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13. Unseen battles: addressing post-separation abuse in same-sex relationships · The Post-Separation Abuse Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi everyone.
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the fact that post-separation abuse and indeed family violence also occurs within same-sex relationships.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: This is often something that isn't spoken about a lot, particularly in terms of post-separation abuse, because so much of the conversation around family violence, coercive control and separate abuse is very much based on a heterosexual narrative and often around men's use of control, men's use of abuse, men's use of violence.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Now, if we're talking about a same-sex relationship involving two men, obviously those elements will be there, that the underpinning of male entitlement, potentially along with other things that are underpinning that male use of abuse and violence.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: However, my focus in this conversation that we're having right now is on same-sex relationships between two women, because they are some of my clients.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: Some of my clients are coming to me after they've separated from their female partner and they share children with their former partner and there's ongoing post-separation abuse and I think it's really important that we highlight that because, understandably, a lot of the women who are coming to me who are leaving a same-sex relationship, they don't necessarily feel that they're represented in a lot of the conversation around family violence and post-separation abuse.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Again, because I think a lot of the focus is on the very real gendered nature of so much family violence, but it's important that we shine a light on the fact that there can be elements of coercive control, other forms of abuse occurring within lesbian relationships, and those dynamics don't go away when the relationship ends.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: The ongoing behaviour patterns that are existing within the relationship when the couple steal together, those dynamics of control emotional abuse, psychological abuse, potentially financial abuse and control those things often continue to play out after separation Again, particularly if this same-sex couple shares one or more children, and that's the situation that some of my clients are currently in.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: They're navigating a situation that is continuing to escalate in terms of the conflict, that there are continuing changes to the narrative from their former partner and they're realising that the things that they noticed in the relationship so things like coercive control, things like gaslighting, things like davo, so deny, attack, reverse, victim and offender then noticing that those things are continuing to play out after separation as well.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Something in particular that I've noticed with the women that I work with who have left a same-sex relationship is the way in which the relationship dynamic is used in terms to try and obtain an advantage in terms of parenting arrangements after separation.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: In a heterosexual relationship, we often see quite distinct division in terms of parenting.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: A lot of the women that I work with who are separated from their husband their former husband the majority of those women were the primary caregiver of the children, and so, in terms of talking about the primary carer, when we're trying to decide on parenting arrangements and if there's a dispute about the parenting arrangements after separation, in those situations it tends to be a lot more clear cut who was the primary carer.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: And the reason that that's important is because when we're talking about care arrangements for kids after separation, it's not about dividing up the children in a way that's fair for parents.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It's about ensuring the best interests of the kids, and oftentimes what's in the best interests of the children is to maintain their life as much as we possibly can and much the same way that it was prior to separation.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: So, for example, where we're talking about a separated heterosexual couple, if mum was the primary caregiver for the vast majority of that time, it's often in the children's best interests that that remain the case largely, and that they then spend time with dad and that's you know.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Working out how that looks practically is something that I support clients with when they're wanting help in terms of proposing a parenting plan or, you know, arrangements for parenting, in the hopes of negotiating that and coming to a compromise with their former partner.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: What I've found with women who have left a same sex relationship and they share children with their former partner is that there often hasn't been in that same clear cut division of parenting roles.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Things have often been far more equal or close to equal in terms of the amount of parenting duties that were taken on by each person.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: When the former partner of my client in that situation is wanting more parenting time, what my clients and I have been finding is a very different narrative that gets brought out by the same sex former partner in terms of their role.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: So they can be then maintaining that they have in fact been the primary caregiver and they have been attempting to minimise the role that my clients have played in the caregiving and the raising of the children, caring for the home, all of those sorts of things.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: And there's even been situations where false narratives of family violence, of accusations of family violence, have occurred and in fact that's been the reason why some of those particular clients have come to me.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: They separated from their same sex partner.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: They were under the impression that separation, co-parenting would unfold in a way that was relatively amicable.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: They were hoping that they could collaborate and that there would be not necessarily zero conflict, but that it would more or less be fairly low conflict and, ultimately, that each partner would be supportive of the children's relationship with each of them.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: And they've come to me after discovering that that's not the case, realising that their former partner has instead created a narrative that is very different from what they perceive the reality to have been so, in a situation where the parenting duties were more or less fairly equally divided, my clients have found that instead, their ex-partner has created a narrative in which they've positioned themselves as the primary carer and therefore are seeking the majority of the time with the children, want the children primarily living with them and only spending small amounts of time with my client, and so this is something that I support clients to do when they're navigating a situation like that, in terms of really unpacking that situation.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Is there any factual basis for the claim that their former partner is making?
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: If so, what is that factual basis?
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: If not, what are the facts, what is the reality and what is the evidence that we can pull together to undermine the credibility of what their former partner is saying about the situation, about the relationship, about the parenting roles of each of them.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Something that I'll say related to that is that if you are a woman who is in a same sex relationship and you share children with your partner and you're anticipating that separation is going to be on the cards, perhaps or maybe you know someone who is in that situation perhaps their relationship is really not going that well and it's possible that the relationship will end.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: It is very, very, very important I can't stress this enough that you get quality advice before agreeing to any parenting arrangements.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: This also applies not only to people exiting same sex relationships, but really just to anyone leaving a relationship.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: However, as I touched on earlier, oftentimes in heterosexual relationships the division of the parenting duties tends to be a little bit more cut and dried.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It tends to be easier to pinpoint who has been the primary carer.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: But if you are in a same sex relationship and preparing for separation or in the middle of separation, or you know someone who is in that situation, you need to be very careful before agreeing to any particular parenting time split, because that is going to create a precedent.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: So, before you agree to a parenting arrangement in which your former partner has more time with the children.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Think carefully about that, think very carefully about that and seek advice and seek support, because something else that I've noticed with these situations is that arrangements that you make in the early days, agreements that you make in the early days, can become very difficult to change later on, and even if things progress to court, depending on the length of time that a particular arrangement has been in place, courts tend to be very, very reluctant to disrupt arrangements that have been in place for any particular length of time.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: You do need to be very careful about what you agree to, especially if you have any concerns whatsoever about the capacity of your former partner's ability to parent your children appropriately, if you have any concerns about their current mental health and whether or not they're taking responsibility for that, whether or not they're seeking support.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Do they have any substance abuse issues?
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Are they abusing alcohol?
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Do they consume marijuana, cocaine, any other drug?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: All of these things are really important to consider before you agree to any particular parenting arrangement.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: If any of what I've said in this episode is resonating with you, perhaps it's hitting a lot of points with your own situation, or perhaps with somebody else.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I really do encourage either you or the other person to reach out and book a discovery call with me.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: The steps that you take early on in separation really can help to ensure that you optimize your outcome later on.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And if you have any concerns whatsoever about ongoing control, abuse, a problematic narrative that your ex-partner either is creating or may create, it's so important that you reach out, that you put in place some quality support to help with managing and mitigating any of the damage that the other person is trying to do to your credibility, potentially undermining your reality, undermining your relationship with your kids.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining me on this episode.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.