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Claude Stauffer: Wolves In Sheep’s Clothing & Our Need For The Holy Spirit · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:02
  Welcome to Worldview Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events, defending biblical Christianity. No topic, off limits. And now, here's your host, David Fiorazzo.
• 0:20
  Friends, thank you so much for tuning in to another podcast. We appreciate you and your prayers, your support, and especially sharing the podcasts. As I mentioned, I know it's redundant, but I thank you guys for getting us out there.
• 0:35
  And it's very important. We're growing thanks to God. He gets the glory and you get the thanks for helping us. So we've got a great brother and friend from New York back with us again. Calvary Chapel of Hope, Pastor Claude Stauffer. His website...
• 0:55
  Calvary Chapel of Hope is the church website. His blog site is shepherdofhope.org, shepherdofhope.org. Brother, so good to see you. Thanks for your time today. Good to be here, David. It's always a pleasure to be here.
• 1:11
  Always, always. And it's been a while, man. It just gets so busy. But that's life. And so it's good to reconnect. We've got a very important topic today. But before we jump into it, I want to mention, since this is a huge deal that America has just celebrated 250 years, our anniversary, not a lot of nations. In fact, the average nation, I think, makes it less than 20 years. If I remember right, I heard...
• 1:36
  Tim or David Barton talk about that recently on a program. I think it was with Alex McFarland. Anyway, yeah, most nations don't make it very long, but 250 years is remarkable. You've got a book out. You came out a couple of years ago, Your Greatest Patriotic Duty.
• 1:52
  Making America Truly Great. Claude, mention just a bullet point or two from that book. Obviously, you mentioned how we make America truly great is not just politics. It's turning back to God, and our faith in Christ makes America great, because the citizens, when they are empowered by God and the Holy Spirit, then our perspective is right, and our country can be right. Go ahead and share just a little bit before we dive in to today's topic.
• 2:23
  Well, I wrote the book. I wrote the book after I heard a there was a right after President Trump had been elected. There was a scene in a like a back room of his supporters and they and they broke into an acapella song of how great thou art.
• 2:41
  And it just moved me. It just really touched my heart. And then the Lord began to put this idea in my heart about being a Christian and being patriotic. As many people think that being patriotic and being Christian are diametrically opposed. I don't. I think the Bible tells us that we should seek the favor of the land in which God has saved.
• 3:03
  sovereignly placed us. So the book is really about, it's about politics, but it's more than that. It's much more than that. I think the solution to our national problems are not merely political. I think if we only rely on politics, we'll never solve the problems. We have to go beyond politics to the power of the Holy Spirit, to being Christians and to seeking a revival of
• 3:28
  for our nation, and that's really what the book is about. Some people claim 2 Chronicles 7, 14, and try to apply that to our nation, but I think that's a misinterpretation because that verse, 2 Chronicles 7, 14, only really pertains to Israel. But there's another verse in Jeremiah 18, verse five through 11, which very specifically refers to any nation
• 3:57
  If any nation that the judgment of God is destined for repents, God will relent. And so that's what I think we, I think ultimately what we need is a revival in our nation.
• 4:11
  Yes, thank you. And you can get that book on Amazon, friends, Your Greatest Patriotic Duty. Patriotism is not wrong. It's not bad. We're not following idols here. We respect the flag, but we bow to Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. We're just thankful.
• 4:31
  that we're in such a nation as this, where we can speak freely and we can share the gospel freely. Most nations around the world, you can't do that if you're a Christian. But anyway, I don't want to get off on the wrong topic here, wrong tangent. I want to talk about the church and something you sent me, which is some of the preaching you're doing at your church on Sundays. This one in particular, the topic today, Wolves in Sheep's Clothing,
• 4:57
  Can you just set this up for us, Claude? What have you been going through at your church? And we'll dive into this topic. Well, in my church, I'm actually teaching through verse by verse, chapter by chapter, the Gospel of Matthew. The title of the book as a whole is, you know, Jesus is the Master Disciple Maker, you know, making how to make a manual for making disciples.
• 5:23
  And I'm in chapter 10. And in chapter 10, Jesus sends disciples out. He says, I'm sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. So the title of a kind of a miniseries from chapter 10 in Matthew is, you know, sharing the gospel in a world filled with wolves. And yeah.
• 5:49
  In chapter 10, there are 12 harvest mission strategies, which I kind of divided the chapter up into. And so this, what I sent you this morning, David, was kind of like an exposition of verse 16, where Jesus says, behold, I send you.
• 6:13
  out as sheep in the midst of wolves, therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. You know, and that's important. That's a pivotal verse. I think what we were saying before we came on air, David, one of the biggest hindrances to the church is,
• 6:34
  And to individual Christians getting involved in sharing the gospel and speaking about their faith and being involved, being salt, being light, it's almost like stage fright. They're afraid that when they're in a situation, they won't know what to say. And Matthew chapter 10, Jesus says very specifically, don't worry.
• 6:58
  about what you're going to say when you're brought before councils or anywhere. You know, if you go to a school board meeting, if you're in some kind of a debate on the street, whatever it is, don't worry about what you're going to say. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will speak into you, will speak and will give you the words to say when the time comes. And, you know, if we're Christians and we're supposedly filled with the Holy Spirit, well, at what point do we start relying on the Holy Spirit
• 7:28
  to use us. Good question. That's really the test that we have to pass. So, Claude, why does it seem to me that this concept is foreign to the West or to Christians in America being sent out
• 7:49
  I mean, the Great Commission, it seems foreign to us, yet I know there are a lot of great missionary organizations that go all around the world, they send missionaries, but America's, we're going in the wrong direction in every, just about every way. Biblical worldview and all this stuff. So are there parallels?
• 8:10
  To today's believers, when you look at this verse, Jesus said, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. So we're sheep. There are wolves, you know, there are not only wolves in our culture, but there were wolves in the church, false teachers. Can you speak to that? And why does it seem this is such a foreign concept to American believers?
• 8:30
  I think the cause of the disengagement of the church is the failure of the church to emphasize the heart of the Great Commission, which is to make disciples.
• 8:48
  I think that the church that I pastor, a Calvary Chapel church, we teach verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book, through the entire Bible. And so there's kind of a built-in discipleship that takes place, though we supplement that with small groups. But I think, unfortunately, there are many churches which have gotten away from the teaching of the Word, especially the expositional teaching of the Word, and...
• 9:17
  and are emphasizing experience. And there's nothing wrong with experience, but not at the expense of expositional teaching. Both should come together. Your experience should flow out of experience
• 9:34
  the teaching of God's word and should be, and your experience should be within the parameters of the truth of God's word. And I think that because we, we aren't disciples because we're, we're not, um,
• 9:49
  walking hand in hand with Jesus that the church doesn't know what to do, doesn't know what its purpose is. What is your purpose as a Christian? It's to be a disciple. It's to be a learner. It's to grow in your faith. It's to obey Jesus. A lot of people say, I love you, Jesus. But Jesus said, if you love me, obey me. And one of the things he...
• 10:13
  he instructs us to do is to go out and to be salt, to be light, and to get the word out. Thank you. Thank you. Man, I'm just so disappointed at how far we have retreated almost. Retreat might be a good word. We haven't quite waved the white flag, but we've retreated generally, not all Christians. There's some great Bible-believing Christians and churches,
• 10:43
  from being an influence, a godly influence in a nation that allows for the gospel to be preached in free speech. But I know I'm preaching to the choir, Claude. Talk to us about serpents and doves, because that's very interesting, the words that Jesus used here, and you break that down in your teaching.
• 11:00
  Well, Jesus, I'll tell you what he's not saying. He's not advocating us looking to the serpent in the Garden of Eden as an example of how we ought to do things. No, in the days, in biblical times, in the culture and in the environment where Jesus was teaching in the Gospels, a serpent was someone, a snake is something that proceeded cautiously, avoided undue danger.
• 11:28
  And so he was talking about that. But then he also talks about a dove. A dove is a universal symbol of peace. A dove was associated with purity. So he's saying you proceed with caution, but also proceed with purity.
• 11:45
  And follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, right? The Holy Spirit. I think that's another reason why the church is so anemic and so weak and so lukewarm is that while it claims to be following the leading of the Holy Spirit, they forget that.
• 12:05
  The main task of the Holy Spirit is, number one, to shine the light on Jesus. Right. But number two, to do a holy work in and through the believer they indwell. He indwells. So I think that's a thing. Talk is cheap.
• 12:25
  You know, I mean, it's so important for us to have this living dynamic. And also, you know, another thing, David, which I've really seen in the churches, there's in most churches speaking about, you know, what are we saved from?
• 12:42
  Right now, I'm not advocating, you know, fire, brimstone and things like that. But the church has almost completely avoided the eternal punishment and hell. They've watered it down with, you know, with annihilationism.
• 12:58
  You know, saying that, you know, hell is not eternal, but that at one point those who are in hell will be annihilated and they just cease to exist. And I know that there are arguments for that. But I think if you take the plain sense of Scripture, it makes common sense. Because Jesus uses the same word for eternal punishment as he does for eternal life, eternity with him.
• 13:22
  And so people, you know, we talk about people getting saved, but we're talking a foreign language to them if we don't explain to them what they are to be saved from. That's good. That's really good. We forget the whole gospel, right? I mean, if all your— Exactly. I know people mean well, Claude. I understand that, whether they're at a crusade or whether you're just sharing the gospel somewhere else, that God has a wonderful plan for your life. In part, that's true. Right.
• 13:51
  But there's so much more to the gospel and sin and what we are saved from, like you said. But I want to get into something you shared in your notes in a minute. But first, I want to remind people about something that's going on here in Wisconsin and, of course, anywhere online. Freedom Project Academy is enrolling students for the fall.
• 14:11
  And for 16 years, FPA has been delivering a fully accredited classical online education rooted firmly in Judeo-Christian values for kids in pre-kindergarten through high school. They offer live, anytime, and homeschool courses to fit your child's needs. So all you need to do is visit FreedomFORSchool.com and save 10% on tuition when you use the code DAVID.
• 14:38
  Again, save 10%, use the code DAVID at Freedom Project Academy, the website freedomforschool.com. So important, friends, with all that's going on in the demonic education system. Education system. Education in air quotes. For those of you listening to the podcast, education is in air quotes because it's not an education, it's indoctrination. So, Pastor Claude, you say...
• 15:04
  Serpents and doves are the perfect balance. Jesus wants us to be balanced, be perceptive and unfooled by the wolves, by the wolves they would inevitably encounter, but never adopt wolfish methods of deception and predatory profiteering. Ooh, I hear profiteering. I think of some teachings and doctrines and, quote, pastors.
• 15:32
  in America in some churches. Go ahead and share more. Well, you know, when we look at the book of Acts and we look at the exponential growth of the church, it was generated not by looking to the world for slick marketing techniques or slick stories,
• 15:52
  worldly strategies. It was generated by the baptism with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit empowering disciples, giving them, you know, encouraging, you know, putting courage in them to share the gospel. Those 120 that the Holy Spirit came upon at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, just a few days before, they were the ones that had been too fearful to stand with Jesus and didn't stand with him and fled.
• 16:20
  But now they were bold as a lion. What was the change? The change was the baptism with the Holy Spirit. And you know, when Jesus, it tells us in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 that upwards of 500 people saw Jesus in his resurrected state. And I'm sure those early disciples and even many of those 500, those witnesses, when they saw Jesus resurrected, they were all gung-ho to go out and share that. But Jesus put the book.
• 16:49
  And he said, no, before you go out, you need the promise of the Father. You need to be empowered by the Holy Spirit. And I think personally, bro, the thing that breaks my heart the most is that the church has looked to the world right.
• 17:05
  for methodologies about how to reach the world, to market, to package things, to presentation, how are we going to present the truth, right? And rather than following the leading of the Holy Spirit, rather than relying on the baptism with the Holy Spirit to empower. Because when you're baptized with the Holy Spirit, there is a power that...
• 17:30
  so transcends anything this world has. You know, we just, at Fourth of July, there was the movie Young Washington. And just about a month before that, there was a movie, A Great Awakening. Well, I'll tell you something.
• 17:46
  There would be no country, there would be no United States of America today if it hadn't been preceded by the first great awakening that took place in those colonies, led by people like John Wesley, like George Whitefield, like, you know, like, like those early founding pastors, you know, forgotten founding fathers that that generated were used by God for to bring a revival in the colonies. Yeah.
• 18:13
  Amen, brother. Amen. Man, there's so much to talk about there. But let's go back to this idea because it's going by fast. Jesus didn't...
• 18:25
  He warned. He sternly warned. He called out hypocrisy. He called out the false teachers. You're very right about them trying to find gimmicks to attract the world to churches today in America and use entertainment. Doesn't Romans 12, 2 say, Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind? I also think that the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth.
• 18:50
  so that we don't have to be as concerned about deception, but yet we need to guard our hearts and be led by the Spirit. Talk about the fact that you said it is not Christ-like to overlook or ignore hypocrisy or deception, because Jesus was not passive about this. Talk to us a little bit more about that, because we're not hearing that from much of the church and the leadership today. Well, you know—
• 19:19
  Look, I want to qualify what I say. I'm not saying that we shouldn't use modern technology or social media. I have the social media footprint. I do a lot of ministry by way of social media platforms. So I'm not saying that we shouldn't be engaged in that, involved in that. I think we should use whatever means necessary. But I don't think that we should use the bells and whistles and the, you know, the,
• 19:44
  Democratic studies and all these things. I know churches where the church leadership actually puts a dollars and cents figure for each person and determines what they can add to their ministry based on the income brought back.
• 20:01
  by those demographic studies, that's not following the leading of the Holy Spirit. You know, you miss out on so much and you reduce ministry to money. And it's so much more than money. If anybody ever thought that Jesus was this mild-mannered, you know, inoffensive, kind of wet noodle savior, just read Matthew 23, because...
• 20:26
  I don't know how many times he uses the word hypocrites, but he pulls no punches there. He speaks with them. Now, Jesus was tender with those who were broken, right? He fulfilled the scripture from Isaiah that says a bruised reed, he will not break a smoldering wick, he will not snuff out. But with those that, especially those that should have known better, those who had the advantage of having access to the scriptures and who were hypocrites,
• 20:52
  hypocritical, he called them out clearly. And, you know, in our day of melding Christianity and the church with politics, one of the bad traits that we often get hooked into is,
• 21:08
  is alliances, alliances that require compromise. And I'm not saying we shouldn't work with people that think and believe differently than us, but I do believe that we ought to maintain a distinctive...
• 21:24
  biblical truth definition of who we are. Let's not lose sight of who we are, right? Yes. Let's drill down a little bit on that, what you just brought up. Locking arms with people who can...
• 21:41
  maybe make progress morally or politically, but yet have different doctrines that we might not agree with, there are some things, some issues that we can agree to disagree about, like the end times, eschatology, things like that. But there are doctrines that we cannot align with. So can you share a little bit more about that, Pastor?
• 22:06
  And you're asking me to step into a minefield there, David. You can handle it.
• 22:13
  A lot of this, again, see, this is where I really believe that the leading of the Holy Spirit has to be. Some people's standard and what they will get involved in are different. The standard is different, or what they are willing to put up with is different. And what is our goal? What do we want to accomplish? But you have churches that teach a different gospel.
• 22:40
  Right. You have you have Mormons, you have Jehovah's Witness, even the Catholic Church arguably does not teach a biblically sound gospel. So to what extent are we going to pair up with them to accomplish our political objectives? What about those who are supposedly homosexual Christians?
• 23:01
  right? Or trans Christians, right? Or all of these kinds of woke type of Christians. What about those churches that adopt, you know, CRT and, you know, all of these different ideologies, which really are rooted in communism and Marxism and socialism? You know, I,
• 23:28
  I think that you really have to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, but I think that there's a line. I try to, you know, I'm very hesitant to involve myself or associate myself with such people other than to minister to them. Because what happens is the gospel gets watered down and people think that by your connection and by your involvement, by your partnering with those people, that you're condoning their behavior.
• 23:55
  That's right. So there always has to be a qualification if you are involved like that. Yeah. And that's a wrong assumption most of the time to jump and make that leap that just because you are maybe I don't want to use the word partnering. Maybe there's a better word, but you're you're working on a common goal for either a community or the country or even some sort of spiritual or religious or Christian event. Yeah.
• 24:22
  you're not aligning with their doctrine. But yeah, I understand that I've seen, and some of my guests on this podcast, they take the hits just for being, going out into these different environments and working on certain things or speaking a certain place. So I have to back up and say, Lord, we will know them by their fruit. Let's be discerning. Discerning is the word of the year for, I believe, the church in 2026. And let's not assign guilt by association by,
• 24:52
  In all cases. Sometimes, you know, you shouldn't go in a line. It would be part of an event when there's not many or not any with the biblical worldview or whatever. But I think you said it right. Discernment. That's why, back to the Holy Spirit, that's one of the reasons we have the Holy Spirit. Praise God. So, Claude, close us out. We have two more minutes. Any kind of encouragement you'd like to share or anything else to wrap us up on what we've been talking about, wolves in sheep's clothing and the church today?
• 25:20
  Well, just circling back to Matthew chapter 10, verse 16, you know, we have to remember who's sending us, right? Jesus said, behold. So that means pay attention. Pay attention. Behold. He said, I send you out. Who is Jesus? Jesus is our shepherd, right? We look at Psalm 23, verse 4, says, your rod and your staff, they comfort us.
• 25:43
  Right. The rod was it was a weapon of the shepherd to ward off predators to protect the sheep. The staff, though, was to guide the sheep. So, you know, sheepers, they're stupid and they would eat and they fall right off a cliff. So the shepherd would steer them in the right direction. If you look at John chapter 10, Jesus said, I'm the door. You couldn't get into the sheepfold other than through Jesus. And he's a protector of the sheep. So we have someone that's protecting us.
• 26:13
  And we're sheep, right? Sheep don't have fangs, don't have claws. Sheep are the most defenseless animals, right? They can't protect themselves. So we have to depend on Jesus for our protection, first and foremost. And then we get to the point where it says, I send you out as serpents, you know, and as doves, you know.
• 26:38
  As sheep. Yeah, yeah. We're coming first full circle now with the concept of the Lord being our shepherd. And we are sheep with your blog, Shepherd of Hope dot org, Shepherd of Hope dot org. And of course, Pastor Claude is the pastor of Calvary Chapel of Hope. I want to mention one of your blogs, recent blogs.
• 26:58
  has an outstanding prayer that you went back and noted, given at the First Continental Congress in 1774 by the Reverend Jacob Duchesne. Please, friends, look up that prayer and go read that at Pastor Claude's blog, shepherdofhope.org. Brother, thank you. God bless you. Friends, we appreciate you sharing the podcast and your prayers. God bless you. And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.