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'Operation Mincemeat' Music and Stagecraft | The BSB Podcast · The BSB Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to the latest episode of the BSB Podcast.
• 0:03
  In today's episode, we're continuing our discussion of Broadway's Operation Mincemeat,
• 0:07
  A musical that boldly asks, what if Espionage were jazz hands, deeply British, and emotionally devastating for a man who technically doesn't exist?
• 0:15
  But before we explore the music and stagecraft of this show, please like, follow, and subscribe to the BSB Insider on all social media platforms at BSB Insider.
• 0:25
  Spoiler warning, if you haven't seen Operation Midspeed and wish to remain unspoiled, pause this video and come back once you've won the war.
• 0:31
  If you're still here, let's dive in.
• 0:34
  So in our last episode, RJ, we talked about the story and the characters of Operation Mincemeat.
• 0:39
  We also went down a little bit of a rabbit hole of different stories on Broadway currently.
• 0:44
  But we were really kind of exploring what does Operation Mincemeat, both the musical and the original story, which is technically just a plan to convince the Axis powers that we
• 0:53
  were invading somewhere else so that we could win the war.
• 0:56
  And by the war, I mean World War II.
• 0:59
  Of the characters, we have Charles Montague, who...
• 1:02
  Charles and Montague, should say, who are two MI5 agents or specialty people who decided to concoct this plan and convince the world that it was a good idea.
• 1:12
  uh Spoiler warning, it did win the war.
• 1:17
  So congrats to that.
• 1:19
  And here we stand to be able to talk about this incredible show.
• 1:23
  That being said today, RJ, we're going to talk about the music.
• 1:26
  And right off the bat, we have to note that the writers of the show, who are the stars of the show currently,
• 1:33
  are also the musical creators of the show.
• 1:36
  I did not realize that when we went to go see the show, and I said the word show so many times, I'm so sorry, but when we to go see Operation Mincemeat, I didn't realize that
• 1:45
  David Cumming, Felix Hagan, Natasha Hodgson, and Zoë Roberts were all writers and musical creators of the show.
• 1:52
  So four of the main people made Operation Mincemeat.
• 1:57
  That is incredible to think about, that the four of them
• 2:02
  have been over here for a year doing the show.
• 2:04
  did it in the West End, but they created the show Start to Finish.
• 2:08
  What is, like, what's going through your mind when you kind of hear that?
• 2:13
  This is a reoccurring situation, I would say, year to year on Broadway lately.
• 2:21
  Okay.
• 2:22
  I mean, at least in shows that we've seen, right?
• 2:25
  So we have this one.
• 2:27
  then, um I mean, ultimately, while we didn't see them, ah Mary, something we could look at.
• 2:38
  Last year, Sufs, and the infamous Hamilton.
• 2:46
  And there's honestly probably more where people have, especially off Broadway, written the show and then starred in it essentially.
• 2:55
  But I think this is the first time that we're seeing a group of people who made a thing together all star in it at least for a while em together.
• 3:10
  And honestly, how they don't get sick of each other, God bless.
• 3:16
  I do you are correct.
• 3:17
  I when you started when you started to lay it out that way I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot that all those shows also starred the individuals who wrote it like the creative geniuses
• 3:26
  but I think what you're saying there is is is true was like Hamilton was like the birth child of Lin Manuel Miranda, know, Sufs was the from the creative mind of one individual,
• 3:39
  you know what I mean?
• 3:42
  Same with Old Mary, where this one, it was four people working together to create a story that they were so passionate about that they decided to not only do it in the West End,
• 3:50
  but when it was coming over to Broadway, they didn't say, let another cast take that.
• 3:54
  They came back and they took those roles, which is quite a feat to be, you and again, when you're so proud of something, you probably don't want to let it go.
• 4:02
  You you want to hold that, hold that egg.
• 4:05
  But that is, I was really impressed when I was reading that.
• 4:09
  like, this is a...
• 4:11
  Like you could tell that the passion is in the story and in the songs of this.
• 4:16
  And you could tell when they're acting it out on stage that they absolutely love this show.
• 4:21
  Well, and I'm having like a callback moment to a friend of mine recently was talking about a character that they created for a D&D campaign and how connected and how emotionally
• 4:40
  attached they were to said character, especially when the character no longer was, no longer existed.
• 4:49
  and how, I mean years, right?
• 4:51
  Like years of their life went into this and then it was just no more.
• 4:55
  And so I kind of feel like that's probably very similar to how...
• 5:03
  these individuals might feel.
• 5:06
  Obviously the show is still running and they're still in it, but I can imagine that it will be very difficult when there comes a time where either the show is no longer running
• 5:16
  point blank or they are moving on from the show, which is probably more likely.
• 5:22
  I anticipate that the show will probably end up doing some variation continuously, but it's...
• 5:32
  It's a lot.
• 5:32
  You're living with these people, these characters.
• 5:36
  You become one in a way and I...
• 5:42
  similarly, if I created something, I absolutely would continue to play that role until I absolutely couldn't or the next best thing came along.
• 5:56
  You know, speaking of that, just to jump onto that for two points here, as a D&D player, it hurts to lose a character that you spent so much time in.
• 6:05
  I became Reba McEnfire so hard when I played my sorcerer that when she ultimately died, it was painful.
• 6:16
  And yes, I just admitted on recording that I played a D &D version of Reba McEntire and that's a whole different story.
• 6:22
  But...
• 6:24
  I would assume, yeah, like you do, like when you're playing these characters every single day or you're playing them weekly and stuff, um that does have to...
• 6:33
  It has to hurt to almost get that up.
• 6:34
  And speaking of giving it up, these original characters, these original actors are leaving the show February 22nd.
• 6:44
  Like for them, their mission is over.
• 6:47
  And that almost has to be kind of painful that like, okay, now we took it to Broadway, we did kind of the final thing and now it's almost gone.
• 6:55
  Yeah, well and like...
• 6:57
  I can't imagine, I think the initial gut punch of one that happens and then watching someone else go into those shoes can be also incredibly hard.
• 7:11
  Not only from a critiquing perspective, but just like, it is a piece of you.
• 7:17
  But I think any actor will kind of tell you that after they've lived with a character for a certain amount of time.
• 7:22
  um
• 7:24
  They also want to that character continue to grow and go on and be told by other people though.
• 7:30
  there's a valence.
• 7:32
  Can I ask on a personal level, like when you play a character, like you recently were in Prince of Egypt, even though it was like eight, like you lived months with this character,
• 7:41
  even though you did eight performances, is it hard to kind of hang up the character at the end?
• 7:46
  Depends on the show.
• 7:48
  I'll say that.
• 7:49
  ah Yeah, if it's a character that I really loved playing, for sure.
• 7:55
  um I think a lot of people will say like their dream roles uh would be sad to say goodbye to or the amount of time and effort that you put into a role.
• 8:09
  You're like, wow, like I don't get to do this again.
• 8:12
  uh
• 8:14
  And that is, yeah, there's a sadness, but there's a celebration too, because you've gotten through.
• 8:20
  You've done it all.
• 8:21
  Obviously, performances isn't a lot compared to people who are doing 800.
• 8:28
  So I can only, I can't even fathom, you know, doing years of the same thing every day, if not twice a day, and then saying goodbye.
• 8:39
  That's hard.
• 8:41
  For sure, for sure.
• 8:42
  I mean, we watch year after year, the wicked, you know, Elphaba and Glinda roll out of Broadway.
• 8:47
  And it's always an emotional time for them.
• 8:50
  Like they're on social media and they're like actually sobbing.
• 8:53
  And I think that sometimes if you even think about it with like movie characters as well, when people were kind of making fun of Ariana Grande and Cynthia, like they had lived
• 9:00
  those characters for five years.
• 9:02
  Like it's really hard to just kind of shed that skin and be okay.
• 9:05
  You know, the emotional catharsis or the emotional release that comes from
• 9:10
  switching that over and handing the reins over to somebody else is bound to be difficult.
• 9:16
  Well yeah, and it's not even just the character, but you think about the people that are surrounding you, because they're often on the same contract as you, or whatever.
• 9:25
  In that familial sense, obviously we all know theater people can be very dramatic, and a lot of times not get along.
• 9:35
  But you hope, and obviously in situations like this, where something is the same cast for so long, clearly they care about each other.
• 9:45
  Otherwise, I do not think it would have ever gotten this far and it would not have run this long.
• 9:50
  I can be totally wrong if anyone in the cast wants to tell me I'm wrong, go right ahead.
• 9:54
  ah But you can just tell from the way that they are on stage too and even what's especially telling oftentimes is curtain call.
• 10:06
  ah How they behave and how they support each other during that.
• 10:11
  when they're taking their bows can also be a very obvious way of knowing just how people feel about each other.
• 10:20
  for especially when it's a small cast like that too.
• 10:22
  It's kind of like six where you're like, you can tell right away, either they like each other or they don't.
• 10:26
  You know what I mean?
• 10:27
  Like, uh so going to the music then, now that we had a slight detour, thank you for that.
• 10:34
  I don't know how to classify this music.
• 10:37
  So I always turn to my musical expert, you.
• 10:40
  um How, mean, yes, this has a very big Broadway feel.
• 10:45
  And I guess I feel weird to even say Broadway feel, because I know that this is a West End production.
• 10:49
  But it had a very big musical feel, like that grand feel.
• 10:53
  But it was a little more liberty taking of the Broadway feel, more like a six, where would you place Operation Min's?
• 11:03
  The mincemeat's music.
• 11:06
  I mean, it's very...
• 11:08
  How do I say this without upsetting people?
• 11:13
  It feels very Generation of Today.
• 11:16
  Y'all can take that as you will.
• 11:19
  um Generation of Today, I mean, like you mentioned, 6, Hamilton, like the publicity says, it is a modern musical.
• 11:30
  Like, you aren't gonna catch this in the same...
• 11:33
  world as gypsy, right?
• 11:35
  Two very different things.
• 11:37
  um It's quick, it's cunning, it's still hitting the notes of let's have a random quick step number here and then a ballad here and then it just...
• 11:55
  Yeah, correct.
• 11:57
  Ticking the boxes.
• 11:58
  uh
• 12:00
  giving the people what they want and what they didn't know that they wanted.
• 12:04
  I think it's very evenly spaced, but definitely modern.
• 12:08
  I mean, we're talking like Dear Evan Hansen, um like pop genre musical.
• 12:15
  Very eclectic too, because it has a song for every person.
• 12:19
  It has a song of almost every genre.
• 12:21
  Yeah, but it's wide variety for sure, but the pulse, I would say, remains consistent.
• 12:29
  It's staying in step with itself.
• 12:32
  m
• 12:34
  I do think that when we talk about the music as well, I think that we also have to talk about something else.
• 12:38
  This is one of those shows, and I was pleasantly surprised by this, that it wasn't just all singing.
• 12:42
  There was also a lot of dialogue in between the songs.
• 12:45
  So you still had, like, you don't see a lot of that anymore.
• 12:48
  You know what mean?
• 12:48
  We tend to have more like, Hamiltons, where it's like a lot of music through the entire show.
• 12:52
  The show is music.
• 12:54
  And this one, like, we had Born to Lead, and then there was like a few scenes with some words.
• 12:57
  And then it was God That's Brilliant.
• 12:59
  You know what I mean?
• 13:00
  What did you...
• 13:01
  What is that structure like?
• 13:02
  Does that kind of call back to old school Broadway as well?
• 13:06
  I would say because it's a comedy and because it's historical, you have to set the stage somehow and sometimes, I mean, the songs being mostly comedy heavy, the heavy lifting kind
• 13:25
  of has to occur with the dialogue because otherwise you are not moving the plot at all.
• 13:30
  So it makes sense to me that there is a good amount of conversation happening, but
• 13:36
  I would say it was a pretty good balance.
• 13:39
  I would say it was about 50-50, which is actually shocking considering the amount of songs that are still in the show.
• 13:48
  Okay, so act one.
• 13:50
  We're gonna talk about the music of act one.
• 13:53
  And I'm gonna give you a uh minute to talk about what song stood out to you, to think about it, mean.
• 13:58
  But I'm gonna jump in here real quick, okay?
• 14:01
  So while I loved the first song, started off strong, it kind of gives, it was funny, it gives, um there was a show about underwater characters on Disney, like Disney Junior that
• 14:12
  it reminded me of.
• 14:13
  And my nephew used to watch it all the time and now I can't think of it.
• 14:16
  So the point is moot.
• 14:18
  But dear Bill.
• 14:21
  I loved Dear Bill.
• 14:24
  That was clearly one of my favorite parts of this entire show that brought me to tears.
• 14:31
  ah I think that's the song I'm going to remember the most from this show.
• 14:35
  ah So I definitely have to call that one out.
• 14:39
  And so I wanted to say that before I threw it to you.
• 14:43
  I mean, I can completely understand.
• 14:45
  And that is the power ballad of, I wouldn't even call it a power ballad, just the ballad of the show.
• 14:53
  I don't even love a ballad though, you know that, but apparently...
• 14:57
  Meaningful ballad.
• 14:58
  um I mean, I'm incredibly basic in the Earworm Really Got Me, which is the opening number, right?
• 15:06
  Born to lead.
• 15:08
  We get a reprise of it and it kind of closes that full circle.
• 15:12
  We love a full circle moment, right?
• 15:14
  When they're calling back to the opening number in the finale.
• 15:19
  So, yeah, the Earworm, it just got me.
• 15:22
  It's got me.
• 15:23
  I was humming it.
• 15:27
  before, humming it after, still humming it.
• 15:31
  week.
• 15:33
  You were whistling it as we were walking into our hotel.
• 15:37
  You were whistling it, you know, as you're sitting there on your phone.
• 15:39
  Like that was the song I knew it got into your head because you just kept whistling it.
• 15:44
  And it's simple, right?
• 15:45
  Like, the chorus, it's very easily memorable when you talk about, from a musical aspect, how it's written, which is the literal point, and I know that.
• 15:55
  uh But yes, because many of the other songs are trying to carry so much of the plot that it's a little bit harder to memorize or to know.
• 16:08
  uh
• 16:10
  Like honestly, looking at the song list, I'm not sure that I could even quote any of the other songs.
• 16:18
  Not to say that they weren't good, but again, there was so much happening and so much comedy happening.
• 16:24
  uh You almost...
• 16:27
  You need that.
• 16:29
  Like I can't imagine just singing one of these songs for a recital.
• 16:33
  uh Maybe the ballad.
• 16:38
  I mean, that is the most opportune song unless you're doing a group number, but yeah.
• 16:44
  so glad you said that because I was just about to say it and I'm glad that you got to say it first.
• 16:49
  There was a lot of the music that, not that it was, couldn't, I can't remember it, but there's a lot of it that just didn't catch my attention as much because it was so heavy.
• 17:01
  It's like one of those ones, like after you know the story and you listen to it enough times, you might be able to recall most of it.
• 17:06
  But I was looking at the list and I was like.
• 17:08
  yeah, All the Ladies was the part where they were dancing in the skirts.
• 17:11
  But I couldn't tell you what that song was about.
• 17:14
  Or Dead in the Water, I can kind of remember that, but not really.
• 17:17
  There was just a lot of pieces here that was so narrative heavy in the music that I feel like Dear Bill is almost the first time after Born to Leave that you really get a moment
• 17:28
  to breathe with the song.
• 17:30
  And you get to, it's not exactly narrative important, but it's...
• 17:34
  still an important song.
• 17:35
  I'm probably just rambling here, but there wasn't a lot that just...
• 17:39
  you like you the narrative was happening so much in the music that you couldn't just stop and enjoy the music.
• 17:44
  Correct, which even in the titles of the songs, it's actionable, right?
• 17:49
  Like, uh I Call Abort, Bevan's Update.
• 17:54
  Like these are all points of the show, and they're naming the actual thing that's occurring, rather than it just being like, like you said, Dear Bill.
• 18:07
  That sounds like a song where you're getting the whole image of the plot.
• 18:13
  or subplot in that song.
• 18:14
  ah Although I will say Making a Man is also one that I can remember relatively well.
• 18:22
  ah And Sail on Boys, maybe it's just because they use that often for PR purposes and so I've heard it enough times, but ah that's also, it's the group ballad, so I guess that's
• 18:39
  my ballad of the show.
• 18:42
  And I think that when you're looking at that too, the last number, the glitzy finale, at that point becomes just so campy that, cause like the whole story is wrapped up and
• 18:50
  they're trying to make it, they're like making, death becomes there is no longer the campy show on Broadway.
• 18:57
  oh That song too stuck out, but again, it was so silly and so ridiculous.
• 19:04
  It had nothing to do with the actual plot of the show.
• 19:06
  Cause the plot had wrapped up that that one did stick out in my head too.
• 19:09
  Like that was when I was like, okay, like, but also
• 19:11
  That song was, correct me I'm wrong, nothing but callbacks to the rest of the music in the show.
• 19:16
  Yeah, pretty much we were, it was like getting a mega mix, but we weren't calling it a mega mix.
• 19:21
  We were calling it a glitzy finale where we're seeing every, maybe not every song, but the bigger songs through the lens of making a movie, right?
• 19:37
  Which you will understand if you see the show.
• 19:42
  Speaking of things you understand when you see the show, I do want to talk about the dancing.
• 19:45
  And I put dancing here, but really, would you say that the show had a lot of movement in that dancing?
• 19:51
  that qualify?
• 19:53
  Is that the right word that I'm looking for?
• 19:54
  Because I was thinking about this.
• 19:55
  I'm like, there's not a lot of necessarily dancing, but there's a lot of movement in each song.
• 20:00
  And I'm thinking about the song with the phones.
• 20:02
  They're handing the phones around, and they're moving around each other, but they're not dancing per se.
• 20:07
  Yeah, I would say it's a strong moving show.
• 20:10
  There's a ton of movement and actually sometimes I consider movement to be...
• 20:18
  Pardon our interruption, but we were talking about the dancing and how this was a specifically heavy movement show and not necessarily like a dance show.
• 20:29
  um And you kind of mentioned that maybe this is the most heavily movement show that's maybe on Broadway, but it doesn't involve a lot of dancing.
• 20:39
  Yeah, I would say that strong movements, but sometimes movement can be more complicated, in my opinion, than dancing.
• 20:53
  uh Because with dancing, there's usually a lot of repetitive steps.
• 20:59
  Like you have something to kind of center around.
• 21:01
  uh
• 21:04
  or you can just kind of name those steps because they are a certain kind of dance step, one after the other, after the other.
• 21:10
  Whereas with movement, I mean, we're talking you're running stage left to grab that prop and then you're running stage right to do this and then back and up and down.
• 21:20
  it was.
• 21:21
  insane.
• 21:22
  It was just all over the place.
• 21:23
  It wasn't just moving your hands, moving your legs, whatever.
• 21:28
  It was, I mean, you're literally sprinting across the stage a lot of the time.
• 21:34
  oh
• 21:35
  You know, talking about the one with the phone real quick, I want to go back to that, because that's the one that really stands out in my mind.
• 21:40
  I was almost shocked at the end how well coordinated that was that they didn't get tangled up in those chords.
• 21:47
  Because in my head I was thinking I'm like one wrong hand off of a phone and you're almost, you're stuck and then you have to unravel.
• 21:56
  And when at the end, all they had to do was just move once and everything was there.
• 22:00
  was like, well, that is, it's impressive movement.
• 22:03
  with not the dance.
• 22:05
  In that aspect, was like, that was such a cool effect that you don't see all that often.
• 22:08
  And it just looked, it added to the gags of the show, but also just looked really dope.
• 22:16
  Yeah, and I would say, you know, I know the exact moment you're referring to, and I think even if for some reason it did go awry, because it is so campy, like you just play it off,
• 22:29
  right?
• 22:29
  You just, you know, oh, somebody got handed the wrong phone and now we're actually tangled.
• 22:35
  And if we are, then we just make fun of it.
• 22:38
  You know, we trip over each other, we laugh about it, whatever that looks like.
• 22:44
  And then we just, I mean, the show goes on.
• 22:47
  Yeah, which I part of me wondered about the finale when Natasha couldn't stop laughing a brick in character as she was hanging there.
• 22:57
  Part of me was just like, was that a mess up and or was that scripted?
• 23:02
  Because it felt like that too of like, it's so campy.
• 23:05
  It could have been a complete mess up and everybody would have just rolled with it at that point.
• 23:08
  It kind of reminded me of last year Sweeney when Sutton broke character for a really long amount of time.
• 23:17
  ah Like, was this planned?
• 23:23
  Because we all know that it's even funnier when we think that it isn't planned for whatever reason.
• 23:30
  We just think it's hilarious because they're laughing, so then we're laughing, and we're laughing, and they're laughing, and we're laughing.
• 23:36
  Like it's just, it's that circle of laughter.
• 23:39
  um And also it just reminds us that we're all human even when we're actors too.
• 23:46
  yeah, I was also curious.
• 23:48
  I'd be curious to see, I'm gonna have to do a deep dive on that and see if that's something that frequently occurs.
• 23:56
  Sometimes I wonder, because I remember Sutton Foster did it with the Music Man as well, where she broke character with Hugh Jackman and they did it every night and we thought we
• 24:03
  were special.
• 24:04
  But like when we went to go see Liberation, ah know, spoiler alert everybody, we saw it when it was being recorded.
• 24:10
  So I think that this plays into it as well.
• 24:12
  But there was a moment where the main actress put her hand to her mouth and you could, from our angle, we could see that she was laughing at something, but she was clearly
• 24:22
  trying not to laugh.
• 24:24
  because they were recording it.
• 24:26
  And probably just like, okay, so like that instance, I was like, that wasn't supposed to happen.
• 24:30
  But in this instance, everybody was smiling, laughing about it.
• 24:32
  And I was like, okay, so you're not trying to hide it.
• 24:34
  But again, it fit with the energy.
• 24:36
  like either way, either way, could have totally been one way or the other.
• 24:39
  And it worked perfectly fine because it's such a campy fun show where Breaking Character is just, it's kind of like SNL.
• 24:46
  People are almost waiting for that to happen.
• 24:49
  Right.
• 24:49
  And they're all playing so many characters that it's almost like the joke is on the characters because of the amount of them that they're playing.
• 25:04
  Correct, correct.
• 25:06
  Okay, so moving on to costumes, there was a very specific vibe for this.
• 25:10
  And this kind of goes with the conversation that we had in the last episode, which again, if you haven't seen last episode, go ahead and give it a listen.
• 25:16
  What are you waiting for?
• 25:18
  But this had a very 1940s feel.
• 25:22
  There was a lot of very like suits, like all everybody had like a take on a suit.
• 25:26
  There was some that were a little more feminine, some that were a little more masculine.
• 25:30
  I liked that Montague.
• 25:32
  This is the part of the costume that stuck out to me.
• 25:34
  So they're all very classic costumes, but with a modern take.
• 25:38
  And the one that stuck out to me was Montague's pants were almost like...
• 25:42
  I don't like, they weren't like what you would expect like from a suit pant.
• 25:45
  Which, suit pants, again, back in the time were a little bit baggy, but these were almost like aggressively baggy, but in a way that felt like almost gender nonconforming slash
• 25:54
  like a little more modern.
• 25:55
  And so those, it stuck out to me that there was these little flares of like everything was classically 1940s, but everything also had a very specific vibe.
• 26:03
  Does that make any sense?
• 26:05
  Yeah, I mean, very clearly they were trying to set the scene.
• 26:08
  um I do wonder though, if a lot of that comes from the UK influence, the European interpretation.
• 26:25
  But yeah, I think we also tend to have, we're used to like form-fitting clothing.
• 26:34
  and this because it was not that way, but it wasn't like unflattering.
• 26:39
  I would still say it very much followed each individual's body shape, but maybe we're just not used to that either.
• 26:49
  Sure, that could be what it is.
• 26:51
  we had all, you know, the diversity of bodies, I would say as well, is not something when we talked about gender previously.
• 27:01
  It was very unique to see people all sizes, all heights, all shapes.
• 27:09
  We don't get that.
• 27:09
  You don't get that on Broadway too frequently, especially in a fast paced.
• 27:14
  uh
• 27:16
  Broadway musical.
• 27:17
  So it was good to see, it also brings attention to those costume pieces.
• 27:23
  Sure, absolutely.
• 27:24
  And I think that, you know, obviously what about the costumes is that, again, they're spies, so they're supposed to be kind of non-conspicuous.
• 27:33
  And really what it did is it allowed a lot of the, I feel like maybe the set and the lighting to really shine in the show.
• 27:39
  I'm actually gonna say, I did not think that the set itself was, it was cool, but it was like very basic, you know I mean?
• 27:48
  Because I feel like a lot of the work was done through projections on the back screen.
• 27:53
  through lighting, through, again, some of the farcicalness of the opening of the doors and stuff like that.
• 27:59
  That part of the set was kind of cool.
• 28:01
  But like said itself, we're just kind of in a bunker.
• 28:04
  And I think the lighting was really the piece of this that really stood out to me.
• 28:07
  But I can't put my finger on why that felt so interesting.
• 28:13
  And again, I feel like I don't know what I'm saying, but I know that there's a point there.
• 28:17
  I mean, we are moving, we've seen projections before, right?
• 28:22
  This did feel a little bit different because rather than feeling like we were watching a projection, it almost felt like the projection was, even though you know that it's being
• 28:35
  projected, it felt like it was coming out of the wall, um at least for me.
• 28:42
  And so even though it wasn't a screen.
• 28:46
  So that felt unique in its own way.
• 28:50
  ah yeah, the lighting design kudos to that scene and all of, yeah, all of, all of that, because it's a lot, but that's what makes it like the details make it.
• 29:04
  You know, about the projections, something right off beginning when they're kind of doing some of them that I thought was really cool is that they use the effect of an old
• 29:15
  projector at school that we used to have.
• 29:17
  Or like, what would have been there at that time, you know, with like, remember the big old glass bulbs and the moving of the sheets on and off of them?
• 29:24
  When they started doing that with the initial plans, I was like, that is such a cool effect, because it did take you back to the 1940s.
• 29:31
  And it was something that most of us adults can remember because now they have, you know, smart boards and stuff like that.
• 29:36
  um So it was really cool to kind of have that little bit of a callback and to kind of make it again, one more step of kind of immersion into the story.
• 29:45
  Um, but obviously before we get our final verdicts, we do need to talk about the pacing.
• 29:51
  RJ, this is an incredibly fast paced show.
• 29:55
  In fact, I would make the argument, this is one of the fastest shows on Broadway without actually being fast because we were still there for two plus hours.
• 30:05
  Um,
• 30:06
  What was that pacing like for you?
• 30:09
  I mean, like you said, over two hour show, pretty standard.
• 30:15
  Difference being it felt like it was maybe an hour and a half, uh at least to me.
• 30:22
  Very quick, the scenes, the transitions were again, make or break a show.
• 30:31
  I can't even remember if there was a single blackout.
• 30:34
  I don't think there was, I think it just kept going and that anytime the lights go down completely, it ultimately breaks us from the stage, I would say.
• 30:45
  And that's what makes time feel elongated.
• 30:49
  And in this case, there was never a quiet moment, there was never a moment where there wasn't something moving.
• 30:57
  Most costumes were coming on and off within.
• 31:02
  moments.
• 31:03
  yeah, like seconds.
• 31:06
  And so easily the fastest paced show in regards to all facets, costumes, set, lighting, like everything, not just, you know, Hamilton where the music is moving fast, but
• 31:23
  everything else kind of remains.
• 31:25
  Like this was, everything was moving all of the time at a very fast pace.
• 31:32
  Like I was out of breath just watching them go from scene to scene to scene.
• 31:37
  I don't know how you could possibly do that show twice in a row.
• 31:40
  I would be...
• 31:42
  physically and emotionally exhausted, and vocally, because, again, there's only five of them and they're all singing all the time.
• 31:50
  Yeah, most of the scenes have all of them in it in some capacity.
• 31:54
  They're all singing.
• 31:55
  Again, that's music is fast paced.
• 31:57
  I will say that of all the shows we saw, this is the one that moved the quickest for me.
• 32:03
  And the fact that, again, getting to be 30 years old and your knees hurt from seats and stuff like that, this show didn't bother me pretty much at all.
• 32:14
  I looked at my watch once in the first act, and it was almost over.
• 32:19
  And I was like, when did this happen?
• 32:22
  And when you speak about the blackout, the only blackout we had for Act One was when Act One was done and it went black.
• 32:28
  That was it.
• 32:29
  That was all we had.
• 32:30
  And that is super impressive.
• 32:33
  Now this show, as we give our verdicts, was a show that I had pushed for to see.
• 32:40
  But I remember in the middle of the week you saying that like it was also perhaps your favorite one that we had seen.
• 32:47
  Does that still hold true?
• 32:49
  I would say...
• 32:52
  Yes.
• 32:53
  Yes, for the caveat.
• 32:56
  Really?
• 32:56
  OK.
• 32:57
  Just a strong yes.
• 32:59
  Why?
• 32:59
  Why was this your favorite?
• 33:01
  What was it about this show?
• 33:03
  everything we just talked about.
• 33:04
  ah And that fast pace, again, I was never bored.
• 33:10
  I never thought about looking at my watch.
• 33:12
  I never thought about literally anything but then what was happening in front of me, which just tells me how engaged it kept me.
• 33:22
  ah I was always wondering what was going on, but also I had to be paying attention to stay immersed in the story.
• 33:31
  Yeah, it's got me on all fronts.
• 33:34
  What grade would you give it?
• 33:36
  A to E, A to D, A to F, whatever you want to give me.
• 33:39
  I would give it an A.
• 33:41
  I would also give this an A.
• 33:44
  While nobody gives that any pleas, while this maybe wasn't my favorite that we saw all week, we saw a lot of incredible shows.
• 33:54
  We saw a lot of incredible shows, and this was one that did not disappoint.
• 34:00
  Like, there was, this was truly a great one from start to finish, had every emotional beat you could possibly ask for.
• 34:06
  It was just a win all around.
• 34:08
  And so I'm so glad we got to see this before it left.
• 34:10
  I understand why it keeps extending.
• 34:13
  I understand why the show keeps giving life.
• 34:16
  Our show was full, pretty much, like I don't remember any empty seats, and everybody was so engaged with it that this is just like check marks across the board for the show.
• 34:24
  Yeah, I mean, I know the people next to us, they had already seen it multiple times.
• 34:29
  Definitely a lot of out of towners who also said they couldn't miss it before it closed or and even before uh the original cast was all gone.
• 34:42
  So, yeah, it's gonna go far, I think.
• 34:48
  And on that note, have completed our discussion of Operation Mincemeat.
• 34:52
  But stay tuned for future episodes of the BSB Podcast.
• 34:54
  Thank you again for joining us here in our box seats.
• 34:57
  Until next curtain call.