Latest / The You Project / #1675 Optimise Strengths Or Develop Weaknesses? - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#1675 Optimise Strengths Or Develop Weaknesses? - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

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Speaker 1: I get atm. Welcome to another installing the AR project.
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Speaker 1: My long, long, long, not lost, but long time friend
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Speaker 1: Bobby Capuccio of the self help Antidote and a million
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Speaker 1: other amazing things that he has done and is doing
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Speaker 1: over the years, joins me back on the U Project
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Speaker 1: for the first time in a long time.
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Speaker 2: Hi buddy, Hey, it's been a while. How are you doing.
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Speaker 2: You're good? Emily? Okay? Are you eating enough?
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Speaker 1: Have you been talking with my mum's that's hilarious. It's
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Speaker 1: actually as I'm recording this at seven point thirty three
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Speaker 1: on a Sunday, and after this, not straight after, but
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Speaker 1: after this, I'm heading up to see the dolls. The
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Speaker 1: dolls up in the thriving metropolis of La tre Valley.
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Speaker 1: Four hours of driving for three hours of just you know,
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Speaker 1: Mary's food. So I am. I am heading up there.
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Speaker 2: Are you good?
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Speaker 1: We haven't spoken for a long time. Are you has
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Speaker 1: your body? Are you in the gym? Are you training?
1:02
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Why like looking at me? Is this
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Speaker 2: like calls for concern? Is this something you.
1:07
Speaker 1: Want to No? No, no, but you've always got a
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Speaker 1: few issues like me. I've fucked up my road tight
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Speaker 1: acuff left for a tighter cuff badly, so I'm working
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Speaker 1: around that. How's your body holding up?
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Speaker 2: It's it's crickety. It's like I have to like wake
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Speaker 2: up in the morning like dust myself off, like crack
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Speaker 2: the old joints. Nah, my body's been been struggling a
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Speaker 2: little bit. I don't know if that's like related to
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Speaker 2: my massive injuries that I've acquired over the years. But yeah,
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Speaker 2: but I'm getting on. I'm training regularly, so I trained
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Speaker 2: just about every day Now they're good.
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Speaker 1: How's your brain working? I always love to talk to
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Speaker 1: people who are nearing fifty. I know you're a little
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Speaker 1: bit away, but heading down the heading down the straight.
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Speaker 1: How's your brain working? Do you feel like it's as
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Speaker 1: good as it was when you're in your twenties?
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Speaker 2: Not even close. My brain has been complete shape this year.
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Speaker 2: It's been a rough year cognitive physically, like this this
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Speaker 2: year has been a lot. I realized that halfway through
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Speaker 2: the year I was struggling with burnout because in my
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Speaker 2: work we help a lot of people who are struggling
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Speaker 2: with burnout, A lot of people in the public sector
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Speaker 2: who just keep getting more and more responsibilities and unpredictable
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Speaker 2: shifts dumped on top of them. And as I'm studying
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Speaker 2: the signs and symptoms of burnout, because there was a
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Speaker 2: lot of things that were going on that they didn't
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Speaker 2: understand why they were happening, and it was just so bizarre.
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Speaker 2: So I just kept ignoring it. But as I'm studying
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Speaker 2: more about burnout to you know, help other people, not me,
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Speaker 2: of course, I was like, oh oh wow, I'm deep
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Speaker 2: in it myself. Hmm.
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Speaker 1: All right, So I've got an idea for today, which
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Speaker 1: you know, I said to you I actually planned, and
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Speaker 1: I never planned anything. It's funny. I've got to do
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Speaker 1: two gigs this week for an organization in Melbourne, one
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Speaker 1: on a Tuesday night, one on a Wednesday night, about
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Speaker 1: one thousand people in each and one of the I
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Speaker 1: don't know organizers ladies rang me the other day and
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Speaker 1: said could you get your presentation through by Cob, you know,
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Speaker 1: Clothes of Business. And I said, I don't have a presentation.
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Speaker 1: She goes, but you're presenting Tuesday and Wednesday night. I said, well, look,
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Speaker 1: I have a presentation, but not what you're talking about.
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Speaker 1: I don't have slides, I don't have a video, I
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Speaker 1: don't have She goes, what do you use it's so funny. Oh,
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Speaker 1: I just my mind. I can't really send you that,
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Speaker 1: but I'll bring it with me on the night. So
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Speaker 1: I don't know why I went down that road.
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Speaker 2: I think I think people who don't present regularly have
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Speaker 2: an idea about what a presentation is supposed to be,
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Speaker 2: and usually it's around the deck. So I lead a
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Speaker 2: team of coaches and they did a presentation this past
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Speaker 2: week and just they just crushed it. They're just n
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Speaker 2: it out of the pulk. They were a little bit
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Speaker 2: nervous in the beginning, but they just jumped right into
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Speaker 2: it and they had to skit demonstrating why coaching works
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Speaker 2: rather than other forms of transformation, which do work very well.
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Speaker 2: I'm not saying coaching is the only tool, but just
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Speaker 2: to make a long story short, the audience absolutely loved it,
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Speaker 2: and they're going to be brought in and present for
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Speaker 2: the board and they really prepared, like for a twenty
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Speaker 2: minute presentation. They prepared several hours to get as you know,
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Speaker 2: when you're getting into presenting, that's normal, that's admirable. But
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Speaker 2: one of the things I warned them about is now
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Speaker 2: that you're going out and you're doing this you're going
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Speaker 2: to get a lot of advice on how to present,
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Speaker 2: and most of it's going to come from people who
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Speaker 2: have never really presented before, but they never really present well.
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Speaker 2: And a lot of it's going to be on creating
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Speaker 2: power points and what the power point should look like.
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Speaker 2: And that is about two percent, if you're lucky, of
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Speaker 2: the total impact. So it's just it's just I think
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Speaker 2: people have a lot of anxiety around presentations. When I
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Speaker 2: don't have a presentation, what is this gay get to.
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Speaker 1: Talk about exactly? Well, I think yeah. I think for
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Speaker 1: many people, it's more of a psychological and psychological and
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Speaker 1: emotional safety net. You know, it's like, oh my god,
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Speaker 1: there's that. So even if I blank, there's that, which
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Speaker 1: which I completely understand. And I will say the worst preyer,
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Speaker 1: I've done four horrendous presentations in the last four years, horrendous,
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Speaker 1: and each one of them were standing in front of
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Speaker 1: an academic board presenting my research, and I will say
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Speaker 1: I used PowerPoint like a motherfucker because I was so terrified.
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Speaker 1: It's funny how the person who can talk to a
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Speaker 1: thousand people comfortable, comfortably is terrified to talk to four
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Speaker 1: people and every time, every time you know, on my rating,
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Speaker 1: if I would rate myself one's ten, every time I
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Speaker 1: was a two or three, I was so fucking terrified.
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Speaker 1: But anyway, I guess it's context dependent.
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Speaker 2: Now I think that's interesting, like what happens to someone
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Speaker 2: who speaks for a living and speaks really well for
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Speaker 2: a living. Like amongst speakers, it's like, if you get
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Speaker 2: to a point where you're a professionally paid speaker, that's
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Speaker 2: really cool. But if you're a professionally paid speaker and
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Speaker 2: you do really well amongst your peers in that environment, well,
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Speaker 2: that's something else. That's something that very few people do
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Speaker 2: exceedingly well. And then you get into a different context,
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Speaker 2: and someone who performs at a very high level finds
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Speaker 2: themselves in a position where they're struggling. That's not a
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Speaker 2: lack of skill, that's a psychological dynamic. That's a story
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Speaker 2: you're telling yourself. That's how you're framing the situation. I mean,
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Speaker 2: so much of presenting is what's going on in your
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Speaker 2: inner world and how that shows up in your outer world.
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Speaker 2: And I think it's cool to hear that people that
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Speaker 2: are at the top of their field still struggle with
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Speaker 2: the same things that other people are kind of self
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Speaker 2: conscious and afraid of.
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Speaker 1: I've always had an inferiority complex about my perceived lack
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Speaker 1: of intelligence, and so when I Understandabook, yeah, no, thank you,
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Speaker 1: and thanks for reinforcing that back in therapy for me.
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Speaker 1: But I don't disagree with you. That's the worst part.
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Speaker 1: I actually agree with you. But yeah, but then when
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Speaker 1: you go and you know, we want you to just
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Speaker 1: stand in front of these four professors and tell them
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Speaker 1: about your research and while why the world needs it,
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Speaker 1: and you to fucking take this out of the darkness
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Speaker 1: and bring it into the light of new evidence and
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Speaker 1: data and whatever. You know. So but you know, you
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Speaker 1: get that we're all works in progress. You know, I think,
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Speaker 1: I think for people like you and me that stand
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Speaker 1: in front of a lot of audiences and write and
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Speaker 1: teach and coach and all of these things. But for
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Speaker 1: me anyway, I think it makes me more relatable. I
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Speaker 1: don't do it to be more relatable, but I think
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Speaker 1: the fact that you know, I'm pretty good at some things,
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Speaker 1: I'm not bad at others, and I'm fucking terrible at
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Speaker 1: a bunch, but I'm a work in progress. And you know,
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Speaker 1: I find waited till I got all my shit together
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Speaker 1: and got everything fully functional and operational. Before I coached
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Speaker 1: or taught or spoke or wrote or did a podcast,
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Speaker 1: I'd never do anything, you know, I think.
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Speaker 2: I think that comes down to a couple of questions,
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Speaker 2: right One, What is intelligence? I think that's a critical question.
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Speaker 2: So if you're talking to a chemical engineer who can't
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Speaker 2: stand up in front of a room and string a
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Speaker 2: few sentences together to save his life, is that person
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Speaker 2: not intelligent? Where if you stepped into their domain you'd
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Speaker 2: be completely lost? So is it about a certain area
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Speaker 2: of knowledge? Is lack of knowledge equated with lack of intellect?
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Speaker 1: Not?
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Speaker 2: Really, It's like what are you trying to do and
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Speaker 2: what are the tools and resources you have to effectively
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Speaker 2: do that thing? You know, we always it's like the
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Speaker 2: head of the accounting department being upset with the head
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Speaker 2: of marketing for not being more intelligent and accounting, Yeah,
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Speaker 2: because I'm in marketing. I mean, obviously there's a lot
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Speaker 2: of spreadsheets and data driven decision making and marketing as well.
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Speaker 2: But they're two different skill sets and they should be.
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Speaker 2: I think sometimes we look at other people and we
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Speaker 2: judge ourselves by that comparison or other people look at
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Speaker 2: individuals and judge them by what I'm competent in. It's rediculous,
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Speaker 2: isn't it.
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Speaker 1: Well, you and I have a mutual friend known as
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Speaker 1: the Crab, and you know the crab. I think the
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Speaker 1: Crab finished school at e ten or eleven. And I've
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Speaker 1: said this many times, but if you ever made any
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Speaker 1: real world practical intelligence, fucking don't look to me, you know,
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Speaker 1: just ask if it's anything that requires any level of
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Speaker 1: ingenuity problem solving in the real world, any kind of
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Speaker 1: any kind of practical skills, Like if you get stuck
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Speaker 1: on a desert island, do not get stuck with me.
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Speaker 1: Get stuck with a crab, because he'll build a city
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Speaker 1: within about six months.
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Speaker 2: I was talking about the Crab the other day in
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Speaker 2: a meeting, in a business meeting, the Crab came up.
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Speaker 2: I mean, nobody else brought it up, and I'm referring
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Speaker 2: to walk as the crab. So I got a couple
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Speaker 2: of weird looks. I miss him, like I miss seeing
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Speaker 2: him on a consistent basis.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well he talked about we often talk about you,
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Speaker 1: all right, So my intention coming into today's chat with this,
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Speaker 1: I've stolen a bunch of your quotes, and I want
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Speaker 1: you to riff I've got maybe what have I got?
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Speaker 1: I'm organized? This is you know, this could be a
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Speaker 1: train wreck because I've actually planned and we know that
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Speaker 1: it's not my it's not my operating system. All right,
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Speaker 1: So I'm either going to make a statement or ask
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Speaker 1: a question. Which you've written this is all your stuff,
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Speaker 1: and then I want you to riff on each thing
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Speaker 1: for about three or four minutes.
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Speaker 2: How's that? I probably should have had that extra cup
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Speaker 2: of coffee, but let's go all right.
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Speaker 1: Number one is, now, these are either things other people
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Speaker 1: have said and then you've you've taken that and shared
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Speaker 1: it and riffed on it, or these are original, you know,
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Speaker 1: bobby things, and some of them are questions. Like I said,
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Speaker 1: So number one is sleep is for the lazy and weak.
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Speaker 2: Oh this came up in a purse the other day. Yes,
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Speaker 2: somebody had. Somebody had written that I've never met a
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Speaker 2: single successful person that got to the end of their
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Speaker 2: life and thought to themselves, I wish I had slapped more.
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Speaker 2: And the implications are pretty obvious there. My question is,
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Speaker 2: how do you define success? Have you ever met someone
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Speaker 2: who got to the end of their life and said, Wow,
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Speaker 2: I wish I didn't focus so much on meaningful relationships.
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Speaker 2: I wish I wasn't as creative. I wish I didn't
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Speaker 2: have the ability to concentrate and focus and get into flow.
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Speaker 2: I wish I didn't have the level of working memory
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Speaker 2: to go ahead and innovate. I wish I didn't have
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Speaker 2: greater resilience. Because when you're talking about sleep, and this
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Speaker 2: isn't like you don't need me to rattle on, and
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Speaker 2: if you don't want to read the ountless thousands of
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Speaker 2: peer reviewed studies that all point to the same exact thing,
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Speaker 2: that the percentage of people that can get by on
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Speaker 2: lack of sleep and still function, because there is a
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Speaker 2: percentage of people that can do that, according to the research,
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Speaker 2: and that percentage is zero. I mean, just go out
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Speaker 2: shortcut read Matt Walks Why We Sleep, Go through that
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Speaker 2: with an open read it once, maybe read it twice.
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Speaker 2: I mean, you know you have the time to do
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Speaker 2: this if you have this psychological frame, because we know
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Speaker 2: you're not wasting time on frivolous things like sleeping. Read
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Speaker 2: the book and then let's have a conversation. Sleep is
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Speaker 2: one of those well being practices. Here's something that's really
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Speaker 2: important about well being. So Gallop, I don't want to
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Speaker 2: go off on a tangent on this. Gallup did over
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Speaker 2: one hundred million intensive interviews with people representing ninety eight
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Speaker 2: percent of the world's population. So it's not like people
13:34
Speaker 2: in Melbourne believe this and you know, and a little
13:38
Speaker 2: bit in Hong Kong, but we don't know about the
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Speaker 2: rest of the world. And they found that the number
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Speaker 2: one predictor of well being was in fact job satisfaction, right,
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Speaker 2: And that's not a surprise when you unpack it and
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Speaker 2: when you when you understand the reasoning and how they
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Speaker 2: explain that by the way well Being at Work by
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Speaker 2: Clifton and Harder, great book if you want to read
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Speaker 2: more about that. But there's also an inverse relationship. The
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Speaker 2: greater your level of wellbeing, the greater the likelihood that
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Speaker 2: you're engaged and resilient in your work. Because right now,
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Speaker 2: lack of wellbeing, lack of resilience and burnout. Not lazy
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Speaker 2: people who are tired, very driven people who for a
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Speaker 2: variety of factors, have gotten to the end of themselves.
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Speaker 2: And the harder the try, the worse they perform. Sleep
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Speaker 2: is a critical as are multiple wellbeing practice as critical
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Speaker 2: piece of that puzzle. So I don't know if that
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Speaker 2: really answers your question, but you did say.
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Speaker 1: Riff perfect all right. Number two is a question, and
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Speaker 1: the question is the pursuit of happiness a misguided endeavor? Now,
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Speaker 1: by the way, if you want to go deep on
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Speaker 1: all of those everyone, Bobby's LinkedIn pages where I stole
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Speaker 1: all those from, so follow him on LinkedIn. There's great
14:58
Speaker 1: videos of him on there. You can see he's pretty
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Speaker 1: fece and just some great writing on this. So if
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Speaker 1: you want to unpack this stuff and see the origin
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Speaker 1: for those questions, got this. So the question is is
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Speaker 1: the pursuit of happiness a misguided endeavor? And go.
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Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit of a trap. I
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Speaker 2: think it's one of the most galvanizing things that all
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Speaker 2: human beings strive for. And like here in my country,
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Speaker 2: you know, we talk about life, liberty and the pursuit
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Speaker 2: of happiness, and you think after chasing something for a
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Speaker 2: couple of hundred years, most people would have caught it
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Speaker 2: by now. But it seems to be moving faster and
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Speaker 2: faster and evading more and more people. I think not
15:39
Speaker 2: not to respond to a quote with a quote, but
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Speaker 2: man search for meaning, written by doctor Victor Frankel, he
15:46
Speaker 2: has the unique distinction of having paid dearly for the
15:50
Speaker 2: insights he arrived at when he was alive, being a
15:53
Speaker 2: prisoner at auschwitzen Dachau. And he wrote that success like
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Speaker 2: happiness cannot be pursued. It must ensue as an unintended
16:05
Speaker 2: side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater
16:10
Speaker 2: than oneself. I think when you identify what you value,
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Speaker 2: what is meaningful, what inspires you, what makes you feel alive,
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Speaker 2: and you go after that thing, you dig into it
16:23
Speaker 2: and you do the work, not necessarily because it's going
16:27
Speaker 2: to bring about an outcome, and there's nothing wrong with that,
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Speaker 2: but you do it for its own sake, because it's
16:32
Speaker 2: intrinsically valuable. And if you go beyond actualization to transcendence,
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Speaker 2: you do it because it contributes to someone or something
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Speaker 2: bigger than you. I think happiness is what shows up inevitably,
16:46
Speaker 2: but I think happiness as a pursuit is almost a
16:50
Speaker 2: guarantee that it will elude you. And that's not to
16:54
Speaker 2: say that hedonic pleasures don't have a place. They really do,
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Speaker 2: You know, I want to go out with my wife
17:00
Speaker 2: and you know, from our roof deck and watch a sunset.
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Speaker 2: I want to have a glass of wine. I want
17:06
Speaker 2: to eat some great food and have great conversation. But
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Speaker 2: that's by itself, is kind of fleeting. That'll make me happy,
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Speaker 2: like you know, for for the sum total of an hour.
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Speaker 2: But I think, you know, digging into meaning and your
17:19
Speaker 2: life's again work and well being. You got to ask yourself,
17:24
Speaker 2: can I just can I just tangent off of this
17:27
Speaker 2: format for one second because.
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Speaker 1: I'm not sure? But all right, So.
17:33
Speaker 2: I've read, you know, I've read like quite a few
17:36
Speaker 2: books by Gallup because the depth and breadth of their
17:39
Speaker 2: research I find highly insightful. And over the past couple
17:43
Speaker 2: of months, I've read not only well Being at Work,
17:46
Speaker 2: but it's the manager. So I've been on this Gallagher
17:49
Speaker 2: not Gallagher, That's that's who organization I work with. But
17:53
Speaker 2: I've been on this Gallop kick for a while. And
17:57
Speaker 2: I got a chance to do a presentation a Gallup
18:00
Speaker 2: consultant for a massive school district out here on the
18:04
Speaker 2: west coast of the US. And before the presentation, I'm
18:08
Speaker 2: sitting with her and we're just we're just getting to
18:10
Speaker 2: know each other and I'm just like, I'm just a
18:12
Speaker 2: complete fanboy. And I asked the question. You know, everybody
18:16
Speaker 2: talks about well being, but it's like mindset. Everyone's got
18:20
Speaker 2: a different definition, you know being that well being is
18:23
Speaker 2: at the center of Gallup's research. How do you define
18:27
Speaker 2: well being? What she said was brilliant. She said, well
18:31
Speaker 2: being is everything that's important to you. In other words,
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Speaker 2: everything and everyone you love, what you think about most
18:41
Speaker 2: of the time, and the experience you have of living.
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Speaker 2: I was like, wow, that's amazing. So when you talk
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Speaker 2: about happiness, happiness is a byproduct of living in alignment
18:59
Speaker 2: with well being. And it's not just about you know,
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Speaker 2: smoothies and meditation and yoga poses, all of which may or
19:09
Speaker 2: may not be great, right the smooth The smoothie is
19:12
Speaker 2: a little bit iffy, but it's it's it's about vision,
19:19
Speaker 2: it's about purpose, it's about optimization. Otherwise you're not going
19:24
Speaker 2: to get there because there's going to be too many
19:26
Speaker 2: disruptors that's stopping you from enjoying a life of well being.
19:32
Speaker 2: And when you're when you're enjoying a life of wellbeing,
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Speaker 2: I think you're just so much more valuable to yourself
19:38
Speaker 2: to others impactful. I'm not talking about it on a
19:41
Speaker 2: global scale. I'm talking about a personally meaningful scale.
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Speaker 1: Well, that was a very good answer. By the way,
19:47
Speaker 1: everyone man search remaining that Bobby was talking about by
19:50
Speaker 1: Victor Frankel is the book. If you want to go,
19:53
Speaker 1: have a look at that great book. I read that
19:55
Speaker 1: book years ago and years ago. For me, it was
19:59
Speaker 1: transformative and gave me a level of perspective that I
20:04
Speaker 1: did not have until I read that book. Number three
20:08
Speaker 1: is a question and then a comment. The question is
20:12
Speaker 1: can positive affirmations boost self confidence and help us manage
20:18
Speaker 1: stress more effectively? The answer is both yes and no.
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Speaker 2: Robert, So, affirmations are pretty popular, and you scroll through
20:30
Speaker 2: your social media feed and you will find a self
20:32
Speaker 2: help guru within three point four seconds approximately that will
20:38
Speaker 2: tell you some form of affirmation. Well, there's some empirical
20:41
Speaker 2: evidence on it as well. So if by affirmations I
20:45
Speaker 2: mean staring myself in the mirror and saying nice things
20:48
Speaker 2: to myself, it's probably not going to work. And if
20:52
Speaker 2: my affirmations doesn't match my self concept, they'll probably do
20:57
Speaker 2: more harm than good. So, in other words, if I'm
20:59
Speaker 2: struggling financially and I say with confidence, I am, you know,
21:05
Speaker 2: wealthy and financially independent. All I'm really doing is illuminating
21:11
Speaker 2: the distance between where I am and where I really
21:15
Speaker 2: wish I need to be. So that's that's not a
21:19
Speaker 2: good thing, because somebody who is something doesn't have to
21:22
Speaker 2: continually profess it, Like someone who feels strong and resilient
21:26
Speaker 2: isn't sitting there going I am strong, I am resilient.
21:29
Speaker 2: I am strong, I am resilient. So those types of
21:33
Speaker 2: affirmations contradict my actual belief system about myself. It widens
21:39
Speaker 2: the gap, it doesn't narrowly. So that's the first thing.
21:42
Speaker 2: Second thing, Abrahem Sene, I think that I think that's
21:46
Speaker 2: who I mentioned in that post. I've referenced him a
21:49
Speaker 2: lot of times. He took groups of people and without
21:52
Speaker 2: getting into the details of the study, they were framed
21:55
Speaker 2: with I will right, so I will wake up and
21:58
Speaker 2: you know, go to the gym at five o'clock in
22:00
Speaker 2: the morning, versus flipping it to will I now I will.
22:05
Speaker 2: People interesting things happen. Not only did they not improve
22:09
Speaker 2: in their performance or their behaviors that would lead to
22:12
Speaker 2: a certain outcome, they did worse than their baseline, and
22:16
Speaker 2: when asked why was that, It's like, Okay, well, I
22:19
Speaker 2: will wake up and go to the gym every morning
22:22
Speaker 2: at five am. That's my affirmation. But when I look
22:25
Speaker 2: back the past three New Years, my resolution was to
22:31
Speaker 2: lose five kilos. I actually ended up gaining two last year.
22:35
Speaker 2: So when I do that, I think I'm kind of
22:37
Speaker 2: full of shit all little bit, and I keep reminding
22:41
Speaker 2: myself of my lack of self efficacy and follow through
22:45
Speaker 2: every time I do that affirmation. So if I flip
22:49
Speaker 2: that will I Well, that's an open ended question, and
22:52
Speaker 2: that does a couple of things. One, it doesn't allow
22:56
Speaker 2: for the possibility of no, you won't that little voice
22:58
Speaker 2: in your head every time you say I will you know,
23:02
Speaker 2: I will pass up on the dessert and then the
23:04
Speaker 2: cheesecake comes around and it seduced me. You know, something
23:08
Speaker 2: like that. But what it also does is it allows
23:13
Speaker 2: for you to engage your prefrontal lobes, the planning executive
23:19
Speaker 2: reasoning action take taking center of your brain, the part
23:24
Speaker 2: of your brain that allows you to imagine something in
23:27
Speaker 2: the future and start to create plans that support that
23:31
Speaker 2: future outcome that you desire. Questions have the ability to
23:35
Speaker 2: do that because when you're in a state of high anxiety,
23:39
Speaker 2: when you're in a state of high doubt, or you're
23:43
Speaker 2: kind of feeling afraid, or there's a disruptive emotion that's
23:49
Speaker 2: getting in the way of you taking action. When you
23:52
Speaker 2: start to ask yourself questions, you start to upregulate your
23:56
Speaker 2: executive centers, your prefrontal lobes. So questions in the form
24:00
Speaker 2: of affirmations could be highly valuable, like will I wake
24:05
Speaker 2: up or or what is it that I know about
24:09
Speaker 2: myself that makes it likely I will wake up at
24:14
Speaker 2: five o'clock in the morning and go to the gym,
24:17
Speaker 2: Because now you're starting to not only on a neurobiological level,
24:23
Speaker 2: up regulate the centers of your brain that you need
24:26
Speaker 2: to lay those plans, but you're starting to search for
24:29
Speaker 2: areas of strength for attributes that you've utilized in the past.
24:34
Speaker 2: It's an expansive and highly constructive type of question. So
24:39
Speaker 2: if you're affirming something, it's got to be rooted in
24:43
Speaker 2: something you value. There has to be an emotional impetus
24:47
Speaker 2: behind that affirmation, and it has to be rooted in
24:51
Speaker 2: something that's not contradictory to all of the evidence that
24:55
Speaker 2: you've shown so far, and sometimes flipping that into a
24:58
Speaker 2: question could be very useful.
25:02
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it all right, next one,
25:05
Speaker 1: Sometimes the hardest part of making meaningful changes in our
25:09
Speaker 1: lives is simply getting started. This is no this is
25:14
Speaker 1: no major revelation, but I think it's important to unpack
25:18
Speaker 1: because so many of us are the one struggle to
25:22
Speaker 1: actually start, like with theoretical GENIEI but you know, we
25:28
Speaker 1: to actually get the wheels turning, create momentum and be
25:30
Speaker 1: in the middle of the process. Or we start, some
25:35
Speaker 1: of us start and within a short period of time
25:37
Speaker 1: we've we've stopped. So the statement was sometimes the hardest
25:42
Speaker 1: part of making meaningful changes in our lives is simply
25:46
Speaker 1: getting started.
25:47
Speaker 2: I think everybody, if we're honest with ourselves, has experienced
25:51
Speaker 2: that we wanted to do something, but we found ourselves
25:53
Speaker 2: perpetually getting ready to get ready, and there we could
25:57
Speaker 2: do a three hour show on Josh. The reasons for that,
26:01
Speaker 2: it's not because something's deficient or wrong with somebody, because
26:06
Speaker 2: in some areas we have trouble getting started. In other
26:09
Speaker 2: areas were absolutely brilliant, and other people envious. They look
26:12
Speaker 2: at us and go wow, I wish I had that
26:14
Speaker 2: level of initiative. So it's deeper than that. But when
26:19
Speaker 2: you take a look at predictability around behavior change, let's
26:23
Speaker 2: look at one of the most ubiquitously utilized models of
26:28
Speaker 2: therapy and coaching, which is motivational interviewing by William J.
26:33
Speaker 2: Miller and Stephen Ralnick. There's certain levels of predictability and
26:38
Speaker 2: it could be framed in the acronym DAMN CAT right,
26:41
Speaker 2: So DAMN stands for desire, ability, reasons, and need. So
26:47
Speaker 2: when people start talking about a desire to change, like
26:51
Speaker 2: instead of I should, I want to, that's a predictor
26:55
Speaker 2: of what is change talk where you start to not
26:58
Speaker 2: only acknowledge the need for change, but you also talk
27:02
Speaker 2: about the strategies for change and the frameworks by which
27:06
Speaker 2: you're going to initiate change. A stands for ability, right,
27:12
Speaker 2: like I can do this. A lot of times we
27:14
Speaker 2: have a desire, but we have very low level of
27:16
Speaker 2: confidence in our abilities. Or sometimes it's flipped like I
27:20
Speaker 2: know I can do this change, but I really don't
27:22
Speaker 2: have a strong, deeply rooted desire for it. And then
27:26
Speaker 2: there's reasons, and then there's there's a need, right, Like
27:29
Speaker 2: what's the need for me to change. And there's that
27:31
Speaker 2: story about this three frogs sitting on a log on
27:34
Speaker 2: a hot summer's day. One of the frogs thinks to themselves,
27:38
Speaker 2: you know what, I really want to jump into that
27:40
Speaker 2: cool pond and cool myself off. And the question is, well,
27:44
Speaker 2: how many frogs are now sitting on the log? And
27:46
Speaker 2: the answer is still three. One frog thought about it,
27:50
Speaker 2: wanted to do it. Doesn't mean they took any action
27:52
Speaker 2: and followed through. But all of those are predictors of change. Talk. Now,
27:59
Speaker 2: where the predictors start to get amplified is in the cat.
28:05
Speaker 2: The C stands for commitment. When somebody starts to go
28:09
Speaker 2: from I want to to I will, it's a much
28:13
Speaker 2: stronger predictor. Or the A is activation where I'm ready,
28:18
Speaker 2: like everybody has this magical day Monday, Monday, I'm gonna
28:22
Speaker 2: do this, or the first of the year, New Year's resolution.
28:26
Speaker 2: When somebody is like I'm ready, when is ready now? Right?
28:30
Speaker 2: That becomes a much stronger predictor. But the strongest predictor
28:35
Speaker 2: that you are going to follow through in a series
28:38
Speaker 2: of behaviors that are in lined with an outcome is
28:41
Speaker 2: when you start to utilize the languaging of I am.
28:46
Speaker 2: That's when you already have taken action. So sometimes it's
28:50
Speaker 2: not about changing everything. Like I want to lose weight,
28:53
Speaker 2: So tomorrow I'm going to stop drinking. I'm gonna stop
28:57
Speaker 2: eating my favorite foods. I'm gonna sign up with it.
29:00
Speaker 2: If you could just do one thing, but get going,
29:04
Speaker 2: Like right now, what's the most accessible thing? I mean,
29:08
Speaker 2: obviously all those things are important, but what are you
29:10
Speaker 2: willing to do right now? Because once you start doing something,
29:15
Speaker 2: even a small thing, that supports a level of self efficacy,
29:20
Speaker 2: and it also starts to change your identity. Like so
29:23
Speaker 2: if you take a look at the work of BJ Fogg,
29:26
Speaker 2: which I know Paul Taylor has talked about extensively, or
29:30
Speaker 2: James Clear in his book Atomic Habits, we overestimate the
29:34
Speaker 2: power of discipline and will power in the long term,
29:38
Speaker 2: but we underestimate the power of restructuring our environment and
29:43
Speaker 2: our identity. So if you really want to do something,
29:49
Speaker 2: what's the most powerful indicator that you're that person that's
29:54
Speaker 2: going to take that action. If you've already started taking
29:57
Speaker 2: that action, you already start to see yourself at a
30:00
Speaker 2: small degree as being someone who is health conscious, as
30:04
Speaker 2: being an exercise. So the most important thing is to
30:07
Speaker 2: get going with something.
30:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm doing a Monday night mentoring group. And
30:15
Speaker 1: you know, as you know, when you're coaching and teaching
30:17
Speaker 1: and mentoring, you're basically the guy or the girl up
30:21
Speaker 1: the front. Just you know, even with this podcast, we're
30:23
Speaker 1: just talking about a bunch of ideas and theories and strategies,
30:27
Speaker 1: but ultimately, for the listener, it's just theory. And I'm
30:31
Speaker 1: and I'm always impressing upon my group. This is not
30:36
Speaker 1: the work. Monday night with me is not the work.
30:39
Speaker 1: It's just the check in, right, You're like, your task
30:43
Speaker 1: is not to turn up on Monday night and listen
30:46
Speaker 1: to me for an hour and a half or two
30:47
Speaker 1: hours and take notes and ask a few random questions.
30:51
Speaker 1: Your real challenge is what happens after Monday night at
30:55
Speaker 1: nine o'clock. You know, It's like what I care about.
30:59
Speaker 1: I don't even care if you turn up because it's
31:00
Speaker 1: all recorded. They can watch it whenever I want them
31:03
Speaker 1: to turn up. But what I really care about is
31:06
Speaker 1: what happens in one hundred and sixty six intervening hours,
31:10
Speaker 1: you know, between Friday and Monday night at nine and
31:14
Speaker 1: then the following Monday night at seven, you know, like,
31:17
Speaker 1: tell me what you're doing, because it is that it
31:22
Speaker 1: is that you know, like you said before, is knowledge intelligence?
31:26
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, yeah, there are so many knowledgeable people
31:30
Speaker 1: who are not necessarily intelligent or are not applying the
31:34
Speaker 1: knowledge in an intelligent way and therefore not creating the
31:37
Speaker 1: outcomes they want. But fuck, they know a lot, they
31:41
Speaker 1: know a lot, they're just not doing a lot, achieving
31:43
Speaker 1: a lot, or changing a lot. And that's that is
31:46
Speaker 1: another three hour podcast right there. But just that I
31:51
Speaker 1: think also, mate, like the idea of fully committing I
31:59
Speaker 1: think scares people because people people some people like a
32:03
Speaker 1: get out of jail card. They want to be able
32:06
Speaker 1: to give themselves an escape clause like look, I tell
32:09
Speaker 1: you what, I'll see how it goes. I'll no, don't
32:14
Speaker 1: fucking see how it goes. Do it just yet?
32:18
Speaker 2: You know. That's and also to look at that though,
32:21
Speaker 2: all right, go ahead.
32:22
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, of course it's not going to be fun, quick, easy, painless, comfortable,
32:27
Speaker 1: familiar some of the time. Some of the time it
32:31
Speaker 1: will be fucking horrible. You'll not want to do it,
32:34
Speaker 1: you won't enjoy it. Sometimes sometimes you'll be terrified. Sometimes
32:41
Speaker 1: it'll be awesome. Sometimes you'll be growing and adapting and
32:44
Speaker 1: you'll be like, fuck, look at me. And then other
32:46
Speaker 1: times you'll be going backwards for whatever reason. That's the journey.
32:51
Speaker 1: But sitting on the metaphoric couch waiting for a sign
32:54
Speaker 1: from the universe, crossing your fingers, hoping that you might
32:57
Speaker 1: get inspired this week was fucking plan ever, no argument there.
33:04
Speaker 2: And there's two ways. There's two ways to approach this.
33:08
Speaker 2: One is I am going to go full in one
33:10
Speaker 2: hundred and get this out of my life. Because it's
33:15
Speaker 2: a little bit harder. Let's say I go all in
33:17
Speaker 2: with with pizza. I will never eat pizza again. Like
33:21
Speaker 2: it's not like, well, I'm going to cut back on pizza.
33:23
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm just the type of person that doesn't
33:25
Speaker 2: eat pizza. It's done for some people, like closing off
33:29
Speaker 2: any other possibility, like shutting the door on pizza and
33:33
Speaker 2: never looking back, really works for other people for so
33:37
Speaker 2: many reasons. I have an act of recidivism. I eat
33:42
Speaker 2: pizza and then I'm done. Oh my god, I've I've
33:44
Speaker 2: fallen off the wagon. Start small and do Here's a story.
33:51
Speaker 2: I just remembered the story.
33:52
Speaker 1: This is not a story that we love a good story.
33:56
Speaker 2: Many many years ago, the first time I was ever
33:59
Speaker 2: living with a girlfriend, I was like very young. I
34:02
Speaker 2: must have been like twenty, like twenty one. Anyway, I
34:05
Speaker 2: was really young. I get woken up. It's two o'clock
34:09
Speaker 2: in the morning. My girlfriend is straddling my shoulders. Her
34:15
Speaker 2: knees are on my shoulders. She's got a fork and
34:19
Speaker 2: she's force feeding me cake half awake, whilst I can't
34:23
Speaker 2: move because her knees are like hitting me down to
34:26
Speaker 2: the bed. It was kind of hot. If I'm going
34:29
Speaker 2: to be honest, but you're a fucking idiot. After I'm
34:32
Speaker 2: swallowing the cake, I mean, ask Nick, what are you doing?
34:36
Speaker 2: And she's like, okay, I've brought friends over. I was
34:40
Speaker 2: out and I want you to come out and join us.
34:43
Speaker 2: And we just brought a cake and you're not going
34:45
Speaker 2: to pull this not eating cake shit, and she.
34:49
Speaker 1: Hang hang on, hang on. So you were asleep, she
34:52
Speaker 1: was out.
34:52
Speaker 2: I was asleep. She was out. She's probably a little
34:56
Speaker 2: bit intoxicated, to be fair.
34:58
Speaker 1: Right, And so she comes home kneels on you wait,
35:01
Speaker 1: my mind did go in a few directions at the
35:04
Speaker 1: start of this story, but that's okay.
35:06
Speaker 2: So so she has her knees on my shoulders and
35:10
Speaker 2: I wake up. I'm like, and then there's there's this
35:12
Speaker 2: fork and it's in and she's shoveling cake down my
35:17
Speaker 2: throat and it's like, what are you doing? This is insane.
35:21
Speaker 2: She's like, nope, I've got people over come on outside,
35:25
Speaker 2: hang out. We're gonna have some cake. And she knew
35:27
Speaker 2: she had to do that because at that point, getting
35:30
Speaker 2: me to eat cake, you had better luck trying to
35:34
Speaker 2: squeeze water out of a stone. And here's the reason
35:37
Speaker 2: why we've all had this. We go on a quote
35:39
Speaker 2: unquote diet. Right, this is back early like in my
35:41
Speaker 2: bodybuilding days, I had such a hard time starting a
35:45
Speaker 2: diet because I really loved bagels, and I loved pasta,
35:50
Speaker 2: and I absolutely loved pizza. And you would start and
35:54
Speaker 2: then something would happen, and then you start again. But
35:57
Speaker 2: after a while it becomes harder and harder for you
36:01
Speaker 2: to get off track. For a few reasons. There's loss
36:05
Speaker 2: of version. Right, there's I've put in so much work
36:08
Speaker 2: and effort, I don't want to blow it. But there's something,
36:11
Speaker 2: there's something deeper, and it goes back to identity. It's
36:13
Speaker 2: just I am the type of person now that eats
36:16
Speaker 2: a certain way. And my girlfriend was like, knew that
36:20
Speaker 2: I had gotten so deep down this rabbit hole of
36:23
Speaker 2: what I do and do not eat, and it was
36:25
Speaker 2: part of my identity. It's just like the only way
36:27
Speaker 2: I'm going to break this is if I force them
36:29
Speaker 2: to have some cake. There you go, you broke it.
36:31
Speaker 2: You've had cake, Come out and have some more. Because
36:33
Speaker 2: there was no way that I would come out into
36:35
Speaker 2: the living room, sit down and have cake with people
36:38
Speaker 2: at three in the morning. Just wouldn't do it. Or
36:41
Speaker 2: two in the morning whenever. So if you're going to start,
36:46
Speaker 2: how's about this. Don't change anything you eat. If you
36:50
Speaker 2: go out and you have your pizza, don't change that.
36:53
Speaker 2: You go out and you have whatever you define as
36:56
Speaker 2: junk food, don't change it. Add something to your diet.
37:00
Speaker 2: Start to add plants, Start to add a variety of
37:03
Speaker 2: vegetables to things that you're already eating. One, if your
37:07
Speaker 2: diet's bad enough, you desperately need those nutrients to begin with,
37:11
Speaker 2: you're doing your body a world of good. But two,
37:13
Speaker 2: at a very small level, you can't deny that you're
37:18
Speaker 2: doing things that a person who's conscientious about their health
37:21
Speaker 2: is doing. After a while, those behaviors are going to
37:24
Speaker 2: start to expand. Like in the gym business, some gyms
37:28
Speaker 2: will do the research and they'll figure out if somebody
37:30
Speaker 2: walks through the front door of our facility eight times
37:34
Speaker 2: within a month, the likelihood that they're going to stay
37:38
Speaker 2: and they're not going to cancel their membership after a
37:40
Speaker 2: month goes up exponentially. So those gyms can say, Craig,
37:44
Speaker 2: you know, I know that you haven't been in a gym,
37:46
Speaker 2: you know, for the past decade, and you're not really
37:49
Speaker 2: sure if this is for you. What if that concern
37:52
Speaker 2: was not even an issue, you didn't have to worry
37:55
Speaker 2: about follow through at all. What would you do right now?
37:58
Speaker 2: What would be your first step? And they can give
38:01
Speaker 2: you a money back guarantee. You know what, We have
38:03
Speaker 2: a money back guarantee because we understand people are uncertain.
38:07
Speaker 2: As long as you come to the gym eight times
38:10
Speaker 2: this month to prove that you've given yourself and this
38:14
Speaker 2: new lifestyle a chance. If at the end of thirty
38:16
Speaker 2: days eight visits you're not happy, we'll refund your money,
38:21
Speaker 2: no questions asked, because they know if you've walked into
38:24
Speaker 2: that gym eight times, the chances of you doing that
38:27
Speaker 2: are very slim. Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, starting
38:33
Speaker 2: with just start with one behavior. And here's another reason
38:38
Speaker 2: why that works. It's like going to the doctor and going, ah,
38:41
Speaker 2: you know what, I keep having I keep having this issue,
38:44
Speaker 2: and they write you a script for five different drugs,
38:47
Speaker 2: which probably is not a very ethical thing to do.
38:50
Speaker 2: But we come back a month later and you're like, well,
38:53
Speaker 2: I'm feeling so much better. Well, which drug was doing it?
38:56
Speaker 2: We have no idea or I'm having these side effects.
39:00
Speaker 2: You know, I wake up at the morning and there's
39:02
Speaker 2: this lesion on my face. We don't know what drug
39:04
Speaker 2: is doing it. So sometimes starting small, but start works.
39:09
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've told this story once or twice, but over
39:13
Speaker 1: six years, so most people won't have heard it more
39:17
Speaker 1: than a few times. I had clients who had come
39:19
Speaker 1: to me back in the day when I was on
39:21
Speaker 1: the gym floor, brand new people, and among you know,
39:25
Speaker 1: all the myriad of things that they probably needed to address,
39:29
Speaker 1: you know, from lifestyle to booze, to food to drugs
39:32
Speaker 1: to you know whatever, sleep. I had quite a few people.
39:37
Speaker 1: This is back in the day when a lot more
39:39
Speaker 1: people smoked, but quite a lot of people who smoked
39:42
Speaker 1: more than fifty cigarettes a day, which seems crazy, but
39:45
Speaker 1: back in the day was not totally rare. And I
39:49
Speaker 1: knew that if I said to somebody who smoked sixty
39:52
Speaker 1: cigarettes a day, okay, so today's your last cigarette, the
39:57
Speaker 1: chances of that sticking were zero, And so we would
40:01
Speaker 1: literally set a smoking goal for the week, you know,
40:05
Speaker 1: fifty a day. And people are like, I can't believe
40:10
Speaker 1: you're setting a goal for him to have fifty cigarettes
40:13
Speaker 1: to day. I go, well, in the if you step
40:16
Speaker 1: out of the micro and zoom back into the macro
40:19
Speaker 1: and you see what I'm doing, and you realize that
40:22
Speaker 1: this person's been smoking for thirty years, the chances of
40:26
Speaker 1: them stopping today because I said stop today are zero.
40:30
Speaker 1: So fifty cigarettes today is better than sixty. And over
40:34
Speaker 1: time we're going to bring that right down. But the
40:36
Speaker 1: most logical strategy would not be to go cold turkey today.
40:42
Speaker 1: But I love you thinking, all right, we've got ten minutes,
40:45
Speaker 1: let's move on. This one's a little bit different. I
40:47
Speaker 1: like this, I like all of them. Imagine a swim instructor.
40:51
Speaker 1: This is part of a bigger thing. That you wrote.
40:54
Speaker 1: Of course, imagine a swim instructor telling a beginner to
40:57
Speaker 1: just work harder instead of teaching them proper techniques. I
41:03
Speaker 1: feel like that happens, or a version of that happens.
41:06
Speaker 1: I'll side again for the listeners. Imagine a swim instructor
41:09
Speaker 1: telling a beginner, in other words, someone who can't swim
41:12
Speaker 1: to just work harder instead of teaching them proper techniques.
41:16
Speaker 1: That happens quite a bit, doesn't it.
41:18
Speaker 2: Well. I think that's the default a lot of times,
41:21
Speaker 2: And sometimes I have criticisms about self help gurus. Now,
41:26
Speaker 2: a lot of amazing work is done through self help,
41:29
Speaker 2: and there are a lot of amazing speakers and educators
41:32
Speaker 2: in that space. My criticism is it's one of the
41:36
Speaker 2: only domains in life where you're a credible authority and
41:41
Speaker 2: you tell people what to do, and if you're really good,
41:46
Speaker 2: you tap into why they should do it. Now, mind you,
41:50
Speaker 2: it's not their why, it's your why, but it's a
41:52
Speaker 2: why being offered. What's left out is the how. Yeah,
41:56
Speaker 2: And if you were an educator in any other domain
42:02
Speaker 2: in life, you were a golf coach and you didn't
42:06
Speaker 2: have the how or a golf instructor is a better
42:08
Speaker 2: way of saying it. Or maybe you were working as
42:12
Speaker 2: an instructor in medical school and you were teaching somebody surgery.
42:16
Speaker 2: You told them what to do, you told them to
42:18
Speaker 2: grind and just cut harder, dig deeper, but you didn't
42:21
Speaker 2: really get to the how. You would send people out
42:25
Speaker 2: to murder a lot of individuals over the course of
42:28
Speaker 2: their career, and that medical school wouldn't be around very long.
42:32
Speaker 2: But in self help, for some reason, the how is
42:36
Speaker 2: left out. And if you're going to tell people what
42:38
Speaker 2: to do, you need to have viable, executable strategies on how,
42:43
Speaker 2: or you have to have the skill sets to extract
42:48
Speaker 2: the how from that particular individual. But when you take
42:53
Speaker 2: a look at James Petraska, who's one of the founders
42:57
Speaker 2: of the trans theoretical model of change, one of the
43:00
Speaker 2: things that he says, the reason why people don't get
43:02
Speaker 2: started is because they really do not know what to do.
43:06
Speaker 2: What I think he's getting at when you read how
43:08
Speaker 2: he explains it, they don't know how to do it.
43:12
Speaker 2: I know what to do, I don't know how to
43:13
Speaker 2: do it. And that's a problem that's not executable, that's
43:17
Speaker 2: not strategic.
43:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of when somebody he's worried, and
43:23
Speaker 1: then some well meaning person says to the worried person,
43:27
Speaker 1: don't worry.
43:29
Speaker 2: I didn't consider that yet. Wow, genius never occurred to
43:32
Speaker 2: me not to worry. Yeah, yeah, you're coaching.
43:38
Speaker 1: I might don't worry. Ah fuck, thank god you came along.
43:41
Speaker 1: I'm better.
43:44
Speaker 2: You know. It's interesting. It's everything that because we've all
43:48
Speaker 2: done stuff like that. Everything we're saying to the person, Yes,
43:54
Speaker 2: don't you think they've said the same things to themselves
43:58
Speaker 2: with greater intent, the greater judgment, greater shame. It's it's
44:04
Speaker 2: it's not helpful. It might be well meaning, but it's
44:08
Speaker 2: not helpful at the end of the day.
44:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it all right. A man that is
44:14
Speaker 1: often quoted by you, Charles Bokowski, This is just two words.
44:20
Speaker 1: Don't try. Don't try explain that. That seems like counterintuitive advice.
44:29
Speaker 2: I don't quote Bukowski because I'm advocating anybody model him.
44:37
Speaker 2: I am attracted to highly flawed people, and that's that's
44:41
Speaker 2: again a different conversation out of context. And Bukowski and
44:44
Speaker 2: I had very similar beginnings in our childhood, so I
44:49
Speaker 2: kind of resonate I don't take that.
44:54
Speaker 1: As a that's probably that's Bobby's disclaimer. Everyone. Yeah, that's it,
45:00
Speaker 1: bukowski disclaimer.
45:02
Speaker 2: And when you talk about don't try, he's so believed
45:05
Speaker 2: in that. It is the epiteph on his tombstone. I
45:09
Speaker 2: don't think he meant it as this nihilistic resignation of
45:13
Speaker 2: what's the point of doing anything. We're all going to
45:16
Speaker 2: end up gone anyway. I think it was. It was
45:19
Speaker 2: just the opposite. Bukowski, in his later years, wrote several
45:24
Speaker 2: novels and hundreds of essays and poems. The guy was
45:28
Speaker 2: rather prolific. You don't produce that body of work by
45:31
Speaker 2: not trying. Bukowski's thing was, if you want to be
45:36
Speaker 2: a writer for any other reason, then you cannot help
45:40
Speaker 2: but to write. You're doing it for the wrong reasons.
45:42
Speaker 2: Because the quintessential defining characteristic of a writer is not
45:49
Speaker 2: who is most financially successful, who's written, it's someone who
45:53
Speaker 2: writes continually, someone who produces a body of work. Don't
45:59
Speaker 2: try to be a writer. Be a writer. Sit down
46:02
Speaker 2: and get to the business of writing. And if there's
46:05
Speaker 2: not something that is so deeply emotionally resonant with you
46:11
Speaker 2: where you cannot not do the work. You're in it
46:16
Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons. You're either doing it because you're
46:19
Speaker 2: looking for fame, you're looking for recognition, maybe you're doing
46:23
Speaker 2: it because you want to be admired by the opposite sex,
46:26
Speaker 2: the same sex, whatever, you're doing it for all the
46:30
Speaker 2: wrong reasons, and you're not going to be telling the truth.
46:36
Speaker 2: And in art, you've got to be truthful because it's
46:39
Speaker 2: about resonating with raw expression. So I think that's what
46:45
Speaker 2: he meant. If you want to be if you want
46:47
Speaker 2: to be anything, if you want to be fit, don't
46:50
Speaker 2: go out and try to be fit, engage in the behaviors,
46:54
Speaker 2: don't try to produce an outcome. That was one of
46:57
Speaker 2: the things I noticed when I was struggling with burnout
47:00
Speaker 2: is I was trying very horrid and I didn't understand why.
47:06
Speaker 2: I don't go out and step in front of an
47:08
Speaker 2: audience and I'm going to try to motivate them. I'm
47:11
Speaker 2: going to try. But I was doing these things. I
47:14
Speaker 2: was like, where is this coming from? And that's when
47:17
Speaker 2: I was one of the indicators of burnout. There's a
47:20
Speaker 2: difference between trying and being, and I think that's what Pokowski.
47:23
Speaker 3: Was talking about there's a very famous AFL coach over
47:28
Speaker 3: here who you wouldn't know of, but his name's John
47:30
Speaker 3: Kennedy and he was one of the most famous inspirational
47:35
Speaker 3: You know, in NFL and NBA, there's quite a few
47:39
Speaker 3: renowned inspirational coaches who.
47:42
Speaker 1: Were allegedly great leaders of men and all that. So
47:45
Speaker 1: John Kennedy was that in Australia and he was renowned
47:50
Speaker 1: for his rousing, kind of inspiring speeches to get athletes
47:56
Speaker 1: to do shit, superhuman shit, right. And it's not impressed
48:00
Speaker 1: of now, but in the sixties, there's this image of
48:03
Speaker 1: him is out. I think it's on the mcg the
48:06
Speaker 1: biggest cricket stadium in the world football austray and Reels
48:09
Speaker 1: Football Stadium, one hundred and something thousand people, and he's
48:13
Speaker 1: screaming in his players and he says, don't think do,
48:17
Speaker 1: don't think do. And that's not kind of a revelation now,
48:22
Speaker 1: but you know, this is like fifty sixty years ago
48:26
Speaker 1: he was he was basically, you know, pointing towards this
48:31
Speaker 1: kind of theme a little bit. I think, so all right,
48:34
Speaker 1: last one, you're ready go on.
48:38
Speaker 2: Last week had a pretty inspiring Johan Kennedy as well.
48:40
Speaker 2: I think it's something in the name.
48:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Ours didn't have an f to my knowledge.
48:47
Speaker 1: Well there's something all right. Last one, let's talk about
48:52
Speaker 1: the idea of optimizing our strengths versus focusing on our
48:59
Speaker 1: weakness is.
49:01
Speaker 2: I think as we're growing up, I know in my
49:06
Speaker 2: experience personally, it was a focus on here are your weaknesses,
49:11
Speaker 2: and you've got to sort yourself out. And if your
49:14
Speaker 2: weaknesses are like character flaws, like I've got this weakness,
49:18
Speaker 2: well what is it while I tend to embezzle a lot. Well,
49:21
Speaker 2: I think you need to probably work on that.
49:24
Speaker 1: But oh that is so good, Yeah that in brizzling.
49:28
Speaker 1: You've got to do something about that.
49:29
Speaker 2: Man, if your weakness is you know, I'm really amazing
49:37
Speaker 2: as a footballer, but I'm horrible at spreadsheets, you might
49:42
Speaker 2: not want to spend too much time on that. I
49:44
Speaker 2: think there's a lot more value and there's also a
49:47
Speaker 2: lot more creativity. There's a lot more innovation and possibility
49:53
Speaker 2: when you identify what am I quintessentially good at and
49:58
Speaker 2: build from there down in your strengths. Because if you
50:03
Speaker 2: take a look at I know I've talked about this
50:05
Speaker 2: or I think I've talked about this on the show
50:06
Speaker 2: because I talk about a lot doctor Martin Seligman. He's
50:10
Speaker 2: kind of like the father of positive psychology. He's done
50:14
Speaker 2: a lot of great work. And when you look at
50:17
Speaker 2: his frame and values in Action, so you could go
50:21
Speaker 2: to like VIIa dot Org, I think it is. Anyway,
50:23
Speaker 2: if you type in values in Action, it'll come up
50:27
Speaker 2: and you can take a version of this for free.
50:30
Speaker 2: It's a survey that helps you identify your values, and
50:33
Speaker 2: he believes that when you act on those values, which
50:36
Speaker 2: is my definition of authenticity, it shows up as a
50:40
Speaker 2: signature strength that what you're really strong at innately is
50:44
Speaker 2: usually aligned with what's most meaningful to you. So I
50:49
Speaker 2: think when you doubled down on that, not only are
50:52
Speaker 2: you leveraging the very best in you, but you're you're
50:58
Speaker 2: also doing something thing that gives you a sense of resilience.
51:02
Speaker 2: It gives you a sense of optimism, it gives you
51:05
Speaker 2: a sense of purpose in the face of challenge. It
51:09
Speaker 2: kind of does a lot. Because so here's another Gallop book,
51:13
Speaker 2: First Break All the Rules. This is by Buckingham and Kaufman.
51:17
Speaker 2: They wrote that, and I think they interviewed something like
51:21
Speaker 2: eighty six thousand or an incredibly large base of highly
51:25
Speaker 2: effective managers, and they were identifying what separates an average
51:30
Speaker 2: leader from an exceptional leader. And one of the qualities
51:32
Speaker 2: was is that they identify and develop people's strengths. Because
51:37
Speaker 2: if you have people on your team and they're innately
51:40
Speaker 2: weak at something, and you spend a ton of time
51:42
Speaker 2: in resources helping them elevate their strengths, they go from
51:47
Speaker 2: they go from weakness to average. At the same time,
51:52
Speaker 2: the people who have marked strengths and those are being neglected,
51:55
Speaker 2: they're being ignored. That's where you should be spending the
51:58
Speaker 2: most of time with those people. I'm focused on, how
52:01
Speaker 2: do they expand their strengths their strengths start to decline
52:04
Speaker 2: to average. So now you've built a team of average performers. Yes,
52:10
Speaker 2: and it's counterintuitive, but it shows up in their data.
52:14
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense. What are your signature strengths?
52:18
Speaker 2: Spend most of the time there.
52:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always think, you know, even in my tiny
52:26
Speaker 1: little business now with Melissa and Tiff does a bit
52:28
Speaker 1: with us as well, and I have another guy called
52:32
Speaker 1: Greg who does a bit. But I always think based
52:36
Speaker 1: on what you know, based on what we need to
52:39
Speaker 1: do be create and get done. What's the best use
52:43
Speaker 1: of me, like in this little business, what's the best
52:47
Speaker 1: use of me? What's the optimal use of me and
52:49
Speaker 1: my talent, my skills, my knowledge. What's the optimal use
52:53
Speaker 1: of Melissa? What's the optimal use of Tiff? How do
52:56
Speaker 1: we best exploit what each of us are good at?
53:00
Speaker 1: And as you said, you know me me going and
53:04
Speaker 1: rebuilding our website not a good use of me at all.
53:07
Speaker 1: Me uploading the file from this and then publishing it
53:10
Speaker 1: wherever the fuck it goes, and then doing I don't know,
53:14
Speaker 1: like I don't know how to turn this this. All
53:17
Speaker 1: I know is how to press this zoom link and
53:19
Speaker 1: get you and then talk to you and then press
53:22
Speaker 1: end call that's my and come up with a title
53:25
Speaker 1: and write a synopsis. But actually turning it into a
53:29
Speaker 1: thing that the world listens to that they can press
53:32
Speaker 1: on a button on their phone. And here's fucking Fatty
53:35
Speaker 1: Harps and Bobby Kapucco. I don't know how that happens,
53:38
Speaker 1: but I don't need to.
53:40
Speaker 2: Could you imagine as an experiment, Melessa, I think you
53:43
Speaker 2: need to get better at public speaking. I could probably
53:46
Speaker 2: be a little bit better at operations. For the next
53:48
Speaker 2: three months, we're going to swap. I'm going to run
53:51
Speaker 2: all the operations in the organization and you're going to
53:54
Speaker 2: do all the public speaking and all the podcasts, and
53:57
Speaker 2: we're going to come back three months from now. Just
53:59
Speaker 2: see how as.
54:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is a very good point, mate, I
54:04
Speaker 1: realize how much I've missed you. Hey, I've got to
54:07
Speaker 1: find mate. I've got a bunch of questions. Can we
54:09
Speaker 1: do another one very soon?
54:11
Speaker 2: Yeah? Sure. I just love hopping on here and chatting
54:14
Speaker 2: with the audience and riffing with you. It's great.
54:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're very good at it.
54:18
Speaker 2: All right.
54:19
Speaker 1: Tell people where they can find you and connect with
54:21
Speaker 1: you and listen to you.
54:24
Speaker 2: Well, you could listen to the self help and to
54:26
Speaker 2: do it. That's found in most places where you find podcasts,
54:32
Speaker 2: if that's helpful. Mostly I'm on LinkedIn. I'm staying away
54:37
Speaker 2: from other social media platforms. But I kind of like
54:40
Speaker 2: the dialogue. I like the conversation. I dig it, so
54:42
Speaker 2: you can find me there.
54:44
Speaker 1: Perfect. All right, mate, we'll say goodbye fare but once
54:46
Speaker 1: again thanks for coming on the show. Appreciate you. What
54:50
Speaker 1: is it? So it's eight twenty eight Monday. More No,
54:54
Speaker 1: what is it Sunday morning?
54:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's too yeah out here in uh in
55:01
Speaker 2: uh San Diego.
55:03
Speaker 1: Allry, buddy, we'll talk, so see you man.
55:05
Speaker 2: Cheers Bye,