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Giving Up Billionaires for Lent · We Can Do Better

• Fran Quigley: Hello and welcome to We Can Do Better, a podcast about ending poverty in our time. I'm your host, Fran Quigley. I'm a law professor who goes with my students every week to eviction court. There we represent some of the millions of people in the United States who are facing the loss of their homes. And many of our clients and folks across the country are also forced to skip filling prescriptions, go without health care, and even go hungry, despite living in the richest nation in the world. We can do better. Other nations already do far better and the United States has done better in the past. So this podcast lifts up the many people and organizations working to make housing, health care, and a decent life enforceable human rights for all. Which is why we are excited this week to welcome Sister Emily Ticolstee. Sister Emily is a member of the grassroots mobilization team of Network Advocates and Lobby for Catholic Social Justice, founded by Catholic Sisters all the way back in nineteen seventy one. Sister Emily engages network advocates and supporters in Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Missouri, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Emily is herself a sister of Providence as a and has a long history of volunteer activism and organizing and service, which we are going to hear more about and definitely more about her and network's important prophetic work. So, Sister Emily, welcome to the new podcast. Emily: Thanks for it. So good to see you. You know, I was telling someone I've known you longer than I've known Network, so it's good to have this opportunity to reconnect. Fran Quigley: ⁓ good. Yeah, and I'm older than Network too. If it's it started in nineteen seventy one, I'd go back that far. So so let's talk a little bit about your background and your journey to to this role. What what led you to being ⁓ a sister of Providence and a ⁓ member of Network's team. Emily: Ha. Well, the two two big questions and I think they Those stories intersect quite a bit. So I grew up in suburban Indianapolis, ⁓ in a white flight suburb. didn't really ⁓ a lot of experience with ⁓ poverty in a in a real way, until I went to ⁓ Xavier University in Cincinnati and ⁓ those as they like to do, ruined me for life. I started doing some volunteer work and one of the programs I joined was a get to know the city through ⁓ service. Except second semester they switched Fran Quigley: Mm-hmm. Emily: To get to know the city through justice. I started learning about all of these injustices in our world. ⁓ it it quickly transformed me and took me down a rabbit hole of learning more, ⁓ getting sociology, which ended up being my major, but also ⁓ in extracurricular ⁓ activities well the curriculum-based stuff, ⁓ really diving into issues of justice and injustice in our world. And so ⁓ when I graduated, I knew that that that was what I wanted to do with my life and and found various ways get there. initially on farm and living back home where I'd grown up, ⁓ but then I moved into a Catholic worker community in Indianapolis and Just another step on, you know, addressing issues of poverty and justice, living in intentional community with people who were very like-minded. And that's I met the Sisters of Providence, or I guess re-met the Sisters of Providence. And my reaction to somebody moving into the community who was ⁓ on her to becoming a Sister of Providence was: great, a nun that's gonna ruin all our fun. But I quickly learned we had so much in common. ⁓ a lot of shared interests, including sustainable agriculture and food justice, ⁓ two places we were both working or had been working ⁓ but broader justice issues as well, ⁓ started to get to know the Sisters of Providence through her. And it it resonated. a life mission and ⁓ service with a grounded spirituality, so much of of what I had learned about some of the Great social justice folks, ⁓ folks like Dan Berrigan and then Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama were grounded in a religious tradition or a spiritual tradition that that kind of ⁓ them have grounding to do that work, that hard of justice seeking and building a better world. And and so I to join the Sisters of Providence, ⁓ and ⁓ actually Sisters of Providence were one of the founding communities of Network over 50 years ago. and so at point I was looking for a new ministry and there was an opportunity with Network and ⁓ I won't get into the details but various things I I had already connected with Network a little bit and ⁓ and just felt like a right fit. So I've been in this role for almost seven years now so I think I think it was a right fit. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Yeah. Alrighty. Yeah. Seven years. All right. so yeah, I mean you you mentioned that you you your worry was that ⁓ if you had a nun join the the team that it was gonna d ⁓ your fun and and w and many of us have ⁓ preconceptions of what nuns do and ⁓ what they don't do, right? That yeah that they're gonna be that nuns are going to be folks who are ⁓ only engaged in prayer and and cloistered from the community, etcetera. Obviously network is not that. So can you talk a little bit about how network was created and and w ⁓ that ⁓ how that's led to the work you're doing today. Emily: Yeah, so a little over fifty years ago, in the wake of the Sud Second Vatican Council, all sorts of social movements going on in our country. sisters came together in DC, ⁓ forty seven ⁓ sisters came together and said, We want to learn how to do advocacy. ⁓ big makers have lobbyists ⁓ in forcing pushing that benefit them. ⁓ We need do that for those who are struggling on the margins. And in the wake of Vatican II, a lot of sisters left their more institutional roles, running schools and hospitals and those sorts of things and started with community ⁓ a variety of ways, looking at individualized ministries instead of just institutional ministries. And so they encountering these issues of poverty in in new ways ⁓ and the systems ⁓ that contributing to them and ⁓ decided the systems needed to be changed. And so there was a big gap in ⁓ advocacy. And decided to come together learn how to do it. And then at that first meeting, ⁓ they realized needed to create a structure to actually stay in the work ⁓ more than just on a volunteer And so just a few months the network staff started with, I think, a hundred and some dollars in the bank ⁓ and ⁓ a few who could volunteer. To full-time lead this ministry and engaged in congregational work, congregational organizing. And so they had phone trees and all of that where they could ⁓ into the work on a regular basis. Obviously, technology has changed significantly since then, and we engaging with more than just sisters now, because the numbers of have declined as we've kind of right-sized what is needed in this moment. ⁓ And we've had the opportunity to engage and bring people across across traditions even, which are still very rooted in a Catholic tradition, ⁓ but are open to all who share our passion and our values and are to create a better world for everybody. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Yeah, yeah. Well in that better world and I'm gonna ⁓ we'll we'll definitely let folks know about how to how to follow you. We'll talk about that towards the end and we'll put that in the show notes. But ⁓ as I look that the ⁓ the network's issue agenda for Catholic social justice encompasses healthcare, taxes, labor, immigration, and climate, if I've got the list correct here. so can you talk a little bit about before we talk about the specifics of those ⁓ issues which I'd like to talk a little bit about. ⁓ can you make the case for why faith communities can have an impact, or maybe should sh maybe is two questions. It should should faith communities be involved in this kind of advocacy. And the second question is what kind of impact can faith communities have? And and I'm I'm sure most folks who listen to this podcast are aware of of of religious communities, you know, deep involvement in the abolition movement, the civil rights movement, et cetera. But This is twenty twenty six. So ⁓ can you you know, what kind of case do you make when folks say, Hey, this you know, why should religious communities, why should Catholics be in involved in politics, the dirty, messy world of politics, right? Emily: It's a great question. ⁓ and Pope Francis was known to say good Catholic medals in politics. ⁓ that that Catholic social teaching in its kind of official formation goes back to the 1890s with Pope Leo XIII, for whom our current Pope is named after, as he started to see the rise of the Industrial Res Revolution and how that was impacting the real lives of people. He said the church has a role to play ⁓ in declaration of human dignity, ⁓ that that human dignity is is prime and ⁓ the Pope Leo just released an encyclical. That basically reiterates that in the age of AI. But, you know, kind ⁓ on a more personal note, the way I see it is kind of twofold. ⁓ that years, faith communities have been not the only people, but they have been on the doing the work. And so in doing direct they're close to and connected with some of these issues ⁓ that our structural are creating. They know the people who are forced to live in poverty by the systems ⁓ that we have. Fran Quigley: Yeah. Emily: Place, they know the struggles and they can see in a real way. And so bringing that story and that narrative to the national scene, to the conversations we're having ⁓ policy is really important because that is the impact of the policy we're creating. We're not just creating ⁓ policy a vacuum, right? It has impact on the real lives of people, ⁓ and being that connection I think is a really important piece. ⁓ The thing that I think is really, really important is in a ri ⁓ in a period. Of a rising Christian nationalism, it is incumbent on faith communities to be an alternative voice and to say this is actually Christian nationalism is not the gospel, we need to provide by being vocal and being faith first in our messaging, ⁓ need to ⁓ ⁓ alternate narrative so that folks for whom faith matters ⁓ that there's another way to practice faith, ⁓ that there's a generosity in in a Christian faith speaking from ⁓ from a personal perspective in a Christian faith, I think this cuts across faith traditions, but especially ⁓ a counter to Christian nationalism. ⁓ that Christianity is rooted in generosity and justice and human dignity, and that's the root of our faith. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Yeah, that's wonderful. But and and you you mentioned across traditions. You all work very closely with similar advocacy groups from ⁓ other Christian traditions, Judaism, Islam, etcetera. Can you talk a little about one one story that that I'm always inspired by is the Affordable Care Act, which is of course not perfect but but is really providing you d literally life saving care to to millions and millions of of people. in many respects ⁓ owes ⁓ existence to multi faith efforts, right? And and the fact that it ⁓ the Affordable Care Act survived the first Trump administration's attacks was a ⁓ in large part a multi faith effort. So can you talk a little bit about how you do work with our sisters and brothers across all kinds of faith traditions? Emily: Sure. So a lot of that is based in Washington. Washington staff, I I'm based in Indiana. our our folks that that lead the government relations teams coordinate the depth of that work. ⁓ but we do have there's a Washington Interfaith Staff Coalition where faith communities come come together across faith traditions ⁓ to plan coordinate and do advocacy. So sometimes I'm recruiting ⁓ folks from a particular district to go on a a lobby visit with their representative ⁓ and in background ⁓ my colleague is working with other organizations who are recruiting their folks. ⁓ we might work deeply with the Friends Committee on National Legislation. We do work deeply ⁓ with that with FCNL. ⁓ we might work deeply with the the Presbyterian Church, we work with the Islamic relief services, ⁓ we've done significant coordination with Mazon, ⁓ which is Jewish hunger advocacy organization, ⁓ and we share office space with Bend the Ark, another Jewish a Jewish advocacy organization. And so it really for us it's a it's a the surface we do the policy advocacy together, ⁓ we really s strive to be deeper and build those relationships, ⁓ even in terms of where we're we're sharing space together ⁓ the office. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Yeah, and it's wonderful that the the shared values, the Venn diagram encompasses all all those faith traditions. That's wonderful. ⁓ so you're advocating and organizing from a religious perspective, yet you you get to I I think it's interest I think folks need to know you have fun with it too, because I'm I'm thinking about one particular recent video where you I know was it this year or last year? I can't remember. But you said we're giving up billionaires for Lent. And I thought this is you know, it's so talk a little bit about, you know, within this constraints of of being properly respectful and reverential as a sister of Providence, ⁓ and and also working in the Catholic tradition, you know, you know, how how do you connect with folks in the community ⁓ when when you're making your air advocacy pitch? Emily: I love that you brought up that. That was one of my favorite campaigns that we've ever done because it's sassy and feisty, and we talk about those as values of what we call Sister Spirit. So founded by Sisters, most of our staff today is not Catholic sisters. So how do we bring that legacy forward and we call that sister spirit? And so pursuing gospel justice with joy and feistiness and creativity, I think, are really, really important, ⁓ in this era where ⁓ everything is. Hard like the world is hard right now, and to find those moments of joy in the work, I think is really, really important. ⁓ and it makes us more creative, it makes us ⁓ catchier, it makes us you know give up billionaires for Lent is the reactions that you get from folks when you say that. The fact that you brought it up illustrates that. just it it points to me ⁓ a deeper level of I mean of the value of like c creative feisty messaging but also of how tying things to That so that that sin is not just a personal thing. And so when we think about Lent, we often think about I'm gonna give up this or I'm gonna repent in these ways of my personal things. But that s sin is structural and systemic. ⁓ and the Catholic Church has long taught this, right? That those who hoard wealth, actually that is sinful, that societies that allow the hoarding of wealth is sinful. ⁓ Leo reiterated that in his first document, ⁓ Deleuxite. ⁓ where he said that if I'm not gonna quote directly, but he said basically, if somebody who doesn't have the very basic necessities of life, they actually have the right to take that from those who have far more than they need. ⁓ in our society and in a federal level, we're talking that's taxes, right? that's taxes that pay for the things that we all deserve. ⁓ we all deserve ⁓ decent care, a home that is safe, a neighborhood that is Safe, the ability to put food on the table, healthy food, ⁓ to afford utilities, ⁓ to have affordable, high quality health care that's not gonna put us in bankruptcy. All of those things, and we can have those things, we just have billionaires hoarding a whole bunch of wealth and getting tax breaks, continuously getting tax breaks. And so that the Give Up Billionaires for Lent campaign was really speaking to that. it was it was last year, so it was right before the Big bad budget bill passed ⁓ gave trillions of dollars in tax breaks to the wealthiest individuals and corporations ⁓ and food from people who needed it, ⁓ took health care from people who needed it, and we're seeing those impacts in our communities ⁓ right as people are are facing ⁓ being from from Medicaid coverage for missing paperwork, to jump more and more hoops ⁓ just to Fran Quigley: Okay. Emily: Get health care that they need. I have a friend who's type one diabetic and wasn't ⁓ to get his his supplies, because he had a gat lapse in his Medicaid coverage due to just ⁓ not receiving some paperwork in the mail. and and that what is happening as result of these bills ⁓ that are giving tax to billionaires. And so that's really what Giving Billionaires campaign for Giving up billionaires for Lent campaign was speaking to Fran Quigley: Right, right. Well, I will say that the network lobby and network advocates websites ⁓ are very clear with a whole lot of policy wonk information for those of us who like that. But also you can download your own God's Economy Has No Billionaire sign, right? That you can actually create your own And so yeah, I appreciate that and appreciate your your focus on on on the tax code and how ⁓ You know, it's not a zero sum game completely, but when we do give, and that's what's what happened last summer was we our leaders gave ⁓ all these tax breaks to to corporations and and billionaires and multimillionaires and and as you say, we're starting to see that with our clients in eviction court. People are and and their red tape ⁓ are designed just ⁓ do just that. They're not accidental, right? To kick people off of food stamps and off of Medicaid and to ⁓ to lessen the costs and ⁓ as a result. So ⁓ when you know, you do the advocacy to to lawmakers, do do lawmakers listen to you? Do they listen to ⁓ the faith communities, do they listen to ⁓ to network and and the folks that that you organize and and and why ⁓ would they would they listen to you and and maybe have a change of heart or or be more informed about a position? Emily: Yeah, I think it really depends. of the the the data of when when folks like the Congressional Management Foundation have done ⁓ of offices, of of congressional offices, ⁓ it's your member has not already reached a firm conclusion, how much impact do these different forms of have. So I think there's there's something to be said in fact that form email messages, fifty some percent of offices still said form email messages have some ⁓ on their legislator. ⁓ Fran Quigley: ⁓ interesting. Emily: Which I would have thought like don't even bother with a form email message to be honest. But that to me that's and it's so much lower than so many of the other techniques. ⁓ personalizing, adding your own couple of sentences shoots that up almost twenty percentage points. Right. So that those kinds of like just tactical tri tricks and tips I think can be really helpful. But I think the other thing is is of Congress and their staff listen, they're human just like the rest of us. ⁓ they listen Fran Quigley: Right, right. Emily: Based on threats to their continued jobs. So building power, bringing more people in. they also listen based on relationship, that people with whom they have trusted relationships ⁓ get more of their time and they may not initially with them, but they might build that relationship over time and that can be transformative. So ⁓ folks ask, like, ⁓ my of Congress is hopeless, why would I bother reaching out? Well, do you want them only to hear the other side? Right? Do you want them only to hear the things that are against our values? Because if you even are just a little bit a little voice in their ear saying something different that means that the other side does not have a monopoly on what they're listening to. I think the other thing is, you know, on the f on the flip side, my member of Congress is solid. Why would I hear f why would I bother reaching out to them? Well they need to be short up sometimes. sometimes they need to be pushed a little farther. ⁓ for a bill is not the same thing as talking to their fellow members of Congress and convincing them to vote for the bill ⁓ co sponsoring The bill or pushing it forward, all of those things. So our members can always take a next step making happen. But you are also ⁓ their to constituents, and constituents' stories ⁓ can really transformative. Those are things that they can then bring into the ⁓ into the ⁓ Capitol read into the congressional record ⁓ and with their fellow members of Congress. And so stories ⁓ and what seeing on the ground can can also be really influential. back to the the power piece. I think the other thing is ⁓ an organizer, I'm always wanting to build more skills in a community to get more people involved and getting more people involved includes just supporting folks and seeing that they have the power to do something. They have the skills to do something and what they do can make a difference. And think that's that can be slow work, but I think that is ultimately the work that we are doing. And that is that is the important ⁓ ⁓ work that we all can be doing in this moment. Fran Quigley: Yeah, that's great. And Sister Emily, I really appreciate you saying how important it is to reach out to your your representative if they are either usually against you or usually for you, because that's the way we are with gerrymandering now, right? We don't have a lot of folks who are in the middle and we're gonna have to figure out how we advocate to to folks who we consider to be either reliably ⁓ or reliably on our side, right? Do you have I mean, we we talked a little bit about it, there's there's big picture historical earth shattering moments where where faith based advocacy has has, you know, ended slavery, has has instituted civil rights, et cetera. But you're you're organizing folks in these states to, as you say, try to build relationship with congressional staffers, congr and congressional members, et cetera. Do you do you and folks at Network, do you have any like favorite stories or examples where you can talk about how Just that that personal connection has has opened some minds and and maybe influenced some things to to go in the right direction. Emily: ⁓ you mentioned the Affordable Care Act earlier, so I'm gonna I'm gonna go on that one a little bit. ⁓ that was before my time at Network, but it is legendary because ⁓ then speaker Nancy Pelosi credited what was called the Nuns Letter with getting that across the finish line. So if you think about the era, right, you had the US bishops who were against it because they were worried about abortion issues that were, you know, they Fran Quigley: Yeah. Yeah. Pelvic theology is the term I've been hearing lately, right? I'll say that. You don't have to say it. Emily: ⁓ yeah, so the bishops the US Bishop Yeah. Bishops Conference was against the bill. I will point out that the Bishops Conference was also against the repeal of the Affordable Care Act years later when the Trump administration the first time tried to repeal it. so they came around. but you had the US Bishops Conference against the bill, you had network and other faith-based organizations working for healthcare for all. And we were able to coordinate a letter signed by the leadership of many religious congregations, ⁓ communities of sisters in particular. whether or not this is true, ⁓ then Speaker Nancy Pelosi credits that bill with being the thing that gave enough Catholic members of Congress permission to vote for this ⁓ when bishops were saying no. So ⁓ I you know, specifics of policy ⁓ aside, right, like You you mentioned the bill's not perfect. But it moved us along to be in a place where far more people have access to health care than did before. and I ⁓ benefited from it because I was able to stay on my parents' health insurance ⁓ my twenties ⁓ of this bill. ⁓ so it it it impacted a whole bunch of people ⁓ really, really powerful ways and and made sure folks had access to health care. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Right. Right. Well, you know, you mentioned your your friend with type one diabetes and and done some work with that community advocacy and and the age of twenty six when folks do age out of the Affordable Care Act mandates to to be able to be on their their parent health insurance. I mean that's a deadly year for persons living with type one and other health conditions because the Affordable Care Act protections you know, start start to erode and and yeah, there's just no question. I mean it's it's it's the I whenever you're doing advocacy at the level you're doing it and doing it ⁓ to try to increase ⁓ federal protections, it's you can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, right? ⁓ a lot of people have had a lot of positive things happen from a imperfect piece of legislation as they all are, right? Emily: Right. Fran Quigley: And speaking of which, so so if if I'm and and correct me if I'm mistaken, but the the current agenda, the way that you all are describing it at network as the economy for all agenda and and and c encompassing things like living wages and paid leave and humane immigration system, how how do would you describe an an elevator pitch of what the economy for all agenda looks like? What are what are what are your what's your vision for what the federal government should be doing? Emily: So an economy for all is is quite simply an economy that puts people first, not profits. ⁓ that where everyone has access to the things they need to live a good and decent life and maybe have a little fun on top of it. but it's an economy for all because one of the things that we're really committed to is addressing racial injustices ⁓ addressing the ways that racism has been used ⁓ vite to divide us against each other and has white people against their own self-interest even. Because we have been been taught that that anti-racism efforts are a threat to white thriving. But there's some really, really good work out there, scholarly work. Heather McGee is probably the most well known purveyor of this that when start attacking because we think they benefit people of color, ⁓ we are the very things that benefit all of us. ⁓ And the is true, you know, in a new way. Being done with the LGBTQ community, particularly with trans folks, right? That the policies that are meant to harm certain groups of people actually end up harming all of us. And the policies that harm all of us up harming certain groups the most. People of color, ⁓ and trans folks ⁓ particular. And when we come together, we actually have enough power ⁓ to a world that works for all of us. But the billionaires, the ruling class don't want to. To believe that, right? They don't want us to see that we can we can things because ⁓ think that this world benefits them. But the truth is it doesn't. all public ⁓ indicators that everybody does better in a more equal society. So it doesn't really benefit the billionaires either. ⁓ They just it does. ⁓ So an for all ⁓ econom Fran Quigley: And so no go, go, go, yeah. Emily: An economy for all is a an economy where everyone is able to live in their human dignity to the best ⁓ that we are able to provide as a whole society. Fran Quigley: So what does the what is the strategy look like for you all right now during ⁓ what I will say, you don't have to say it is a a administration that's hostile to poor people and in a Congress where the majority's been hostile to poor people and as you say, by the what what I I I give it the name they gave it, which is the one big beautiful bill act, but you gave you gave it a better one. What did you say is the one bad budget? Emily: the the big bad budget bill. Or big bad budget law, technically. Fran Quigley: Big bad budget bill. I like that better. Okay. I I like that better. so so right now, you know, in twenty twenty six with ⁓ in it just a very difficult environment, ⁓ at the federal level and and of course at many state levels as well, you know, what's the strategy now of as an advocate for social justice and an advocate for an economy for all? You know, what What ⁓ you just trying with harm reduction at the moment? You're trying to build for a a better future. What what what do you focus on? Emily: That's a great question, and I would say both. ⁓ the harm reduction side on the legislative side is what are the things that we can stop or make less bad? so of the wins that we had in the the big bad budget law were were few, ⁓ but there there were a few. Things got less bad than they might have been than was originally proposed. The also there there are some good things legislative go legislatively going on. ⁓ there is a pretty massive housing bill going through Congress right now. it gone back and forth between the House and Senate a couple of times ⁓ and not as strong as it once was. We're kind of waiting to see what what might the Senate do now that the House has passed a ⁓ a less version of the bill. so so there's some strategy and and really wonky legislative stuff going on on that side. But but there is good news that there's those conversations are real. ⁓ we are in some conversations around the renegotiating of the US MCA, the United States, Mexico, Canada agreement, the the new version of NAFTA. there's some some possibilities to make some significant improvements in that ⁓ discussion, in that renegotiation. so there are s ⁓ it's not all and there's a lot harm going on. And so as an organizer, what I'm thinking about is am I engaging folks in some of that harm reduction work, but also how am I using ⁓ of those opportunities ⁓ ⁓ leadership, to build community, to to build teams ⁓ do advocacy work. So we've been doing a lot of work around narrative building in communities. We've over my time at network have moved more and more from just focused on advocacy into organizing and And really engaging our advocates in deeper community organizing work. We launched an organizing institute this year, a four-month program that's pretty intensive, and have I think 83 participants in that from across the country, particularly in some of our key strategic areas. so folks are ⁓ pop-up rallies or hosting larger rallies or doing canvassing with our budget zine about the big, bad budget law, ⁓ collecting stories from people in the their communities. We are also launching next month. So by the time this airs, probably this month, in June, the a new piece of our organizing work, which is network squads. Squads will be small hyper-local groups that take action together once a month. They'll have three squad goals each month to choose from. And so really designed to be ⁓ folks the tools they need to do something concrete in their own communities. Fran Quigley: Hm. Emily: Without the same degree of s of staff support as ⁓ of our ⁓ work around policy specific. And so ⁓ part of a national movement called the Organizing Revival that really is looking at organizing as an antidote to authoritarianism and how we build power, taking these big mobilization moments and really using to develop relationships ⁓ and bring into less exciting work of. Of meeting with your members of Congress. Standing around holding a sign at a protest be much more exciting ⁓ meeting with your member of Congress and talking about wonky details and all of that. ⁓ both matter, both are important, and so how are we bringing more people into the that we're doing, both in developing relationships your neighbors and developing relationships with their members of Congress? ⁓ Fran Quigley: That's great. And and and again, you do both because ⁓ you you facilitate that in your organizing and and the organization does at the national level. I know it. I don't want it to go unremarked that you now have squad goals as actually part of the the organizing strategy. That's that's wonderful. I wanna ask a little bit about the connection you made and we and you talked about why the faith community is ⁓ is and should be important in social justice advocacy in that tied in with the faith community's role in service in in in direct ⁓ response to people who are hungry, people who are unhoused, people who are struggling financially, ⁓ or or emotionally. so you're organizing folks across all these states ⁓ ⁓ I would I w how many of the folks that you're organizing to be advocates are also themselves engaged in service in the community, volunteering at a food bank or or what have you? ⁓ is that connection something Emily: Yeah, I I don't know that I can give you a number answer, but I can think of some examples. ⁓ one of our former team lead in Philadelphia, Tom, who's since gone on to be leading some eco-philly work, but he is still engaged in the team ⁓ and one the things that he does is volunteer at a ⁓ a local soup kitchen, I I believe at his parish. And so when been doing some work around protecting Snap, this was a couple of years ago, he was able to actually get videos of people. Who are impacted by these policies sharing, so that he could maybe those folks themselves couldn't come to the meeting with their congressmen, ⁓ he could bring their stories and give them the chance to tell their stories. ⁓ one that definitely definitely sticks out to me. There are there are many other examples. ⁓ we also do work ⁓ people who themselves are staff or lead direct service organizations ⁓ and to do some advocacy. ⁓ So really depends. And then I think the other thing is some of our teams. That do advocacy work are also really intentional about reaching out to the organizations that are doing the direct service work. So whether or not they're deeply engaged in that work themselves, we all have limited time, ⁓ they're really intentional about ha trying to make those connections with folks who do have those stories. And whether or not it's ⁓ them directly into the advocacy or bringing their stories and their data and their information ⁓ the ⁓ the conversation with a member of Congress, both of those kind of approaches really make a difference. Fran Quigley: Mm-hmm. And how do you have the conversation or how do the folks you organize have the conversation with the people in their congregations, their communities who do only service and do not do advocacy or maybe even are voting in a way that's not that is actually harming the people that they're handing out a food to at the pantry, right? And it's so it's a it's a real disconnect ⁓ across the country and maybe even more so in some faith communities where people's personal, charitable and philanthropic acts ⁓ are undermined by their their politicals the political viewpoints and political votes or even donations. So those are tough conversations. ⁓ how do how do you and your team have those conversations? Emily: That's a it's a great question. ⁓ I've been in in conversation with somebody who up a a faith based organization who wants to do more advocacy and is very clear that some of her board members have different politics and kind that grappling with how do you bring folks along, that that's real. And I think it's a little bit at a time and and you have to pick and choose where where your spaces are. I've I've had conversations with a a former head of a an organization that his role as telling the story so to solicit private donations and I said, How much of your federal how much of your funding for your work is federal? And it was ⁓ above fifty percent. ⁓ yet doing around federal funding was ⁓ in way seen as Threat to the other fundraising that we needed to do, that they needed to do to keep their work ⁓ going. And so it's it can be really complicated and messy because you do need those private funds to keep going, but you also need the federal funds, and how do you balance those two in such a polarized world? I think we've folks that that are trying to host conversations around like a whole of life framework of issues that have gotten because I never thought about it that way. Fran Quigley: Interesting. Emily: Thought about pro-life being about providing health care and all of these other things. And so we have got folks doing really creative things. We don't necessarily need some of that work, ⁓ but but there are people across the country doing really creative ⁓ things. I think the the the big root is is relationship. in relationship, ⁓ Hari Han, a political scientist ⁓ who studies organizing, talks about ⁓ belonging before belief, that people actually ⁓ change their their political views based on belonging and feeling like they're contributing than they start contributing based on their political beliefs. There's a a a great sociological ⁓ about the pro-life movement and how they bring people in, and then their beliefs begin to transform. And so really those relational pieces, know, Father Richard Rohr runs the Center for Action and Contemplation, ⁓ and he and ⁓ Reverend Jackie Lewis and Reverend Brian McLaren had a podcast a few years ago called, I actually don't know if it's still going, called Learning How to See. And the first season was all just exploring kind of those those psychological biases Fran Quigley: ⁓ interesting. Emily: That we all have, that that community bias. We believe what people around us believe. And so when we can change, you know, and welcome people in, we can start to expand what their beliefs might be and help them to see things they might not have otherwise seen. Fran Quigley: That's great. The and and of course with the how how disconnected we are from community for so many of us and so folks are so many folks are so isolated that that ⁓ the belonging before belief and who who did you say was the was the the promoter of that? Emily: ⁓ Hari Han has ri has spoken extensively about it. I'm not gonna pronounce this name right, but Zaid Munson is the sociologist that wrote on the the pro-life movement that also ⁓ a lot of that is about belonging before belief. Fran Quigley: Okay. Okay. Well I'll do my research and try to get the spelling right because I'm sure I won't do it off without doing research. And ⁓ I'll we'll put that in in the show notes 'cause I think that's really really important. And obviously the core of what you're doing, you're an organizer, right? You're you're building community ⁓ from folks and and and having them come together. So ⁓ I would like to we're gonna run short on time soon, so I wanna I wanna do the a Catholic variation of of of the genie's three wishes. Let's say if you're if you had the power to get your prayers answered for just one policy reform, you know, you all have pushed for living wages and for paid leave and for, you know, universal health care, et cetera. ⁓ If you you could could your prayers are answered for just one policy reform, presumably in another administration, in a in a future administration, a future Congress, you know, what would you say is just number one? What what simply just has to be done first before to to address this inequality and poverty that we're seeing in our communities? Emily: Just one. Fran Quigley: You you're allowed to to to to to do subparts if you'd like to. Emily: mean my just one is is kind of any system in which everyone has what they need. So, you can talk about it in kind of direct service from the government, so ⁓ sure that childcare is universally available and and schools are universally available and jobs are universally available and all of those things. You can talk about it in in in all sorts of like ⁓ specific but that everyone has a safe house to live in, ⁓ meaningful ⁓ to to the world, health care ⁓ to make that that they have have everything they need ⁓ to stay healthy, food, all of those things. I think ⁓ the is human dignity ⁓ and sure everyone has those. So there are there are lots of ways we could think about how we do that, but but the end goal, right? Fran Quigley: That's great. That's great. And you make that that point. It's all intertwined. ⁓ probably an unfair question to ask for just one because you know, you you see that in eviction court, right? It's it's ⁓ folks are there because they're behind on their rent because they can't afford their housing. Well, that's because they had to pay for their insulin their insurance laps or because their transportation wasn't there. And often often it's child care, right? And they they don't have adequate, ⁓ safe, affordable child care, so that puts them behind. So so I I love that answer. Emily: Yeah. Fran Quigley: So you mentioned that that that the the folks you organize and and the folks that network pull together, obviously you work in in a in multi-faith environment, but also a lot of the folks that work with network aren't necessarily attending a Catholic church every every Sunday. so ⁓ so folks who are interested in in learning more, we're gonna put some ⁓ we'll put some links in the show notes. But you know, how can people learn more about your work? How can folks in, let me see if I've got all the states right. Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri, New Jersey. You've got a lot of swing states Those are really gonna be important states here coming up. Like they're always important states, right? how can folks there learn more about ⁓ follow your work? How can they learn more about maybe getting involved ⁓ with what you're doing? Emily: Yeah, so we have two websites, networkadvocates.org and networklobby.org. can check out the See networklobby.org is where you can find the squad's information that'll be up there. ⁓ get involved in that way is just grab a group of friends and take one action. We provide a guide. ⁓ it doesn't have to be a big do-something every week, just one action each month, ⁓ that can make a difference. ⁓ if you're in one of the six states that Fran just listed, or in Michigan, Virginia, California, Texas, ⁓ ⁓ New York, we have advocates teams in. those states. So that's a little different model. That's our our longstanding organizing model. We actually have an organizer that that works in those spaces. my my counterpart, Catherine. And we have for folks in not one of those states, we have a national advocates call once a month. So ⁓ sure sign up for our emailing list ⁓ at either networklablobby.org or networkadvocates.org and ⁓ we can you all those of that information or ⁓ reach out info at networklobby.org. Fran Quigley: Okay. And are you all I you on Blue Sky ⁓ Instagram or a particular ⁓ social ⁓ network that you that you focus on? Emily: ⁓ we are on all ⁓ the well, we are on Instagram, Blue Sky and Twitter or X. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Okay. ⁓ you do do still Twitter. Okay. That that's always the question with it's still there. It's still it's still people are still looking at things there. So Well Well, Sister Emily, this is great. Is there anything I didn't ask you or didn't we didn't cover that you'd like folks to know? Emily: It's it's still there. Exactly. I just wanna highlight the the title of your podcast, We Can Do Better, because we can. And gonna take all of us, but we can get there when we work together. And so grateful for your work in in sharing ⁓ the hopeful I think you've you've long done that on your your Substack ⁓ and now the podcast. And I I truly believe we can get there ⁓ and it's gonna be easy, but but we can do it. ⁓ Fran Quigley: Wonderful. Wow, I had a whole conclusion ready to go, but I'm not gonna do it because you just did it for me. So thank you, Sister Emily Teculste. Thank you all for listening. And remember, ⁓ we will be back next week. And in the meantime, don't forget, as Sister Emily told us, we can do better.