know um what are your favorite products right now?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's so many out there.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I always I I always take tips for everybody, right?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So many out there, yeah, exactly.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so personally, um, I have been loving uh Dr.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Loretta's uh gentle cleanser.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it feels super light, and like I'm not one to boast about a cleanser because I think you can use pretty much a lot of cleansers to do the job, but it just feels great.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, skincare is not only again about what a product is doing, but it's how about about how a product makes you feel.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like a big one for me.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I love the entire Pacifica range, which is like a vegan brand.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they have eye creams, they have toners, they have all sorts of things, and I've just been using their like collagen eye cream because you know the years.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, Pacifica is the one you can buy at Target, right?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's yeah, I think it's in Target.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, I think they just I love that brand.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's like their mask, their sheet masks.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you've tried them, but they're like literally amazing.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I was so so shocked.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I yeah, I mostly use like their um, they have a like a milk uh tone like toner or hydrating toner or something, and then they have this um collagen eye cream that I've been using legitimately for like six months now, and I love it.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um wow, and then that's rare.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Fighting an eye cream is rare, yeah.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And also there's like, you know, there's some talk about whether eye cream is even whether you even need to use eye cream and all of that kind of stuff.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I say if it makes you feel better, a placebo effect is also great as far as happiness.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it does not have to be picked apart, you know what I mean?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's like like I love science, but at the end of the day, I don't think every brand needs to focus on you know dermatology level results, you know.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, like sometimes you really do need to do focus on whatever it is that you really want to put out there.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I I hear you.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think another thing before I get back to some things I've loved is um, you know, you can really just use like what a dove bar and some Vaseline and get amazing results if you keep using it.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think consistency is the factor that that a lot of people forget.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's about using products and continuing to use them.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, that's kind of almost as important, if not more important, than like the product itself.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's amazing products on the market, but if you don't use them correctly and continue to use them, you're not gonna see results.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's 100% my biggest tip.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, skincare doesn't have to be expensive or anything, but um like continuing to use the products is is the biggest uh hurdle.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I also am loving um Summer Fridays just launched their Cloud Dew gel cream um uh like hydrator, and it's also amazing on the skin.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't noticed, I love things that are light and make my hair.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm noticing a trend here.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's a big one for me.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're yeah, it's it's I highly recommend.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I love summer Summer Friday products, exactly.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's uh it's another winner.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I actually had interviewed um Mariana and uh Lauren Four in in style piece on when they launched their brand.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also that is such a great brand to look at for um, you know, uh a point of view, a specific point of view and understanding what their consumer wants.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, and then I think um I've been loving I think I talked about this in another uh uh kind of Instagram live I recently did.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I I keep shouting it, but it's this um range of serums called Overt.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's Oh yes, oh my gosh.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's I just love I've been using the smoother, but I was also using another one I think it was about for hydration.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um I just love it.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I think it's such a great um serum and it makes my skin look good and feel good.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: So highly I love that line.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love over because I interviewed the the founder and we were talking about how she's just a she just you know did a serum line because you know, serums are just I think the main like in my opinion too, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the main product in skincare sometimes because if you have a good serum, like everything else kind of builds on top of it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: So absolutely agreed.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, and then I I think in general, um you know, one space that I'm like interested to see how uh it continues to evolve is this idea um of not just product but like mental health and products being a part of the conversation.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're seeing a lot of brands come out with that component.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been using one of them, and one of them is um Strangebird, and it's um a series of it's a cleanser that's also a mask, it's got a serum, it's got a moisturizer, and it's focused on like ritual.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's by uh an Asian founder who's like basically hearkening back to kind of this uh skincare traditions, and it's basically about like focusing and having a meditative moment in while applying your skincare.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the products smell great, first of all.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: One of them smells like a cream sickle without being like too sickeningly sweet, so just like for simplicity, and I love it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's the um the moisturizer, I believe, uh smells like that, and you know, great products, but also great like outlook and mission, which I love.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I love the meditation aspect, I really like that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think they even have like um a sound bowl situation, um, which is uh just like a full um yeah, meditative kind of experience of like having your self-care be into your skincare.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think we'll see Oh, I love that.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we'll see that even more.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Alicia Keys, her product line has that kind of um moment, taking moments for yourself and kind of making it a ritual.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that you'll see that even more.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's that um oh, I'm blanking.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's uh self-made, I believe is the product name.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was written, it was um produced or like created by for like um a mental health by a mental health lens.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: So like the idea of again um really creating this moment of self-care, and I think proceeds go to a mental health foundation.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, that's amazing.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think we're gonna see more of those kind of like tie-ins as yes, I would love to see more of that.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like honestly, to me, I was I was talking about this.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, I'm uh I don't mean to interrupt you, but like I was talking about this um earlier in what you know, some of my episodes where I was like, I would love to see skincare lines partner up with like you know these meditation apps like Headspace or you know like how cool would that be?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then you can really do what you just said about the charity for mental health, because I mean, honestly, there's not enough, you know, focus on mental health even now, even with everybody, you know, like really trying to advocate for therapy and all these things, there's not enough even now in the in America.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think that that we really need to like as a community, especially in the beauty world, like come together and focus a little bit on that too, because it's especially with COVID, you know.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that we're you know, experiencing the pandemic has really made us experience kind of this collective trauma.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure that we'll see kind of you know, continuation of what that how that actually impacted our health, um, consciously or subconsciously.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that in general, we all know that you know, your health and your mental health plays such an important role in um in your skin and in like how you present um in terms of uh your skin, you know, tells a story as like as far as as far as like your stress levels and you know, are you sleeping enough?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: Are you balanced?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are you having you know all of these different things in alignment?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that to your point of partnering with um some sort of meditation app or something like that, that just makes perfect sense to me because it's yeah, it's all intertwined, it's all holistic, you know?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and I love that you said that because you know, everyone in I think, especially in the skincare realm, we want to focus on well, dermatology, dermatology, and that's very important.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get me wrong, science is absolutely important.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the biggest nerd when it comes to science.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I get it, but I think that ignoring um aspects such as you know psychology and what it does for people in terms of the self-care aspect, we can't ignore those, right?
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: So if you were to look at it from just a medical point of view, you can still argue that you know a self-care routine can be something that is good for your psychology, and that in that way it's benefiting you.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Just like decreasing stress, like you said, and that's in itself is gonna show results and you're gonna see it in your skin.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we can't approach it with this just strict, oh my God, are you clinical grade skincare or not?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm saying?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like right.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think we even well and good, we had a recent talk with um our beauty director there, actually had a talk with two dermatologists, and one of the points was like, um, you know, do uh do jade rollers or facial rollers actually like do anything, right?
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And from a dermatology standpoint, I think the dermatologist who is speaking was like, well, yeah, um, not you know, not significantly, but if that's part of your ritual, if it makes you feel good, and if it's your ritual, then you can't you can't negate things completely.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Just because it doesn't have, you know, maybe a dermat dermatological point of like uh benefit or like focus, yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean that it's not beneficial, you know.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: I 100% agree with you.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: I really, really do.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, I'm not, you know, I don't get me wrong, I have a massive respect for you know dermatologists.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I adore their work, especially these days.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, on Instagram, you see a lot of amazing informative posts, and you know, that's wonderful.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I can honestly say from a research perspective, you cannot say that, well, I don't have any articles on this, so this just doesn't work.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know enough about jade rollers right now, you know, and I've I've come to that understanding.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I understand that as a doctor, you're saying, okay, this has no clinical significance.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but you don't know you did you publish a paper yet on it?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, there's so much that we don't know, and especially um, you know, I'm thinking of working in a wellness website, looking at wellness, you know, 10, 15 years ago is a very different experience than now.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: And things that we once considered, you know, woo-woo wellness or you know, kind of like out there are things that people do now as part of like our living, you know, and um has obviously had great uh personal and beneficial like benefits to um for people to to have better lives.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, yeah, anything that you know gives you a feeling of confidence and makes you feel better is just as important as, you know, anything else.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I love that you thank you so much for like, you know, having this conversation with me because this is the first time I've talked to anybody, you know, really candidly about this, where it's like, yeah, you know, we really do need to focus on that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that, you know, this is where I am so infatuated with the editorial world because you guys are at the at the you know forefront of introducing these amazing new concepts and perspectives, right?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's that's something that I really admire about, you know, your career path and your profession is that this this candid um you know, just conversation that you can start.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I really, really want to applaud your work because that's very important.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's I think it, you know, everything is um layered and impacts everything else, whether it's, you know, wellness, food, sleep, fitness, all of these things affect your health, your personal health, you how you, you know, how your skin reacts, how everything, how you feel about yourself.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: So everything's intertwined.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, beauty is one lens to look at a broader facet of things for sure.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Sam, this has been amazing.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I I feel like I always say this, but I just keep meeting amazing people.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like I want to invite you back on.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would be happy to do so.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was so fun to chat with you, and um you know, there's so much more that can be explored as far as beauty, and I'm excited to hear the rest of your guests.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you so much, and everybody out there, please, please, please go check out um Samantha's Instagram handle.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Samantha, can you shout it out for everybody?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, it's Samantha it's my full name, so it's Samantha J O Jo L E A L L Samantha Joe Leao.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: And please go check out Samantha's page, check us out if you haven't.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: If you're just hearing this on the on the bus or something, someone's being obnoxious, let me know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, but please subscribe, leave me some comments.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: If you have any questions for Sam, just leave them and I will definitely pass them along to her.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much, Sam.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: This was awesome.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: I really, I really loved this.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 44:22
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• 44:27
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• 44:30
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• 44:44
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• 45:01
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• 45:05
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• 45:15
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• 45:22
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• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.