Latest / UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell / UnchainedTV: Meet the Oprah of Veganism!

Transcript

UnchainedTV: Meet the Oprah of Veganism! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

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Pollution, all it takes is one simple choice.
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Now, here's your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
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Hello, and boy, do we have an exciting
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guest for you today.
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He goes by Plant CEO, and I called
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him the Oprah of veganism.
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Then some people said, oh, well, is that
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a compliment or is it not a compliment?
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Well, I was in the news media for
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38 years, and I can tell you that
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Oprah is a genius at what she does.
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You may not like her, you may like
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her, but she knows what she's doing, and
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she's one of the most successful broadcasters in
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history.
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So when I said he's the Oprah of
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veganism, it was meant as a compliment.
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Now, Plant CEO interviews some of the biggest
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names in the vegan world, and we're delighted
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that he has a lovely series of these
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interviews on Unchained TV, our streaming network.
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You can listen to them for free.
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Here's a billionaire, here's people making vegan dog
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food, vegan stuntman, artificial intelligence expert, filmmaker, and
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of course, the head of Veganuary, turning millions
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of people vegan.
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Plant CEO, Anant Jhansi, joins us live from
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London, England, and we are so absolutely honoured
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to have you.
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You're a great sport.
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I'd like to say that I love collaborating
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with you.
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You're always there, you give me advice, you
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help, and you do these great interviews.
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So tell me, why have you decided to
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devote your life to interviewing vegan leaders?
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Yeah, thank you so much, Jane, for having
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me on, and yeah, you're fantastic as well
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in all the work that you're doing.
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I think it's really driven in the fact
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that, I went vegan now nearly six years
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ago, and I decided to try and give
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something back.
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My day job's actually in marketing.
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So I thought, what can I do marketing
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-wise to promote more people, to find companies,
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get inspired, whether that's trying different products, or
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even seeing different documentaries, or even getting funding
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from VC firms?
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So I think that was the passion, and
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that's why I created the show, to try
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and give this space to all these wonderful
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leaders from our community to inspire others.
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That's the main core reason.
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And the actual reason that I've done it
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myself is the passion for animals.
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So a lot of people go vegan for
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the planet, environmental reasons, or animal welfare, or
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their own personal health.
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I come at it from saving as many
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animals as possible.
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That's the reason why I'm doing it.
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And that's exactly why I'm doing it as
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well.
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So you did so many interviews.
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I was just having to just pick a
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couple as a taste.
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I wanna start with a man who may
3:11
be the most effective animal rights, vegan, plant
3:15
-based activist in the history of the world.
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I'm sure there's a lot of competition, but
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this guy has brought us The Cove.
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He won an Oscar.
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He brought us Racing Extinction, Racing to Extinction.
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He brought us The Game Changers, and he
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brought us most recently on Netflix, You Are
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What You Eat, A Twin Experiment.
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Let's listen and talk about his interview on
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the other side.
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After we did a film called The Game
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Changers, people said, oh, well, I got off
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the diet because I'm really, I'm Northern European,
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I need milk, or I'm Asian, I need
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fish.
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And I was curious, I was like, well,
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is there really anything about genetics that predisposes
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somebody to needing a different kind of nutrition?
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And I thought, well, why not use twins,
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identical twins, as kind of guinea pigs for
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a project, and what we did is we
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took 21 sets of twins, actually 22, one
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pair dropped out.
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So 21 sets of twins, and for eight
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weeks, we gave one of them a whole
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foods, plant-based diet, and the other twin
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a healthy, well, a healthy omnivore diet.
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So what if we got people who are
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genetically the same?
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Just like us.
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I was scared to death to tell you
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the truth of what was gonna happen, because
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we didn't know.
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Twins share the same DNA, so we get
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to see if it's about your greens, not
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your genes.
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Vegan twins were biologically younger, they were no
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longer identical, because they had, their DNA was
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changing.
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And that was shocking to everyone.
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When you have the data, the signal that's
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so clear, like you wanna live long, you
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wanna have, live without chronic disease, a vegan
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diet's the way to go.
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So I thought this was such a fascinating
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interview.
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What I loved about it, as a person
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who has done documentaries and produced TV shows,
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was that this incredibly overachieving director, who's won
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an Oscar, revealed that he was scared out
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of his mind when he did the twin
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experiment, because he had no idea what it
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was gonna show.
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Tell us about that.
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Yeah, I was actually quite surprised about that
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too, when he said that.
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You always think that, oh, they might have
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had an agenda in terms of what they
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were trying to get, achieve in terms of
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the results.
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So that was fascinating, where he was equally
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as, wasn't aware where it was gonna go
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to, but they just wanted to put the
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content out there.
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And he's such an amazing guy, to give
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up his time and devote so much of
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his career, when he could have been making
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any other types of documentaries, right?
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To focus his attention on this.
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And I remember from the documentary, the bit
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that he said there in the clip that
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you showed was about how the twins' DNA
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started to change.
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And I remember from the documentary, there was
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a part where at the ends of your
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DNA, you've got the telomeres.
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And the telomeres for the plant-based twin
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started to extend.
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So basically protecting the DNA, increasing your longevity.
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So to expose that, that hadn't been really
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shown before in such a short space of
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time, shows really how powerful plants are in
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terms of our diet and lifestyle, especially in
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relation to longevity.
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And also at the end of the discussion,
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I said, okay, what are you doing next?
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And he goes, well, I've got so many
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projects.
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I've got like six on the go.
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And it was quite amazing to see that
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he had so many other projects that he's
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working on.
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And one thing that was quite interesting for
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me is how he has now been looking
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into animals and their behaviour in terms of
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communication and using basically AI to analyse that
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behaviour.
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And so one of his films that he's
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working on next will be looking into that
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intersection between understanding animals by using AI and
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seeing how they're communicating to each other.
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So that's gonna be amazing, I'm sure, as
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well as his other documentaries that he's working
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on.
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And tell me how you pronounce his name
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because it's often mispronounced.
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We're talking about the director, the Oscar-winning
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director of The Cove, of The Game Changers,
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of Racing to Extinction.
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And you are what you eat, a twin
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experiment.
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Right, so it's Louis Fasoyas.
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Fasoyas, Louis Fasoyas, what an incredible activist.
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Really, really great interview.
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Now, you talked about artificial intelligence and we
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know it is changing the landscape.
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There are people who say it's more significant
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than the invention of fire.
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I don't know about that, but I know
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that every time I go online, I'm being
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invited now to use artificial intelligence.
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And so you interviewed Sam Tucker, who is
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the head of OpenPAWS.
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And he is very worried that artificial intelligence
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could basically compound some of the worst influences
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and instincts that humans have to treat animals
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as mere commodities and even expand the whole
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notion of animals as products.
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I wanna hear what he has to say
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on your Plant CEO podcast and then talk
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about this.
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The potential for AI is so infinite that
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it's hard for people to grasp concretely, like
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where do we actually apply this within our
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current organisation?
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Because the technology is so powerful and there's
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so many things you can do with it
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that it's like, where do you even start?
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The most dangerous situation I could think of
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would be a system that thinks that it's
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okay to discriminate against and to harm less
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intelligent species.
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And sadly, that's exactly what we're training into
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AI at the moment.
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Not only are we not taking any steps
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to actively address it, like we have with
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a lot of human bias in AI against
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particular groups of people, but we're actually continuing
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to embed more and more of it.
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And so I think that if we want
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to have the best possible chance of having
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a super intelligent AI that treats us well,
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we have to actually be an example for
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how we treat less intelligent species or less
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powerful species.
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In a way, we're not at the moment
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at all, right?
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In terms of what we do to animals.
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But we have such a limited number of
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conversations that we're looking at compared to an
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AI that could potentially be looking at all
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of them.
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It can be so hyper-personalised at scale.
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This is terrifying to me.
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Of all the interviews that you've done, this
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one was the most alarming to me.
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I was like, oh my God, they're going
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to just make it more efficient in the
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way that we institutionally torture animals with these
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massive factory farms, concentrated animal feeding operations.
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But there's also a plus, which we're gonna
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get to in a second.
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But what were your thoughts as you were
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hearing that?
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It was alarm bells were going off for
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me.
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Yeah, I think the main thing is that
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these AI systems are all using a form
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of training models.
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So whatever input they're getting, and I guess
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these AI companies, OpenAI, Google, Gemini are pulling
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in these massive sources of data that's available
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on the internet.
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And if that data has shown animals to
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be in a negative light in the way
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that we're basically abusing them for either their
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flesh, their skin, or their byproducts, that's gonna
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be reflective inside the responses the AI then
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gives.
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And one worry area for me is like,
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okay, so as an industry, in two sides,
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there would be the meat and the dairy
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industry that will probably be using AI quite
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a lot to experiment their own way.
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But as our industry, the vegan industry, we
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need to ensure that we're on top of
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this.
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So one of his core things is to
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actually go to a vegan charity, for example,
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who are looking to do certain outreach and
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actually use the data that they have to
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put into their own version of an AI.
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So let's look at a different data set
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and let's try and help those organisations come
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up.
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At the same time, he will be having
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conversations with Google, which I know he's had,
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and also with OpenAI to say, okay, can
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we ensure that we're also pulling in this
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level of data so the responses that you
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give back is relevant?
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Now, I did my own experiments actually.
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So I went to all the AI platforms
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and I said, okay, what can an individual
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do to reduce their carbon emissions?
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And each AI would give a different response.
12:49
So, and then I kind of found one,
12:52
which was Antropic and Claude, which did say,
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okay, the biggest thing that you can do
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as an individual is go on a plant
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-based diet.
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And then there'll be other things like, okay,
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insulate your home or drive electric car or
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travel less, those other things.
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But the biggest impact an individual can make
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is to switch their diet.
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It's the easiest thing that we can do.
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If you're lucky and you live in the
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Western world, you'll be having three meals a
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day.
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Let's look at those three meals.
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And if you're eating seven days a week,
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that's 21 meal choices in a week.
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Let's start by each one of those decisions
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that you're making.
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Just go on to a plant-based one
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for one of them.
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You're preaching to this converted person.
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Obviously I've been vegan 28 years, but what
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I'm hearing is we've all got to get
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online and start publishing more articles that tell
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the other side of the story.
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Because we know the mainstream media doesn't tell
13:53
the animal side of the story because look
13:55
at the advertisers, meat, dairy, and pharmaceuticals.
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So everybody, you need to get online and
14:02
get more vegan content out there.
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And we're certainly doing that.
14:06
We got a caller, Sarah in Atlanta.
14:08
Your question or thought for Plant CEO and
14:11
not Joshie.
14:14
Hi, my question is there's a lot of
14:17
young millennials that are video content creators.
14:21
They make video games, vegan video games, and
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they're already in that full AI industry.
14:27
And I'm wondering if you're gonna be reaching
14:30
out to them or like finding out how
14:34
to connect with them because I feel like
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there's not a connection because that's why it's
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not progressing faster because the people that are
14:44
doing this already, you don't even know about
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them.
14:46
All the young people that are making these
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video games that are actually saving animals and
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helping animals is my point.
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Maybe you guys could try to somehow collaborate.
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And that's my question is, do you even
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know about these people?
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In particular, there's one girl named Tricia who
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lives in LA now.
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She's a very popular video game creator.
15:07
Thank you.
15:08
Thank you.
15:08
Well, you know, I've never thought about video
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game creators but I know that video games
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are huge.
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And I mean, it's such a massive, massive
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group.
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I also know that there are unfortunately a
15:22
lot of video games that are centred around
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violence, killing not only humans, but other animals.
15:27
And there's even video games that involve farming
15:30
of animals or hunting of animals.
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How can we turn that around?
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So Sarah, yeah.
15:36
Thank you for your question.
15:37
Great question.
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We've got to give them more exposure.
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So I'll be happy to get the person
15:45
that you said if you can share with
15:47
that afterwards, them on the show.
15:50
I know that Redfoo has also been from
15:55
LMFAO.
15:56
He's been creating some content as well.
16:00
I think all types of content, like so
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video games is definitely a key one to
16:06
sort of engage with that audience.
16:08
But I also interviewed somebody and I have
16:12
spoken to people who want to create like
16:13
animated series of their books, for example.
16:17
So I would like to see those sort
16:21
of children's programmes getting into mainstream TV that
16:24
will influence younger viewers to understand about animal
16:28
agriculture and the impact that it's making on
16:31
our planet.
16:33
So yeah, I think both areas we need
16:36
to invest more in.
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If there's people out there just who have
16:40
created a game, do contact me and are
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happy to have a chat and see if
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we can get you on the show.
16:47
I want to talk about you.
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You're a cheerful gentleman living in London and
16:55
yet you've decided to really devote and you're
16:58
a family man, you have daughters, you have
17:01
a wife, but you've decided to devote yourself
17:04
to this.
17:06
Why you?
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Because that's what I always want to find
17:10
out.
17:10
What's the secret sauce that made somebody like
17:14
you, instead of just going out there, making
17:16
money and enjoying your life and spending time
17:19
with your family, you're devoting a considerable percentage
17:22
of your life for no apparent remuneration just
17:27
to get the word out.
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Why?
17:30
It's a great question.
17:34
I think it's in a way, I just
17:37
feel that we need to give the animals
17:41
a voice and nobody else really is.
17:46
So I kind of see it as like
17:47
a, in a way a bit of a
17:49
spiritual mission of mine to help us save
17:55
these animals who are getting slaughtered every day.
17:57
And part of it is to talk about
18:01
the environment.
18:02
Part of it is to talk about the
18:04
science related to your health and also talk
18:09
to activists.
18:11
Something fascinating happened to me where I recently
18:15
joined a firm called Save for the Animals.
18:21
And they have this cube of truth where
18:23
you have a TV screen and you have
18:26
activists in the middle of Leicester Square, probably
18:29
the most busiest part of London.
18:33
And they're showing footage from Dominion.
18:37
And it's all about showing the insides of
18:40
what happens in a factory farm, for example,
18:43
or whether it's dairy or a chicken farm,
18:46
for example.
18:48
And then just seeing people's reaction and some
18:51
people would like, go away and like, I
18:54
don't wanna see it.
18:55
Other people would just sit and just like
18:57
be fascinated and then they'll be prepared to
18:59
have a conversation.
19:01
So I think that's definitely part of it,
19:04
like the activism side.
19:06
But I think the way I do it
19:08
is not necessarily talk about that so much.
19:11
And there's so many brilliant people who are
19:13
doing that.
19:14
What I like to do is have these
19:17
really insightful chats and let people come up
19:23
to their own decision.
19:24
And the same thing happened to me.
19:27
I was brought up a vegetarian and then
19:30
six years ago, after watching those documentaries, like
19:34
the Game Changers, for example, or Cowspiracy and
19:37
What the Health, all these fantastic documentaries led
19:44
me to a decision after I did my
19:46
own research, saying actually the dairy industry is
19:49
the same side of the coin as the
19:51
meat industry.
19:52
So once you start to figure that out,
19:55
and I think really the passion comes, I
19:58
think a lot of people who are sort
20:00
of in this space and more vocal are
20:03
doing it for the animals.
20:05
So they're definitely more into the long-term,
20:09
I would say, in making a change.
20:12
And if nobody else is talking about it,
20:14
why not?
20:14
This is what we need to do.
20:17
And don't get me wrong, I do love
20:19
spending time and I do spend time with
20:21
my family and my girls, but this is
20:24
just another project that I need to devote
20:27
my attention to.
20:28
So yeah.
20:29
And you're doing an incredible job and we're
20:30
very grateful that you can watch his top
20:34
interviews on Unchained TV.
20:36
And I hope you do.
20:37
And also Dominion is on Unchained TV as
20:40
well.
20:40
Now that's a tough one to watch.
20:42
More people have watched even a little part
20:44
of that and gone vegan, saying I can't
20:46
be a part of what's happening to these
20:47
animals.
20:48
We've got more callers.
20:50
Tiffany in Los Angeles, your question or thought
20:52
for Anant Joshi, plant CEO.
20:57
Thank you, Jane, for taking my call and
20:59
thank you, Anit, for all you do.
21:01
I wanted to ask you, what is your
21:03
take on sell meat and cultivated meat?
21:06
Do you think it's an answer or a
21:08
way to the future?
21:09
I see so much mixed information about it.
21:12
Thank you.
21:13
Yeah, I definitely think it's a positive thing
21:17
for the movement because on the pure fact
21:20
that we might not be able to meet
21:24
the demands for the meat industry and meet
21:27
all those people who still don't care or
21:30
love the taste of meat or just don't
21:34
wanna change.
21:35
So the cultivated meat, as they now call
21:38
it, is really an answer to that.
21:42
Me personally, I've never had meat in that
21:46
way.
21:46
So I don't want to, or I don't
21:48
feel a need that I would want to
21:50
have it.
21:51
And other vegans would be in the same
21:54
position where they feel, okay, even taking a
21:57
cell from an animal and then growing that
22:01
cell in a non-harmful way, they wouldn't
22:07
accept it.
22:08
But I'm definitely pro it because I feel
22:11
that we need these innovations happening as well
22:14
as the meat or cultured meat, the other
22:17
side is actually precision fermentation, where there's a
22:22
lot of investment going in that, which is
22:23
basically building the same protein as what you
22:27
get in dairy, which would be things like
22:28
casein.
22:29
And then using those proteins to basically put
22:35
inside ingredients where you're using, say, milk, cheese,
22:40
eggs, all that will get displaced from using
22:44
precision fermentation.
22:45
So both areas of technology, I've had people
22:49
on the show talking about this, I'm definitely
22:51
pro it because I feel that we need
22:53
to, anything we can do to save more
22:56
lives quicker, that is definitely an answer.
23:00
The question is how big they can get
23:03
in terms of scale to replace the amount
23:06
of meat and dairy that's being consumed at
23:09
the moment.
23:09
So I definitely see there's a future in
23:12
cultivated meat.
23:13
And I will say some of the most
23:15
powerful people in the world are starting to
23:17
recognise this.
23:17
Bill Gates has said publicly, we need to
23:19
switch to synthetic meat.
23:21
Jeff Bezos, obviously founder of Amazon, has donated
23:25
something like $100 million to all proteins.
23:29
So people are starting to realise this is
23:32
completely unsustainable.
23:34
We've got two more callers, Lindsay in Tarzana,
23:36
then we'll go to Maggie after that in
23:38
Sacramento.
23:39
Lindsay.
23:40
Yes, back to the AI for a moment.
23:44
It was just very enlightening what you said
23:47
about how basically it's listening to us and
23:51
we have these opportunities.
23:53
I'm a content creator and I get offered
23:55
collabs and every time it's a consumer product,
23:58
I go online and Google it to see
24:00
if it's vegan and cruelty free.
24:02
Well, AI is listening when I do that.
24:04
Every time we go in a restaurant and
24:06
ask what's your vegan options, we are informing
24:09
people.
24:10
So I think it's just a good reminder
24:13
to all of us that are vegan or
24:14
plant-based that we have an opportunity and
24:18
we need to take advantage of it.
24:20
Thank you.
24:21
Absolutely and a very, very good point, Lindsay
24:25
in Tarzana.
24:26
Let's go to Maggie in Sacramento.
24:30
Hi, thank you so much for having me
24:32
and thank you so much for all the
24:34
interesting topics that you actually mentioned here.
24:38
I'm the older generation and I'm not really
24:42
using AI every day.
24:44
And as a vegan, is there someone who
24:46
can advise us what we can do like
24:50
every day with vegans and AI to promote
24:54
less cruelty?
24:56
And is there someone who actually teaches and
25:00
gives like a workshop on how we can
25:02
do it?
25:03
Because actually I couldn't find it anywhere and
25:05
I don't know how to use that.
25:07
And I would love to promote, you know,
25:10
my liberation.
25:12
That is a really good question.
25:15
We keep talking about AI, AI.
25:17
You know, the truth is that we all
25:19
have access to, I have a chat GPT
25:23
and I go in there and I do
25:25
all sorts of things, try to get answers
25:28
to things.
25:29
What can the average person do to utilise
25:33
AI so that every single vegan is inputting
25:36
pro-animal, pro-plant-based content?
25:41
Yeah, I mean, if you're a content creator,
25:44
then obviously putting content out, any form of
25:48
positive content that you're putting out there will
25:51
help whether it's articles, YouTube videos, you know,
25:55
if you're putting audio files, that is one
25:58
thing.
25:58
So like you said before, Jane, about just,
26:01
we need more content being produced.
26:04
The second one I think, Maggie, is really
26:08
about the education part.
26:11
There's lots of content on YouTube in general
26:15
about AI and tutorials, I guess, about how
26:19
to, you say, use the prompts and what
26:23
way you can get the right results that
26:26
you're looking for and how to ask those
26:28
right questions.
26:30
But I think it's a valid point in
26:32
terms of maybe we need something specific about
26:35
- How about this?
26:37
Not to interrupt, but what about just taking
26:39
all the reports that show that plant-based
26:43
is the best way to reduce your greenhouse
26:44
gas emissions footprint and just copying that and
26:48
putting it in chat GPT?
26:50
I would think that if it's an open
26:53
source, right, and it's taking all this information
26:56
in, and believe me, I'm no expert.
26:58
I'm just coming up with this off the
27:00
top of my head because sometimes I'll put
27:03
a report in there seeking information or seeking
27:05
a summary.
27:07
And so if you take all these reports,
27:10
for example, last year, Oxford University did a
27:14
study that showed that the average meat eater
27:17
can reduce their greenhouse gas emissions footprint by
27:20
75% by switching to a plant-based
27:23
diet, 75%.
27:25
If we all did that, we could all
27:27
immediately collectively begin to reduce greenhouse gas emissions
27:32
by 75%.
27:33
That is the solution to climate change.
27:35
Of course, nobody covered it.
27:37
I didn't see it on CNN.
27:38
I didn't see it on MSNBC.
27:40
It was in the New York Times and
27:41
that's it.
27:42
And shame on mainstream media not covering solutions.
27:46
They love to stick with what I call
27:47
catastrophe porn.
27:49
Oh, the fires and the floods and the
27:51
people, all these terrible things happening.
27:54
And my heart goes out to them.
27:55
But then when a solution shows up, you
27:58
don't cover it.
28:00
So I would say, Maggie, start downloading those
28:04
reports.
28:05
Start downloading those news articles.
28:08
Every single positive thing about veganism, I would
28:11
just cut and paste it and put it
28:13
in chat GPT.
28:15
Now, Anat, come back and correct me and
28:18
say, Jane, you're absolutely wrong.
28:20
But until I hear further, if it takes
28:22
in information, let's give it all the information
28:26
we need to give it.
28:27
And I'd love to ask Sam Tucker if
28:29
that is effective and we will get back
28:32
to you.
28:32
This is an ongoing thing.
28:34
Keep watching Unchained TV.
28:36
And we will stay on top of that
28:40
whole issue and get back to you on
28:42
that, Maggie and our viewers.
28:44
Because wouldn't it be great to have a
28:45
peaceful army of vegans inputting good information into
28:50
these artificial intelligence vehicles?
28:57
We've got another caller, Christina in Los Angeles.
29:00
Your question or thought for Plant CEO.
29:04
Hi, thank you.
29:06
So I just wanted to share that recently,
29:09
I was with a small group of folks
29:10
who went to the Hollywood Climate Conference out
29:16
here in Beverly Hills.
29:18
And we have signs that said, normalise veganism,
29:22
put the topic, put vegan characters in movies,
29:26
scripts, TV shows, commercials, all of that.
29:29
And surprisingly, the few folks that I was
29:32
able to stop did say that they were
29:35
all vegan.
29:36
And this climate convention served all vegan food.
29:41
So I guess my question is to all
29:43
of you and to Jane and to our
29:45
esteemed speaker today, I feel like the climate
29:48
community activists, environmentalists is a pretty good avenue
29:53
to go through because they are forced to
29:56
make that connection between veganism and climate.
30:01
And then of course to animal issues and
30:04
human health issues.
30:05
And how do we make more of an
30:07
inroad into the whole climate community?
30:11
I thank you, Christina for that question.
30:14
And since you said that I could answer
30:16
it too, I will, I think we're making
30:19
progress on that front.
30:20
Having been vegan 28 years and having gone
30:24
to so-called environmental events that are serving
30:26
and conservation events that are serving meat and
30:30
being disgusted because it's like serving coal at
30:34
an end.
30:35
I mean, it's just not smart.
30:39
It's hypocritical.
30:40
But I'm starting to see a lot of
30:44
environmental organisations changing.
30:46
And I went to the Badass Green Awards,
30:49
all vegan.
30:50
And there were some of the top leaders
30:52
in California government there.
30:54
And everything was 100% plant-based and
30:57
I asked around.
30:59
And apparently somebody who was part of the
31:02
organisation just made a point of speaking to
31:06
the heads of the group a few years
31:08
ago, a couple of years ago and saying,
31:09
hey, and they listened and kudos to them.
31:14
And we were recently at the Hollywood Climate
31:17
Summit that was also vegan and kudos to
31:20
them.
31:21
But I will say, and I'm not gonna
31:23
name names here.
31:23
There are some other so-called environmental groups
31:26
that I've been a part of where, and
31:30
sometimes it's a generational thing.
31:32
Some people are like, no, we're gonna serve
31:36
at our event what we think people wanna
31:38
eat so we can get people there.
31:39
And I'm like, that's not the point.
31:41
So where are we with environmental groups getting
31:45
the message?
31:46
Because I've had run-ins with years, I'd
31:50
say six years ago, I had run-ins
31:51
with a couple of environmental groups where they
31:54
didn't wanna talk about it at all.
31:56
And they were kind of like buzz off.
32:00
And in fact, a very famous person at
32:03
a Fire Drills Friday event told me, you
32:07
be quiet.
32:08
When I said, and animal agriculture even got
32:12
written up in a newspaper.
32:14
Again, I'm not gonna name names, but I've
32:16
had run-ins with so-called environmentalists.
32:19
I see it getting better.
32:20
What do you see?
32:22
I see it getting better, but I agree
32:25
with you that there's some of the big
32:26
organisations, especially like the COP28, for example, of
32:31
the world where they have a huge convention
32:33
of so many people attending, still serving meat
32:37
and dairy.
32:37
They have some options.
32:40
I would love for them to have plant
32:42
-based food as a default.
32:45
I mean, how can you be a climate
32:47
activist and still be serving steak or fish,
32:53
for example?
32:54
So it's just insane to me, like they
32:57
haven't quite made that connection.
33:00
And I'm happy to hear, Christina, that if
33:04
this climate conference in Hollywood was all plant
33:10
-based, but in other parts of the world,
33:12
doesn't all other cities, they still haven't made
33:15
that connection strong enough.
33:17
And again, it comes back to the point
33:18
that we've been making here, both Jane and
33:21
I, is that we need to have more
33:23
coverage about this.
33:24
We need more documentaries produced about this.
33:26
We need more coverage.
33:28
And we need, especially the climate activists, to
33:31
know about this.
33:33
So yeah, we still need to do a
33:36
lot better job on it.
33:38
And one thing just- I have a
33:40
New York Times article from last year up.
33:44
Save the planet, put down that hamburger.
33:46
Researchers examined the diets of 55,500 people
33:49
and found that vegans are responsible for 75
33:52
% less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters.
33:56
Now this was in the New York Times.
33:58
So all those important people who go to
34:00
COP28, I mean, they probably read the New
34:04
York Times.
34:04
They certainly should.
34:06
It is the paper of record.
34:07
It is the most important journalistic publication in
34:11
the world.
34:12
And it's saying it right there, flat out.
34:15
So you kind of would have to live
34:18
with your head in the sand not to
34:20
know this at this point.
34:22
To me, what I see is, I'll just
34:25
call it the way I see it.
34:27
Arrogance, an unwillingness to change, and wilful blindness
34:33
and hypocrisy.
34:36
Yeah.
34:37
One other important thing is, when it comes
34:40
to investment, the plant-based industry went through
34:45
a bit of a downturn in terms of
34:48
VCs and investors looking to invest into plant
34:52
-based companies.
34:53
Another avenue could be, is that we should
34:58
be talking to these climate firms, these VC
35:02
firms that are predominantly tasked with IP money,
35:07
investors' money to make a change.
35:10
And therefore they should be investing more on
35:13
plant-based companies.
35:14
So this is potentially another angle that vegan
35:18
startups or plant-based food startups can seek
35:22
money is by going directly to those climate
35:25
VCs as well as the plant-based VCs
35:28
as well.
35:29
And what about the government?
35:31
I mean, that's, you know, the really big
35:36
story is that right now here in the
35:38
United States, the farm bill is being debated.
35:42
It will determine US government policy toward agriculture,
35:46
including animal agriculture for the next five years.
35:50
And of course, they're trying to undo what
35:52
we did here in California with Prop 12,
35:55
which says that pigs from gestation crates, these
36:00
are crates the size of an animal's body.
36:02
They are never able to turn around or
36:05
even scratch themselves.
36:06
They go mad and they break their teeth
36:09
on the bars.
36:10
It's a torture device, plain and simple.
36:13
And this kind of confinement is extreme confinement.
36:17
Pigs are the fifth smartest animal, smarter than
36:21
dogs.
36:21
So the people of California voted to ban
36:24
any products that come from pigs who are
36:26
kept in these crates.
36:27
And Prop 12, as it is known, went
36:30
all the way up to the US Supreme
36:32
Court.
36:32
The US Supreme Court upheld Prop 12 and
36:35
still the meat industry, as the farm bill
36:40
is being debated, is still trying to insert
36:42
language to undo what the people of California,
36:46
which is the fifth largest economy in the
36:48
world and supposedly about to become the fourth
36:50
largest economy in the world, said very clearly,
36:54
we do not condone this kind of cruelty.
36:57
And so I can show you, because we've
36:59
interviewed various people protesting against this, and there
37:06
are so many people who are literally getting
37:10
arrested trying to speak to our representatives to
37:13
say, if you continue massive subsidies for animal
37:17
agriculture for the next five years, you are
37:19
going to doom us to a climate apocalypse.
37:23
We are paying millions of dollars to bail
37:26
out the chicken and egg industry, a $276
37:30
billion industry.
37:33
Why are hardworking Americans paid to bail out
37:38
this industry?
37:39
It is absurd and immoral.
37:41
You have betrayed hardworking constituents in America.
37:46
It's time for a plant-based pay-as
37:48
-you-go future.
37:51
The committee will be in order.
37:56
The committee will be in order.
37:58
The committee will stand in recess until the
38:01
police can restore order.
38:05
That just happened recently.
38:08
We interviewed the gentleman there who was arrested,
38:10
Robert Grillo, the head of Free From Harm,
38:13
and he is, you know, look, prior to
38:17
doing anything like that, like non-violently disrupting
38:20
a congressional hearing, thousands of letters have been
38:23
written.
38:24
But these folks are supposed to represent us.
38:27
They're not supposed to represent the meat industry
38:30
and the 0.1% that are billionaires.
38:34
And in fact, a lot of the meat
38:36
industry isn't even United States.
38:38
The biggest pork producer in the world, Smithfield,
38:41
is a Chinese-owned company.
38:44
I mean, what?
38:46
Meanwhile, we are spending tax dollars trying to
38:49
fight climate change when the meat industry is
38:53
a huge, if not the leading driver of
38:57
climate change, and not us.
39:00
Yeah, the governments have to be tackled from
39:03
a lobbyist point of view, obviously.
39:07
And we need groups in each country to
39:12
take charge on this.
39:14
And more needs to be done.
39:16
I mean, the meat industry is so powerful
39:19
in terms of the billions of dollars that
39:22
it makes every year, that they are putting
39:27
their efforts to do the same with the
39:30
governments.
39:30
And we need to sort of fight back
39:33
in some ways to do this.
39:35
But the message obviously needs to go to
39:38
them.
39:39
But unfortunately, not all governments in the world
39:43
today are very moral, I would say.
39:47
A lot of them can be corrupt, especially
39:51
when there's money involved, whether it's coming from
39:56
corporation tax from these large companies that are
39:59
paying for different initiatives within the governments.
40:04
The main thing is that the governments actually
40:07
need to come back to science and actually
40:10
look at what the cause is for climate
40:13
change.
40:14
And once they start to realise that, a
40:17
lot of work can be done.
40:19
And there is countries now in Netherlands, for
40:24
example, have started to make some changes.
40:28
Also putting dietary guidelines like in Canada, that's
40:32
also been done where they're pushing forward for
40:35
plant-based diets.
40:38
But that needs to be done in every
40:39
country, right?
40:40
So as well as the lobbyist group, that's
40:44
the key thing because also one part is
40:49
that we just don't have enough people.
40:52
We don't have the power of people as
40:55
much as the meat and dairy industry has
40:57
to throw at the governments.
40:59
Well, I wanna challenge that for a second
41:02
because somebody I admire a lot said recently,
41:07
Wayne Chung, a former constitutional law professor.
41:11
And he's been arrested many times.
41:14
He's considered the leader of the open rescue
41:16
movement.
41:17
They go in, they do undercover investigations, they
41:20
show the horrors and then they tell prosecutors
41:22
prosecute.
41:23
The prosecutors say no and often arrest them
41:26
for going in and taking a couple of
41:30
animals out of a ginormous factory farm who
41:34
were sick while documenting and usually live streaming
41:39
everything they're doing.
41:41
In fact, the only reason that they even
41:43
find out that these so-called crimes are
41:45
occurring is that the people who are doing
41:48
it show it to the world.
41:50
And he said, if every single vegan turned
41:53
into an animal activist, we could achieve animal
41:55
liberation tomorrow.
41:57
So how do we get vegans activated?
42:01
You have a lady who just said, how
42:02
do we use AI?
42:04
Okay, Maggie in Sacramento, how can we use
42:06
AI?
42:07
Imagine if every vegan just got online and
42:11
we figured out an intelligence strategy for the
42:13
average vegan to use artificial intelligence to input
42:16
into the system all the important things about
42:20
the connection between animal agriculture and habitat destruction,
42:24
wildlife extinction, human world hunger, preventable lifestyle diseases,
42:28
pandemics, pandemics, et cetera, et cetera.
42:33
That I think we do have enough, but
42:38
we've got to get everybody to get activated.
42:42
Yeah, I think we should, obviously as a
42:45
community, I guess not all vegans want to
42:49
be activists.
42:50
That's the thing.
42:51
And maybe vegans are doing it for their
42:53
own reasons.
42:54
Maybe it's personal health.
42:57
If they're likely to be a lot younger
43:00
millennials, they're probably doing it for climate change
43:05
or even for the animals.
43:07
But some people as they get older might
43:09
have certain diseases related to their diet and
43:14
they've turned, but not necessarily, but a lot
43:17
of people like, it's quite interesting.
43:18
I was speaking to somebody earlier today about
43:21
new people who are coming into veganism in
43:24
London.
43:25
And a lot of them are by themselves.
43:28
Well, he froze a little bit and that
43:30
gives me my opportunity to just tell you
43:34
for a second about Unchained TV.
43:38
We are, and it's right behind me, the
43:40
world's only vegan streaming television network.
43:43
So this is happening live.
43:46
If I click that, you'll see this interview.
43:48
And we have about 2000 documentaries, cooking shows,
43:54
talks, interviews, news shows, biographies, nature, wildlife, everything
44:00
from weight loss to companion animal dog training
44:05
to hardcore vegan documentaries and animal rights documentaries.
44:10
And so what you can do is download
44:12
Unchained TV for free on your phone.
44:15
I mean, literally you just go to your
44:17
app store and put in Unchained TV and
44:19
boom, you have access to all of this
44:22
for free.
44:23
We are a 501C3 nonprofit.
44:26
I don't take a salary.
44:27
We're mostly volunteer run.
44:30
And we're a really fun group.
44:32
We have a lot of fun doing all
44:35
sorts of coverage of activism in and around,
44:40
not only New York and Los Angeles, but
44:42
all across the world.
44:43
So it's a vegan Netflix.
44:46
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
44:47
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44:49
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44:51
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44:52
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44:53
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44:56
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44:57
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44:59
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45:02
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45:04
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45:06
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45:07
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45:08
Unchained, baby, yay!
45:11
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45:15
And you can download Unchained TV.
45:17
As I say, it's very easy.
45:19
You literally go to your app store on
45:21
your phone, or you can go to unchainedtv
45:24
.com, or you can go on your television.
45:27
It's on all Samsung TVs.
45:28
I got a Samsung TV behind me.
45:30
And any TV, if you have an Amazon
45:32
Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an Apple
45:34
TV device, and it's 100% free.
45:37
And the best thing about it is you
45:38
can actually text videos.
45:41
So let's say you wanna text this video
45:44
to a friend who's interested in artificial intelligence
45:46
or anything we're discussing.
45:49
You just hit send, and you can send
45:51
it right to them.
45:52
So I hope you download it.
45:54
Uh-oh, I just activated one of our
45:56
videos.
45:57
All right, we're gonna get back now to
45:59
Anant.
46:00
We have one more clip to play, and
46:03
I would love to get to this because
46:05
this person is incredibly influential in our movement
46:13
on the business side of the plant-based
46:17
space.
46:17
I'm talking about Matthew Glover.
46:19
It's a David and Goliath type of scenario
46:23
where you've got this huge meat industry, this
46:27
animal industrial complex with thousands of lobbyists and
46:31
lots of money to be able to create
46:34
doubt.
46:35
And they've done a great job over the
46:37
last couple of years in creating doubt about
46:40
meat alternatives.
46:42
I keep thinking, what is our slingshot?
46:45
What is that tool that's gonna beat the
46:48
Goliath?
46:49
I feel like the stone is truth.
46:52
We have truth on our side, but what
46:53
I don't know is what is the weapon,
46:55
what is the tool that's gonna deliver that
46:57
truth?
46:58
I'd never heard of Topham Town either, being
47:01
honest with you, Anant, but we've acquired the
47:03
business.
47:04
It has two facilities, is massive.
47:06
I mean, I got my 10,000 steps
47:08
in just having a tour around the factory.
47:10
It's just to give you an idea on
47:12
the scale.
47:13
It's got warehousing with up to 5,000
47:16
pallets.
47:17
It's got huge lines.
47:18
Over the years, this business has invested tens
47:21
of millions in machinery and in equipment.
47:24
As far as I'm aware, it's the biggest
47:26
plant-based factory in Europe, possibly the world.
47:30
Wow.
47:31
Well, he is just an extraordinary man.
47:33
And by the way, co-founder of the
47:34
January Million Dollar Vegan.
47:37
So many things, we could be here all
47:38
day, but he is a businessman.
47:41
So where is plant-based business today?
47:45
Yeah, so it was really happy to hear
47:48
the acquisition that Matthew Glover and his team
47:52
at the Vegan Food Group made with Tofu
47:56
Town, which is a big independent family-run
48:00
producer of tofu and manufacturing.
48:03
And they bought this facility.
48:06
And as the Vegan Food Group, they also
48:09
own a number of other brands like the
48:14
vegan fried chicken, for example, is one, but
48:17
they've also invested in other companies through VegCapital.
48:24
So he's actively in this space.
48:27
They also bought a UK-based plant-based
48:29
company called Meatless Farms.
48:32
So yeah, I mean, it's gonna be exciting
48:34
to see how they effectively use that factory,
48:38
not only just to make tofu in the
48:43
German market and all over Europe, but also
48:45
use it to help the companies that they
48:49
acquire get their products being manufactured there and
48:54
going into mainland Europe, for example.
48:56
So I think that's really exciting that they've
48:59
acquired that big business.
49:01
And as you know, as well as tofu
49:05
and a lot of alternative proteins are being
49:09
looked at, and that's where the investment is
49:12
happening.
49:13
And also around, I would say, clean label
49:15
foods and clean label products.
49:18
So there's definitely that drive of less ingredients,
49:24
even like for today, for example, me and
49:27
my wife, we went on a, we had
49:29
two meals that were raw vegan.
49:31
So we wanna experiment with having raw vegan
49:35
diet as well.
49:36
So, and, but there's space.
49:38
There's space to get these plant-based alternatives,
49:42
whether you're vegan, whether you're flexitarian, whether you're
49:45
open omnivore.
49:47
You know, that's a new term that I
49:49
heard.
49:50
So all these foods are gonna be far
49:53
healthier than the meat equivalents that they are.
49:59
Absolutely.
50:00
And people often talk about processed, and I
50:04
urge all vegans, anybody watching, do not repeat
50:07
meat industry talking points.
50:09
They love to talk about how vegan food
50:12
is processed or even ultra processed.
50:15
Now, let me tell you that the meat
50:17
industry, according to the Guardian newspaper, has a
50:21
war room the size of Fox News and
50:22
a little bit of the Pentagon in Denver,
50:25
Colorado, where it's manned 24 hours a day,
50:28
and they send out negative stories, allegedly purportedly
50:32
about the, about vegan products, denouncing them as
50:38
processed and ultra processed.
50:40
Now, let me say a couple of things
50:41
about this.
50:42
First of all, you should read, and I
50:44
recently interviewed Robbie Lockey, the co-founder of
50:47
Plant-Based News, who has now a group
50:50
called the Freedom Food Alliance.
50:51
He just issued a 150-page report on
50:55
this.
50:56
So you can go to freedomfoodalliance.org and
50:58
read this report, because it's really terrifying.
51:02
They actually have something called a Masters of
51:05
Beef Advocacy, and they're training all these social
51:08
media activists to go out there and promote
51:11
a meat diet.
51:13
So we have to counteract that, obviously, and
51:16
frankly, that's why I started Unchained TV.
51:18
I was in the mainstream media for more
51:20
than 30 years.
51:21
I worked at CNN.
51:22
I had my own show on CNN.
51:24
I worked at Disney.
51:26
I was a local news anchor in New
51:27
York City and in Los Angeles.
51:29
I've worked at all the big, a lot
51:31
of the big companies, CBS, Disney, CNN.
51:35
I've been behind the curtain.
51:37
And, you know, generally TV is most, well,
51:42
who keeps the lights on?
51:43
The advertisers.
51:44
And who are the advertisers?
51:45
Meat, dairy, and pharmaceuticals, fast food and pharmaceuticals.
51:51
So we have to take it upon ourselves.
51:54
If you look at any social justice movements,
51:57
even in like the 19th century, people are,
51:59
you know, handing out leaflets in the dark
52:02
of night.
52:03
Well, luckily we have social media, but I
52:05
would urge everybody, everybody to get active, to
52:10
get really, really active.
52:12
So we only have about two minutes.
52:14
I want to get your final thoughts.
52:18
Where are we as a movement?
52:20
In a minute, Anant Joshi, plant CEO.
52:24
Yeah, I think we just need more people
52:27
to join the movement.
52:29
And like looking at the UK market, there's
52:31
now about 2.5 million people, which is
52:35
up from about 1.1 million from 2023
52:38
to 2024, which is a great sign.
52:42
Nearly 5% of the population here in
52:45
the UK are vegan, but we need more,
52:48
right?
52:48
We need more activism being done, like you
52:51
said, like for the people who wanna do
52:54
it, let's encourage this more content to be
52:57
produced.
52:58
And there was some comments about earlier on
53:02
the show about some game designers.
53:07
We need those games to be put in
53:10
the hands of users.
53:11
So we need to build up the awareness,
53:13
but I do take the point about the
53:14
AI education.
53:15
And I think I'm gonna talk to Sam
53:18
and see if we can do some sessions
53:19
about that as well as you, Jane, maybe
53:21
we can put that together.
53:23
But there's a lot more work that needs
53:25
to be done.
53:25
And we obviously need to speak up for
53:27
the animals that don't have a voice.
53:29
So that's our mission here.
53:32
Yeah, because that could be fun.
53:34
I know there are a lot of people
53:35
who don't like to protest.
53:36
Okay, they don't like to march around.
53:38
I happen to enjoy it, but a lot
53:39
of people don't.
53:41
But that's something they could do.
53:42
If it turns out that we could just
53:43
be inputting this information into chat GPT or
53:47
whatever, that's something people could do from their
53:49
own home.
53:50
And we could do it as a group.
53:51
We could start a Facebook group and we
53:53
could trade ideas.
53:55
So please check that out.
53:57
I am really, really so excited to collaborate
54:01
with you.
54:02
I wanna say that we need to have
54:06
like 20,000 plant CEOs.
54:10
So keep churning out that content.
54:12
Please talking to all, keep talking to all
54:15
these movers and shakers in the industry who
54:17
have done so much and bringing us these
54:20
incredible interviews.
54:21
We're very happy to have you.
54:23
And for all of you watching, please download
54:26
Unchained TV.
54:28
We are a 501C3 nonprofit.
54:30
You can also donate to us.
54:32
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54:35
participation.
54:36
This episode was brought to you by Unchained
54:39
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54:40
Unchained TV is a nonprofit organisation producing plant
54:43
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54:56
That's unchainedtv.com.
55:00
Thank you so much for joining us.
55:02
And we will see you next time here
55:04
on Unchained TV.