Latest / Crooked Tree: A West Memphis 3 Podcast / Episode 21: LG, Damien, and "Dominic"

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Episode 21: LG, Damien, and "Dominic" · Crooked Tree: A West Memphis 3 Podcast

• S1, E21: Welcome to Crooked Tree, a West Memphis 3 podcast. On May 9, 1993, at 4 15 p.m., Narlene Hollingsworth called and stated that she saw the boys on their bikes by Weaver at 4.45 p.m. on Wednesday, going away from their home. Also, she saw Dominique and Damien Wednesday at 9 40 p.m. walking from Blue Beacon toward Lakeshore Estates. They looked dirty. LG Hollingsworth, age 17, said Was at laundromat at 9:30 p.m. According to Mrs. Hollingsworth, her nephew LG made the statement on Thursday that he knew about what happened before anyone else. LG has 666 on the side of his boots. LG resides at 714 Macaulay Circle with his parents, LG and Linda. He works at Big Star West. Damien is mean and evil, according to Mrs. Hollingsworth, signed Suzanne. Mm. Hello, everybody. Welcome back. My name is Paul Day, forensic geologist, West Memphis researcher, and I'm here with my co-host Kristen Rich, criminologist and victim advocate. We're both victim advocates for the Byers family. And we are jumping into another part of the case. This is a well-trodden area. A lot of people that have studied the case, one of the first places they wind up is exactly where we are today, talking about a person by the name of Narling Hollingsworth. And her nephew, LG Hollingsworth, and the stinky box. And the fact that it is so well known elevates LG amongst the legends of the case, right alongside Bo Jengles of the Tattooed Man. Kristen, how do you feel about jumping into all this and getting into the saga that is the Hollingsworth clan and the relationship of LG Hollingsworth, Domini Tear, and Damian Eccles? I am always ready to talk about all things Hollingsworth. They are certainly some fascinating pieces of this puzzle. Out of non-suspects in this case, Narlene Hollingsworth is my favorite to talk about, to study, to try to decipher. It's difficult. Y'all will see why. So I'm excited to talk about this. And I'm really excited mostly to see what kind of feedback we get from people after we discuss, especially LG and Narlene, because so many people have so many different takes on what they say and do. And so I'm curious to hear what other people think of these people. So right off the bat, LG Hollingsworth is a name that you hear conjoined with Damian Eccles. And Damien Eccles, as far as the West Memphis PD is concerned by May the 10th, is a top suspect. On May the ninth, this tip had come in and it was connecting LG Hollingsworth to Damien Eccles. So now LG Hollingsworth is somebody who is a prime person of interest. And they're tied at the hip through this tip and they want to talk to him. the question is whether or not they're able to ever put any meat on the bone and make a case against him is a totally different issue. But he's a major part of this case, a major part of this timeline. And we are excited to get into this. I think it's interesting because he used to be related to Domini through a marriage, and they're not anymore, but they were cousins and They have a pretty good friendship. They still are in contact during this time very frequently. LG and Damien don't spend that much time together. It's Damien and Domini or Domini and LG. They're not all together very much. And certainly LG and Damien alone doesn't seem to happen that often. So it's interesting that all these people link those two together. And as we'll see, eventually Domini is just kind of left out of the picture. Even though she's in the sighting by Narlene, it ends up just being Damien and LG. And so I find that really fascinating that we're just gonna drop Domini out of the picture altogether. So one of the things that has happened on May the ninth and May the tenth is Damien is being interviewed, not just Damien, but Damien is being interviewed, Jason is being interviewed, Murray Ferris is being interviewed. Damien is going to be interviewed again by Ridge Sudbury and later on Durham on May the tenth. And in This series of interrogations that he's undergoing, because that's what it is. They're interrogations. They'll call them interviews. He's being questioned for this crime. He lays his cards on the table. And not just himself, but he and Jason and Domini all put their cards on the table. And we learned some things about what they're doing on May the fifth or what they say they're doing on May the fifth. So we have learned that Damien, Jason, and Domini said that they all walked with Jason to go mow Jason's uncle's yard. We've learned that. We know that Damien and Domini went to Alexander's laundromat to call for a ride. That ride was supplied by his parents to come and take him home. And then later on he's gonna say that he's hanging out with family friends. That Damien and his family dropped off Domini at Lakeshore. Damien then returned home, spent some time at the Sanders house. He, of course, he gives this time of three o'clock to five o'clock, which will later be a major issue in the trials, in particular because the Sanders will give a different time. He spent the remainder of the evening on the phone talking to a girl by the name of Holly George. We learn all this also on the 10th. LG is listed by Damien as a suspect. So here we've got a tip that is connecting the two. And Damien is in his interview saying, hey, you need to look at LG Hollingsworth. He might be your guy. And he also named the other Jason Baldwin, the one that was described as being 300 pounds and five foot nine ish. And also remember, he's not the only one that is listing LG as a suspect. LG is also listed on Jerry Driver's list that was given to Sudbury as a top suspect, as somebody who is capable of doing this. So those are the cards that are currently on the table, and it's connecting LG and Damien together. Well, so that brings us to Narlene's tip because she states what she saw on the afternoon and the evening of May the 5th, and what she saw regarding Damien and Dominian LG. is gonna differ than what they said they did. So Narlene Hollingsworth's tip is important because now the police have to decide who's credible and who's not. So the first part of Narlene's tip said that she saw the boys, this is our victims, on their bikes by Weaver at 445 PM on Wednesday, going away from their home. We will go in depth into what her day was like at another time. But this is what she gives us a thumbnail sketch of what she's remembering as far as our victims and possible suspects for that day. So at four forty five PM, she says she saw the boys by Weaver. No description of the boys. We assume she's referring to the victims here on their bikes. So do all of them have bikes? Are there multiple boys on bikes? We don't know. By Weaver at four forty five. This forty forty five is a problem. As you know, Stevie's not seen by anyone else during this time. So if Narlene saw Stevie, she'd be the only one to see him during the four o'clock hour. The other problem I see with that time just right off is that this is the exact same time that Terry and Pam and Amanda, Hobbs, they leave their home and they drive by the Moore's house to see if they can find Stevie playing with Michael. As you all know well by now. Weaver elementary is right next to the Moore's house. So had the Hobbs been over there in that area at the same time that Narlene's there and she says she sees the boys, then it's probably likely that the Hobbs would have seen Stevie as well and they did not see him. Yeah, it's a thing that she's saying that if this was true, the parents should have run right into Stevie right there on the corner or in that area or in that vicinity. We actually know that Stevie is not. based upon eyewitnesses, he is not with Christopher and Michael. Christopher and Michael are on Wilson and Stevie is not identified. So if this in fact is Stevie, then Stevie would have to have been with two other kids that are not Michael and Christopher. Right. And she doesn't identify any of them. She just says boys. So we don't know who she saw. It could have been our victims. It could have been three other boys entirely. It could have been four boys. It could have been eight boys. We don't know. That's right. But I think the implication here is that she saw the boys and she says going away from their homes. So she's talking about someone specific, and so we assume that's the victims here. Another interesting tidbit in the tip is that it says that LG was said to have gone to a laundromat. The question that the police are gonna have is this the same laundromat that Damien Eccles just told us that he was at also? She doesn't identify the location of the laundromat in the May 9th tip when she's calling this in. So that's a pressing issue. The other thing that she identifies in her tip is that Damien and Domini are on the service road and that they are muddy or dirty. Of course the implication being that if they in fact did the crime, they would have been down in that creek and getting muddy and dirty. LG being located near the crime scene at 714 Macaulay also draws a sinister inference about him possibly being close to the situation. Is it possible that LG and Domini and Damien all got together in the woods because it was close to LG's house? And of course the police are gonna hone in on the idea Of LG having 666 on his shoes because they're already predisposed to believing this is a satanic crime. So this has definitely got their attention. And of course, the biggest part is she's out there saying they're out there on the service road. This completely contradicts Damien's alibi, provided May the ninth. So when Damien goes, I was home or I was talking to girls on the phone, Holly George in particular on the phone, the police are saying, Well, we have a witness that's saying that that's not true, that he was out on service road with his girlfriend, Domini Tear. And that LG Hollingsworth is associated with them that evening as well. Which is interesting because they're not even seen together. The fact that they're in the vicinity apparently means that they were together doing something sinister. Yeah, that's the allegation she's making to the West Memphis PD d on the tip. So as a consequence, LG is gonna be brought in for questioning on May the tenth, the very next day. And Damien, of course, is brought in. He's the main person that they bring in at eleven fifty-four. He is questioned by Ridge and Sudbury up until about one twenty. By one forty, Damien is signs his Miranda waiver for Bill Durham and begins his polygraph. Well, that frees up Detective Ridge, who has been interrogating Damien this whole time, to turn to his next person he wants to interrogate. And that is LG Hollingsworth. Yeah. So the day after Arlene Phones and her tip, they bring LG in. And as the first thing that they do is to take a subject description. That was taken at 1 47 PM on May the 10th. His description is that he is LG Hollingsworth. He's 17 years old, lives at 714 Macaulay Circle. He works at Big Star West, just like Narlene had mentioned. The only really interesting thing on his description are his tattoos. He has a little gangster tattooed on his right arm. And he has a cross on his left first finger. Yeah, and just as a side note, the name L G is spelled L G. That's it. It's not E-L-G-E-E or anything like this. It's L G. And it literally stands for nothing. It's L G. So his putting this little gangster on his right arm obviously is a playoff the fact that he could fill in the blank for whatever he wanted. That's what he did on that tattoo. And it was noted. They also note that he has a fiance. a girl by the name of Liza McDaniel, and that she had moved to Kentucky, but she had formerly lived at the Belvedere apartments in unit number seventy two. We'll be circling back to Liza and her time over at the Belvidere apartments at unit number seventy two, because it turns out it's pretty close to where Domini Tyr once used to live. And Liza McDaniel is one of Domini Tear's best friends. And that is another connecting point between LG and Damien and Domini is this relationship. That Liza McDaniel was having with LG. So on May the 10th at 147, LG Hollingsworth begins his interrogation with Detective Brian Ridge. After the subject description is taken, Detective Ridge begins interviewing LG about what he knows about the crime. And we do have Detective Ridge's handwritten note on this interview. Unfortunately, once again, they did not audio record the interview with LG. So the notes are all we have to go on for this interview. And another thing that's unfortunate is that the detective is Detective Ridge, who one has very bad handwriting and two, takes very sparse notes. And so we have this very sparse commentary of what happened during this interview. And you we can see kind of what they're talking about and what the gist of what is happening is. But we have to read between the lines to be able to do this. So I'm going to go ahead and read those notes and hopefully we can put together some type of narrative. The top of it says 714 Macaulay Circle. This is how we actually identify that this belongs to LG Hollingsworth. This is his address. And we can tell from this interview note that we're going through is that he's the one that's the respondent to this information. He's the one providing this information because nowhere on this note does it actually has. His name across the top saying LG Hollingsworth's interview on May the tenth. You have to read between the lines to be able to pull this out. And as a consequence, it's actually misfiled on Callahan. It's under Narlene. It's also under LG. You can tell that they didn't really know where this belonged, but this is LG Hollingsworth's interview that he did with Ridge. And so here we're going through this. 714 Macaulay Circle. The next line down, it says Wednesday, Narlene Hollingsworth. Now narlene Hollingsworth. is LG Hollingsworth's aunt. The next line down it says and Tabitha. Tabitha is Tabitha Hollingsworth. That is LG's cousin, Narlene's daughter. The next line down it has a drawing of a cross. This is probably the drawing of the tattoo that he had on his hand. It's a cross with rays coming off, kind of at 45 degree angles coming off the center of the cross. So it almost looks like a starlit cross kind of thing. And then next to it it says 8 a.m The implication being this is probably the time that he got together with Narlene and Tabitha that morning on Wednesday. The next line down simply says accident at 12 noon. We've dug into this a little bit, and what we have learned is that the accident didn't actually occur at 12 noon, but there was a car accident. Narlene was involved in a fender bender that day, and that occurred at 948 AM. So LG is saying, yeah, this happened around noon. No, it happened at 948. The next line down says mom got off at three to four. Next line down says went over. So the implication being he had been hanging out with his Aunt Narlene and his cousin in their car. There was a car accident. And then when his mom got off work between three and four, he went home. He went over to her house. And that's again back at 714 Macaulay Circle. Remember, Macaulay Circle is very close to where the victims live, there in the center of Holiday Gardens. Next line says, Mom went out with friends. The next line says went to Winbury Apartments. In the margin off to the left of that, it says talking Hungarian. Dark. So is that what time his mom went out with friends, or were the friends speaking Hungarian? Windbury apartments. Who are we talking about here? Is it his mom? Or is it possibly LG himself, right? The next line says, went to Flash Market on Ingram. The next line below that says 10 p.m. Then Next line down says Richard drove home. And then there's an arrow beneath the name Richard and it says yellow LTD. So an LTD is a this particular time in history. It was a fairly large family-sized vehicle that was produced by Ford. And they could be quite big, medium-sized to big in nineteen ninety-three. The size of a police car back then. Yeah, it's like a police cruiser size. The next line says, used to be a member of Tullahoma Baptist. In Memphis. Now I've Googled Tullahoma looking for this institution, and it turns out the closest I could find is a Tullahoma Baptist Church in Memphis. And I've been talking to Kristen a little bit about this, and she says this is a little unusual spelling. I'm confused. When I read Ridge's notes, he has it spelled T U L A H O A. Now we have a Tullahoma, Tennessee. It has two L's in it. It's T U L L A H O A, and it's in Middle Tennessee near Nashville. So that's the word I'm familiar with and the place I'm familiar with. So it's saying that this person used to be a member of whatever that word is, Baptist in Memphis. But yeah, Paul's right. When you Google that, there is no Tullahoma Baptist. It's T C H U L A H O A. And I don't know how that's pronounced. Apparently, if you take the T off, there's also a Chulahoma Baptist Church not too far in Mississippi. So I don't know if that T is silent and it's Chulahoma, or if it's to ch I don't know. Google says that the T is silent and it is pronounced Chulahoma. So I'm just curious what the regional significance is. That's something that maybe we could talk about on the Facebook group rather than here on the podcast. But it is interesting. It's a word that comes up and it seems to be s significant to LG. He's obviously being asked religious questions. And unlike Damien, when he's answering these questions, his response is Not that I'm a Wiccan or that I am involved with anything with Murray Ferris or the Covenant of the Divine Light. He says, I'm a Baptist. I used to be a member of this Baptist church in Memphis. So he's not claiming to be involved in Wicca or anything else that is alternative to Christianity. He's just saying I'm your local Baptist kid, not anything that you would see as unusual in terms of faith. The next line down says, Last been in Robin Hood six to seven months ago. Now I want to note that Robin Hood is very close to his home. But six to seven months ago, that would have been November of the previous years when he's saying the last time he was in Robin Hood. In terms of probably visiting and hanging out at the Bayous, that's probably true. But it was a pretty common thoroughfare for people to walk and hike around back there. So it's entirely possible that he was at least aware of what was happening back there to some extent if he lived in that neighborhood. The next line below where it says Robin Hood six to seven months ago, it says Chris Latrell, Broadway Trailer Park. So Chris Lattrell is a member of the Covenant of the Divine Light. Undoubtedly, LG's being asked if he knows any of the members of the Covenant of the Divine Light. And he's saying, Yeah, I know Chris Lattrell, Broadway trailer park. This is the same trailer park that Damian Eccles lives in. So it turns out that Chris Lattrell and Damian Eccles are they're not directly next to each other, but they're very close to one another there in Broadway. Broadway is not a very large park. Now everything below this is circled on the report. And this is Pretty clear that he is drawing special attention to this information. It says Domini wearing black. Damien, black. Then there's a line and it says, Narlene said she saw Damien and Domini somewhere near his house, his house being LG's house. He believed at about 10:30 p.m. on Wednesday, and then it provides a phone number. And that is the end of that part of the report. The stuff that circled is interesting because it looks like maybe LG was asked a question about whether or not he saw Damien and Domini that night. And from the response, it appears that he doesn't say he didn't see him, but he's giving the answer that he heard from Narlene. So based on this information, he's repeating what Narlene told him about seeing Damien and Domini on the service road is what it looks like. Yeah, it looks like he's giving a hearsay response and reiterating a story that he was told. Right. That's exactly what it looks like. The big difference here is that he believes that Narlene told him that she saw Damien and Domini at ten thirty p.m. And when she phoned in the tip. To the West Memphis Police Department, she said she saw them at 9 40 p.m. So you're talking about a 50-minute difference here in time. So at that point, that's all we see in the notes. There's no recording, there's no other information. And LG is escorted back home. When he gets home, he's with a person by the name of Charlie Dabbs, who is a member of the drug task force. He's an associate of Sudbury. We know that Sudbury, of course, at this point is very busy with Damian Eccles. I'm sure Ridge was Trying to rush through this interview with LG Hollingsworth because he was interested in what was going on with Damian Eccles. So Charlie Dabbs then goes over to LG Hollingsworth's house, and there's a consent that is given by LG to collect some things from his house. And what do they pick up? They pick up a knife with a sheath, one pair of black and white Adidas tennis shoes, one pair of LA Gear tennis shoes, one pair of Adidas tennis shoes, one pair of LA gear tennis shoes. He's got a lot of shoes. And they're not cheap shoes. These are expensive shoes. They're collecting his knife and his shoes. They photographed and took plaster casts of the prints that they found at the crime scene. So shoes are of great interest to the police department. And it's pretty clear they're interpreting that plaster cast as being some type of tennis type or athletic type shoe imprint that they're seeing. So one of the things that we know is happening at about this time is that Ridge separates himself and he's Now paying attention to Damian Eccles is they come to the end of their interview with Damien and his polygraph. This takes them to about 336. And of course, this is when that infamous anonymous call comes in where the guy calls in and says, I'm the one that killed them three kids. What you gonna do? And for those of you that didn't hear it in the last episode when we played it, we're gonna play it again right now so that you can rehear and hear the voice. This could be the voice of the killer himself. Where's more of a battle walk here? TF3T, it's what's going to Yeah. So a half an hour after someone called in and said that they are the ones that killed the boys, the West Memphis Police Department receives another call at four five PM. Detective Mike Allen picked up on line one and talked with what sounded like an older white female who stated she had overheard that a Dominic and a Damien killed the three little boys and that LG, last name unknown, took and laundered their clothing. Caller states that Damien had body parts in a box from the children. The caller stated she didn't want to give her last name and that she had heard that LG's mother was going to lie about LG's whereabouts. Signed Mike Allen. So now we have an allegation that LG Hollingsworth is actually an accomplice based upon this tip, that he's laundering their clothes. We now know that LG Hollingsworth has, based on the tips that we have, been to a laundromat. We also know that. Damien Eccles and Domini Tear have said they were at a laundromat that day. So now we have this huge question is it the same laundromat? Did they go to the same place? Did this in fact happen? So what's really ominous in this tip is some new information that there's supposedly body parts in a box that is in Damien's possession. Damien is sitting right there in the West Memphis PD interrogation room when this call comes in. Well, actually, he's over at the hospital at this point, giving samples. So right around the same time. This should be a prime target for the investigation because if you find the box and it's got, let's just say it, Christopher's missing part in that box, then Damien is the killer. Or whoever's got this box is an associate or is the killer, right? So you find the box, you find the killer. And this should be something they should be all over. And it's going to be brought up again. The police don't need to wait very long to act on this tip because they're actually already working on this tip. At 420 p.m., Narlene Hollingsworth, LG Hollingsworth's aunt, the person who he was with on May the 5th, who called in the tip on LG, his own aunt, is now interviewing with the police. And in the only recorded statement on May the 10th, we have that recording. But before we do this, let's say a little bit about National First off, Narlene is LG's aunt, but there's little wrinkles here. Narlene also used to be married to LG's father. His name is L. G. Hollingsworth Senior. So his aunt used to be married to his dad. Narlene had actually divorced L. G. Hollingsworth Senior in her youth. They got married very early on. And then later on she married his younger brother, Ricky Hollingsworth. And she is the mother to Anthony, who was twenty one years old at this time, Tabitha Hollingsworth, who was sixteen at this time, little Ricky, who was about thirteen or fourteen-ish at this time, and little Mary Hollingsworth, who was ten at this time. Later on LG Sr. would marry Narling's best friend, a person by the name of Linda, and they had LG Jr. And so you might get the sense that there might be some internal family tension over this, where your aunt is turning you in for a crime and phoning in a tip on you and now talking to the police. And you're gonna hear that there is definitely some tension in these interviews that are gonna be coming out of this day. This is a family tree that is difficult to follow at best. And there will be more about that in conversations, in the trial. You'll hear all kinds of talking in circles about how all of these Hollingsworths are related. So there's a couple more details we need to give you about Narlene and her family. Narlene lives in Lakeshore Trailer Park. She lives very close to Jason Baldwin, and she also lives very close to Domini Tear. In fact, Pamela Hollingsworth, who is Narlene's sister-in-law, lives on the same road in Lakeshore as Damien and Domini. And in fact, is Domini's landlord. But we're gonna come back to this later on because it turns out that there's a bigger connection that has not been revealed yet. Narlene is interviewed on May the 10th, same day that LG gets interviewed. Her interview actually happens at her home in Lakeshore. She does not go to the West Memphis Police Department for this interview. She was interviewed by Lieutenant Hester and Detective Dabbs. And just a note on that prior to this interview, which began at 420 PM that day, they had taken her out to show them the areas in which she claimed she saw Damien and Domini on the service road. So they have been with her prior to sitting down to do this interview. But as always, they start with a subject description. So her name is Norlington Hollingsworth. She's a white female. She's forty two years old. She's a housewife. Nothing really interesting or peculiar about her. She's married. She lists her sister as Pamela Hollingsworth. And her sister also lives in Lake Short. And that's about all that's interesting on her subject description. So before we start listening to this, I wanna give you a little warning. These audio clips are extremely hard to listen to and it's not for the reasons you think. It's not because they're gonna be talking about anything grotesque or anything like that. It's because there's a large amount of background noise that you're going to hear. And the reason why you're hearing a large amount of background noise, especially as you progress from the beginning clip to the final clip, it's going to get pretty intense, is because they are recording in the middle of a storm, a very intense storm that is striking the area of West Memphis. And later we'll move over into Memphis and the five o'clock hour. This storm is happening at the same time that Damian Eccles is at the hospital. It's happening at the same time that LG has already returned home and has moved on to his life that afternoon. So right in the middle of the storm, this thing is hitting and you're going to hear it hitting the top of the metal roofs around the area of the trailer park. And so you're going to hear that intensity in the background. And they're going to have to talk over this. They're going to have to deal with this while this is happening. So it is what it is, but it also makes it very real. It puts you into the environment of that time, a rainstorm happening Right after Damian Eccles is being interrogated and off to the hospital, right after L. G. Hollingsworth has gone home, and right in the middle of this intense conversation that is happening between Narlene and the police. So you might stop it, rewind it. I know that I've done it a billion times listening to this thing. And it is what it is. This is the materials we have to work with. And we're gonna share it with you. This is gonna be the very first clip of Narlene with Charlie Dabbs. And Lieutenant Hester. Detective Debs and Sergeant Diane Hester. Lieutenant excuse me, Lieutenant Hester. This is Monday, fifth month, tenth day, four twenty. We're talking to Narlene Hollingsworth at two three Sycamore, telephone number seven three five O eight two seven in reference to information she is giving us on what she saw on a Damian subject and L G Hollingsworth. All right. Lelly just start with Monday or last Wednesday when you said that you had picked up L G. Just start from when you picked him up and go from there. Okay, L L G I was supposed to pick LG Holland's work up at home which is Wednesday morning. Okay and that's it. He came to my home about nine and we left from there looking for him and Tampa Job. that in the morning. Right. So then we found the job and we went back home. And he said he had to be home by four thirty. So I he was kept on around and went around my house wanting to go home. So I said, Okay. So it was twenty after Twenty after five, why twenty after four? Yeah. It was twenty after four and when we left mine. I took him straight to Macaulay where he lived. All right, he we just drove by that address and it was seven fourteen McAuley Circle, okay correct? Seven fourteen Macaulay Circle. Okay, then I left him. And the street I took led me straight down to Weaver School. And that was going Macaulay Circle back to Holiday Drive. Right. Then back south On Wilson to East Bro to East Barton. Uhhuh. Which you took a right and you went back west on Barton. Right. And that's when I seen the little three little boys on the bicycle. Right, described these boys you saw. Where where were they at when you saw Okay, they were just before you get to Weaver School and then they was going so fast on that bicycle. And then they come out one of come out in front of me and I hollered at him and told him that he needed to get out of the street 'cause, you know, he was getting run over. Okay. There was two smaller boys and a little and a heavy step boy, a little heavier than the rest of And the little heavy step was a little bit darker hair than the rest of If I'm not mistaken, the little heavy step boy had on a pair of green shorts with some black in it with black and white tennis shoes on them. But I can't I I think the all three were shorts, but I'm not really sure about the other two because I got a good look at the little dark kitty boys. That's the one I really can describe better than I guess. Okay. Were they all three on bikes? They were all three on bicycles. Yes they were. And nice bicycles. What did the bicycles look like? Well one had some looked like some black in it. And I believe one of had some light green in it, if I'm not mistaken. But they all three of those boys were together. There was two in the front and one in the back. One nine red. And they were flying on the bicycles. And I told them the little boys, I You aren't to go home. And that little boy said, No, we're gonna play for them. So they was they was headed what is this down what now it's this part. Down Barton they was headed away from their homes. And 'cause I know they live back the other way because she a lady lives in the party told me that they did live back the other way when I spoke to her. So they weren't going away from their home. I never saw the little boys again. But I did see I did see something later on Wednesday night. That didn't Did you go home? Did I go straight home? After this. Yes I did. Yes I did. I always stretch my house and go and do what I always do when I have to go when I go and You can tell right away that prior to this interview that Lieutenant Hester and Detective Dabbs have taken Narlene out to ride around and so that she can show them exactly what she saw that day. They drove the route she drove that afternoon when she saw these boys, and they're gonna continue on The route that she says she took that day, both in the afternoon and in the evening. So they have already spent some time with her. It's obvious that they have already gotten Narlene's timeline, her story from that day, because right away, Lieutenant Hester says, Narlene, just start with last Wednesday when you said that you had picked up LG. Just start from when you picked him up and go from there. So they already know that Narlene's mourning began with her picking up. LG. They have talked at some length prior to this interview, which of course we have no notes and no audio from them driving her around West Memphis so that she can tell them where she was and what she saw while she was out driving around. so the I think the interesting part from that clip is her description of the boys that she says she saw by Weaver. Let's talk about that. Well, there's a lot of things that are really interesting about her description of the boys. It's the what they look like, what they're riding, and when they're doing it. She doubles down from her tip the previous night and says, I saw them sometime in the four o'clock hour. Well, we know that Stevie has a missing hour from four to five, so she would be the only one to put the three boys together if that was true. She describes them as two little boys and one dark haired heavy set boy. The dark haired heavy set boy, which is the one that she focuses on matches none of the victims at all. The other two are just generally described as little or smaller boys. She also says that they're all wearing shorts. None of the victims were wearing shorts. One of them, Michael Moore, was wearing a Cub Scout uniform. It would have stood right out and been very obvious. So as a consequence, this doesn't match anything. This is not matching the boys. The bikes don't match any of the descriptions of the bicycles. And they're all free on bikes. They're all three on bikes. We know Christopher's not on a bicycle at that time. In fact, we know that Christopher is on a skateboard if he's ever moving around at any point at that time of the day. Or he's on his feet. He's walking. Those are where you see him. Or he's riding on top of the handlebars. Nobody would ever say he was riding a third bicycle. So Christopher is not one of these kids. So this opens the door to then, well, maybe two of the boys are playing with a quote unquote fourth boy. So is there a fourth boy they were playing with that afternoon? This is opening up all kinds of new questions. In terms of Michael's bike, she describes them as nice bikes. Michael's bike was by no definition a new bike or a nice bike. It was a hand-me-down bike that he'd gotten from his sister Dawn. It was a female bike where the support bar is at a lower position, so it's very distinctive. It stands out. It's hand painted to give it a more boyish appearance. The one that does have some newish appearance to it was Stevie's. But even that one had some wear on it. So if you looked very carefully, you'd realize that this is a well loved bicycle by Stevie. He's already starting to wear it in to some extent. The only thing that she even gets close to being a correct description of our boys is she does say that one of the bikes looked like it had some black in it, which Stevie's did, and that one of them had some light green in it, and that could easily be Michael's bike. But that's about as good as it gets as far as her description of our victims. Yeah. And then the part that really catches my attention is she says that she talked to the boys and asked them to go home. This is certainly something that just didn't happen. She's exaggerating this incident that she had with the boys out on the street that day. And I feel like at this point on the 10th, everybody probably in a five hundred mile radius has seen the pictures of Christopher Stevie and Michael across the nation. This was a horrible crime. It got national attention. Everybody has seen their pictures Did they say show the pictures to Narlene and say, Are these the little boys that you saw? Which one had on the green shorts? Which one of these is the heavy set boy that you saw when she's giving this description to the police officers because it doesn't match. So I'm not sure why they didn't ask her to verify that our victims were the boys that she saw. And her missing that Michael wasn't wearing a Cub Scout uniform should have been a major issue right there because Michael stands out. Yep. And we know he was wearing it all afternoon. There's people throughout the afternoon who identify him based on that uniform. What's also really interesting is Narlene is the first person since the Baileys in the door-to-door notes to say that the kids are wearing shorts. This is not a description of our kids in any way, shape, or form. Yet the Baileys and Narlene, they agree with one another. So we have a linkage in terms of the descriptions between those two. But that diverges from literally everybody else, including what their parents say. And the Baileys didn't see Christopher. Yeah, and they misidentified Christopher being out there. So Narlene's gonna continue in this interview. She's gonna take it in a different direction. So we're gonna go ahead and play the next clip. Okay. What happened was Dixie Hunsworth had asked me to pick her up at where she worked at longly at. She said, Will you pick me up and I'll get off at I Yes I will. And then where's that laundromat located? That laundromat is right there on England. Okay. Okay, and I so I Is that the one next to the flash market? Yes it is. It's right there. Okay. Okay, I I got rest ready to go and my husband went with me and my children went too. And on our way, coming down like gonna go to love, I saw Dominique and Daniel coming down the street. What time was this? This was exactly twenty minutes till ten. Exactly. Okay, they they had dark clothing on and it was not clean. You said one time that they were muddy all over? They did have dirt on them, yes they did. They did have lots of dirt on them. Which way were they walking? They was they was coming back toward Lake Shore this one. Okay, they were headed back w west. As you were going east on the South Service Road they were walking back west and you said they were by a yellow marker on the road. There was a yellow sign thing up in the stump stick standing up and then they they was just before they got to there is where they were. Okay, as we were driving back she pointed the stick out to us and it's right there on the off ramp for seventh street as you go east down the interstate. The off ramp on to the south service road is where the yellow stick and marker was. And they would have been on the south side. And they were on the south side of the South Service Road heading west against the traffic. Okay. Who all was with you when you saw the Tabitha Hollinsworth, Ricky Hollinsworth and Mary Hollinsworth and Lil Rick Hollinsworth was in the car. I think all of us was in that car together in that night. Were those all your children? Your husband and your children? Right. Okay. And did you s didn't you say that you also saw had your were you driving? yeah. And you you say you turned your bright lights on when you saw so you could definitely see See who they were. Yes I did. And I'm the death Dominique and Damien look like that because No, don't look like it is. And I got a close look and I said it sure is. All right, these people are known to you, is that correct? These people are known to you, Dominique and Damien. How long have you known them? Well I don't really know Damien 'cause I don't go around because all the bad things I hear about them. So therefore I don't let my children go around I've known Dominique all her life. Why you told her on my hip when she was six months old lady. At this time. Okay. Okay. So we start the second clip with the exact time of day. Narlene explained that it was exactly twenty minutes until ten o'clock or nine forty PM. And she said that they know that because they had their watches and they knew what time it was. So that's interesting. We have talked about time many times in here because people are guessing, they're estimating, they're trying to put their day together and this is their best guess as to what was going on at what time. Narlene is telling you she knows exactly what time it is. This may be the only one in this case that she has this pinpointed down to the minute. So at 940, they had their watches on. They are driving to pick Dixie up from her job and they encountered Dominic and Damien. And a quick note on that. She explained that she didn't know Damien all that well, but she knew Dominic because she'd been on her hips since she was six months old. Yet she does not appear to know her name is Domini. Yeah, it's a serious problem. It's hard to say that you're familiar with a group of people other than visually and then say their name completely wrong and you've known them your entire life, that kind of thing. It's very bizarre. She does give a couple of important details. She says that Dixie works at a laundromat on Ingram near the new Flash Market, which is consistent with what LG Hollingsworth's statement to Ridge was. Remember, Ridge was saying, Where were you? And he says, I was over at the Flash Market. Well, the Flash Market is right next door to Dixie's laundromat. After Damien and Domini watched Jason mow his uncle's yard, they went to a laundromat to call Damien's mother. Yeah, and it's Alexander's laundromat, which is not the same laundromat that Dixie works at. So for the first time we now have confirmation from the parties involved that this is not the same laundromat. Though it's on the mind of the police that they want to find out what this is. And this of course now falls apart. The laundromat connection is not really a strong connection. Probably not what they were originally suspecting that it was. To give a comparable for the time, she's saying nine forty, this is the exact time. We had our watches on. This is something that the West Memphis PD puts a large amount of credence in. If you got your watch on, then we're gonna take that time to the bank every single time. Well, what is happening at the same time at nine forty near the crime scene? Well, the search was already in full force at nine hundred forty. Regina Meek's mosquito incident had just happened ten minutes prior. The fourteens had already gone across the pipe bridge and had returned after speaking to the people over at the Blue Beacon and had also done a very quick search in the area of the unnamed creek. Officer Moore called Was searching Devil's Den with Mark Byers at this time. Pam and Terry Hobbs had arrived at Devil's Den at that point, and Pam began searching in her uniform for the very first time right around this time. So this is the time that they're saying Damien was out on the service road with Domini. The gunshot had happened 40 to 50 minutes earlier. And just as a little reminder, we covered this extensively in episodes two and three. And now you can see why we went through that exercise of two full episodes of explaining. when these things are happening because this is an important timeline to compare to when Narlene's saying that she sees Damien out on the service road at 940. And how far would this service road sighting be from the searchers? Well the location she's putting them at is this yellow stick on the off ramp toward seventh street from the I-40, I-55 interchange. So the yellow stick is probably just a standard traffic reflector stick. That is designed to caution people so that they don't run off the road in that area. There's a series of them that are on that off ramp that take you to the service road that then goes over to Seventh Street. They're still out there to this very day. And if we accept that that is probably the stick that she's referring to, and it sounds like it is, then you're about a half mile west of the Blue Beacon. So when you're going from the Blue Beacon to the west today, you would go all the way over to Cracker Barrel and then another tenth of a mile further. So a total of about a half a mile to the west of the Blue Beacon. Towards the cracker barrel. Back then there was no cracker barrel, but that's where she's claiming she would have seen them. As just as you're coming off the freeway, you would have run right into them on the side of the road. So Narlene saw Damien and Domini walking west back toward Lakeshore Trailer Park at approximately 9:40 PM at night, a half a mile from where people are searching for the boys around Robin Hood Hills. And she claimed that. She thought it was Damien and Domini. They turned on their brights, like their headlights, the bright lights, to verify that it was Damien and Domini, that they were both wearing black and they were dirty. This is her description of what she saw when she turned on her brights. Yeah. And the last part that I thought was pretty important is she gives a roster of people that she has in her car with her that the police could go and ask, can you verify the story. And this includes her daughter Tabitha, her husband Ricky Hollingsworth, Mary Hollingsworth, which is the 10 year old, and quote, little Ricky, little Ricky being her thirteen to fourteen year old son, was in the car. And so she described that as my whole family was in the car when they were going to go pick up Dixie at 940 that night. I would warn at this point that especially if you're new to this case and even if you're not that You might want to start keeping track of what Hollingsworth says which people are in the car, because that's going to change over time and with whichever Hollingsworth the police are speaking to. So you might want to keep track of who is in this vehicle and allegedly saw Damien and Domini on the service road. After Narlene and her family see Damien and Domini on the service road, they continue on. to the laundromat to pick up Dixie Hollingsworth. What did you do then after you saw them? Well, I was upset about it with them being out that late and around that area, but you know, I was wondering what they were doing out at that time of night, but my husband told me to quit worrying about it. They're out all the time. He said he sees them all the time. So he told me to quit worried about it. So then when I talked to Dixie Hollinsworth, I got to the laundry man, she said L G Hollandsworth had just left them there in some call. And I said, Huh, that's bunny She said it is, I said, Yeah me it is. And she never did say why and I never did say why I thought it was funny, but I thought of God and he just left there and they were coming down the street. So then when I talked to Dixie about it, I told Dixie what I had seen and she said, Yeah, that is kinda odd. I said, Yeah it is. I said, Dixie, that's those little children and later on I found that they were dead. I said, Dixie, that's awful odd. They were at that time writing those little kids were dead, don't you think? She said, Yes, I yes I do. I said, Let me ask you something, Dixie says, You know Damien better than me. Do you think that he's capable of of anything like that? And she said, Yes, I do. She said, Because he's he's in with the devil and you do So as you can tell from the background sound on this clip, the storm is intensifying. It picks up right around the midpoint and you can hear those raindrops hitting on the roof there pretty intensely as they're having this conversation. So you're gonna hear rain in some of the clips coming up. It's gonna be pretty hard to be able to decipher and interpret what's happening. And so we're gonna give some kind of aids. To get us through these clips because they're very difficult to understand. It is hard to understand, not just because of the background noise. But basically, Narlene was saying that they arrived at the laundromat. And upon arriving, she found out that LG had just been there and that he had left in quote some car, unquote. And that in addition to that, they decided that that was strange. They just saw Damien and Domini. And then Dixie had seen LG and they're in close proximity. So were they together? Did they do something together? Were they meeting up? Had they just met up? These are questions that they're asking. And, Nileen asks Dixie if she thinks that Damien is capable of killing the kids after she finds out that they're dead. And Dixie, in this later conversation, says, Yeah. Damien's in with the devil. Yeah. She doesn't want anything to do with him. What's really interesting is that Narlene is openly admitting he doesn't really know Damien but knows his reputation. But the car situation really catches her attention because for the most part, LG's ride is Narlene all week. And then all of a sudden he shows up at Dixie's. And that catches her attention, right? That he's got some car, which she's been his ride to get a job and some other things. So it's gonna catch their attention. These are actually important points to put into the back of your mind because they're gonna come back up again. The details matter in this situation. But the key part here is that Dixie says that LG just left in some car. She also asks Dixie if Damien is capable of doing something like that. And Dixie then tells Darlene that Damien is, quote, in with the devil. So it shows that Dixie has some knowledge of Damien. So the question now for the West Memphis PD is what is the relationship between Dixie, where she has this knowledge of Damien and Damien, right? What is the relationship there? And why is LG visiting with her? Is she a witness to something that happened that night? Is she a part of this? This is a question that Narlene is planting in the West Bempfest PD's mind during this interview. So you would think they're gonna run right out to talk to Dixie, but they won't. That'll be a ways off before they have that conversation. So for the next clip, there's an unfortunate circumstance that plays out, which is that you have the rainstorm, but on top of that, Detective Dabbs is going to get paged to the West Memphis PD and he starts having a phone call in the background, and you'll hear that phone call. And so it makes it a little convoluted and difficult to follow what's happening in this next clip. While you're listening to it, what I want you to do is follow the conversation between Diane Hester and Narlene Hollingsworth. She's giving some very important information. We'll come back to what is happening in the background here in a moment with Charlie Dabbs because we can actually pick up what he's saying. To the West Memphis PD as a side conversation. But listen to Narlene first, and then we'll read to you what Charlie Dabbs is saying in the background so that you have the complete picture. Unfortunately, it sounds muddled, but like I said, follow Narlene and follow Diane Hester. So the next day What time the next day did you find out? It was it was late well, when I come down I come back over in this area again, Thirsty. Because I promised LG that I would take him to work 'cause he didn't have no way but me. Okay, when I come back down the street I seen a white car that belonged to a I guess it was a policeman or undercover car, you know, and there were two others out there too, and there was a crowd of people gathered around. And I said, Huh, that's unusual. You're talking about right here at the corner. Right back down here. Corner of Barton fourteen. And I said, something bad happened. I just know it. And L L G was an account. About what time of day was that? let's see, it was Well, he had to be at work by ten o'clock. Ten o'clock in the morning? Right. Okay. So they were all gathered up there and I didn't know what was going on. I had no idea, you know. Somebody beat me. Okay. So anyway I went on down and LG was sitting back around thinking looking back and said, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me on the work. So anyway I I went on down him on the work. So then later on that day he got off more early. What time? I I don't know. I know he come to my house about two thirty or four to three. Okay. And I thought he'd be working later and that's a signal when he came. But anyway, my kids started home about those kids. You know. I know about those kids. So this was after school sometime. Yeah. Yeah, it was definitely after school 'cause my kids had already made it home. You know. Okay, and the kids said And later on that night he came over in a yellow car with a box in some. Now what was in the box? I don't know. The kid said the box was about fifty, something like this. And so they didn't know what it could make. But he said, Don't look at it, don't touch it, don't step on it or she she showed what's his name? She showed about the size of a shoe box. The width of a shoebox. Okay. Wider than a shoebox. yeah. And the kids were in the car with LG? No, they were out there around the street. David and then the South Service Road right there. Okay. And what did your children tell you about the box? Right there. They were walking back and went up. Look at that maybe though. I don't know. Ingram Street. And I don't know if it's smiles out to the kids. Okay. Almost ten o'clock. Anything else? And she said that well they were muddy and dirty with I talked to my sister. And she went over to their house and to L G and she said it was wet when it's shaking and very upset that they had very little to do with them. She came all the way through. I Deborah I got funny feelings about that thing. And she said I did either. When was this? That she was over there. I think it was last night. But she said they're whispering around and they're acting off funny. All right, when she says they are, who does she mean? She's She means the mama and the daddy and the son. She said, I don't know, what's going on over there? She said, But there's a lot of whistling around and she said, It made me nervous and I she's a question girl. Uhhuh. She said, Now I got out of there. I said, Yeah, I get bad feelings around them things. And I tell something I will not do. I will not take up for one of my kids when I know they're young something. I will not take up for them. But I don't know what LG's are capable of. I don't know I'm not saying he would do and I'm not saying he wouldn't do it. But I I know Daniel. Everybody says Daniel would. I know we're supposed to have a little six six six on the two. And your husband and your children saw him and Dominique both. Yes, ma'am. They didn't know where they did that. And where's your husband now? He's at Davis' Tower Shop. Davis's Tower Shop, uh-huh. And that's in Memphis. Right. What's the phone number? All right. Is there breaking? Calling for you sure is scary. You scared somebody won't kill. So that audio, just like I warned, is extremely hard to follow. So what I'm gonna do is put some bullet points of things that she's saying from the transcript. You can always download the transcript, it's on the Callahan site. But just for the purpose of the podcast, I'm just gonna give some quick summary bullet points. And then once I'm done going over the points of what's happening between Narlene and Diane Hester, I'm gonna tell you what Charlie Dabbs was saying on the call in the background. So the first bullet point, which is On Thursday morning, around 10 a.m., while driving LG to work, Narlene noticed a white, possibly police undercover car, other vehicles, and a crowd gathered at the corner of Barton and Fourteenth Street. This, of course, as a side note, this is where Michael Moore lived, and this is where Christopher Byers lived. This is where the Byers of the Moors lived. She sensed something bad had happened and proceeded to drop LG off. The second major point that she made was that LG got off work early that day. and arrived at Narlene's house at around 240 to 245 PM. That'd be after school, once her children were already home. The third major point is Narlene's children later reported that LG came by that night. So Narlene has picked LG up. He's there with her and then somehow he's disappeared and he's now returned. Okay, just to give you this gap that's happening here in her story. Narlene's children later reported that LG came by that night in a yellow car. carrying boxes roughly the size of or slightly wider than a shoebox. He warned them not to look at, touch, or step on the boxes, or he would hurt them. The kids were outside near the car when this happened. So they have direct knowledge of this box that he is defending in this yellow car that he has. The next major point that she makes is that Narlene spoke with her sister in law, a woman named Deborah, who had visited LG's house apparently the previous night, but she doesn't actually say when, and observed the mother, father, and son whispering, shaking their heads, and acting nervously, which made the sister in law uncomfortable and caused her to leave. The next point she makes is that she expresses unease about LG, stating she did not know what he was capable of. She also mentioned that Damien was said to have six six six on his shoes, and that her husband and children had clearly seen both Damien and Dominique. And the last point she makes in this clip is that Narlene's husband, Ricky Hollingsbirth, is reportedly very frightened that someone might kill him. Just a couple of things to add to those points. I think it's pretty obvious in the interview that Lieutenant Hester is showing Narlene a map because when she talks about where she saw these police, she's like, right here on the corner. And Narlene says yeah. And she says, on the corner of Barton and Fourteenth, and Narlene says yeah. So I think she's clearly pointing to a map to make sure that Narlene is pointing out the correct location. Also, it's a little bit bizarre because she's contradicting herself. Just before this, she, Narlene, mentioned that she didn't know Damien, that she had spoken to Dixie about Damien because Dixie knew Damien better than she did. And then in this interview, she's saying that she knows Damien. She knows he's evil. She knows he has 666 on his shoes. So clearly she's getting that information from somebody else because in her conversation with Dixie, she doesn't know enough about him, so she asks Dixie about him. Yeah, that definitely stands out. It's one of the big contradictions she throws out there. On the one hand, I don't know him. On the other hand, I know him. There's one other part of this before we move on to the final clip here, which is there's a conversation between Charlie Dabbs and somebody at the West Memphis PD. He's on the radio or on some type of conversation. You can't actually hear the other person speaking, but you can hear Charlie Dabbs clearly on the recording. And so I Did the work for you, so you don't have to do it. It took me hours, but I finally was able to piece together everything that he said. And it basically says this. He says, Dabs, because he's responding to somebody. He's calling to the West Memphis PD, he's identifying himself. Dabs. Did somebody beep me? Yes. What's his name? Jason Baldwin? Okay. We're taping this right now. Damien and them were at the South Service Road, right there on the Seventh Street off ramp where the streets, like Where you're getting off the interstate there, right there. They were walking back west. She was driving east north to Ingram Street to pick this lady up, approximately almost ten o'clock. And she said they were muddy, dirty looking. And she said they stood out. And she said, Why are they so muddy and stuff? And she said she turned her bright lights on and she definitely recognized both of them. But should finish taping this and were retracing all the steps. All right. That's the end of the conversation he has in the background. So clearly he's reporting in real time what he's learning from Narlene about these suspects that the West Memphis Police Department are so very interested in. And what's also really interesting is the name Jason Baldwin has brought up. He doesn't offer it. Narlene never mentions the name Jason Baldwin a single time. Yet here's the West Memphis PD reaching out to Charlie Dabbs saying the name Jason Baldwin. Sir we're gonna go ahead and wrap up this interview with the final clip that is a roundup of everything they've been talking about, some final details, and boy, are there some new final details thrown in there that are pretty interesting. What are his working hours? from seven in the morning to seven six in the eight because I live all the Is there anything else you you need to tell us while we're we're writing all this? He said, No, I wasn't. I said, Yes, you was, 'cause 50 hours will tell you I just missed you. He said, after you start lying, you're gonna be gotten to murder those children because they don't wanna why you're out. He said, All right, then I was there. I said, I know you were. And I don't know why. And that was after And then he came after And that was Thursday That was today. Today? I went there to pay my husband's fine of twenty five dollars 'cause he got in trouble and he got a D D U L thing. I think that's what he said five dollars. But that was today. like the day I went down there, the family side, LG come running out of the building where the police department says the police department on this side. He said, Well you go in there and tell me you're my mama, I said, No, I a story and money. He said, I don't know but she won't come up here with me I said, Well I said, They'll ask you some questions, you answer I said they'll let you go. Unless you start telling a bunch of lies and they catch you in a minute, they won't get telling. He said, Well I Well I wasn't over in that area that time. I said, Yes you was, LG And then he said, Okay. And I was. I said, I'm not your mom. He said, But if you start saying that Dane, then you're gonna get in trouble. I said, Well he said, The mama's up there saying stating that he was that dog Dame was with her all the time. I said, Well then the mama's a liar, ain't you? He said, And you seen him coming down the street, I said, Yes, L Gene, I'm not lying for him. I'm not scared of that boy and I'll go. well you get yourself a new controller and I'm gonna take care of LGBTQ. Ricky Hollingsworth doesn't get off till seven tonight. is there anything else that you know of we may need six, six, eleven, thirty. But you said it smells horrible. The kids the kids that what day was that on? That was thirsty. Real late thirsty. 'Cause it's that school kid that done that already got out on you that out of school. Okay. And in court Friday he said he had to get rid of that car and get it back to the person that owned it. F finally the person walked in the courtroom and got it. He said, I'm getting my car. What did he look like? He was short and heady and dark hair no. And that's dressing balls and guy like a kid with a woman. He's short he was kinda short, yes. He wasn't about what age was he? he looked like he might have been in Around forty five fifty years old. Forty five fifty. Right. Okay. All right. Well I think Charlie's getting that now. All right, bye. All right. well anything else right now. Okay. It's four thirty six and we're stopping the tape at this time. So obviously the audio, just like in the previous clip, is very challenging to hear because of the thunderstorm. There's actually a conversation happening in the background where Lieutenant Hester has a conversation with somebody back presumably at headquarters or a colleague somewhere in town exchanging information. We're gonna come to that here in a minute. But let's go over these summary points really quick. First one is that Narlene describes confronting LG at the police department that day, which is to say May tenth, the day that Damien is also at the police department, where he begged her to tell officers that he had not been at the laundromat that previous Wednesday night. So he's denying this to her, and she says, I refuse. She's refusing this. And she's citing Ricky Hollingsworth's report that she had just missed him there at the laundromat and pressed him until he had admitted that he had been present. At which point she says that he said, You're right, I did, I was there. The next point is that she warned LG that's That continuing to lie will lead to him being charged in connection with the children's murders and that the investigators would question why he lied. The next thing that she says is LG also urged her not to make statements about Damien, claiming that Damien's mother said he had been with her the whole time. Remember, we had gone over Damien's alibi, and Damien said I was with my parents that night. And Pam is there at the police station, tells that to LG. Damien was with me, and LG is now relaying this information to Narlene. Narlene replied that she had seen Damien coming down the street and would not lie for him, adding that she was not afraid of him. The next major point is that Narlene mentioned being bothered by children coming down the street late Thursday afternoon after school let out, carrying a box that LG supposedly had, which smelled horrible and that they did not want to open. And the last summary point is that she noted that LG had to appear in court on Friday to return a car to its owner, described as a short, heavy man with dark hair. approximately forty five to fifty years old. And the recorded statement then would end at four thirty six PM in the middle of this really torrential thunderstorm that ultimately would leave about an inch of rain during that period of time, about an inch of rain, which is going to swell all the creeks and rivers in the area. It's gonna have a dramatic impact on the crime scene, it turns out. There's some interesting stuff in this clip for sure. Gnarly just happens to be paying a fine that her husband incurred at or near the police department when LG is there to be questioned by the police. He sees her. She says l goes outside the the police department and speaks to her, begging her to come in and give her story, but the way he wants it told, which is he was not at the laundromat. So that's interesting that she just happens to encounter him while she's there paying this fine for her. husband. What a coincidence. Right. She seems to be at all the right places. Like Narlene saw the three victims. She saw one of the suspects, came close to seeing maybe another suspect. Now she's at the police department paying a fine at the same time that LG's being questioned by the police. She's all over the place. It's interesting for sure. It is interesting. And it's to the point where LG's not going to be done with the police. She's thrown so much shade at LG at this point and Damien, but Damien's already there at the police department being questioned. So we're not even done with Damien. We're going come back to him. But LG is gone home. And now the police department has some additional questions. They're clearly going to want to ask him. So the next day, on May the 11th, he's going to come in for another interview. And at 11 o'clock, he's checked in. For his polygraph, and he's mirandized by Bill Durham. And how does he do on his polygraph? Well, according to the remarks on his polygraph from Bill Durham, he claimed that in his pretest interview, he didn't know the boys had been killed until Thursday at 3 PM when his aunt told him. Presumably this would be his aunt Narlene. Yes. And that At the time he had not been in Robin Hood Hills since January or February of that year. But the most important part is the very last statement in the remarks section, which says, Deception indicated number eleven says he suspects Damien. What the exact question was that was asked is not in the record that we have, but we can infer what it probably was, which was, Do you know who killed those boys? And he probably originally said, I have no idea. No, I don't know. But ultimately says he suspects Damien. And of course, Damien is on the other side saying the previous day, I suspect LG. Now they're pointing fingers at each other. And it's interesting because based on the interview with Narlene, Narlene claimed that LG wanted her to help Damien out. Because Damien has apparently told LG what his alibi is. He was at home with his mother that night. That's what Narlene is claiming LG said to her that Damien was with his mom. He wasn't at the laundromat, he wasn't walking down the service road. He was at home with his mom. And so he's asking Nileen to help alibi Damien, but he suspects Damien. And Damien suspects him. So it's a really interesting, intricate situation. I don't know what their true feelings are about each other, but they're clearly both willing to throw each other under the bus when they're talking to the police. So Right in the middle of this questioning by Bill Durham, the West Memphis PD receives a phone call. We don't have the recording of this phone call, but we have the sworn affidavit from the police officer who received it, and it reads the following I, Diane Ramsey, received a call at approximately eleven twenty-three AM on five eleven ninety-three from a male subject that stated he had killed the three boys. This is our anonymous caller calling a second. So LG and Narlene are both interesting in in different ways. Obviously, Narlene's not a suspect. LG is a suspect. Narlene makes LG a suspect in her tip. So that's interesting. And then LG asks her for her help to get out of the situation that she helped put him in. And y she says, I'm not lying for you. I'm not gonna say what you want me to say, because I don't lie. However, as we have noted several times. On this episode, some of the things she says don't add up. Yeah, we have deep questions about some of the stuff that she's saying here. They don't add up. There's significant problems with some of her timeline issues, but we'll be covering that extensively. But imagine your aunt doing everything in her power to keep you on the radar screen of the West Memphis PD in the middle of a triple homicide, one of the most infamous triple homicides in American history, is playing out and she's constantly saying, Hey, it's my nephew. It's my nephew. He's got six six six on his shoes. it's his friend. His friend has six six six on his shoes. He's laundering his clothes. He has a stinky box. There's rumors of body parts being moved around. This is a complete unmitigated disaster playing out for these young teenage people that are being analyzed for the crime. And if you're listening carefully, they're dropping Jason Baldwin's name in the background during the interview with the West Memphis PD. Jason Baldwin hasn't spoken to the police since May ninth. And basically he got cut off from questioning and he's not talking to anybody, yet he's still in the conversation whether he wants to be or not. We did not spend the time to try to figure out what Lieutenant Hester was saying in the background in that last clip. But it has definitely piqued our interest. If it piques your interest and you would like to listen to the audio. And try to figure out what she is saying. We would love to hear it. So if that's something that you would be willing to contribute to, please post whatever you decipher somewhere in the Facebook group. Or if you're not in our Facebook group, please come join. Or you can, you know, message it to us on another platform. We would love to have your opinion on what she is saying in the background. If you want to join the discussion, we strongly encourage you to contribute to the case by following Crooked Tree Pod on Facebook on X. Or to follow us on YouTube. Next time on Crooked Tree. Did you were you contacted by the family of Damian Eccles? Yes I was. And when was that contact? May tenth of nineteen ninety three. my a note that I made after I got to West Memphis where Mr. Eccles Being questioned indicated that the call was around 545. My notes indicated that at 620 I asked to see Damian Eccles and was refused as my memory is that that was at the main on the main floor of the police station in West Memphis at the main desk.