Latest / REBUILT: The Courage to Begin Again with Lorena Armitage / She Ignored Her Inner Voice—and Went to Federal Prison | Rashmi Airan
Transcript
- Lorena: Rashmi Iran had built the kind of life that looked almost impossible to lose. She is a first-generation American, a Columbia-educated lawyer, a former Wall Street investment banker, a mother, and was the owner of a very successful law practice in Miami. But a series of decisions and the blind spots behind them led to a conviction for bank fraud and Time in federal prison. What makes Rashmi's story remarkable isn't that she pretends that those decisions didn't actually happen. It is that she learned to take responsibility for those decisions without allowing them to define the rest of her life. Today she helps leaders understand ethical decision making, shame, resilience, and what it takes to rise after everything you believed about yourself has fallen. Rashmi, thank you so much for joining me. I really just wanted to have this conversation because your story it's a true inspirational story and your story really asks how do we begin again when we also have to take responsibility for what brought us down and how do we build from there? Rashmi: Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm excited to have a conversation. I love doing these talks and podcasts because it just allows me to dig deeper usually. And there's always like one question that a podcast host will ask me and I'm like, I've never heard that one before. So yeah, let's go. Lorena: Well w we'll see. We'll see where we get to. before we talk about who you are today and all the great things that you're doing, why don't you take us back to who you were before life asked you to rebuild and you know, what did your life look like then and what happened? What brought you to that point where you just had to restart and rebuild again? Rashmi: Yeah, well it's it's it's a shocking story to most people. I grew up in Miami, Florida. I am the daughter of im Indian immigrants who essentially sacrificed everything in India to come over to America for a better life for themselves, for the kids that they would one day have. My parents came with eight dollars in their pocket and they came with like a very simple belief that with hard work and education they could make it and make a better life, right? For for us. as daughters that they eventually had. So I'm born and I'm born into this legacy of like working hard and justice and doing the right thing. And I was raised with incredible values. my my parents are very like they came for their master's and PhD and then they got master's degrees and law degrees and masters and law degrees and and you know, so I come from this like line of people that are very of a focus on education. So when I was a kid, I was so I think just Realize that I had to achieve and perform, and I thought that I had to do all these things. To justify the sacrifice that my parents had made, right? So I like in my head, I I was like, I have to get the grades and get the awards and and make a lot of money. And that's what is achievement, and that's what success looks like. And and to be clear, I don't think I'm the only one that felt this way. I truly believe that most high achievers, certainly most first generation immigrant immigrant children here have all felt this in some way. And I don't believe that it's like anybody sat us down and told us this, right? We all Just self-consumed it. It became this like self-imposed expectation obligation upon ourselves. So it didn't even feel like an obligation. It felt like a privilege to be able to work so hard and study so hard and make our parents proud of us. And so I, by all accounts, was doing all of those things. So I grew up here in South Florida like you. I went to a local high school, did very well, went on to UNC Chapel Hill. And you know, was like top of my class, and I w I did everything. Like I I was involved in in in a sorority in student body government. I ran for student body president. I was involved in like supporting our sports and athletic teams. And so from there I went to Wall Street. I worked in investment banking at a top investment bank. And then I went to law school in New York at Columbia Law. And so, as you can tell, the resume was getting padded. I was doing all the things that you would consider achievement and success. And along the way, the faster I did. things the more I kept getting rewarded. And so all of my self-worth and my self-value and my self-love slowly became rooted in these measurements, right? Like the if I do things faster, I will get rewarded. If I get rewarded, that is my self-worth. And so even like my friends, and I now have obviously evolved from that, but I used to think that people were my friends or would come to my parties because I was this superstar, you know, and when I graduated from law school, I worked at a law firm in California. I came back to Miami and I worked, for a firm, then I worked for the government. Ultimately I started my own real estate law practice. So I was a solopreneur, I marry a firefighter, I have two young children pretty quickly, and by 2007, I It it can only be described as physically frantic. Like I was constantly on the go, constantly hustling, you know, every networking dinner, every organizational event, every possible thing I could do to get a client. so I would even like I'd be on the elliptical at the gym, handing out my card to somebody who needed a title attorney to close. Like, my God, I'm buying a house. Awesome, I can do your closing. Right? Like that was my immediate reaction. And so it was in this context in 2007. That I got a chance to meet a real estate developer. And I don't know how many of your audience members remember what was happening in 2007 in real estate, but it was right before the crash. Things in South Florida were crazy. And I'm a real estate Lorena: Crazy. Rashmi: attorney. Yeah. And I I have already been representing buyers, like friends and people that are buying properties and condos as investments to, you know, like, you know, the rich dad-poor dad philosophy. Like the more property you buy, the more money eventually you have. Lorena: Mm-hmm. Rashmi: So I'm already representing all these people. And when I get the chance to meet this real estate developer, Or what's going on in my head is like, I have to land this client. Like, this is a big fish client. And that Lorena: Right. Rashmi: is all I'm focused on. So I'm I remember going into his office in my beach and thinking to myself, all I could think about was I have to do anything I can to get this client. And so when he began to describe to me that he was giving buyers incentives to buy his condo units through what he was calling a rental guarantee, I was like, huh. That's creative. But since I had already done all these other closings for buyers with other big developers who were also doing creative transactions, I I didn't have evidence for this, but I convinced myself that some other law firm representing some big developer has already done the research and checked whether or not this is okay. And I I just had such big blind spots on. I just didn't want to pay attention to the feeling in my gut, which was something did not feel right. And I I now now I talk about how our inner voice and whether you call it God, our intuition, our moral compass, energy. We all know that feeling. And Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: most of us get really good at ignoring what our inner voice is telling us. But the reality is is when our inner voice is screaming or it feels like a sucker punch, it's because something doesn't is not right. And you need to at least ask for help, ask for a second opinion, ask questions, all of which I didn't do. And you have to understand, Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: I am surrounded by attorneys, okay? My parents, my friends, my mentors, and I could have gone to any number of 15 people and asked for help or a second opinion. And I now know that I didn't because I did not want to lose the client. I was so hungry and I thought, like this to me was like the one big client. Like if I can get this one big client, I can get home to dinner f with my kids. And by this time I'm already having marital problems. So I I I like was like, I just need this one guy to solve all my other problems at home. And and so none of these like the concerns and the challenges that my gut was telling me and the questions that I should have asked even came to fruition because it didn't even occur to me. It was it it was just I was so honed in on getting the client. So I within two weeks started working with him and I did 15 months of work with this client. And then I stopped working with him. All all of the project properties sold. Like they there were no more projects, properties. And I start I merged my practice with my dad's. We grew I grew our practice by 1200%. it was a foreclosure litigation practice, real estate litigation practice. And four years later, the FBI knocked on my door. Lorena: No. Rashmi: And then I didn't know actually that you could say to them, hey, can I call you back when I have an attorney? And the FBI operates off this fear and intimidation because they realize that we're all scared of them. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: understandably so. And So I let them into my office, I talked to them for four hours, I did not have an attorney with me, and they grilled me, like showed me documents and emails and pictures, and and I'm like answering these questions, yes, no, yes, no, as if I could remember what had happened four years ago, which of course Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: not that memory. And then they leave and two more years go by, and then I get a grand jury subpoena for documents. So I'm still thinking I haven't done anything wrong. And so I give them all my files. They wanted all my files with this one client. So I give them all my files. And within three months, my attorney called me in and he said, You're a target. Four words. Which in that moment, I didn't even know what it meant. Because like I'm not a criminal lawyer. I'm a I I say I'm a dirt lawyer. I was a real estate lawyer. Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: And then when he explained it to me, I I collapsed and I started shaking uncontrollably. Because this was my whole life. And this was everything I thought I wanted from my life. Like, and it was gonna completely break everything down. And all I could think about, it's not that I was even thinking about prison at that time. What I was thinking Lorena: Right. Rashmi: about was I'm disgracing my parents. Everything they came from India for. This is not that. How will I ever come back from this? Who will love me now? And You know, the process from there until where I am today is a long one, but the short story is I got indicted for one count of conspiracy to commit bank fraud and twenty-four counts of bank fraud. And then my attorney, after many months of us going through discovery, helped me recognize that I had done something by not doing something. Like by not walking away from the client. And not asking the questions, I had allowed him to continue to do these things. And I knew enough, meaning I knew there were these buyer incentives. When I went through discovery, what I learned was that this client, this developer, was doing a bunch of things outside of my file that were wrong, that I didn't know about until I seven years later when I went through discovery. But what my attorney helped me understand was none of that mattered. What mattered Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: was that I was an attorney who had a fiduciary duty to ask the questions I didn't, to stop or walk away, and that I'm held to a higher standard, as leaders were held to a higher standard, and that I should have known. I should have walked away. I should have asked the right questions. I should have listened to my gut. So ultimately I pled guilty and I was months later sentenced to a year and a day in prison. So that was in twenty I got sentenced in twenty fifteen. I had sixty days of surrender, so I had a lot of meaningful conversations with my kids who were nine and ten at the time. And ultimately I ended up serving six months in prison. I got out early because while I was in prison, I was asked to testify in another case in another t municipality. So I I testified in that other case and then the judge gave me an early release. So that's kind of what happened. I mean, since that I've been home now over a decade. And since I've been home, I've I've really researched human behavior and the psychology of decision making. And I needed to understand for myself what went wrong. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: How did this like perfect little Indian girl allow herself to go so off path and make such bad decisions? Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: And so all of that has culminated into the work that I do now. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: And I'm really honored to to work, you know, I work with four Fortune 100, Fortune 500 companies globally. And I I guess I share this obvious cautionary tale. But what I tell people from Sage is like if you're here just to hear some story about a a a woman that did a thing, then you're wasting your time because you can do that anywhere else. You can read my book. But what I'm here to share with you is an actual process and something that you can apply in your life every single day, 36,000 times a day, because we make 36,000 decisions a day, so that none of you end up where I did, because the decisions that we make affect us in our home lives, in Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: our work lives, in our lives, in our civic lives. And in today's world of uncertainty and speed and pressure, all of us can succumb to making a bad decision. And if you think you could never be me, then that's the most dangerous assumption you can make. So I Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: that's a lot of the work I do now. Lorena: Thank you for being so Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: open and walking us through. I'm I can't wait to get into the nooks and crannies of your story. But before that I have to say that I relate very much in the self-imposed pressure. I was born in South America in the eighties in Colombia. We moved yes. Rashmi: gosh. Like in the midst of the whole cocaine cowboy stuff. Lorena: Well, in in that, my we moved to America. therefore Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: I've reside here for my whole life, but I moved to the US when I was just nine years old. and my parents left everything and and I understand the self-pressure that we put on ourselves to Rashmi: Right. Lorena: repay the debt of you did everything for me. Well, now I guess you talk a lot about ethical blind spots. and where that comes from. And obviously you describe this whole thing as as wanting to to provide for your family, is that what you mean by that, by I didn't quite realise and I didn't I didn't ask the question. I didn't ask Rashmi: Yeah, well so I think so there's a lot of science that goes behind this, okay? So what my science has uncovered is that there we have all these biases. And in the moment that we're about to do something, right, because of the circumstances and the pressures and the influences that we're in, there there's a story that we can start to tell ourselves. And so That story, in my case, it was like, I have to land this client, otherwise I can't survive. Like I won't be able to pay for my life. And if you s if you recognize this is a binary, right? Like just the the format of that line is a binary. There's very rarely a situation where in reality we're stuck with a binary. It's not that I had to land the client or I wouldn't survive. Clearly there was a whole spectrum of options in between, right? I could have found other clients to work with. I could have continued to hustle. There were so many other things that I could have that could have happened. But in the moment that you're in, which is pressure and speed and noise and uncertainty and struggling and I'm under marital stress, right? So in that moment, that what's called outcome bias, like you convince yourself that I have to land the client, otherwise I can't survive. You create Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: this bias, like I have to achieve this outcome, which then means I'm only gonna take in all the information that supports the outcome I want to achieve, which is self-serving bias. Right? Lorena: Right. Rashmi: And so when you have all these biases that you're trapped in, you don't even realize that you have basically created blind spots in your entire world. Because now you're not looking at the whole spectrum of options or the spectrum of facts that are out there. You're only taking in the facts that that feed the outcome that you want. Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: Right? Like I should have taken in the fact, why is this big developer leaving this big law firm to come work with me? That should have been a big red flag. I should have said, Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: well, they have more capacity, more experience, more attorneys, more people, more wisdom. Why bigger offices, you know, more experience. Why would they leave them to come work with me? I've never worked with a a developer before. I'm a solo attorney. I have one tiny little office with a tiny little staff. Why would they leave the law firm? Right? That should have been a question I asked. Lorena: Mm, mm. Rashmi: That's a big blind spot. But I didn't ask it, and I know now I didn't ask it because I in that moment I just felt flattered and arrogant. I just Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: was like, there's something special about me. Of course I'm awesome. I'm awesome and badass. Lorena: It's it's my time. Rashmi: And so one of the things I talk about how is in business, really what I was feeling in that moment was fear, right? the undercurrent was fear that I need to land this client, otherwise, I'm not going to survive. That's a fear. But what where I saw it was lucky. I am lucky that this client wants to hire me. And in business, when you're feeling lucky, It's a dangerous feeling. I'm lucky to be in this room, so I'm not gonna say anything. I'm lucky to be sitting at the table, so I won't speak up when something feels wrong. Right? And so that feeling of being lucky ended up c causing all sorts of blind spots for me. And that led me to basically lay in bed with somebody I should never have in business. Lorena: Mm. It it's so it's so funny how everything in life i I tr I believe, it's either fear or love. You either do it because you're scared or you either do it because you are fully leaning into it with an open heart. And if it's not one or the Rashmi: Interesting. Yeah. Lorena: other, there's no gray matter basically in that. How was that moment telling your parents? The ones that gave everything up? The ones I mean, as an immigrant child, I can't Rashmi: You know, I was so scared about that moment. I happened to be incredibly blessed. And my parents have had their own challenges financially and also with family. And I don't know why I thought it would be any different, but my parents have unconditionally loved me throughout all of this, have supported me financially, they did f they did and they continue to for many years. Like and it's hard when I'm fifty five and But it's also part of my culture, right? Like, well, it's part of the culture that of course family's gonna support each other, but but what I didn't expect was that my parents would so unconditionally stand by me. and Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: I I actually think that this journey that I have gone through has helped my parents and taught them a lot about Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: business, about themselves, about being skeptical, about trusting others, about making better decisions, right? And so in some ways I've definitely been a guide for my parents on certain things. But they I so I I now live in a multi generational home. So Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: the home I live in is with my parents and it's it's such a gift. and yes, it was a financial decision to move here 'cause I used to live across the street in Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: my own house. And you know, I got divorced along the way and then I was a single Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: mom raising two children with my parents across the street and it just didn't make financial sense anymore. I mean, I I as you can imagine, I lost everything. Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: all my assets, all my IRA accounts, all of my money. And so having gone through this and then having to come back from it and then figure out how to like pick up the pieces and start again was really hard. And so and the speaking stuff that I do now, the first three years while I was on probation, the judge in my case wouldn't let me make money either doing it. So I I did about three hundred speeches for free, meaning at no fee. And it started getting my name out there but I wasn't able to make money. So I made money doing other things. I was tutoring, Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: kids that were trying to go to college or take the SAT. I was I was just doing a bunch of other things. Modeling. Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: I was doing all sorts of other things. Lorena: Yeah. my gosh. I can't imagine. But it is it is true that the support that we have in our families are is what carries us through. Hopefully you have that support. Not everyone does, but hopefully, hopefully you you do. But it's it's a scary thing, even to to acknowledge. So take me back to that moment when you realize that my God, my entire life is about to collapse. I mean, I can I could see a lot of people having that thought of if I make this decision or if I do this thing, my life is gonna collapse. You know, if I Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: whatever situation I'm in, if I leave it, even though it's the right thing for me, my life is gonna collapse. And how am I gonna how am I gonna begin again? How was that for you? Rashmi: Well, for me, it was the moment that I made the decision to plead guilty. And that was a meeting in my attorney's office with my parents. And until that point in time, I absolutely was like fighting, right? Like I was in fight mode. I had my fighting Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: hat on. I was like, I am going to trial. I'm gonna prove my innocence. And over months before that meeting, we had had several sessions. go over the different evidence that we had discovered. And that was over time, over months, I discovered like, my God, there's all these things that were happening that I didn't know about. And so ultimately it was August 2014. And I remember my attorney and his partner called me into his office and they basically had a whole presentation that they had done like, you know, Rush May if you go to trial. The government has to prove their case, and this is the evidence they're gonna use to prove their case. And then we're gonna get up and we're gonna give our defense and here's the evidence we're gonna use. And then the government's gonna stand back up and here's the evidence they're gonna use. And I just remember realizing, like, I am I am effed, right? Like I there's no way I can get out of this. And he looked Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: at me and he said. Rashmi I've known you 20 years. Like, so you have to understand, my attorney is a friend. He literally lives a mile from my house. we used to teach at law school together. Our kids are friends. His wife went to college with me. So I've like we've known each other for for decades. And he said, Rashmi I've known you 20 years. I know you didn't walk into this relationship with this client planning a crime. I know you. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: But the thing is, is that you knew enough. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: And if you go to trial, you're gonna lose. And Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: you're looking at 20 years in prison. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: And at the time my kids were were eight and nine, and he's like, Well, you know, if you you're gonna miss all of it. You're gonna miss their entire childhood. You're gonna miss high school graduation, college, college graduation. You're gonna miss all of it. And there's no appeal. Like very rarely will you have a chance to appeal. You can't even count on that. And he was like, Lorena: Well, Rashmi: here's the thing though, you did know, right? You did know there was this rental guarantee. You did know, and you just didn't say anything. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: And so when I made the decision to plead guilty, which is the moment that I took off the fighting hat and I claimed ownership, that was the moment that I knew my life would be changed forever and that I Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: would be a felon for the rest of my life. And E as hard as it was, it was also like such a lift of a burden on me. Because I had Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: been like I had this heavy load of fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting. Lorena: Hmm. Rashmi: And the uncertainty of like I don't know what's gonna happen. So in this moment when I it was like a bizarre spiritual experience where I Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: decided to plea. the burden of closure, like it there was a little bit of closure, knowing that, okay, yes, I'm gonna be a felon. I don't know I don't know what the sentence will be, but I'm gonna accept that I did this and then just trust that there's a bigger plan for me. Right. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: And so yeah, that was essentially what my life changed. Lorena: I think uncertainty plays such a big role in our lives, of you know, what we decide or don't decide to do because we we we we're so afraid because we don't know, but like you said, you just remove like a a weight off of your shoulders because it's like, okay, well, now I know. Now now there's a path, and I'm just gonna walk that path. Rashmi: Yeah. Yeah, totally, totally. Lorena: So The all the status markers were removed, the the lawyer, the Wall Street, the you know, all of these big accolades and you knew you were gonna be a felon, but who at that moment, who were you? Rashmi: That's a hard question. In the moment of making the decision. Lorena: Yeah, when you knew, I have to rebuild my life now. and the steps are I'm gonna turn myself in and I will go to prison. And you know you you will be marked as a as a felon, but but be behind all of that there's a woman. Rashmi: So I will say that it there's no one answer to this, right? There's like a multi-pronged support that I had and things that I did. So one is I prayed a lot. I really leaned on prayer and my faith and I You know, initially it started with me being really angry and you know, I would sing praise songs, but I'd shout and scream and like I didn't understand. and then ultimately it led to this like truth and peace of like, God, I don't know why this is happening, but I'm gonna have faith and trust that it's happening for my good. And so Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: just like that peace that I got once I decided to plea. the second aspect is I leaned on the people I call my constellation of stars. So I was very outward about what happened and I ended up calling about 200 people in my life and like and when and like I live in Miami so I know like managing partners of law firms and politicians and executive directors of nonprofits because I sat on their boards and and then my kids' friends parents and my friends and my childhood friends and my law school friends and like I literally called two hundred people and told them. And then ask them to write a letter to the judge to support me. And then those all those people showed up at my sentencing hearing. And so Lorena: wow. Rashmi: that process of calling people and taking accountability. really helps me understand this other lesson that I learned, which is I had spent my whole life believing that people loved me for my achievements, but actually people loved me for who I am as a human. And so people are very forgiving of our humanity when we give them a chance. And Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: I had never understood that. And the power of knowing that I am loved for who I am, not for what I do and achieve, was such a big awakening for me. And so I had this incredible army of people supporting me and loving me unconditionally. And so for men, I mean there were many days where I had to borrow their belief in me because I was so down and negative and bitter and crying, right? I'm not saying that this is like Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: a perfect story. There have been lots of tears and lots of agony Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: and anxiety and fear and anger and screaming and you know like I've gone through all Lorena: Hmm. Rashmi: of it because you do have to sometimes like I truly believe when we're going through a struggle, we have to feel that pain in our bones to be able to reframe Lorena: Hmm. Rashmi: it eventually. And come out of it. But you can't like Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: you have to feel the discomfort. I ha I know because I have done it. I have felt it. Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: I've gone through it with my divorce. I've gone through it in because of prison. My sister passed away from mental health seven years ago. So I've gone through it with her. Then the love of my life passed away six years ago. So then I've gone through it with him. I have gone through so many moments of grief and tragedy and pain. And every single time when I think I'm never gonna be able to come back from this, I lean into the pain and I Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: allow myself to grieve or cry or Really Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: feel it. And then eventually you come out of it. And eventually it's it's not that it ever goes away, but like the shame of what I've done has will never go away. But I don't Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: let it define who I am today. Just like Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: when we lose a loved one, that love and that their legacy and their presence in your life never goes away. But that love ends up feeding everything you else you do, right? You treasure Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: the love. Like you can treasure the fact that you love somebody so much to grieve for them that Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: you can move forward with your life. So like it it's I think all of this is a process. So anyway, so first was prayer, second was the people that I surrounded myself. Third, I did work out And for me, I think movement is medicine. And so I I was always doing something. So whether it was yoga, Pilates, bar, strength, walking, running, like I was always doing something to to sweat, to relieve the anxiety, you know, that so I did a lot of that. I I I do a lot of meditation and like aff po positive affirmations and writing. So I did a lot Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: of that. So it's just like a combination of a lot of a lot of those things. Lorena: I think what I'm hearing is you just went really inward Rashmi: Inward, yeah. Lorena: as opposed to what had always been your life which was outward, you know, Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: the the recognition, the success, the the achievements that you needed to to bring into your life. It all just became an inward process. And Rashmi: Yeah. Yeah. Lorena: when you say all of that, was that what helped you survive the the time in prison was moving yeah, Rashmi: Totally. Yeah, yeah. Lorena: meditation. Rashmi: It was definitely like I read, I prayed, I was I was I read two books a week. I also read the Bible in the Gita. I worked out every single day. I made friends. I kept to myself. I wrote letters. I called my kids every morning, every night. I emailed them every morning. I had video calls every week with them. So yeah, it was definitely like it was a spiritual process for me. It was like I it Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: was like I got sent to an ashram. I was forced to go to an ashram and I Lorena: Well that's that's a really nice way to put it, actually. Rashmi: a government imposed timeout, essentially. Now I I Lorena: Yeah, yeah. Rashmi: will I mean I I always acknowledge for people that I'm really lucky 'cause I was only gone and sentenced to a year. And so I always Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: wanna acknowledge all of all that, you know. a lot of other people are there for much longer. So I realize I was only there for a year, you know. Lorena: Yeah. But a year like yes. But I think a lot of people would be really scared to be gone for a year. I mean, a year is also a long time. Rashmi: It's listen, one day is too long to be away from children, from your children. Like at the beginning of this, when I got sentenced, I remember thinking, I can get through anything. I'm strong and I'm a fighter, I'm a survivor, but what's gonna happen to my kids? Like that was Lorena: Hmm. Rashmi: the prevailing fear that I had, right? Like, what Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: is gonna happen to my kids? And so you know, and interestingly my kids, because I was truthful with them, they came and visited me, they spoke to me every night. they are so much stronger having gone through something like this with me. Both of them in different ways. I think while I was there it was very hard on both of them and there's a lot of costs that were associated by by the decisions I made. But now a decade later they're much stronger and you know, they've gone through a lot in their young little lives, but they're Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: they're really strong and powerful and resilient. Lorena: As a mother, I have to say I'm very happy to hear that they are strong and powerful and resilient. because it's hard it's hard to go through out all of that. And I I couldn't imagine being away from my little girl, who's a year and a half, she's tiny. So that must have also been quite deep and difficult as as a mom Rashmi: I mean I think out of everything that was the hardest part was being taken away from my kids. I can lose my money, I can lose my freedom, but being taken away from my children was the hardest part. Lorena: Yeah, I I can I could imagine. So was there in that messy middle is what I call it, the messy, the sludge moments, was there something that you felt that you had to surrender before you could begin again? Rashmi: well, a lot of things. I had to surrender my ego. You have to like let go of ego. I had to let go of control. I had to let go of my fears. And I think the last thing I let go of was judgment. Like I I I had been passing a lot of judgment on myself, but I also through this process realized that I had spent a lot of time passing judgment on others, thinking I was better than others. And going to prison there's nothing like going to prison that equalizes you and realizes we are all the same. Like Every single person I was in prison with with doesn't matter where they came from, what they were there for, what they look like, we're all the same. And so Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: those I basically let like I had to surrender and let go of those four things. And I do believe that letting go has so much power in it when you Lorena: Mm-hmm. Rashmi: allow yourself, right? The ego is such a trap. and it's a daily struggle. I I struggle with it every single day. I think we all do. And so if Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: we can be mindful and aware that ego tries To chop us every day, and then we try to break ourselves of that, you know. Like, of course I post on social media, I have to for my business, and you know, I'm proud of my kids for various things. And so, yes, of course I do all that. But I think it's more of the perspective of ego and entitlement and like Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: it it's you know, there's I think there's like a a fine line of understanding where ego becomes a power drain and how do we then focus on not letting that happen. Lorena: Yeah. So what was kind of the first practical step that you took after prison? Or maybe even in prison? Rashmi: Well, I've talked about it a little bit, but for for me it was definitely the acceptance and forgiveness part. So, like, I because I had always been so hard on myself, the very first thing I had to do was to forgive myself. which is what led to all this research I've now done. But first, I had to forgive the fact that I did do this thing. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: Right? And so the forgiveness of self then allows you. to move forward and in my case I forgave myself and then I forgave my client who was never even indicted and I was so upset about it for a very long time. Lorena: Wow. Rashmi: Yeah. And so ultimately I forgave him and just let it go. And I moved on. And spiritually, I needed to do that for myself. Because nothing that happens in this life happens, I don't think happens by accident. I think it's Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: all like the way it's supposed to go. And so I I sort of came to the understanding that If he didn't get indicted, it was because he was not supposed to get indicted in this lifetime. He has other lessons to learn in this lifetime, and it's not up to me. So Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: I was already indicted. I was already dealing with it. Nothing that happened to him was going to change what had already happened to me. So I just focused on myself. And I was like, what do I need to do to survive, to get my kids through this, to make it out of it, Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: out of this situation? I'm not going to focus on anybody else. So Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: forgiving him allowed me to do that because otherwise I was so focused. on that and it was like negatively draining me. I was getting an ulcer. It was very unhealthy. and so those were like the very practical steps I did. Lorena: Yeah. And when you came out of prison, how did you rebuild when your whole identity as an attorney, yeah, your whole identity had just Rashmi: Well, I'm not an attorney anymore. Yeah, I mean I lost my license, so I can't practice law anymore. I think the understanding that my identity was never what I do was a big part of this. So recognizing that my identity is who am I. Like as a human, what do I have to give to this world? What is my purpose in this life? Which is actually what drives the work I do now. Because what I realize is who I am is not an attorney or a law professor or an investment banker. Who I am is somebody who touches and inspires people every day. And if the vehicle for that is my book and keynote speaking and podcasting, then that's what I want to spend my time doing. Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: And so that was how I rebuilt my identity, was really sort of and I think all of the like prayer and reading that I did while I was in prison helped a lot because Lorena: uh-huh. Rashmi: then when I came out, I I and you know, of course letting go of judgment, letting go of judgment on myself, all those things had a lot to do with how I now show up in the world for others. Lorena: Yeah. was there anyone that just saw past what had happened to you? Rashmi: my God. so many people. I have s incredible clients that gave me a chance and believed in me, and saw the power of the message and the story and the thought leadership. So there's there's not one person that I can point to. I could give you a list of people that have helped me, Lorena: Yeah, yeah. Rashmi: but like I mean I would say if I had to point to like people, I would probably point to my parents first because without their unconditional love and support, nothing would have been possible. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: and that includes my sister as well and you know, my best friends. Like I think the the my immediate circle around me has allowed me to have the faith and belief in myself to keep going. And so I think that if anything that deserve the most credit. Lorena: Yeah, yeah. I mean family is absolutely everything. and they help you they ground you and root you. I and now you know, you have fantastic clients. You work with really big, companies and clients and you speak all over all over the place, telling your story. Was there maybe a a moment when you felt like people only saw that woman? The woman that went Rashmi: Which one? Lorena: to prison? Rashmi: There have been. I think in this world, there are a lot of trolls and there's a lot of people that have nothing else better to do than be negative and condescending and pass judgment on us because they haven't they haven't learned the lesson yet. They haven't learned to let go of their own judgment, right? So there had been times, I remember there was this one time I was in Atlanta and I was giving a speech, it was like a thousand people in the room. And so I finished my speech, and there was a point at which I I opened it up to QA. And then that there was this guy at the very back of the room who stands up and he said, Why should I even listen to you? You're a federal convict. Lorena: No. Rashmi: I have no reason to listen to you. And I like took it in for a second, and then I said, Thank you for your comment. We can agree to disagree. And perhaps you're just not ready to hear my message yet. And and I just let it go and I moved on to the next question because In those moments, and there's been plenty of other ex not plenty, but you there's been moments like that. There's gonna be people, whether it's on YouTube as a comment or on LinkedIn, where there's somebody wants to pass judgment on me and define me by my bad decision, define me Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: by my past. And I think all we can do is look forward and learn from our bad decisions. And here's the thing: none of us are immune to making bad decisions. They just show up differently Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: for all of us. And if we can recognize that, then We shouldn't pass judgment on others and what they did. It might look completely different than what your experience is. So my experience is I made bad decisions, it was a bank fraud case, I ended up in federal prison. Somebody else's bad decision is they committed adultery and they ended up divorced and, you know, they hurt their spouse and kids. Like there's so many levels of bad decision making that and Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: and it it's not like we're meant to compare it. We just all have to recognize that we're all flawed. We are Lorena: Hm. Rashmi: The whole existence of our human being humanity is we are flawed. We are meant to learn lessons in this lifetime. None of us are perfect because if we were perfect there'd be no reason to exist. It's like Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi: every single day we're supposed to learn some lesson in this life. That's what I believe. Lorena: Yeah. I agree with that. And and I'm glad that you're telling your story. I wonder how how do you hold your past now as part of your story without allowing it to become your entire identity. And I ask because, you know, there may be people that are listening to us that just, might be in the thick of something and And they're thinking, Well, this is who I'm gonna be for the rest of my life. Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: How do you get to know, yes, that was my story, but it but it's not what defines me. Rashmi: a lot of self reflection, a lot of prayer, a lot of forgiveness, you know, just like constantly I don't know if there's a magic bullet, you know, I don't know if there's a magic solution. We all are gonna go through struggle. I just firmly believe that something is always gonna lead us down the road of pain and struggle. And when we're in that moment, what we can do is lean on others, borrow their Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: belief in us, pray, write, reach out to a therapist. There's so many actions that we can do. that that can allow us to f eventually come out of that feeling. That's I mean, I I don't know how else like I that's what I did at least. Lorena: Yeah, well and and it got you where you are today. So what do you think? Like someone who is like in the middle of going through something and they feel that kind of internal discomfort telling them that something isn't right. What what should someone do? Rashmi: If they're feeling that something isn't right and it's like a legal type of case, they should reach out to an attorney, reach out to a mentor, a boss, something, and say something. Because if you don't say something, you go down a bad road. If it's Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: something else unrelated, I think the best thing we can do first is to find somebody to talk to about it and seek Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: a second opinion and ask for help. And a lot of us internalize things and don't want to say anything and And that becomes the problem, for sure. Lorena: Hmm. Hmm. I hear you saying more and more, talk to others, lean on others, you know, talk to people, just don't bottle it all in. we may not all have the answers to everything. And for someone that is kind of living in the aftermath of a decision that they might deeply have regretted or are regretting. as as having been through something quite profound yourself, what would you say to them? Rashmi: That we are all, gonna have these moments where we could go we wish we could go back and change our decisions. We wish we could go back and change our actions. And when you're having this like regret moment, you can go back, find, find the ability to forgive yourself. And then instead of looking in the rear of your mirror, just look in the in the dashboard, right? In the front mirror and just keep going. Like you gotta take one step in front of the other, one foot in front of the other, and just keep trusting the next time you're gonna make a better decision. And all we can do is look backwards and say, okay, I made this bad decision or I regret doing that. I wish I could do something different. Now that I know I have to own it. learn from it, grow from it, and then never do it again or help others never do it again. That's my whole life. Lorena: Mm. Rashmi: my whole life is based on helping others now. Lorena: Yeah. Rashmi, before we kind of close the conversation around your story, I end every rebuild conversation with the same question. What was the smallest act of courage that changed everything for you and helped you rebuild? Rashmi: I gosh, I I don't know if there's one small act of courage, but for me it was a small but momentous and the moment I chose to plead guilty and decided and owned it, that little moment changed the rest of my life. And I credit my attorney for making me realize that that was the right decision. cause but for him, I would have fought it and gone to trial and probably still be sitting in jail, in prison. So to me, that one decision and that one moment, which took so much courage, right? 'Cause it like having made the decision changed my life, but not having made that decision could have changed my life also, but in a much different way. So Lorena: Hmm. Hmm. Being courageous and doing doing the right thing, taking accountability for your actions. Rashmi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lorena: Rashmi, before we let you go, tell us what you're building now, where people can find you. Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: Tell us about you. Rashmi: Well, I am a f like you said, a keynote speaker. I spend my time keynoting at corporate retreats, annual conferences, sales kickoff meetings, leadership trainings. ERG retreats, women's conferences. So my website's pretty robust. People can find me on my website, which is my name, rushmearin.com. On LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, TikTok, it's also my name. So I'm easy to find. I have a newsletter every week that goes out. So if you're interested, please subscribe. it's also on LinkedIn and otherwise you can just go to my website and read it every week. Lorena: Ha ha Rashmi: And yeah, if you're interested in hiring me, working with me, let me know. Reach out. My email is rushme at rushmearin.com. Lorena: Rashmi, thank you for telling the truth about the whole thing, just being so Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: honest, and not only just to what happened to you, but the decisions that you had to take and the Rashmi: Thank you. Lorena: responsibility that you took for for those very difficult times. Your story is just Rashmi: Thank you so much. Lorena: such a powerful reminder that accountability and hope can actually coexist. Rashmi: Yeah. Totally true. Lorena: and I don't know if that was your worst chapter, but I'm gonna say it was probably a really bad chapter. Maybe Rashmi: Yeah. Lorena: that our worst chapter doesn't really have to become our final story. Rashmi: It never is. Lorena: Thank you so much Rashmi: thank you. Lorena: If today's conversation gave you the courage to take the next step or it helped you keep going with the steps you've already taken, then we've done what Rebuild exists exactly to do. Until next time, keep rebuilding.