Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.66 | You’re Watering Down Your Message & it’s Hurting Your Business, with Sara Noel, Website Copywriter

Transcript

Ep.66 | You’re Watering Down Your Message & it’s Hurting Your Business, with Sara Noel, Website Copywriter · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast, the show for intentional business owners and curious minds looking to combine the inner work and outer work to create a life, business, and career that feels deeply fulfilling and wildly aligned on all levels.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're your hosts.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Shay.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm Mariah.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're two business strategists passionate about rewriting the rules to success in a way that combines both strategy and energetics.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this podcast started with both of us being in the online business world, craving more deep, meaningful, and transparent conversations.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we decided to come together and create a space to do just that.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Our guest interviews highlight cool humans doing cool shit, chasing their dreams, and going down their own rabbit holes to create a more sustainable and fulfilling life in whatever way that means for them.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: We see this podcast as everything that people won't share on social media.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: We don't give a fuck about highlight reels or proven frameworks.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: We love getting in the weeds, asking the tough questions, and doing the work to create a life and career we love, all while committing to ourselves and our personal growth.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because only through that lens can we truly create a lifestyle that feels good from the inside out.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are you ready to trust the nudge and let curiosity guide the way?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're excited to shake shit up and live outside the box with you.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we've been wanting to have a conversation on the podcast about not watering down your message for probably the past three seasons.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so when me and Shay were kind of just like talking about this, Sarah is the person that came to mind.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, yo, we have to reach out to Sarah and we have to have her on the podcast to talk about this.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the business space, she's just one of those people that it's like you can feel authenticity like oozing from her words, either when you're reading them, when she's speaking, when she's showing up on social media, when she's writing her newsletters.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like how you like perceive her words and everything, that's like how she is.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not one of those things where it's like, oh, you get one thing like when you connect with her on social media, and then the next thing when you like connect with her on a call.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, she shows up, she's consistent.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: But what I like about this conversation is like we gave, we went in so many different directions, including like giving tips for improving confidence in yourself and in your message.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And all of us gave really good examples of just like how this shows up and kind of what we've learned through this process of getting to know ourselves.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we also dive into like content ideas, but not in a way of like, we need a content calendar, but in a way of like, how can we make this easier?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And ways for us to tap into who we are and then allow that to be shown through in our business because that's how we connect and draw in the people that are going to be our raving fans or be the people that we really, really truly enjoy working with.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I really love the emphasis that we make on like embracing what it means to be authentically you.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love where this conversation went.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think you guys are really, really, really going to enjoy it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just like honestly, my biggest takeaway from this episode, I got off this uh podcast interview with Sarah and I felt like I wanted to light something on fire.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like her energy is just infectious.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Her, I am someone that's, you know, working through my own battles with like trying to unmask and show up more authentically as myself.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she is someone that's just out there walking the walk and made me feel like, wow, if she's doing this, I can do this too.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: I found it just very encouraging and inspiring just to be in her energy and be around her.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And like Mariah said, she has a gaggle, a big group of raving fans.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like her people are for her.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: They love her.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And she shows up in a way that I hardly see anybody show up as.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: One of Mariah's and I's biggest criticism about the online space is it feels like a lot of people just rinsing and repeating what other people are saying.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a lot of like following this formula.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um it seems like it lacks a bit of realness or humanness.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Sarah is somehow able to bridge this gap of being incredibly human and honest and transparent, but also this very talented copywriter.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing I appreciate about this episode was she shares a really realistic perspective about what it takes to actually build a business in the online space.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I found just like her journey very honest and real, and I could relate to it.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: She has a lot of interesting ideas for a copywriter.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we kind of explore the idea of origin story and she shares her thoughts about how that's maybe a little bit overrated and a little bit too hyped up.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciated just her really unique perspective on anything on everything.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And in the note, so you guys know me, like at the end of the day, I wanted to know like, how do I be this authentic self, but still protect my privacy and, you know, like my personal life and what does that balance look like?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Sarah had awesome answers or just thoughts on all of that stuff.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, this episode has something for everybody.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Even just being around her energy is really powerful.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, let's dive into her bio.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So Sarah Noel is a website copywriter and marketing mentor for business owners who want to craft compelling narratives and build better connections with their ideal clients and customers.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Through copywriting, marketing strategy, and mentorship, she helps creative brands, founder first businesses, and freelancers create, tell, and sustain their success stories, with an emphasis on embracing their authenticity and attracting their ideal audiences.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: When Sarah's not drafting website copy, teaching her students about content marketing, or sending an excessive amount of audio messages in response to a mentee's questions, you can find her nose deep in an Ellen Hildebrand novel, dreaming up her next project, impulsively getting another new tattoo, or entranced in a stranger's life story.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, she has that tell me your whole life face.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: To get to know Sarah and learn from her tons of and learned her tons of free marketing tips, visit her online at between the linescopy.com on Instagram at BTLcopy, or subscribe to her newsletter, the Tuesday Table of Contents at betweenthelinescopy.com slash subscribe.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll have all of those links for you in the show notes as well.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, let's dive into the episode.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you are the perfect person to have on the show to talk about this.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I don't remember how we connected some Instagram interwebs of some shit, but I remember like one of the first times that I was like, oh, she's down.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's she's down.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember you shared like a screenshot and you posted in your Instagram stories while A, you tell your dating stories.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other one that really got me was like a screenshot of a text message thread with a client.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you like lovingly called your client an asshole or something like that, or just like something.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And like I was like, this it feels ballsy, but also like this is what gets to happen when you show up as yourself authentically and like you let your audience see you.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like you get to attract people that get you and want to work with you, and you don't have to tiptoe and like walk on eggshells because your entire brand will already like repel the people that aren't for you.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to see where this conversation goes.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like in order to kick this off, I think that it's funny because most of the time we usually kick off the interview of like, who are you?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like, how did you get here?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like having people go into their origin story.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: But on the forum, Sarah basically was like, guys, can we like not do the origin story of just like how I became a copywriter and just like how I got into this work?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Which is funny because we were talking about it before the episode.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Shay was like, wait a minute, like you're a copywriter and don't you like tell people about your origin story like all the time?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, isn't that super important?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, what's your perspective on that?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: My literal response to her when she said that was fucking origin story.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason, okay, I'll give you guys the teeth.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: My whole since we're talking about our authentic selves not watering down our brands, showing up as the person that you actually are and want to be to attract those right people, I'll just tell you what I usually do, which is peel back the entire curtain.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, there's no reason for there to be a curtain anywhere between me and my audience in my opinion, because what I'm doing as a copywriter is writing their story.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: So why am I gonna like be fake about mine?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna tell you guys the tea right now, you guys meaning the listeners.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: So they ask when they have a podcast guest on this lovely podcast if there's anything you don't want to talk about.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, as Mariah said, I literally put my origin story because I'm sick and tired of talking about it.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Every podcast I go on.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, back in the day, my then husband and I were moving to Canada because he's from there and I needed a remote job and blah, blah, blah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Point number one, I'm divorced, okay?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to talk about that guy anymore.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't need to be on this podcast with us.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: He is busy in Canada.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in Boston with our child, okay?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't need to be said anymore.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a copywriter now.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: It popped off.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Love that for me.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Don't need to discuss.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we don't need to know.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: I understand why people put so much emphasis on an origin story, but in a career like this, or like any of the careers that we have, me as a copywriter, Mariah as an SEO expert, like a website designer, brand designer, via any creative career, you don't need to have like a college education in that specific field or like so much experience that led you here.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can literally teach yourself a skill and decide to use that as the foundation of your business.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: So an origin story doesn't matter as much as we think it does unless it's really relevant and captivating, and that's what's gonna, you know, help you relate to your audience.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: So who the hell is gonna relate to me being like, Teehee, I married a guy from a different country and then we moved to his country and I needed a remote job?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like nobody's gonna have the same origin story.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: They might be like, cool, I'm from Canada too.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, guess what?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sick of talking about Canada.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm so sorry if you have Canadian listeners, me talking shit about Canada right now.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it just doesn't need to be said anymore.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: When we were talking about it before, Mariah made such a great point that when you're on a podcast, obviously you want to share it with your own audience.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would love to, you know, share this episode of my newsletter.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: But how many goddamn times is my audience gonna hear about the way that I started because I needed a remote job, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to share that with them.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: So because I know that I really like the host of this podcast, I prefer to not dive into a 20-minute story about my origin because you know what?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need to know that.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, what a great perspective.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I I love that as soon as you said it, I was like, oh, we gotta still share this, but we need to share it with the spin on it of um there's other things to talk about, guys.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: We don't always just have to talk about like where did you come from?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm curious, like you in particular seem like you're just like this fountain of ideas.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm looking out through your Instagram and you're talking about this and that and the other, and it's all somehow magically like perfect and like always pointing back to you and the brand.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm wondering, like, how do you get ideas for content to share?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: If we're not sharing origin story, like, where do all the ideas come from?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: I am literally going to only refer to myself as a fountain of ideas from now on.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know if you just inflated my ego.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's something we can talk about is confidence in showing up as yourself because I have a very inflated sense of confidence.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I have no business walking around here with this ego, and you just made it worse.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, as the fountain of ideas, no, I feel like back to the origin story for one second.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think people feel compelled to share it for two reasons.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, they don't know what else to say, right?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone's sharing their origin story, so they think they just have to.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's the reason you guys asked that question.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, well, we should start off for they don't have any context for who the hell this girl is.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: You might as well tell people where she came from.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just feels like the natural thing to do.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the second reason is because they don't know what else to say if they weren't to share that.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, people, you know, in my profession, obviously, I have a job because people don't know what to write about themselves.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if they do know what to write, they don't know how to do it.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: That makes it, you know, sound like them or connect with the people they want to connect with.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that the origin story doesn't serve as like this element of relatability that people want it to.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, in terms of ideas, I just I really wish I had a better answer for you, other than I'm a natural storyteller because I'm dramatic.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I when I was growing up, I would wouldn't just have a headache, I would have a splitting migraine that felt like knives in my skull.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like my mom would be pissed at me every time I would describe anything.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't just I didn't want that for dinner, it was like that is what the devil's core serves for his fifth course.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would be so dramatic for nothing.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that you know is a piece of it, the drama of it all.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: But because I value the way my audience connects to regular ass stories that I tell, uh, typically my weekly newsletter, I've been sending a weekly newsletter for 133 weeks straight at the time of this recording.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but once I saw the response to like, oh, people actually care about what I have to say because I'm sharing real things, it made me realize I don't have to look for ideas.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just can share anything that I feel is relevant.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I don't want to put too much weight on the word relevant because you know, someone listening to this might be like, but I don't have anything relatable to share.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not cool.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people say this to me often.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Mariah mentioned that I share my dating stories, and now it gets brought up all the time.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, that's my bad.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because do I really want to be known for that?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: But like we're too, we're in too deep now, and now I just have to.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So here we are.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I share those things, and people think, like, oh my god, your life is crazy.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: You got a matching tattoo of the boy you just met 24 hours prior on your first date.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: What the hell?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Which, like, yeah, that's absolutely wild.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Who does that?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: But also, you hear the one story and you think crazy content.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: I wish I like lived a fun, cool life like that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Girl, I have 44 days a year that I am kid free.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: That is it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have to live an accelerated life, okay, in those 44 days.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Every other day, I'm just a regular ass person like who hasn't had a sip of water today, procrastinating right before this podcast.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, those are the things people want to hear about.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I think focusing on your everyday content that you might not even realize is content is the best way to, I don't know, tap into that fountain of ideas that you're talking about.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's also very timely that we're having this interview at the time of this recording.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Threads, the new social app, just came out, like, I don't know, four or five days ago, took the took the social media world by storm, as they say.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting when this episode comes out.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: We can listen back and see if like people still give a shit about threads.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be very interested about that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the biggest thing that like really popped off when it happened was everybody was like, oh, this is such a beautiful excuse for us to let our hair down and for us to be more authentic and like more transparent.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's like, why weren't you being authentic and transparent on the other platforms?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the question that I ask of like, what made you think that you had to be like button up and professional over on Instagram that you felt like you couldn't share your message, your voice, or just like your dating stories on Instagram?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like Sarah is sharing all of that shit on Instagram.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like Sarah didn't need threads as an invitation in order to like bring her people into her world with her.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like when you look around and you kind of flip the idea of like, what is content, or like how do I quote, connect with my audience?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: What if it was as simple as just you being yourself?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just like going through your day.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, how many thoughts do we have in our in our heads all of the time?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Threads is just a little easier for us to share, but it's like my laptop is no longer a laptop, it is now a desktop.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have to keep it plugged in all of the time.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: I fucking shared that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: I shared that on threads, I shared it on Instagram.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, and then I had people being like, yo, me too.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: This shit's so whack.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how long did yours last?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like that had nothing to do with SEO, but that was not the point.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like me sharing stuff, but I'm not thinking, like, how can I share my laptop and bring people behind the scenes into my problems?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think threads was just like a huge eye-opener of like people are fucking walking around as like shells of themselves on social media.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think you made a good point that I try to make all the time whenever I talk about this concept of authenticity and connecting to your audience.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: People are thinking about it way too fucking hard.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's no reason that you need to be sitting there bracking your brain for how you could possibly connect with your audience.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: How do you make a friend?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: How do you have a conversation with anybody in real life?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like on my about page, I always say this the number one thing people comment on has nothing to do with me, nothing to do with copywriting, nothing to do with marketing, business, anything.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have two things.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have that I'm a hoe for italics.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I fucking love and italicize anything.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I have that I'm a chocolate addict with no intent on seeking recovery, nothing to do with copywriting, okay?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: People always comment on that.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: People comment on the dating stories, they comment on my random obsession with tennis.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like if they comment on everything but the thing that they're supposed to care about from me, which is crazy when you think about it.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: But all anyone wants is a genuine connection.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell people to act like there's one person on the other side of the screen and that it's a friend that you're talking to.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: A bestie.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's not that serious.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I like what you said about threads with people like finally letting their hair down.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was actually on vacation when threads came to be and I came back.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have two phones.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I leave my like social media phone at home all the time.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't bring it out with me anywhere, especially not on vacation.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then so today I come home and I was like, okay, fucking fine.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'll get threads.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone was DMing me.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait for you to get on threads.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be so funny on threads.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to see you on threads, blah blah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: I have a bunch of DMs about it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was feeling really famous.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: I go on there, you know, the followers come in.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I start, I almost said tweeting.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I start, whatever you, what do you even say?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Threading?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Start posting on threads, literally.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I posted a thread right before this.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: I said, people in my DMs, oh my god, I can't wait for you to get on threads.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Me on threads, should I have salsa for breakfast?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not any different on threads.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why everyone was like so excited for me to get on there.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have any hot take.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: The things that I was threading about this morning, literally, I said, should I have salsa for breakfast?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: I talked about my 2 a.m.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Google search of can you be diagnosed with cystic fibrosis in adulthood?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was coughing a lot and I got nervous.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And like random things like that, those are the things I'm sharing on threads, okay?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing revolutionary at all, but people are laughing about it, people are connecting with it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's somebody else that wants to have salsa for breakfast.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Also, when I threaded that, it was noon.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even realize that it wasn't breakfast time anymore.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Totally acceptable for me to eat salsa at that time.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like random stuff.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, you don't need an excuse to be yourself.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think the reason though is because, like, let's say Instagram, you need to create a post and then write a caption.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: It feels a lot more laborious to do that.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to go in Canva and make a template.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: It has to be pretty and it has to match and it has to catch someone's eye, and then you have to think about a caption, respond to people's comments, post it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking that's so annoying.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: This is my advocacy for email marketing.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why me specifically, I'm able to connect with people better in terms of marketing because an email to me feels similar to threads.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm just sending that to one person.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's no like real need to make it that pretty.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that serious.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have like a template I use every time for my weekly newsletter, and it feels easier to connect because we're not hiding behind like a perfect graphic or a funny reel or like timing something perfectly with the sound we're using for the trending audio.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I feel like people must be saying that about threads because they can just post in real time and not care about a strategy because there is no real thread strategy yet.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: But what if we just like Mariah said, what if we just acted like that all the time?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: What would happen?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you, uh, pigs would not fly, the sky would not fall, you would get more clients, and your business would throw for it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious, did you come out the gate in the online business world just like knowing your message and your confidence, or did this take some time to develop?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like how has the message changed over the evolution of your business?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great question.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if the message has changed.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I'm actually cheating.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even gonna lie to you.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a brand voice, I simply have my voice that I have just made my brand's voice as well.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to come on here and say there's no need for a brand voice.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're like a product-based business, of course you need a brand voice.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are a freelancer who really is just a freelancer, like I have no goal to become an agency, I have no goal to hire junior copywriters and designers like under my wing and manage people.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really do have the plan to just continue being a freelance copywriter.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I will like work with one more person to support me and then continue offering educational material.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's literally just me.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes it easier for me to show up as myself because the brand and the person aren't two different things in my mind.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I never really developed like between the lines says this, like BTL copy says that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like we talk this way.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't make brand guidelines for myself.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I don't want to come on here and say you don't need those because I do think most brands do.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're in my situation when you're just a person showing up in the World who wants people to hire you for a service that you offer.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: It would be weird and hard if I tried to be something that's like a little bit different than me.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, I'm fucking swearing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to work with somebody who doesn't want to be my friend.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like I said, I'm telling people a story and it feels very intimate for you to tell me like about your life and your fucking origin story and how you want to portray yourself.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: But if we don't vibe, if we don't get along, if I can't be myself with you on a Zoom call, how am I going to extract the correct information to then write about you and like feel connected enough to you to portray you in the light you want to be portrayed in?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think the message has changed from when I started.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: I do think that I began from a place of like unwavering confidence because I knew I'm not going to show up.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, I'm not an insecure person.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Second of all, I'm not going to show up insecure.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then what?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Who's going to hire me if I'm like, hey, I think I'm like a copyright or something.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Who's going to work with me if that's my?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like come out the gate excited about it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: I also think that's a huge reason why I had the confidence in the space.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: I knew that what I did as much as I could to be as best as I could can be in what I do.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like I knew that I knew my stuff as well as I could at that time.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was confident in the things that I was offering.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I was really excited about it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was excited about the career.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was excited to learn more.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was excited to work with people, and I think that translated.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: But also something that people do in the beginning that I think is a huge mistake is they start off on Instagram.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: They start off on TikTok.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: They start off on social media.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Don't fucking do that because you know what's gonna happen.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be focused on follower count, and you're not gonna be focused on growing your business.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: I grew my business first.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: I got clients independently of social media, other than randomly, Facebook groups actually popped off for me in like 2020, but besides the point.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I grew my website, I grew my blog um content.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: I started email marketing, I launched freebies, like I reached out to people, I made connections with website designers, I built a referral network.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: I did all of that before Instagram.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think not having to show up as myself so often really helped me like feel confident about what the business was because I knew, okay, I have clients.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually getting paid for this really cool thing that I like to do.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: So now I feel like I can talk about it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I have a little bit more authority on the subject because now there's social proof.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: I have testimonials, I have work that I can show people.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now I can show up and be like, hey, look, I'm good at this.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also another privilege that I had, which we didn't cover because we didn't go over my origin story, but I had saved a lot of money before, or I don't want to say a lot of money, that's relative, obviously, but I had saved money prior to starting the business because I knew I was moving to a different country and there was going to be a possibility that I might not have to work.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I so I live in Massachusetts, fucking expensive as hell to live here.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and moving to the part of Canada that we lived in, it was dirt cheap.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like my rent to live in a two-bedroom lake house on the water was like$1,250 US dollars, all of my utilities included.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that was my only bill besides like my car insurance.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had no bills living in Canada.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's important to mention I didn't rely on the business as heavily as maybe somebody else starting to freelance wood who might be like panicked about making sure it worked.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I had the luxury of showing up as myself and just hoping that it would work out and hoping that you know people liked what I was presenting to them.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think some people that are relying on this like as their number one either like escape plan from the job that they hate right now or the thing that they are trying to really make happen, like their last-itch effort to make money or make a living or whatever it is, might be more apprehensive to show up as their true self because they probably think, well, what if somebody doesn't like that?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: What if I don't get business?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: And like, what if I'm swearing?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: My dad always gets so stressed if I swear on my Instagram story.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, You're gonna get fired.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, by who?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, there's nobody to fire me.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: People think I'm funny because I told them that I didn't shower for three days my Instagram story.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's hilarious.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: People want to work with me because I said that.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: They said it in their inquiry form.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which, you know, he doesn't get that.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: He's also old.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that coming from the place of privilege of not having to rely on it.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: My husband at the time did work.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had saved money to pay, you know, a couple months of our rent.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Again, it was not expensive.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I also just believed that it didn't, I nothing came for me that I was like, maybe this isn't gonna work.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always thought it was gonna work, and that is what I recommend, uh, being delusional, maybe a little bit.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think the confidence was innate prior to getting started.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think A, there's so much, like we can go on so many different tangents here.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have like a full page of notes of like where I want to go, but I do want to talk about that piece that you kind of just ended with really quick, because like I can relate to that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like in my head when starting my business, there was no way that it wasn't going to work.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, maybe that was a little delusional, but also maybe and maybe it was overconfidence.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that it was like, I didn't know what I didn't know.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So how could it not work out?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I think the yeah, and what you're saying, especially about like when your business is you or like you're showing up and you're the brand.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it makes like not watering down your message so much easier because as you were saying, like, I feel like I'm cheating, I don't have a brand voice.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was thinking, yeah, I don't either.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I always thought in the beginning stages of my business, I'm not a real business owner.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't, I never hired somebody to create my brand.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a brand voice, I don't like have these like ROI marketing documents for blah, blah, blah.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't even know if I know how to market.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do I know marketing?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Which is like hilarious when you think about it.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think that like that's what makes it hard for people that like that are their brand and their brand is them.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: It makes it hard to use AI, like even harder than other people too.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, you know, I have people asking me all the time, like, does Google hate AI?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like, what's your thoughts on AI for creating content?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: And like, do you use it?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I want to create some YouTube videos about like how to use this stuff because like sponsor me with the tools.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: But also, it's hard for me to use it because like I talk similar to you, and I think that's why I really jive with the way that you show up in your business, is like I write my shit the way that I would say it to a friend.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's how people want to consume content.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's worked out really fucking well for me.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I even uh like on Instagram will have this thing where it's like five years ago, you posted this.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no, don't show me that because before I was trying to fit myself into some box because I was also really young, 22 years old, thought that I needed to look and sound professional and people wouldn't take me seriously.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I actually started wearing glasses in my headshots is so that people thought that I was smart and that I was older.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: And now it just turns out that I can read my computer far better with glasses on.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I wear them.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that like keep that in mind, I guess.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're listening to this and you're thinking about using AI and stuff like that, keep in mind that it's going to be fucking harder naturally for you to use AI when you are your business and you start marketing and writing like you actually talk.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like I even had to put in like one of my emails into ChatGPT and I was like, can you tell me what my tone is?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is my tone of voice?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just, it was like uh witty, sarcastic, educational.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think I I end up going with sassy.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, write it sassy, and then like I'll fucking spin it from there.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: But it's tough because it's like I'm not just sassy, I'm also a fucking beast when it comes to like results in educating.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you can't put me in a box.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: So like AI just makes it really, really brutal, I think, for shit like that.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: But like it makes it easier for like an e-commerce shop.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: You it's not for everybody.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just did a whole um interview with Squarespace actually about the whether you know robots are stealing my job as a copywriter.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: And the number one thing I always say for myself and for my clients, AI doesn't know how to tap into your exact personality.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe it'll become a really advanced element of technology and it will eventually.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you can give them all the samples of everything you've ever written, and maybe it'll sound like you.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: But from a client perspective, like if I was I was writing copy from someone else, AI doesn't know what to ask my client, what follow-up questions to ask, like which things are relevant from their specific questionnaire that I developed for them to be able to write them the best product.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: So those are my thoughts about AI, but you said something else that made me think about comparison, actually.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're a freelancer like us, who, like you said, synonymous with the brand, it can be very easy to compare yourself to what I call the girl bosses.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I think that this might be the first time I'm saying this publicly, but I hate the girl bosses.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot do it.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I personally don't feel this way because I already have a preconceived notion that I don't like a girl boss.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that it's easy to compare yourself to them, though.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: The seven-figure course creators, people who are started out as regular people, they will tell you they their origin story is there.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: They have an origin story and you know their origin story is there, and they're gonna tell you every chance they get.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't want to, you know, publicly talk shit about a rags to riches moment because I do think that's relatable.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I also think there's an element of like, okay, cool that you did that, but how the hell could I do that?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Type of, you know, it's kind of getting played out in that way.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't want to discount any of their success.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: However, there are some brands out there that look like there's a faith of the brand and they're, you know, doing everything, and that's the freelancer and they're synonymous with the brand, but they have a whole ass team behind them and they've given up control.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: I actually um commend them for doing that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: I could never do that because I'm a psycho control freak.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: But these people, it's easy to compare yourself to them.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, the seven-figure course creator, the person with the number one podcast or the best-selling book or whatever, who outsourced their content.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like my audience would fucking know.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would never be able to do that because they would be able to tell.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: I recently had somebody um completely plagiarized my newsletter, like straight up copy and paste word for word, take it, send it as hers.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I loved you talking about this on Instagram.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Sarah went off.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, if you're not following Sarah on Instagram, please do it just for entertainment and entertainment purposes.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: There was like a bunch of people that were like plagiarizing your entire website, and you straight up like called them out and tagged them on Instagram, but like you weren't the biggest asshole.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, shame on you, whatever.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, yo, I'm laughing so much.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that like you love my words.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just change your website shit?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was like, I mean, it's cool that you like me and my personality enough to take that.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know what they always say, like it's the best form of flattery, blah, blah, whatever.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so obviously you liked it.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, thanks for verifying to me that it's good.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: I already knew that, but cool.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was laughing about it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was could in shock, couldn't believe.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually talking about in the story I just started, a different element of plagiarism.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, two people did steal my exact website coffee, which is hilarious.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: One girl is from California, okay?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm from Massachusetts.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: On my website, I talk about being an aspiring Cape Cod summer resident because my number one goal in life is to buy a beach house uh in this specific place in New England that I grew up going.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: Miss girl, you're from San Diego.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you saying you're an aspiring Cape Cod summer resident?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: You don't even know where that is.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: That is on the other coast, okay?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: You don't play tennis, you don't like Reese Witherspoon.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think maybe you do.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like the things that they're taking are not that outlandish, but when you put them all together, you're telling me you happen to like Cowboys, the Savannah Bananas baseball team, Cape Cod tennis, chocolate brownie batter, and you're a toddler mom, and you're also the same age as me.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there is no way you also feel passionately enough about all those things put on your about page as wild.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: But, anyways, the thing that I was saying before, this girl, like I said, plagiarized my entire email.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: I do keep my newsletters um on an archive, so they're all public.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you subscribe, you can go back and read them.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, she just copied and pasted it from there.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody forwarded it to me, and I was like, this is a story about my life.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I went through that thing that you copied.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: I talked about liking something for a decade.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was giving specific details, and I was just baffled that she literally stole the exact content, like that I lived, like a life story of mine.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: It was crazy to me.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the point of the story has nothing to do with the plagiarism.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the fact that she outsourced her newsletter and wrote it in first person, wrote it, but took it and pretended like she wrote it in first person.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I was like, yo, you can't take my newsletter, my hat, my life hack.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I send like the legal notice, but right before I send all the legal shit when I'm calling somebody out for plagiarizing me over email, I say, Why do you think it was okay for you to do that?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I go mom on them.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I am a toddler mom, by the way.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: I put on my mother hat.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: I say, Why do you think it was okay for you to do that?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because then they give me an answer too.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's so embarrassing.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, I'm so sorry.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've never like I'm ashamed.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've never done this before.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like they they feel like they have to answer to me for real.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, which they should.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you feel like that was cool?
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: That was weird of you, strange behavior.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: But so, whatever, I respond to this girl and she goes, Oh my god, I didn't even know.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I outsourced my content creation.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm I'm talking to this person right now.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Bitch, you're a copywriter.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing outsourcing your newsletter that you're writing in first person and signing your name to?
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: My audience would know in one second.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that it's hard to see other people like pop off and succeed and launch to success and make six and seven and eight figures on these crazy things they're creating.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, but why can't I get to that point?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's because you're busy being the person creating the content.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of my mentors recommended a book where this man, I wish I could remember the name of the book for you, um, but this man calls it tapping into your queen be role, like the one thing that you can do that nobody else can in terms of like delegation.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I find it very difficult to figure out what doesn't fit in that queen bee status.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like everything to me feels like something I want to touch because I'm so deeply connected to my audience.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm listing this as a flaw.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like I wish that I could outsource the way some people do.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think that there's a very nuanced relationship between authenticity and like giving up pieces of control.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's very hard to find the balance between the two of those things.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's something that I still navigate.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I do almost everything still, I barely outsource anything.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that stops some people from being fully connected to their brand because they feel like if they were to go all in and nobody responded to it the way that they want it to, or it didn't work out the way that they want it to, then they feel embarrassed by that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, I showed up as my authentic self and nobody liked it, and then I still wasn't a girl boss.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that it might be one reason people hold back from being their true selves.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I also think with the rise of threads, like you can't really be popular on there yet.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like you get your Instagram followers imported.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: You have everyone starting from a similar, you know, vantage point.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, people that had a million followers on Instagram are gonna have way more threads followers immediately.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: But when you see something on your feed, you don't see their follower account, you don't see anything but their little tiny picture and what they're saying.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's why people are viewing it as an opportunity to like level the playing field a little bit.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like everyone's new to this app, and so it feels like a reinvention period for them, or maybe they have the opportunity to finally like get their voice heard in that way.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: But those are my thoughts about that.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, you're incredible.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: You've had such a lot of like really um like mic drop moments, and I feel like we just like move on to the next mic drop moment.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is jam-packed.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm you said something I want to rewind a little bit that I think is really interesting, and I can't get over it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you said when people are getting started, you recommended not starting with Instagram, and I thought that was really an interesting idea.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the point you made especially was about you're focused on your growing your followers, you're not focused on growing your business.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is very sage wisdom.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it also kind of messes or like fucks up your message, like you're so focused on what will make the algorithm happy and how can I craft my message around pleasing this algorithm that you disconnect.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's hard to know like how to show up authentically, you know.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think if you stay focused on the business, and the business is me, and that that kind of like what is my voice, and and that focus or frame is so much more powerful than trying to please someone with your content, and so you're you're pleasing yourself versus pleasing an algorithm, and I think that's really, really powerful.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm just like blown away by your confidence.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's incredible.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you and Mariah are both very like confident naturally confident people, and I'm just gonna share it with the world.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I'm the opposite, you know, like I'm trying to build my confidence muscles.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty confident myself these days, but I'll say like some for our listeners who maybe feel like they didn't come out of the womb just like on the shit.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you what is your recommendation when you're working with clients who really do struggle?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was like safety issues.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did not feel safe, like being seen like that from you know, millions of things.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like the healing journey I went on.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: But tell me how you like work with clients who aren't just like confident as hell and want to get their message out there and maybe are a little bit more reserved or um like private.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Interrupting the conversation real quick to give a shout out to this episode sponsor, the contract shop.
• 40:16
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• 40:24
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• 40:30
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• 40:39
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• 40:41
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• 40:49
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• 40:59
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• 41:03
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• 41:12
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• 41:32
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• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's take you back to the episode.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that in working with clients that feel like they can't show up authentically as themselves, there's a couple things that happen.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of people are attracted to my website copy, right?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's the whole point.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: You read it, you like it, you think you're my friend because you probably are, you know, if you're inquiring.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: We get on a discovery call, we have a great conversation.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: I treat everybody like they're my friend, I treat everybody like they're the most important person to me when I'm talking to them.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and from that first interaction, I treat them like they're important.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's necessary for building confidence.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's also necessary for building trust.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I do everything to make them feel like they can have trust in me.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I overcommunicate my process to them.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: I explain every single thing that's gonna happen when we work together.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna explain what's possible for them when we work together.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that people like when they're not a competent person.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't say that as a negative thing.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't think confident people are like should be regarded more highly than potentially insecure people or people who are not as forward about their confidence.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm fucking annoying, like with the confidence thing in general.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: Most people who are outwardly like expressive and you know, oversharers and just don't see an issue or don't feel nervous about sharing certain things, like are annoying.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I will be the queen of the annoying people.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: That is fine.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't want to come across as somebody who's like, well, if you're insecure, you're a little babyback bitch.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't feel that way.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like you can, I feel like you can get through the insecurity without reaching a point of like screaming from the rooftops that you're the shit.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: So when I'm working with someone, I think they like the comfortable presence of being with a confident person.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: I've noticed actually in my friendships that I'm not friends with many people that are like me.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm friends with quiet people.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm friends with people that like um, you know, not having to speak up if they got the wrong order at the restaurant because I will do it.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm friends with people who have like really great creative ideas, but they prefer to be more introverted.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the way that they are.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I noticed that I gravitate towards that as somebody who is like outspoken, and they gravitate towards me as somebody who, you know, is like.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Outspoken than I am.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I noticed that with my clients as well.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: And at first, when these people started being attracted to my content, I was like, why the hell are you picking me?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like I had a client recently who was like, I don't really want to put you know information about myself on my website.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Girl, I'm so sorry, but you have to.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you what am I gonna write about?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then you're cat.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we have to talk about you.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's the point.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don't you want people to hire you?
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and I wasn't, you know, that mean.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: I said it in a nicer way than that.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: But for them, it's aspirational because they are hoping that they will like get a piece of the confidence, right?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I'm around somebody that I want to emulate, I am naturally gravitating towards their energy because I like that piece of them.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I like, for example, one of my really good friends just came to visit me um on Cape Cod.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Cape Cod is giving Coastal Grandmother, Nancy Myers movie, Diane Keaton.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: My friend that came to visit me is New York City gritty cement skyscraper.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: But she we were talking about it, we were there and I explained her as cement.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sand and she is cement.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh she is New York City sidewalk.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: I am like seaweed.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: So she came to visit me, and I know that she loves anything that's a vibe.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: She likes anything that's a solidified vibe.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like if she went to Nashville, she would know who to be there.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: If she went to, I don't know, Canada, that's my favorite place, she would know who to be there.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's a solidified vibe, but she doesn't like going someplace where there isn't like a predetermined aesthetic for her to like fit into, right?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we're on Cape Cod, and I at the end of the vacation asked her, I was like, so what did you think?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did you like it?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And she was because she's like leather jacket, like I don't know, undercut, like artsy, but I'm like trying to explain the opposite of me.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we're opposites, obviously.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I asked her, Did you like, you know, did you like your experience here?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Yeah, I like anywhere that there's a solidified vibe.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: I really it was fun to be Diane Keen for a weekend instead of my typical, like New York City actor, grunge, punk rock queen that I am.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when she said that, we both had the realization that even if outwardly you don't portray a certain aesthetic, a certain vibe, a certain personality, that doesn't mean that inwardly you don't want to like cosplay that for a second.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel the same way about people who aren't as outspoken or confident, they can show characteristics that come across that way sometimes.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they like to be around people that have that vibe.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love to go be a New York City girly for a weekend when I visit her, and she loves to be like the coastal grandmother coming to visit me for a weekend.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we gravitate toward each other because we're opposites.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel the same way about my clients being attracted to me if they're opposites as well, um, because it's something that they want to, like it's aspirational.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, it's something that they want to attain.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so to answer the question that you asked three hours ago before I went on my tangent, I think the things that I do are make them feel confident in me, help them trust that I'm going to deliver a great product for them.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I am their hype woman.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm like, no, you need to charge more.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're worth way more than that.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm telling them, like, why wouldn't you just say that?
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'll ask someone to explain to me what they do in layman's terms, or I usually say, explain it to me like I'm stupid.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's my prompt, my very professional prompt.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they tell me something amazing and great and perfect, and they're like, but but like you'll make it better.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but we can't like say that.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: Girl, why?
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we can.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: That was literally perfect.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Let's use that.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: You just explained it to me in the best way.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I will like get excited about the things that they're sharing with me and the possibility.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's my favorite part about my job.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: I got very excited about the possibility of a story, the possibility of a message, the possibility of somebody's brand being beautiful.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even this morning, right before this, I was on a kickoff call and somebody shared a competitor of person with me.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, but hers is just so great.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, your design is gonna be 10 times better than that.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Are you kidding me?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like the copy will be great.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was just pumped about them being great eventually, like, you know, once we finish the project.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that really instills confidence and makes them feel better at themselves.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like you're hearing information about yourself that you maybe knew, but you didn't realize other people felt that way when you have a copywriter extract your story.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even you just now, you're like, You're a fountain of ideas, and like I knew that, but I would never have said those exact words, and I never would have been like, wow, I'm a fountain of ideas.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: But like, yeah, I am, and now I'm more confident because you said that.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that like those examples are extremely helpful, and it also points, I feel like, a little bit to the fact that like confidence is situational.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I'm confident in my business, I'm confident in this podcast interview, which to be honest, sometimes when we're interviewing people, y'all can probably tell listening, I'm like, well, at least that's how I feel.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Of I'm just like, oh God, I don't even know what I'm saying.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I'm not always confident.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like this just made me think of it like you were mentioning, like when you're looking at your friends and you're looking at your clients, that like you're the most outspoken one.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, for me, I have a lot of outspoken friends.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: And when I get around my really outspoken friends and we're all like lollygagging, having a grand old time, I'm actually usually the quietest one.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not because I'm not confident, it's because I also like to observe things.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that it's interesting that we always try to put confidence into like this massive bucket when like as humans, we are just so multi-layered that confidence is situational.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: But this also brings it back to what you mentioned in like the very beginning of the conversation of like it's easier to have confidence in your business.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier to have confidence in your message when you give a shit about what you do, and like when you're excited about it.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like excitement and like magnetism in what you're saying, what you're selling, what you're doing for people, that comes from the confidence.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like a lot of people will come into this online business space and they'll be new and they're like, I'm a brand designer, and like they'll end up watering down their message to fit in with everybody else because they're under the surface, they're not confident in their skills yet.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like not that you have to tweak your message and find the perfect thing to say.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually that like you need to have like outward uh like testimonials or like reviews or case studies or like proof.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: You need fucking proof.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the the medicine to self-doubt so often is like having proof to look at.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of what Shay offered to you.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like me and Shay notice this in conversations too, where it's like we try to be very intentional of like gassing each other up on our zones of genius.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because now you're hearing proof through the lens of somebody else, because so often the shit that we're good at, like you're saying, like with your with your clients, the shit that we're good at, we just overlook it.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you mean?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's fucking good at this.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not the only one.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think just being able to have people reflect back to you.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think like working with clients and having a questionnaire and like having a conversation and like feeling like you're heard, yeah, that does help build up your confidence in certain arenas.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like that's just that's a huge thing, especially with hype marketing, right?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of people are out here trying to fucking fake being excited.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, I love my group program, it's so cool, but it's like it falls flat.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yeah, I feel like you don't.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you don't fucking like it.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you fucking hate it actually.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then six months later, they're like, my group program flopped and like it was the worst idea.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was unaligned, it was blah, blah, blah.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, like with business testing and tweaking, like we have to throw shit out and we have to use this as an experiment.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like finding that situational confidence in the shit that you care about, I think that it helps you strengthen your message in whatever way that means for you.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's my long-winded perspective.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think that a lot of people, like you were talking about before, trying to fit in waters down with whether they're realizing it or not, waters down their own message.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: And also, of course, I agree with the proof thing.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a whole test, I mean, whole testimonial, a whole freebie about testimonials and the importance of social proof, especially on a website, blah, blah, whatever.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: But in the beginning, you don't have any of that.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: So showing up without that feels difficult.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: And like we've talked about a few times, building your following instead of building your business will completely shift your perspective for validation.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have none.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if you do that, not only do you not have proof and you don't know what to say and you're watering down your message, you're paying attention to the wrong metrics.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're paying attention to the wrong things that don't matter right away because a follower account isn't gonna pay your bills.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, you can have 10K on Instagram, but you won't have 10K in your bank account if you don't focus on your freaking business.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: But when you were talking about um you guys guessing each other up in conversation, this is something that I always do.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just saw TikTok about it and now I'm like irrationally mad that I didn't make it first because I've been doing this since I popped out the womb.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not kidding you.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: I never hold a compliment in.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: So if I think, if I'm walking down the street, I did this literally yesterday.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was walking down the street, Provincetown, Massachusetts, some random lady, she's probably 70.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: I stood in front of her path and I said, Oh my god, you look so cool.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because in my head, I looked at her and I was like, she looks really cool.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: So why wouldn't I want to tell her about that?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: I always tell people if I think something nice about them, if I think of somebody, I'm gonna text them and say, Hey, I was thinking of you, hope you have a good day.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Simple as that.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: People don't realize how much that can impact somebody else's day, somebody else's mood, somebody else's confidence.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like the joy on that woman's face when I just told her, Hey, you look cool.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: How many words is that?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, you look cool.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's four words.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: It took me less than four seconds to say that to her.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: I probably made her day.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: If somebody said that to me, they would make my day.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're looking to boost somebody else's confidence, give yourself a little warm and fuzzy on the inside.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would recommend not holding in a compliment because people really, really appreciate it, especially when it's unexpected and from a stranger, but it doesn't have to be a stranger.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it can be something simple.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a little, it doesn't boost your own confidence.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe it does, but it'll boost theirs, and you guys should all do it.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a good tip.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Never hold in a compliment.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I like that concept I've always talked about, even in business, the idea of watering, are you watering your relationships?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so I am always just trying to, even if I just like just like reach out to people or just like the littlest things, like you said, it takes four words, you know, to make someone stay.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I always think that like those little things are really undervalued or like underappreciated.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I want to go back to something you said.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like, and let's talk about this.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: You made a really good point about thinking about your target market, because that was something I've never really pulled the dots together on.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you're exactly right.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times you hear the advice like, oh, you are your target market and talk to you.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not really true.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's almost like a bit of like um opposites of trust dynamics.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's situational.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's definitely not.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I, when I'm thinking about people I want to hire and I have hired in the past, it is always they are giving off an energy that I want to emulate more of in that sense.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am literally like, I see that I don't have this and I you have it, and I would like to have it.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: So like let me absorb this.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that is what's going on there.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of you know, sales calls and blah, blah, blah.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: But at the end of the day, that's what it is.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like thinking about um, and honestly, that's probably hard to see about yourself.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: So getting other people's perspective on like what what is that energy that you give off that people are trying to sip up and like um and how how do you package that up, which I guess is exactly what you do with clients, right?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: I also think it's very important, especially if you're a service-based business owner, and I will um edit this for if you're not a business owner and you're just listening to this podcast after, but if you offer a service or you do something for someone, always ask them for feedback.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people shy away from doing this because they're like, oh, I sent them the deliverable a week late.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're gonna give me a one-star review.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: So what?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they're gonna say something great about you, you don't know.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I have so like I mentioned before, I have a whole freebie on my website about asking um for feedback to get great testimonials.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not only that's not the only reason why you should ask for feedback.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: Asking for feedback might give you insight into something you didn't know you were good at.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't know I was good at explaining things in a way people could understand, or like I did in the back of my mind, but I never said it like that, or I never considered that fact about myself because it was kind of a given.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of things happen in our brain where like, well, yeah, obviously.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I write websites for a living, like, of course, that's good.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: But when somebody else articulates the thing that they want to work with you because of, or the reason why they had a good time with the project, or the reason why they liked you, you might not be aware that you are like putting that energy out there.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's the best thing about you.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that it's really essential to ask for feedback.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something you can do in relationships as well.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not a business owner and you just really like Mariah and Shay and you're listening to this podcast and you want to be a more confident person and you're not showing up online for any reason, you can ask your friends like a question like that.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, what if you had to describe me to somebody that what would you say?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can text your friend that.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's not weird.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: When my best friend recently, I don't even, I'm I'm about to tell a story that I probably shouldn't have brought up.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, like trigger warning if you don't want to talk about nudity.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, my best friend texted me the other day and she goes, What's the first thing you would say to someone, or not say to someone, say to me if I just woke up from a coma.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I said, you know, you only have one friend and it's me because she always jokes, everyone's just an acquaintance and I'm her only friend, which is not true, but she just pretends like it is.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, like some other random things about her.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, she always jokes that she doesn't want to live her life to the fullest.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's like a dating app profile prompt of hers.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: She said, It says, You should not go out with me if and she literally says, You want to live life to the fullest because she fucking doesn't.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: She doesn't want to go hiking or dirt biking or whatever you weirdos in Arizona want to do.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I told her that, and then she said, again, trigger warning, mom, dad, if you're listening to this, fucking stop it right now.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: So she can't believe I'm about to give this information on the internet, but like, whatever.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna water myself down for you.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_02: So she told me this is the first thing she would tell me if I woke up from a coma and didn't know anything about myself.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, You send the best nudes.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Thanks.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really great, really happy that you just think that's the one thing you need to know about my personality.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's a funny conversation starter to just ask your friend a random question.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you'll find something else out about yourself that you didn't know before.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, that's that's hilarious.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's funny because actually my friend last year was having a really tough time with some stuff.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like trying to, you know, like personal development and like self-development, with which, like, you know, get a girl.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she ends up texting me and she was like, Can you give me three things that you think that I do really well and three things that you think that I should improve on?
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, This is ballsy, bitch.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who are you sending this to?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you better only be sending it to a select few people because like sometimes we don't need to know how other people view us.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I took, I took that, like I took these very seriously.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, listen, I'm not just about to give you like a fucking two-word answer here.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're one of my best friends.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna like, I like sat like I was contemplating the meeting of work.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like I sat with it.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I ended up saying, like, hey, one of the things that I think you should improve on is that like when I feel like you're talking to me, you seem distracted.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so it feels like you're not actually listening to me.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then it feels like you don't value the conversation or our connection and whatever.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so she was like, after reading all that, whatever, she was like, Thank you so much.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is really helpful.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: She ended up sending it to another friend who just said like fucking three words in every response.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, we all basically said the same thing.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're very distracted when you talk.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like it was just a light bulb moment of like, oh, that's what they think.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we weren't like, you're the fucking worst friend in the entire world.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we always think that people are gonna say like the worst things ever and completely gut us.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like we said a thing and now she's been a lot better, or like even together, she'd be like, you know what?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm distracted during this conversation.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: And she like put her phone down and I was like, Oh my God, I love you.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, thank you so much for taking this into consideration.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the same thing with our clients.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I will hound clients in a very loving way for a testimonial, or like when I have a workshop at the end, I was like, I am going to slide so deep into your inbox asking for feedback on this.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I'm gonna move into your DM and bring you a tent.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like exactly, but it's like it doesn't even have to be like quote, testimonial for my website.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what you loved or like what you fucking hated about it.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, please tell me like what I could be better.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time, it's literally people gassing you up.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like, oh my god, thank you for this.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: This was genius.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, do yourself a favor, ask for those testimonials.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because like if you need a pat on the back, that's for you.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: You said something that I really think it's important to mention when you said about your friend who asked for the feedback and you said you better not be sending this to everyone.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think that something people get caught up in when they are marketing themselves or putting themselves out there, even if you're just like a girly with a TikTok account, you don't even have a business.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: People get caught up in other people's opinions of them when they don't matter.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: What somebody else thinks of you is irrelevant to you.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: You never need to know what some random Joe Schmidt off the street thinks about you.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he thinks you're fucking ugly.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what?
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're beautiful.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: He sucks.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like that does not matter at all.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I think specifically in marketing, too, though, people get very um nervous that somebody isn't gonna like that.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I like I said before, my dad getting scared that I swear on my story.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody out there is clutching their pearls, so nervous and stressed that I'm posting these things on the internet, all like, oh my god, how could you talk about an ass chat on the internet?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: That is so inappropriate.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: That is so rude, crass.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Shut up, Karen.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to talk to you anyway.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of people get nervous to say something that they really want to say or something that they know like their ideal audience would really laugh at or really resonate with or really appreciate um about their personality and they don't say it and they never have the opportunity to connect with the person because they're too nervous about what the person clutching their pearls would think.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like me, for example, I talk about having ADHD a lot.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was diagnosed in adulthood two years ago.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as soon as I got the diagnosis, I was like, oh my God, my life makes so much sense.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_02: But stigma around people that have ADHD is that you know, you're you're a neurodivergent person, you are dumb.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's a stigma that unfortunately exists around um these disorders.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what to call them.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I'm late to the game, guys.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't know how to ADHD, I don't know what to say.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_02: So at first I was like, should I share about this or not?
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are people gonna want to work with me if they're gonna find out that I am like struggling to open my laptop some days because the squirrel inside my brain is running on a hamster wheel and she doesn't want to get off it.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I that's a literal chemical in my brain telling me, don't fucking open your computer.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: Are people gonna want to work with me if they find out that's the case?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: I sent a newsletter about, you know, how I struggle with ADHD and how I manage it as a business owner.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because as a single mom and a business owner, it is very difficult to struggle with something like that.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, you know what, fucking whatever.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna just see.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, the parents nervous.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm making it sound like I have helicopter parents.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: They just follow me and give their opinions.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really don't have helicopter parents like that.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: But my mom refuses to acknowledge the fact that I even have ADHD.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, you don't have that.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Oh, did I get a professional diagnosis twice, Gail, or what?
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_02: So people like that, she made me nervous to say something.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, should I not mention that?
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: I never got so many responses to an email in my life of other people saying they struggle with it or people that don't even have it, saying that they really respect me for sharing it, that I articulated my struggle with it really well, that it's, you know, they're viewing it as a superpower based on the things that I was sharing about it.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone was so kind, everyone was so nice.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a client from that email, multiple actually.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I never would have had that opportunity if I didn't have the confidence to share it.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that an important note if we're talking about not watering yourself down is also being willing to be vulnerable and accept the fact that not everyone's gonna like you.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I said, there are people that think I'm fucking annoying.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: That is fine.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: That is totally fine.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you on some days.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: So considering the opinions of everyone could be damaging.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: So make sure that when you're sourcing opinions, not to like only fill yourself with the good news, obviously, because that's damaging as well, but make sure it's people that you trust to give you an honest answer, people that have actually worked with you, or people that you like, like Mariah's example, like a person that's actually best friends with you for real.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's important to not internalize everyone's opinion of you and find a way to determine what is correct and what you agree with and what is something that you want to, you know, resonate with and make part of your identity.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's something really important here.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm thinking of that Brene Brown idea of just like um like only taking feedback from the people who are out in the arena with you, like in the fight, not the people up in the stands.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think you really have to be your point is right on.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be, we've had another podcast guest talk about this as collecting the points.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: You need to collect your points.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's how you get to the next level.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so you need to be asking for feedback and testimonials.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was the business owner at the beginning that did not want to.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was so afraid, and what would that mean, you know?
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: But it's so important because you get the feedback on yourself and you also build your confidence, which allows you to step into the next thing, right?
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the other side of that though, that you have to remember is you don't have to take everything in.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to listen to everybody.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay if you have bad clients that are unhappy.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean that you are a bad business owner and you're gonna have haters that maybe you didn't even ask for feedback and they gave you some, and you don't even have to let that shit in.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can just like haters.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can just let it fall, right?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think there's like have some consciousness or awareness around the feedback.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: Are you is this a from someone that you trust who you know it's coming from a good place?
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: They sat with it as if it was a college assignment and they gave you a thoughtful answer, or is it someone who spent two seconds with it, right?
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think having that lens on is really important to not get too wound up about this kind of stuff.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it's important to get wound up about in the right ways, if that makes any sense.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: Something you said about collecting the points, it's not the same exact sentiment, but it reminded me.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_02: My mom gave me this advice.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: My mom is a director of HR for a big insurance company.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_02: She was given this advice at some point in her career to keep a folder of all of the praise that you receive.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, in her scenario, of course, that's corporate as fuck, people emailing her like her reviews, saying what she did well, all of that.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I take screenshots of every Google comment on the copy draft, every DM that I get that's nice, every newsletter response that I get, any positive feedback, I keep it in a folder called Praise, Smiley Face, on my desktop, and I have another one in my email.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really nice to be able to go back and A, if you're looking for a specific element of feedback to potentially share, great, then you have it.
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and B, just hype yourself up like that.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I would recommend making a folder either on your desktop or your email of positive feedback, even if it's just something that made you smile, like something like where I was saying, not necessarily for a testimonial to be shared publicly.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like people respond to my newsletter and say, like, this was so funny, it made my day.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm not gonna share that.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really like a great quote, but it made me happy.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I put it in the praise folder.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like that's a good little nugget to keep with you if you don't do that already.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a folder and I encourage everybody to start it because if you're like me, you're like, oh, I'll remember and I'll come back to it later.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_00: You won't remember.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: And when you need it on a down day, when you need it, you want it to be there.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: So like I always just grab a screenshot, throw it in the folder.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I make it as easy as possible, but I do try to grab it as soon as I see it.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do that, Mariah?
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: But it's funny because I didn't know.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, well, it's funny because I have a testimonials and feedback folder in my email, but it was literally only like like testimonials.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, here is your review.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Where when we were working with Ash Burnside that's been on the podcast, she was like, Bitch, do you have like a sunshine folder on your desktop that you were scared like everything?
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: We want everything, everything, everything.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yes, ma'am.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: So now I am a lot better at doing that and actually taking a second to look at it because I do think that it's very helpful.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to go into something just because I've been, me and Shay have talked about it.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: I literally just had a conversation with a friend the other day.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: We were because we've both been networking a little bit more.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we realize is that everybody's like I help statement sounds the same.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so boring.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like either they're like we were talking about, like they're not excited, there's not excitement, or it feels flat, like it feels forced.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's part of them, maybe even unconsciously, like they're watering down their message, even with their I help statement.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, if you say something like, I am an online business coach that helps you improve or improve your impact and skyrocket your sales.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I've literally heard that 17 times by like 400.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm still wondering what you do.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care what you do.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because I feel like these coaches, you know, they're trying to be helpful.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like depending on the stage of business, you do need to like really clarify like, what do you do?
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you help?
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: All of that.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like putting it into this formula, and then people are at networking events and they're like, My name is Mariah, and I help you, blah.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, that's not memorable.
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: A, like you said, I have no idea what the fuck you do.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: B, you sound like every other coach, literally in the networking room, like in a networking room, there was like six coaches.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Every I help statement sounded like copy and paste, change three words from the other person and carry on.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess like if we can give, if you have like a tangible tip of like if you're thinking about your IHELP statement and you're kind of thinking about it like, fuck man, I'm definitely watering down my message.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: It does not pack the punch or share my personality or my confidence or my excitement.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what should somebody do when they're trying to like write that?
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Any suggestions?
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I got suggestions, girl.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have ran into this issue where everybody in, like you were saying before, everybody in one industry says the same thing because they feel like that's what they have to say.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've noticed it um, not even just what they have to say, just an industry standard that makes no sense that everyone does it because they think people are expecting it.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like to me, uh photographer's website, you will always see an experience page and an investment page.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking why put it on your services page.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to have to click two similar pages to figure out the information.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: And same thing, uh, in 2021, I don't know what I did, but I only got inquiries from brand and website designers.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: I never said explicitly that that's who I, you know, solely worked with ever, but they just are flocking.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think I did like 25 brand and website designer websites, brand messaging.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know it was crazy.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and pat on my shoulder, they all look different and sounded different.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, sucking every single one of them was like strategic, intentional brand design.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's strategic.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm paying you$10,000 to make me a brand strategy document, okay, or more.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously it's intentional, you're not doing it with your eyes closed.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, please stop.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that people don't realize that you can't just say a word.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't just be out here choosing a word that sounds good.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's a meaning attached to that word.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if everybody else is saying it, maybe you shouldn't do that.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I tend to gravitate towards, and this is not going to be a popular, you know, opinion.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I gravitate towards extreme simplicity to so people immediately understand what you do.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily for me, because it's easy, that shocks people.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_02: People are not expecting you to say something so direct.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it doesn't work for every brand voice, but I'm assuming that if you like, if you're still here in this podcast, you obviously still want to keep listening to me.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Mariah and I like she said before, very similar.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you like her, I'm assuming this is probably your vibe.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna go ahead and give this advice.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_02: But being direct, like I said, shocks people because nobody's expecting you to say exactly what they want to hear, exactly what you do, because everybody else is fluffy.
• 1:12:56
  SPEAKER_02: They are a fluffer and under sandwich and they are not telling you anything real.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if somebody were to ask me what I do right now, I would say I write words that sell things.
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I do.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_02: I write the words that sell things, I write the words that go on a website.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm in a networking, um a networking group, a networking event, to me, I'm thinking of that in person.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big chamber of commerce, girly.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you subscribe to my newsletter, you'll hear some stories about me and my bizarre relationship to my chamber of commerce.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody knows what the fuck a website copywriter is in a room of like a foot doctor, uh social media manager.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the social media manager would know.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I'm saying like the one person in the room who would know, like a lawyer, a doctor, uh like the guy who makes fences.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know his name.
• 1:13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Not his name would matter on this podcast.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: I always think of his literal name, I think it's called, but again, why do you guys need to know that?
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, random people that are there, you know, local, the owner of the bagel in, they don't know what a website copywriter is.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not gonna overcomplicate my statement and say, I help service-based business owners, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like, they're gonna be like, what?
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like who?
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_02: What could they're gonna have follow-up questions?
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I would recommend if you're making this iHelp statement, and could number one, consider where you're sharing it and who the audience of the iHelp statement is, because my iHelp statement to somebody who gets it and knows what a website copywriter is drastically different than my iHelp statement standing in the chamber of commerce at the random brewery that we're having our monthly event at.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna tell you I write words that sell things and they're gonna say what kind of words, and I'm gonna say the words that go on a website, see, and I'm gonna show them.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm talking to somebody who gets it, like a brand designer, I'm obviously going to change my message and tailor it to that person.
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the mistake is thinking that you can only have one I help statement.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_02: You need to tailor it to your audience.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's mistake number one to avoid.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Mistake number two to avoid would be using big words that either don't mean what you think they mean or don't mean what you want them to mean or what you're like, what you're trying to convey.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and simplify it and really think about what is either the benefit of the thing that I do and how can I tell them exactly what that is?
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I help people get found on Google.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, there's Mariah's easy and done.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And um so leading with the benefit like that, or like I find the best keywords for people to target on their website.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's that's way too specific for what she does, but that's she's a fact sometimes.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um so either leading with the benefit of what you do and simplifying that, or the action of what it is that you are literally doing, like me saying I write words, um, and use that.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the two things that I recommend.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: But the directness of it all, explaining it in a way that people can easily understand is important.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I don't think the I help statement has to be I help.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, I have a client who um does everything for server, I not so serve-based business owners, business owners in general, in terms in can I speak English?
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like getting too excited to share my sentence right now.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this person does creative direction, like artistic things, brand design, email design, like visuals, photo shoots, whatever.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_02: She does it all.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_02: She's like art queen.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_02: How the hell is she gonna tell people what she does?
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_02: The name of her brand is digital brand stylus.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I always use her as an example.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even think she knows this.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: I read her website in like 2020, and I've talked about her 500 times since then because of this instance right here.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we were trying to figure out I did brand messaging and website copy for her.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_02: We were trying to figure out how to craft the statement, how to explain what she does to other people because she was like, I do everything.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_02: How can I say I'm I do photography and creative direction, but I also do email marketing and like sometimes website sign, and sometimes this and sometimes that.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just say that.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can't just tell people I do everything because I'm really good at this stuff, and I don't want them to think that I'm not because I'm doing so much.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, you know, use my beautiful professional prompt, explain it to me like I'm stupid.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, I don't know, I'm like an interior designer for your digital space.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, what?
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Interior designer for your digital space.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_02: People immediately know what an interior designer does.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: They know that they don't just put a throw pillow on a couch, they know that they do a bunch of other things to make this space beautiful.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And they, when you say digital space, you're like, okay, cool.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like what somebody would do if I hired them to make my home beautiful, except in my digital space.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: That could mean photo, video, art direction, whatever, all the things that she does.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that's perfect.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_02: So digital brand stylist, like an interior designer for your digital space.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's not an I help, because an I help for her would sound like the complaint that Mariah has.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I help business owners make their digital platform more beautiful.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Fucking so does everybody else.
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_02: But nobody else can say like they're an interior designer for a digital space because that's so obviously what Alex does.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So those are my tips.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, that you can follow them.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's so nuanced because everybody's business is so different.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_02: But be direct, be specific, consider who you're talking to, don't put too much pressure on it.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And riff for your audience.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the number one thing nobody talks about.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like everyone wants this one thing they can say over and over and over.
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, sorry, that doesn't exist.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to think who am I inviting to and what in the simple point is really important.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like this person, how can I say this as simply as possible to them?
• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I always try to like, it doesn't have to be one thing.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like just like try something new for that audience, and you might like how something comes out, and you might say it a little different next time.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I think people feel like it has to be this like, I wrote this in stone and I say it like this over and over and over again, and it will never change.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the opposite is so true.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're allowed to change it and tailor it to the context.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so true.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And just be so simple.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_00: We are all so bombarded with so much intentional strategic, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, just be so, I love this advice.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to your friend?
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_00: How could you say it so simply?
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Say it even simpler.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like that before.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually hard to be simple.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's why people don't do it.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's easier to say fluff, it's easier to say bullshit, make it a five-paragraph essay when it could be one sentence.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because when you make it one sentence, you have to be confident in that sentence.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_02: That sentence has to pack the punch that Mariah was hoping for and say the thing that captures that person's attention.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's why when I'm writing a website and it's 20 pages and I have so much information and I have testimonials up the ass, and I have great information from the client, and a whole course of theirs to watch, whatever.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Great, I'm done with that website quick.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_02: If I have minimal information and I know this person's looking for a very like streamlined, simple, clean, like minimal, minimal, minimal copy website, that's the one I'm struggling over because each word counts.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like you wouldn't believe it's actually very hard to be simple.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I understand why some people might not be able to do it, but in the scenario of an IHELP statement, you should if if you're at a point where you are saying to somebody what you do, you should be at a point where you know the answer to what you do.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe you shouldn't be in that room explaining it to somebody else.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this has been incredible.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe where we're at time-wise.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I could talk to you all day long.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Sarah.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start kind of winding down, but I just I feel like I could go back to listen and listen to this episode and just get so many gems.
• 1:19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have shared so much, like there's like sage business advice um all throughout this episode.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_00: One question that we love to like wrap up on is I'm I'm curious.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_00: What sparks your curiosity right now?
• 1:20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the rabbit holes that you're finding yourself going down these days?
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think hot take, I'm not a rabbit hole girly, actually.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't like to consume more than I create because I don't want to compare myself to anybody.
• 1:20:25
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to accidentally see what somebody else said or did and like copy it by osmosis.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's my biggest fear.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I feel like instead of what I'm going down a rabbit hole about, I think the thing that sparks my creativity is that I do morning pages every morning.
• 1:20:41
  SPEAKER_02: So writing three pages, um, long form by hand in a notebook every single day.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have three pages worth of things to say, fucking yeah, you do figure it out, keep writing.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's the number one thing I do that like sparks my creativity.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: But in terms of curiosity, I think because I'm such a fountain of ideas, as you say, I have so much going on in my fucking squirrel brain that there is like no extra room right now for like more things.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't let myself be curious about more things because I don't have the time to create all the things that I already want to do.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm interested right now in perfecting the things that I do have.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually very difficult for me to streamline the things that I want to do because I'm obsessed with doing everything.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have a million things that I want to accomplish and do and be and see and whatever that my curiosity is on a forceful pause right now.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you could say you're curious about how you can optimize, you know, like your current focus, right?
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what you're focused on right now.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great place to be.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that answer.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've had such like unique outside the box answers for all of this stuff.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's been awesome.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so tell us, I want to follow along.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Where where should like I'm sure everybody listening is in love and wants to hear more.
• 1:21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know we can find out.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Don't tell me that.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, tell us where we can keep in touch.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so if you really want to fall deeper in love with me, I have had two separate men tell me they fell in love with me after reading my about page.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So go ahead and check it out for yourself.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's between the linescoffee.com.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure Marianne and Shay will be kind enough to put it in the show notes for you.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you link to that in your dating profile?
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, you know what?
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not filling out this dating profile.
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just fucking read my.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I have a story.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, okay.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I for this podcast, I've purposely added extra time on my calendar because I knew that I would go over the time.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_02: I would I don't know what you guys do, but I know for a fact I could go on, like Shay was saying, for another four hours.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really sorry, but I have a story.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_02: If you're still here, you get the tea.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I used to have a dating app profile.
• 1:22:36
  SPEAKER_02: I deleted it because I am just good at meeting people in person and I know exactly what I want in, you know, a next partner.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not interested in anything but that, and I know I won't meet that person on an app.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's just something that I know about myself.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was fun for a minute, you know, I had a good time, but every experience that I have that I really like is always with somebody that I meet in person.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, you know what?
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Fuck this app.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not only deleting the app, I'm deleting my whole ass profile.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_02: But before I deleted it, yes, I did have my about page on there.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if I so okay, two quick stories, then I'm done, and you guys can hang up on me.
• 1:23:10
  SPEAKER_02: But the first one is I wouldn't put my my URL right on the profile because, like, don't stalk me like that.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that so if somebody matched with me, my my prompt that they would always respond to was I forget what the actual like prompt to make me say this was, but I imagine having three bachelor's degrees.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um so every guy would ask me what the bachelor's degrees are in because guys love a smart girl.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I would have my canned answer that I would send every single person, like copy and paste from my notes app.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_02: I would tell them political science, sociology, and criminal justice with minors in philosophy and paralegal studies, period.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would say, and I used exactly zero of them, clown emoji.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course they would say, What do you do?
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then I would get to say, website, between the linespoppy.com.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_02: They would go there and then I would say, read my about page, scroll to the glossary.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you're listening to this, you have to now go scroll to the glossary so you can see for yourself.
• 1:24:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I would say, read it and tell me if you find any red flags, or if, you know, I'm the love of your life.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how I would pull.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even kidding you.
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_02: This worked every time.
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that was quick story number one.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_02: Story number two, though, is yesterday I was scrolling on TikTok and I saw this man post a video that was like, I'm going to a wedding in Hawaii and I need a wedding date.
• 1:24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm so single and this feels like the best option.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, let me apply.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to go to Hawaii, why not?
• 1:24:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I emailed this man.
• 1:24:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm amazing at cold pitching, by the way.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's how I got my first ever paying clients.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have a freebie about that.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's on my site if you're interested and you want to be a good cold pitch girly too.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_02: I also have the exact email I sent to my first ever paying client on my blog.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, I love a cold pitch.
• 1:24:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually a very nuanced take.
• 1:24:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't love a cold pitch anymore.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_02: But in a scenario like this, why not?
• 1:24:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I literally emailed this man and I told him that every other guy that's read my about page has fallen in love.
• 1:24:57
  SPEAKER_02: So he obviously would too.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And instead of, I'm sure everybody else that like emailed him subject the email wedding day application.
• 1:25:04
  SPEAKER_02: I my subject was a love letter, obviously.
• 1:25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like a love letter, comma, obviously.
• 1:25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then I literally said, Hey, Colin, or should I call you the love of my life?
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is how I'm approaching dating.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_02: So my about page um serves two purposes.
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thankfully, it's how I pull clients and also prospective dates.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, I have been relegated to a life of in-person dating now, and I have no more short English stories to share.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, the tattoo, first date story, I met that dude in person.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So clearly, not having a dating app profile is really not stopping me in that regard.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, if you want these stories, you can go to between the linescopy.com slash subscribe to get my newsletter.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_02: I send it every single week, every Tuesday morning.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's called the Tuesday Table of Contents.
• 1:25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I share a fucking weird ass story if I'm being honest, and also one marketing tip once a week.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I am educating about real-ass marketing content.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_02: You just also will find out about, you know, the first date I'm going on that day and the fact that that person is subscribed to my newsletter and going to read about it, or the matching tattoo that I got, or the time some random guy at the Chamber of Commerce handed me an eight-ounce glass of straight vodka and I had to drink it because I felt guilty.
• 1:26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So random things like that, you know, just typical life stories.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this week's newsletter is gonna be about how my son was selling friendship bracelets to strangers on the beach.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_02: He is four.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so just random things like that.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, if you'd like to follow me, that would be the best place to do it on my website.
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I also have Instagram at btalecopy.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, the testimonial freebie I mentioned is on there as well.
• 1:26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it would be lovely if they could put it in the show notes.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's just the same URL slash testimonial dash freebie to ask for great feedback from your clients.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that's all I have to offer you.
• 1:26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a fuck ton of shit.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad that we did have time for you to share those stories because, like, those are making me fucking giggle for sure.
• 1:26:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we will put all of those links and the information in the show notes for our listeners.
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_01: This episode was everything I could have imagined and more.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: So many stories, so many good tips.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it's so fucking good.
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we're ready to close this episode down.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_01: So remember, friends, if you have that you, not if you, because you fucking do.
• 1:27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So remember that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you in the next episode.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for tuning in and listening to this episode of the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 1:27:42
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you so much for being here.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Truly, this podcast is such a joy for us to create.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_01: If you love the conversation or you're a fan of the podcast and you want to support us in creating new episodes, feel free to head over to curiouslyguided.com.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: slash support to buy us a coffee.
• 1:28:03
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• 1:28:10
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• 1:28:16
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• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you in the next episode, you can't get a little bit of a