Latest / Caught on the Mike... / ERIC BASS- SHINEDOWN

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ERIC BASS- SHINEDOWN · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you are a fan of modern rock, then I am sure you are a fan of the band Side Down.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Joining me on the podcast today is one of the founding members, Co-Songwriters, producer, and bass player of that band, Eric Bass.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Eric has a fantastic solo album dropping February 28th, 2025, called I Had.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about that.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: We do go into some deep water regarding mental health.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So extra listener discussion is advised.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Eric Bass joins me today on the podcast.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great talk.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, if you are a fan of rock and roll, modern rock radio, my next guest needs very little introduction.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: He is a founding member, a co-songwriter, producer, and bass player of the band Shine Down.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: He has a solo album dropping February 28th called I Had a Name.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's got an accompanying graphic novel that's going to be coming out along with it months down the road.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm psyched about it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: You should be psyched about it.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Eric Bass, thanks for joining me on Caught on the Mic today, brother.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: What is up, man?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Good, man.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: How's how's 2025 starting off for you?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, uh, so far, so good.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Busy.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh um we you know, we we dropped a couple of Shinedown songs this month.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm messing, you know, having to do Shinedown while doing the solo record stuff.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it's been super busy, but uh but busy is good, you know.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's like uh it uh it enables me to outrun everything if I can.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I just got done saying the same thing.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've been like my email inbox has just been blowing up with publicist after publicist after publicist, and I'm like, these are good problems to have, man.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I am very blessed.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I remember just a few years back where I was like begging to have people come on the show, and now I'm like having to turn people away.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, congratulations.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: But let's let's talk about this solo album.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like I told you before we started recording, I listened to some of the new tracks.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love what you've got going here.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is a modern rock opera.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about your process behind it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, my process is is whatever it is that day.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I you know, I wish there were some like like uh I have no formula.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing, man.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh um, even when it comes down to um and I'm probably gonna jump, you told me just to be myself here.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm probably gonna jump all over the place because I'm ADD as hell.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, but but uh the um even when it comes to the engineering of records and stuff, man, like a lot of a lot of guys uh and girls, you know, kind of leave things set up.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: They have, you know, like you know, the mics never leave the guitar cabinets and and they you know they use the same drum kit on every song and same presets in the for mixing, and the you know, these knobs back here never change that much, and and they have a thing that they do.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I am a glutton for punishment when it comes to art.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't want to like like if if I get a guitar tone or something, I mic stuff up.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, once I'm done uh tracking it, I just I don't remember how I did it, you know.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I look I I know what I'm doing, so I can get it back if I need to, but yeah, I'm just saying, like, I don't really have any formula to anything.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that kind of spills over into the writing and stuff too.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's um um I know a lot of songwriters that have just this dedicated process that they go through to write.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I just I'm scared to death before I start anything every time.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, every time I go to write a song, I'm like, man, I hope I don't fuck this up this time.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was really lucky last time.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I got really lucky with those that's a string of number one songs, but uh man, this next one's probably gonna be the one that tanks.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: So uh and that's just my you know, that that that terrible voice inside my head.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, I go into every every songwriting session, just kind of, you know, sometimes it's on an acoustic guitar, sometimes it's on a piano, sometimes I've got a riff already worked out, sometimes it's just you know, sit down and think of a melody, you know.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um with what happened with this record was was um we were touring on the attention attention record uh in I think it was 2018, we were in Europe, and um I had just gotten done with the workout in the room and in the hotel room, and I'd listened to to Biohazard State of the World Address, which is a record I had to listen to in a minute, but uh uh at the time I was like, oh man, yeah, I forgot how much I love this record.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I I don't know if that plays into what happened, but um I got done with the workout and and this voice that's not mine spoke to me and said, Hey, you might want to write this down.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that might sound if anyone's never had that experience, it's probably gonna sound weird.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you've had the experience, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was not me, you know, it was not me.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I sat down for the next two hours and wrote down this story that would become actually the prequel to this graphic novel that I wrote.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote this sort of, I didn't know it was an origin story at the time, but I was just writing down what came to me.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, as I got deeper into that writing process, I realized that these characters that came later in the story were more interesting to me than than the characters I'd started with, um, some of which appear in the, you know, in the in in the in the story that we're telling.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, that that set me off on on a on a uh um, you know, when we were writing a graphic novel too, you're writing, it's very much like writing a movie script.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's very dialogue driven.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's entirely dialogue and art driven, I guess.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's really no uh, you know, um, but I decided to put a narrator in this thing, so that made it even more even more weird.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: We can get into that later.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh um uh fast forward to you know some more touring on attention attention, I started you know messing around with some songs and pro tools on tour and in hotel rooms and in dressing rooms and came up with a few pieces of music and some melody ideas and a couple of lyrical things that were sticking out to me, which is generally how my you know, if I guess if I I say I don't have a process, but if I do have something that that seems to sort of be at the core of me writing is is I will generally have like I'm not just gonna write chords.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm gonna write chords, I'm gonna write a melody.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm gonna write a melody, I'm gonna have some phonetic things that sound good over the top of them, you know, maybe like placeholder lyrics or whatever.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh but uh very famously uh yesterday by the Beatles, Paul McCartney, you know, yesterday, it was actually ham and eggs for a long time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: You say ham and eggs, you know.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: You do you just find things that to hold hold the place for you.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so uh I had that stuff going and I went to Brent and I was like, hey, are you you know you ready to start writing the next Shinown record?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Absolutely not.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Brent does not like to write on tour.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we don't we don't we don't tend to write very much music on tour.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: He he likes to kind of separate touring from from from record writing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm kind of the opposite.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like to keep it keep it kind of rolling all the time.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So um I said, well, I've got these, you know, these these ideas, these musical ideas.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I said they're kind of different, you know, and I told him that beforehand too.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know, if it was gonna be for Shinedown, it would it would be a very different Shinedown record.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just one or two things, really.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't uh maybe two or three things.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um But uh at that moment I was like, man, I really want to write some songs about this story.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, it'd be really interesting to put not really uh a record that's telling, it's not telling the whole story, you know.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like some concept records, you listen to it and you're getting the whole story in that concept record.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but basically what I was doing was pulling snapshots from the story I was writing, much in the same way I would do if I were writing a Shinedown song with in the real world.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd I I pull uh snapshots of of things that I see or have experienced that I find interesting and you know can put them into songs.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing the same thing for um for this record and uh finished out the attention attention touring cycle, came right into COVID, and and uh, you know, that gave me a good excuse to finish what I was doing.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um I finished writing this record, finished recording it, mixing it, um, and had the last mix done two days before Brent and I started writing what would become Planet Zero.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the record's been has been finished for a while.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I just wasn't sure if I was gonna put it out.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm riddled with self-doubt, I'm riddled with uh with with uh uh you know imposter syndrome and whatnot.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and it was, you know, and plus I love the record, I love that it exists.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: I made it for myself.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I never really made it with an audience in mind.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: The audience was me.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, and I I actually got to enjoy it a lot.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was like, and I've I've probably listened to that record a billion times, you know.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh uh so um yeah, you know, it it and the the the this time came up and and uh my band was and my wife were all pretty adamant that I needed to put the record out.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'd kind of held out long enough without putting it out, and they were all like, man, you know, this people need to hear this.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh, you know, I just took a leap and decided to release it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love that, man.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody takes a cursory tour of some of your social media follows and some of the other interviews that you've done, you've got a very eclectic taste for different types of music.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard you reference Ben Folds, you reference Biohazard, you referenced Faith No More, like all of those bands, like vastly different from one another.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's kind of the true mechanics of any really good musician is somebody that's able to kind of step into something and you know apply any one of those influences to the art they're creating.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a former musician myself, so no, yeah, you're absolutely right, you know.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Yeah, and and so how do those fingerprints of all your different influences find themselves in this project?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as as I'm working on the songs, they just raise their hand, I guess.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not a there's there's no conscious effort to uh, you know, I'm gonna put a little bit of this in and a little bit of that in.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, some of these songs happened with an acoustic guitar in my hand or with a guitar in my hand.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I was plugged into an amp, but um others, um, you know, look, I really wanted to, I I did have an an agenda in that I wanted to set out to make something different.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that was that was really my agenda at the end of the day.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: If I had one, uh maybe it's a bad word to use in art agenda, but but you know, you have to have something to aim for.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, when we're making look, when we're making Shinedown records, um, even though we, you know, we we explore a lot of space in Shinedown, we we we try different things, but we kind of know what we're aiming for before we even start.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, when you're doing when you when you're doing something on your own and there are no boundaries, no one's no one's going, you know, the audience expects this or you know it needs to sound this way or that way, or you know, then you know, you could just you could just wander around in that void forever and not really come up with anything.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I I did kind of need something to aim for, like I say, like an agenda of sorts.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was really like, okay, well, look, I love metal and I love rock.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, first and foremost, above all else, um, you know, those are the things that have put me where I am, and that's the school that I come from.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's gonna be what it's gonna be.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I've got all these other things I'm interested in.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love uh, you know, I I I just love music that reaches down and touches me, man, and and um whatever that is at the time, like I don't I don't discriminate.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, when I was some of these songs, I let me backtrack.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was saying some of these songs I would pick up a guitar or I'd sit down at a piano or whatnot.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: Then there are others that I would kind of come up with a part, I'd come up with a verse, or I'd come up with a chorus or a riff or something, and I'd stop and I'd be like, okay, what's like a a really cool left-hand turn that could happen with this right here?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what's something different that could take place and still be musical and sound like it belongs there?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you didn't just throw something into it, you know, just to be shocking or something.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll I would say that that probably you know 70% of this record was done that way.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, coming up with like, man, I've got this great riff or I've got this great line.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think the song Azalea, um, I sat on that uh that chorus for a long time, not knowing what to do with it lyrically or vocally.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then I uh somehow I just set up a microphone like this, and I just started just singing nonsense into the microphone, which I've never really I'd never really done that before up to that point.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I always try to figure things out before I set up a microphone.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm just gonna set up a mic and start singing, and that that that oh yeah, the devils are coming down the mountain, and that's all I had for three weeks, you know.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'd come up with, oh, okay, and then the next part and the next part and the next part.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh what you're hearing on that chorus as it's laid down is how it was laid down.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that literally, what I just said about recording that that first part of the chorus, I recorded like I think there are five or six vocals going on at one time there, kind of all singing the chorus simultaneously.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I recorded it like that, and then it just sat, and then I was like, then I then I started, you know, then I when I kind of knew what the song was about and what was happening with it, I started writing out lyrics, and then I record the next section and the next piece and the next piece, and and then you know, lo and behold, at the end of it, you you sit back and you're like, okay, does this sound like a song or does it sound like somebody that just recorded five different things over five different days, you know?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh, you know, the the the the verses on that song at one point uh I had a completely different flow, a completely different melody for them.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean I was jazzed about it, man.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was awesome.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd written down all this stuff and it was cool sounding and whatever.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the second I went to sing it, I got through one take and I was like, this isn't right, it's not gonna work.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and it had a lot of it had to do with the honesty of what I was saying and the way I was delivering it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, this just doesn't feel good to me.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to scrap, you know, two days worth of of writing and just start again from scratch.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it was a lot of that, man, a lot of trial and error, and a lot of of uh, you know, just trying to uh trying to to to you know uh put as much of myself into something as I could without it being uh absolutely boring, you know.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I love Azalea actually because I was on the treadmill listening to that, and whenever it really kicked up and those choruses kicked up, I was pressing the up speed on the treadmill.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, hell yes, this is getting this is getting me going.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: But you brought up something in that last little bit where you talked about almost like personification.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So in your process of like writing lyrics, writing choruses, writing verses, how much of this project is semi-autobiographical alongside this graphic novel that you're putting together?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it it's uh uh probably all autobiographical.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I I I I tell the story of listening back to it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a song called Good Night, Good Night, which is probably um probably the song that's most uh uh close to me, I guess, um lyrically.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um it means a lot to me.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was it was probably the most probably the one of the more personal things where I really was putting a lot of myself into it, I guess, talking about characters, but really like you know, digging into my psyche and and and and you know pretty hard.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was listening back to that song.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I was listening back to the final mix or just maybe after tracking or something, but um, I had this kind of shocking realization that I had you know probably written the most autobiographical record of my career and done it through characters.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um because as I was writing, you know, the lyrics just seemed to flow really easily.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I did just talk about the couple you know, a couple of of stumbling blocks or through things that got in the way, but you know, Azalea, that song was in and I think it ended up being really great.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was when I had to dig on a little more.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: But there are other songs that were were just everything just kind of flowed really nicely.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um you know, the the uh um so normally when you're when you're writing music and things flow like that, it means you're being really honest, at least from in my experience.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm trying to make up things and you know, it it doesn't really, it's kind of it's a lot more difficult.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I, you know, I just noticed over the writing process of the record that everything flowed really well and was just kind of coming out of me.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that should have been a uh uh sign right there, but I didn't really think about it, you know, and then I get to the end and it's like, oh yeah, like all of the things that you talk about, all of the things that you see in these characters that you're talking about are things that you actually see in yourself and you probably needed to talk about, um, but you hadn't, and uh with some of them, some of them I have, you know, song like a symptom of being human and and and you know um monsters and songs like that, you know.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've definitely talked about some of these things, but um, you know, it it really you know uh points to the fact that that songwriting is therapy in a in a big way.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're you're you're you're purging a lot of things.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I I uh you know, even though I'm writing through these characters and all of these songs are either from the character's perspective or from the narrator's perspective about the character, um, you know, uh it's still very much uh about you know my experience with with mental health neurodivergence, um uh and you know, some some trying to figure out some things from my childhood.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um I by the way, I had a great childhood, great parents, not nothing, you know, nothing dark or anything, but just trying to feel you know, I think I think a lot of us I think if you ruminate like I do, you spend a lot of time trying to trying to figure out why.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always searching for why am I this way?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I probably I probably shouldn't do that too much.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: I should probably just say this just is what it is and move on.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's what most people do, and that's why most people are productive, and I'm not, probably.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, so uh so yeah, these these these these songs ended up being very, very autobiographical at the end of the day.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but I think what that did for the record, um, you know, if I had to think about it, uh I won't say a lot, I'll say some concept records can be very wooden and very on the nose about things.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're telling you the story, and this happens and then this happens, and then this happens, and this happens, and you know, Tommy plays pinball, and you know.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: We had to quote the most popular of all time.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but but then but then there are other times that, and I think I've done I hopefully have done this on this record, where you know, you're telling the story, you're you're talking about these characters, but you're doing it in such a way that people can find themselves in what you're saying.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's really what I tried to do.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think the wall is like that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think people can listen to Pink Floyd the Wall and like f and you know find themselves in it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so uh, you know, and and honestly, man, that's not something that I that I that I intentionally set out to do.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't like, okay, make sure the lyrics do this.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just the nature of the of how I am as a songwriter, being in the band that I'm in, being in a very lyric lyrically driven band, yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I push myself with lyrics the same way that that when Brent and I or Brent and Zach and I are writing Shine Down songs, we're pushing ourselves with lyrics all the time.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's always it's always about the lyric.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if if we have to wait five days on that perfect lyric to show up, that's what we're gonna do.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: If it happens in two hours, that's fine.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's great if it happens in two hours.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but yeah, I I think that just because of the type of songwriting that I do, um, I'm very, you know, I want to find that lyric that's going to the people are gonna relate to.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so um hopefully that's what uh that's what happened on this record.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Dude, I tell you, um, as somebody that I I always quote my, you know, you're always a musician once you're a musician, but I quote call myself a formal musician, former musician.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: But through all the projects that I did over the years, every single band that I was in, and I was a singer, and it would always start off really honest and really genuine, and then it would kind of pitter off to you know, that disingenuous structure that, okay, I gotta write for the crowd instead of writing for myself.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And people can see through that.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: People that is completely transparent, and it's probably why I've I've found more success as a podcaster than I ever did as a musician, was because of that sense of honesty of you know, just putting yourself out there.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that you gain personally and therapeutically by putting this portion of yourself out there?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I do think that's very important, and I think that's a huge thing that the world needs right now.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I would say the biggest thing that I gain from it is that I I can't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Become an avatar.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um Jacoby and I, Jacoby Paparooch and I have talked about this.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: We we had a conversation about this at one point, about how, as you know, I'm I'm a I'm gonna say rock star, I'm a horrible rock star.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's a rock star for sure.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but you know, as you want to be this avatar that people want to see.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be that guy that's on stage, you want to get off stage and be that for people, right?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that can carry over into your private life and into going to the grocery store.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like like like um I think that that because I've been um and we we as a band have been so vulnerable about what we're writing about and and showing just being honest with people, you know, um not uh you know not wearing the uncomfortable suit of fame or something, you know, and really just trying to just be ourselves at all times, even on stage.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, on stage is a more elevated, amplified version of us being ourselves, but it's still us.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I never go on stage and feel like um, you know, I am extra and above and anybody.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, like I what the energy that we as a band carry on stage is one of you know reaching out to the fans and wanting them to join us in whatever we're doing.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't feel like they are um we don't feel like we're doing them a favor by them getting to see us.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like uh we we go out there with this sense of of uh of we want to experience this with you.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: We are here because of you.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: We are here for you.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, almost this, almost this uh um weird juxtaposition where it's almost like a um uh uh going out there as a servant in some kind of way.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a fun job.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And believe trust me, I mean it's still the there, there's you look, I'm still out there to be larger than life.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the point.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't go to a rock show to see somebody cower in the corner, but I guess what I guess what I'm getting around to is that um because we've been so honest with people and because we just honestly talk about everything, and I can have this conversation that you and I are having right now, um I it it diffuses that avatar, you know, and um it's allowed me to be it well, it's forced me to, and it's been a great benefit for me to be able to be myself in public.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um and honestly, man, like I mean, it what it does is it makes us like again, it makes us really boring rock stars.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: It makes us the worst, you know, we'd make the worst reality show in the world.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but look, you know, Shine Down are four dudes that that genuinely love each other, that yes, we have our ups and downs, and yes, we go through stuff internally.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't want to be in a band with anybody else at the end of the day.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we don't allow each other to be rock stars.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, you know, hey dude, shut up, sit down.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, no rock star bullshit, you know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so but but that I think that that's that's a result of uh us and me being um you know just being honest about about all of our maladies.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we we we we wear them on our sleeves, sometimes on our chest, depending on what we're talking about, you know, and and we also wear our successes that way too.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, I think it's kind of saved me from uh a cliche rock star life, probably.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one where I'm I'm putting on airs and trying to impress people with everything I have and spend money on and do and look at my clothes.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: And instead, I'm this slightly autistic kid that just wears black pants and white t-shirt every day of my life because it's comfortable, and I am radically uncomfortable in anything else, you know.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I don't even like and I like fashion, dude.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I like I like fashion, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: But like I can't bring myself to wear it.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: So but you there's a good analogy that kind of goes along with that, and you think about it in terms this is crazy, but it it'll make sense in a minute.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, the world is pro-wrestling.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like the world completely is pro-wrestling.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I try and avoid like the socio-political stuff on my show, but but really realistically, the world right now is pro-wrestling, and a lot of people don't know when the work ends and the shoot begins.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, so, you know, I know with communicating with people, and when they have to drop those walls down and expose their vulnerabilities, um they become teachers unwittingly to to the world by you know kind of spreading that honesty about themselves and it translates through art, like things that you guys create with Shinedown and what you're accomplishing or aiming to accomplish with this album.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that gives people a lot of sense of buy-in to what you are going to be doing moving forward and why Shinedown has been successful up to this point.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I appreciate that.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think uh to your point about being a teacher, um I've realized that, you know, it it took me a minute.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, like I was not immune to any of those things I talked about earlier.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like my young my younger days of doing this, um, you know, I I tried to deconstruct my life.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was putting on airs, I was, you know, I was trying to be something I wasn't.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was figuring the whole thing out.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually, you know, what I learned uh was that if I kept doing what I was doing, I was just gonna spiral into into oblivion and destroy myself.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I better figure out who I was and be that person, you know.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so when that happened, I realized my my I think my mission changed, but it wasn't a mission.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have a mission statement about it.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like I'm gonna do I am this and now I'm this.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was just sort of uh it found me, and it found our band, by the way.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just me, which is um, you know, I I really think I'm on earth to help people, and and I can do it through music and art, and you know, hopefully I can take this this uh you know Shine Downs News song 365 that we have out.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I wrote that song about uh well, Brent and I wrote it, but we we were sitting in this room.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: We we wrote uh he he was here, I was there.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and uh we we literally came up with that whole song in about three hours, man, of l lyrically.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I've had a really rough couple of years with just losing person after person after person, and uh, you know, then having injury after injury and you know, insult on top of injury, and uh kind of got to a point where I got into a freeze response.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you know what that is psychologically, but it's just where your your brain thinks that it's in danger all the time because you had so much pile on and pile on and pile on that you just freeze and you can't do anything.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got to a point where I I couldn't even I I didn't even want to turn the computer on to start a song, I didn't want to do anything.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, and and and and you know, the the the two big things, I mean there were so many, like I say, the two big things.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many I lost so many important people in my life in a very short span of time.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um my dad being um one of the one of the most important ones.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um my aunt my aunt um my aunt who was my aunt didn't have any children of her own, so we were our kids, and she lived right down the street, and we, you know, she I was with my aunt as much as I was with my own mother.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh so and and and and that wasn't even, you know, those weren't those things weren't even those two things weren't even a year apart.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: I lost my mentor, Doug McKean.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um Doug meant a lot to a lot of people too.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: He was a great engineer, um, worked on uh engineered such records as The Black Parade and American Idiot and The Sound of Madness and Attention Attention and you know I can go on and on.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but just such a great friend and a great person, lost him suddenly, you know, and and um uh so anyway, 365 was a way to take I was I I was worried because I hadn't been able to articulate any of that loss.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't I hadn't found a way to to talk about my dad at all.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I still haven't grieved my dad.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that's interesting.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just I still haven't grieved any of these people.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's strange, man.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I still like I'm just I just just push it all in, you know.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I haven't cried, you know.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just and and maybe that maybe I won't.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, maybe I never will.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I was it it it worried me that I hadn't found a way to articulate any of that and and to honor those people.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then um we weren't intending to write you know to write that song, it was just it just came out, it just it it it presented itself.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh so hopefully to get back around to what we were talking about, taking all of that sadness and loss and and um you know trying to find my footing and uh Brent doing the same thing um over the past few years, we were able to take that, put it into a song that hopefully someone else will hear, and it will give them the fact that I found a way or we found a way to articulate the pain when someone who who doesn't who isn't a songwriter that are that will articulate their pain and they'll be able to to um you know maybe process some things.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the mission changed, man.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: It went from being like I'm gonna be this avatar rock star person that you know I'm doing I'm doing pills and I'm I'm drinking all the time and you know being a terrible husband and you know uh the mission changed.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: The mission changed to one of now, oh, now you can be yourself if you're brave enough to be yourself, uh, because it's it's not easy at first to to you know to to just kind of be okay, look, I'm kind of a boring dude.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I gotta be that boring dude because that's who I am.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh you know, I'm just like I'm I'm you know, just sit in front of a computer all day and do do and play instruments, you know.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that translates into helping people, and I think that's you know, that honestly at the end of the day is what I'm here for.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: So let your friend Mike lecture you for a few moments here and tell you there is nothing boring about trying to put out good in the world and trying to make the world a better place.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of the the the it became my mission statement when I decided to become a podcaster, is like, you know, what can I do to throw a little piece of myself out in the world and tell other people's stories so I can do my part to make the world a better place during some of the most tumultuous times of modern existence.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: I will say that grief is a weird thing.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is the strangest thing in the world.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: I too have lost my father within recent years, and I spent the last few years of his life, well, a long time, estranged from him, so I didn't know how to cope with the grief process.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ironically, hearing you talk about this, um, my dad's birthday was just the other day, and I grieved like none other since he's been gone a year and a half because it hits you at the most unusual times, and sometimes some of the most inconvenient times.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm waiting on it.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know what you mean, man.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is the weirdest thing.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is the weirdest thing, and like honestly, the best thing that you can do is just not fight it and just lean into it and do what you guys did.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like turn it into something productive, like, and that's how you honor their life is by you know enlightening somebody else's.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's a that's a gift that you can give to the world um through doing that.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like that you guys have done that through um your new songwriting efforts.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man, we you know that's always what we try to do.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: We you know, we we try to wrap up um whatever's going on in our lives, or maybe a sh you know uh you know, shared experience, you know, maybe that everyone's having and trying to find a way to to um articulate it.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I often say that that uh songwriting is is trying to say something in six words that most people can't say in six hundred.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um it's a big ask sometimes, you know, to try to do that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and um you know, take an album like Planet Zero, I mean, obviously it's pretty obvious what that record's about.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we were going through a very weird time of COVID and it felt very dystopian and it felt you know uh very 1984 to me.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh um, but that shared experience, we had we were able to get you know to get these lyrics down that that that spoke to people.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the record came out at a perfect time when when we were starting to come up out of that thing, and um uh you know, just about the time that people were really getting sick of getting really sick of it, you know.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh I'm I'm really proud of that record for being able to articulate those things.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: So considering all of that, where is where is your sense of optimism right now as it is today?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because you and I also share, you know, you you talked about some of the traumatic response of losing people.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I will sit down here at the podcast desk sometimes, like minutes before I'm set to record an episode, and I will almost talk myself out of wanting to do it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, and then it's done, and I'm like, that was the best thing I've ever fucking done.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was fucking awesome, you know, and I get super excited, and it's just based on how I react.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, listening to you explain your experience, it seems very similar.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, man.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: It it's um the optimism.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh look, I yeah, I'm I I hope I don't get too heavy with this.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um go ahead, man.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: If it's too heavy, but um, you know, look, I get I'm I'm going through a really rough time right now of it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like I'm I'm not well.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'll sit in here sometimes and not do anything.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just sit in here and not accomplish anything.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do anything.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm done.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm you know, the world seems very bleak, my life seems and uh for people that you know look, what what I'm talking about here has nothing to do with external circumstances, like like like how things seem from the outside.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm in a very successful band, and yes, I'm financially secure, and these are things that I'm very blessed to be.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like I sit here and have this pity party about you know, I don't sit here and wallow in my money and just go, oh poor me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is something you know that I can't control, you know, that the that that takes over.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um uh so I you know, I I sit in here and I'm I'm I'm you know, kind of look, if I and and I and and and and those things that I just talked about honestly kind of play into it in a way where it's like, man, like I should be wait, what the what the fuck is wrong with me?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like I shouldn't feel this way, like this is this makes no sense whatsoever.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it speaks to the fact that that that whatever the depression bug is, uh, you know, it it doesn't um it doesn't discriminate, you know, it's it's uh it's there.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um it doesn't care what you know what what you do for a living.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but in those depths and in those moments, man, of like going, you know, if this is as good as it's gonna get, why am I even here?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like if this is this is how it's gonna be for the rest of my life, like I don't even know why I'm here.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know why I should keep going, you know, and I go through this this whole gamut of emotions, these you know, passive ideations about things and and uh um you know sometimes thinking way too much about ending it and and uh but I have a deal with myself, and this is what I I I sometimes I say it's not you know, I understand it's not that simple for for for people for some people, and I understand that, but for me, it is just this simple.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's um I made a deal with myself and I took that option off the table a long time ago.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, okay, look, you know, you're not going to because I've had I had a very, very close friend, very close friend who committed suicide, and you know, I still carry that around with me.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: And his mom carries it around with her, and his brother carries it around with him, and his friend or his other friends carry it around with them.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, anything but that, like figure it out, wallow in it, pull your hair out, you're gonna feel hopeless, you're gonna feel miserable, but you're not gonna do that.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what that allows me is I just realize that sometimes I have to sit in it, I have to realize the world isn't we're talking about the world being a circus right now, you know.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: That that plays a lot into it as well.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the optimism comes from you know, knowing that I'm gonna have those moments where I pull myself out of it and how how good that feels.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just to be normal for like I know it sounds weird, but just to be normal for a few days, I've had a couple of good days, man.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've had two or three kind of good days in a row where I feel uh I feel better, I feel productive.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um and honestly, man, like that's it might be a small thing, but that's where the op that's where my optimism comes from for the future and for going forward for me personally.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, look, I can't do anything about the world, man.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you know.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's another part of it though, man.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I'll look I'm not gonna get too too uh too down this the this this lane as well, but like I've come back to faith a good bit since my dad passed.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: And um I'm uh I'm a Christian, you know, and and um I find a lot of of solace in that.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um uh it's not, you know, look, I'm not one of these people that's gonna say, you know, I I hear people say, oh, you know, I became a Christian, it cured my depression.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I'm not that person.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: That hasn't happened, right?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um it gives me a light, you know, it gives me a it gives me something to uh gives me something to aim for.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just try to try to live my life a certain way and and uh um you know uh I don't know if I'm if I'm answering your question at all.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, this is a good idea.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'm just rambling about it, but uh you know, I I look man, I would love to to uh I'd love to figure it out.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to figure out what to do and to and to lift all of it and have it uh disperse and and never come back.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh maybe that'll happen one day.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe maybe one day I'll figure something out or I'll wake up or something will will take place.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh um you know, man, I just I I again taking that that that terrible option off of the table forever and ever.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna ever do that to my wife, I'm never gonna do that to my friends, I'm not ever going to pass that on to someone else.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Pass that's what they say, you know, it's just suicide doesn't end the pain, it just passes it on to others, you know.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so uh that's a that's been that honestly, man, like that's a really, really great thing that's helped me.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like even in the depths, even if I'm thinking about it, it's like, well, you know it's not gonna happen, so figure this out, you know?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like do so do something about it.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, just just removing that from the table, um you know, causes me to have to figure things out and causes me to know and and and just knowing and been through it enough to know that eventually it's going to lift and you know there's there are gonna be better days ahead, right?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: The thing about finding spirituality, no matter how it looks for you as an individual, whether it be through Christianity or some other deity or some other form, is the fellowship and the community.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think people talk enough about the fellowship and the community of things.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, if you extract the belief system out of it, just having that sense of community can do a lot for a person.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're you're you're absolutely right, man.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's sometimes it's hard to self-mo motivate, like it's it's hard to get like for me personally.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes like I've got a ton of friends, but if you ask me to meet up with them at a restaurant, I would find a million different excuses not to, but I would never regret doing it once it's done.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that weird, man?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the that's the weirdest thing.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh you're exactly right.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like that I'm I'm so like that, you know.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I don't want to do it, I don't want to do it, I don't want to go, I don't want to leave the house.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh and uh you know, like we have we have an award show thing coming up, and and I'm like, I don't want to go, man, because it's gonna be red carpets and it's gonna be blah blah blah, and that makes me uncomfortable and I don't want to go do it.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I have a feeling that if I go, I'll be glad I went, you know.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the end.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that that has nothing to do with with faith or anything, but but I mean to you to your point about community, man, it's been it's it's my my faith has opened opened up opened me up to others in the rock community and metal community and who are you know, who are believers and and you know, I do Bible studies occasionally with some of them and and call them and talk to them or text them or whatever.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, I don't think they'd mind me saying it here.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Clint Lowry from Seven Dust and and uh uh Jacoby from Papa Roach and um and Josh Sturm uh Lacey Sturm's husband Josh who fills in with with uh fills in uh for a shined down whenever we whenever I'm sick or Zach's sick or whatever you multi-instrumentalist badass you know that he is um but like because here's the other thing man it's like you know trying to find spirituality and uh uh you know find you know find solace in something greater than yourself and in a story more interesting than any that's ever been told uh but but finding it with um with people who have your shared experience you know um and and you know that that I found that really really helpful because then it's like you know all of the references I make they understand you know and we can we can kind of but the community man you're right it it's uh I I would encourage anyone who is who is um who is feeling depressed who is feeling hopeless that's a great point man something that that maybe I I haven't thought about enough but you you make a really good point finding uh finding a community of people that you can you know that's why AAA is so is so um that's exactly it is so is so um uh successful is because they they set you up with a with a support system of people you know um I also know that for uh for uh veterans um there's a uh uh foundation called the Mighty Oaks Foundation and this guy Chad Roboshow runs it and um it's very much set up like a support system you know and and uh um you're yeah so I would I would definitely encourage people to do that uh for sure it doesn't you know I I'm I'm not going to sit here and try to tell everyone they need to find religion that's not my point uh but but find a community of of people that uh you know that you can seek um you know that you can seek comfort seek comfort in and you and you can provide the same for them as well.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've got uh you know I've I've got I've got friends like that as well man like my my good friend Rob Pryor who's um a fantastic artist he did the uh he did all of the the artwork that's in my uh my album cover and uh he's done a lot I mean he's just a legendary uh you know he's become a he he started out as a as a uh fantasy artist like doing comic book covers and and uh magic the gathering cards and that kind of stuff and he he's worked his way into just being a pop culture artist and and um but uh but man he's he's always there for me you know and I know I can call him and I'm there for him um and uh Brent is like that with me too man like Brent's always there for me I'm always there for him um my wife you know um and and the other guys in the band by the way too but but you know those three people you know my wife Brent and and uh Rob are like my you know they're always on call if I need to talk and and honestly man that's probably why I'm feeling a bit better you know a bit better the past couple of days I talked to Brent the other day we talked for like two hours uh on the phone and and uh you know the way I was feeling came up and I was you know I was feel bad about it I'm like man I feel like I'm just dumping on you all the time you know but uh and he doesn't care he'll just listen you know and um so that's you know these are these are the places that that the the the light comes from you know the op the optimism comes from it's always good to take inventory about what's going on around you and check your foundation like and it sounds like you have a really good foundation whether it be through Brent your wife and some of the other people that you you're able to talk to and it makes for a good platform for you to keep doing the things that you love and feel fulfilled.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah for sure I I the one thing that I have to watch out for is is making my wife and friends my therapist.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know that's probably not uh you know because it because I think at some point it spills over into they don't know what to do right and they want to help and they have no idea what to do and it it you know it it's um you know that that can be a bit unfair right and I have to really gauge I I I I feel like I I have a pretty good gauge on it and I know when I I probably sh I probably need to back off of talking to them for a minute you know and um I'm really bad about getting help.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it that's the uh the executive dysfunction part of my my the DSM that I occupy you know is is I'm really bad about about any sort of self-care self-help anything like that.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um but I you know look I've I've you know I've I've probably been at a point where I probably need to be seeking out some professional help it's at certain times too and and uh that's that's very difficult man it's very difficult to go I've reached that point you know like yeah I like I've I'm very much of the of the I've got it handled I've got it taken care of believe me I've got it and internally I'm like I don't have it you know same dude mine manifests itself through various hobbies that I'll get into for short periods of time until I move on to the next one that's ADD as hell right there buddy it would be like how many how much money have I spent on hobbies that I did one time you know one time one and done right in and out right it's like I'll bec I'll become ultra good at something too like I'll do the thing until I'm like I'm really good at it and then like that's all I wanted out of it was to see if I could do that.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes and then and nothing ever sticks you know yes that's where COVID fucked me up if if I'm if I'm being completely honest.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I uh you know I got I finished doing the band thing back like in 2012 and then I just became a gym rat you know and I I started going to the gym all the time I started working out all the time then you know I got into a new relationship which is my second wife and um you know I so I got a little bit complacent and then I got really obsessive about going to the gym again.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: I got into great shape and then all of a sudden COVID hit and the gyms closed down and I was like I felt lost man I felt absolutely lost so I'm like it kind of threw me into my own spiral where I'm like dude what am I to do with myself why is my life like this and I started second guessing and questioning absolutely everything and honestly this podcast is a result of that this was kind of the answer to it it was like yeah okay I gotta find something to focus and you stuck with it yeah yeah it's like it's like I I gotta find something to focus my attention on and you know it's it's turned out for the better but uh dude I I I like I told you in text before we recorded like there's so many things that we have parallels to brother the the uh the dude I will have this intense like intense special interest about about some the most random thing you know and I'll just it'll be all I can think about and I don't want to think about anything else and I'll wake up early in the morning and do it and I'll do it till a till like I one of the one of the most famous things in my marriage with that was model airplanes.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I got in a model airplane building for a for a minute um and I mean I love airplanes right I love aviation but um I got into making model airplanes and I obsessively made model airplanes it was it was during an off touring cycle like we weren't we weren't touring or writing or anything and so I'd had nothing to do and I just sat at home and made model airplanes all day every day and it wasn't until my wife like she she actually came downstairs and she's like you have been sitting at this table all day every day for the past three weeks four weeks you haven't done anything you know you bathe once a week you don't like like this is all you're doing and I'm like yeah so what's wrong with it and it wasn't until she had to pull me out of that thing and dude it's I mean dude I bought airbrush compressor airbrush like all of the everything that you need to like like professional stuff to build model airplanes and I'm like watching tutorials and like like because I became really really great at it and then one day it was just like I'm like just like that I got halfway into building another airplane and I've never picked it up since all that stuff sitting in my closet and it's just I moved on to something else you know yeah it's weird how it works like that isn't it but it but the thing too like when I'm working on music which is my real passion you know is is if I'm in something man like this is something else that's crazy about this is where the autism thing plays in is I'm in it and I am I don't want to be pulled away from it.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like if if if I'm if I'm in here mixing a record and or I'm working on a record and I'm in it and in it and in it every day I'm waking up at five in the morning I'm out here till you know 10 at night and I'm just focused in on it if someone pulls me away from this like if I have to go on tour or if I even if I have to go to the doctor's office or something there's a physical discomfort yes to being pulled away from it.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm just like I panicked almost from being pulled away from it and and just it's so strange you know it's it's insane.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: But this is why these are the these are why this is why uh people like you and me and you know we're we're we're made to do creative things.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're not made to like I'm not uh I tried an office job one time early on like like you know 19 20 years old and worked for my dad for six months in a mortgage company and dude it was like I am in no way made for that.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Dude like so somehow I gave I gave two or three people mortgages.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like and I don't that's frightening like because because I don't even know if I understand what I did you know right or what I or what I had them sign but they had mortgages.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: But uh you know I'm just not built for that man I'm not built for uh I'm built for doing creative things.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I tell you what I what I did enjoy I I was a I was a trim carpenter for 12 years when I was trying to trying to make it in music and I still love doing that.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: I still love working with wood.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: I still love like I would put stairwells in houses and but see that has a creativity element to it too.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was fine with that job.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: That job was great.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: But uh never got obsessed over that one thank God but well and the world's a better place because you didn't get obsessed with it or else we wouldn't have shined out I did I I get done with work every day and I would come home and like I had a home studio at the time like in in our in our house and I would I mean I would write up there man I'd just work on music all night you know um my my poor wife dude she's she's just uh I've been with her for I've been we've been together for 30 years and she's been through the whole thing with me man and like I mean she's she's been a widow for 30 years.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's just like she's you know like she's like I'm married to the game that's love brother I'm married to the game yeah I I tell you being very left brain myself I feel like I've almost had to develop a multiple personality disorder to like one side of me attends to my creative side and the other side of me attends to my practical side uh the creative side tends to win 75% of the time or my practical side like I have to be reminded to jump back into that practical mindset but I can totally empathize with everything that that you speak on because I I'm there too.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there's more people like us than not realistically I mean I think so man I well it used to be you know attention deficit disorder and it's like I don't think it's a disorder you know it's it's a it's just a it's a different way of thinking it's a different way of like I you know my school my schooling when I was a kid was just was just you know I hate to use the word mortifying but I was I've I I spent most of my childhood in fear of like school.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I didn't I feared it like I I did because I didn't understand anything that was happening.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it I mean it was it was the most alien thing I've ever done was walking into a school and okay I'm supposed to do this but I don't even understand what this thing is that I'm supposed to be doing.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone else seems to understand what it is.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the only person here that doesn't get it and that would cause me to check out and shut down and not ever pay attention.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't ever remember doing schoolwork.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't know how I got a high school diploma.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea I think they just gave it to me you know to to get me out um but uh you know it it's but the thing is I learned later is like oh like once I wanted I I was I was I'm still am obsessed with learning like I want to learn as much stuff as I can learn.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I realized it was like oh like I'm like visually oriented like if you can visually show me something like it changes everything.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: But that wasn't what that wasn't the way things were done.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so you know yeah it's just it's it's just crazy man how uh how uh you know there's a whole subculture of people who you know right now do their kids in school that don't you know don't are going through the same thing but like the structure is just such that no this is the way we do it and you know um and and that kid's in danger of getting left behind.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's what the kids that get left behind we realize at some point is like you know especially when we get out on our own like we get we we we get out of school we're done with it now we can make our own decisions there's this sort of chip on our shoulder man and it's like oh yeah well fucking watch this you know and we and we get and we get to work on the things that matter to us and that's how you end up with CEOs and and creators and uh inventors and you know tech magnets and you know all of this stuff like that's how that happens you know I have never met somebody that created good art that didn't say they had ADD.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah anybody that's truly creative has probably been diagnosed or misdiagnosed or you know told at some point in their life that they have ADD.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: My I have a daughter she's um she's almost 18 she is 10 times the musician that I ever was she is so super talented.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know schoolwork regular conventional schoolwork is not her bread and butter but she will be asked by every sports team in the area to come sing the national anthem on any day of the week.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know yeah dude yeah it it's uh it's interesting man how that uh that's the case and you they they say that this stuff is hereditary as well and um it wasn't until I got older that I started uh and my mother would deny this I've I'm pretty sure but I'm why I watch the way my mom does certain things and I'm like I know where I got it from you know I do I know exactly where I got it from especially now that I've I've come to understand it better.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't I didn't really understand uh any of it until about three years ago four years ago I knew I had ADD I'd been told that when I was a kid I guess they did testing on me because I I had you know this is pat myself on the back or anything like that but like I you have a really high IQ score but I couldn't function in school and I couldn't do anything and my mom was like what his it should be you know this should work and uh so they tested me and said oh he's got he's got ADD it's like okay so I had ADD and that was that you know it was just like we didn't do anything about it it was just this this is what happened and uh so um you know it it's uh uh so I I'd never knew like what ADD was honestly and I know that sounds ridiculous but uh um but then I I started doing some reading and then I found out what the DSM is and you know got tested and doing went through all this stuff and um you know come to find out I'm riddled with the stuff and and and actually interestingly enough my the way that my ADD presents itself is more like how it presents in females than in males males usually have the hyperactivity part of it you know and I'm not hyperactive man I don't um I'm actually the opposite of hyperactive but with the females tend to have this circus happening in their brain internally it's very insular it's very inside and that's exactly how mine is man it's a it's a it's a carnival up here 247.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh but yeah just finding that stuff out and then going oh like the autism thing threw me off you know it's like wow man like but it makes total fucking sense and uh you know um the masking and like like how did I get through these oh I remember like you know hiding like masking this thing to try to get through life you know and like I all this stuff man and so it's it was very interesting to find this stuff out later in life and like I guess that's getting back to my point about my mom which is like now I look at my mom and I'm like oh wow you know and I mean she's never been diagnosed with anything I'm not diagnosing her I'm just saying that there's there's stuff that she does that I'm like oh that now I see it now it makes it makes sense there's correlation well let's bring this back to to music I had a name comes out on February 28th I'm sure it's gonna be out on all streaming platforms are you releasing this physically yeah there's well there's gonna there's uh vinyl and uh and CDs coming out I I always want to do CDs man because like I feel like see people forget how good CDs sound they're making a comeback compared I hope so uh but uh uh yeah so that and and um uh there's a link to my merch store off of my Instagram eBass prod is my Instagram uh at eBass prod and uh uh also uh Eric Bass presents on YouTube uh you can watch the videos and um yeah uh but there's a merch store up there we have we have merch this this is gonna be for sale we have um you can pre-order all that stuff and there's vinyl there's hoodies there's CDs all kind of stuff man so uh please go check it out also shine down's doing a tour the Dance Kid Dance tour yeah man it's gonna be hitting my market in Omaha Nebraska on April 26th I'm pretty excited for it I'm gonna try and make it out I'm hoping you and I can connect in person.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah man but uh yeah we we we got we we have new Shine Down music there's in this uh in this computer of this this contraption right here I'll even turn it around watch it in this contraption right here uh that computer right there and in that mixing board right there uh exists a new shinedown record that's being uh being worked on right now so um yeah uh so that's that's happening right now simultaneously man it's a it's a busy busy time but again um back to the depression thing and all that I was just you know try to outrun it man just try to stay out in front of it and stay as busy as I can stay and and uh if if hopefully if I stay busy enough it can't catch me so brother I appreciate that I appreciate your vulnerability and your ability to kind of share that side of your life I think that's what helps other people grow you know and and that is a gift like to be able to give people that feedback um in a very personalized and reciprocal way.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_00: My closing question typically on the podcast is very well correlated to that and it always is what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today don't tell lies that's truth don't lie um I I I heard a saying one time if you never tell a lie you never have to remember a story right and even small lies it's difficult man because like sometimes you want to embellish that story and you want to make things sound better than they are and um but uh just think about that man if everybody just took that to heart and you know what no more lies the world would be great we would be alright about as alright as we can be um that's uh you know and and like I my you know that was the first thing that popped in my mind is I'm saying it you know like just uh uh again to to hearken back to the faith thing you know um yeah uh treat you know love your neighbor as yourself you know and uh those those that that's uh those two things there you go there's two things I give you two I love that Eric I am glad to now call you a friend absolutely you know we are connected in the in somewhat connected in the real world now and if you never ever need another guy to reach out to you know I got I got your six man appreciate reach out thank you let me know yeah um but uh Eric Bass the world is a much better place with you and it thanks for doing the show man thank you man I appreciate that once again I'd like to thank my friend Eric Bass for doing the show today wow a lot of cool stuff coming from his world I had a name dropped February 28th Shinedown is going on a spring four uh dates with foot with fair tooth with Morgan Wade this is going to be massive check them out wherever you can make sure you follow Eric and Shinedown on all social media platforms while you are being generous with those social media follows make sure you are following caught on the mic on all social media platforms subscribe to my YouTube channel and uh you know visit my website www.cotonthe.com shoot me an email caught on the mic at gmail dot com for all guest inquiries I'd love to hear from you it's caught on the mic with Michael Clark I'm Michael Clark until next time thank you