Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Killer 'Shark Tank' Contestant Allegedly Murders Teen Daughter of Ex: Revenge!

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Killer 'Shark Tank' Contestant Allegedly Murders Teen Daughter of Ex: Revenge! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Body bus with Joseph s gotten More. One of the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: most historic waterways in history is the Thames, and it's
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the way it's spelled is not the way it's pronounced.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: It's actually th h A M E s. But it's
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: the Thames. Sounds like a guy's name Tim. The reason
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: it's so historic is it has It has been a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: waterway that has been used since prior to Roman colonization
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: in England, goes back thousands of years, and just beneath
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: the surface there is all kinds of history that can
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: be found there. You know, old pilings they have found
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: where the Romans had constructed bridges. You can find broken
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: old clay pipes out there, and every now and then
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: you'll find things like weapons and spoons and things have
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: just been tossed over just from the centuries of use.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: But every now and then you'll come across something even
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: more interesting in the Thames. Sometimes you'll find broken people,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: perhaps floating in the Thames today on body backs. That's
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: what we're going to discuss. A person apparently so broken
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: that they decided to throw themselves off of a bridge
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: into the Thames, not to take their own life, but
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: perhaps because they have taken the life of others. I'm
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags, Dave. There
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: was a time where in London where you could not
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: get near the Thames. It had such a foul odor
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: and a lot of it. Yeah, and a lot of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: it has to do with with uh, with raw sewage
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that had poured in there and all these sorts of things.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Hold on, Joe, before we get too far afoot here,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I want to hear about the Thames and ross sewage.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: But today we're actually dealing with a murder mystery. A
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: big time TV show and a winning contestant and an
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: entrepreneur all rolled into one. And by the way, it
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: all fits into this murder mystery that was revenge for
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a bad breakup. Not kidding the victims, fourteen year old
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Inez Dibadeaux and her thirteen year old best friend, Amelia Ferrero,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: and possibly another woman will tell you about her in
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit, But these two girls actually were given
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: chocolate covered raspberries as a treat, but when they ingested them,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: they ended up in the hospital. Four days later they died.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: They were poisoned with a colorless, tasteless, odorless poison called Thallium,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: the Murder of Inez de Badeaux Amelia Ferrero. That's the
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: episode today, and it is it's not fascinating. It's not
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: a murder mystery. It's a murder in real life. It's
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: disgusting and raw, much like the Thames was back in
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: the day. But Joe, I know you've got incredible stories
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: about Great Britain. I know you love it over there,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: but what do you find fascinating about the Thames.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: One of the most fascinating things that I absolutely adore
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: about the Thames is that if you travel along the river,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: you'll come to what would have been a little village
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: at one point in time, but now it's all part
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of London called Greenwich. And we've heard of Greenwich, Connecticut, right, Well,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Greenwich is actually where Greenwich, meantime comes from. It's literally
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: where time starts. And I've been to the museum multiple times.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: They've actually got the original measurements for the Imperial inch,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the Imperial foot, the Imperial Yard, and you can go
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: into the museum and this is quite fascinating to me.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: And if I'm not mistaken, they have the original rope
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that sailors used in order to measure knots. You know
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: how we use miles per hour kilometers per hour, well,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: you know, or sailors they use knots, you know how
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: fast something is going in a vessel in the water.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Fascinating place. There's this gigantic red ball there and it's
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: all dented up. Interestingly enough, because during I think it
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: was during one of the wars, a bunch of the
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: people that occupied that space up there tried to use
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: this thing as a soccer ball. And the thing is gigantic,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: it's metallic, and they started knocking it about. Now it's
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: kind of sealed off and it's got dents in it
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: and everything. But for years and years they have these
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: clocks that are there at this museum and or actually
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the spot where time is established, and they're set so
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: that when it gets to the top of the hour,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: say at noon, this ball would ascend into the air, okay,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: and all of the ships on the Thames, which went
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: all around the world, would send up signals to indicate
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: what the time of day was. It's before obviously before
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: we had the ability to even have telegraph to send
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: out messages like this, and people would go back because
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: you know, you can go to a variety of different
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: areas all over the world, and time is different everywhere
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you go, right, so you never know what you're going
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to find in the Thames. The reason I'm telling you
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: all of this about this area is that in today's episode,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: we're actually going to be talking about a woman who
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: apparently fled to Great Britain and when she arrived, seemingly
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: she felt like she had literally arrived at the end
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: of her rope. I guess, you know, threw herself into
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: the tyms. She was found and she is still alive,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: but Dave, she's facing some very serious charges.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing that the headline of the story is
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Shark Tank contestant. When you see the headline Shark Tank contestant,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: you're thinking, Hey, I probably know who this is. I
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: might have seen them on a commercial, a promo or
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: on the show if you I don't even know the
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: show is still on. But if you're in the US
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: and you see that, you know the problem is this
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: is not in the US, because that's the first thing
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: I did, all right, Where was this?
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Because they have TV shows around the world, and you
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: know they have it's shocking to some when you go
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: to another country, and you go, hey, wait a minute,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: that show's big Bang theory. But I don't understand what
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: these people are saying because they're speaking, you know, a
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: different language. Yeah, it happens, and Shark Tank is no different.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: The woman we're talking about here, who is actually accused
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: of attempted murder and murder at this point, was on
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Shark Tank Colombia, North America. Yeah so, uh, Zulma Guzman Castro.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Zulma Guzman Castro, that's your name. She is in her
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: mid fifties, going to be polite. I don't know why
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I should be. But apparently she used chocolate covered raspberries
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: to poison on purpose another human being and it worked, Joe.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: She did poison another human being, actually two human beings,
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: a fourteen year old girl, iez de Debau who was fourteen,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: and Amelia Ferrero thirteen. These two little girls ate chocolate
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: raspberries and died.
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: Joe.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Now, I don't know what kind of evil you are
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: to take chocolate and raspberries and use those as a
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: delivery for death.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't either, because we're just you know, uh,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: Christmas is in our rear view mirror, and uh, my
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: family one of our family members actually sends Kimmy and
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: I a package from David's. Have you ever heard of David's.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: They do like moose tracks and all that sort of stuff,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: And contained therein are these.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: As my name, but something I can't afford, you know.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I couldn't afford it either. But they've
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: got these. Uh their their raspberry I think, or maybe cherry,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but they're they look like hard candy,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: but they're not. And contained inside is like chocolate of
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: mouse watering right now as a matter of fact, and
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: they look so delicious. And and listen, I I uh
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: talking about London. I went to if you ever get
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: a chance, you need to go to Herod's when you're
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: when you're over there, because they have got a candy
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: section that is just unbelievable and it's all handmade, dude.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: And they had chocolate covered cherries there, all manner of
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: different kinds of chocolate covered fruit. And think about these kids.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Is there anything more tempting to a child time? And
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: that that oh, I say, what you did there? Uh yeah,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I'll make sure to put some out when you come over.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Okay, no it happening.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I am never eating anything that I don't make myself
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: or no. I am seriously considered everything.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: That is terrifying. I mean it really is, you know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: because the thing about Poisoning Day is that it is targeted,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: but yet it is in its own way. It's it's
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: non specific because you don't know who's going to pick
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: something up. I mean, you really don't. It's it seems
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: as though that we've just recently covered a case about
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: poisoned wine I believe, didn't we yes, we had yet,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and so you don't know who's going to pick up
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: a bottle that you've laced it. Think about the talanol,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: the talanol murders that took place all those years ago,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: and that's a randomized kind of thing. It's not like
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: it's not like you know, you hear those old spy
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: stories where people would you know, the guy with the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the details. That Soviet Bloc came up
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: with the umbrella and it had the little radioactive ball
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: and he injected it into the guy's skin, you know.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: With the umbrella. Now that's that's targeted. You're going specifically
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: for them, But you put out a plate of something,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: my Lord in Heaven, that's that's horrible stuff, man.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Well, the saddest reality here is that this, actually, Joe,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: is another story that begins with an interpersonal romantic relationship
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: that ended after six years, and our suspect, she has
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: not been convicted. She is still a suspect. She is
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: actually accused of taking out her anger on her former
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: lover boyfriend.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Whatever you are when you're that age. I don't know.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: That her motive was to get revenge for him breaking
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: up with her after six years. And I'm thinking, if
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: he broke up with her after six years, Joe, and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: this is her response, don't you think he saw a
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: few things over the last six years that kind of
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: tipped him off that maybe she wasn't as balanced as
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: she might appear when she's on TV Shark Tank trying
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: to win a contest.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean precisely. And you try to take the
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: measure of it, and you wonder if if there was
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: anything disgregious that was on his I mean, one part
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: of me is hoping no, because if this is something
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that is on your radar and you you know, you
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: don't react to it, or you know, identified if you're
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: still going to allow children to be around this person, Yeah,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: that's very sinister.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: It's very very dark.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Man.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: You have something else that hit me? It just did
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: I apologize for not? Okay?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: You know, we've been dealing with the Teppe murders up
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: in Ohio and where Monique and Spencer are allegedly murdered
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: by Monique's ex husband. Now, Spencer and Monique had been
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: married for five years, and Spencer Monique had been divorced
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: from doctor McKee for you know, three years before she
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: got remarried, So they've been apart for eight years, right, Yeah, Joe.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: In this case, the suspect here was involved in a
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: six year relationship that ended in twenty twenty. She just
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: tried to do this. They've been broken up for five years.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: They've been broken up nearly as long as they dated.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: When they broke up. This little girl that died was nine,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: the other was only eight when they broke up. Think
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: about that for a minute, and what kind of simmering
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: evil is there allegedly that would cause somebody to bring
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: about this kind of pain on somebody five years after
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: they ended a dating relationship.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the only way. It's pure evil, and it's ghoulish
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: on one level, because what I think that you begin
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: to think about this from the perspective of your hurt
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: feelings or your jealousy or whatever it is, that that
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: is more important than the lives of these people, these
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: youngsters that have been exposed to this toxin. And Dave,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: this is something that would have taken a significant amount
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: of work in order to facilitate this. First off, you
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: have to determine what your delivery method it's going to be,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and then you have to know how to handle the stuff.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: And then how are you going to get the agent
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: into this system, not just the system of the victims,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: but can you sufficiently get it into these chocolate covered raspberries.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I do know this what she
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: wound up giving these children that wound up in her
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: in their desks, and another victim who is twenty one
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: years old, actually goes by the name of the poison poison.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Out of all the substances that this perpetrator, alleged perpetrator
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: might choose, she actually chose one of the single most
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: poisonous substances known to man. And it's it's naturally naturally occurring.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Joe, Yeah, wait a minute.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: A little while ago, when Joe was telling me about
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: this particular poison and he said, it's the poisoner's poison
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: that got my attention. But when you tell me it's
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: naturally occurring, like I could go find this somewhere and
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: just obtain it and keep it.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you could if you were of a mind.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: And I think I have to ask. And I don't
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: know what the rules and regulations are in Columbia, but
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: you know here, okay, let me see, let me get
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: this right. We used to use the substance. I'll give
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: you the name of a second. We used to use
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: this substance in the US for pesticide, and they actually
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: referred to it as road inside, which is for rats
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: and mice. We stopped, we stopped allowing companies to use
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: it in nineteen seventy two. Now just think back, you know,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, it was the last of it was
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: manufactured in the US in nineteen eighty four. We knew
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: back then how dangerous it was, and after we identified
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: it at that point in time, other countries followed suit.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: They began to remove it. And this poison, which is
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: no onus thallium has it's got a myriad of uses.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: It's actually used interestingly enough in nuclear medicine and uh,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: you know the uh you begin to think about imaging,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: imaging devices, these sorts of things. It's been used in
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: that that way, it's used in uh, let's see, I
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: think it might be. Is it used in semiconductors. I'm
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: not really sure. I know that it's used in manufacturing
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: of of certain electronic devices. I believe. Uh. It's not
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: used like other other agents as a solvent though, like
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: as a cleaner you'll find it, so it's very very specific.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Here's another factoid with it. It's got what they call
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: a very uh narrow therapeutic spectrum, which means as an element,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: does it have any utility in treatment as a medicine
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: And one of the few things that it had been
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: used with in the past was treatment of ringworm, and
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: they were like, I think we'll find another way to
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: treat ringworm other than applying thallium, because I can only
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: imagine they probably had cases and they've known about the
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: toxicity for some time. It has to be very controlled.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: But this stuff is odorless, it's tasteless when prepared, it's clear.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So I think that part of this kind of name
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: that's been hung on it as the poisonous poison. It
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: goes to that. It's very very stealthy. There's no way
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to pick up on it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: But buddy, let me tell you something. The symptomology with this,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: when it is applied to an individual, it is a brutal,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: brutal death, Dave.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I know because of the way we have been talking
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: about it that it would be delivered via chocolate covered raspberries.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: I assumed it was something that you would maybe bite
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: in the chocolate and it would be dusting on the raspberries,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: you know, and that you would lick or something along,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: but you would ingest it that way.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I'm just or it could be injected. It could be
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: injected into the raspberry itself. So we don't know at
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: this point. But yeah, I mean I see your point here.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: Wow, all right, so you've got how would you discover?
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: That's what killed I mean?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Because if you get poisoned by something like that, okay,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: that you have no idea, you go to the hospital,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: or you take your child or whoever you take them
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to the hospital because they're going to get sick. What
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: kind of of what symptoms are they going to show.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: Well, some of the symptoms they're going to show. It's
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: got a lot of a lot of neurological problems that
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: arise with it. You'll see things like seizures, tremendous headaches, tremors,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: inability to talk, like dysphonia almost and you can also
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: see signs lesions on skin as well. A taxia, you know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: which is it's a where you don't have control over
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: your your your motor functions. There's like a gait abnormality,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you know, when you're trying to walk along. So it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: really attacking your neuromuscular system. Here's here's an issue with
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: this is that if it's attacking your brain and your
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: central nervous system, that way, well what controls the rhythm
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: of your heart. Okay, So as a consequence of this,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: you run the risk of having some kind of cardiac
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: event along with this. So it's a it's a very
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: slippery slope and to be able to treat someone, first off,
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: you'd have to recognize the symptomology. And you might have
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: somebody that I don't know, they could present I guess
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and if they have dysphonia or a taxia whatever the
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: case might be. You might look at them and say, oh, okay,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: this person's having a stroke. But dude, when you've got
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: a thirteen and a fourteen year old that roll in
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: in tandem, assuming they rolled in in tandem, unless they
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: died there at the scene, and this is still kind
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: of unclear at this point. Hopefully we can you know,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: maybe clarify that. But you're thinking, Okay, this is not
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: this is not someone that's having a stroke. You know,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: at these ages, how are they presenting at that point
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: in time? And then once this occurs, you have to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: flush the system. You have to flush the system immediately.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: In the acute sense. You're going to administer something that
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: will probably coat the stomach, induce vomiting, all these sorts
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: of things if you can get out of their system,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: and the course for recovery for this, if you survive,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: is long, long, long. If they can catch it in
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: tom Yeah, well.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: You know something else that came out of this, okay
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: we're talking about this is okay, the six Uier relationship.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: There are five years, you know, six yeer relationship that
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: was going on, and the man who was involved in
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the relationship with with zul M Guzman Castro.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: He was married at the time.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: They were in their relationship and he broke off the
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: relationship with her, and a year later his wife died
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: of cancer. They suspect, they being law enforcement, now suspect
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: that she was poisoned with thallium twice before she died
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: a year after he broke up with with Castro.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, Joe, it's so deep here that.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, well it I got to tell you something
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: because this is a revelation to me, Dave. Thallium is
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: a heavy metal, you know, like lead. It followed mercury.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: It falls into that classification, yeah, arsenic. The thing about
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: the thing about thallium and heavy metals, guess what, you
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: can actually exhume bodies and you can find evidence of exposure.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I really wonder. I wonder if they're going to go
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: down that road with the wife that had passed, because
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: she's not she wouldn't just be looking at two counts
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: of homicide if they can put her adjacent to this
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: poor woman. And what did they what did they think
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: Her original cause of death was cancer?
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: They said she died of cancer in August of twenty
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: twenty one, And yeah, I.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Wonder how that diagnosis was made. And I'm not being
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to sound be a jerk by saying that,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: but I'm just wondering because here's the thing. You know,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: how I mentioned poisonous poison. If you've got someone that's
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: already debilitated with cancer, think how easy it would be
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: to push them over the edge with allium. And you
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: would just look at this death and say, oh, yeah,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: well she had cancer and she said, come and guess
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: what would not have been done an autopsy at that
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: particular time. They would just said, okay, she had the
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: big cea. She's gone on to her reward, and they
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: would bury her. Hopefully they didn't cremate her. But if
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you could go back and collect samples, you know, that
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: was one of the things, like I think it was.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I know I'll get this wrong, but bear with me.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: They had sample of Napoleon's hair and they thought that
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: he had been poisoned. I don't know if it was
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: mercury or lead, and they were checking checking those hair
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: samples for him because you can actually find you can
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: find elements. You know, it's not like that's naturally occurring
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: that it would be in the hair. Hair is generally
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: where they're going to go for this to see if
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: they can source it out at that particular time. The
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: only problem is is that that's kind of a qualifying finding.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: It's not a quantitative finding. So I don't know that
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you could ever get to the point where where you
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: would say, okay, this was a lethal dose. But even
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: more so thallium. I mean, you can't find it anymore.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: It's out there. Obviously she allegedly found it, but it's
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: not like it's floating around out there everywhere. If you
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: found thallium in this in this wife's system, boy, that's
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that's a stake through her heart legally speaking. So just
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to catch you up to speak with these victims, brother Dave,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: they were they were taken to the hospital. They were
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: taking the hospital, and these two little girls, thirteen and fourteen,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: lived for four days. Unbelievable, and I wouldn't I'm using
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the term lived, but they ain't living. It would have
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: been an excruciating, miserable existence. I find it interesting that
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: they both lived for four days and died, you know,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I think treatment wise, that gives you an indication. And
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I really wonder how long it took, how long it
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: took the medical personnel to make that assessment. You know, say, okay,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with the alium now, but if you're talking
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: about four days your system, it's not like it's just
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: kind of sitting there in your stomach. Now this thing's
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: been it's it's been uptaken into it's been metabolized. So
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: now this stuff's going through your body. You're past the
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: acute phase at this point. I major problem here.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Now it makes more sense that there was because earlier
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: when I was looking at this and it said that
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: there are two other people. We have the two dead girls,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: the fourteen and thirteen year old. That's sad enough, okay,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: But then there's another girl who also was poisonous, said
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: she suffered life changing injuries. And there was a twenty
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: one year old older brother was also a victim who
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: was hospitalized but he survived. But I'm looking at that,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I was thinking life changing injuries. Okay, I know poisons
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: do all kinds of things, but they lived for days.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: What in the world did this other yet? Maybe she did.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: It's good.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you. I can tell you. I bet you
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: dollars to donuts. It's going to be some kind of
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: life changing neurological deficit she's going to have to live
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: with and can it can come in any number of ways.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I actually think that a substance like this could in
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: fact impair your site. Perhaps it could certainly impair your
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: motor skills. And they're saying, you know, like her life
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: is taking a different course at this point. We're no
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: longer on the track that we were prior to ingestion
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: of this stuff. I would imagine that the twenty one
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: year old that survived, he was able to fill in
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: the blanks quite a bit because this is, you know,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: this is a medical investigation at this point time. I mean,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: it truly is, you know, most most folks. That's why
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I love working with nurses. Nurses what they do and
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: what doctors do to a certain extent, but certainly nurses
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: they are investigators. That's what they have to do because
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: they're having to drag information out of people. Sometimes the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: people don't speak very well, some people are not reticent
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: to give information because it's so personal and sometimes just symptomology.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: You know, they have to work through a problem because
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: it's not all cookie cutter. It's not cookie cutter medicine,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and particularly when you start to talk about some kind
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: of exotic poison like this, and you know, kind of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: work your way through it. I wonder if this alleged
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: perpetrator as her plane is lifting off to take her
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: somewhere safe. I wonder if she had this in her
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: rear view mirror. I wonder how much of an awareness
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: she had dave that of what she had done, you
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: know what kind of It's fascinating because the guy who
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: is supposedly identified as a person that's bringing all of
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: this trouble into her life, he's not physically impacted by this.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: It's these it's these other folks.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: You know, Joe.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: When we were talking about this before we started, and
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: I know nothing about ballium, Okay, it's just something i'd
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: heard of before. And now I'm trying to remember where
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I heard it because I'm a little concerned over who
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: might have said it and whether or not, you.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: Know, naturally occurring.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm thinking, and naturally I mean to me, I'm thinking,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: there's I'm making notes here.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like people watching Breaking Bad to learn
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: how they how to make meth, you know, like that's
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: not what we're doing here. It's like but this thallium
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: to think about something that is naturally occurring, that is
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: the poisoners poison. It really is taking this down a
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: much a path I never expected to go. It reminds
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: me of the mushroom cap Lady in Australia and the
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: other poisonings we've had recently where people have gone down
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: this path and the death through poison is a god
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: awful experience.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and each each particular type of poison brings about
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: it's on terror, okay, because certain things are going to
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: impact you. Even going back to a Jett Lyles, you
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: know when she had poisoned her her daughter with the
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: andro and andro ant poisoning, and one of her husbands
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: she poisons, well, do you know they had to strap
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: their arms down to the bed so that they wouldn't
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: rake the skin off of their body because it impacted Yeah,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: it impacted their skin so badly. And you never know
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: how this stuff's going to manifest. But yeah, the history
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: of it is is absolutely, you know, just positively horrific.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: Give some of the things that they we need to
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: know about our suspect here too. Joe I was looking
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: at when she was on Shark Tank in Columbia, because
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: we've got the relationship with the married guy going for
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: five years ending in twenty twenty and his wife dying
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: within a year. And they think that she was poisoned
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: twice with thallium during that time. But it was in
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty one that Castro ends up on Shark Tank
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: in Colombia. She's an entrepreneur, business person. Okay, there's an
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: electric car sharing thing in Colombia that she's behind, and
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's well thought of in the business community.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: Apparently.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I assume she was a chef, owned a cafe or something.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: That's what I assume when we started this whole thing.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: And now we find out that, you know, she would
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: have been on Shark Tank at the time she was
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: poisoning her ex boyfriend's wife.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: Think about that.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I wonder how long she's been involved with electric cars.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Thallium.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Thallium. I'm wondering. I really, you know now that you
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: say that, you know, I know that lithium batteries are used,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you know, in those things. I'm assuming, but I really,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I really wonder, because you know, thallium is used first
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: off in medicine relative to nuclear medicine, and then it's
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: used also in optics like lenses and things like that,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: but it's also used in electronics. Now that's a fascinating
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: sourcing possibility. I'm wondering, you know, if she's that involved
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: in it. I mean, man, she went on chart tank. Okay,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: not that that's the measure for everything, but I'm just saying,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: you know, I wonder, I wonder if she is only
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: on the front end of this relative to you know,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: like we're going to provide these cars so that people
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: can travel on more more interested in how it works,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: the system works, or does it go back to a
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: manufacturing phase where she's around people where she could access
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: and stuff.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Well, we do know that she was or is smart
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: enough to be able to get away from her nation,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: to get away from enter Pol. She's able to get
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: away from everybody except the Thames. And I'm gonna be
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: honest with you. If you spell something th A M
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: E S and you call it Jim, there's something wrong
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: with you. You know that's not the right way is you
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: don't spell tams that way. The themes one time and
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: I went, I know you're wrong, but I don't want
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: to correct you.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's a cop of mistake, but yeah, she
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: you know, she she was evading inner Poll and I'm
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: always a mate, you know, I'm thinking Jason Bourne here
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you know where you can, yeah, which I love the
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: whole Born series. But you know, she she went from
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Columbia back in the thirteenth of April twenty twenty five.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: She went from there to Argentina. From Argentina, she went
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: to Brazil. From Brazil, she landed in Spain and that's
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: how she made her way to the UK. And the
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: entire time she is evading Interpole. And I'm sure that there.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not just Interpol itself. You know, they
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: send out on if you've ever seen an Interpol bulletin,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: but they'll send it out to other like like the
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Spanish government. Their law enforcement wing would have this in
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: addition to it being on Interpol's radar they had. And
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: just the fact that they've got an Interpole engaged in
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: this thing, the all seeing eye is gives you an
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: idea of how dangerous they think that she is because
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: she's you know, potentially well, okay, I'll go in and
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: say it. She's potentially a mass murder and she's carrying
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: stuff with her. Did she get rid of it. I
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: have I have no idea, but I'm fascinated by the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: fact that she evaded for so long and traveled internationally
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: through all of these various ports of call, if you will,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: until she's you know, found there floating, you know, floating
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: in the Thames.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And I think that it was like a lifeboat service
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: or something that saw her. And you'll see these boats
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: just like screaming, you know, up and down the Thames,
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: and you can take high speed boat rides and all
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: these sorts of things. But you know, she's found there.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: The question is did she did she do this? Did
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: she do this in order to take her life, or
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: did she do this to maybe feign some kind of
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: mental illness. I think that she was actually put into
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: if I'm not and I think she was actually put
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: into some kind of treatment facility initially, wasn't she Dave?
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I was thinking they did that because you'd
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: have to be insane or on drugs to jump into
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: the Thames. Yeah, five in the morning on it, you know,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: in December, and yeah.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Brutal, I mean just absolutely. You know, you're not going
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to have a bunch of snow laying on the ground
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: in London, but it is cold. I've been as cold
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: in London as I've been anywhere in my life, and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: there's always a chill in that river. Though I've never
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: gone swimming in it, and I don't plan on. It
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: always looks like it would be absolutely frigid. But here
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: we are, Here we are, and now she is going
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: to be held to account for what she has done.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Are they going to be able to prove either guilt
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: or innocence? I don't know. But the path, the wake,
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: if you will, that she has left behind has far
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: extended beyond the banks of the Thames River in London.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks