Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #294 Guest Host Patrick Pursley with Jarvis Ballard

Transcript

#294 Guest Host Patrick Pursley with Jarvis Ballard · Wrongful Conviction

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I'm Jason Flamm, host of Bronfel Conviction, and so far
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: we've brought you hundreds of stories of people stolen from
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: their lives and families for crimes they did not commit.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: The sheer number of cases we've covered speaks to the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: scale of the problem, but we've yet to even scratch
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the surface. To amplify this message even louder, I've invited
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: new voices to host the show to create interviews of
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: the system affected by the system affected. This is one
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of those interviews.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: On January tenth, nineteen ninety eight, a sixty year old
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: woman in the small town of Violet, Louisiana, her to
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: knock at the door. It was two o'clock in the
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: morning that night. She had been babysitting her three and
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: a half year old grandson, and she opened the door
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: thinking was her son.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: To pick up the child.
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  Speaker 2: Instead, two men forced their way into her home and
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: demanded to be taken to her safe. When she insisted
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: she didn't have one, they raped her and stole her
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: stereo equipment and of television. The next door neighbor saw
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: the two men walking out of the house with the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: stolen goods. Then they saw them get into a car
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: with a woman at the wheel. One of those neighbors
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: was twenty four year old Lewis Caesar, and he recognized
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: one of the men as Ulysses Pierre, who also went
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: by the name of Little Noon. Lewis mother Yolanda, called
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: nine one one to report the crime. Later that day,
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: police arrested Ulysses and brought them in for questioning. At first,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: he claimed he acted alone, but police physically abused him
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: until he admitted that two others were involved. Ulysses said
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: that Sidney Williams and his younger cousin, Jarvis Ballard, were
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: with him. He also told the police where they hit
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: the stolen items. Jarvis was arrested later.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: That same day.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: During their interrogation, he denied taking any part in the crime,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: but after the police threatened and beat him, Jarvis eventually
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: signed a false confession statement. Three men were arrested, even
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: though the victim and the witnesses said only who had
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: been involved. On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine, Ulysses Pierre,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Sidney Williams, and Jarvis Ballard were sentenced to life in prison.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: This is wrongful conviction.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: My name is Patrick Persley, also known as Free Patrick Persley.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: I was previously a guest on this show to tell
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: the story of my own wrongful conviction. Today, though I'm
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: stepping into the host role. This April, I had the
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: honor to sit down with Jarvis Ballard and its lawyer
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: g Park at the Incense Network conference in Phoenix, Arizona.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: When we spoke, Jarvis had only been out of prison
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: for eight months. It was emotional conversation for the both
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: of us. I want to say how grateful I am
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to Jarvis for trusting me to tell his story. This
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: case here, really it tore me apart because it's very
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: steeped in the South and the culture and the practice
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: of treatment black men in the South. A very heavy
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: accusation of what you went through, what you were accused
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: of right, all these things.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: It's very to me.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: It resonated with the historical harms of Deep South attitude
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: towards black life. It's very good for you to be here.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I'm very thankful to meet you. I'm sorry for what
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: you went through. Everyone welcomed Jarvis Ballard and his attorney
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: G Park.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the show.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Good to be here.
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: It's nice to meet you. Man.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about your past, what
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: it's like growing up in Louisiana, what you went through,
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: and what you experienced.
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: Well, I grew up with a single mother of two.
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: My father got killed me nineteen eighty two. He was murdered,
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: shot nineteen times, ten and the eight.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: So the word how were you wouldn't go curb.
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: I was actually about three, but I I always knew
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: that my daddy hung up the wrong crowd, and I
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: learned that a lot old day as I grew up,
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  Speaker 5: because he was a known drug dealer and he was
• 4:16
  Speaker 5: known for in New Orleans for having the name of
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: killing people. And I always didn't never want to be
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: like that cause I always played sports. But I found
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: myself having his aggression towards other people, Like you know,
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: it don't take much to meet me mad If I
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: think you're a bully, you're not gonna bully nobody around me.
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  Speaker 5: So you know, I always was challenging all the bullets.
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  Speaker 5: So I took on the name ass lived with the
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  Speaker 5: roy which is my daddy's name, and they called him
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  Speaker 5: town Taker because a lot of people are scared to
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: mess with him. But I didn't want that cause I
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: know eventually soon or later somebody would home me and
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  Speaker 5: take my life like they took here, started selling drugs
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: and smoking weed.
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  Speaker 3: About how I'm thirteen years old.
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  Speaker 5: That's common, and you know I'm in high school and
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: playing bee's but actually I'll playing bees ball in football,
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: and my sports is kind of would help me get
• 5:07
  Speaker 5: along with have her just a little bit more than
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: the next person, you know, and I would get away
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: with a lot. I might get expelled from school. They'll
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: send a teacher at the house. Just a good sports
• 5:16
  Speaker 5: just coming practice.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: And ride for you.
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: But I didn't care about school because like my night
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: going in my tenth grade year was over. There was
• 5:25
  Speaker 5: just having running in that landed me in Juvet Hall
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: for two years. But I just had it. I just
• 5:31
  Speaker 5: had a net for getting it. I just like this
• 5:34
  Speaker 5: peep bad boys. You know, you know what it is
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: you think you're bad. I want to I want I
• 5:39
  Speaker 5: want to be the one to be throwing whatever you
• 5:41
  Speaker 5: think you got going on.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: His previous interactions with the criminal justice system put him
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: on the police radar, and that's how Jarvis got swept
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: up into what's about to happen next.
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  Speaker 4: So in January tenth, nineteen ninety eight. A woman. She
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: was a sixty year old white woman. In the middle
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: of the night, there's a knock on her door. She
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: goes to the door. There are two men who burst
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: into her home. They rape her viciously, and then they
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: steal things from her. And in her home was her
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: grandson whom she was taking care of that night. And
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: so right after this horrific incident happens to her, she
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: calls the police. She calls nine one one, and she says,
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: two black men came into my home, stole my belongings,
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  Speaker 4: and raped me. And they were in there at her
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: home for quite some time. And not only that, they
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: covered her eyes or visibility was hindered for most of
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: this time. And as this robbery rape is happening, as
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: they're carrying things from this woman's home to a car
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: right wear in which there was a driver in the car,
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: and that driver is a woman. So it's three people total, right,
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: Two men who go in the house, and then there's
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: a driver who's a woman in the car in the
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: get away vehicle, and the neighbors are seeing something happening
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: right to their neighbor's home. This is the mother and
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: the son, Louis Caesar and Yolanda Caesar, Right, does his
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: mother and son who live next door to this woman, Right,
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  Speaker 4: And they say when they talk to the police that
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: night or shortly thereafter, they say they see two men, right,
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: and they see a third person in the car. And
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: this is what they know immediately after the crime. Now,
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: the way Jarvis gets involved is that Lewis recognizes one
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: of the people as Pierre. He says, oh, that's Jarvis's
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: cousins first cousin. Yeah, Elisi's Pierre. So he recognizes Eulas's Pierre,
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: and that's who. So Lewis is the one who tells
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: the police. I think one of the men recognize as
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Ulysses Pierre. And the next morning, at ten am, police
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: go to Pierre's home. Right, Pierre is the last name, Right,
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  Speaker 4: Eulasi's his first name. They go to Pierre's home and
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  Speaker 4: they begin to interrogate him, right, and Pierre gives a
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: really unfortunate statement he involved Jarvis.
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  Speaker 2: On the night of the crime, Jarvis was out at
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  Speaker 2: the club in New Orleans.
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  Speaker 5: Well, of course, I was out partying with my friends,
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: you know, were having a few drinks, getting high. I
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: come home, I'm so entyxicated I my friend had to
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: put me in my coat, which is Lowis Caesar. Later
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: on I would learn how he the crime would be
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  Speaker 5: happening right next door to his house.
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  Speaker 2: Louis Caesar gave Jarvis a ride home from the party.
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  Speaker 2: Jarvis slept at his grandmother's house, where he often spent
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the night.
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  Speaker 5: L I get on the next morning, I see all
• 8:34
  Speaker 5: these I'm thinking it's around up in the around up
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: is when they come pick you up up when you
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: say telling they covered nocadi right, So I'm like, man,
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  Speaker 5: So I go back inside, make a phone. I say, Man,
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  Speaker 5: they rounding people up for drugs something Me said No,
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  Speaker 5: he said, look Little Nowon which is my cousin. They
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  Speaker 5: just arrestident for a rape.
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  Speaker 2: Later that morning, Jarvis went down the street to hang
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: out with a friend. He noticed on the way that
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: the police were out in front of his cousin, Tracy's house,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: so he asked a friend what was going on.
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  Speaker 5: So he like, man, something happened last night with Little
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  Speaker 5: nowon Himsel, which is Juless. I already know what he
• 9:06
  Speaker 5: talking about, cause I heard it. He said. They say
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: he they put the stuff in her two shit. So
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: this draws me to go walk down there because I
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: want to know what's going on with Hall. This is
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: my family. But as I'm walking, they didn't already took
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: the stuff out the shade. They asking her about me,
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  Speaker 5: do you know where jaws better at? And she's pointing,
• 9:25
  Speaker 5: telling him that him coming right there. So as I'm coming,
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  Speaker 5: they say you jolways a bet. I said yeah. They
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: say get on the ground, which I complied. When I
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: got there, Detective Calvin bought p arrested me. He bought
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: me there and I was interviewed by Scott Davis, That's
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: who actually met me at the door. He said, you
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  Speaker 5: wanna rape old white women, and I'm like, I ain't
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  Speaker 5: rape nobody, and he spread pepper spray on me. Now
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: I'm looking at my cousin, and my cousin are fairly
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: light skinny, so I see where he can like he
• 9:52
  Speaker 5: been attacked, and he like, man, just tell him what happened.
• 9:55
  Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't know what happened. What are you
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: talking about?
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: This next part I have to warn the listener it's
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: very difficult to talk about and very difficult to hear.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: But during the interrogation, Jarvis was subject to a high
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: level of brutality. He was sprayed with pepper spray and
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: kicked repeatedly in the groin. The injuries he got from
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: the police required him to have emergency surgery.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: And you know, they kicked me in me pretty much.
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: It was very clear. I knew we did that. He
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: did it two or three times I have, and I
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: just like, like gesaid, I don't understand why our family
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: put people in those positions.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: But you know, I think the police had no right
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: to treat you like that, all right. I mean they
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: didn't have to spread. I mean they don't have They
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: didn't have to. You know, people do not They didn't
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: have to physical.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: While they were interrogating Jarvis, the police were also interrogating
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: his cousin Ulysses and sister Kuandrika. Jarvis could actually hear
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: his sister from the other room in the police stay because.
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: I hit my sister and they crying and she's like,
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: it wasn't you know?
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: It was me Lenoon And.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Now you were feeling protective or vulnerable with her there
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: I didn't want to see he'll get in no trouble
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: because I was like, man, well she ain't got herself
• 11:13
  Speaker 5: into it.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Finally, after all that fiscal abuse and then stink to
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: protect the sister, Jarvis's will was completely overborne, and he
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: relented and he signed a false confession.
• 11:28
  Speaker 5: Then that man told my mom that she can have
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: her daughter. I got your son. So now I had
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: to play save my sister and y'all beating me. I'm
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: this wrong man, but y'all had to make a decision,
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: and once I signed a statement, then their case was
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: kind of sealed for them. And the only thing I
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: could hope is that God one day would have me
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: in this position.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: RIGHTO.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: So basically a trial, what was presented? What did the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: jury here? What's you know? How was that broke down
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: to the jury because obviously they weren't apprized of all
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: the facts, right.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: So the state presented, I mean the state relied on
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: three pieces of evidence. One was the positive identification of
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Jarvis by the complainant, by the victim and the case.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Which is all it takes, right.
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: I mean it for a sixty year old white woman
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: to say in the courtroom pointing to Jarvis and saying
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: that is the man who raped me, that's pretty powerful evidence.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: The second piece of evidence was co defended Ulysses Pear's
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: statement right, implicating Jarvis, and then Jarvis's own confession that
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: they took from him. So those were the three pieces
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: of evidence.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: That's a steep, steep, steep mountain to overcome.
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: It is because the physical evidence only link to Ulysses
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Pierre and Sidney Williams, the two guys who actually committed
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: the cross which makes sense. And there was nothing, no
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: physical evidence, no DNA, nothing that connected Jarvis to the scene. Yeah,
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: And so after the police was called, after the victim
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: gave her statement, she was taken to the hospital, right,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: and a sexual assault kid was performed on her. They
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: collected evidence, physical evidence, right, and they conducted DNA testing
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: on that too, physical on the physical evidence that was
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: collected from the scene and from her body, and they
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: were able to identify two male profiles, and neither one
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: of those belonged to join us. These two male profiles
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: they developed belonged to Ulysses Pierre and also to Sidney Williams,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: the two men who actually committed this crime. The jury
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: did not hear all the relevant evidence that they should
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: have heard to decide what actually happened in this case.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's a take care about to efficiency more
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: than accuracy and justice and fairness. Louisiana, you know, has
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: the highest incarceration per capita in the entire world, right,
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: and not only that, we have the highest exoneration rate
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: per capita in the country. And so when you put
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: those numbers together, you wonder what is really going on
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: here in the South. The fact of the matter is,
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: you know, Jarvis was represented by a public defender system
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: that is still falling apart in Louisiana.
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: You need effective attorneys to investigate your cases. His attorneys
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: didn't have an investigator, right. His attorney didn't know the
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: discovery practices in the jurisdiction that he was practicing.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: It you get the file.
• 14:42
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so attorneys, you would think that would be the
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: you want a complete file, right.
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: Right, right, right, No, it's your obligation, it's your duty,
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: it's your job.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: And then on the flip side, you have the prosecutor.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Who also has a duty to turn over turn everything.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: I feel like once they seen who it was, it
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: was old, it didn't even matter no more about how
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: I get this conviction. I just wanted you know, you
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: ever elderly white woman fifty was nine at the time,
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: sixty years old, she's rape. You knew. I understood that
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: well what I was up against because I understood growing
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: up down and how it was, so I knew that
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: it was dominanted about white people.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: I learned this.
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: I further of all, I have to learn that whatever happened,
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: I got to know that it was wrong. What happened
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: to the woman. I looked at the root of the
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: problem was she got rape. Ain't nothing right about that.
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: Now I understand that the police had to make call,
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: make me a victim. That's when the racism come in. Look,
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: we got this black head that he's saying that he
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: did this to you and did this here, and we
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: want to show you a picture. You remember seeing it
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: in your house. Now your points great at the picture.
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: So I knew how it Now.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: This is one day almost like suggested to her that
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: there was three hours they did.
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: They did out the gate. Actually they brought this woman
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: in front of me doing a trial session in Exa.
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: He told me, see if this woman said you went
• 16:04
  Speaker 5: in the house, I'm gonna let you go right now.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: He said, this guy right here saying that you wasn't
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: in his house. The woman started crying. She said yes,
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: she was you rading me? I'm like, ma'am, I don't
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: even know you.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine, after less than
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: four hours of deliberation, the jury convicts Jarvis Ballard and
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Ulysses Pierre of aggravated rape. The next day, Sidney Williams
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: was convicted of the same All three were sentenced to
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: life in prison without parole.
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: Jarvis's case is particularly heartbreaking because it happened within a family, right.
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: It's about family as I turned kind of against one
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: another and that got one of their brother cousin right
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: in prison for twenty three years. And so I think
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: this case is incredibly heartbreaking.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: It's more than a betrayal. You know, I forgive him,
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: but I would never be able to help vie with him,
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: right because you didn't have no reason to do that
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: to that woman or to me to You made two
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: victims that laid in me. Then you took something from
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: me that you didn't have to do. So I don't
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: I don't talk years twenty three years, six months, twenty
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: three seven days.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And you knew him all your life.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: This is my We took baths together.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: You knew him all your life.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: He was my He was my big cousin, but I
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: was you know, he's like my brother because I always
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: was much bigger than all him. But you you know,
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: you hurt me. And I don't hate, but I just
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: rather than not deal with him.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: During his twenty three years inside, Jarvis made a few
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: good friends. One was Jerome Morgan, now fellow axignery.
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: You know, and you meet people along the way, not
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: knowing that y'all said the same, similar story, just different
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: It mean, it's just different cases but the same situation.
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: And I met Jerome and we become good friends, and
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: he actually, like a man talk to me. I looked
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: to him, you know, I watched them countless nights up
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: two three days working on his case in a don't
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: I'm talking. We set up in the same play sports together,
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: and you know, he was preparing himself for this date,
• 18:21
  Speaker 5: but I wasn't. I only had hope, you know. And
• 18:26
  Speaker 5: it was people like him that encouraged me to start
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: writing The Innocent Project. He saying, all right, have you
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: said you're innocent?
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Innocent Project? So you know it's people like him, and
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: not knowing that, you know, years later, the same person
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: that helped him get out of present would help actually
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: take my.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Case, Jarvis wrote to the Innocence Project in New Orleans,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Ipno for sure, and they eventually took his case and
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: helped him fight for his designeration.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: In terms of investigating this case, we began to collect
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: all the documents right related to this case, file for
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: police records, to court files, anything and everything we get
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: our hands on. And it's challenging to get access to
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: old records.
• 19:08
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Sometimes they're lost, sometimes they're misplaced. Sometimes they give you
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: copies that's heavily redacted. Sometimes they give you copies with
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: missing pages.
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: And so I have to say it took us more
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: time than we should have for us to gather, not.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Just for the audience, the time that takes investigate.
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: Oh my goodness. I mean there's been some sort of
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: investigation happening since two thousand and eight, two twenty seventeen, right,
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I mean we're talking nine years, right, And so what
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: we learned, So during trial, we already talked about the
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: witness Lewis Caesar, Right, the neighbor who initially stated that
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: he saw two men leaving the house and there's a
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: woman in the car. Right, That was his initial statement
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: to the police. What he testified to a trial was
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: not that though. What he testified to a trial was
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: that he saw three men three men. That was his
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: testimony at trial, so his testimony completely changed. Joey doesn't
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: hear that he's wired.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And cross examined for.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: Not The lawyer doesn't really know either, right.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: The lawyer doesn't he doesn't get the file.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: He doesn't get the file, and or he doesn't conduct
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: the investigation. He never went and interviewed Lewis Caesar before trial.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: He is an eyewitness in this case, and the attorney
• 20:25
  Speaker 4: representing Jarvis never thought it was important enough to go
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: talk to an eyewitness in the case. So the lawyer
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: doesn't know about this, right.
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: The DNA always probably be like the center of it,
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: because we know all we need to do is get
• 20:37
  Speaker 5: all the other pieces of evidence. Well, I could see,
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: all right, we know Javis was innocent. And actually I
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: didn't know this. Topno found that out recently, that they
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: didn't test my rape kit. But he tested partial.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Parts of it, so it's certain parts that he didn't test.
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: But basically when he ran the test bank, everything still
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: came back. He's I don't reading me.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, it was a combination of things that got Jarvis
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: out of prison. Ipno obtained affidavits from witnesses to the
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: crime and to Jarvis's alibi, and retesting the rape could
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: showed that none of jarvis DNA was present. After round
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: of appeals, the district attorney released Jarvis Ballad from prison
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: and affirmed his innocence. But before they told Jarvis he
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: was getting out, one of his lawyers, Charill Arnold, had
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: a bit of fun with him.
• 21:24
  Speaker 5: Shara was supposed to send me a business book. She
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: never signed it, so I said, why you didn't send
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: my book? She said, I'm gonna have to find another
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: way to make it up to you, because she liked
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: the Joe too. I said, yeah, well you you know
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: you say you're gonna say it. She said, well, how
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: can I make it up to you? I said, you
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: can get me out there. She said, no, we're going
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: to do that tomorrow. Brush. See what she said. They
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: threw all your charges out. You're coming home tomorrow. If
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: we had a world where it was one side and
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: you just let crime go, probably wouldn't be here, you
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: and a lot of us. But they need. That's the
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: only way this world operate. You need to have that.
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: But sometimes people get arrested bad like you and I
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: and the process of that. You know, I'm still young,
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: I'm still active. I like to work out. I have
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: value fund. I play with the kids. I'm like a
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: big old child when I go to the fair. Guess
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: where I'm at on the on the rise with the kids.
• 22:33
  Speaker 5: The two hundred and fifty pound elament. I might can't
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: get on this wanting they go somewhere else.
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Jarvis home since August eight months.
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: That's work. That's where I work at. I work in
• 22:45
  Speaker 5: the Federal Fifth Circuit Court House, remodeling.
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: Irony, listen, God works, gone is good?
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: Put me in his fleece. I'm be they remodeling it.
• 22:58
  Speaker 5: So I'm working with the construction people and I'm getting
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: on the elevator with guess what judges that then probably
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: seen my keys. But when I told one of those
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: guys my story and he gouled it, he liked, man, congratulations,
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: you know, And I let him know that I respect
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: everything he stand for. I really do you know. I
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: respect everything that Genie's stand for.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: By chance, Jarvis ran into District Attorney Perry Nicosia, the
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: man who dismissed the case allowed him to walk free
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: after twenty three years behind bars, and they had the
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: opportunity to talk.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: You know, I met Perry and he was like, man,
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: I'm very very very sorry. I'm like, Perry, Man, you
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: did the right thing, and I appreciate that. That's the
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: day you did the right thing. I say, Man, I
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: really appreciate that.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Jerome Morgan, the one who encouraged Jarvis to reach out
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: to IPNO in the first place. He was also there
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: to help him cope with this transition to free world living.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: But when you come in prison, man, it's a different
• 23:59
  Speaker 5: typen atmosphere. And when you meet good people like this guy,
• 24:03
  Speaker 5: you know, you want to hold on to them, you know,
• 24:06
  Speaker 5: because it's very specially coming out of that place. Because
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: the same way he smiled, and I'm been smiling the
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: whole time. I got emotional and serious, but the whole
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: time I always had a legitterate, happy attitude. We don't
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: let what happened to us, you know, distraw so have
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: us to the point where we got a lot of
• 24:25
  Speaker 5: hate and bitterness in us. We don't do that. We
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: describe for better. And he teaches me that every day
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: and that's the journey. I'm all right now, I really
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: want to focus on, you know, trying to you know,
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: get in position to where when hypno call us, we
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: can be there for those dudes. You know, it ain't
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: much about being financial to just being there, and he
• 24:48
  Speaker 5: do that issue with everybody, and that's the type of
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: relationship that we're trying to create for people that's coming
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: home through this program.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Jerome was a previous guest on this podcast, and now
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: back to talk about how he and Jarvis are teaming
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: up to help other dexigneries coming home in New Orleans.
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: I never thought that I would be back along these lines,
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: but I appreciate how this has come about because we
• 25:14
  Speaker 7: went through some of the similar things by being wrongfully
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: convicted and being in prison where it don't matter if
• 25:21
  Speaker 7: you're guilty or not, you still get the same treatment.
• 25:23
  Speaker 7: You can't acclimate yourself to society how they operating, you
• 25:27
  Speaker 7: know now and as they were when you was in prison.
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: You know, so you have to, I guess self, create
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: a way to live in that space because there's no
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: roadmath for you. And the closest roadmath for somebody is
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: coming home to the arms of people who have been
• 25:44
  Speaker 7: through that situation. That's what we want to provide now.
• 25:47
  Speaker 7: And I'm glad that you know, Jarvis has you know,
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: been encouraged and inspired to do that throughout his time,
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: even in prison. You know, it shows that he honestly
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: wants to be a positive person and despite the negative
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: things that has happened to them and to me. You know,
• 26:04
  Speaker 7: that's some of the greatest people in the world.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: So we'll have the link in the bio for IPNO
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: as well as your GoFundMe And I really really want
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: thank you for trust me to tell your story. I
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: really do, like I've never met you before, so this
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: is amazing for me. It's a process for me. And
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: just know that you can call me personally anytime. Okay,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: because my brother and my exignery brothers in that exoneration.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: We're at the part of the show now where it's
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: called closing arguments, where well I turn off my mic
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: and just kind of let you guys speak your peace
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and say what's on your mind to the audience and
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: You know. IPNO has freed or exonerated forty individuals who've
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: served over nine hundred and seventy five years in prison
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: for crimes they did not commit. And that is just
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: a drop in the bucket. You know, there's over five
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: thousand and men and women in Louisiana prison is doing
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: a life sentence without the possibility of parole. These men
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: and women are not coming home, just like you know,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: Jerome and Jarvis before it got involved, and so there's
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: a lot to be done still, and I'm really I
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: feel really privileged for this opportunity to speak with Jerome,
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: to speak with Jarvis, to speak with Patrick and Burr
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: having this moment with them. So thank you.
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: And she said, I just appreciate everything, you know, even
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: the people that don't need you know, is appreciated, you know,
• 27:35
  Speaker 5: because like I said earlier, got a lot of people
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: that's not going to be in this shoe. A lot
• 27:42
  Speaker 5: of innocent people are gonna not make it because you know,
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: if knowingly have the resources to do so many cases
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: and hopefully before this is, you know, before I close
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: my eyes, they'll probably be bigger it is now. Because
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: I think everybody deserve a chain, like me and Jerome,
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: but unfortunately we know it don't work like that.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to wrongful Conviction. I like to
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: thank our executive producers Jason Flem and Kevin Wadis. The
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: senior producer for this episode is Jackie Polly and our
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: producers are Lela Robinson, Conner Hall and Jeff Cliveborne. Our
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: editor is Roxander Gwedy and special thanks to Jillian Forstad
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: for help on this episode. The music and this production
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at wrong
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Conviction as well as Lava for Good On all three platforms.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You can also follow me on Facebook and Instagram at
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: free Patrick Pursley at i Am Kit Culture two and
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: online at i Am Kit culture dot org. Wrongful Conviction
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: with Signal Company Number One.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: On next week's guest hosted episode of Wrongful Conviction, Chris
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Fabricat will be talking to Gilbert Pool about the nonsensical
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: bitemark evidence that landed Gilbert in prison for thirty two
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: years for a crime he had absolutely nothing to do with.
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Chris is a personal hero of mine and we have
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a deep connection because Chris is the man who kicked
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: off and occupies the Joe Flamm Chair at the Innocence
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Project named after my dad, and his position as Strategic
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Litigation Director is so critical to our work and our
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: mission at the Innocence Project, And of course what it
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: means is that Chris not only helps to exonerate innocent
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: people by shining a light on many of the junk
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: sciences that are routinely accepted as real science in courtrooms
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: across our country, but he then uses those examples of
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: these grotesque injustices to affect policy and change and to
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: change practices. Listen next Monday in the Wrongful Conviction podcast
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: feed