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Serial Special: The Adnan Syed Case · Multiple Nerdgasm

0:00
[Music] welcome to multiple
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nerdgasm your destination for all things
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nerdy this episode of multiple nerdgasm is brought to you by mail kimp male
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kimp you know I use mail chimp oh yeah I do too actually no I I don't I've never
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heard of it oh you don't I mean we're not really sponsored by them so I so
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[ __ ] I don't want to give them too much credit but I do use
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them what is it yeah I didn't know what it was either it's for M if you know if
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you want to send out newsletters you can collect people's email addresses and
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then and Matt do you want to send out newsletters well I have a newsletter
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sign up on my um music site so that people who want to know when I'm making
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realize I could sign up to a newsletter I'll sign up to my newsletter and I
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will why don't you let the listeners know where they can sign up go to
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brainfit and uh actually you know what I've just realized I since I redid the website I
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have no idea if that sign up form is still on the website so listen fail
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MailChimp yeah fail yeah well well really by the time they go and see it oh
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yeah it would have been it fixed that's true so so yeah go to brained tocom sign
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up if you're interested in my music if you're not interested in my music that's
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fine you know it's not really got anything to do with this podcast so I
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mean it's quite reasonable well I mean you say that but Luke and I have a
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website too you're not the only one with the website oh that's true in fact if
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you would like to see my face on Luke's naked body just go to D naked.com and
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sign up to the mailing list to clarify it's my face superimposed on Luke's
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naked body it's not my face like pressed up against
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it no I phot for that you have to email
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directly um info@ podcast. something yeah if you send a suitably runchy
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Snapchat to Luke at [ __ ] 4 oh yeah Snapchat uh he might send back uh
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something a little erotic for you on there yeah you might see a little Sasquatch penis
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pen that doesn't help me though just sending erotica doesn't help me get
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erotica probably not D multiple
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nasm.com well this is our serial uh
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episode we'd like to talk about
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Cal great music yeah great music well
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yeah except it seemed a little out of place at times I thought yeah but it was
2:36
also used at such a great leite Motif to kind of when you heard that them coming
2:41
back in you know yeah I just thought the tone of it was a bit strange at first
2:45
sure yeah there was an episode of something where they interviewed the guy
2:50
who wrote all the music for serial right oh he's he's one of The Producers I
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think wasn't he yeah I think everyone who works on it is kind of considered a
2:58
producer right like how we're
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serial when they had released the first and second episode and I listened to
4:04
them both back to back and was instantly hooked with this True Crime Story uh
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then had to wait a week till the second episode sorry the third episode came out
4:15
and then had to listen to these one a week for the next 12 weeks and it was
4:20
Agony this was the first podcast that I've ever listened to where I was
4:25
sitting there on a Thursday night and at around 9:25 I just start refreshing my
4:30
podcast app and the second that it came out right everything had go off TV off
4:36
lights off that's me done for the night I'm listening to serial yeah such a
4:41
weird phenomenon and then the second that the podcast was ended and you know
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and this is not coming out in real time like a television show this is the second I'd
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finished listening to it I'd be looking for the hashtag on Twitter what's people
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saying about it yeah you know and it's such a phenomenon and I've never I've never
5:04
experienced that before with anything little of
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podcast hm well I um I was lucky enough that it was all out before I started
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listening um and I I don't listen to podcasts as much as I'd like to because
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generally I catch the train to work and I read or at the moment I'm playing
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games on my 3DS like I don't know podcasts were very good um for driving
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because because you can listen to it and you don't have to you you just drive and
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listen to it so um but on on certain days when Jenner and I both work in the
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same area she travels around for work so when we're in the same area we'll drive
5:40
in together and we were listening to it on those days so um we got through it
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fairly quickly cuz that happens often enough that we you know kind of got
5:48
through them all but yeah so I can imagine how having to wait you know a
5:54
week uh would be frustrating it's frustrating but at the same time it was
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thrilling and I really imagine what the experience would be like if you didn't
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have that anticipation well that's yeah that's one
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thing I I wanted to touch on with it in general but you you just kind of binge
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listen to all of it Luke is that right yeah I finished all in a week yeah in
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fact I listen to the last three four episodes today just before we recorded
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this so I I think with I'm listening to it like that I missed a lot of it right
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cuz I just churn through it so quickly I think you'll probably good chunks of it
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which I just wasn't quite paying attention to where if yes whereas not
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only did I pay attention I often listened back a second time straight
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away and then I listened to three other separate podcasts who would do a
6:45
commentary after each week's episode came out well also after every episode
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we would discuss the episode for quite a while Jenner and I so um that also
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helped you know solidify like I I maybe remembered something important that I
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well I thought was important she remember something she thought was
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important and we discuss it and then we both be like yes all right how about we
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actually explain what it is sure why not
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go for it um so what serial is is it's actually what is
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it sorry I had the website and I just lost it well you listen to it so you
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know what it is well in your own words Luke I wanted to get names right sure
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it's it's um Ser is a podcast that actually goes back and of goes through a
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murder that happened in 1999 back in Baltimore of hey Min Lee and actually
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looks at anad s who was actually
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um found guilty of her murder yes and he's still in jail today does how long
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is he in jail for does anyone know I believe he's in like for life life yeah
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yeah which means that he he might eventually get out you know if he shows
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remorse but as as a as it happens he's claiming he's innocent so he will never
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get out yeah that's right which that's what a horrible thing
8:08
if he actually is innocent to cuz I I can understand you don't want to sort of
8:14
say yes I did it just so you can get out of jail you want your name to be cleared
8:18
you want to be innocent that's um exactly right that's basically what the
8:21
the West Memphis 3 had to do in order to out except they went with it they W [ __ ]
8:25
it fine I did it I go to jail because if they didn't Daman Eckles was going to be
8:31
executed like like within the next like month or something like that and the
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lawyer said they will kill him if you don't just say all right fine we did it
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so yeah wow so that was a bit [ __ ] but
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yeah so he um he's always maintained that he was innocent and he's got some
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uh quite a number of supporters uh who've been helping him out but uh it
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wasn't going anywhere until um they contacted Sarah kig am I
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saying his same yeah you are I
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believe um Sarah kanig is a reporter who
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at some point had investigated adnan's attorney for uh some Financial issues
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and found that she'd been negligent in in a few ways um and so adnan's friends
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contacted her and said look you were investigating his attorney we feel that
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she mishandled the case would you consider looking into the murder and she
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did and found it very interesting and then made the
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podcast that's right so uh the the point of the podcast
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I guess the premise is that uh it's called serial but even though it's about
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a murder it's not about a serial killer it's about serial refers to the format
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um and that means they they're telling a story um an episode at a time like week
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by week and so every week you get a small piece of the
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story and that's kind of one of the things that I I wanted to to bring up at
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first um because it's worth bearing that in mind when you listen to the podcast
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because um people have said um it was great that she didn't really have an
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agenda she wasn't for a nan or against a nan she kind of kept her open mind that
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kind of thing but what some people seem to forget is she does have an agenda
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because the goal of the podcast is not to solve his murder necessarily it's to
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be entertaining and yeah it's a it actually says it's a story told weekly
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yeah so um and you know if you look online about the case and uh you know
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because of the podcast uh a lot of um additional information is now online
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more people are interested in the story and all that kind of stuff so a lot more
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investigation has happened which is great but um it also has revealed that
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they left a lot out yeah but that she was never keeping that a secret no all the
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interviews that she did and and on the website it always said this is not a
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journalistic Endeavor yeah exactly and she's saying we are purposely
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withholding information for dramatic effect we are not discussing things that
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have no relevance to the story we're telling Y and and I think if people
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don't understand that then um that's kind of on them oh yeah no I agree I
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just thought it was worth mentioning because I have you know people I mean
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listen to the podcast and it is very entertaining it's great but I don't
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think you can safely assume that you fully understand no but I don't think
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that's necessarily different from any other True Crime probably true yeah
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probably right I mean you know you you look at one of the classics In Cold
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Blood by trim and capot right and you read that and you don't know anything
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more about that case other than Truman capot wanted to [ __ ] that one
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dude you know what I mean so I'm not saying that Sarah kaning wanted to [ __ ]
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Adnan I'm just saying it's all subjective sure yeah well the other
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thing like about her having No Agenda she actually she actually doesn't know
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what what's going to come out with all of this she's she's just learning the
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story as she goes along as well and even up to the last episode she was going we
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only found about this out about last week yeah that's right and that's really
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interesting because you you know that she's done a Year's worth of
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Investigation prior to this and that they've kind of mapped out where they
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want the 12 episodes to go but of course they're coming out week to week she
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didn't make them all and then release them right so as the episode coming out
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people are calling up going no no no no I was there that's not what happened or
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people were going actually I saw something different and and I know about
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that or I can corroborate that and that kind of made it really interesting yeah
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yeah something else I find interesting actually is that the person who um who
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first contacted Sarah to do the podcast
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I forgotten her name um oh um Ria yeah
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Ria yeah um she is not very happy with
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the podcast no she has her own blog and has had for some time yeah and she said
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that she's quite she's dis not unhappy because it I mean it has helped him get
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an appeal and all this other stuff and people are interested in that kind of
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thing but she wasn't really that happy with how not definitive it was in proving his
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innocence yes especially seeing as Ria's blog is skewed heavily into ad is
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innocent and this is simply an exploration of the facts yeah yeah and I
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mean I mean do you guys I mean do you have an opinion on whether you do you
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think he did it Luke you've just listened to this all in a go what what
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do you feel having just come off
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it I'm sort of leaning towards yes okay mhm oh no get everyone's opinion first
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but yeah I've got my reason why I think it's a bit sus but Matt what did you
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think what do you think in I think I think at this point it's he's the only
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real candidate so I mean I I think it's
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possible that he didn't but I find it very unlikely so I think I think at this
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point yeah I do think he did yeah I think there was somebody in one episode
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who said that if he didn't do it and he is innocent he is the unluckiest man in
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the universe because all of these facts have all of these coincidences have
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lined up to point at him yeah you know it just so happens that on the day a man
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has conspired to murder your ex-girlfriend you unknowingly loan him
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your car and your cell phone and then don't create an alibi for yourself yeah
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and then this is the thing that really got me with the phone he'd only had the
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phone for 2 days not only that remember back to 1999 would you even let someone
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hold your phone no were so new maybe I
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can day old phone like now I wouldn't I probably would lo my phone to someone if
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they had a problem yeah there there are a bunch of things that are suspicious
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about his account of the day because there's a there's that he gave Jay who
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admittedly he doesn't know that well and also he knows he's a bit of a dick like
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so he lends him his his brand new phone
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in in 99 uh and his car because he it's
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Jay's girlfriend who is adan's friend's birthday and Adnan is for some reason
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really concerned with the fact that Jay hasn't got her present yeah and the
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whole point of this is he he's actively seeking out you know sending Jay on a
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mission to get her it's just it's just it's very strange to
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me yeah well I think it is very strange which is why it's made such an
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interesting story because it's while there's no specific evidence that kind
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of proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ADN is the killer there's kind of
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nothing that he himself or his lawyer um
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Christina Gutierrez was able to say to prove that he wasn't yeah and there were
16:09
two trials the first one was a mistrial because Christina went a bit nuts and
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challenged the judge and then the whole thing got thrown out they then had a
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second trial which she lost and some people have uh speculated that she lost
16:24
because of her failing health and you know and that and had she been a bit
16:28
more switched on she Poss could have argued better yeah well I don't know if
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you they show you show you you hear audio of her during the trial sounds
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like a [ __ ] idiot yeah it's it's painful like she
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makes she just drags on and her just the tone of her voice is just monotonous and
16:48
boring and like I just I can't imagine having to sit there for days and days
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and listen to her drag out facts out of
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people is that maybe what court is like like we've really only seen on the
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television true yeah like where they it's the five minutes but trials go on
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for weeks that's what you have to expect and I wonder too I mean people have said
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uh a lot of people said you know we're saying oh there wasn't enough enough to
17:15
prove that he was innocent and I mean the point I point out the you're not
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supposed to have to do that you're supposed to prove guilt so that's right
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um and a lot of people are saying I can't believe they convicted him with
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all this evidence um and just I feel it's worth mentioning that they didn't
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have the podcast the jury they
17:34
had uh Gutierrez and and the prosecutor and clearly the prosecution made a much
17:40
better case yeah that's right and in court that's what it's about it's about
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who makes the better case yeah I mean and and little things like the fact that
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there's an episode where Sarah goes back and starts talking to some of the jury
17:50
members and I was ask him they're like no no no he definitely did it blah blah
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blah because why would he lie and then she's going well he had a plea deal and
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they were like oh we didn't know that yeah the other thing I find very weird
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about that is he was only ever charged J
18:06
the witness was only over charged with accessory after the fact yeah yes
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because he helped him bury her but not kill her but he
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knew that this was going to happen so yeah to
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me I think he convin Pro that he knew that that were happening no no he said
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yeah he convinced them that he thought it was a joke or that it was just you
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know he was just talking big I think that's I mean because I mean I can see
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that like if somebody you know like we've got melodramatic friends who might
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you know make stupid joke I [ __ ] [ __ ] kill him if he does that again
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like would I I'm going to kill someone you know I'm going to [ __ ] kill him
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yeah yeah but imagine if one of them came up to you and went he's my car he's
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my brand new phone I'm going to go kill her I'll be call you when I'm done right
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but he's he's then later didn't he come back later and say that that's not what
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happened like that's the other thing about Jay is that I mean his story
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changed so much and have you guys seen he's done an interview recently have you
19:08
guys seen that I did see no right he Jay gave an interview finally he wouldn't
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give them an interview on um serial he said no yeah he waited until somebody
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paid him for an interview exactly and so he's probably been paid very well to
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give this interview now and basically he
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has changed most of the story again and it now all happens they go and they bury
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the body closer to midnight that evening and the whole timing of everything is
19:33
out and basically what it means is all the evidence that they used to convict
19:38
Adan is nullified by the fact that he's now saying it all happened at different
19:43
times like completely different times and yeah but I mean one testimony to the
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next his story changed too I mean it was almost like the police were not feeding
19:55
him information necessarily but certainly stopping the tape and saying
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no no no no don't say that say this that doesn't help say what you said before
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about this or yeah that's what's so fascinating about it because it's like
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okay Jay said that that this happened but why would he lie but then he is
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lying clearly well here's the thing why clearly he is lying but then what
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clearly is lying as well it's [ __ ] maddening when you think about it like
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you stop and look you find a piece of information like that and you go oh
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Jay's clearly lying and then you go back and you're like well well he is but I
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mean still did it like yeah that's right I mean and they probably did it together
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yeah it's just it probably the cops probably busted Jay and said confess and
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he said no and they said well we need to put someone in prison so if you know all
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the facts say you just helped him do it rather than did it as well and we'll let
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you off yeah that's actually what I think happened yeah that's what I'm s
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looking towards because Jay just seems to cuz they well the police they just
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believed everything you said that's what they based their whole case on he knew
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where the car was he knew where ha's car was and nobody else knew that
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unless unless has been and this has been speculated unless the police had already
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found it and knew that it was there and told him uh no I I think that's I don't
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think they would have done that okay I mean fair enough well there's also the
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fact that her body was found under suspicious circumstances as well she was
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buried and then there dude came and said to the cops I found this body and they'd
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already been investigating him because he was a bit of a weirdo and then when
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they went back to find the body it really took them a while to see
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it and it wasn't like he tripped over it he he he just knew where it was yeah and
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they kind of tried to investigate that but that was a bit of a dead end so yeah
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cuz at first they said oh why would you go that far into the woods to pee but
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then they went there and oh it's not really that far I guess yeah you'd have
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to go that far pretty shy and there weren't a lot of trees and
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bushes so wasn't sh he was a Streaker yeah that's right yeah because I
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remember she said that they were there and she was like you know what this is
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where the body was and I'm looking back at the road and I think I would want to
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go further in if I was going to pee yeah because I can still see cars yeah that's
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right but how he saw the body when it was just a little TFT of hair poking out
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from the ground under a log yeah suspicious well that's the other thing
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people have speculated maybe you know somebody um like Adan has allegedly did
22:33
tell a few other people like I say allegedly like told you know
22:36
neighborhood kid or whatever it was told him about the body or he mentioned it to
22:41
a few people so maybe the word got around and yeah that's true I mean
22:44
there's so many possibilities it's just there's there's a lot of weird stuff
22:47
it's not just the changing of stories that points toward ad Nan being
22:51
potentially guilty it's things like he spoke to Hay on the phone every day
22:55
except when she died he stopped calling her even though her death wasn't
23:01
announced for another three weeks I can sort of have an idea about as well
23:06
because he she didn't have a mobile no but why did he suddenly stop calling her
23:11
house all of a sudden coincidentally on the day she went missing remember it was
23:15
they used to time their calls and do all this stuff so they wouldn't get caught
23:19
talking to each other yeah but they hadn't been dating for a while and she
23:22
had a new boyfriend since then too but I'm just it's not to me it's not
23:28
entirely crazy back then to not call like you would hear calling her parents
23:34
to go have you heard anything have you heard anything cuz that's who he would
23:37
have been calling yeah I suppose would not have been a helpful thing so to have
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he said he had her friends and he was speaking with them and so if she hadn't
23:46
been found or anything he would have found out yeah him calling her parents
23:51
not going to help I think the biggest piece of evidence for
23:56
adnam is just the fact that if he was guilty why would he leave himself open
24:02
to this kind of scrutiny true true although one thing I'll say there's well
24:07
there's a couple of things about him that are a bit suspicious but also they
24:14
can be explain because he only remembers things or he's only says that he
24:18
remembers things that other people have corroborated yeah that's right he he he
24:23
never has said anything that can't be corroborated and that's either because
24:28
because he's hiding things or it's for for you know nefarious reasons or it's
24:34
because he's been in jail for 15 years and he knows that it's [ __ ] pointless
24:39
saying anything that can't be corroborated But I either way it makes
24:43
him a bit difficult to to kind
24:47
of you know like I it makes it hard because it's like why can't you remember
24:51
anything else like you actually not remember or you just can't be bothered
24:55
mentioning it because you know that there's no point you know what I mean
24:57
cuz he he States in a letter to to Sarah at one point that he tried to keep it
25:03
all business and he he he think he's thought about it a lot and he knows what
25:06
will and won't help him you know what I mean and he's tried to be all kind of
25:10
professional about it and I'm like well in a way that's sort of detrimental
25:15
because now everyone's like thinks he's some kind of robot
25:19
like like like why can't you remember you know what I mean like it's it's
25:23
[ __ ] weird yeah well there was one thing that they said in the very first
25:27
episode like can you remember what you did 6 weeks ago and I actually thought
25:31
about it and I I don't have a clue like if you would ask me what I did 6 weeks ago
25:37
today I I don't I don't know no I don't think I do
25:42
either like off the top of my head no but I mean after being convicted of
25:48
murder and in jail for 15 years I probably would have thought about it a
25:51
bit harder yeah you'd work it out surely like I'm sure there was I mean well I
25:56
mean I mean like is was a high school student I think wasn't he and um so
26:01
maybe he a bit different but I mean I've got also I believe he was stoned most of
26:05
the time but like surely you could just open up your diary to that day and go oh
26:08
yeah okay I was here oh yeah I was stoned
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yeah do you have a diary get stoned yeah that's where I write down where I need
26:18
to be at different places yeah my calendar on my phone has all sorts of
26:21
stuff like I could look 6 weeks ago and I'm sure there's something that would
26:25
trigger a memory of of probably something like okay yeah yeah I visited
26:29
my nan in the morning and then you know I did this and I went to work and yeah I
26:34
don't know I don't think it is that hard to piece together what you were doing on
26:36
a certain day especially if it was a day where some cataclysmic event happened
26:41
yeah I know because he says that it wasn't a very important day but it it
26:44
but the cops were ringing him and he knew yeah that's the weird thing like to
26:49
me if the cops rang me yeah you might sort of Rec he can't even remember that
26:53
cuz it's not only that not only that the cops rang him if the cops rang him while
26:56
he was at someone else's house stoned and he freaked out about it and said
26:59
what am I going to tell them and he had to try and act like he was straight like
27:03
you'd remember that yeah well that wasn't even the cops that was a
27:06
mysterious other phone call that he oh that's right that that's right that's
27:10
right not only that we' forgot mention that the only reason they were looking
27:15
at him was because of an anonymous tip to the cops oh yeah that's also very
27:19
suspicious where the [ __ ] did that come from because she has a boyfriend it's
27:22
not like he is a most recent boyfriend I know they say that uh you know you
27:27
always look at the boyfriend first and it's usually him but she has a boyfriend
27:31
that they all but dismissed yeah I think it's because um I
27:37
remember he had like a very he had an alibi like he was very they knew exactly
27:43
where he was and he they'd only been dating for what two
27:47
weeks it's only very new so that's why I think they were very quick to pick up on
27:53
the ex-boyfriend exboyfriend yeah well I mean it makes
27:57
sense oh yeah the other thing is that the only person who mentions her moving
28:01
to California is a nun and anyone else who mentions it heard it from a nun yeah
28:08
so that's suspicious too yeah it's when they say like didn't you know she was missing and
28:13
he goes oh I just assumed she went back to California like she always said she
28:16
would yeah exactly and then everyone's like oh yeah ednan did tell me that she
28:20
said that yeah that's right and it's like well that's
28:24
suspicious so I know yeah and her dad's not even in California
28:29
apparently he's um right like it's since people have you know checked stuff out
28:34
and there's she couldn't have gone there her dad doesn't live there so I don't know
28:40
sure so that's
28:43
sus the whole thing is very sus but if you take it for what it is an
28:49
interesting story yeah oh yeah definitely and he's got an appeal um
28:54
that's happening now does he actually have an appeal now cuz I remember he it
28:58
he has an appeal based on uh two things
29:03
the first one is insufficient Council yeah and the second one is new evidence
29:09
in the Asia Alibi that was mentioned at the time and never brought in in court
29:15
oh and also I think are they DNA testing those bottles and [ __ ] perhaps and I
29:19
know that the Innocence Project which features in a at least a couple of
29:23
episodes are doing their own investigation and they think that they
29:27
have other suspects and they believe it's none of the people that we know
29:31
about they believe it's much more likely to be some serial killer passing through
29:37
yeah than one of these school kids so they're doing their own investigation
29:42
that was there was an episode where they talked about one in particular who had
29:45
gotten out about that time and he targeted young Asian girls and I was
29:48
like well I mean that seems pretty [ __ ] the only thing that why I think
29:52
it was probably more so someone she knew
29:54
over a random person is she wasn't raped
29:59
well no no I'm serious like if it had been more of a crime like that like cuz
30:05
the person they talking about had raped and murdered yeah all right you mean
30:09
specifically for that person yeah I thought you meant like if you were going
30:13
to kill a girl you'd Raper no no
30:19
but [ __ ] crimes so not condoning
30:25
that but no that's why I think yeah that person was just very farfetched while it
30:30
did sort of would have F lovely in with the story and everything yeah didn't
30:34
really match what he was doing no that's true too yeah that's
30:40
fair yeah so I don't know it's I mean I definitely didn't feel like there was
30:46
enough there to to prove his innocence at all I think really it was just all
30:52
very inconclusive yeah like it's interesting enough that like I think it's wor worth
30:58
listening to because I mean I'm sure this stuff happens quite a lot oh yeah
31:01
the other thing I want to mention too was a lot of people are this happens all
31:05
the time when stuff like this occurs people get really down on the the police
31:10
or whoever for the investigation that kind of stuff and like you know if the
31:13
podcast fan had all this information why couldn't they and that kind of thing but
31:16
you got to remember that if you're a a police officer or detective in a town
31:21
like that you've got a [ __ ] million things to do like you don't get to take
31:26
a year and investigate this murder you've got to solve this murder so you
31:30
can solve the other murder that happened you know you know later on you what I
31:34
mean absolutely and they felt very confident that well they had they had a
31:40
guy confess that he helped bury the body so it be like right cool let's get this
31:45
[ __ ] done and and filed and let's move on to this other [ __ ] that's ping
31:49
up my right exactly and and as the the professional kind of consultant they had
31:55
on the podcast at one point that Sarah can hired to kind of deconstruct the
32:00
case he said no actually they've made a perfectly good case because when you're a police
32:04
prosecutor all you have to do is build a case yeah yeah that's right and it was
32:09
obviously good enough because they found him guilty yeah yeah so because like you
32:14
said the the goal is not like I said you look at the podcast and you go ah I
32:18
really just don't know but I mean that's not good enough because if the jury
32:25
didn't get all that information maybe the prosecution did did make it look
32:29
pretty conclusive you know cuz they've got a you know reasonable doubt they're
32:33
supposed to to say not guilty we can't work it out but if I mean if you know
32:38
they they believed Jay they said Jay seemed pretty solid um there was a none wasn't saying
32:45
anything like which came back to his Council telling him not to like I
32:50
probably would have found him guilty yeah I mean because because like
32:55
even now I think maybe he probably was so yeah that's right even after
32:59
listening to him yeah and he's a Charming dude but like and and every
33:03
time he's actually talking you start going yeah this guy couldn't have done
33:07
it and then he stops talking and you listen to the facts and you're like well
33:10
he probably did yeah
33:16
yeah so yeah um I mean I recommend everyone listen to it if especially if
33:20
you're into True Crime even if you're not I think it's probably interesting
33:22
but Luke you weren't 100% sold on it mentioned it's not the type of thing
33:27
that I would normally listen to M um well that's the thing it's not the kind
33:31
of thing I wouldn't I would normally listen to either it's not that I didn't
33:34
enjoy it I I did find it interesting and I probably will listen to the second
33:38
episode the second series which is going to come out this year
33:42
mhm um just to see but um I don't I think it's also I'm not I didn't get
33:47
caught up in it as a lot of other people may have because it was a story to me
33:52
sure like that I knew she kept saying it and that's what I took from it it was a
33:56
story and that's where you had had the highs and the lows and I could feel that
34:00
happening yeah yeah yeah agreed yeah it was not a um an instest ongoing
34:06
investigation where here are all the facts and as soon as we've got an update
34:09
we'll let you know it was more it was a little bit of that towards the end but
34:14
mostly it was we're doing out the information to keep you hooked yep yeah
34:20
that's right it was like a Dan Brown novel yeah yeah yeah like was split it
34:24
up into unly keeping you on the hook yeah yeah and it worked well that's what they
34:30
do that's their job yeah yeah so do we know um I mean season
34:35
2 is confirmed and all that jazz but it's not going to be about Adar or any
34:39
or no I believe their plan is to find a new story and follow that in the same
34:45
way that they followed Nan and hay so possibly not even a murder it might be
34:49
something completely different could be H interesting I think it'll be local
34:54
it'll still be local to where they are I'm assuming can we talk about Le Park
34:58
oh yeah sure and the fact that everyone there is too dumb to know it's Le Park
35:03
not Lincoln Park cuz for ages I was like why is she saying leol Park and everyone
35:08
else that she interviews is saying Lincoln Park is that just how they
35:12
pronounced it didn't they address that at one point well they addressed that
35:16
they all say it wrong but I don't think they went into detail of why but there's
35:19
that happens here they've got a Suburban camera called um Manuka M the queen came
35:25
here called manica it's been manica ever since yeah the pronunciation it's spelled
35:31
different but it is manica my um I used
35:34
to live out in valaya yeah uh and my nan
35:38
came over and told everybody you know on the plane and people that she spoke to
35:43
that she was coming over to visit her daughter who lived in
35:46
wallia right and I was like oh wish it was called that yeah it does sound uh
35:50
does sound very Posh it's very yeah it's more British yeah
35:55
notaa so yeah I think that's just a local thing that gets picked up over
35:59
time yeah yeah but I know what you mean is is the band park named after that
36:04
park that's what I wondered or whether people just have heard of Lincoln Park
36:08
the band so they just assume that's what this park is called
36:13
yep yeah cuz Lin and Park have been around since like the really late '90s
36:17
since before the murder they would have been at the height back then maybe they
36:22
did it holy [ __ ] we have just cracked this wide open chest up we're coming for
36:28
you mate that's a singer's name in case you
36:32
want oh
36:35
okay Chester Bennington season two of
36:40
cereal well he was a late addition to Lincoln Park too oh right was he I
36:45
didn't know that well they were originally called Hybrid Theory it was
36:47
just Johan and Mike shenoda ah oh there a urban myth about them that they were
36:53
constructed by no they weren't I've heard their um early demos yeah I think
36:57
that Urban Miss was started by Dave because for some reason he really hated
37:01
them yeah they said that they were put together by the record label because he
37:04
tried to tell me that once he's like nice Sony put them together and I'm like
37:08
no they didn't I've got their demos I've got shenoda and Han's demo when they
37:13
were called Hybrid Theory and their album was called fuse it's [ __ ] great
37:17
yeah yeah I don't know why that that became a thing oh because hater is going
37:21
to hate Matt true all right so we're
37:28
I think we covered all the points I had about serial really I mean there's not I
37:33
mean yeah we were never going to solve the murder actually I thought it was
37:35
quite funny um you sent that video around and I think a lot of people maybe
37:39
did think the last episode was going to reveal yeah that's what we should
37:43
quickly talk about before we go is the fact that they they don't solve this
37:47
crime no of course not no well yeah they they weren't going out to do it to solve
37:53
it I me dare say they would have [ __ ] done it if they could they would have
37:56
loved if they could have yeah but they they weren't able to yeah I think all
38:02
the early meetings would have being under the expectation that by the time
38:09
they've investigated this they would hopefully know who did it yeah yeah like
38:13
maybe the finale would be ad nme getting released or something yeah or admitting
38:18
it yeah right of course yeah yeah I think that's they they would have hoped
38:23
for that but yeah they probably knew that that was also not going to
38:28
happen yeah well I mean starting out I guess they wouldn't have but I mean like
38:34
she seems pretty from you know about halfway through you can see that she's thinking
38:39
I don't know if we're going to figure this out cuz yeah there's just not
38:42
enough information like everybody's it's pretty weird to me to
38:47
think that something like that can happen and it's like [ __ ] it could be
38:51
somebody completely different and no one knows some could be some guy wandering
38:55
around listening to that podcast thinking huh [ __ ] they're never going to
38:59
catch me yeah they got no idea I was paranoid this whole time they got no
39:03
idea I can't believe they convicted that guy and now they're looking into it
39:07
again and they still think he did it so the only thing we've still got to do
39:13
before we wrap up and Matt you've already played the jingle so I don't
39:18
know whether you want to play it again I always want to play
39:22
it well let's uh let's have it because I I want to hear Luke how would you have
39:27
killed hman Lee while the other brothers
39:31
are doing time listen up it's
39:35
crimes well see what he actually if he did do the strangle and then try to bury
39:41
he probably would have gotten a whale for that if he hadn't kept his mouth
39:44
shut mhm and also didn't get his slightly dodgy mate to help out yeah
39:51
right y like that's all it is he got his dodgy mate to help out and he's the one
39:55
who went oh yeah he did it I helped him well thing is his dodgy mate didn't
39:58
really do much to help him in the end he helped him dig a bit you would need
40:04
someone to help you dig though well he yeah I guess but they didn't apparently
40:10
they it was she wasn't buried very deeply or anything help you guys yeah
40:13
like think T him he would they would dug a bit deeper yeah well here's the other
40:18
thing that I always think about like I think that strangulation is kind of tied
40:25
into Crimes of Passion you know you get so someone you strangle them to death
40:29
yeah you think that that makes more sense but if I was going to
40:34
Premed murder somebody I would take some kind of weapon to the murder with me
40:41
yeah I would never think to myself uh be able to wing it on the day with my hands
40:46
I got these two weapons right here that's right I don't know um not having a
40:52
murder weapon means it's something less you have to hide or your fingerprints
40:56
are on her neck yeah and I mean you are the weapon I
41:01
mean it's a pretty brutal way to kill someone like I mean I mean not that
41:07
there's nice way to do it you up close you were looking at the like that is a
41:12
that's a very intense like fullon way to do it like it's true especially if you
41:17
it premeditated from a guy who by all accounts wasn't vient or you know it's
41:23
just yeah yeah it is very strange that
41:26
that's the the method yeah yeah but that's not to say he didn't do it
41:31
because um there is one guy has this what I believe to be a pretty solid
41:36
theory about it which is that he didn't intend to kill her he um she touched on
41:42
this in the show um maybe he hadn't really accepted that they broken up
41:46
until he got back to school and found out that she was with Don and then he
41:52
made a choice that day lied and said that his car had broken down because
41:56
that seems to be true like that seems to have happened he did ask for a lift and
42:01
so he gave Jay his car and said my car needs to not be here otherwise it's not
42:06
feasible that I need a lift so take the car and and then take my phone because
42:12
I'll need you to I need you call come yeah yeah so Jay takes the car goes off
42:19
that's that's why that happens right then he goes to the library right
42:22
because he knows that hae's going to drive past there on her way out of
42:25
school he goes down as she comes past Flags her down gets in and says look I
42:30
want to talk to you um you know I really feel like you know things are good blah
42:35
blah blah blah they drive off together he take makes a drive into Best Buy
42:39
where they spent time apparently getting on the car she says no they have an
42:43
argument and he strangles up but if that's the case and that makes so much
42:48
sense except that if that's the case if he had admitted that in trial instead of
42:54
pleading totally innocent yeah then he would have gotten a much more lenient
42:58
sentence because a crime of passion yeah a crime of passion gets consideration
43:03
that a premeditative murder does not yeah yeah yeah and also why why is he
43:09
still saying that he didn't do it like just [ __ ] give it
43:15
up like even if you admit you've done it now there's a chance you'll be you'll be
43:19
able to get out of jail yeah he's up for parole he can apply for parole oh
43:23
because the other thing is and this someone pointed this out on on Reddit I
43:26
think right you know they talk about the pay phone at Best Buy and how there's no
43:30
there was no pay phone outside or anything like that yeah in one of the
43:33
early episodes Adan says uh like this a quote Adan says he's questioning whether
43:40
the M like the whole thing could have happened within that time frame yep and
43:45
then he says what and then I walk into the Best Buy Lobby and call Jay and tell
43:50
him to come and meet me there like why did he say
43:54
Lobby yeah the phone was it it was so
43:59
weird that the only people who were they really brought up the phone they were
44:04
focusing on the phone but yeah Anan was didn't deny there was a phone or
44:08
anything well they kept saying oh there was no phone outside no phone outside
44:12
and and they did mention later way later that on the blueprints they found a
44:16
thing in the lobby that could be a phone but but in episode five I think it is at
44:19
Nan says Best Buy Lobby so I I mean the other thing to bear in mind with that though is we
44:26
don't know when he said that like like did did they edit that episode together
44:32
and not realize that they were that you know accidentally putting in something
44:36
that they referred to later on you know what I mean like because we don't know
44:40
what the order of the conversations between him and Sarah kanig was or what
44:43
got chopped up into what and you know you know what I I think but my my theory
44:48
is so here we go that he actually did it Jay helped him but it wasn't actually at
44:54
the Best Buy I think it was somewhere else mhm
44:58
yeah and then even what come out now we should we couldn't know during the Pod
45:03
uh the cereal um that he's now buried at night so I don't understand why the
45:08
their time frame of it all what the prosecutors went like he did it within
45:13
this 21 minutes and that just confuses me
45:18
m well that was only because he was seen at school later so they're saying if she
45:23
was murdered at a certain time of afternoon there was only a a small
45:28
window a half hour window where he could have left school murdered her buried her
45:32
and gotten back for footy practice and so this is where Jay's the one who said
45:37
like it was at the Best Buy so that's where that 21 maintenance comes into but
45:40
remember there was someone saying PA Hall pool hall yeah there was someone
45:45
also saying that they'd heard of someone getting murdered outside the library
45:50
yeah yeah which was across the road which would more so EV there would
45:56
have been a lot of people around but that to me would have fit more of a
45:59
crime of passion true but I think it also would have more likely been that
46:03
they misunderstood the that he got picked up by her outside the library
46:09
right rather than that's where he killed her and you know
46:12
what I got so invested in the story and what what really started irritating me
46:17
around episode 9 you know of 12 was that I'd probably never know yeah yeah I know
46:23
unless the actual murderer goes hey guys I did it it was me this happen we will
46:29
never know correct yeah yeah oh yeah that's the other thing Adan says at one point is
46:36
that you know the only only one who knows is uh is me oh and and and whoever did
46:44
it well with that there's only one last thing to say and that's that um there's
46:48
still a shrimp sale at the crap Crib That's all for this week thank you
46:55
for listening and we hope to enjoy the show if you enjoyed it then please
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