Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Table Guest: Dr Kelly Stevens - The Gift of Failure (Pt. 2) | Ep. 67

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Table Guest: Dr Kelly Stevens - The Gift of Failure (Pt. 2) | Ep. 67 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  I am welcome to the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:10
  I'm your host Cheryl Lang, and we're going to continue today with a conversation.
• 0:15
  We began last time with Dr.
• 0:18
  Kelly Stevens.
• 0:20
  It's such an impactful aspect of parenting that's rarely ever talked.
• 0:25
  The gift of failure.
• 0:28
  There was an audio tech glitch, and Kelly comes through very clearly, but my voice is kind of muffled, but I definitely wanted to get this information into your hands, so thanks for bearing with us.
• 0:42
  I will do a little bit of a rewind just to catch you up with where we were in the conversation, but listen in as we discuss the benefits of.
• 0:53
  And how we can apply it in a practical way in real life because we love our children and we want to help them succeed through the gift of failure.
• 1:14
  Cheryl: Kelly, one time you mentioned in all our conversations.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 1:18
  Cheryl: you said something about the gift of failure.
• 1:20
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:21
  Cheryl: And that just stuck with me, so I wanna ask you, tell me what you were talking about.
• 1:28
  Kelly: Well, the Gift of Failure it.
• 1:31
  Kelly: is a uh, version of a parenting style that Uhhuh I've believed in for a long time since I became a parent.
• 1:40
  Kelly: So the main main points are we have forgotten to let our kids have problems.
• 1:47
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 1:48
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 1:48
  Kelly: We are making life so smooth, making the road.
• 1:52
  Kelly: so smooth We've talked about it.
• 1:54
  Kelly: We're paving, the road we're preparing the road for the child rather than the child for the road.
• 2:01
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 2:01
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 2:01
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 2:02
  Kelly: And then we're wondering why our children can't handle a rough road after they leave.
• 2:07
  Kelly: our homes.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: mm-hmm
• 2:08
  Kelly: Supportive, present, but not too involved.
• 2:12
  Kelly: Oh, that's fantastic.
• 2:13
  Kelly: And I mean, it's so hard to be there.
• 2:16
  Kelly: and not want to fix the problem.
• 2:18
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 2:19
  Kelly: but I want them to fail under my roof.
• 2:22
  Cheryl: There we go.
• 2:23
  Cheryl: I think that's it, Kelly.
• 2:25
  Cheryl: Because failure in childhood, we can have some control on it, right?
• 2:32
  Cheryl: And we can have'em fail where it's safe.
• 2:35
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 2:36
  Cheryl: So list for me the benefits that you have seen in your life or that you've read about our listeners might say, oh, that sounds real good.
• 2:45
  Cheryl: But
• 2:46
  Kelly: Right.
• 2:46
  Cheryl: What are the benefits?
• 2:47
  Cheryl: What are the things that you see that kids can grow from and maybe the parents
• 2:53
  Kelly: for failure?
• 2:54
  Kelly: Well, so the children develop self-confidence, not not being cocky, but self-confidence.
• 3:01
  Kelly: Yeah, they go to someone else's house who they're like their friend's house and.
• 3:07
  Kelly: find out their friend doesn't know how to make ramen noodles or chicken noodles soup or something because they don't know how to cook.
• 3:14
  Kelly: Or they don't have any soccer shorts clean because they don't know how to do laundry, and all of a sudden they're like, Now I know why my mom had me learn to do this.
• 3:25
  Kelly: I know how to do that.
• 3:26
  Kelly: Well, also,
• 3:27
  Cheryl: I think that if you failed before.
• 3:32
  Cheryl: and you got back cupping you and you.
• 3:34
  Cheryl: Right.
• 3:34
  Cheryl: Continued.
• 3:35
  Cheryl: Then you have the confidence.
• 3:37
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:38
  Cheryl: I'm not so afraid of failing again because I've done it so many
• 3:42
  Kelly: times.
• 3:42
  Kelly: Well, well, and I feel like kids, I mean, we all think failure's gonna be the end of the world.
• 3:48
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 3:48
  Kelly: you know, it's gonna be terrible.
• 3:50
  Kelly: And then when you fail and you realize.
• 3:52
  Kelly: really, a lot of times nobody else even noticed that you failed.
• 3:56
  Kelly: You're the only one that noticed and nothing bad happened.
• 3:59
  Kelly: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Kelly: And that's one of the things that this lady talks about in this book as she thinks these, this bad thing is gonna happen to her child when she doesn't run his homework up to school for him.
• 4:11
  Kelly: Yeah.
• 4:11
  Kelly: And all these people are telling her, oh, this is gonna be bad for him.
• 4:14
  Kelly: And it's like, no, it wasn't that bad at all.
• 4:17
  Kelly: And in fact he got a positive.
• 4:20
  Kelly: Experience out of it And then the next time you come upon a situation like that, you're more likely to go, oh, well the last time I did this, it didn't turn out so bad.
• 4:30
  Cheryl: Yes
• 4:30
  Kelly: You're not parenting out of fear, which we've talked about before.
• 4:33
  Kelly: You're parenting out of, I'm gonna give you this experience and I trust you.
• 4:39
  Kelly: That's a big thing of this autonomy supportive parenting.
• 4:41
  Kelly: I trust you to be able to handle this.
• 4:45
  Cheryl: While I'm still here.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: Yes What are some of the other gifts that we bring to our children when we allow them to fail?
• 4:54
  Kelly: Well, besides self-confidence, um, gosh.
• 4:58
  Kelly: I mean, I, I think that is probably the biggest one.
• 5:01
  Kelly: I mean, can you think of another
• 5:03
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:03
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 5:04
  Cheryl: I think for me, if I think of my life and then what I've seen in my children, it develops humil.
• 5:10
  Kelly: Yes.
• 5:10
  Kelly: Yes.
• 5:10
  Kelly: That's good.
• 5:11
  Kelly: Because
• 5:11
  Cheryl: they have a more realistic evaluation of being a human being.
• 5:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:16
  Cheryl: uh, I also think it develops compassion.
• 5:19
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 5:20
  Cheryl: Because if you've never failed, why would you have
• 5:22
  Kelly: compassion for other people?
• 5:23
  Kelly: Right.
• 5:24
  Kelly: Right.
• 5:24
  Kelly: And I think, I think if they have failed, If they see someone else fail, they can identify with that person.
• 5:33
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 5:34
  Kelly: And once they are vulnerable, which is that fancy Brene Brown word of vulnerability, once they show that vulnerability to others, then.
• 5:47
  Kelly: Those others begin to identify with that part of them and may come to them with problems.
• 5:53
  Kelly: Like, I noticed that you were able to do this.
• 5:55
  Kelly: And it's like, oh boy, trust me.
• 5:57
  Kelly: I messed this up so many times before you did.
• 6:01
  Kelly: Yeah, I, I tried this.
• 6:03
  Kelly: I shrunk.
• 6:03
  Kelly: I've turned everything in the laundry pink one time and it's like, but you, you do it now.
• 6:09
  Kelly: It's like, I learned what not to do so I think that that, uh, humility, like it wasn't just, of course you, you idiot.
• 6:18
  Kelly: Why would you put a red shirt in with whites?
• 6:21
  Kelly: It's like, you go, I did that and it did not work out well.
• 6:26
  Kelly: And they learn.
• 6:28
  Kelly: The other person learns, like you said, have, you're having humility to tell you messed up and you're being vulnerable.
• 6:36
  Kelly: And then they can connect with that.
• 6:38
  Kelly: And maybe it's sort of contagious.
• 6:41
  Kelly: Yeah.
• 6:41
  Cheryl: And so I see a benefit of this kind of parenting where children find that we're a safe place for them to fail.
• 6:50
  Cheryl: Right.
• 6:50
  Cheryl: And a safe place for them to.
• 6:53
  Cheryl: and say, mom, dad, you know, I don't know what to do.
• 6:57
  Cheryl: Or I want to tell you here actually, right.
• 7:01
  Cheryl: I took money from such and such.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: Or they, they'll, that they feel safe to confess their failures or their weaknesses instead of having to only bring the A
• 7:11
  Kelly: plus.
• 7:11
  Kelly: Right
• 7:12
  Cheryl: and In the big picture, in my mature loving.
• 7:16
  Cheryl: parenting I care so much more about how my children treat other people and their own personal character than I do about the external things the external accomplishments or how it looks Right?
• 7:29
  Cheryl: I want to develop the character and what you just described is the kind of person I want to be as a parent.
• 7:36
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:36
  Cheryl: And I want my children to be as a safe place for other people to come.
• 7:40
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 7:41
  Kelly: And as we've said before, they catch.
• 7:45
  Kelly: From us more than we teach them on purpose.
• 7:49
  Kelly: And so if they see us try things and fail or do something wrong and have to go back and apologize for it or rectify the problem, yes, and we're honest with it, and we do the right thing in the end, and at first they may really judge us harsh.
• 8:08
  Kelly: and then they come upon the same situation, older and they go, Ooh, now I know what my dad or my mom was dealing with at the time.
• 8:14
  Cheryl: Yes
• 8:15
  Kelly: And again, they have more compassion, more empathy for other people.
• 8:20
  Cheryl: and so if that's your family, culture.
• 8:23
  Cheryl: you're talking about role modeling.
• 8:25
  Cheryl: They watch us, how we handle failure, and then if we have this environment of this, Autonomy, supportive allowing failure, family, you're not afraid, they feel safe.
• 8:37
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 8:38
  Cheryl: We operate in grace rather than legalistic standard, right?
• 8:41
  Cheryl: And that's so far beyond the curated excellence of noting luxury child
• 8:48
  Kelly: fail So one, one thing I hear at least every day.
• 8:53
  Kelly: in my office is my child can't handle frustration.
• 8:57
  Kelly: Wow.
• 8:57
  Kelly: They, they start doing a math problem or doing a project and it's not working out and they just melt down and are totally lost to anything at that point.
• 9:07
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 9:08
  Kelly: and this autonomy, supportive parenting in studies have shown that they stuck.
• 9:16
  Kelly: Things worked through them.
• 9:18
  Kelly: Even if they got frustrated, they learned how to walk away for a second and come back, take a deep breath, whatever their tool was to help them.
• 9:25
  Kelly: Whereas the kids who were raised by like controlling parents, you have to do this.
• 9:31
  Kelly: Right?
• 9:32
  Kelly: They could not complete tasks on their own.
• 9:34
  Kelly: Wow.
• 9:35
  Kelly: and the guess what?
• 9:36
  Kelly: The parents swooped in the helicopter.
• 9:38
  Kelly: Parents swooped in and fixed their problem because they didn't wanna see their child be frustrated.
• 9:43
  Kelly: And trust me, that is hard to watch a, a child, a nine year old kid be so frustrated that they're crying with their head buried in their in the couch.
• 9:54
  Kelly: And not to, you know, fix that problem.
• 9:59
  Ellen: of course.
• 10:00
  Kelly: It sure
• 10:00
  Cheryl: is.
• 10:01
  Cheryl: And Kelly, what we're talking about is engaged aware parenting where you're not saying Yes.
• 10:08
  Cheryl: Oh, just go cry on the couch.
• 10:09
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 10:10
  Kelly: right?
• 10:10
  Kelly: You may say, you know, we'll back off of this for a second and we'll come back to it.
• 10:14
  Kelly: And over time again, that failure.
• 10:17
  Kelly: And then they ended up finishing the math problem or the project.
• 10:21
  Kelly: It may have taken three or four meltdowns, but each one should have been shorter and less severe, hopefully, if you sort of parented it well..
• 10:31
  Kelly: And a lot of that is letting kids.
• 10:35
  Kelly: process and take the time it takes for them to get it.
• 10:39
  Kelly: Very good.
• 10:39
  Kelly: And not to rush along on your timetable.
• 10:43
  Kelly: And my wife was probably gonna laugh when she hears this because I'm the guy with the timetable and the list, and so, I have to really think about, I, I can tell other people what to do very well.
• 10:55
  Kelly: It's hard for me to do it,
• 10:57
  Cheryl: gentle laugh and, and I like what you're saying, you're talking about giving them the tools.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: You know, um, you don't just say, oh, by the way, here's a plane ticket.
• 11:08
  Cheryl: Go.
• 11:08
  Cheryl: But walk alongside them.
• 11:10
  Cheryl: It's a balance to be this engaged parent that we're equipping them with tools, but then backing off and letting them figure it.
• 11:20
  Cheryl: and letting them
• 11:21
  Kelly: fail Right
• 11:22
  Cheryl: testing the waters trying, the failure and then that dance of do I move in or do I stay to the side?
• 11:32
  Cheryl: Right?
• 11:32
  Cheryl: But being the safe place where they can come to us
• 11:36
  Kelly: but you've done it in front of them.
• 11:39
  Kelly: Yeah, before.
• 11:40
  Kelly: That's true.
• 11:40
  Kelly: let's say you're letting your 12 year old fly on their own.
• 11:43
  Kelly: Well, hopefully they weren't on their phone the whole time that you were doing all the process of getting the tickets and getting on the plane and going through security, and they weren't even paying attention.
• 11:54
  Kelly: But at some point you say, I need you to be paying attention.
• 11:58
  Kelly: this transaction I'm doing, whether it be something big like that, or just going into a store and yeah, buying bread and, because the next time you are gonna do it, I trust that you can do this.
• 12:12
  Kelly: And if they can't, you don't have a loaf of bread for that night.
• 12:15
  Cheryl: But that's why I like all the dialogue we always talk about, have conversations.
• 12:20
  Cheryl: and one of the things I tried to do, didn't know.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: You're making me realize that it had a lot of wisdom to it is to walk along and let them walk on life with me and say, here's how you do this.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: this is the thought process.
• 12:35
  Cheryl: You know?
• 12:36
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 12:36
  Cheryl: Anything I'm missing we did a lot together and I allowed my kids, uh, a lot of freedom to, to say, can y'all see a way of improving this?
• 12:44
  Cheryl: Right?
• 12:45
  Cheryl: And ask the question, is there anything we're forgetting?
• 12:48
  Cheryl: So that as a group, we're
• 12:49
  Kelly: think tanking, not not making it so there's somebody else to blame for forgetting something.
• 12:55
  Cheryl: No, but we're like, we're going camping or we're going on a trip, or we're trying to.
• 13:00
  Cheryl: their academic life out or something and bringing them on the brainstorming aspect aspect of it.
• 13:06
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:06
  Cheryl: So that we can walk through and then they're beginning to be equipped.
• 13:11
  Cheryl: And then it is a real loving act.
• 13:13
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:14
  Cheryl: Of trust to take your hands off when it's appropriate.
• 13:18
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:18
  Cheryl: And let your little
• 13:19
  Kelly: fly a little.
• 13:20
  Kelly: And that's it is so hard.
• 13:22
  Kelly: And.
• 13:24
  Kelly: I, I don't remember the driver's ed car when I was um, learning to drive, but I think it just, did they have cars back then?
• 13:32
  Kelly: I think yes, they did.
• 13:33
  Kelly: They did, but I think it was just, I think they just had a break on their side.
• 13:37
  Kelly: They didn't have a steering wheel on their side.
• 13:39
  Kelly: Oh.
• 13:40
  Kelly: Um, and so as parents, that's a good picture.
• 13:43
  Kelly: we should be apprenticing uh, Our children.
• 13:46
  Cheryl: Oh, that's so good
• 13:47
  Kelly: I mean, and on all we talked about how boring, you know, changing diapers and feeding and all these kind of things.
• 13:52
  Kelly: if you have kids at home and you have a baby at home, by virtue of doing those boring things all day, you are apprenticing There's a mom, you know what, you should probably wait until he finishes you.
• 14:06
  Kelly: You should wait five more minutes before you change his diaper.
• 14:09
  Kelly: I've noticed you change the diaper.
• 14:11
  Kelly: And then you feed him and then he poops.
• 14:13
  Kelly: It's like perhaps if you did it differently.
• 14:15
  Kelly: So letting kids have an investment and buy-in to what you're doing in life.
• 14:22
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 14:23
  Kelly: But they're walking beside you learning.
• 14:26
  Cheryl: Yes Okay.
• 14:27
  Cheryl: And I don't know if it's every single episode we do when I'm listening to you say this.
• 14:34
  Cheryl: A key ingredient is we've got to have margin.
• 14:37
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 14:38
  Cheryl: And not just us.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: What you're describing, I'm listening to everything you're saying and you're describing as parents, we have to have so much margin because this is not a quick fix.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Oh yeah.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Fast decision.
• 14:51
  Cheryl: We have to do a dance in this.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: And we have to have our children have the margin so that they can grappl.
• 14:59
  Cheryl: with the challenges.
• 15:00
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 15:00
  Cheryl: Have the opportunity for the gift of failure, and then grapple and grow and have the margin to learn from it,
• 15:07
  Kelly: right?
• 15:08
  Kelly: And that most things aren't that important and a little failure can be tolerated uh, okay.
• 15:17
  Kelly: And, and hopefully even in school settings, they're going to begin looking and they say they are, but I still, I think they're looking at your s a T and a C T scores and your grade point average more than anything else.
• 15:29
  Kelly: But I think they're looking for character.
• 15:33
  Kelly: Um, interest outside of mm-hmm.
• 15:37
  Kelly: making a's and perfect grades and one of the, one of the failures.
• 15:41
  Kelly: That is a hard one for the parent whose child goes to school.
• 15:45
  Kelly: Because school is such a big thing for so many parents.
• 15:50
  Kelly: They get a text, he didn't turn in his work.
• 15:53
  Kelly: He's gonna have to.
• 15:55
  Kelly: Da da da.
• 15:56
  Kelly: And the mother, as Christie has said, takes it personally and it's a reflection on her parenting.
• 16:01
  Kelly: And in reality it is not.
• 16:04
  Kelly: And if you can, there are even phrases that parents can have if they're letting their kids fail.
• 16:12
  Kelly: There are little cards they can put in their pocket.
• 16:14
  Kelly: Say, I'm not being neglected.
• 16:17
  Kelly: I am a child whose parents are letting me learn lessons on my own Oh my goodness.
• 16:22
  Kelly: Like if your kid's riding bike and some little person on their front porch calls, then they've got cards that'll tell people.
• 16:30
  Kelly: But if you communicate with a teacher, Hey, I'm gonna let Billy.
• 16:37
  Kelly: Mess up if, and I don't know whether he's gonna turn in something that's good or not, and I'm aware of this, so please gimme some margin
• 16:46
  Cheryl: on, oh, I, I love this because, uh, we do have a society now that's an observational society and you do have to be, Of other people.
• 16:57
  Cheryl: one time I read a big study.
• 16:59
  Cheryl: It was huge.
• 17:00
  Cheryl: And they looked back over 50 years and they looked at the patterns.
• 17:05
  Cheryl: People who succeeded and who failed.
• 17:07
  Cheryl: And it's very clearly except for the outliers.
• 17:10
  Cheryl: The people who succeeded are the people who failed a lot.
• 17:13
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: And they looked at what the difference is.
• 17:18
  Cheryl: And actually it's this idea of, resilience that you get back up in the.
• 17:24
  Cheryl: Get back up on the horse.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: Yep.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: Failing.
• 17:27
  Cheryl: Well, you, you fail, but you go back to it.
• 17:29
  Cheryl: And that's our responsibility of parents is not the ultimate success of whatever's going on, but that our children are in a safe environment and they know how to stand back up and go back into the
• 17:42
  Kelly: fight.
• 17:42
  Kelly: And there's a difference between you failed and you're a failure.
• 17:46
  Kelly: That
• 17:47
  Cheryl: is, that is perfect.
• 17:48
  Cheryl: That is excellent.
• 17:49
  Cheryl: And, and one of the things they said, Their big summation of this big study was failure is the essential prerequisite to success.
• 17:59
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 18:00
  Cheryl: And so I want our parents to know, we're not talking about getting into Stanford, we're not talking about getting to that high level medical program we're talking about.
• 18:11
  Cheryl: We want our children truly to flourish.
• 18:15
  Cheryl: as as people, as individuals, as people in their adult lives.
• 18:18
  Kelly: Compassionate, empathetic.
• 18:19
  Kelly: That's
• 18:19
  Cheryl: right.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: Helpful.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: And isn't it interesting weaving all this together, that failure is an integral part of that.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 18:27
  Cheryl: And you make an excellent, compelling argument for Kelly.
• 18:31
  Kelly: I've failed a few times myself,
• 18:34
  Cheryl: Well, one thing I thought is really interesting you ask about character qualities is I think that allowing someone to fail helps kill perfectionism.
• 18:46
  Kelly: Yes.
• 18:47
  Kelly: Which helps develop humility.
• 18:50
  Cheryl: mm-hmm mm-hmm It's interesting.
• 18:51
  Cheryl: that whole concept that perfectionism doesn't come from repeated failure.
• 18:57
  Cheryl: No, perfectionism comes from repeated success.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:01
  Cheryl: You know, and it's one thing if someone is succeeding, but it's another, again, if the parents are curating the success.
• 19:09
  Kelly: Right.
• 19:09
  Kelly: Right.
• 19:09
  Kelly: Well, and I mean, we saw that in the college admission scam, things coming along.
• 19:14
  Kelly: It's like we play the game and now we.
• 19:18
  Kelly: playing.
• 19:18
  Kelly: It's one thing to play the education game or whatever, the job game and do certain things because that's what ex expected to get to the next level.
• 19:27
  Kelly: But it's another thing to cheat at that game.
• 19:30
  Kelly: Yeah.
• 19:30
  Kelly: And game that system.
• 19:31
  Cheryl: Uh, and the game of life, because actually what we're talking about here, if we prevent our children from the wonderful gift of failure, we're cheating on.
• 19:42
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:43
  Cheryl: Life is ups
• 19:45
  Kelly: and downs.
• 19:46
  Kelly: They're gonna fail, they're gonna run into difficulty, and if they haven't practiced it, their muscles aren't gonna be strong enough to handle it.
• 19:54
  Cheryl: Excellent.
• 19:54
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 19:55
  Cheryl: Uh, we have to quick, Kelly, let me give you a couple.
• 19:59
  Cheryl: Rapid fires.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: Well, mom said, what about vomiting?
• 20:03
  Cheryl: When, what should I do about it?
• 20:06
  Cheryl: How long should I let it go to do something?
• 20:08
  Cheryl: I mean,
• 20:09
  Kelly: a lot of times vomiting is either a response to a viral infection or maybe food poisoning, probably less or, or a food allergy.
• 20:16
  Kelly: But letting, mm-hmm.
• 20:18
  Kelly: first, letting your child empty their stomach and not trying to force feed them afterwards.
• 20:23
  Kelly: Um, so letting them.
• 20:25
  Kelly: and get it out.
• 20:26
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 20:26
  Kelly: If it's like they aren't able, after a couple hours of not vomiting to hold down even sips of juice or water, then you may need some help with that..
• 20:37
  Kelly: There are anti vomiting medicines that you can use But vomiting.
• 20:44
  Kelly: is a natural response of the body to get rid of something they don't want.
• 20:48
  Kelly: Yes.
• 20:48
  Kelly: And so if you try to inhibit it too much, that stuff didn't come out the mouth, it goes on down and causes problems on downstream.
• 20:56
  Kelly: Well,
• 20:56
  Cheryl: that's the problem with horses is they can't vomit.
• 20:58
  Cheryl: Right.
• 20:59
  Cheryl: So horses will die.
• 21:00
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 21:00
  Cheryl: So they probably would say, so how long, when do I need to be concerned with vomiting?
• 21:07
  Cheryl: I
• 21:07
  Kelly: It depends on the age group too.
• 21:09
  Kelly: I mean, people can go a long time without eating and a decent amount of time without drinking.
• 21:15
  Kelly: Uh, and sometimes that's the best thing is just let'em kind of get it out of them.
• 21:20
  Kelly: Uhhuh But that timeframe differs from age to age.
• 21:24
  Kelly: Uh, I feel like we're.
• 21:26
  Kelly: Forcing kids to try something and it's like, I'm gonna throw it up.
• 21:29
  Kelly: And then when they throw it up, it's a surprise to us.
• 21:32
  Kelly: Um, but vomiting in diarrhea at the same time, like can't hold things down and they're having a lot of diarrhea, that's when you're gonna see dehydration more quickly.
• 21:42
  Kelly: Oh, okay.
• 21:42
  Kelly: Plain old vomiting is, is takes a lot of vomiting to make you dehydrated.
• 21:46
  Kelly: So actually
• 21:47
  Cheryl: vomiting is our
• 21:48
  Kelly: friend, it's, it's like
• 21:49
  Cheryl: fever.
• 21:49
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:49
  Cheryl: We're getting the bad things out.
• 21:51
  Cheryl: Right.
• 21:51
  Cheryl: Oh, good.
• 21:52
  Cheryl: All right.
• 21:53
  Cheryl: One time you mentioned to me and.
• 21:56
  Cheryl: My daughter-in-law introduced me to the idea, and I said, where were you for the thousands of years that I nursed?
• 22:05
  Cheryl: Dream Feed and Snooze, feeded equip our young
• 22:08
  Kelly: moms with them.
• 22:09
  Kelly: tell us what a dream feed is.
• 22:10
  Kelly: Well, I mean, it's, you're going in on your own schedule while your child's dreaming, so to speak, and feed them a last feeding of the night.
• 22:18
  Cheryl: Just gently
• 22:19
  Kelly: you don't wake them up.
• 22:20
  Kelly: Well I mean, they're awake enough.
• 22:22
  Kelly: but, but they're not awake to play and have another two hours up.
• 22:25
  Kelly: it's mostly they're really kind of eating in their sleep.
• 22:28
  Kelly: Uhhuh, Then a snooze feed is, they're awake at four o'clock or sometime just like you would hit your snooze button on your alarm clock.
• 22:36
  Kelly: And this is my nurse practitioner's, phrase is the snooze feed.
• 22:40
  Kelly: So if you're going.
• 22:42
  Kelly: to four, and then you feed'em at four and then they sleep again till six or eight.
• 22:47
  Kelly: That was hitting the snooze button.
• 22:48
  Kelly: And then the mom can either stay up at that point and do stuff or you know, go right back to bed and sleep again.
• 22:54
  Kelly: And if that doesn't bother the mom, that's another sort of variation on the 8:00 PM to 6:00 AM type.
• 23:02
  Kelly: Mm-hmm.
• 23:02
  Kelly: sleep.
• 23:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:04
  Cheryl: Okay Kelly, thanks for coming in today.
• 23:07
  Cheryl: I know you're getting ready to take off for some beautiful lands to have a little week off of vacation, which
• 23:13
  Kelly: you deserve.
• 23:14
  Kelly: Oh, yeah.
• 23:14
  Kelly: Okay.
• 23:16
  Kelly: Well, it's my pleasure.
• 23:17
  Kelly: It's always fun.
• 23:19
  Cheryl: parents Remember, hang in there.
• 23:22
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 23:26
  Kelly: Yep, it is.
• 23:33
  Um, I would love to sit and have a long conversation processing this concept that turned success on its head in the idea of failure being such an integral key in learning how to succeed.
• 23:51
  But I think that goes back to our big picture of our core values of how we want our children to succeed.
• 23:59
  Is it with the best grade and all the accolades and the highest paying job, or is it as a flourishing human being in life?
• 24:10
  Wherever that is, we'd like to hear from you.
• 24:13
  Text us contact@theparentingpodcast.com DM on social media, or go to our website, oh two of the books that Dr.
• 24:23
  Kelly mentions are The Gift of Failure by Jessica Leahy and How to Raise an Adult, Julie Lithco ames.
• 24:32
  Next time there will be a recording team back in the studio again discussing the family roadmap.
• 24:39
  And what that might look like in real time and real life in your real family.
• 24:47
  I hope you join us for that conversation on the Parenting Podcast.
• 25:00
  Cheryl: Dr.
• 25:01
  Cheryl: Stevens portion of this podcast is for general informational purposes only, and does not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional healthcare services, including the giving of medical advice.
• 25:16
  Cheryl: No doctor patient relationship is formed.
• 25:19
  Cheryl: The use of the information from Dr.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: Stevens portion of this podcast is at the user's own risk.
• 25:26
  Cheryl: The content of Dr.
• 25:27
  Cheryl: Stephens portion of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.