Latest / Delulu with Ryan Lu / The Original Labubu Tattoo Artist Tattoos Ice Spice | Delulu with Ryan Lu #106

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The Original Labubu Tattoo Artist Tattoos Ice Spice | Delulu with Ryan Lu #106 · Delulu with Ryan Lu

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Like it's and like it's supposed to be like heaven translating
0:03
through and they do that in the church and everyone's like
0:06
praising the Lord and say like they just kind of say this sort
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of nonsense gibberish. Why is she waiting for him?
0:12
What are the end goals to be proposed to?
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I think you might need to ask yourself why you need that.
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Oh, OK, Therapy, Lulu. Hello Bessie Lulu's and welcome
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back to another episode of Delulu with Ryan Liu.
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And a very special welcome to today's guest, Lulu.
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We are joined by Joshua David Mckenney and he is more than
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just a massive content creator. He's an artist and the visionary
0:49
behind Pigeon Doll, a handmade art doll that has captivated
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millions, including myself. So Joshua Journey is a true
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testament to manifestation, personal growth, and artistic
1:01
evolution. Hi, Joshua, thank you so much
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for joining us. I'm actually so excited that
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you're here. Thanks, Ryan.
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I'm really happy to be here. Well I want to start by telling
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you my Co writer believes this is our best episode that we
1:12
wrote yet. So.
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Well, I'm honored to be the subject of it.
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Well, not to put too much pressure on you, but it is going
1:18
to be amazing. OK, I wanted to start the show
1:21
by reading you a journal entry from when we met.
1:24
Do you remember where we met? Can you tell the bestie Lulu's?
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Yeah, we met at a, it was like a mixer, afternoon mixer at Vidcon
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for Viral Nation and we were both waiting to get in, I think.
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And you, I had a doll doll bag with me that you recognize.
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And you're like, Oh my God, I follow you.
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And I was so happy to see a friendly face because I went
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alone and I, yeah, I don't know, you took me under wing and I was
1:54
kind of nervous and shy and you're like, let's go get a
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drink. And then we just kind of became
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besties for the whole rest of the.
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You kind of just read, like, my entire journal entry yourself.
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But I didn't recognize your bag. I did recognize the bag, but I
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recognized you. OK.
2:07
Yeah. So you don't necessarily appear
2:09
in your content, But because I love your content, I'm a massive
2:13
fan. I consume so much of it.
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You guys, when I met Joshua, I literally rattled off all his
2:17
videos to him. That's true.
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Like, verbatim. And then I think you were like,
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scared. I wasn't scared.
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No, I was. I was.
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I was just so grateful because you were so friendly and and
2:26
warm and it was really fun and me.
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Well, I'm happy I met you. OK well let me let me tell you
2:30
what my perspective was of this. OK so the beginning of this
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entry, June 27th, 2024, I believe this was the second day
2:36
of Vidcon and I was also alone at Vidcon.
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I was super nervous. My manager was taking a bunch of
2:42
meetings somewhere else and I was literally left alone.
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The biggest content creators in the world, y'all all in like the
2:48
same room and I was so scared, so nervy worthy and I don't
2:52
know, it just sucked. But so I'm like nervous as hell
2:55
and then let's start here. My only real saving grace was me
3:00
recognizing a creator I love at Pigeon Doll Comma Joshua.
3:04
He makes art slash doll content and I've been subscribed to him
3:07
on YouTube for a long time. It turns out he was also alone,
3:10
so I ended up adopting him and we spent the rest of the day
3:13
together. We got drinks at a happy hour
3:16
and I brought him with me everywhere.
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I'm so thankful I found him because if not I would have been
3:20
really anxious the entire day. Oh yeah, I feel the same way.
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It was great. I was, we got to, I mean, I, it
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was my first time going to Vidcon ever, so I really didn't
3:28
know what to expect. And I'm not like your normal
3:33
kind of content creator, so I'm just.
3:35
You're better. I'm not used to the like you.
3:38
Know the minutiae of it. I I totally got it.
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I was super nervy worthy too like it was my first time and
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like like I said, it was a bunch of the biggest content creators
3:46
in the world and I was like I had such bad imposter syndrome
3:49
where I was like why am I here? Like I don't even know I was
3:52
invited. Wait, were you invited this
3:54
year? I was invited this year, yeah.
3:56
Yeah, OK. I was not invited this year.
3:58
OK, wait, so do you remember that Vidcon?
4:02
Yes, that day. OK.
4:04
Do you remember what we did that night?
4:10
No. I snuck you into.
4:12
Oh yes, the TikTok party that was not.
4:14
Yeah, that was the night we met. So I had just met Joshua.
4:18
We were hanging out. We were spending the day
4:20
together. This is so crazy.
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And there was the TikTok Vidcon after party that night.
4:26
And Joshua. At the train station.
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Yeah, it was beautiful. But Joshua, you didn't get
4:31
invited to it. And I was talking to my manager
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and I was like, well, he's my new friend, he has to come.
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And I was like, we have to get him in.
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So I think I told you and you trusted me because I think I was
4:42
telling you. I was like, oh, I'm really
4:43
charming. I I can get you in.
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And I think you believed me. Yeah, Yeah, I did.
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And I was like, OK, we're take the risk.
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Come with us and we'll see what happens.
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It was such a fun party. It was like, really?
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We only stayed for an hour. I mean, I had a good time
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though. I got to see a lot of like
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content creators that I didn't see at Vidcom that like I knew
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and I followed. So it felt very like, you know,
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a star-studded night. I know it was like the Met Gala
5:02
for like content creators. Yeah, it was fun and.
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It was the venue was beautiful. Yeah, exactly.
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The location was really special and it was just kind of fun to
5:08
walk around and see everybody in person and blocked the little
5:11
red carpet. They had the photo, the step and
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repeat. And then do you remember what
5:16
happened when we left? Yes, we wait.
5:20
I don't know what you're referring to.
5:21
What are you referring to? I'm.
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Referring to the the stadium concert that was going on
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simultaneously next door that just kind of happened to be
5:28
there with the time that we were.
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So the Vicon after party was at the train station in Anaheim,
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across the street from I believe the Honda Center in Anaheim.
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And there was a Melanie Martinez concert happening and they had
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just let out. And Joshua is actually a huge
5:46
celebrity in the Melanie Martinez world.
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Can you? Can you tell everyone why?
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Yeah, well, like, so in 2013, I had just started making dolls.
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I got a message and I started a separate Instagram account for
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Pigeon Doll and but like, I didn't have very many followers
6:02
or anything. And but I got a message from
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this girl who was like, hi, I'm Melanie Martinez as manager and
6:08
she really likes your dolls. She had just been on The Voice
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and she would love to like, do some sort of collab with you.
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We live out on Long Island. Can we come to your studio?
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And I was like, I guess so. Were you in New York?
6:19
I was in New York at the time. Yeah.
6:21
Yeah. I lived in New York for most of
6:22
my adult life. I moved to LA, baby, five years
6:24
ago. Right.
6:25
Right. And Melanie and her friend lived
6:27
on Long Island. Melanie was like, 17 at the
6:29
time. She was still like a minor.
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Yeah, she was just on The Voice. So fresh off the voice.
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Fresh off the voice and I was like, yeah, if you want to come
6:35
over to see my studio, that'd be cool.
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And so she came over and we just talked about like our love of
6:40
dolls and sort of the connection that we had and sort of like
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that sort of that childhood is. I mean, she has a very sort of
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childhood play, play it's. Totally.
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Her aesthetic is very like. Youth oriented and which is
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obviously connected to dolls. It's not exactly how I do them,
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but. Right, of course.
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We still, you know, we both experienced dolls in our
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childhood. So we talked about that and we
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decided to do this sort of like online collaboration where
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because I'd like to do like contests and have people submit
7:07
art and I, I always like to use social media to like sort of
7:10
encourage art and, and that sort of thing.
7:12
So, so yes, we did this thing. It was before she'd released any
7:15
music. And we did this little contest
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where people submitted a makeup design and then I created it on
7:20
a little dull head and then we did it on Melanie's face as
7:23
well. And then we did like a little
7:24
photo shoot at the end or whatever.
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So I'm like, if you if you've been a Melanie Martinez fan
7:28
since like the very beginning, you might know who I am.
7:31
But some of those kids in the audience and like, but was this
7:36
funniest? Cuz I don't think they were even
7:38
alive when? They knew you.
7:40
They literally came up to Joshua.
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We were waiting outside of the Vidcon party and these children
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and their mothers came up to Joshua and asked him for
7:48
pictures. Yeah, they're like, Oh my God,
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are you the kind that makes a doll?
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So, you know, Melanie, I'm like, it was like, it was like.
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I know, how crazy. It was so funny do.
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You get a lot of people recognizing you.
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Not a lot. It depends on where I go.
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You know, I feel like every time I go to like Disneyland or
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someplace like that, I get recognized.
8:03
Like any sort of queer spaces, I get recognized a little bit
8:06
more, but you never really know, which is always sort of thing.
8:10
How about you? Do you get recognized a lot?
8:12
I would say, yeah, I do. Yeah.
8:13
I like it a lot. I really do like it, yeah.
8:16
Does anybody said anything weird to you?
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No, everyone's been really lovely and good.
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Honestly, I, I love when people come up to me and talk to me and
8:22
it's nice to meet everyone and it really reminds me why I do
8:25
this. Like, it's one thing to be
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online and, you know, get messages and get comments and
8:29
have people tell you what you mean to them and how much they
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impact you. But for like a best Lulu to come
8:34
up to me and like, you know, be able to hug me and talk to me
8:36
about it. Like it really, it grounds me so
8:39
instantly and it really makes me feel like I feel like I'm doing
8:42
something because I want to. I want to do more.
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Like that's the whole reason like I even create content is to
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connect. So hopefully there will be more
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opportunities soon where we can hang out.
8:53
You know what happened to me yesterday that Eric was kind of
8:56
weirded up by? Is that a fan?
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Sent me a big bag of Swedish Fish for my birthday.
9:00
Wait, how did they send it to you?
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I think. I guess, well, that's the Eric's
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like how do they have our address?
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And I was like, I think. When I leaked it, I didn't think
9:07
anyone was going to see. Yeah, well, they, they got it
9:09
and I got some Swedish Fish and I ate two of them and I started
9:12
bleeding internally and I'm just going.
9:15
To OK, so the cyanide came with it.
9:18
That's really sweet. It was very sweet.
9:20
It was, I think. Are you like, freaked out I?
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Think they, I think they just had like my, you know how like
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people can put up like their Amazon wish list.
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I don't have, I don't have that, I don't have an Amazon wish
9:29
list. But I think somehow somebody got
9:30
like my Amazon account, so they're able to send me things
9:32
from Amazon. That is so.
9:34
Which is very sweet. It was really nice.
9:36
That is really sweet. Yeah.
9:37
OK, so you weren't like freaked out or anything?
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I was less freaked out because I think, I think they wanted to
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send me some like art supplies before and so it was somebody
9:43
who had sent me stuff before. Oh, that's nice.
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But I don't. It's not somebody I talk to
9:47
regularly or no, it's all of a sudden I'm like, where did this
9:50
giant bag of Swedish Fish come from?
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You weren't like, you weren't like panicked about.
9:53
It I wasn't panicked about it. Eric was a little panic.
9:55
Eric's my husband. I was a little panicked about
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it, but. Really.
9:57
Did you like explain it not? Panicked, but just sort of like,
9:59
why did they have our address? I'm like, I think it's fine.
10:01
It's just like they're just, they're just able to send us
10:03
things from Amazon on. I love hearing from other
10:06
artists and creative people that are like you inspired me so much
10:09
I started drawing again or like you remind me so much of my
10:12
child. They like to draw a lot, like a
10:14
lot of parents of queer and gender non conforming children,
10:17
write me. And that's always just really,
10:18
really special. You know what?
10:20
When I discovered your content, what drew me in was obviously
10:23
your beautiful art and the dolls and everything like that.
10:26
But I think I told you this when I make a Vicon, it was like your
10:28
storytelling and the way they integrate your personal story,
10:31
your upbringing, and you talk about yourself and the
10:33
experiences that you've been through.
10:34
It meant a lot to me just because like growing up queer,
10:37
like relating to a lot of experiences that you talked
10:39
about. And I felt so incredibly seen.
10:42
And I would watch her videos and I would feel like just so
10:45
connected to you. I think it's right.
10:46
That means a lot. I appreciate that.
10:48
Yeah, it's it's I think that honesty as an artist or a
10:53
creative person is just so important and just sort of being
10:55
transparent about who you are. And that's kind of why I
10:59
started. I don't know, like, I mean,
11:01
being the kind of content creator that I am and especially
11:04
with like the rise of like video media, it, it changed the way I
11:08
did everything And I, I used to, I used to actually not really
11:10
show myself a lot or because I always thought that like I'm
11:13
this big masculine guy who makes these little dolls and I thought
11:16
that would weird people out. But with TikTok, you can't
11:21
really do that. You kind of have to show who you
11:22
are a little bit and be a little bit more vulnerable.
11:24
And I realized that it wasn't when I would show myself.
11:27
I realized that it really wasn't weirding people out and it
11:29
actually added another layer to my art.
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And so I just started thinking about it less and just kind of
11:36
trying to open up more and just just be more honest about who I
11:41
was and where are these dolls and where this aesthetic is
11:43
coming from. You know, well, I want to talk
11:44
about that dichotomy that you just expressed.
11:46
Like you present very masculine. You're obviously a big person,
11:50
right? And you have like the dolls and
11:52
they're all feminine. You exclusively only make you
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know, you know, female identifying dolls, right.
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So let's I want to I want to talk about that.
12:01
That's really interesting. I mean, people ask me all the
12:03
time if I ever would do a male doll or, you know, I, I do draw
12:07
a guy sometimes, but it's, it comes from such a different
12:10
place For me. The reason I'm interested in
12:11
dolls is because they are so inherently feminine.
12:14
You know, not all dolls are feminine, but the ones that I'm
12:16
interested in are. And in general, and most people
12:18
say like, oh, I have a doll, you're met, you immediately
12:21
think it's going to be a, a girl.
12:22
Like dolls are sort of have this sort of feminine.
12:25
Right. There's an undertone where it's
12:26
like, you think, doll, you're going to think like Barbie,
12:28
you're in prats, you're going to think you're it's, it's less
12:31
likely they're going to be like 10.
12:32
Yeah, exactly. And that's what that's what I
12:33
like about them. And it's also just more like
12:35
feminine fashion just tends to be a little more whimsical and
12:37
fun and playful. It like tickles you as an
12:40
artist. Yeah, totally.
12:42
And I mean, all of my life I've drawn women and been all my art
12:45
has been kind of about gender expression.
12:48
I didn't really even understand that as as a child or even as a
12:52
teenager. People would always ask me like,
12:53
why do you only draw girls? Because even before I was making
12:56
dolls, I, I only drew women almost exclusively.
12:59
I didn't do landscapes, I didn't do still lives, just girls,
13:02
beautiful. What do you think influenced
13:04
that as like someone growing up, you know, what drew you into
13:08
femininity and women? I was just.
13:11
I was just so just so completely fascinated by from a really
13:16
young age. So every cartoon character, Miss
13:18
Piggy actually was a really big one for me.
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I you. Have a tattoo of her too, right?
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I do have a tattoo of Miss Piggy.
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Miss Piggy is was probably one of the first like characters
13:25
that I imprinted on just because oh, I loved her because she was
13:28
so, so incredibly feminine and so incredibly like strong
13:33
willed. You know, she really knew what
13:35
she wanted. She dominated every situation,
13:37
but that never she didn't do it in a masculine way.
13:39
She would did it really feminine.
13:41
Like you were going to think she was delicate, like, like, you
13:43
know that, right? She.
13:44
Really owned that. Yeah, she's a really, I think
13:47
she's a fascinating character. And I could talk about Miss
13:50
Piggy forever. But so I loved, I loved Miss
13:53
Piggy and, and I loved like, olive oil, Popeye's girlfriend.
13:57
And I loved, I loved cheerleaders.
14:00
And I would just draw them all over everything.
14:01
Did you like pop stars? I wasn't so I grew up really
14:05
conservative, so I wasn't really allowed to listen to what they
14:07
call secular music, which is like any kind of music that is
14:10
not Christian. So I wasn't really allowed to
14:14
like, I, I was very interested in like knowing who like Madonna
14:17
was, but I was completely off limits.
14:19
So I, the only pop star I like was a there's a Christian or
14:23
there is a, a contemporary Christian pop star named Amy
14:26
Grant you might have heard of. She crossed over in like the
14:30
early 90s and did a song called baby, baby.
14:32
So I loved, I loved Amy Grant, but and I had I used to have a
14:34
cardboard cut out of her that my friend that worked at the
14:37
Christian bookstore gave me and I'd have these hats and I put
14:40
them on my Amy Grand. Car.
14:41
Oh my God that's so cute. I had a very Nicki Minaj cut.
14:44
Out. Really.
14:46
I'm a I'm a huge Barb. Well, you said you grew up
14:49
conservative, right? So how does your family feel
14:52
about you really expressing deep interest in just femininity,
14:55
right? I think that so the religious
15:00
side of my family mostly comes from my mother.
15:02
My, my dad was not raised religious, but he sort of
15:04
converted for my mother when they started dating.
15:06
They dated in high school. And my mother, although she is
15:11
very religious, she actually grew up in a family with very
15:14
sort of like artistic men, we'll say.
15:18
And so she was sort of used to like grandfather, like loved
15:23
literature and he would call square dances and he loved
15:26
history and he wasn't like your typical like machismo sort of
15:29
guy. And my mother's brothers were
15:33
also like that. So I was always kind of like,
15:36
even though like when I was like, mom, I want to wear, I
15:40
want to wear a wig or mom, I want to play with makeup or that
15:42
sort of I want. To play with all.
15:44
Like two or three four like. Really.
15:46
Like, really young. Yeah.
15:47
You know, what's fascinating too, is my mother kept.
15:49
I'm the oldest in my family. I'm the oldest of four.
15:51
And my mother kept a really, really detailed baby book of me
15:56
growing up that I still have. And she's really, although she's
16:00
very like, conservative and she's really honest in it.
16:04
So like, I'm like two or three years old and she's like, Josh
16:06
is obsessed with Miss Piggy every.
16:08
He only draws girls with pig noses.
16:10
I can't get him to like focus on anything.
16:12
When she was expressing. Yeah, so she'll, she'll, she'll,
16:14
she'll think it's cute for a while, but then she'll write
16:16
about how she is concerned that I'm too focused on feminine
16:19
things and that I and that I'm asking to wear.
16:22
Dresses that you could possibly be queer.
16:26
I don't think she had that language.
16:28
She knew. That I wasn't acting like a
16:31
normal boy. And she knew that that wasn't
16:33
like it wouldn't. She knew that that would send
16:35
off like red flags in the community that like I was.
16:38
And what is this community? So my mother grew up Lutheran,
16:42
but when we moved to my I was born in California, but my
16:45
family moved to Florida when I was 3 and they sort of started
16:49
hanging out with a lot of like evangelical, like non
16:53
denominational Christians, which is like where you like speak in
16:57
tongues and you like cast demons out of people and you're like,
17:01
you're like, like you're it's like the language of.
17:03
Angels, What are they doing? They go like, like it's and like
17:07
it's supposed to be like heaven translating through And they do
17:10
that in the church and everyone's like praising the
17:12
Lord and say like they just kind of say this sort of nonsense
17:16
gibberish. Should not be laughing.
17:18
It's like you. Laugh at it.
17:19
It's I mean what you know, it's, it's, I mean, I'm not doing, I'm
17:23
not probably doing it with any sort of seriousness.
17:25
So you're laughing at my that interpretation of it, but.
17:29
I mean, that's the only reference I have, yeah.
17:33
So I, I grew up in that sort of that community where, and then
17:37
when I was 9, my family moved to Lancaster, PA, which is like
17:41
Amish country. So although my family is not
17:43
Amish and I didn't grow, I didn't like, I don't have any
17:45
family history there. The church we went to was a
17:48
Mennonite church. So there were women in our
17:49
church that like had to wear prayer coverings and weren't
17:51
allowed to wear pants and like, very, very, very conservative,
17:55
but sort of on the other spectrum.
17:57
But they would still do the slain of the demons and casting
18:00
them out and the talking in tongues.
18:01
And that that was part of it. It was a weird.
18:03
You're coming from like a very repressed, like just upbringing,
18:07
right? Just like coming from a
18:08
conservative family and then also being an Amish country,
18:11
right? And you have these feelings,
18:13
you're expressing it through your art.
18:15
Do you feel like that was the medium that you chose to be able
18:17
to express that? Because did you ever, like,
18:19
present yourself feminine? I so like I started, I started
18:26
sort of rebelling when I was probably like about 14 or 15
18:29
years old and I had. To find rebelling.
18:33
Like dressing for my like not trying to fit in anymore.
18:35
So like as so I, I was in 3rd grade.
18:39
I was pulled out of elementary school because I was getting
18:42
made fun of so hard because I was a really effeminate child.
18:45
And it happened because this girl, I was sitting on the
18:50
playground by myself because nobody would play with me at
18:52
recess. And this girl ran up to me and
18:54
she threw a tampon at me and she said, you're going to start your
18:56
period soon. I thought you'd need this or
19:00
something. Wait, what's her name, do you
19:01
know? Her name is Amy.
19:02
Fuck you, Amy. Amy.
19:03
Amy, what's her name? I know her full name, but I
19:05
won't. I'm not going to call her out.
19:06
I have looked, I have looked her up before.
19:07
I've never found her again, but yeah, excuse me.
19:12
She's little, little little thing too.
19:13
Like I mean, third grade, right? Like so young to be having these
19:17
sorts of faith, but I I got bullied all the time.
19:20
Like like I was just such AI was such a a sad, lonely child and
19:25
art was the only sort of escape that I had.
19:27
But so my mom pulled me out in 3rd grade because.
19:30
Because of the bullying. Because of the bullying and
19:32
started homeschooling me and so I was homeschooled all the way
19:35
through high school. Was the rest of your siblings
19:36
also homeschooled? For a while they were, I
19:38
thought, I don't think any of them graduated from
19:41
homeschooling. I'm the only one that went all
19:42
the way through like that. But so that's third grade and I
19:49
think I started rebelling when I was like 1516, which.
19:53
Was I had a quick question, Yeah.
19:55
Was it mainly girls bullying you?
19:57
No, it was everybody it. Was everybody it?
19:59
Was everybody, but a lot of girls bullied me too.
20:01
How did that make you feel? Cuz you like, really like women.
20:05
It was like popular girls that would bully me and I think, I
20:10
mean, it didn't make me feel good for sure, but it I don't
20:13
know, I don't, I think when you're being bullied, you're not
20:15
like, oh, it's from a girl, so it hurts even more.
20:18
Like it's just just people being mean to you.
20:21
Yes. You know, I mean, I wanted girls
20:24
to like me more because I liked girls.
20:25
I wanted to hang out with girls. I wanted girls to like.
20:27
Me, you like them in a way where you were like.
20:29
You're attracted to them, but not in the way where you're like
20:32
attracted to them. I wanted to like, I wanted to
20:34
like, you know, cartwheel with girls and like hopscotch and
20:38
jump rope and that sort of stuff.
20:40
Like I was, I was. I've always been more
20:41
comfortable around women, which is one of the reasons I sort of
20:43
gravitated towards them artistically as well.
20:47
But. You sort of rebelling 13/14/15.
20:50
Yeah, so like, you know, so up until then, I was just trying to
20:53
sort of mask and fit in as best as I could.
20:56
And around 1415, I grew up, I had some really cool guys that
21:01
lived on my street and they're all kind of artsy and we're all
21:04
still friends. And we all started, we kind of
21:09
supported each other and rebelling.
21:10
So we started like and I, I, I kind of led the way a lot of the
21:13
way, but it was cool to have a community to do it with.
21:15
But we started like dyeing our hair and like dress.
21:19
We would shop vintage clothes and we would start stressing as
21:25
a way to like kind of stick out or like kind of.
21:26
Like and this is all in the arm of country.
21:28
Can you swear on this show? What Can I swear on this show?
21:31
You're allowed to say bad words. Oh, like what kind of?
21:35
Like fuck or like if they say sorry.
21:40
Oh. I'm sorry, Should I leave?
21:45
I'm sorry. I'll excuse myself.
21:46
Can we, like, cut that? Yeah, you can cuss here.
21:48
I'm still kidding. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
21:51
fuck fuck fuck. You hate it here.
21:56
We started, we started fucking with people like the way we
21:58
dressed and, and you know, we would, my friends would make
22:02
like I remember he, my one friend that lived across the
22:04
street really wanted silver pants 'cause he saw a guy on MTV
22:07
with silver pants. And so he bought a space
22:09
blanket, which is what like hunters wear if you, like,
22:12
accidentally fall into a lake and you're about to get
22:13
hypothermia. Is it the shiny thing?
22:15
It's really shiny. Yeah.
22:16
So he, like, made his own pants out of that.
22:18
And like, we, I don't know, we were just like very punk
22:20
rock'n'roll kids together. And I forgot why I started
22:24
telling. This story.
22:25
So this is when you started rebelling?
22:26
Yeah, I started rebelling a little bit and that that really
22:28
like it really sort of I, I was closeted until I was in my mid
22:33
20s, but I was even as a teenager, I was, I didn't act
22:37
like a closeted person. I was very like, I didn't date
22:40
guys. But as far as like how I outly
22:42
presented or expressed my interests, I never really
22:46
repressed that I didn't, I didn't try.
22:48
I I didn't mind if people thought I was gay and I stopped
22:52
being like ashamed of like who I was or what I was interested in.
22:55
So how did you go on that journey to finally like accept,
22:58
just like letting yourself come out and then also just fully
23:00
embracing who you are? Because obviously you mentioned
23:02
your upbringing was very repressed.
23:04
You come from a conservative background.
23:05
You're bullied for those exact things that you know you finally
23:09
are able to embrace. So I moved to New York to go to
23:14
art school when I was 19 and I probably came out when I was
23:17
about 24. And I really needed that time
23:20
away from like the community and the people that I was raised in
23:23
in order to sort of process and deconstruct it a little bit.
23:25
So I really was able to kind of come out once I was able to
23:31
change my worldview a little bit and understand like, like you
23:34
have to just like I was raised were so conservative.
23:36
Like I didn't, I didn't understand what evolution was
23:39
like I didn't, I was raised to think that like God created
23:41
everything and Adam and Eve and all of these things are real.
23:43
And if you don't have another way of thinking about the world
23:47
to back that up, it's that's just the world you live in.
23:51
So I had to sort of teach myself like about science and.
23:56
And this is all happening after you leave Amish country and
23:59
you're in college now in New York.
24:01
It was even like kind of after college a little bit because in
24:03
college I was just kind of like working so hard at at school.
24:06
That, well, wasn't it like a giant 180 for you?
24:08
Because, like, New York now, right?
24:09
And now you're in art school. Yeah, I mean, I, I mean, it's
24:13
what I it's all I wanted. Like I I became obsessed.
24:15
I mean, around that same age that I started rebelling, I also
24:17
started buying fashion magazines because I was like, I fuck it.
24:19
I want fashion magazines. I love, I love this.
24:22
I'd have to hide them from my mom because she thought she
24:24
thought of them as like that they were like pornographic or
24:26
something. She's like some of these models,
24:27
I don't like the way they're dressed.
24:28
She thought it was like looking at them for other reasons but.
24:31
Yeah. So I had these.
24:33
I would like hire like Harper's Bazaar for my mother and Vogue
24:36
and stuff. I had subscriptions and I
24:38
remember when they would like come at the beginning.
24:40
Of you'd have to like. I would stock the mail.
24:41
Well, we had like one of those mail slots, you know, And so I
24:45
knew that if the fashion magazine would come in before
24:48
my, if my mom saw it, she would throw it away.
24:51
So I'd have to wait for it to come and then I'd go run up to
24:53
my room and like hide it under my bed and like look at pictures
24:55
of Kmos. It was like very, it was very
24:59
funny. But yeah, I just became obsessed
25:01
with fashion as a as a teenager. And all the designers that I
25:06
liked went to Parson School of Design.
25:08
And so I just got it in my head that that's where I wanted to
25:10
go, and I did. How did you bring this art Hitch
25:13
doll to your content and started making videos like what were
25:17
your expectations like? What did that look like for you?
25:19
I started making video content in 2020, like a lot of people
25:22
during COVID. I before that I had a fairly
25:26
healthy like Instagram following where I would, you know, because
25:28
I have a photography background, I was able to produce like very
25:31
highly polished photos of pigeon dolls.
25:33
And I had like, you know, a, a healthy, a healthy audience.
25:36
And what was great about that era is that I would get a lot of
25:39
like makeup artists and designers and people that would
25:42
do pigeon doll makeup looks. So that was like a whole thing,
25:44
a whole era. Inspired by your.
25:46
Work. Yeah, inspired by my work.
25:47
And that's that's really when I was like, OK, this, this is
25:50
really worth putting energy into.
25:53
Like it wasn't. I wasn't necessarily selling a
25:55
lot of dolls at the time, or I wasn't even trying to.
25:57
I was just kind of making them and photographing them and
25:59
whatever. But I would just see this
26:01
reaction I was getting from people and girls would be
26:03
painting themselves blue and making these elaborate
26:06
headdresses in order to look like my dolls.
26:07
And I was like, OK, there's something, something's here
26:10
that's resonating with people. Yeah.
26:12
And it was just the best. It was the best feeling in the
26:14
world. It still is.
26:15
I get like emotional and I talk about it.
26:17
Yeah, and I see a lot of it around Halloween, too.
26:19
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I still I still get, I
26:20
still get a lot of it. It's it's different now that
26:22
it's a video content, but it was this era where I would get at
26:25
least like 10 to 15 looks a week, you know, and I would post
26:28
them every Friday. But that must be so for.
26:30
Gentleman artist, you know. Oh, it was amazing.
26:32
It was the biggest. It was the highest compliment
26:35
ever. You know, just because.
26:37
But they were good. Like really like not just like,
26:40
oh, I'll put like a heart on my cheek or like they would just
26:44
full on paint themselves blue or full.
26:46
On they were so committed to being committed.
26:48
Yeah, yeah. It was just really special and
26:51
really it just mattered a lot to me.
26:54
So yeah, I just started before that I was working as an
26:56
illustrator and I just kind of slowly transitioned from being a
27:00
freelance illustrator into being like sort of a full time doll
27:02
maker. And then during 2020, to answer
27:04
your question, I started, you know, like a lot of people just
27:08
watching Tik Toks and I got kind of, I started learning the
27:11
culture and how to edit a video and how to make it sort of
27:16
compelling. And I at first I would just film
27:19
myself working and let TikTok edit it to a song.
27:25
And eventually I was like, I'm going to try to do a voice over.
27:28
And I had this idea for a voice over in the middle of the night.
27:30
And I wrote it down and I was like, you know what?
27:35
I'm, why don't I just do it right now?
27:37
So I just sat up in bed and did this place over over and over
27:39
again until like I hit the, the cadence that I wanted or
27:42
whatever. Yeah, posted it and I went to
27:44
sleep and I woke up the next morning.
27:45
It was my first video to ever like hit 1,000,000 views.
27:47
That's crazy. And and that's when I was like,
27:49
OK, I think, I think there's something to this.
27:52
So that knowing that I had this sort of like sense of editing
27:57
and skills and storytelling a little bit, I started exploring.
28:00
It well, that's exactly what dreaming to your content, which
28:02
is storytelling. Yeah, yeah, right.
28:03
And then I wanted to ask like exactly that when did you start
28:06
doing your storytelling? Like you had that idea of doing
28:08
that voice over, right? For do you remember what story
28:11
that was? Yeah, I was just, I was just, it
28:13
was, it was, it was very cheeky little video where I said, oh, I
28:16
was painting a doll. How much make up she can wear a
28:19
lot of make up a lot. A lot of makeup.
28:21
Yeah, it goes like that. And then at the very end I go,
28:24
does she look like a clown hooker because she just had like
28:26
so much makeup at the end of the video as.
28:27
Always the consensus. That she did look like a clown.
28:30
Hooker, but in a. Good way.
28:31
It's like, but you know, like, you know, I made it.
28:36
It was funny. My delivery was funny and and it
28:38
was. You know what this is like what
28:40
my Co writer likes a lot about your videos is that you're just
28:42
so deadpan when you're delivering the things that
28:45
you're saying. Because then you'll make a video
28:47
where you'll be like, I was so excited to show everyone at
28:49
school my show and how and no one cared and video ends.
28:54
Yeah, it's very yeah, that that's yeah, I I I'm not always
28:57
funny in my videos, but I try I. Do you reckon?
29:00
Do you clock when you are funny? Are you intentionally trying to
29:02
be? Yeah, for sure, for sure.
29:04
I I mean every, everybody. Is because you are funny.
29:07
Sometimes, Thanks. I'm not like, yeah, I don't
29:09
really consider myself like a, a funny, funny person, but every
29:12
once in a while I'd like, I know how to deliver a joke, you know?
29:16
That's funny, Yeah, I think. I think even you explaining how
29:20
you perceive how funny you are is funny because I think like
29:24
the way you speak, you just have such like a soothing like
29:28
podcast voice. Like, you know, this is truly a
29:31
treat for the best you Lulu's right now because the way you
29:35
speak and express yourself is so it's just it's, it's soothing.
29:39
Like it's nice. Thanks I I hated my voice for so
29:42
long. I also I also really hated my
29:44
voice for really a long time I feel.
29:45
Like it's I feel like everybody I talk to that does any kind of
29:48
like talking to the camera, like has to get over that hating to
29:51
your voice, but under the point now where I can hear it and be
29:53
like, that sounds good. It sounds good.
29:54
All right. Yeah, I'm at.
29:55
I'm at the point now where I like my voice, like I want to
29:57
hear myself. I used to really not like it.
30:00
Hate it, hate it, hate it. Like if anyone played my videos
30:02
in front of me, I would be really like cringe and be like,
30:04
turn that shit off right now. Yeah, well, like it and share it
30:06
and then turn it off. Yeah.
30:09
But now I I, I feel like I do like my voice now.
30:12
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, full circle.
30:14
Full circle. Thank God, because we started
30:16
this show, so I have to hear it so much more like that.
30:19
Yeah, well, I wanted to play a game with you.
30:21
OK, we're gonna play Guess the Zodiac sign.
30:25
OK, so I already know you are a Taurus, You just had a birthday
30:29
and you celebrated in beautiful Yosemite.
30:31
I did. So we were going to play and
30:33
guess the Zodiac sign with the dolls you brought Olive in a net
30:37
and the broken heart mask. Yes, I'm curious to hear what
30:40
hear what he said. I told Ryan ahead of time that
30:43
he wasn't allowed to say that Olive in a net are Pisces or
30:47
Geminis. Geminis just just because
30:49
they're just mermaid sisters, they can be those things if you
30:53
really feel it. OK, well, let's let's get into
30:55
them. Tell me about them.
30:56
Tell me about Olive. Can you show Olive?
30:58
Yeah, so, so all of so. OK, so I'll get into the whole
31:02
story. So I have AI have a line of
31:03
accessories that I started this past year that's all kind of
31:07
inspired by my dolls in my work. And so there's like a purse that
31:10
looks like a doll head bag that Ryan.
31:12
You know what else? What?
31:14
You gave me this art at my OH. Yeah, that was actually before
31:18
my mermaid sisters because I was still kind of playing around.
31:20
I feel like this is your like the was this like an early
31:24
conception of that like? Yeah.
31:26
I love this by the. Way.
31:27
Yeah, I'm glad I. Framed it.
31:29
Well, so I didn't even talk about this in my childhood, but
31:30
like my really my main obsession as a child were mermaids.
31:34
I loved, loved, loved mermaids and I would draw them all over
31:37
everything. I was known as Josh, the guy
31:39
that loves mermaids. When I was really young and
31:41
really fixated on mermaids. They just, there were no mermaid
31:45
toys. Like the fact that I liked
31:47
mermaids was a very like unusual thing.
31:50
It was very niche at the time. Yeah, which is not.
31:53
They weren't popularized is what you're saying.
31:55
They're not popular. Like now you go to like a toy
31:56
store and there's probably like a whole mermaid section and all
32:00
these little and they sell mermaid tails for kids and like,
32:02
it's like a thing now. Yeah, totally.
32:04
But when I was little, it was like, like you, I, I, there was
32:08
this girl that lived down the street for me and I wasn't
32:09
allowed to play with dolls, but she had a Barbie collection and
32:12
she would let me play and I would take her.
32:14
She had this one black pair of leggings and I would take her
32:16
Barbie and shove both the legs into the one legging set, tuck
32:20
the tail, tuck the other leg into the hip and then tie a
32:22
Tutu. Around tie.
32:24
A Tutu around her feet. Yeah, to make a mermaid doll.
32:27
And I'd be like, yeah, it's a mermaid.
32:29
And her mom told me she's like, you're not allowed to play
32:31
Barbie with Jenna anymore because you're stretching out
32:33
all her doll leggings. But.
32:36
Damn strict as fuck. Yeah, but like so so like
32:38
anyway, loving mermaids is like this this part of my identity as
32:41
a child for a long. Time and it's evolved into olive
32:44
in Annette. It's yes, it's evolved into
32:46
olive in Annette. So like, well, I think because
32:49
mermaids became popular, I felt like my love of like the
32:52
traditional mermaid was sort of less, became less interesting.
32:56
So then, but what I think about is interesting about mermaids is
33:00
that a lot of queer people, a lot of trans people all love
33:04
them as children. It's a common thing that I've
33:05
learned. So a few years ago I started
33:08
drawing reverse mermaids and like like this and with the legs
33:13
because I love legs too. I love drawing legs.
33:14
I love like a little elegant dancer legs.
33:17
And so I was drawing reverse mermaids where it's a fish head
33:20
and with human legs, but I was kind of drawing it as a costume,
33:25
which is what actually what you have right there where it's.
33:27
She's wearing the fish. She's wearing the fish.
33:29
You can see she has a little dull head that's sticking out
33:31
and her little hand is sticking out.
33:33
So it's kind of like a Halloween costume or something.
33:36
And that's how I was drawing my reverse mermaids for a while.
33:39
And then this past year, so when I released my accessories line,
33:45
I came out with a set of earrings, the devil and Angel
33:48
marionette earrings. So there's a little devil and a
33:50
little Angel and each side kind of like on your shoulders, like
33:52
your conscience, you know, but they're, they're earrings and
33:54
they were really popular. It was like the most popular
33:56
thing that I designed for that season.
33:58
So I was like, OK, what's my follow up for that?
34:01
Obviously people like this sort of mismatched earrings or it's
34:03
saying I'm like a little asymmetry.
34:05
I was like, oh, I could do like the, you know, the mermaid and
34:07
the reverse mermaid. So I'm actually wearing, I'm
34:10
wearing a net right now who's her reverse mermaid.
34:13
And she has these little legs that you can kind of they, they,
34:16
she moves. I don't know if you can see that
34:18
on camera, but I came up with them as earrings first and.
34:24
So these were the original. These are the original but in
34:27
order to like cuz everything I design, I have to make like a
34:29
video about it cuz I'm a content creator.
34:31
So. So it's like, well, how what I
34:33
I'm going to make dolls of olive in and that and as even before I
34:36
named them, they were just like the mermaid sisters.
34:39
I'm gonna make dolls of the mermaid sisters and that will
34:42
promote the earrings. So these are the dolls that I
34:44
made to promote the earrings, but they were so the earrings
34:48
were even more of a hit than the Angel devil marionette earrings.
34:51
And I was like, I think these are characters and I think
34:54
there's a whole universe here. So I've, I'm just kind of in the
34:58
not in the beginning phases of it exploring that, but like, I,
35:05
I don't know, I'm just kind of playing.
35:06
I like them. I feel like they have
35:07
personalities and there's more to them.
35:10
There's more to this universe. So I'm like, well.
35:11
Tell me about the personalities. Yes.
35:13
I'll get them. Yeah, we also have these paper
35:17
doll versions of them. Yes, this one is Annette.
35:22
Joshua's wearing her on one of his ears right now as well.
35:25
I am. And then this is Olive.
35:27
I have these, they're in my office.
35:29
They're articulated. They're articulated paper dolls
35:32
with gold foiling. So I don't know if you can like
35:33
kind of see. There, I love the gold, Yeah.
35:35
Yeah. OK, well tell me about.
35:37
Them these are well these are the 3D versions that I made so
35:40
these are the first you want to hold in here you hold and
35:45
they're they're also articulated so they kind of kick and they
35:47
like and I can play around with them a little bit I'm still like
35:51
developing them, but I I sculpted them myself and 3D
35:53
printed them just to kind of like physically make them so.
35:56
This is so beautiful, Joshua, Oh my gosh.
35:58
Thanks. Wait, did you hand paint these?
36:00
I did. Oh my gosh, I feel like I
36:02
shouldn't even be touching them. Like.
36:05
Let me give it back. Oh.
36:08
OK, no, you can help them. I'm just kidding.
36:13
So yeah. So they have different
36:14
personalities. I'm still kind of exploring it,
36:15
but Annette is definitely like the sort of like like, well,
36:19
actually should you? Do you want to read them first
36:20
or you want to hear about them and then give them?
36:22
Their well, I want to know their personalities, but for the
36:24
bestie Lulus, who aren't watching on the video version of
36:26
the podcast, which you can watch on Spotify, this one is Olive.
36:30
She is the traditional mermaid. So fishtail woman top.
36:34
And then Annette is the opposite of that.
36:37
So human legs, women legs and a big fish face.
36:42
Big fish face. Well, OK, what are their
36:44
personalities like? So Annette is more like like
36:48
rambunctious and rebellious and kind of fun happy go lucky and
36:53
Olive is more like sort of melancholy and.
36:56
Oh, I can see that on her face, Yeah.
36:58
You can kind of see it on her face.
36:59
She looks a little bit like a, like a, like a St. almost or
37:02
like sort of a. 100% you. Know she has this sort of
37:05
somberness to her, but she's like very romantic, kind of
37:09
quiet, a little more soft spoken.
37:12
I think I have a gas. OK, so so Ryan's going to give
37:15
them their Zodiac sense 'cause they don't, they don't have them
37:17
yet. OK, I think, I think all of us a
37:19
cancer. Yeah, like sensitive.
37:23
A water sign. You know what I mean?
37:25
And then how else did you describe her?
37:27
You said like she's I don't want to say cancers are sad, but
37:30
like, yeah, she's like she's like in tune of her feelings is
37:34
what I want to say. She's embracing it, you know.
37:36
So I think that gives me cancer. OK, well, it gives me cancer is
37:39
very kind for her, yes. So do you agree with that?
37:42
Sure. Yeah, No, that sounds about
37:44
right. OK, cool, so she's a cancer.
37:45
OK, she's a cancer. And then?
37:47
Cancer's a crab. Yeah.
37:49
Yeah, that's a good Yeah. So water being.
37:51
I like that. Right.
37:53
And then I would say Annette. So Annette is the fish head one.
38:01
OK, She's a Libra. I really want to say Pisces, but
38:04
like I'm going to go with Libra. She's just like beautiful.
38:07
She looks romantic to me. She looks very balanced.
38:11
Like I know it's kind of like a interesting juxtaposition
38:14
because if you look at Annette, it's just like women legs and
38:18
then a giant fish head. I don't know if that feels
38:20
balanced to me. Yeah, I mean, I feel like you
38:23
can see maybe in the in the 2D version, you can see a little
38:25
bit more of like her sort of personality in her in her face,
38:28
but. She's giving Libra.
38:29
She's gorgeous. Like, she's so pretty.
38:31
She is, she is very pretty. And that's kind of the idea
38:33
behind the mermaid sisters. It's like exploring different
38:35
kinds of beauty because you look at Olive and she's sort of a
38:38
more traditional beast. She has golden hair and she's,
38:41
you know, very willowy and then she's beautiful.
38:45
But Annette is also really beautiful, even though she has a
38:49
fish face. And that's kind of like it's
38:50
just there's different ways to be beautiful.
38:52
And that's sort of like the not the main message of the mermaid
38:55
sisters, but it's sort of an underlying theme is exploring
38:58
these idea, this idea that beauty is is everywhere and it's
39:02
multifaceted. And absolutely.
39:04
And I love like, exactly because they're sisters.
39:07
Are they twins? No.
39:08
So they're sisters. Yes.
39:09
I like that they're sisters. And like, they both have their
39:12
individual, like, beauty to them.
39:13
Like I wouldn't say I think 1 looks better than the other.
39:16
Yeah. Well, actually, not that I would
39:18
say 1 looks better than the other.
39:19
I am really drawn to a net. Yeah, yeah, she's the one I have
39:22
like. Most people are drawn to and
39:23
I've been doing drawings of them on my lives, like recently and
39:27
asking people in the comments like which which permit sister
39:30
do you like the most? And almost everybody's like, I'm
39:32
in a, I'm in a, I'm in a, everybody likes a net, so that's
39:35
fine. Yeah, it's nice to see.
39:36
Like what, people? Well, how is this collection
39:38
going to evolve? I'm.
39:41
You have the paper dolls, which are available right now at
39:43
pigeondoll.com, PIDGIN, doll.com.
39:47
They are. We also have the earrings
39:48
available in silver and gold, so you can wear a little a little
39:51
in that and olive on your ears. Where's this collection going?
39:56
I'd like to do, I'm not sure if I want to do like a children's
39:59
book or AI might. I might even like kind of.
40:04
I think my bigger goal is I would love to like have like an
40:06
animated series about them and really expand the world a lot.
40:09
You. Know, have other characters and
40:12
I have, I've been playing around with that visually.
40:14
I, I started writing it down and I realized that I'm because I'm
40:17
a visual artist, what I really need to do is draw them.
40:20
So I've just been, and that's kind of what I've been doing
40:22
recently. It's just drawing them.
40:23
Over and over again. I think so.
40:25
I think this is the thing I'm I'm I'm manifesting next.
40:29
The more time I spend with them, the more I'm like, I really, I
40:32
think this is my not life's work, but like this is what I
40:35
should be doing right now. Absolutely.
40:37
And I feel like if you're feeling drawn and called to it,
40:39
then you should continue to explore it.
40:40
So I want to talk about your manifestation journey.
40:42
And obviously you mentioned that you grew up conservative and
40:46
your family was conservative and you lived in Amish country.
40:50
Did you always want to leave that, whether it was like going
40:52
to New York, what you did for college, or just like really
40:55
visualizing, like trying to get out of there?
40:58
I think as soon as I was old enough to get to New York on my
41:01
own, like where I like had a driver's license and I could get
41:04
up there 'cause I grew like where I grew up in Pennsylvania
41:06
is maybe like 4 hours from New York.
41:08
So it's not, it's like you can do it in a day.
41:10
As soon as I started going to New York, I was like, this is
41:12
where I wanted to be. It was so I was so excited by
41:14
like billboards and seeing. Were you just visiting
41:17
initially? Yeah, I was going for like, I
41:19
would go for like concerts. I went to go see Bjork there,
41:23
and that was a really, like, formative experience.
41:25
The Hammerstein Ballroom, I would usually drive into like
41:29
Newark, NJ and then park and then take the PATH train over
41:34
and then just get off in the city and try to walk around.
41:36
I didn't really know the layout very well at the time, but.
41:38
Would you be going alone? No, I usually brought friends
41:40
with me. Like I think I've read Amanda
41:43
once and I, I think like sometimes like the church that I
41:47
would go to would go to New York as well, but you would have to
41:49
go to like witness to people. And I was never, I never wanted
41:52
to do that. I even though like I still
41:56
identified as a Christian as a teenager just because it's all I
41:58
really knew. I really had a hard time, like
42:02
actually like doing the stuff because I just, I just didn't
42:04
feel it. But yeah, I would just go to New
42:07
York any any opportunity that I got.
42:09
And then when I got there, I was just, I was, I could feel how
42:12
happy I was and, and stimulated and excited.
42:14
And, you know, we, so another thing we used to do, because I
42:19
was homeschooled, my mother used to take in Japanese exchange
42:22
students to, to live with our family.
42:24
And we would always do a trip to New York.
42:26
So there'd be like maybe like 4 different Japanese exchange
42:30
students living with different homeschool families.
42:32
And there would be a trip into New York for the students.
42:36
But then we would all go as a family as well.
42:38
And I didn't know this at the time, but the, the guy that was
42:41
like running the foreign exchange program was a gay guy.
42:45
And I, I remember we were like walking around the West Village
42:48
or something. And in the window of this store,
42:51
they had these thigh high red patent leather boots.
42:55
And I remember just looking at them and being like, wow.
42:58
And he like totally picked up on that.
43:00
I was like, he's like, you like those boots, Josh.
43:04
He totally, he totally got it. And at the time, I was like,
43:07
yeah, I do like, but I didn't. I like, you know, little things
43:10
like that where you kind of are picking up on like queer culture
43:12
and these little. Things you know, but you weren't
43:14
really exposed to that until you were coming into the city.
43:16
Yeah, yeah, exactly. There was.
43:17
I would have never seen boots like that, of course, where I
43:19
grew up. So like I was just like, wow,
43:22
yeah, you know, of course my mother, if she, I don't think
43:25
she was even there, but she would be like, those aren't for
43:26
nice girls or something like that, you know, it's.
43:28
Like they're for every. Girl, they're for every girl.
43:30
Yeah, yeah. So you know what's interesting?
43:32
You are in a place where you doll maker, of course, but you
43:36
don't even necessarily reference yourself as such.
43:39
You talk about how it's more of like your makeup artist or you
43:43
do hair and you're just expressing it onto the doll.
43:45
And the dolls are like essentially a form of drag.
43:47
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I, I always describe what I do as, as, as
43:51
very adjacent to a drag expression because it's very
43:54
much about expressing femininity and it's a part of myself and I,
44:00
I very much steer away. I, I do do them for jobs and
44:03
work and stuff, but I try not to make dolls of people, of
44:07
celebrities of like it's of other people's intellectual
44:13
property. Of course, I don't do like a
44:14
doll of like Disney's a Little Mermaid.
44:17
You know, we. Didn't do like a doll of like
44:19
Nicki Minaj Spice or anything like that.
44:21
Well, I I said I do them for work.
44:22
I'll. Do.
44:23
I'll do I'll do a doll for for a job of of people and it's but I
44:27
mean, even but even then there's sort of a line if like if I
44:30
think it makes sense or not. Yeah, well, that's super
44:32
exciting. Obviously, I'm a huge Barb and
44:34
Joshua's dolls were in the Ice Spice, Nicki Minaj, Princess
44:38
Diana music video. Because you made them for Ice
44:40
Spice and Nicki. I did.
44:41
I did. That was so exciting.
44:43
That was a really fun. Yeah, I got this e-mail.
44:45
It was like, I got this e-mail being like, would you be
44:48
interested? I just found your work.
44:50
Would you be interested in making a doll for an Ice Spice
44:53
video? And I was like, oh, yeah,
44:55
totally. Like she just kind of come out.
44:56
She was like super like, you know?
44:58
Like Melanie? It was, I mean she was bigger.
45:01
I mean she was. Melanie hadn't had any music out
45:05
when I. She was just fresh off the show.
45:06
She. Was fresh off the show or some
45:08
high spice like Munch had come out and like.
45:09
She's already blowing. Up.
45:10
She's already blowing up. She's she.
45:11
I was. Like, wait, do you still talk to
45:13
Melanie? I have her phone number and her
45:15
address I sent her. I just sent her some mermaid.
45:17
Sister, I just sent her some Swedish fish.
45:19
Oh really? Oh, did.
45:20
You. Yeah.
45:20
It was just her birthday. Yeah.
45:24
I don't talk to her all the time, but we, I mean, I've
45:26
chatted with her in the past year, but we're not like super
45:28
close or anything. OK, cool.
45:29
Yeah. But we're she's a guest on the
45:31
show coming up. Cool.
45:32
I got this. So yeah, I got this e-mail
45:35
asking if you want to do this thing for Nicki or for Ice
45:38
Spice. And then I wrote back and I was
45:40
like, yeah, of course. And they're like, they're like,
45:41
actually, it's a Nicki Minaj and Ice Spice video.
45:43
So you would have to do Nicki too.
45:44
You'd have to do Nicki, too. And I was like, OK.
45:46
And I mean, I signed, I signed a whole like NDA or whatever, so
45:51
there's only so much I can talk about.
45:52
But but basically what was cool about it is I was like, well,
45:55
what are they going to be wearing in the video so I can
45:57
make the dolls look like that? Yeah.
45:59
And they're like, we don't, we don't know.
46:01
They just kind of show. Up like free range?
46:03
Yeah, well, they're just, they're like Nikki just shows up
46:05
and like whatever she wears is what she's going to be wearing
46:08
in the video. We're not, we don't know what
46:09
she's going to wear. So you just need to make it look
46:11
like them. So I was like, OK, so basically
46:13
I got to like design for them. Yeah, as as myself.
46:17
And it was what was really scary is like after after I finished
46:24
it, there was like the day before the shoot.
46:25
One of the things that I said is like, if you're going to use my
46:27
dolls in your music video, I need to be there to style them
46:31
for the video because not everybody knows how to like,
46:33
make a doll look good. So they're like, OK, you can
46:36
come on, set and did. You meet them.
46:38
I didn't meet Nikki, but I met Ice and.
46:42
I love Nikki. I know you do.
46:43
I know you. Do I have a huge bar?
46:44
Yeah. Yeah, I got to be there while
46:46
they were. Did she touch your doll?
46:48
She did did. She see your doll?
46:49
Yeah, she's she does her whole like when she's.
46:52
Like she's playing them. She's.
46:53
Playing on the the claw machine, she's doing her thing that she's
46:57
like, that was really there. She was really there.
46:59
Yeah. In front of them.
46:59
That was cool to see. And how's ice?
47:04
Super nice. Super, super nice.
47:05
Really, really friendly. That's cool.
47:06
Yeah. And that's all.
47:08
I mean, there's even more to this story that I can tell you
47:11
off camera, but yeah. I love T.
47:14
But it was a great, it was a great experience and.
47:16
It was great or bad it was. Good.
47:19
It was just a lot. There was a lot of there was
47:21
like, I'll just say that they really like, they really liked
47:25
the dolls, which is great. OK.
47:27
Yeah, that's amazing. But it was cool to do.
47:29
It was cool to do those dolls and cool to see them in the
47:31
video and. It was cool for me to see them
47:32
in the video because I was like, Oh my God, that's your dolls.
47:34
We hadn't met yet though, had we?
47:36
Actually didn't know the review until, like, we met.
47:39
We talked about obviously the big Nicki Minaj fan and I
47:41
revisit and I was like, there they are.
47:43
Yeah. Like, how crazy is that?
47:44
Yeah. It was cool.
47:45
It was cool when the video came out, too.
47:47
I was getting all these texts from people, like they recognize
47:49
them. Yeah.
47:50
So you're creating this world and this environment, right?
47:52
And like, it's all fantasy to you.
47:54
So this is something that you are kind of fleshing out.
47:57
And obviously we spoke about Olive and Annette.
48:00
OK. So I wanted to ask, like, when
48:01
you're living in this this world and in this fantasy, do you see
48:04
it adjacent to like what drag is like the art of drag?
48:08
I mean, it's different than drag because I'm not, it's not
48:11
performative. Like I'm not like like lip
48:13
syncing or really it's it's a drag expression in the fact that
48:18
like it's sort of. The You're dressing them up.
48:20
It's it's an expression, it's an expression of femininity that
48:23
isn't like my day-to-day life. You know, it's like the way like
48:27
a drag queen is different than a trans person because a drag is a
48:29
character that you put on and then you take it off.
48:32
Whereas a trans person, that is who they are and it's, it's more
48:38
like that. It's more of like a I'm putting
48:41
something on a doll. I'm putting drag on a doll.
48:44
Not that the doll is 1 gender or the other, but it's sort of a
48:48
because especially because I present masculine and live as a
48:53
man, it's sort of my interpretation of femininity or
48:57
the way that I express femininity is through this.
49:00
So you grew up, you said you grew up like very feminine,
49:02
right? And it was noticeable and people
49:04
would clock you on that. So now as an adult, you present
49:08
masculine like where? Where did that like well.
49:12
That's how well, how well you know me.
49:13
But yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's not that I try to
49:16
present masculine. I mean, I think, I think at a
49:19
certain point, especially when you grow up really conservative
49:22
the way I did, you learn to mask and you learn to just because it
49:27
makes your life easier. Yeah, of course it's survival.
49:29
Yeah, it's survival. And I and I also, I told you I
49:32
grew up with some really cool guys on my street and we all
49:34
became really close and they're all for the most part straight
49:40
identifying guys. And I think I kind of picked up
49:45
mannerisms and sort of being part of their.
49:48
Group like your environment really helped shape you as
49:51
formative for you. Yeah, exactly.
49:52
I think, I think I queered their life in a lot of ways, in a
49:54
really positive way. We've talked about this as
49:57
adults, you know, that I kind of brought in this sort of like
49:59
queer perspective that I don't think they would have thought of
50:02
otherwise. But I think in, in exchange of
50:06
that, I think I, I kind of learned how to mask if I want
50:09
to. So like, especially if I'm like
50:10
driving through middle America or something, like I'll wear
50:12
like a baseball hat. And Oh my gosh, I totally get
50:15
what you mean. Yeah.
50:15
Like if I answer the phone, I'll give them, like, my straight
50:18
voice. Yeah, You know what I mean?
50:20
Yeah. Not that I'm not that I'm trying
50:21
to like misrepresent who I am, but sometimes, especially with.
50:24
Strangers switching, Yeah. It's just, it's literally so
50:26
natural. Like, not even like queer or not
50:28
like everyone, everyone's going to code switch, you know, It
50:31
depends on the environment, who you're speaking to, reading the
50:33
room. Totally.
50:34
But but yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's.
50:39
Oh. Yeah, yeah.
50:40
Oh my God. And that's, it's actually so
50:42
much more natural for you too, I think when it comes to
50:44
expressing your art and the femininity through your dolls.
50:47
Like I feel like this is like truly like where you find your
50:50
fulfillment and like you shine so much through it, but then you
50:53
pair it with your storytelling and that I think that's what
50:55
makes the content resinue with so many people.
50:57
Like, of course, the art's beautiful.
50:59
Yeah. Right.
50:59
No thanks. Yeah, Yeah.
51:01
No, I, I, the other storytelling, I mean, really
51:05
it's, it kind of came from this sort of need to like I was
51:08
creating visual, visual things for people to consume and I was
51:12
like, what am I going to fill this with?
51:14
You know, there's a lot of people that just use music or
51:17
whatever. But as I started to gain a
51:20
larger audience, I felt a little bit of a responsibility to want
51:25
to just share, share my story and share the things about the
51:30
world that I think are important for people to know.
51:33
I thought it was important for people to know where this art
51:35
was coming from and who it's coming from and.
51:38
It adds so much more depth to the work, to the content.
51:41
Thanks. I I like telling story.
51:43
It takes me a long time. My voice, I don't think anybody
51:45
understands like how how long it takes me.
51:48
Well, we have a story for you, OK?
51:50
We actually just got the sent in by the Delulu PR team.
51:54
It's another article from Delulu Daily and it's stressing me out.
51:58
I have not read it yet, but I figured because you have such a
52:01
soothing voice, it would make me more comfortable if you were to
52:04
read it to me. I'll do my best.
52:05
So Delulu Daily is the DCU Delulu Cinematic Universe
52:09
version of a TMZ or a tabloid. And yeah, I don't know, they've
52:13
just been hounding me like they're obsessed with me.
52:16
OK, I'm going to hand this to you, OK?
52:18
And please say it delicately to me all.
52:20
Right Ryan Liu, Hollywood's newest nepo girlfriend question
52:26
mark. OK.
52:28
Ryan Liu's been making waves as a social media star, best
52:31
selling author and rising actress.
52:33
Claim. But now some are calling her
52:35
Hollywood's latest nepo girlfriend.
52:38
The 28 year old is dating acclaimed director Jack Leffler
52:42
Leffler. It's pronounced Jacques.
52:44
It's French. Jacques Lafleur.
52:45
Yeah, it's my boyfriend. Jacques Lafleur, 51, and fans
52:49
have Fans have noticed she's landed several lead roles in his
52:54
films and brand campaigns. Critics say her relationship is
52:57
giving her an unfair advantage, unfair boost, fast tracking her
53:02
career through nepotism rather than merit.
53:07
OK. Tell me about this.
53:08
I have comments on this. Let's hear it.
53:10
So First things first, I had an audition for all of those roles
53:15
in Jacques films and. Where was the audition?
53:19
Where were the auditions? In casting rooms?
53:24
OK. Great.
53:26
Yeah, that checks out. Yes, in casting rooms.
53:28
So I had audition for all of those roles and I feel like I.
53:34
I think you did too. You deserved them.
53:35
Thank you and I just feel like this whole media narrative of me
53:40
dating jock is so unfair on me. Like I had a career before
53:45
meeting him sure and that's it's misogyny.
53:50
There's nothing negative about him in there.
53:52
Should. I tear this up.
53:53
Well, I reuse them. OK, That's not.
53:56
Thank you. Well, OK, I'm rebuking this.
53:59
That's not fair to me as a rising star.
54:02
I agree. Rebuke.
54:04
But please check out all my upcoming films with Shock coming
54:07
out very soon. What's coming out do you want?
54:09
To plug 1, sure. So we have one that's called
54:12
Spellcaster. It's coming out in January 2026
54:15
and I am actually the lead voice actress for it.
54:19
Congratulations. Thank you.
54:20
It's going to be on Netflix and Jacques is directing it.
54:24
But to be completely fair, I got that role before we even started
54:27
dating. So I believe it.
54:29
OK, thank you. And you're going to watch it,
54:31
Spellcaster. Spellcaster.
54:33
Thank you. Yes, it's on Netflix.
54:34
It's a wonderful story about two mermaid sisters.
54:39
OK. So I play both I.
54:42
May not be watching this. I play both.
54:44
The first one is Olivia and the other one is Anita.
54:48
So what's wrong you see? OK, do.
55:01
You want to talk about how when we were Vidcon you would do this
55:04
too? What would I do?
55:05
Oh my God, every time we'd meet somebody, Ryan would start
55:09
introducing. Myself.
55:12
Yourself as, as and just saying like what you did, but it would
55:16
just be like everything that I did.
55:18
Can you give me an example? Yes, you'd be like, Oh, well,
55:21
this one time when I was like just starting out doll making, I
55:25
got an e-mail from Melanie Martinez and asked me if I
55:28
wanted to like do well, it's very.
55:29
Exciting. She just got off The Voice and I
55:31
lived and she lived in Long Island.
55:33
So I was like, yeah, let's hang out and play with dolls.
55:37
I remember. Yeah.
55:38
Oh my God, that reminds me of Vidcon after that.
55:42
Vidcon after party. When we left, Melanie Martinez
55:44
had a concert. A bunch of fans came out,
55:46
recognized me, right? Took pictures of me.
55:48
You remember you took them. Yeah, well, their moms took
55:50
them. Right.
55:51
Yeah, right. Right.
55:52
Right, right, right. Their moms.
55:53
Didn't. Right.
55:54
Yeah, I. Love you.
55:55
Thank. Yes.
55:56
I love. I love them.
55:57
Yeah. Thank you.
55:58
Yeah. I mean, that was a really cool
56:00
experience, genuinely. And then I hate to say this.
56:03
What? Nothing tops when I worked with
56:05
Vice Vice Vice and Nicki Minaj. Oh yeah?
56:06
What was that like? It was good.
56:08
I didn't get a meet Nicki, unfortunately.
56:10
Yeah, but. How was ice?
56:12
I suppose so. Nice.
56:13
Yeah, but I have T Lulu to tell you off camera.
56:16
Can't wait. Well, OK.
56:18
Would you call? Would?
56:18
You call her nice spice. I would call her Spice.
56:22
Spice. Spice, Spice.
56:23
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
56:24
I mean, it's like our thing. We're like friends or whatever.
56:27
Yeah, I love. That I love that.
56:29
She's she's an upcoming guest, so we'll get into it with her.
56:32
Can't wait. So we are gonna do this segment
56:35
right now. This is WWADG.
56:38
OK. And this is what would a Lulu
56:40
girl do? OK, our bestie Lulu submitted
56:43
their dilemmas, concerns and problems and they want our
56:46
delulu advice takes whatever we have to offer them to help guide
56:49
them through whatever they're experiencing, OK?
56:52
I can't wait, I give great advice.
56:54
I'm so excited, I'm so ready because some of these are really
56:56
deep. So OK so we're going to start
56:59
with my boyfriend still hasn't proposed me yet.
57:02
For to context, Lulu, we went on a romantic sunset hike.
57:06
She notes that they are not hikers and nothing.
57:10
They also went on a trip to Paris and nothing, which is
57:14
where I met Jock, by the way. But she's really manifesting
57:16
him, proposing. What do we think?
57:20
I mean, as a manifesting expert, is manifesting something that
57:24
you can expect from somebody else to do for you?
57:26
Or is it because I feel like it shouldn't be?
57:29
I feel like there's different nuances when it comes to
57:31
manifesting. I definitely do believe that
57:32
people can manifest for you, but I also think that it really
57:35
comes down to aligned action and like, you know, taking charge of
57:40
what you want as well and also attracting it, you know?
57:42
I mean, I think I feel like if, if ultimately the idea of
57:46
getting proposed to is because you want to get married and if
57:49
you want to be engaged to somebody, why don't you just
57:52
make that for your happen for yourself and just ask them?
57:55
So do you think this bestie Lulu should propose?
57:58
If that if, if the end goal is that she wants to get married to
58:01
this person, then then yeah, why?
58:03
Why is she waiting for him? What are the end goals to be
58:05
proposed to? I think you might need to ask
58:08
yourself why you need that. Oh OK, therapy Lulu.
58:13
OK. What's my advice on this?
58:15
I feel like it's like you're just looking for like
58:17
traditional gender roles then. Oh, clock it, I mean.
58:20
I'm just assuming that this this is a heterosexual relationship.
58:23
I don't know. But you know, if if you feel
58:26
like as a as a woman, you can't propose, then you might need to
58:30
rethink that a little bit. Oh, OK, Deep, deep Lulu.
58:35
What do you think? Honestly, taking what you said,
58:38
and I think that's introspective and it really does open the
58:41
dialogue about, you know, why are we trying to conform to
58:44
gender roles? And is that societal
58:46
expectations that let's say if this bestie Lulu is a woman like
58:49
that, she feels like she would need to be proposed too.
58:51
So I think with all that considered, I would say leave
58:55
like a rose quartz under his pillow, maybe pressure him a
58:57
little bit, do a little manifesting.
58:59
Just make it happen for yourself.
59:00
I think you can manifest it, girl, you're fine.
59:02
Or or alternatively, you can do the inner work as Joshua
59:06
proposed to you. Yeah, those are your options,
59:08
yeah. OK, only those two.
59:10
Yeah, only one. One or the other and.
59:12
Let us know how that goes. So we have another one here.
59:16
This one says I'm in love with my straight best friend.
59:19
No other context. What do we think?
59:23
Have you ever had that experience?
59:25
Sort of, I mean, but then like what a straight, you know, like,
59:31
you know, I, I and what is in love, you know, there's all
59:35
different sorts of. Getting existential Lulu up in
59:39
here. I think there's infatuation.
59:41
I think there's you can. I think, I think often times
59:46
when someone says they're in love with somebody, but it's
59:48
just one sided. I feel like that tends to learn
59:52
more towards manifestation, not manifestation infatuation like
59:56
it's. So you're so you're saying that
59:58
this person could potentially just be infatuated?
1:00:00
I think so. Another thing they should
1:00:03
explore. Deep dive.
1:00:04
Yeah, but ultimately I feel like to really be in love with
1:00:07
somebody, it's like a 2. It's a two way St.
1:00:09
And you need, you know, if they if they don't feel that way, you
1:00:13
might need to distance yourself from them for a little bit.
1:00:15
Yeah, I think you might need, I mean, I've had, I've had, I've
1:00:20
been in gay friendships where the person is in love and, or
1:00:23
feels in love and with you, yes. And the friendship ends because
1:00:30
of it. And like because I don't feel
1:00:32
similarly about it. And that's always kind of sad.
1:00:35
But you have to give people space, especially if they're
1:00:38
kind of hyper focused on like the only thing they want out of
1:00:40
this relationship is a romance. It means you didn't have a
1:00:44
friend to begin with too. And that's kind of sad, but.
1:00:48
That's a tricky situation for real.
1:00:49
Yeah, I would say from Someone Like, You know, Joshua and I are
1:00:53
both in long term healthy, loving relationships.
1:00:57
I would say for Jock and I like yeah, I feel like it'd be
1:01:00
reciprocated. Yeah, you know.
1:01:02
Like what did you know with Jacques?
1:01:04
After he casted me in one of his movies I just was like.
1:01:07
It's real. Yeah, I was like, you're the
1:01:09
one. You know which movie it was
1:01:11
actually? Spellcaster.
1:01:12
Spellcaster. Yeah, Spellcaster.
1:01:14
That's that's why it's the one that's coming up soon.
1:01:16
Like all the other projects we're in the middle of filming
1:01:18
right now. It's just crazy over here.
1:01:20
But he's so sweet, and so do. You do you have different hair
1:01:22
and spellcaster. Yeah, so it's it's really
1:01:26
interesting. I do have different hair in
1:01:27
spellcaster. I play both of these characters
1:01:30
though they're sisters, they don't really look alike.
1:01:33
So one of them is like. Does one of them have hair and
1:01:35
the other doesn't? One of them has hair, Yeah.
1:01:37
So they they are like sirens essentially.
1:01:41
Right, Right. So the one without hair is like
1:01:45
a golden fish type siren and the other ones like not?
1:01:48
Where does the spell the spell casting come in?
1:01:51
It's a part of the story. So you're just going to watch
1:01:53
the movie to find out? Yeah, unfortunately, I can't say
1:01:57
much about it right now. I just sound so good, I can't
1:02:00
wait to see it. Thank you so much.
1:02:02
We've been developing the idea for such a long time.
1:02:04
I'm actually a part of the writing team on it.
1:02:07
I just had this concept of like these two sister sirens, and it
1:02:10
just came to me one day. I don't know.
1:02:12
I was just like sister sirens, you know what I mean?
1:02:15
One of them is like a cancer. One of them is like a Libra.
1:02:17
Oh my God. Sounds like in you're playing
1:02:19
both roles, so it'll be like the parent trap a little bit.
1:02:23
Essentially, yeah, it's kinda like the Parent trap a little
1:02:25
bit. It's really interesting, but.
1:02:26
One has hair and one doesn't. Kinda.
1:02:28
So Anita is the one who does have hair and she's an
1:02:32
interesting character. She's kinda somber.
1:02:34
She's a little Melaconi, and I find that to be a very
1:02:36
interesting you mean? Olivia.
1:02:38
Huh. Who?
1:02:40
Olivia. No, Olivia's the one who's a
1:02:43
little more bubbly. She's like a popular girl.
1:02:45
That's. Not Anita.
1:02:46
No, all right. No, no, I don't know.
1:02:48
You switched them around. Well, no, that's how they've
1:02:50
always been. OK.
1:02:51
Yeah, well. Anyway, let's get back to this
1:02:54
advice, OK? We already talked about these
1:02:56
shows. OK so wait, what's my advice?
1:02:59
I'm in love with my street best friend.
1:03:03
That's a real tough one honestly.
1:03:04
Do you know my honest delulu advices?
1:03:06
I would say train yourself and I'm so dead ass right now.
1:03:09
I would say train yourself to just like get the ick from them
1:03:13
because like actually this is so complicated because I also do
1:03:17
believe like. Do you think that do you think
1:03:20
that they should tell them that they're in love with them?
1:03:22
I'm a big fan of telling people how you feel.
1:03:25
I I agree, I'm very, very much. I've famously always expressed
1:03:31
how I felt to people like I will say it, I'll own it.
1:03:35
Like it's not a really big deal to me.
1:03:36
I would say for this person cuz I don't have enough context, you
1:03:39
really have to determine like how you value the friendship and
1:03:41
if you think like if it's honestly eating you alive or
1:03:43
hurting you to feel the step away.
1:03:45
Like you know, I would say try to give yourself the ick or.
1:03:49
Like step away. Yeah, maybe just cuz like, I
1:03:51
don't want you to go through like I said, cuz honestly, when
1:03:54
I was younger, I felt like I felt like that a lot too with a
1:03:58
lot of people, you know? And it could be really
1:04:00
devastating and it can also not be devastating, but it's just
1:04:06
like you got to be really careful and protective of
1:04:08
yourself. So that's a tough one.
1:04:10
I don't know. I wish I had better advice for
1:04:12
you. Learn to hate them, I guess.
1:04:14
What do you think I would say? Or you could get everyone like a
1:04:18
big group of friends together and like start like a spin the
1:04:20
bottle game and then just like figure out how to kiss them and
1:04:23
then just see if like there's a spark and maybe you kiss them
1:04:26
and you're like, oh, what I felt wasn't there actually.
1:04:29
And like then you know. That is some wild Lulu shit that
1:04:34
you did. Sad.
1:04:35
Damn. That was a trick that I did a
1:04:36
lot as a teenager when I just wanted to kiss my friends.
1:04:40
I'd be like, oh, let the fuck is a bottle here?
1:04:42
That's the point. Wait a minute, you wanted to
1:04:45
play Spin the Bottle at my party last time?
1:04:48
I know nobody would play with me.
1:04:52
I don't have the same. You're not the same to spin the
1:04:54
bottle pole. No, not Not like I used to like
1:04:57
the good old days. Oh, my gosh.
1:04:59
OK, OK. Teenage Joshua was a menace.
1:05:02
So many layers. That's so much lower.
1:05:07
OK, well, that's a good tip. OK, that's a good tip.
1:05:12
We'll leave it at that, Bestie. OK, let's do this one.
1:05:14
OK. Bestie wants to know.
1:05:17
Well, their concern is I like a boy who doesn't know I exist.
1:05:22
I would say make yourself known. Like be big and bold.
1:05:26
And a wig. Do a wig or.
1:05:28
Get a wig. Get like a like a fun set of
1:05:31
shoes. You know what?
1:05:33
What? OK, if you bestie Lulu, you have
1:05:35
a boy and they don't know who you exist, right?
1:05:38
I just thought of this, so let me workshop it on air.
1:05:41
But if you have a boy, they don't know who you exist.
1:05:44
What you should do if you're already aware of them, you
1:05:46
obviously, you know have an awareness of them set up a
1:05:49
party, get a bunch of people play spin the bottle with them
1:05:53
and then like this. I like this.
1:05:55
I just. Gave up with it's really smart
1:05:57
thank you and then when when it's the person that doesn't
1:06:01
know you exist just really pull it in and stick your tongue in
1:06:06
their mouth they'll remember you they'll.
1:06:09
Remember. You OK?
1:06:10
Yeah, you should do that. OK.
1:06:13
Deep Throat. My highly homophobic producer
1:06:22
did not appreciate that. I just met with your tongue.
1:06:25
OK, Yeah, absolutely. He's.
1:06:27
Not in the bottle. This is a This is a This is a
1:06:29
junior high game. OK, fair, fair, fair, fair.
1:06:36
Brett Shaner is not a homophobe, he said.
1:06:40
I love all gay people, particularly Ryan.
1:06:44
Yes, there we go. Thank you.
1:06:47
Please don't beat me up after this again.
1:06:50
OK? Well, that was debut.
1:06:56
I feel horrible. I know this is going to be a
1:06:58
mess for you to edit. Dear future Brett, so sorry.
1:07:06
Well, that was WWADG. Thank you so much for playing
1:07:09
honestly. That was really good, insightful
1:07:10
advice and ironically I feel like we got to know you a little
1:07:13
bit more from that game. Maybe so, maybe so.
1:07:15
Maybe so maybe a little too much, a little too much.
1:07:19
Well, we're actually going to do a new game here that we made
1:07:21
exclusively for you. Given the nature of our
1:07:23
relationship, you know how you know, you can be very playful
1:07:26
with me and tease me a lot and I'm very stoic and just mature,
1:07:29
right? That's how you are.
1:07:32
So we have a new game that we're going to play called Two Delulu,
1:07:36
One True Lulu. This is the DCU delulu cinematic
1:07:39
Universe version of Two Lies and One Truth.
1:07:42
My Co writer came up with three statements and you're going to
1:07:46
decide which one is the true Lulu of those 3 based on what
1:07:49
you know about me. OK OK.
1:07:51
Are you ready? All right, So he's ridiculous.
1:07:57
The first one is I'm dating a director, Jacques Lafleur.
1:08:02
That's the first one. OK, so immediately already a
1:08:06
true Lulu, but whatever. 2 is that I have snuck into a Carly
1:08:11
Rae Jepsen meet and greet process that and the third one
1:08:15
is that I'm actually originally from Georgia, the country.
1:08:22
I'm going to guess number 2 is the true Lulu.
1:08:25
The Carly Rae Jepsen one yes OK well to be honest this was not a
1:08:29
good game because there were two true lulus here.
1:08:32
I actually am dating Jack Lafleur and I did sneak into a
1:08:36
Carly Rae Jackson I. Bet you did.
1:08:37
I bet you did. Yes, and the other one is 1/2
1:08:40
true. Lulu I am from Georgia but the
1:08:43
state so oh. OK.
1:08:45
Yeah, that's why I have this heavy country accent.
1:08:49
Sounds good. Thank you.
1:08:50
Yeah. It's like I like it.
1:08:52
Thank you. Yeah, it like helps me get all
1:08:54
the. Nice long draw.
1:08:57
Thank you, Brett. He's from Georgia.
1:09:05
OK, I. Can't.
1:09:06
I've closed my eyes and I really can't even tell who's talking
1:09:08
between the two of you. It's really.
1:09:10
I know that's twins. Can we plug a picture of and?
1:09:20
Well, we're both natural blondes.
1:09:21
That's true, yeah. OK, well honestly where did you
1:09:24
get the why did you think I suck and show Carly Rae Jepsen
1:09:26
meeting greet? Because I know how much you like
1:09:27
Carly Rae Jepsen and I do too. Where that's something we share,
1:09:30
it's something. We share.
1:09:31
That's right. Oh, my gosh.
1:09:33
OK. We need to write better ones
1:09:34
next time, Cameron. So that's a good.
1:09:36
That's a good one. Thank you.
1:09:37
I appreciate that. Yeah, I did.
1:09:39
See, you can do Carly Rae Jepsen meeting greet.
1:09:40
Nice. The best.
1:09:42
Yeah. She's always the best.
1:09:43
She always remembers me. Oh, my God.
1:09:45
I love her. Like she's my favorite artist.
1:09:47
You know, that's where I got my username.
1:09:50
I know. Fun fact, Lulu.
1:09:51
So Emotions comes from her album Emotion.
1:09:55
Yeah, Yeah. And.
1:09:56
I have that record on vinyl. Me too, it's blue.
1:09:59
Me too. I also have the pink one.
1:10:01
Oh wow, I have every single one. OK, well Joshua, we close every
1:10:06
show by manifesting together. OK, we were started by
1:10:09
manifesting a great series with Olive and Annette, potentially
1:10:14
called. The mermaid sisters.
1:10:16
Mermaid Sisters. OK, cool.
1:10:18
Yeah, that fruit sounds familiar.
1:10:20
Based on a film that I'm working on.
1:10:22
But yes, Mermaid sisters. So we're manifesting that.
1:10:25
What else do you want to manifest?
1:10:26
We're going to speak into existence together.
1:10:27
The universe is listening. It could be anything.
1:10:33
I want the I want, I think, I think that's the thing that I'm,
1:10:35
you know, I want, I want, I want to personally know more about
1:10:40
the mermaid sisters. And so I know that they live in
1:10:42
my head and. I want and right here and right
1:10:44
here Honolulu. And I want to continue exploring
1:10:48
that and seeing people. I want to put them out into the
1:10:51
world and I want them to exist. So that's what I'm manifesting
1:10:54
is more mermaid sisters. Well can I do I do this through
1:10:58
you? Can I book them for the show as
1:11:01
gas? I'll put you in touch with their
1:11:04
agent. OK, well, I'll have my people
1:11:06
talk to their people. That's good.
1:11:07
OK. Sounds good.
1:11:09
Yeah. You may or may not be hearing
1:11:10
from my lawyer to just yeah. Why are we bringing legal in?
1:11:15
Here. Well, because there's this show
1:11:16
that you're working on called Spellcaster that sounds very
1:11:19
similar to something I'm working on.
1:11:21
One of one of ours is coming out first, so we'll see how that
1:11:25
holds up in court. OK, well, I'm manifesting that
1:11:27
for you as well. Is there anything else that
1:11:29
you're trying to manifest too? I mean like maybe like a
1:11:35
beautiful sandwich or something for lunch later.
1:11:37
Yummy, but you just had fish tacos.
1:11:39
No, but I'm hungry again. I know I'm hungry again too.
1:11:42
Oh, should I order us food? We'll.
1:11:44
Talk about it later. What are you manifesting?
1:11:47
Now I'm manifesting that sandwich too.
1:11:48
Yeah, what am I manifesting? We are about to launch the show.
1:11:53
By the time that you guys are watching this, we are like we
1:11:55
were like launched but at the time of filming this we were
1:11:59
about to launch the show and we have worked so hard on it.
1:12:02
Oh my, my Co writer was a giant fan of you by the way and he
1:12:06
made, he wanted me to make sure I brought that up.
1:12:09
So can you say hi to Cameron? Hi, Cameron thinks of being a
1:12:11
fan. He loves your Goldendoodle.
1:12:15
Oh yes, my golden collection. I have a pink poodle collection.
1:12:19
It's extensively in our notes about Lady.
1:12:21
Yes, my I have AI have a goldendoodle named lady, but
1:12:24
she's kind of like a pink golden and she inspired a whole doll
1:12:27
collection and in general I like I love pink poodle.
1:12:29
Did you see my key chain let? Me see.
1:12:33
Oh my God, she's so fabulous. If you guys aren't watching, on
1:12:36
the video version of the podcast available on Spotify, Joshua is
1:12:40
showing a bedazzled pink poodle key chain.
1:12:43
You know where I got it? I had a gas station on a
1:12:46
mountain. And but I love pink poodles and
1:12:49
I've incorporated them into like a lot of my drawings.
1:12:52
And I did a whole pink poodle collection of dolls where
1:12:54
they're all sort of like fashionable poodle women.
1:12:56
And it's something, it's a theme that I visit a.
1:12:58
Lot well, he loves Lady and he also noted here in the notes
1:13:03
Joshua is a fan of cats and yet he has a dog.
1:13:06
That's true. Good research, right?
1:13:08
You can like both, it's not one or the other.
1:13:10
Oh yeah, but I prefer living with a with a dog.
1:13:13
Right, right, right. OK, well, I to get back to what
1:13:17
I was manifesting, we're about to launch the show and we've
1:13:20
worked really, really, really hard on it and I'm really proud
1:13:22
of it and I'm really excited for it to be out in the world.
1:13:25
It's been a giant labor project with Brett and I and my Co
1:13:30
writer Cameron and the entire team that's been working on it.
1:13:34
So I'm I'm really manifesting that he reaches the right people
1:13:38
and we got amazing guests like you.
1:13:40
Absolutely. Well, I'm so excited.
1:13:41
You think so? Yeah.
1:13:42
Absolutely. Thank you.
1:13:45
I hope so. No, it's yes, it's happening.
1:13:48
Claimed. Yes, absolutely it's happening.
1:13:50
So the universe is listening and we we just manifested that
1:13:52
together. Amazing.
1:13:54
Well, Joshua, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.
1:13:57
Did you have fun? That's so real with me.
1:13:59
I had so much fun, right? Did you?
1:14:01
I did. I mean, lies aside, you're a
1:14:04
very good host. Lies, lies.
1:14:08
Oh name one lie. Oh, right, right.
1:14:15
So all true, Lulu. All true.
1:14:20
As I said, you may or may not be hearing from my lawyer at the
1:14:23
end of this. OK, well good luck going against
1:14:26
Netflix. That's all I got to say.
1:14:27
Well, besties, thank you so much for watching another episode of
1:14:31
Delulu with Ryan Liu. You got your healthy dose of
1:14:34
delulu, so now you can go live your true Lulu.
1:14:36
Joshua David Mckenney. Where can the bestie Lulu's find
1:14:40
you? I am on all platforms as pigeon
1:14:42
doll spelled PIDGINDOLL and you can follow my work there.
1:14:47
I'm on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram and red and all of
1:14:52
them. Yeah, and guys, to stay updated
1:14:54
on every upcoming project that Joshua is working on, do follow
1:14:57
him at Pigeon Doll PIDGINDOLL and also go to pigeondoll.com.
1:15:02
Check out his amazing collection and Lions.
1:15:04
He didn't even talk about it on the show, but he does also have
1:15:06
doll head bags, which I do own 1 and I love it.
1:15:09
And yeah, For more information on the upcoming Mermaid Sisters
1:15:13
series, you know, just follow him.
1:15:16
Follow me. Follow me for updates.
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Follow him for updates. If you love this episode, please
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follow the podcast on Spotify and hit that bell notification
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1:15:27
And Bestie, if you rate this podcast, 5 stars for us.
1:15:30
Joshua and I will personally do ASMR affirmations for you every
1:15:34
morning to help you wake up. Do you agree to that?
1:15:36
I agree to that. There we go.
1:15:37
OK, awesome. If you want to have your
1:15:39
question answered in the next WWADG, please join our past This
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community at the top of the page and we would love to answer your
1:15:46
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1:15:57
Thank you besties for watching Stay to Lulu.