Latest / Why Humans Lie / He Trusted His Pastor-She Lost $41,000 and Her Voice
Transcript
- 0:03Speaker 1: The hatch was eighteen inches wide, it was eight feet
- 0:07Speaker 1: off the ground, invisible from the parking lot, and it
- 0:10Speaker 1: had never been locked. On a Wednesday morning in June
- 0:13Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, an electrician climbed a utility pole along
- 0:18Speaker 1: the east fence of Delport Industrial Park, looked down at
- 0:21Speaker 1: the storage module below, and noticed the hatch was open.
- 0:26Speaker 1: He went in to check for damage. What he found
- 0:29Speaker 1: instead was a banker's box on a metal shelf, inside
- 0:34Speaker 1: Manila folders, handwritten tabs, intake questionnaires, financial disclosure forms, signed
- 0:41Speaker 1: powers of attorney, at least nine people's names, nine people
- 0:46Speaker 1: who had come to someone for help in the worst
- 0:49Speaker 1: moments of their lives. The module had been rented by
- 0:52Speaker 1: a retired postal worker named Harold Finch. Harold Finch had
- 0:56Speaker 1: been dead for eleven months. No one had claimed the space,
- 1:00Speaker 1: someone else had been using it. That detail, the open hatch,
- 1:04Speaker 1: the dead man's lease. The box full of Grief is
- 1:07Speaker 1: where this story ends. But to understand what it means,
- 1:11Speaker 1: you have to go back to the beginning, to a
- 1:14Speaker 1: Wednesday grief support group, to a twenty two year old
- 1:17Speaker 1: woman who had just lost her father and was trying
- 1:21Speaker 1: quietly to hold everything together. Cheryl Whitley turned twenty two
- 1:27Speaker 1: in March twenty nineteen. She lived in a duplex on
- 1:31Speaker 1: Fenner Street in Delport with her roommate, Amy Tole. She
- 1:35Speaker 1: worked days as a billing assistant at a regional orthopedic clinic,
- 1:39Speaker 1: attended community college at night, studying business administration, and called
- 1:44Speaker 1: her mother every Wednesday morning at six forty five. The
- 1:47Speaker 1: calls lasted twelve to fifteen minutes, give or take. They
- 1:51Speaker 1: were steady, reliable, a small ritual. Her father, Robert Whitley,
- 1:56Speaker 1: had died the previous October from a stroke. He was
- 1:59Speaker 1: the anger for his three children, and Cheryl processed the
- 2:03Speaker 1: loss the way some people do, quietly, methodically on the outside.
- 2:09Speaker 1: She kept going to work, She kept going to class,
- 2:13Speaker 1: She handled the paperwork. She did not tell people how
- 2:16Speaker 1: bad it was. Then one evening she didn't. She broke,
- 2:20Speaker 1: as people do unexpectedly. A colleague at the clinic mentioned
- 2:24Speaker 1: a grief support group at Calvary Ridge Community Church Wednesday evenings,
- 2:29Speaker 1: led by the church's director of pastoral Care. His name
- 2:33Speaker 1: was Wayne Evans. He was forty one years old. He
- 2:36Speaker 1: held a legitimate master's degree in counseling from a seminary.
- 2:41Speaker 1: He had been the director of pastoral care at Calvary
- 2:43Speaker 1: Ridge for three years. He was married. He coached youth soccer.
- 2:49Speaker 1: He was the kind of person a congregation trusted without
- 2:52Speaker 1: thinking twice about it. There was one thing no one
- 2:56Speaker 1: had thought to check. His state counseling license had expired
- 3:00Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. He had never renewed it. The church's
- 3:04Speaker 1: administrative board had never verified it, not once in three years.
- 3:09Speaker 1: When Cheryl walked into that Wednesday group in March twenty nineteen,
- 3:12Speaker 1: she brought with her something Evans would have recognized immediately.
- 3:16Speaker 1: She was grieving, she was functioning, and she had recently
- 3:20Speaker 1: inherited approximately forty one thousand dollars from her father's life
- 3:25Speaker 1: insurance policy. What happened next did not look like exploitation.
- 3:30Speaker 1: It never does. At the start, Evans ran the group
- 3:33Speaker 1: with care. He listened, He remembered details. He followed up
- 3:38Speaker 1: In the first six weeks March through April. He identified
- 3:42Speaker 1: Cheryl as someone in particular need of extended support. He
- 3:46Speaker 1: offered her individual sessions. He called it ministerial commitment. He
- 3:50Speaker 1: did not charge for the extra time. He framed that
- 3:53Speaker 1: as grace. By May, they were meeting twice a week.
- 3:57Speaker 1: Evans gave Cheryl a diagnosis she had never heard before,
- 4:01Speaker 1: disenfranchised loss compounded by identity disruption. He explained it in careful,
- 4:06Speaker 1: clinical sounding language. She had lost not just her father,
- 4:10Speaker 1: he said, but the version of herself that existed in
- 4:13Speaker 1: relation to him. The inheritance, he suggested, was not just money.
- 4:19Speaker 1: It was a test, a stewardship question, a spiritual one.
- 4:23Speaker 1: He began sending her texts between sessions, scripture passages, articles
- 4:29Speaker 1: about what he called financial stewardship, reflections on what it
- 4:33Speaker 1: meant to honor a parent's legacy. He mentioned a man
- 4:36Speaker 1: named Ted Bowen, a congregant, describing how Ted had made
- 4:41Speaker 1: a wise financial decision and grown in faith because of it.
- 4:46Speaker 1: Cheryl had no reason to doubt it. She had never
- 4:49Speaker 1: spoken to Ted Bowen. Ted Bowen, according to everything that
- 4:52Speaker 1: would come out later, had never been consulted. His name
- 4:56Speaker 1: had been used without his knowledge. Amy Tole noticed something shifting.
- 5:01Speaker 1: Amy found the expired license online a routine search, the
- 5:06Speaker 1: kind anyone might do. She brought it to Cheryl. Cheryl
- 5:10Speaker 1: brought it to Evans. Evans reframed Amy as someone who
- 5:14Speaker 1: was spiritually oppositional, someone whose anxiety was contagious, someone who
- 5:19Speaker 1: did not understand the kind of work Cheryl was doing.
- 5:23Speaker 1: The seed was planted back home on Fenner Street. Cheryl
- 5:27Speaker 1: began choosing her words carefully. She was still calling her
- 5:31Speaker 1: mother every Wednesday, but Diane Whitley, who knew her daughter's
- 5:35Speaker 1: voice the way mothers do, started noticing something she could
- 5:38Speaker 1: not quite name. The tone had changed careful, she would
- 5:43Speaker 1: later say, like she was choosing every word. What Diane
- 5:47Speaker 1: didn't know yet, What Cheryl didn't know yet was that
- 5:50Speaker 1: by that point, Evans had already begun telling Cheryl exactly
- 5:54Speaker 1: what to say. By September two thousand nineteen, Cheryl Whitley
- 5:59Speaker 1: was choosing her words on the phone. Her mother noticed
- 6:03Speaker 1: Evans had already begun telling her what to say. The
- 6:06Speaker 1: apartment on Fenner Street was shrinking around Cheryl, not physically,
- 6:11Speaker 1: but in the way a space shrinks when every relationship
- 6:14Speaker 1: inside it starts to feel like a threat. Amy Tole
- 6:17Speaker 1: had found the expired license. Evans had reframed Amy as
- 6:21Speaker 1: spiritually oppositional, and now each Wednesday morning, at six forty five,
- 6:27Speaker 1: Cheryl was speaking to her mother in a register Diane
- 6:30Speaker 1: had never heard before, measured contained like someone reading from
- 6:35Speaker 1: a script they had memorized but did not write. That image.
- 6:39Speaker 1: The careful voice on the phone is the first signal.
- 6:43Speaker 1: The second is harder to see. It was paper. Through
- 6:46Speaker 1: the autumn of twenty nineteen and into January of twenty twenty,
- 6:51Speaker 1: Evans began describing Diane differently in their sessions, not as
- 6:55Speaker 1: a mother, as a source of contaminating anxiety. He had
- 6:59Speaker 1: a term for it, a phrase that made the thing
- 7:02Speaker 1: sound clinical, manageable. He proposed what he called a protective boundary,
- 7:07Speaker 1: the word protective doing enormous work there. Cheryl was not
- 7:11Speaker 1: pulling away from her mother, She was being shielded. Around
- 7:14Speaker 1: the same time, Evans reframed the annuity the thirty eight
- 7:19Speaker 1: thousand dollars was not a financial product. It was a commitment,
- 7:23Speaker 1: a spiritual heirloom. Cheryl did not know, and would not
- 7:28Speaker 1: know for two years, that Evans had received a referral
- 7:31Speaker 1: fee of one nine hundred dollars. The day she signed
- 7:35Speaker 1: then came January twenty twenty. Cheryl signed a new lease
- 7:39Speaker 1: on Creston Mill Road, twelve minutes farther from Fenner Street,
- 7:44Speaker 1: twelve minutes farther from Amy twelve minutes farther from the
- 7:48Speaker 1: church where Evans worked. The direction of the move looked
- 7:52Speaker 1: from outside like independence, like a young woman stepping into
- 7:56Speaker 1: her own life. She was out of the Fenner Street
- 7:59Speaker 1: apartment within six weeks of a single conversation with Evans.
- 8:03Speaker 1: Here is where the paper trail opens its second loop.
- 8:06Speaker 1: In June of twenty twenty, a document was filed with
- 8:10Speaker 1: the County Register a limited power of attorney. The named
- 8:14Speaker 1: holder was an entity called Pastoral Legacy Consulting LC, a
- 8:19Speaker 1: single member company registered in an adjacent county. The registered
- 8:23Speaker 1: agent was a man named Dwight Oller. Dwight Oller was
- 8:26Speaker 1: Evans's brother in law. He would later tell investigators he
- 8:30Speaker 1: had signed his name as a favor. He did not
- 8:33Speaker 1: know what the company would be used for. Cheryl had
- 8:36Speaker 1: no memory of signing the power of attorney. Not a
- 8:39Speaker 1: vague memory, not a clouded one. No memory. The document existed,
- 8:45Speaker 1: her signature was on it. She had no recollection of
- 8:48Speaker 1: the moment it happened. That gap between the signature and
- 8:52Speaker 1: the silence around it is the center of everything that
- 8:55Speaker 1: would unravel. Autumn twenty twenty, Diane Whitley stopped waiting. She
- 9:01Speaker 1: contacted Howard Gardner, a licensed clinical social worker retained by
- 9:06Speaker 1: the family. Gardener began meeting with Cheryl. He documented the
- 9:10Speaker 1: time line across three sessions. The sessions were not dramatic,
- 9:15Speaker 1: they were methodical. Gardner built a chronological record of everything.
- 9:19Speaker 1: The grief group, the extended sessions, the diagnosis Evans had applied,
- 9:25Speaker 1: the texts about stewardship, Ted Bowen's name used without his knowledge,
- 9:29Speaker 1: the annuity, the new apartment, the power of attorney. Cheryl
- 9:33Speaker 1: could not remember signing three sessions, a time line on paper,
- 9:38Speaker 1: and then a decision. February two thousand twenty one, Tina
- 9:43Speaker 1: Morse was sitting at her desk at the Delport Credit Union.
- 9:47Speaker 1: She was a loan officer. Her job that morning was
- 9:50Speaker 1: routine verifying a vehicle loan application. The applicant was Cheryl Whitley.
- 9:56Speaker 1: Morse ran the standard checks, and then she stopped the
- 10:00Speaker 1: power of attorney attached to Cheryl's file named an LLC
- 10:04Speaker 1: as the holder, not a family member, not a spouse,
- 10:07Speaker 1: a company. Tina Morse flagged it that flag as the
- 10:11Speaker 1: crack in the wall Evans had been building for two years.
- 10:14Speaker 1: Everything that came after passed through that single moment. Of
- 10:17Speaker 1: attention from a loan officer doing her job. On an
- 10:20Speaker 1: unremarkable Tuesday morning in April twenty twenty one, Howard Gardner
- 10:26Speaker 1: accompanied Cheryl to the Delport County Sheriff's Office. Detective Louise
- 10:30Speaker 1: Farr was assigned the case. Farr had handled two previous
- 10:34Speaker 1: fraud investigations. She recognized the shape of the paperwork immediately.
- 10:39Speaker 1: Within days the she had a court order for Evans's
- 10:43Speaker 1: financial records and the records of Pastoral Legacy Consulting, LLC.
- 10:48Speaker 1: Just three weeks into the investigation, Gregory Carter climbed a
- 10:52Speaker 1: utility pole. Carter was an electrical technician. His work order
- 10:56Speaker 1: that Wednesday morning in June twenty twenty one was to
- 10:59Speaker 1: restore or exterior lighting along the east fence of the
- 11:03Speaker 1: Delport Industrial Park. He was on the pole, he noticed
- 11:07Speaker 1: the maintenance hatch on the north wall of a storage
- 11:10Speaker 1: module below him. The hatch was open push latch mechanism,
- 11:15Speaker 1: eighteen inches across, eight feet off the ground, invisible from
- 11:20Speaker 1: the parking lot. Carter went in on a metal shelf.
- 11:24Speaker 1: Inside he found a banker's box. Inside the box manila
- 11:29Speaker 1: folders with handwritten tabs intake questionnaires. Session notes, financial disclosure phones,
- 11:36Speaker 1: signed powers of attorney. Carter called the Sheriff's office at
- 11:40Speaker 1: nine forty seven in the morning. By noon, investigators had
- 11:44Speaker 1: a name on the documents. Evans's name was on every folder.
- 11:49Speaker 1: The module had been rented by Harold Finch, a retired
- 11:52Speaker 1: postal worker sixty three years old, dead for eleven months.
- 11:56Speaker 1: No heirs had claimed the space. Evans had met f
- 12:00Speaker 1: Finch years earlier in a winter men's Bible study. Finch
- 12:04Speaker 1: had mentioned the module in passing. After Finch died, Evans
- 12:08Speaker 1: had used the maintenance hatch three or four times a
- 12:11Speaker 1: year to deposit documents. He never touched the front lock.
- 12:16Speaker 1: He never touched the padlock. He came and went through
- 12:20Speaker 1: an eighteen inch gap in the wall that no one
- 12:22Speaker 1: was watching. The folders in that box contained records on
- 12:26Speaker 1: at least nine people, nine not one. Everything the investigation
- 12:31Speaker 1: had built to that point pointed in a single direction
- 12:35Speaker 1: Wayanne Evans had targeted Cheryl Whitley. He had identified her vulnerability,
- 12:40Speaker 1: constructed a spiritual framework around her inheritance, and maneuvered her
- 12:44Speaker 1: into signing documents She did not remember signing. The evidence
- 12:48Speaker 1: was specific to her. The power of attorney named her account.
- 12:53Speaker 1: The referral fee came from her annuity. The timeline tracked
- 12:57Speaker 1: her year by year from the grief group in March
- 13:00Speaker 1: twenty nineteen to the new apartment in January twenty twenty.
- 13:05Speaker 1: But the banker's box changed the geometry. Eight additional names,
- 13:11Speaker 1: eight additional sets of folders, intake questionnaires, session notes, financial disclosures,
- 13:18Speaker 1: signed powers of attorney, the same tabs, the same format,
- 13:22Speaker 1: the same handwriting on each label. Cheryl had not been
- 13:26Speaker 1: a target. Cheryl had been a case number in a
- 13:28Speaker 1: larger operation that had been running for years before she
- 13:31Speaker 1: ever walked into Calvary Ridge on a Wednesday night. That
- 13:35Speaker 1: reframe lands differently when you return to a detail planted
- 13:38Speaker 1: much earlier in the record. Two counties east of Delport,
- 13:42Speaker 1: in Harlow County, a woman named Susan Greer had lost
- 13:47Speaker 1: approximately twenty six thousand dollars in twenty seventeen. She was
- 13:52Speaker 1: thirty one at the time. The pattern in her case
- 13:56Speaker 1: was identical extended sessions with a church affiliated councilor an
- 14:01Speaker 1: unsuitable financial product, a power of attorney she had no
- 14:04Speaker 1: memory of signing. The case had gone cold. The councilor
- 14:09Speaker 1: had never been positively identified. In December twenty twenty one,
- 14:13Speaker 1: investigators shared documentations between the two counties. The LC Dwight
- 14:19Speaker 1: Uller's signature as registered agent, the chronology, the format of
- 14:23Speaker 1: the folders. Everything matched. The cold case in Harlowe County
- 14:27Speaker 1: had a name now picture. The interrogation ruin the Tuesday
- 14:31Speaker 1: after Carter made his call, Evans sat across from Detective
- 14:35Speaker 1: far He confessed in the first session, not partial disclosure,
- 14:41Speaker 1: full confession. He confirmed eight additional victims beyond Cheryl. He
- 14:46Speaker 1: confirmed the hatch, He confirmed the fee. He confirmed that
- 14:51Speaker 1: he had told Cheryl what to say to her mother
- 14:54Speaker 1: on Wednesday mornings. One version of what happened here places
- 14:57Speaker 1: Evans as an opportunist who found a structural gap, an
- 15:01Speaker 1: unverified credential, ag grieving congregation, a church board that never
- 15:06Speaker 1: checked a license renewal, and exploited it once it proved profitable.
- 15:11Speaker 1: The expired license had lapsed in twenty seventeen, the same
- 15:16Speaker 1: year Susan Greer lost twenty six thousand dollars in Harlowe County.
- 15:21Speaker 1: Under this reading, Evans was a man who tested a boundary,
- 15:24Speaker 1: found no resistance, and built a system. But the banker's
- 15:28Speaker 1: box makes that version incomplete. Nine sets of folders organized
- 15:33Speaker 1: with tabs stored in a dead man's storage unit through
- 15:36Speaker 1: a hatch. No one monitored. That is not opportunism. That
- 15:41Speaker 1: is infrastructure. Someone built that system before Ryl Whitley ever
- 15:46Speaker 1: sat down in the Wednesday grief group. The intake questionnaires,
- 15:51Speaker 1: the session notes formatted to look clinical. The LLC registered
- 15:55Speaker 1: in an adjacent county with a relative as the nominal
- 15:59Speaker 1: agent EA, which piece required planning that preceded the moment
- 16:03Speaker 1: Evans identified Cheryl as a target. The strongest reading of
- 16:07Speaker 1: the evidence, and the one Evans's own confession supports, is
- 16:11Speaker 1: that the grief group was not where the scheme began.
- 16:14Speaker 1: It was where it ran most efficiently. Grieving people recently disrupted,
- 16:19Speaker 1: newly holding assets they had not expected to manage, they
- 16:22Speaker 1: came to him. The diagnosis he gave Cheryl, disenfranchised loss
- 16:27Speaker 1: compounded by identity disruption, was not a clinical assessment. It
- 16:32Speaker 1: was a sorting mechanism, a way of measuring how far
- 16:35Speaker 1: from her own judgment a person had already drifted. Cheryl
- 16:39Speaker 1: Whitley was twenty two years old. She was working nights
- 16:43Speaker 1: to finish a business degree. She had buried her father
- 16:46Speaker 1: six months before she walked through that door. She did
- 16:50Speaker 1: everything right. She sought support, She stayed connected to her family.
- 16:55Speaker 1: She asked questions when something felt wrong. Evans's answer every
- 16:59Speaker 1: time she came close to the edge of the frame
- 17:01Speaker 1: he had built was to move the frame. Evans confessed
- 17:04Speaker 1: in the first interrogation session. No lawyer, no delay. The
- 17:09Speaker 1: confession came before the full contents of the banker's box
- 17:12Speaker 1: had been cataloged, before the Sheriff's office had finished cross
- 17:15Speaker 1: referencing the nine sets of folders, before any one had
- 17:19Speaker 1: thought to pull the Harlow County files. He pleaded guilty
- 17:23Speaker 1: in October twenty twenty one. The sentencing came in November,
- 17:26Speaker 1: fourteen years, with eligibility for parole at eight eleven charges
- 17:31Speaker 1: in total, seven counts of financial exploitation, two counts of
- 17:35Speaker 1: unlicensed counseling practice, one fraudulent power of attorney, one count
- 17:40Speaker 1: of obtaining money by deception. The judge entered them one
- 17:44Speaker 1: by one. Cheryl recovered approximately fourteen thousand dollars through civil restitution,
- 17:52Speaker 1: the annuity the thirty eight thousand dollars Evans had steered
- 17:56Speaker 1: her toward in August of two thousand nineteen, remained locked
- 18:01Speaker 1: under the terms of its seven year surrender period. She
- 18:04Speaker 1: would not see that money for five more years after sentencing.
- 18:08Speaker 1: Dwight Ohler, Evans's brother in law, was never charged. Investigators
- 18:13Speaker 1: confirmed he had signed the Pastoral Legacy consulting paperwork as
- 18:17Speaker 1: a personal favor without knowledge of how the LC would
- 18:20Speaker 1: be used. The company existed technically legally until the court
- 18:25Speaker 1: ordered its dissolution. Carl Whitmore, the financial adviser who sold
- 18:30Speaker 1: the variable annuity, faced a separate regulatory review. Whether that
- 18:34Speaker 1: review resulted in formal action against his license was not
- 18:38Speaker 1: publicly confirmed. In December twenty twenty one, prosecutors shared documentation
- 18:44Speaker 1: from the Delport case with investigators in Harlowe County. The
- 18:48Speaker 1: LC registration, Ohler's signature, the chronological pattern the match was clear.
- 18:54Speaker 1: The Harlowe County case, cold since twenty seventeen, was formally
- 18:59Speaker 1: reopened and linked to Evans. Susan Greer had lost approximately
- 19:03Speaker 1: twenty six thousand dollars four years before Cheryl Whitley ever
- 19:07Speaker 1: walked into a Wednesday grief group. The counselor, who had
- 19:10Speaker 1: never been positively identified in that case was now identified.
- 19:15Speaker 1: Howard Gardner, the licensed clinical social worker Diane Whitley had
- 19:19Speaker 1: retained in the autumn of twenty twenty, closed his file
- 19:23Speaker 1: on Cheryl in the month's following sentencing. His documentation of
- 19:27Speaker 1: the timeline across three sessions, the sequence of isolation, the
- 19:31Speaker 1: financial transfers, the power of attorney Cheryl had no memory
- 19:36Speaker 1: of signing, became part of the evidentiary record. The Wednesday morning,
- 19:40Speaker 1: calls between Cheryl and her mother resumed at their original length.
- 19:45Speaker 1: There is something specific about this case that does not
- 19:48Speaker 1: let go easily. Not the money, though the money matters,
- 19:51Speaker 1: not even the legal outcome, which was by any measure
- 19:55Speaker 1: a real one. What stays is the mechanism. Evans did
- 19:58Speaker 1: not overpower Cheryl whis He did not threaten her. He
- 20:02Speaker 1: built a frame around her grief, and then each time
- 20:06Speaker 1: she approached its edge, he moved the frame. He told
- 20:10Speaker 1: her that her mother's voice was contaminating. He told her
- 20:13Speaker 1: that her roommate's instinct, the instinct that turned out to
- 20:17Speaker 1: be correct, was spiritually oppositional. He gave her clinical sounding
- 20:22Speaker 1: language for what he was doing to her, and handed
- 20:25Speaker 1: her the words to explain it to the people who
- 20:27Speaker 1: loved her. Cheryl was twenty two years old, working nights,
- 20:33Speaker 1: still carrying the weight of her father's death, and doing
- 20:37Speaker 1: everything that someone in pain is supposed to do. She
- 20:40Speaker 1: showed up, She asked for help, She stayed connected. None
- 20:44Speaker 1: of it was enough to stop what Evans had built,
- 20:47Speaker 1: because what he had built was designed to neutralize exactly
- 20:50Speaker 1: those instincts. The expired license had lapsed in twenty seventeen.
- 20:55Speaker 1: The Harlowe County case began the same year. Between that
- 20:58Speaker 1: moment and the way day in June twenty twenty one,
- 21:02Speaker 1: when Gregory Carter climbed a utility pole and found a
- 21:05Speaker 1: hatch nobody had thought to secure meanings. Evans ran the
- 21:10Speaker 1: same system through at least nine people for four years.
- 21:14Speaker 1: No institutional check stopped him. Not the church board that
- 21:18Speaker 1: hired him, not the licensing body that never followed up,
- 21:22Speaker 1: not the financial advisor who sold an unsuitable product in
- 21:25Speaker 1: a room Evans controlled. What stopped him was an eighteen
- 21:29Speaker 1: inch maintenance hatch, a dead man's forgotten storage unit, and
- 21:34Speaker 1: a Credit Union loan officer named Tina Morse, who looked
- 21:37Speaker 1: at a document she was not required to investigate and
- 21:41Speaker 1: decided it did not look right. Cheryl Whitley did not
- 21:45Speaker 1: get all of her money back. She did not get
- 21:48Speaker 1: the years back. What she got was the frame named
- 21:51Speaker 1: for what it was in a court room, on the
- 21:54Speaker 1: record in November twenty twenty one. That is what accountability
- 21:58Speaker 1: looks like when it arrives, partial, delayed and real. This
- 22:03Speaker 1: show is made by Oboe Media.