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Season 1_ Sidebar 14 · NO FILTER

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to this week's Proof Sidebar. I'm here
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: with Kevin Fitzpatrick and just then to Davis to discuss
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: episode fifteen of our series on the Case of Lee,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Clark and Caine's story. So two weeks ago, now three
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: weeks ago, time kind of blurs together. We made our
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: most recent and perhaps final for a while trip to Rome, Georgia.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: It hadn't been a planned trip, but after we talked
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: to the families of Brian Bowling and Lee's father and
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: they had wanted to meet each other, we decided to
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: arrange to travel back to Rome and to be there
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: for it.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I have to say when we first interviewed Michael, I
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: don't know if you remember me saying this to you guys,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: but I felt like Michael and Glenn should meet and
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: that I could see it unfolding that way.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: You did, you said exactly that.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So when when Michael actually did reach out and
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: express interest in meeting Glenn, I was really really happy
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: about that. And then soon after that, Amanda sent Glenn
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: a message. So it was not anything that we encouraged
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: them to do or told them to do. It was
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: something that they they they did on their own.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: And it's not something I would expect to happen either.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I say that so from the very first time I
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: met Brian's family, it was obvious to me that they
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: were very interested in finding out what had happened to Brian.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: They thought that Lee and Kane mc guilty, but they
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: knew their stuff. They didn't know, and you could tell
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: they had a genuine willingness and desire to find out
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: exactly what occurred, even at the risk of potentially finding
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: out information that they didn't expect or want.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: A lot of courage to open those wounds again and
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: go down the path when you already thought you had
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: the answers.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: It does, and I remember thinking that I could see them,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: maybe a one day far in the future, perhaps revisiting
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: their opinions on the case. It wouldn't have crossed my
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: mind that over the course of the season of our
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: show that they would, because it's such a difficult journey
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: for families to go through, and nothing that I ever
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: expect from anyone, because it's such an emotionally difficult and
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: trying experience to go through.
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: Well, I know that Amanda, when we interviewed her and
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Kenneth and say December they were both very convinced, and
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: certainly Amanda was that both Lee and Kane were there
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: and both of them were responsible. I mean, there was
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: no sort of hesitation in her mind or in her
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: tone at that moment. And so to see that that
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: transformation and listening to the podcast is extraordinary.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: And even during the season, it's it was clear that
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: messages exchange that they still believed they were guilty.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: I think they they did believe that, but they also,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: like you said, Susan, they had a lot of questions.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And I think it was both Michael and Amanda who
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: said early on that if it was Kin who did
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: this and it was intentional, he couldn't have done it
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: by himself. Lee had to have been there, right. So
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: again it was that sort of making sense of something
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: that doesn't make sense.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Trying to fit the pieces they have together right, and
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: they thought they mostly fit, but they were They've always
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: been aware that, you know, those pieces aren't actually matching
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: up quite the way they're supposed to. But yeah, so
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: we were there for the meeting. I've certainly never experienceding
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: like that in all the cases I've worked on, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: for me, one of the more heartbreaking moments was when
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Michael express his hope that something can be done quickly
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: now to help lean Kine and knowing that that's not
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: how any of this works.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think one of the things that stood out
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: to me from the meeting was you had these three
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: people who have just been torn apart for decades by
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: this case and by this tragedy, and Michael and Amanda
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: have They've lost Brian and there's been so much pain
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: in their family because of that. Glenn's been suffering through
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: all of this, and I think that there was a
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: genuine moment of sort of love and hope between them
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: that maybe between the three of them they can work
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: together and try and fix this, you know. I think
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: that's what Michael was saying. And I think there's this
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: this sort of desperation for all of them to try
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: and put people's lives back together af through decades of
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: them being sort of lost.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are absolutely things that can be done
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: and are being done, but it can be a really
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: slow progression.
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's going to take them a while. I mean,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: and as you say, I don't think that they realize that.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, in their minds, they understand that nobody's at
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: fault here, and they want to get these guys out
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: of jail, and they want to put Glenn's pain to rest.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: I mean that was one of the most sort of
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: telling moments of it all. I mean, Michael really expressing
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: the guilt that they feel. And they had nothing to
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: do with it, but they feel this guilt and I
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: think they want to They want to ease Violin's pain.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: They want to make this right so that Brian's death
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: isn't somehow associated with discontinuing tragedy. And it's just not
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: going to happen quickly. They can't just pick up the
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: phone and call someone and say, please let these guys
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: out and make this go away.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Technically, the DA could go a long ways to speeding
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: things along, So there's always that call it a hope,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: but the system always protects itself In trying to decide
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: what's harder to convince the family of a victim or
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: to convince the system. I'm I would have said before
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: it's probably about equal, but actually no, it's clearly harder
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: to convince the system that it made a mistake than
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: it is to convince the families of victims.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Overall, what kind of impacts like legally, I mean it's
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: hard to gauge, but you know of Saint Michael and
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Amanda writing letters to parle boards or reaching out to
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: the DA.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how it could or would
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: have an effect in terms of the legal system in
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: terms of like the either AG's office or the DA
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: and any claims that Cain or Lee might have to
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: raise in court, but it absolutely could make a difference
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: for the parole board. So if and whenever Lee and
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Kine are up for parole again, it sounds like Brian's
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: family wants to write letters of support for them, and
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: that could very much to go a long ways towards
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: helping them get parole, especial because they're both claiming innocence
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and it's just so hard to get parole in that circumstance.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Having the victim's family on board with it would be
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: a pretty huge deal, I think.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, those are the people that should want
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: them in jail the most, and they want them out.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We also heard this episode from someone I wish
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: we'd been able to interview sooner in the season, and
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: that was Matthew Battle, the son of Dallas Battle.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I was surprised actually, when he reached out. He sent
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: us an email saying that he had been listening to
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: the podcast and asked if we could talk. I had
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: no idea what he was going to say to us
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: or how he felt about it, but certainly agreed to
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: talk to him, and then we were able to meet
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: him when we were down in Rome on this last trip.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had reached out to other members of Dallas
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Battle's family, but not his children, and I wish now
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: i'd thought to do so, but I was surprised. To you,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: I hadn't expected he'd want to talk to us, let
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: alone want to sit down for a recorded interview. And
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: you know, he obviously his children were upset by somebody
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: they've heard in the show, but he also recognized I
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: think that we weren't unable to interview anyone on the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: record who may have had a better impression of his father,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: So that was something that was not available to us
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: in the first place. And he wanted to tell us
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: a different version of his father, the one that he knew,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and to give us whatever information he had about the case,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: So that he was upfront saying I don't know much
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: about it, but if I know something I'll tell you.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he and Kin and Lee were all
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: they're all about the same age.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: He didn't know Lee, but he did no Kaine.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: He did know Kin, but you know, being the same age,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: he wouldn't have known much about the case, I don't think,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: other than maybe what his dad had told him or
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: what he had heard, you know, at church or whatever. So, yeah,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: he didn't have a lot of information he could provide
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: about some of the questions we have about the case
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: and the investigation of the case. But I think what
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: he did say was important, you know, if you take
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: him for his word and he says, David Stewart wants
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: to talk to us, but he can't. I would love
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: to talk to David Stewart, and I hope when the
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: day comes that he can talk to us, that he'll
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: give us a call.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean what he said was consistent with our
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: own experience. No one who works with Floyd County is
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: willing to speak to us who still works for them,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that is.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But I don't know that. I'm not sure that
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: some of the people we spoke to want to talk
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: to us, you know.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh that's true. Yeah, Clary it's not just it's
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: not necessarily that they want to talk to us and can't.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: There are certainly those who are just fine not speaking
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: to us exactly. But matt Battle told us that David Stewart,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: who's a family friend of the you know, is aware
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: of the case, and it sounds like he has in
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: mation of the case that you know here members and
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: would be potentially important to investigation, but is unable to
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: share that with us at this time.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: I thought it was really interesting. I was surprised that
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: he did it.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: You know, there was some chatter on social media about
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: why we included Matthew Battle's interview and whether or not
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: it was the right thing to do, and he was
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: just trying to make his dad look good. And my
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: feeling is that he reached out to us, he had
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: something to say and and we wanted to hear what
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: he had to say. And you know, he of course
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: loved his dad, and by all accounts, his dad loved
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: him and and so I don't regret including the interview.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I think it was the right call.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And I think you know, everyone who's listened to the
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: podcast and has heard us talk about Dallas Battles record,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: you can take that into account when when you listen
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: to what Matthew has to say and draw your own
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: conclusions about.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: It, which Matthew did acknowledge. Just to clarify, he said, yes,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: like my dad made mistakes and his family accepted that
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and forgave him. So he did acknowledge there were some
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: severe errors in his father's conduct at times, but that
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: tystily forgiven him, and that in his mind that it's
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: overshadowed by what Matthew thinks he did right while he's
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: law enforcement. It was interesting to hear though, that his
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: father would routinely go and view autopsies for his homicide cases.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: And I do, I really do believe that battle would
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: have wanted an autopsy here, and that just increased the
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: mystery of what really happened and why there wasn't one
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: or supposedly wasn't one.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: It's so confusing because they testified that there wasn't one,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: so someone would have known. Someone knew whether or not
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: there was an autopsy. Yep.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And if that's the case and someone was not honest
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: under oath, but all big ifs and until we find
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: more documents might stay that way. So well, I'm sure
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: we'll be back in Rome again one day. Just Sindo's
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: favorite bartender was there the Slash trip and I keep
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: waiting for him to listen to the show. Yeah, yeah,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: has he heard the time that you said no one
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: room to pick Manhattan though.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I'm taking that back. I take that back. Yeah, I did.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I heard from the bartender. It turns out he didn't
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: know this, but he has family who is close with
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Glenn and so they've been listening as well. And yeah,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: you know, I've said it from day one that I
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: really like Rome and the people we've met have been very,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: very welcoming and nice, and I've grown very attached to Rome, Georgia,
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: and I hope to be back soon. Yeah.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Well, that's fun on there. I'll be sure to try
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Manhattan and see if your opinion is right or not.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: On Monday will be our final episode for season one
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: of Proof, so be sure to listen to that, and
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: we'll be continuing to do some sidebars with updates about
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: this case and other cases, and hopefully we will be
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: back before too long with us season two.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and final episode on this case for now. I
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: very much hope that Lee and came back in court
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: for the end of the year and we're back to
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: tell you all about it.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll keep everyone updated and I do hope and
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I do believe that they'll be in some progress in
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: the case to bring to the audience and then we'll
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: find out what our story for season two is going
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: to be.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: Until then, thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: episode of Proof sidebar, If you have any questions for
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: future cyber episode, don't forget to send them our way
• 14:01
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• 14:04
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• 14:07
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• 14:09
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• 14:12
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