Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 181 - Why Every Photographer Needs a Vision

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181 - Why Every Photographer Needs a Vision · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:05
Casey Fatchett: Do you understand all of the rules yet?
0:08
I've been watching this game since I started going on
0:11
adventures with my crew, and and there are still some rules I
0:15
just don't get. Hey, welcome to the Nerdy Photographer Podcast.
0:20
I'm your host, Casey Fatchett, welcome to the show. If you're a
0:24
first-time listener, do you know what you need to do next? You
0:28
need to subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes. If
0:32
this is not your first time, and you have been here before, and
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you are already subscribed, you should leave a review. It really
0:41
helps a lot. Seriously, it makes a huge difference in people
0:45
discovering the show. Then, after you've done that, you're
0:49
free to join us for lots of interesting conversations and
0:53
adventures. Because you know what, in addition to giving you
0:57
interviews with amazing photographers from all corners
1:01
of the globe, which I don't know how a globe can have corners,
1:05
but anyway, and as well as providing lots of informative
1:09
and entertaining photography-related information,
1:12
I also go on adventures with the crew of the starship Fibonacci.
1:16
Right now, I am photographing the galactic cup of a sport
1:20
that, well, the literal translation of it is sports
1:24
ball. I feel like a lot of the nuance gets lost in translation.
1:28
It's certainly a complex game. On this episode of the podcast,
1:32
I speak with nature photographer David Headley, a former player
1:36
in the NFL who transitioned to the corporate boardroom and now
1:41
to behind the camera. We discuss how he made that journey happen
1:45
and how having a clear vision for his photographic work made
1:49
it easier. All that after the break. Ah, something is
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3:07
Hey! Before we dive into the show, I have something to tell
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you about. Something a little sneaky I've been doing over the
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four interview episodes from July 9th to August 20th. I will
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Links are in the show notes. Good luck, and let's get into
4:18
today's episode.
4:19
Hello, and welcome to the Nerdy Photographer Podcast. I'm your
4:23
host, Casey Fatchett, and with me today is photographer David
4:27
Henley. David, welcome to the show.
4:29
David Hendley: Wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me,
4:32
and I look forward to the talk.
4:34
Casey Fatchett: And before we get started, we're going to roll
4:35
the dicebreaker. It is a 15 best investment you've made in
4:43
photography, best like purchase investment you've made in in
4:47
your photography.
4:50
David Hendley: Best investment is probably probably my camera
4:59
bag. Because I've had sometimes I'm just I just got so much
5:06
stuff if I'm going on a long hike or something, but how much
5:10
I could carry in it and what I could carry, it's just
5:16
Casey Fatchett: and whether it's comfortable.
5:18
David Hendley: Yeah, and it's comfortable. It's extremely
5:20
comfortable. I
5:21
Casey Fatchett: think I think the two things that people don't
5:23
understand when it comes to photography are you got to
5:27
figure out what bag you can carry comfortably or roll. If
5:31
you need a rolling bag, I mean it saved me. Like I didn't get
5:35
one soon enough in my wedding photography career. I should
5:37
have had one sooner because I was carrying around like tons of
5:39
equipment with me all day long in a shoulder bag, which was
5:44
awful for me.
5:45
David Hendley: Yeah.
5:46
Casey Fatchett: But the other thing is buy the more expensive
5:48
tripod because you're eventually just gonna. It's the cheap one's
5:52
gonna break. You're gonna buy five cheap ones. Just buy the
5:55
more expensive, sturdier tripod at the beginning. But yeah, with
5:58
bags.
6:00
David Hendley: Yeah.
6:00
Casey Fatchett: I'm also addicted to bags. Yeah, no, I
6:02
Unknown: agree. Backpack is critical, but the bag, my
6:05
shoulders are always aching, and so this one is so comfortable.
6:09
So it's probably my best purchase.
6:13
Casey Fatchett: Do you have a shout out who the bag is from,
6:16
or is it?
6:22
David Hendley: I'll get it to you before the end of the show.
6:24
Casey Fatchett: Okay, all right, we'll get it at the end. All
6:28
right, so you have a very interesting path to photography.
6:33
For those who don't know, you were your former professional
6:37
athlete, played in the NFL. Yeah. Then you went to the
6:42
boardroom, and then off into the wilderness.
6:45
David Hendley: Right.
6:46
Casey Fatchett: What was the moment you realized that you
6:50
know the photography was going to be something that was super
6:52
important to you?
6:55
David Hendley: Well, I probably say must have been around 2002
7:01
1018 I started taking photography serious. It's never
7:10
really been anything that I that I was deeply into. You know, I
7:15
took a few photographs of the kids playing soccer and so on,
7:21
and then in the company I was with, I've been with them for
7:25
about 20-five years, and executive at that point, and a
7:34
little bit more stress in my life, and I found photography.
7:40
Photography to leave some of that stress. Never really took
7:48
it that serious until, yeah, probably around 2018 2019 But I
7:53
had already, you know, just fooling around, just taking
7:58
pictures here and there. But I'll tell you, it it's probably
8:04
already already have been there in my mindset because when I was
8:09
younger, when I was little, you know, I looked at two magazines:
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Sports Illustrated 100% of the time, National Geographic 100%
8:19
of the time, but the National Geographic, those pictures
8:27
always resonated with me, and I, I looked at the pictures
8:32
constantly in National Geographic and just imagined
8:37
being in those locations, not naturally imagining taking the
8:42
photographs, but just being there. So I had those images
8:46
always, always in my mind. So when I started taking nature
8:53
photography, or started being involved in nature photography,
8:57
you know those those images still resonated with me. They
9:02
were always in my mind from back when I was, you know, 789, year
9:07
years old. I had looked at them so much over and over and over
9:12
again, and just imagined myself being there. When I started
9:19
taking photographs, that's what I was thinking about. I was
9:21
thinking about those images putting myself on that location.
9:24
Casey Fatchett: I mean, I grew up doing the same, exact same
9:26
two magazines too. Like it was, I've still got a box full of the
9:31
National Geographic's that like meant the most to me, and I've
9:35
still got some Sports Illustrateds in there. And it's
9:37
you know, it's funny having through this show, I've met a
9:42
couple of photographers who have taken some of those photos that
9:47
you know I saw as a kid, and was like,
9:50
David Hendley: Oh wow!
9:51
Casey Fatchett: That inspired me, and it's just sort of like,
9:54
"Oh, this is this is pretty incredible. And the yeah, it. It
10:00
wasn't something that I was like, oh, this is something I
10:02
want to do. I want like even when I was a kid. So I
10:06
completely get where you're coming from. It was something I
10:09
did for fun when I was a teenager, but it was not like a
10:13
career for me at that point. So it's like that. I mean, but for
10:17
you, I guess what I'm saying is like, was it sort of like a You
10:23
started out like, oh, I'm going to take pictures, like snapshots
10:26
of things, whatever. But then when you decided, like, hey, I
10:27
want to, I'm going to take this a little bit more seriously. Was
10:31
that sort of a light bulb moment, or was it sort of like
10:33
a, huh, like I'm going to examine this for a while?
10:37
David Hendley: No, that's with me. If I dive into something, or
10:40
if I want to do something, I'm going 100 in. I'm 100 focused in
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it, so it was more of this is what I want to do. So I got to,
10:53
I have to figure it out. And prior to work every morning, I
10:59
was leaving the house maybe 4:30 every morning, going to the.
11:02
This is when I was living in California because I moved
11:04
around so much with my with with my job. So my last place was in
11:11
before where I live now was in California. So I would go to the
11:17
ocean, you know, 5o'clock in the morning. I'd spend an hour
11:20
there, learning how to understand the speed of the
11:27
camera. All these different things, just taking 1000s and
11:30
1000s of shots and looking and trying to understand. Because I
11:35
figured out, okay, this is what really relaxes me. This is what
11:42
how. Helps me focus, so I was doing that before work, after
11:47
work, but there was really no deciding moment of okay, I'm
11:54
going to stop working at this job, and I'm only going to be a
11:57
photographer. There was there was no there was I wasn't, I
12:01
wasn't thinking that far ahead yet. Yeah, it's just something
12:07
that okay, if I'm if I'm going to do this, then I want to be
12:09
very good at it. I, I, that's one thing that was in my mind. I
12:14
wasn't, I was thinking about selling anything. I wasn't
12:16
thinking about like any of that. I just said, okay, I want to be
12:19
a photographer. I want to be very good. I'm also going to
12:21
keep working.
12:23
Casey Fatchett: It's interesting when you bring that up, and
12:24
being a former professional athlete, because I'm curious.
12:27
Like it's sort of a athletic. I guess people who perform at a
12:30
very high level practice, practice, practice. Like make
12:35
and and I had a street photographer named Ryan Fair,
12:40
who's actually the Cleveland Guardians? He's on their
12:43
strength and conditioning staff, and he talked about like I set
12:48
out to do this much like it is like to practice like it was you
12:53
know I'm preparing as an athlete. I got to get my reps
12:58
in. I know I've got to get my reps in every day just get
13:01
better, and I'm gonna like yeah. And approaching it from that
13:04
mindset,
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David Hendley: 100 percent. That's exactly. I understand
13:08
exactly what he's saying because that's exactly what I did. I
13:12
approached it as if you know, not as if I was trying out 14,
13:16
but as more of you know, um, um,
13:18
Casey Fatchett: you get from an
13:19
David Hendley: athletic standpoint. Yeah, I'm. I'm going
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to. I want to be very good at this, so I'm going to practice
13:24
and practice and practice, and nothing's going to get in my
13:26
way. Nothing's going to distract me from it. This is what I want
13:29
to do. Yeah, you're going to
13:29
Casey Fatchett: get your reps in. I mean, I mean, which kind
13:33
of brings me to that next question. You also were like,
13:37
you're an athlete and you're an executive, and both of those are
13:40
sort of high stakes, results-driven environments. Did
13:45
those disciplines, like the mental toughness, strategy,
13:49
leadership, show up in how you approached photography when you
13:53
started out? And you're like, I think
13:56
David Hendley: I think it was more the discipline. If you
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wanted to be very good at it, or if you want to get better. I
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mean, I'm not a very technical photographer, but I wanted to be
14:10
able to have vision and see things. So it was more the
14:16
discipline of every day trying to get better, and then even
14:26
when I'm not out shooting, out in the field shooting, or
14:29
practicing shooting around the house to try to understand the
14:34
camera better, try to understand light composition, just just
14:42
really, and when you have the that type of passion for
14:44
something, it's it's it's pretty easy. I mean, for me, it is. You
14:47
know, if I'm passionate about this, this is what I want to do.
14:49
Then guess what? I'm thinking about it 24/7
14:54
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, you're putting in the work to, and I
14:57
think is the way of is like you're saying. It's not like.
15:00
I'm trying out for a team, but it's very much the I'm going to
15:03
get my reps in, and I'm going to because if you don't know
15:08
football or whatever the jugs machine, like you're just
15:11
getting in there, I'm going to catch the ball. I'm just going
15:12
to keep. This is just going to make me better at seeing the
15:16
ball. Like I'm just going to get that muscle memory in there.
15:19
Whether and those things like you know, use your camera for 15
15:21
minutes a day, like just get used to going through the menus,
15:25
get used to like the buttons, changing things like changing
15:28
your aperture, changing your you know your shutter speed and the
15:33
ISO and and those things, and just getting used to the camera,
15:36
the the the tool itself, so that it just becomes an extension of
15:40
you, so that when you're sitting there looking at something and
15:42
go, "Oh, I know what I want, and you can change all those
15:44
settings without going, "I need to stop, and I need to look at
15:47
the camera because you might not have a lot of time to capture
15:51
the vision that you have. So you know,
15:53
David Hendley: absolutely. I mean, I can remember. I mean,
15:55
there were times I was just, I mean, I was so in fact prepared
15:58
because I didn't understand the camera, so I needed to work. I
16:00
need to understand the. I figured I needed to understand
16:03
understand the camera in a way that, just like what you're
16:12
saying, almost like I'm not thinking. I understand where
16:14
every button is. I understand where where all the dials are. I
16:17
understand what what I want, and I can remember just laying down
16:21
and just having the camera in my hand and just going through the
16:23
motions, going through the motions, and going through.
16:26
Okay, I need this ISO. Okay, I need this f-stop. I need this,
16:30
and being able to do that quickly enough. And the main
16:34
reason why that was at the time is because I was learning, I was
16:39
teaching myself how to use the camera through doing seascapes,
16:44
and so at sunrise and at sunset, with the with the light changing
16:50
so quickly, and you have the waves, and I have to, and I want
16:53
to know exactly what type of texture I want in the water, so
16:56
I had to be pretty quick and learning. So I thought it was.
17:01
If I look back at it, that was probably, you know, learning
17:06
learning seascapes and the timing of the waves and the
17:11
light was probably the most difficult way to learn. But
17:14
that's the way I put myself through it.
17:16
Casey Fatchett: Right. It's a. It's you have diminishing light,
17:19
like it's going away quickly, and you're trying to figure all
17:22
all the different variables that that go into those shots. And
17:27
it's I'm curious that did you mentioned you know that that's
17:34
what you started with seascapes, but did like were there other
17:37
things that you were trying to photograph, or just like the
17:39
natural world sort of, was that what drew you in to start with?
17:44
I guess to like in just that's where you like. This is what I'm
17:48
going to do with with my photos. I'm taking pictures of nature.
17:51
I'm taking pictures of the of the natural world.
17:55
David Hendley: Yeah, taking picture of nature. That's I. I
17:57
wanted the natural world. I didn't want people. I didn't
18:00
want buildings. I didn't want anything else. I wanted, I
18:03
wanted nature. I wanted the beauty of nature. I wanted to
18:08
take pictures of at that time, and kind of still things that
18:14
people walk by every day, and there is beauty in it, and they
18:19
don't see it. You know all those all those thoughts back then was
18:28
really about the nature of things, the natural beauty of
18:31
things, and always been attracted to it. And that's even
18:35
in you know when I went to school, my first thinking was to
18:41
be. I wanted to be a marine biologist. That's something that
18:48
I had always dreamed of being. Then I went to school. I mean, I
18:53
started school and realized, hey, I can't be a marine
18:57
biologist and play football because I can't go out on
19:00
expeditions or I can't do these things. I my time needs to be
19:03
spent playing football. So now, so I had to get away from from
19:09
marine biology and focus on some other things. And but yeah, my
19:13
my first love really is just being out outdoors.
19:20
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that that's it's evident in your
19:23
photography that that's that you're passionate about it, and
19:28
I think that that's something that you know most people say.
19:33
Well, what should I take pictures of? And take pictures
19:37
of things you love is like a common kind of cliche answer,
19:41
but it's the thing that you know, especially if you want to
19:44
do this, you know, as a job.
19:48
David Hendley: Right.
19:49
Casey Fatchett: People need to understand, like you, you taking
19:51
pictures of things you enjoy. For me, one of the reasons that
19:56
weddings are a big part of my job. Because the first time I
20:01
did a wedding, I was fell in love with it. I'm like all the
20:03
emotion. It's like the happiest day of people's lives. Like one
20:06
of the happiest days, they get to have all their favorite
20:08
people around them, and it's just sort of like that energy
20:11
for me is just like it's important for me to capture
20:14
this. This is a really beautiful thing to document, and like it
20:20
meant so much to me that I was like, okay, I was doing before
20:24
that. I was doing headshots and band photos and stuff and
20:27
fashion here and there, whatever. It wasn't really like
20:30
very focused anything in particular. And then I was like,
20:34
this is where it's at for me, just because it has such an
20:37
emotional draw.
20:39
David Hendley: Yeah, seeing that, and I'm and I'm sure that
20:41
that emotion came out in your photography. It's just like when
20:45
I'm out in nature, and you know it's very emotional for me. And
20:50
if it's if it strikes me in in an emotional way, then yeah,
20:55
that's something that I have to look at closer and say, okay,
20:58
this is this is a possibility here for me to take a shot at,
21:01
but it's that emotion that I want to bring out so that people
21:06
could feel it. Whether they feel it the same way emotionally that
21:10
I feel, or they have a different emotion, that's up to them. But
21:14
it's that emotion that I want them to feel. And I'm sure that
21:16
that was the segment with you. You're if you're taking a
21:19
wedding photo and you're emotional with it, they're going
21:21
to feel it. Wow, this guy took a great shot of us. He was really
21:25
into us, really into the audience and everything else.
21:30
But fantastic.
21:32
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's about the it's about that having a. I
21:35
think both if you plan to do it for a long time, it's that you
21:39
get excited about doing
21:40
David Hendley: it. Absolutely.
21:41
Casey Fatchett: And two, like you're you're going to be doing
21:45
it a lot, and that's it's like so you you know you don't want
21:50
to. It's easy to burn out on something if you don't enjoy the
21:54
process.
21:55
David Hendley: Yeah,
21:55
Casey Fatchett: like if you if you have passion for the for
21:57
what you're doing, and like I always tell people, I come back
21:59
to this probably every five years. I'm like, do I want to
22:01
keep doing weddings? And I usually I'm still like, yeah,
22:05
because I really love the people and and the day of stuff. Yeah,
22:09
the business stuff I'm not a huge fan of, but it's it's those
22:13
finding things that if you plan to do this for a while,
22:17
especially if you plan to do it as a career, because it can
22:19
grind you down, you find those things that are you're truly
22:23
like in love with, and and
22:26
David Hendley: yeah,
22:26
Casey Fatchett: and it also it informs. It kind of gets into
22:31
another question I had about vision, like how you see the
22:33
photos, but your passion for it informs the vision that you have
22:39
for your images.
22:41
David Hendley: Yeah, you don't want to get up in the morning
22:43
and and and one not wonder why you're getting in the morning,
22:50
but be like, geez, I got to go take photos now, or this, I got
22:54
to go this. Your passion's coming from you, so no matter
22:57
what the weather is, no wonder what the audience is like with
23:00
web wedding rose or anything, your passion will get you
23:02
through. But like my vision, you know, my photo in my
23:09
photography, I I look for a few things. I look for balance. I
23:16
look for mood. And simplicity. I think those those three things
23:29
are very, of course, there's light, but those three things
23:34
are three areas that usually catch my eye for my for the
23:42
vision that I'm looking for for what I'm for the composition
23:45
that I'm looking for, yeah, those are three kind of
23:51
must-haves that I I got to have that simplicity. I got to have
23:54
that where there's no distractions within the photo
23:57
that's going to take your eye wandering, and and I don't know
24:02
how I learned any of that. That's just what feels emotional
24:07
to me,
24:07
Casey Fatchett: right? Well, it's it's the I don't want to
24:11
say minimalist, but like the sparseness of something or
24:14
simplicity of it, like makes it easier to convey the message.
24:19
I'm curious, like, how did you discover that? That's what you.
24:22
That's how you like to see things. How did you did it? Did
24:25
you just start like looking at your own photos that you were
24:27
taking, going like, "Oh, this is more, or did you kind of know
24:30
from the start? Like, I'm looking for things that are like
24:34
more. Yeah,
24:35
David Hendley: it didn't. I can tell you, I didn't come from the
24:37
start. It it may have already been there somewhere, some
24:41
somewhere deep inside me, but I don't think it came either from
24:44
looking at my own photos. It came from being out in the field
24:47
and seeing what I like and what attracts me and what is
24:50
emotional for me. It didn't. It's not something that I sat
24:56
around and said, "Okay, you know what? I'm going to start taking
24:58
photos that are moody that are." That are simple, that have great
25:02
balance, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, not that. That's not the
25:06
way that it happened. It's it's it's something that probably
25:10
just creeped up on me. That all of a sudden I'm I'm in the field
25:13
as much as I am, and and that was appealing to me. That was
25:18
emotional to me, and then. then it, you know, hard to put into
25:26
words, but that's what is that type of setting, that type of
25:30
environment is emotionally attractive to me. I used to take
25:37
big, big, big landscape photo. photographs and and at times I
25:46
still do it, but then I started to just narrow that down. Okay,
25:50
what is in this huge scene that I'm looking at that I could peel
25:56
away to really get to why is it appealing to me. Why is it
26:02
emotional to me? And I would just, if the word is minimalize
26:07
it, that's what I would do. If it's to shrink it down and make
26:10
it smaller, to say, okay, this is what, this is what has caught
26:13
my eye. This is what is emotional to me, and that I want
26:18
others to feel.
26:19
Casey Fatchett: So, okay, I'm totally, I'm totally get what
26:22
you're saying. What I my next step from there was would be if
26:28
someone's looking to develop intentionally what their vision
26:35
is. What would you suggest? Because for me, what that kind
26:39
of where that sort of thing comes from, because I went
26:41
through similar things in different types of photography.
26:44
I do a lot of like flower photography and nature stuff. It
26:48
just kind of is my Zen activity that's like outside of my work
26:51
stuff. It's very much how I see it. That's like yeah, I want it
26:57
like how do I want to take those photos? But I like looking at my
26:59
wedding photography, and it's like I want things that express
27:02
like there's 1000 different styles, whatever. Like mine is
27:06
very much on real emotion and unstaged moments, and and that's
27:15
the thing for me that developed over time because I was looking
27:20
at the photos that I had taken, and saying like, "Oh, there's a
27:24
kind of a, and also hearing back from people, like hearing back
27:28
from clients, because I was young and stupid when I started,
27:30
like I didn't know anything, but I did know enough to ask people
27:33
what they liked when they would say like, "Oh, this is great,
27:35
and I'm like, "Oh, what do you like about it? And enough people
27:37
came back to me and said like, "Oh, this is what I really, and
27:39
I'm like, "I'm natural. I realized I was naturally
27:42
inclined to take those photos, while I was taking other kinds
27:46
of pictures as well. I was like, "Oh, this is what I do when
27:50
nobody's asking me to do something.
27:54
David Hendley: Right,
27:54
Casey Fatchett: and that's where I kind of found my what my
27:58
intention was and what what my desire, what what I really
28:01
wanted to see, and and and then I started attracting people who
28:07
like that kind of work. But I think what would your advice be
28:11
for somebody who's trying to find that vision for themselves?
28:17
I know what I would.
28:18
David Hendley: Yeah, I would say you know it's hard to force it.
28:23
I I think I I don't I I don't I would say let it come natural
28:31
because I had you know I had people say hey you know you
28:34
should go to this place and take photos or hey you should you
28:38
should take photos of this big landscape and this this and and
28:44
okay, I'm I'm I'm hearing you. I understand you, but that's not
28:48
what is appealing to me.
28:50
Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
28:51
David Hendley: that's not what is. Um, that's not what I am
28:56
emotionally told or tied to. So I follow my own feelings, and I
29:03
guess if if someone was to ask me, I would say follow your own
29:06
feelings. Don't don't don't fall down the rabbit hole of doing of
29:11
doing things that somebody else wants you to to do. You know,
29:15
you feel with what you do with what you are passionate about
29:19
and what you like and what your vision sees, because if I mean
29:24
I've I've always thought this: if I'm taking a photograph and
29:28
I'm not emotionally tied to it, others will feel it.
29:33
Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
29:33
David Hendley: somebody's going. Somebody's going. Well, you
29:35
know, this doesn't look like David Henley. I mean, hey, this
29:37
is this is not this is not his work or or what have you?
29:41
Because I know when he takes photos, he's there's so much
29:44
emotion involved with it. He's trying to take us into where he
29:48
is.
29:50
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that it's the. I think it's a
29:53
trap that a lot of like people starting out in photography fall
29:57
into. They feel like. I get other people to like this,
30:02
David Hendley: yeah.
30:03
Casey Fatchett: Like I enjoy doing this instead of liking it
30:04
themselves and figuring out what they like. They're like, I'm
30:08
trying to figure out what other people like, so I can get that
30:11
validation from people,
30:13
David Hendley: right?
30:13
Casey Fatchett: And have them say like, "Oh, this is a great
30:15
photo, and that's what they're like. Instead of, I think it's,
30:20
and I tell me if this is true or not for you, but I feel more
30:25
validation when somebody tells me that something that was my
30:29
own vision that I saw, like this is how I saw things, and people
30:32
go, "That's amazing. I feel way more validated than just like I
30:36
took some photo that, you know, I don't know, a corporate
30:40
headshot or something, and people like, oh, that's great.
30:42
I'm like, there's no, there's a lot of technical skill there,
30:47
but there's not really like emotion to it. Yeah,
30:51
David Hendley: yeah, no, I agree, and I've never, I can
30:53
say, I've never taken photos where I'm listening to. to to
31:03
other voices other than my own. This is this is you know I I
31:10
don't know any other way to put it. It's I mean there's taking
31:16
taking beautiful nature shots is endless, but I have my own
31:22
vision, also.
31:24
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, that's what makes it yours, and I think
31:26
that that's if somebody. I think that I mean it's easier to do
31:29
that. I think when the pressure is off and you're not doing it
31:31
as a job, there's there's a little bit more of like, oh, I
31:35
can do whatever I feel like. I agree. I agree.
31:40
Once you're doing it, like you want people to hire you or buy
31:43
photos from you, you're like there's there's a little more
31:45
pressure on you, and so I think that people who are starting out
31:48
in a business tend to feel that like oh I got to do what other
31:51
people are like or what clients are going to do, and and they
31:53
start out I I certainly know that I did, like it was more
31:56
like oh what do I do okay like he's the first wedding I
31:59
photographed had had been to weddings, but I didn't know like
32:05
the setups and everything. And my photos, I look at the photos
32:07
from the first wedding, and they did that just came out naturally
32:09
for me. That were very much just what was in my head,
32:16
David Hendley: right? And
32:16
Casey Fatchett: I was like, there's still some really
32:18
beautiful pictures in there. And then I kind of fell into the
32:22
trap of like, okay, I've got to do what other people are doing
32:25
because that's what the industry is about. That's how you get
32:27
hired again and again. Then I figured out, no, it's not. It's
32:32
about people wanting to hire you because of what you can do and
32:37
what you see. And I think that's the same for if you're selling
32:40
prints of you know landscapes, if you're doing family
32:45
portraits, if you're doing whatever, it's the it's what you
32:52
what you bring to the table that sets you apart from anyone else.
32:56
David Hendley: Yeah, yeah, and I and I mean, granted, I mean, I
32:59
was pretty fortunate that at the time of my learning and teaching
33:04
myself, I had a very good job. I have, you know, I had steady
33:08
income, so I don't, I didn't fall into the trap of listening
33:13
to anyone else except for myself. And plus, I had to teach
33:17
myself, so I had all of these things going on, and I've I've
33:21
always been good at not listening to the other voices
33:25
and and and staying true to myself, whether it was sports or
33:29
even at work and coming up with different strategies. I've
33:34
always been true to myself.
33:36
Casey Fatchett: That's a level of confidence that is envious. I
33:39
am envious of, and because I know the how I felt the
33:44
beginning was, I mean, not the same way that I feel now.
33:49
Because, and I had to go through a lot of different iterations of
33:54
things to sort of get to that point where I felt like that
33:59
deep sort of confidence in my work and what, or what I wanted
34:04
out of this, or what what I was trying to achieve, I definitely
34:10
fell into the the external validate validation trap of like
34:14
I got to do what other people are going to like for for some
34:18
years
34:20
David Hendley: for I already knew that I was horrible, so I'd
34:22
rather being horrible for somebody else than it's going to
34:25
be horrible for myself and learn it my way because I I I was
34:29
pretty bad. So,
34:31
Casey Fatchett: listen, I think that it's just it's I think we
34:35
have to be okay with not being perfect,
34:39
David Hendley: right?
34:39
Casey Fatchett: Like as a as a photographer, that you're going
34:41
to make mistakes.
34:43
David Hendley: Yeah, it's
34:43
Casey Fatchett: another one of those things of like failing
34:46
forward, not upward, because that's a that's a very I
34:50
wouldn't failing upward is not good, but failing forward, like
34:53
using the mistake, learning from it to move forward in your
34:56
skills, teaching yourself something, like all right,
34:59
let's. Like I made a mistake, what do I learn from that? How
35:02
do I do it better next time? How do I understand this situation
35:05
better?
35:06
David Hendley: Yeah, and you had asked me a question about how
35:08
does you know my corporate life or or sports has impacted my
35:13
photography, and that is one of the biggest things, and that's
35:16
failure.
35:17
Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
35:18
David Hendley: failure is. I think sometimes people look at
35:21
failure as such a horrible thing, but if you're learning
35:24
from it, and it is the best teaching tool you have.
35:29
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I
35:29
David Hendley: mean, I can't. I mean, from my photography, I
35:32
know that. I mean, I can't. I mean, failure was part of was
35:36
part of, and still is who I am as a photographer, and in my
35:42
corporate life, I used to tell people, you know, hey, we're not
35:46
learning, we're not getting better unless we're failing, and
35:48
we're not trying hard unless we're failing at certain things
35:52
and learning from it and coming back even stronger. And that is
35:55
exactly the way you could ask any athlete.
35:58
Casey Fatchett: Yeah,
35:58
David Hendley: the same thing. And so it wasn't for me failing
36:02
so many times in photography and not getting this right, not
36:06
getting that right, and and so many other things. It wasn't. It
36:11
was not a big deal for me. It was a big deal for me to go.
36:14
Okay, now how do I fix it? How do I get better at it? Yes,
36:18
that's what I love. That that piece of it is is understanding
36:24
and getting better from the failures.
36:27
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, challenging yourself.
36:29
David Hendley: Yeah,
36:29
Casey Fatchett: because that's how you grow. That's just how
36:31
you grow. Otherwise, if everything, if you, I think you
36:35
you if you're not challenging yourself, you're not making
36:39
mistakes or not you know doing. You're not pushing yourself,
36:43
right? For instance,
36:44
David Hendley: Casey. This, I mean, there have been times that
36:45
I would go on an outing, and I would say, "Okay, David, you're
36:51
only going to take five shots. Now I know that if I'm if I'm
36:59
taking seascapes, five shots is going to be, and two or three of
37:04
them have to be excellent. So, so it's excellent in my own
37:09
view. So, you better have the composition correct. You better
37:15
have the the speed of the camera correct. The light has to be all
37:19
these things have to breakfast. You're only going to get five
37:21
shots, and you got to be disciplined enough to live by
37:23
that.
37:24
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that that's the thing. Like I
37:27
try to teach people. I mean, I started out shooting film when I
37:30
was younger, and one of the things there is you really have
37:35
to like. I'll tell people like, here, take a this mindset.
37:41
You're going to do 24 exposures, and that's all you get,
37:44
David Hendley: right?
37:45
Casey Fatchett: Not 24 shots that you like to tell the story.
37:50
24 exposures total, or 12 or 36. Giving yourself that limitation
37:57
makes you slow down,
38:00
David Hendley: absolutely,
38:01
Casey Fatchett: and be more and and have more intention for what
38:05
you're doing, because we get we fall into this trap. I think
38:09
with digital, where it's just like I can take as many shots as
38:11
I want. Then you end up with 100 photos where they're like that
38:16
aren't very different from one another, and they aren't, and
38:21
you really didn't think about it that much. It's because you're
38:23
just like, oh, I can get one of these is going to come out, and
38:26
I'm just going to like take a bunch of pictures. Whereas when
38:29
you use, it's easier to do with the I think with landscapes or
38:35
certain things, but you learn it over time by like having that.
38:39
You learn to do it faster over time. People ask about like you
38:41
know when things happen at a wedding, like it happens really
38:44
fast. Like yes, and I had to learn over time how to be
38:53
confident that I got the shot. A because when I was shooting
38:56
film, it was like I don't I couldn't see the picture that I
39:00
got. Like you're just like okay I know I got that one all right
39:03
like and now I can move on to my next thing and being really
39:07
intentional about where I'm putting myself what I'm trying
39:10
to capture and reading the situation it's the same for like
39:13
you're saying with seascapes if you know or I'm watching a
39:17
couple do their first dance I'm watching their body language so
39:20
I can see where they're going to turn. Is somebody going to put
39:22
their head in? Are they going to laugh? Like I'm learning to know
39:26
that that moment is coming, and put myself in the best position
39:30
for the composition that I want. It's I'm doing those
39:34
calculations way faster than when I did them when I started
39:37
out.
39:38
David Hendley: Right, right.
39:39
Casey Fatchett: And it's the same. I feel like it's the same
39:41
sort of that's that thought process. Like I'm going to limit
39:43
myself to five exposures, right? And so I have to like sit in
39:47
this and really be intentional about what I want, yeah. Because
39:53
if I can't just I can't just spray and pray.
39:57
David Hendley: Yeah, that's not. You you were hitting it right on
40:01
the head of being slow, slow down, and intentional of what
40:06
you want. I would hear, you know, I'm I'm I'm learning how
40:12
to take seasick, and I would hear other photographers nearby
40:17
just rattling off shots, rattling off, and I'm just like,
40:20
and I'm saying to myself, I I don't understand. I mean, how do
40:25
you get better? How do you, how do you, I, and that never
40:30
appealed to me, and I just could never understand it.
40:35
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I'm not going to yuck anybody's yum.
40:37
Everybody's trying maybe trying to do something different from
40:39
what I'm trying to doing, except when I have a second
40:43
photographer working with me at a wedding, and I just hear all
40:47
the time. I'm like, I have to edit those photos. Why are you
40:49
taking so many pictures? Again, be confident that you got the
40:52
photo because I don't. I don't need 15 shots of the same vase
40:58
of flowers. You know, make sure you get two, three shots, maybe,
41:03
and never get. Yeah, and
41:05
David Hendley: I'm not putting someone down by by. I mean,
41:07
believe me, I'm not putting someone down by doing it because
41:09
Casey Fatchett: it's just not right for you. That's
41:11
David Hendley: yes, it's not it's not my style of
41:13
photography. I want to be like what you said, very intentional
41:16
on what on what I'm taking.
41:19
Casey Fatchett: Right,
41:19
David Hendley: and if I miss it, guess what? It's on me. I miss
41:22
it.
41:22
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that it's-I don't know. One of
41:27
the things that really has like taught me patience in a
41:30
different way is bird photography. Like going out, and
41:36
there's an eagle who hangs out at a reservoir down the road
41:40
from me, and just going out there because one of my buddies,
41:44
my photographer friends, loves going birding. It's it's neither
41:48
of our jobs. It's not what we get paid to do. But I just like
41:52
I've been out there and I had gotten a. My wife had gifted me
41:58
a really long telephoto lens, so like a 150 to 600
42:01
David Hendley: which my wife would gift me one of them,
42:04
Casey Fatchett: because it was something like when we would go
42:05
on trips together, and I would try to capture wildlife. I
42:08
didn't have a lens that could get close enough,
42:10
David Hendley: right?
42:10
Casey Fatchett: And she's like, "I know this is something that's
42:12
been bothering you for years, and you wouldn't go out and buy
42:14
it for yourself. So I had this. I was like, "All right, I got to
42:19
use it. Like, I'm not going to let this like just sit around,
42:22
so like I'm going to take pictures of birds. Anyway, you
42:25
like having a really long telephoto lens makes it much
42:27
easier to photograph birds. But it was going out there and
42:32
realizing that the situation might not even present itself
42:35
where you can get to take a photo, which is a whole new
42:39
concept for me, I was just like I'm used to like going out there
42:43
and like going doing something like if I'm even if I was going
42:46
to do landscape stuff or if I'm going to photograph flowers
42:49
something like the thing is there. I have to maybe analyze
42:53
what kind of photo I want to get out of it, but like it's there.
42:55
But when it came to like wildlife or something like it
42:58
might not show up, you might not you might not even get a chance,
43:01
and then you maybe look for something else to take photos of
43:04
while you're there or whatever. But like, you're keeping an eye
43:06
out for like one particular thing. Like, you might walk away
43:09
with taking no pictures at all, and that was something I got had
43:12
to get used to, and accept, and like feel okay with that, and
43:17
not feel like I failed in some manner, like knowing that, like
43:22
that's just a situation. It's okay. So, I'm curious: does does
43:31
having like that sense of vision, like what really appeals
43:37
to you for a photo, do you find that that narrows things down as
43:43
far as like what you're going to photograph, or does it kind of
43:45
like open the world up in a way to like I can see what I want
43:49
and more things, or does it feel like you're able to sort of like
43:53
hone in and just like okay, this is what it's going to be.
43:58
David Hendley: Good question. You know, sometimes, sometimes
44:04
it feels very open because if I'm out in the field and I'm not
44:11
looking for anything particular, but I know that the light is
44:14
right today, I could be wide open and just have something
44:23
catch my eye, and that's beautiful. That's that's that is
44:29
such a great feeling, especially if I've walked past that place
44:35
three or four or five times, and I'm like, "Oh my God, I've never
44:38
seen this. Okay, so this looks fantastic, you know. This is,
44:41
and I know maybe 1000s of others have walked past it, or or
44:46
whatever. And then there are times when I do narrow down that
44:54
focus. I know exactly what I want. I've been there several
44:59
times. And several times could mean anywhere from 10 to 20
45:05
times. Yeah, but the light, but the light wasn't right, or I
45:10
just wasn't feeling it that day, or something just wasn't right.
45:15
And now my focus is is is really strong on on that subject, and
45:25
you're dialed in. I'm dialed in. Yeah, I'm dialed in. It just may
45:29
be perfect that day, or on the other hand, it may not be that.
45:34
Even though I'm dialed into that, it may not work. And all
45:37
of a sudden, I see something else totally, totally different
45:42
from a different position, and now I'm like, okay, fantastic.
45:47
Yeah,
45:49
Casey Fatchett: yeah. It's uh, it's that you may have been in
45:54
this situation 1000 times before, but you're seeing
45:56
something differently in this moment. Like it's either either
46:00
like you know what you're looking for, or something has
46:07
popped up to you that has grabbed your attention and made
46:11
you like this is oh this is it I totally understand what you're
46:14
saying like it's not it's not always one or the other
46:17
David Hendley: yeah there's an area that's that's kind of near
46:19
where I live that I've walked by, you know, I could say 2030,
46:25
30 times, and I know something's there, and I don't see it. I
46:31
don't see it for all those many times, and then one time I'm
46:36
like, "That's what I've been looking for right there, and it
46:42
is. it is, it is by this lake, and the reflections there, and
46:46
the lights there, the trees there, everything is all under.
46:49
I go walk by this spot 30 or 40 times, and I knew something was
46:54
there. And today I see it.
46:57
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's it just like it, the moment is
47:02
right.
47:03
David Hendley: Yeah.
47:03
Casey Fatchett: For whatever the reason.
47:05
David Hendley: Yeah.
47:07
Casey Fatchett: So we've talked about having this creative
47:13
vision, but there's always like if you decide to do this as a
47:15
job, and we kind of touched on this before. There's a real
47:19
tension between having your vision and commercial viability,
47:25
sort of a balance between the work you feel you need to make
47:32
personally and making work that sells or gets published. How do
47:36
you hold that tension in a way that is you feel? feel you seem
47:43
to have the courage of your convictions from this discussion
47:48
that we're having. Like this is how I'm going to shoot stuff.
47:50
This is what I'm going for. Do you feel that your background in
47:54
sports and corporate world helped prepare you for that, or
48:01
do you feel like is that something you still struggle
48:04
with? Or
48:07
David Hendley: no, I don't struggle with it because I think
48:10
I'm being I'm being true to myself. I've never set out to
48:15
say, okay, I'm going to take this photo because I think it's
48:20
going to sell great, you know. I've never, I've that that has
48:26
never has never come into my mind at all, and I've always it
48:31
comes down back to my belief of emotion. If I'm emotionally tied
48:36
to it, then then I'm being true to myself. If it doesn't touch
48:42
me in some certain way, then then there's no photo, really.
48:47
There's no. I'll just sit there and and enjoy the beauty of
48:52
nature, and and love the scene without taking a with with
48:57
without taking a photo, but it's it's the discipline of of
49:02
staying true to yourself. I couldn't imagine it, and I guess
49:07
I'm very thankful because I did have have a wonderful a
49:11
wonderful corporate career. I'm I'm I'm very thankful that that
49:17
I'm not out there saying, okay, I got to get the shot because I
49:22
know this is going to sell great, and I, I can't imagine
49:27
doing that because I, I probably would not be very good at all.
49:32
Casey Fatchett: Well, it's sort of the like I, I think that
49:35
it's, and we sort of touched on this a little bit earlier. If
49:39
you have passion for your subject, and there, and it's
49:43
getting something from you. It's going to show in the photos, and
49:46
people are more likely to have a reaction to it that engages
49:50
them. And I can't remember who it was that the photographer
49:53
said. It's like it's a famous quote. I'm trying to remember,
49:58
but it was like if you don't have any. To say, your photos
50:01
aren't going to say much either.
50:04
David Hendley: Perfect. Yeah, exactly.
50:05
Casey Fatchett: Like, if you have something, if you have a,
50:10
if you're sort of wishy-washy and like, what am I trying to do
50:13
here? And like, am I trying to like make the photo that? I
50:17
mean, there are great commercial photographers out there, great
50:20
like advertising people who work in like, but I think some of the
50:24
best ones are the ones that like know how to tell a story, yeah,
50:27
and and they that is what they see,
50:30
David Hendley: yeah,
50:30
Casey Fatchett: in the image as opposed to just like, well, this
50:33
is one that's really gonna like people are gonna really identify
50:36
with this shot. That's not how they're looking at. That's not
50:38
how the good ones like are are are really thinking about it. I
50:43
think they're thinking about what. Even watching people who
50:48
do fashion photography and how they're like talking to the
50:51
model and like saying like they know they know what the vision
50:56
is. They've got it in their head and they're like trying to
50:59
direct in a way that is like we're gonna get you there as the
51:03
model, and we're gonna get like we're gonna make this happen,
51:06
and this is where where I'm trying to lead you to, so that
51:10
we can get that image that really tells the story in the
51:13
way that I want it to. So I think it it comes down to the
51:18
people who are great at this are the ones that have like stay
51:26
with their vision, stick to it instead of going. I got to take
51:33
the image that sells. I think the the people who really stand
51:37
out, and like I said, in my own like main industry that I work
51:41
in commercially, I started doing way better as far as like
51:46
bookings when I just leaned into what I would do left to my own
51:52
devices because I attracted more people who liked that style, and
51:58
those people were more interested in paying me to do
52:01
the job because they're like, I want that, as opposed to like
52:05
trying to appeal to everyone, and then you get like you're not
52:10
as lucky as far as like the people who are going to come and
52:13
pay for your photo or pay for pay for a print or or hire you
52:16
to do a job because they're like I don't know what you believe in
52:20
I don't know what I'm going to get. You seem to be all over the
52:23
place,
52:24
David Hendley: right I think you have to stay. I think the word
52:28
is discipline. That word is key in your in your beliefs of what
52:33
of what you're passionate about, and not and not waver off that
52:38
path. But I mean, it's probably easy for me to say, because I've
52:43
never been in that situation where I have to do this for,
52:48
for, for a job,
52:49
Casey Fatchett: for a particular client.
52:51
David Hendley: Yeah, for a particular client. So maybe
52:55
easier for me to say it that way, but it's still the same
52:59
that I I have to remain disciplined and in what I'm
53:04
passionate about. That that emotional piece that ties me to
53:10
that image.
53:13
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think. Yeah, it's be true to yourself.
53:19
So to wrap this portion things up for someone standing where
53:24
you once were, maybe someone who's a successful professional
53:29
who's feeling a tug of creativity and that they that
53:35
they haven't acted on, what do you feel is the most important
53:39
thing they should know about finding and trusting their own
53:45
vision.
53:48
David Hendley: I think to do that, you have to be passionate
53:49
about about what you're doing, because I don't think if if
53:53
you're not passionate about it, I think that will come out. I
53:59
think. If you're passionate about it, then you're going to
54:06
have the discipline to stay true to yourself.
54:17
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55:23
Hey folks! Big news from our friends over at SiteGround Web
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of two of their packages by 150% The Grow Big, which I use
55:36
because I'm managing the Dirty Photographer website, my wedding
55:40
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my art photography website, and some other sites is now 50 gigs
55:49
of storage. It used to be 20. I had gotten a message recently,
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actually, said I was up over 80% of my storage capacity. So I was
55:59
thinking, hmm, what are we going to delete? But now I don't have
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56:59
Hey hey, and now for my favorite part of the show, what's that
57:04
say? Useless information. This is always death.
57:11
David, it is time for the useless information for this
57:15
episode. As a former NFL player, how many people do you think
57:22
watch the first televised football game?
57:26
David Hendley: Oh, I guess maybe 10,000
57:43
Casey Fatchett: You're closer than I was when I first saw this
57:46
question. It was in 1939, so there weren't a lot of
57:50
televisions out there. Right. It was 1000 people around 1000
57:53
David Hendley: No,
57:55
Casey Fatchett: I mean still, but like I mean, I was I was
57:57
thinking like probably 20, 30,000 You know, like sure,
58:01
because I was thinking it's like maybe like televised football.
58:05
Is this going to be like maybe the late 40s? So kind of what I
58:09
was thinking, and I'm like, they're like, nope, 1939 It was
58:12
before World War Two. David, it was a pleasure having you on.
58:18
David Hendley: It was a pleasure, pleasure.
58:21
Casey Fatchett: Where
58:22
David Hendley: the whole hour
58:23
Casey Fatchett: Where can people find you and see your work? Oh,
58:27
David Hendley: yeah! People can find me on Instagram at David's
58:31
Pursuit. It's D A V I D S P U R S U I T, David's Pursuit, and my
58:41
website, and that is David'spursuit.com
58:45
Casey Fatchett: I'll include those links in the episode
58:46
notes, so people can go in there and look through there and click
58:49
on them. David, thank you so much. You're welcome to come
58:53
back anytime.
58:55
David Hendley: Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you, Casey.
59:05
Casey Fatchett: Welcome back. I hope you enjoyed my talk with
59:08
David Headley. Make sure that you go into the episode notes to
59:11
check out his work as well as follow him on the social media.
59:14
While you are following, be sure to follow the Nerdy Photographer
59:17
at the Nerdy Photo. Yes, at the Nerdy Photo. photo, no dots,
59:24
underscores, or dashes on Instagram, Threads, TikTok,
59:28
Reddit, and Blue Sky. We get up to all sorts of humorous goings
59:33
on between the episodes. Don't miss out. That was quite the
59:42
collision. Yeah, that could have been bad, but he remembered the
59:45
first rule of sports ball. And what is that? Protect your neck.
59:51
Until next time, folks. Stay safe and stay nerdy.
1:00:07
Unknown: Who's that coming back to town? You better start this
1:00:10
on X. Who's your heart been beating about? You better, you
1:00:14
better, you better, you better listen.