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Christina Roughan – Designing a Life of Style and Substance · She’s Smart

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Hey, everybody. Welcome to She's Smart. I'm your host, Maria Robotham.
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Each week, we sit down with incredible women to talk about life,
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work, and everything in between.
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Today, I am sitting down with Christina Rowan, the acclaimed interior designer
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and founder of Rowan Interiors, a global design firm.
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Christina's career began in fashion, starting with Ralph Lauren and then Tommy
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Hilfiger, before she transitioned into interiors, where she became known for
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her timeless, sophisticated spaces that blend modern and traditional design with ease.
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Her firm's work has been featured in Architectural Digest, Elle Decor,
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House Beautiful, and more.
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She's earned a reputation for creating homes that are not only beautiful,
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but also deeply personal and livable.
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In our conversation, we dive into her incredible career journey from her early
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days in New York to founding her own firm.
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And we talk about the intersection of fashion and interiors,
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the changing pace of creativity, and how personal style informs the spaces we live in.
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We even discovered that we both used to sing in bands.
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Christina's story is one of artistry, resilience, and reinvention.
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And I think you'll love the wisdom and warmth that she brings to everything
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she touches. So get cozy as we connect, learn, and laugh together on She's Smart.
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So much for joining me today. Really quick, shout out to Good Godfrey.
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The band name came from your house?
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Yes, because they started practicing in our barn.
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And that's how it all happened. My husband got together with Garrett and they
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had been practicing for a while.
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My husband got the two other guys involved. Jesse's always like,
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we need a few more songs, Maria, that we can just,
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when you're around. Like, okay, just... That's totally... I would sing with
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them, too, occasionally.
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It's so fun. It's super fun. The only problem is that I sang in musicals,
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at a stint with a band when I lived in New York City, and I had an audition and all this stuff.
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But I had a coach that was actually working my muscle and my voice.
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Now, after I sing, I can't do it.
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I don't have enough strength because I don't use it enough. I used to be in
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a band in the city, too. Really?
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Yes, we won Battle of the Bands.
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What was that bar on Bleecker Street? Oh, my God. Kenny's Castaways.
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Stop. No, like, it was crazy. I went to a vocal coach.
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Like, all in my 20s, I did this. I always loved to sing, but I never was in
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musicals. I knew I had a good voice, but I can carry a tune.
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I'm not, like, I can't do the high notes. Anyway, I went to this vocal coach.
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She loved what I did. And then she put me on cable network with her.
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I met this woman at our recital who worked for Chris Blackwell,
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founded Island Records.
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She loved music just as much as I did. She was from Brooklyn and really into
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like rap and a lot of the classic rock, but really into like kind of like R&B.
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And I was more like classic rock, you know, like Sarah McLachlan.
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So we came together and I remember I called her and I was like,
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hey, do you want to join a band? We met on Park Avenue South because I lived in the city for 21 years.
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OK, so we played Molly's was our first gig and we did really well.
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And we are the ones who auditioned the band to in Tin Pan Alley.
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Like it was all so fast. Put an ad in the Village Voice.
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Now I'm dating myself. No, but that's how I saw my audition was in the Village
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Voice for this, like, they did mostly jazz music.
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And I'm like, that's where I love jazz.
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If I could be like Elvis Dierald, I would. Oh, see, that's amazing.
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I love all of that. Scatting, I used to do it all the time.
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Okay, wait, keep going with the story. I love it. So anyway,
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we went to the Battle of the Bands. We played there.
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They called us. They said, this was such a great crowd. We want you guys back.
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We have a Battle of the Bands. We're like, sure, we'll do it. We won. I was in shock.
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All of us were in shock. We were young, in our mid-20s. They ended up touring
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us down through Delaware.
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We played The Lion's End, Alice's Underground.
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We played like a bunch of places in Lower East Side. And it was like a rock
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funk. I wrote most of the songs.
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Get out of here. Literally. Like. Do you still write?
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No, I don't really do it anymore. I can sing one or two songs,
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but my voice won't hold up because I don't do it all the time.
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I was going through vocal training.
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It's like a gift to sing, but you got to exercise.
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It's a muscle. And you got to exercise it. If you don't exercise,
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it doesn't work properly. And it gets so strained.
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Because you can't hear yourself with the bands. I have a loud talking voice
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to begin with. Same. Same.
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You should hear my children. Literally in preschool, the teachers were like,
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you know, they are very loud. I'm like, well, if you met my parents,
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you would understand why. I'm Italian.
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My household was loud growing up. Loud. Italian, Irish, and Spanish.
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Yeah, I'm Italian, Irish. The drinks flowed and the yelling and the voices.
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I always joke that I love microphones. I don't necessarily need one because it just carries.
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So when you were living in the city, what were you doing when you were living
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in the city? Were you always in design?
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Always in design. Yeah. From the get go. What drew you to it?
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When I was a young child, like I used to watch TV and like want to take a butter
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knife and kind of smash the cover of the TV and go into it and be on TV with these people.
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I loved glitter and glamour. I loved watching the Fred Astaire ballroom dance dances.
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And I loved watching the woman because they were so beautiful,
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like those those dresses and those costumes. So when you're a little girl and
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you love sparkly things, I've always loved fashion.
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Fashion was, to me, it was the end all, believe all. I mean,
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you asked me anything at that time.
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I was in high school in front of the TV watching Style with Elsa Clinch.
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I was mesmerized. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have to go to Paris.
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I mean, you're talking about a girl from Worcester, Massachusetts.
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I was a huge dreamer. And I thank God I was a huge dreamer or I'd still be in Worcester.
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Not that that's a bad thing because it's not, you know. I just wanted more out of life.
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My dad was an artist who never really fulfilled what I think he could have if
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he stuck with it. And my mother was like, she would sing.
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She always loved to tap dance. She would repeat that over and over and over
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again. And my mother has a really good voice.
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And she tap danced? Oh, yeah. She was on, like, in Massachusetts.
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She was on local TV shows.
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She used to go to dance school with Eddie Mecca, who was, now I'm really dating
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myself. That's all good.
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Laverne and Shirley, Carmine Macusa. One of my favorite shows was Laverne and Shirley.
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Show me, show mazel. I loved it. I grew up with all those shows. Loved that show.
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So that was really fun. I've always loved design. It was in me at a young age.
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When I was in college, I would get Interview Magazine, W Magazine,
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Women's Wear Daily. I would look at the pictures.
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I would look at the models. I would look at the designs.
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You know, it'd be like so mesmerized by Jean-Paul Gaultier and Emmanuel Angaro
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and the way Emmanuel Angaro was able to get those beautiful,
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I'm not even sure what the right terminology is anymore because I forget so much.
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But the accordion pleats that he did in raw silk and it was like a four-ply
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silk. It was just so beautiful.
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And how he got it to stay and move. Yes.
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And how you saw the models walking down the runway and how beautiful they looked
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and all these gowns. To me, it was just art.
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That's what it is. It was like black candy. It was visual. And I wanted to be
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so much a part of that world.
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When you went to college, did you study it or did you just do a general college
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education and then after that go into design?
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I went to Framingham State College in Massachusetts and I studied fashion merchandising. Me too.
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Did you really? Yes, I was at the fashion institute in San Francisco.
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I did merchandise product development.
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It was my favorite. I mean, I was the hardest year because I was interning at
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Jessica McClintock. Oh my gosh, my prom gum.
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Same fabric when I, by the way, all the same fabric. She had the same designs
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and the same fabric when I worked for her.
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I was in San Francisco. That's where we grew up. So that was,
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she was like the person, the end all be all, you know, and we were growing up
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in the eighties with her taffeta dresses. That's all you wanted.
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I got to intern for her when I was at the fashion institute and I was going
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to school and it was nonstop, but I loved every part of it.
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I loved learning about the history. I loved doing all the patterns.
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I couldn't draw to save my life. Still can't. I'm so shocked I passed that class.
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But I loved it. I loved being in it and,
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how intense it was. You were learning what you wanted to, and that's what I
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really liked about it. I couldn't get enough.
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Yeah, it's just such an incredible industry. I was just in Paris,
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and this is my second time there. I went to the Dior Museum.
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It is so inspiring. You look at Christian Dior and the history of how he was
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involved in World War II, helping people, how he made his clothes,
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and what an art form it was.
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No one realizes this, but he died at a very young age, and he didn't reap the
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benefits that they're doing now. Did you see the muslin?
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Yes. I am always mesmerized by muslin and how you could just wear the muslin.
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And the actual design and stitching of it and sewing of a garment gets so lost in so many ways now.
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But when you go back to the Dior's and the couture houses, you could turn it
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inside out and wear the garment.
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You could wear the pattern pieces. You could wear the muslin.
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It's incredible. When I was in France, the first time I went to France,
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I was 18. and I went with Framingham State College.
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Well, actually, I didn't go with Framingham State College. I went with the Paris Fashion Institute.
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I found out about them through Framingham State. And it was students from New
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York, California, all of the United States. I think there was probably 15 of us who went.
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And it was run by two people who
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were very much immersed in the fashion industry. One was an XD or a model.
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And I'm not even sure if the school's around anymore because I know they both have passed on.
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And the other one was a designer. I'm not really quite sure for what house,
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but they just had a plethora of knowledge. So when we were there,
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we went to visit certain houses and we went to visit Yves Saint Laurent's house, which for me was just.
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I was living a dream. We walked in, and I think it was Lulu de la Felice at
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the time, who was his muse.
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They were very close friends. She was showing us one of his couture gowns.
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And she said, couture is exactly what you said.
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It is as beautiful on the inside as it is on the out.
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And the construction is incredible. And what people don't realize about fashion
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is these people, to create a garment, hours and hours and hours from these artisans
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who have been doing this their whole lives. That's all they do.
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Beads on a dress, crystal on a dress, gold on a dress. I mean,
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so if you look at it as an art form, it's like a painter who paints. Yeah.
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It's incredible. And it just gives me the chills talking about it because it's
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so beautiful. What was your first project that you ever worked on? Do you remember?
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Yeah. My first project was, I had moved to New York City at a college.
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We were in the middle of a recession, which I had no idea what that was because I was only 21 years old.
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This is going back to 1992. I was an intern for Ralph Lauren.
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That was my first job. And I was making, I think, like $8 an hour.
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And I just wanted to get into Ralph Lauren because when I interviewed there,
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I was so excited and scared out of my mind. And I remember walking up there.
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650 had just been built. And I remember opening the elevated doors and there
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was an enormous bronze polo player and black watch walls everywhere.
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I went into the reception desk and I felt like I was in a Scottish castle.
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There was mahogany everywhere, the balcony with a black watch plaid all over the walls.
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There were these two women, I still remember their names, who were walking down
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the hall in full riding regalia.
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One of them had a crop under her arm. And I'm like, wow, this is insanity.
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And I'm like in Ralph Lauren's suit, you know, crazy.
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Going to interview. And it was an interview for an intern. And I got the job there.
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And it was basically working for men's design, women's design,
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and creative services, which was interior designs.
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They would bring clothing in, and I would have to.
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Put it into a computer and say
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what kind of sleeve it was. Was it from colonial times? Was it Civil War?
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Did it have a Lego mutton sleeve? Did it have brass buttons?
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Were they engraved? And I knew all this stuff from school.
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So I was like, oh, this is fantastic. It's so much fun.
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And I met my friends to this day there. It was really amazing.
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And from there, I got a job offer in creative services. And that's how I started interior design.
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But in between that time, I was part-time at Ralph Lauren. I was working at
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Macy's as a biotherm girl.
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I was doing costumes for the 13th Street Repertor Theater because I lived in
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a place called the Catherine House, which Nate Berkus just renovated.
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I love him. And when I saw it, I even texted him.
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I didn't text him. I like, you know, IM'd him, whatever you call that.
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And I was like, I used to live there. This is insane.
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Because he was talking about the history. And I know the history really well because I'm part of it.
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Wow. And I came to New York with $500 that I saved up from working as a chambermaid
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and in an antique store down Martha's Vineyard.
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And I knew I was going to move there November 4th. When I was in Paris,
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one of my instructors told me about this place. He said, I think it's run by
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the latest Christian Union.
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And it's for women. You should check it out. This woman from NBC came in.
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And I had done a sketch on the wall. She said, did you do that sketch? I was like, yes, I did.
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She said, what are you doing with it? I said, well, I'm moving to New York. November 4th is my day.
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She goes, where are you living? I'm like, I'm trying to figure this out.
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I know it's a place run by the Ladies' Christian Union. She goes,
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I have a friend who lived there. There's about 10 of them in the city.
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I'm like, I'm looking for the one in the village. Because to me,
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that's where I live. As a creative, I had to be there.
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And she said, oh, yeah, I know one. There's one on 12th Street,
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and then there's one on Gramercy Park.
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So I was like, thank you so much. Like, it was kind of like divine intervention. It really was.
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So I called them, made an appointment, $110 a week. You had a room.
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It was like living in a dormitory. They had two bow parlors,
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just like that show, Bosom Buddies.
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That's where they probably modeled it after.
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So when I had boyfriends, they had to come in, check in at the front desk,
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and they had to go in one of the bow parlors.
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Now, what was great about it is they housed women between the ages of 15 and
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25. A lot of actresses, ballerinas, dancers, writers, designers from all over
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the country, too. One of my really good friends is from London.
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So you really get to know a lot of people.
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What an incredible organization.
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And they serve breakfast and dinner. For $110 a week. Yeah.
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But you're talking, this is 1992. But I mean, imagine if they still had that
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to this day. hey, the people, the women who could come in and get opportunities to be in the city.
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Well, that's why it was so incredible is that it was somewhat affordable for a young person.
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Anyone who's coming from Worcester, Massachusetts by themselves,
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knowing no one, never been in New York City, is obviously quite ambitious, right?
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Yes. So you meet other people just like you.
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It's like an automatic sisterhood. To this day, I'm still really good friends
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with my two roommates who I was there with for a year. And then we moved out together.
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And that's like a stepping stone. You probably live there long you can.
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And then you move on to the next. A thousand percent. Wow.
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And in my transition at Ralph Lauren, I tried to get a full-time job there for
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a while. It didn't happen overnight.
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And I remember when I finally got a full-time job offer there,
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it was left on my answering machine.
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Oh, my gosh. And I came home. my two roommates who were so sweet.
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I walked in and they knew how hard I was trying to get a job and they had champagne
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and they were like, listen to the phone message. And I'm like, what?
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So sweet. Now I think about it. I'm nice for them. And then how long were you at Ralph Lauren?
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I was at Ralph Lauren for a while. I was there for probably like three years.
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Then I got an offer at Tommy Hilfiger.
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I knew at Ralph Lauren, I could only go like a certain, I looked at the women
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who were in high places and there really weren't a lot of them. Okay.
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You know, I'll be perfectly blunt here. I knew I could go a certain amount,
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but to go really where I wanted to, I didn't think.
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I would get there in a time frame that I wanted to.
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Makes sense. So, and I have to say, though, but what I learned at Ralph Lauren,
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it was such an incredible experience. Who I learned from was an incredible experience.
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My years there were just wonderful. I mean, I learned what an artisan was.
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And at that time, it was all about your Rolodex.
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Oh, yeah. All the people you know. All the people you know. That's how you got
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jobs. There were artisans all over New York City, on the Lower East Side,
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on the Upper East Side, down in Chelsea.
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I mean, and they made pieces. That's where I learned about, like,
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Jean-Michel Franck. That's where I learned about Jean-Maurier.
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That's where I got my history in furniture design.
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That's where I got my history and what an Eglomis detail was.
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All these things were really important.
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So when I was recruited to Tommy Hilfiger, I was very young,
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and I opened all Tommy's freestanding stores.
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Oh, my gosh. Yeah. All the interiors you did. I did all the interiors.
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Wow. And I worked with an architect and I was like 25, 26.
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Get out. What was that? Drastically underpaid. Yeah.
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Drastically underpaid. But I learned a lot there, too. I learned more about business.
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And I learned about, it doesn't matter. Like, this is, I think,
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very important, too, for a woman.
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Because it was really a man's world. Especially at that time.
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Even in fashion, it really was a man's world. Yeah, it still is.
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It still is. But in fact, at Tommy, I had a friend of mine who worked for me freelancing.
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I got him a full-time job, and he started making more than me.
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And I told him what to ask for. And when I went in to ask for a raise, it didn't happen.
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Wow. How times have changed. Oh, that's incredible.
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When you were designing the Tommy Hilfiger spaces, each of them were different,
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but they were all pretty similar in how they were designed, right? The interiors?
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Or were you doing different interiors for each patient? One was really customized
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because I was doing all the windows, too.
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Oh, wow. You were designing all the windows. Yes. And all the change outs at that time.
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I remember being there and I worked with Reid Krakow in the creative department.
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And I always loved what Reid was doing because he had great taste.
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I would go in and chat with him for a bit.
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My time at Hilfiger because of him was really fun.
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Tommy was really nice too when I spent time with him, which wasn't a lot,
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but it was nice. At Hilfiger, it was a really interesting experience because
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I was learning a lot, meeting a lot of people.
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The stores were doing really well. Then I transitioned to Reed's department,
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which was like creative services.
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We were styling all the shoots, the launch of Tommy Jean, which was super fun.
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Tommy was like, OK, we need these clothes here, but they're coming in from Asia.
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So we have to get them up to Vermont.
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I had to go to Teterboro, meet them and take all the clothes up to Vermont.
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So for the photo shoot, where was the photo shoot in Vermont?
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Oh, my gosh. It was so long ago. It was around Manchester someplace.
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So pretty up there. And we also shot.
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It was really fun at the time with all these famous people's children.
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So it was like Luke Flynn, Ethan Brown.
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It was Rod Stewart's daughter. It was even Trump's daughter.
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And she was actually super sweet. Very, very nice. She was like 14.
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These are experiences that were really special. Absolutely. You were at Tommy
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Hilfiger. Where did you go from there?
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One day, we get called into the office.
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Tommy had just hired a human resource department. And it was after the menswear show came out.
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And part of Reed's department was doing the menswear show. I wasn't involved with that.
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I was involved with showrooms and rigging the mannequins and stores.
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We all thought we were getting raises because it got such a great review, Women's Wear Daily.
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And when I say we worked hard, we worked hard. I used to say eight to faint.
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When you're opening a store, in terms of merchandising, it was like you'd be
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there at seven. You wouldn't leave sometimes till like one in the morning,
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depending on what you got done, because you had an opening date and you had
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to meet that opening date.
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A woman came in and a man who we'd never seen before and just told us that we were all let go.
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And all of us. Now, our department was small, mind you. There was probably 10 of us at the time.
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At the time. This was the start when people started firing people,
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not because you were doing a bad job, but there was something internal going
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on that we didn't know. It was the start of that whole rollout.
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I was in shock because I'm a girl from Western Massachusetts with an Italian
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mother and an Irish father who was always taught, you work hard,
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you do well, you work hard for a person, you're going to go places,
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you're going to do this, you're going to do that.
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And I always said, I want people working for me like how I was when I was younger. Absolutely.
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Because my heart was so in that job to have this happen. I'm like,
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oh, my gosh, my earth just shattered.
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It was like, wow, this is everything that I believed in when I was in my mid-20s
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had just completely sunk.
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It was a total lie. It's not the way life is.
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What do I do? I have no money. I have minimal savings. When you're living in
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New York and you're not making a bajillion dollars, You're living paycheck to
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paycheck. Paycheck, exactly.
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You know, you have nothing to follow about yourself. I had just booked my first
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vacation in three years to Ireland, like a month later. And I'm thinking to
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myself, all this is running through my head.
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Told us. We went back to our desks. Security, who I was friends with,
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came up and said, you guys have to leave.
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It was a really good friend of mine who I hired.
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I won't say his name just because he was sweet.
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And we left and we get escorted out. The next day I get a call from Tommy's
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assistant, who's so sweet too, saying, Tommy wants to meet with you and so-and-so,
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would you please come back to the office today?
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And I was like, okay, sure. So we got rehired.
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And then the day later, we got refired.
22:32
And when we were in Tommy's office, when we had come back, when he refired us,
22:36
he told us, I've been talking to people and they've been saying that you've
22:40
been saying some really bad things about us. And I was in shock.
22:45
Now, Tommy's sitting in front of me, and I'm with my friend who's totally broken
22:49
right now. He couldn't even speak.
22:51
I'm having one of those experiences where, like, your hearing goes,
22:54
you're going to faint because you can't. It's like almost an out-of-body experience.
22:57
You can't believe what's happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I looked at him,
23:01
and I said, well, that's just not true because it wasn't true.
23:03
I never said anything bad.
23:05
Then he stood up, and he left. He's like, I'm sorry. People are threatening
23:09
me with lawsuits. It was a very weird time.
23:12
So we left, and we moved on. And wow, whoa.
23:16
Yeah, it's incredible. And for my department, there were three people who had
23:20
just gotten hired from Ralph Lauren, maybe like a month prior or five months
23:26
prior, and they doubled their salaries.
23:28
So this is a time where you have young people and this is happening.
23:32
And it's kind of like, whoa, whoa, it's just, wow, is this the way business is?
23:38
Interesting. Cutthroat. Yeah, it was so odd. My old boss called me at Ralph
23:43
Lauren that day. This is how rare life is.
23:47
And said, can you come back to Ralph Lauren? And I said, oh my gosh,
23:52
did you hear? He's like, no, hear what?
23:55
Because in the industry, it's very small. You either worked at Ralph Lauren,
24:00
Calvin Klein, Armani, or Tommy Hilfiger was coming up.
24:03
And at that time, people were kind of still poo-pooing Tommy Hilfiger because
24:07
he wanted to be like Ralph Lauren.
24:09
Clearly, he's grown this incredible business, right?
24:13
And I told him my whole department just got let go. He's like, what? I'm like, yeah.
24:17
And I said, I would love to come back, but I have to be freelance because I
24:20
don't know what I want to do with my life.
24:22
I don't know if I want to keep on doing interior design for stores.
24:25
And he was like, all right, come back. I want you to help me and someone else
24:30
who was dear to me at the time open up and launch Double RL.
24:35
And I was like, I would love to do that.
24:38
Wow. So your story about being let go and then this person calling you without
24:44
knowing, the same thing happened to one of my best friends.
24:48
And it was unreal. The fact that you just said it the exact same way she told
24:53
me the story, I'm like, this happens.
24:56
She was let go from her company. Her old boss calls her and said,
24:59
hey, I'm starting something new.
25:01
I want you to join me. And she goes, did you just hear about our getting let go?
25:05
She was like, no, I just want you back. Like, my friend was like, this is incredible.
25:11
And the gentleman who called me, too, now he's a director.
25:15
And he did The Family Stone.
25:18
He's super talented. That is one of our favorite holiday movies to watch.
25:21
Is it really? Yes, my sister and I, every Christmas.
25:24
He wrote it and directed it. He's pretty brilliant. He wrote The Family Stone.
25:27
That's really fun. That's one of our friends. And he was so kind.
25:29
And I, to this day, I think about the people in my life who have helped me. And he was wonderful.
25:34
It's pretty amazing to have those people. I was in fashion and then I worked
25:39
in finance because I couldn't get a job when I moved to New York City.
25:42
I also felt like I was too big for my britches, which was a problem.
25:44
I felt like I should have been doing something bigger in the fashion industry.
25:47
I had no money when I moved to New York.
25:50
My parents were the same. They're like, here's $500.
25:52
I lived on my best friend's couch for $500.
25:56
Two or three weeks, her poor roommates were like, you have to get out. Like, it's too much.
26:03
And I just went to a temp agency and was like, okay. I temped two for a while.
26:07
Right? Any job I could get. Yeah. I temped it like, is it CSI?
26:10
What is the name of the agency?
26:13
They cover book, cookbook authors and all of those kinds of things.
26:17
They were like a whole agent, like all these agents.
26:19
I temped for them. And then I tempted this hedge fund. And I loved the hedge fund.
26:25
The team was all in the accounting department. The nicest people.
26:28
They were just super nice and down to earth.
26:30
And I'm not a numbers person. That is not my forte. Ask my husband. It's not where I shine.
26:35
Eventually, because I did such a good job at the hedge fund,
26:39
they hired me full time after six months.
26:43
They just had an open position. And they're like, come.
26:46
Like, we loved you. Come back and interview. How fabulous is that?
26:50
It's those moments that I think are like Divine Intervention.
26:54
I didn't know where I was going. I knew I wanted to live in New York City.
26:57
I knew that was where I needed to be.
26:59
These people I kept meeting that just were like, no, come, here you go.
27:03
This is an opportunity for you.
27:05
It was really special. I don't know if that happens to everyone or if it's a
27:09
few of us. There are a couple of them that I still send Christmas cards to.
27:12
Yeah. They still get Christmas cards. I still check in on them because they
27:15
were so special at that time in your life when you're struggling and trying
27:18
to make it work. Well, I think you need mentors.
27:21
Like, I look at what happened, and it really shattered me. It shattered most
27:24
of the people because we're all from the same generation.
27:27
So everything we thought was
27:28
wasn't. And you're like, gosh, how am I going to do this? And you get up.
27:31
But now it's like getting fired. Everyone gets fired from a job.
27:34
And it's not because you do a bad job.
27:36
It's because restructuring, the company's going in a different direction.
27:40
Everyone should get fired. Because you know what? It gives you true grit.
27:44
I was working throughout college.
27:46
I started working as an administrative assistant for this tech company.
27:50
They were going through a restructuring process. I was with them for a couple of years.
27:53
And I was toying with going to the Fashion Institute.
27:57
I applied to all these different places. I put in all my designs and my sketches and portfolio.
28:02
Two days after I got my acceptance to the Fashion Institute in San Francisco,
28:05
I was laid off from my tech job.
28:09
And I went, they're like, we want you to come to San Francisco and work for
28:12
us. We want you to stay on. I was like, I'm going to go to San Francisco, but I'm going to school.
28:16
Right, right. And it was almost like the firing had to happen in order for that
28:21
decision to be really solid.
28:23
For me to be able to tell them, like, now I'm really going to do it because
28:26
this is it. And sometimes you just need that push, too.
28:30
And it's terrifying at first. Oh, it's so terrifying.
28:33
Terrifying at first. And then you remember, no, I can do this.
28:37
All the things I've done before, I can do this. This can be rough.
28:40
But I can pull through. I wish everyone remembered that.
28:43
I really fear for this generation of people that are in work right now in the
28:47
younger positions that we had. They...
28:51
I worry. They don't get it. And this is what, like, I have my girls laugh at
28:55
me every time I try to give them mom advice. Sure.
28:57
But I talk to even young girls who come into my company now.
29:00
And people leave before I do.
29:03
I said, when I was growing up, I don't care if I had to stay till 8 o'clock
29:07
at night, I would never leave before my boss.
29:10
That's right. Because I knew there was someone behind me wanting my job.
29:14
I remember when I was at Ralph Lauren, there was an article,
29:16
I think it was in the New York Times, don't remember exactly.
29:19
But it was harder to get in to Ralph Lauren than it was to Harvard University
29:23
because it was such a place where everybody wanted to work. And this is probably
29:28
like in the mid-90s, maybe.
29:30
But it was so true. There weren't a lot of positions. Like, if you wanted high
29:34
fashion in the United States, this is in Paris.
29:37
Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren were really the big two at the time. Yep.
29:41
And then Armani was like, he was in the United States.
29:44
So that was the third. the hill figure started
29:47
to come up and it was like a different kind of fashion
29:50
it was more ready to wear it wasn't the high couture that
29:53
you're seeing now but it was a really interesting time and now
29:55
people they don't work the same as we did and i think it's good because we work
30:00
so hard and then we get fired so where does that leave us right okay i've never
30:05
thought of it that way thank you that's a different perspective i get irritated
30:09
because i worked so hard and i just don't see the work ethic.
30:13
And I think that's what bothers me. I grew up the same way.
30:15
Both my parents worked and they loved what they did.
30:18
My sister and I grasped that. My grandparents are off the boat.
30:22
They came from Ellis Island.
30:23
They made their way. My dad worked. My mom didn't get her college degree until
30:27
I was in school because she got married really young. My mom went to college. My dad was like, great.
30:32
Taking care of it. She was going to school while we were going to school.
30:35
To watch her mom do that, do something she really loved, was like, well, this is great.
30:41
My sister and I started working when we were 13. Not because we were told to,
30:44
but because I was like, I want some money.
30:47
I'd really like to go down to the drugstore and purchase my own candy.
30:51
Like purchase my love's baby soft. I was in charge of this little boutique down the street.
30:57
I come from this small town called Arenda outside of San Francisco, right next to Berkeley.
31:01
And there was this little downtown and there was this store called the squirrel's
31:05
nest and it was tchotchkes and home things and candles. I loved it.
31:10
I always wanted my own store. That's on the back burner. I loved it.
31:14
I loved meeting with people. I love talking to everyone.
31:16
I love the interaction of that. It filled my soul.
31:21
At Christmas time, the owner opened a little holiday store right in the same little center.
31:28
She's like, Maria, can you work the holiday store after school? I was like, Yes.
31:33
So not only was I in retail, but then I was selling Christmas.
31:36
I was selling the magic. I'd turn on the music, put on the apple cider.
31:39
I'd mix it up in the container.
31:41
And then I would just sell ornaments and holiday cheer.
31:45
I loved it. I would do it after school. I love retail, too.
31:49
It's magical. And I really hope that in the retail sense, we don't get so far
31:54
away from being with people that we lose that.
31:59
Because with everything that's automated, you go into a grocery store,
32:02
you don't even talk to the person anymore.
32:04
Half the time, they don't even care and they don't want to talk to you.
32:06
I miss that. I miss that interaction of like, how are you?
32:11
I'm great. Oh, nice to see you. You know, you recognize the people.
32:14
I hope we don't lose too much of that because that's something so special when
32:18
you're able to, like, communicate with people. Yeah.
32:21
Look in their face. When I was in high school, I was a keyholder for this store
32:24
called GWLRS. Oh, well, that's very special.
32:26
When you get to keyholder status. I can't believe you know what a keyholder is. I do.
32:30
That is hard to come by. You don't start there. And I was a sophomore in high
32:33
school. I loved that job.
32:34
I would open and close the store while I was in high school.
32:38
I had that job right through my first year of college.
32:42
Part-time, obviously. It was like three to nine at night or six to nine when you came in.
32:47
I loved that. I would love to have my own store, too. I think about it and I
32:50
talk about it, but I have to make a profit right now with retail.
32:53
Forget it. It's so sad. That's why I love Europe so much. You go to Florence.
32:58
You go to Paris. You go to Rome.
32:59
You go to any cute little city. I just was in Toulouse last year.
33:04
And you have these beautiful little shops.
33:06
This one clothing store you would have loved. Every time I wear these pants,
33:10
I'm like, I have to get another pair.
33:11
Not that expensive. She made it with love. Gorgeous.
33:15
And these stores do exist, but they don't exist in America so much anymore.
33:20
And I think it's sad because it was a community.
33:22
People loved going shopping. I miss going shopping on Christmas.
33:26
Yes. So let's talk about interiors. Okay. Let's talk about that.
33:30
So when you go into a space, what is the first thing that you look for or notice? How the clients live.
33:38
That's the first thing I notice. How they live, like they're always in the kitchen
33:41
or they're always in their office. How they use the space. How they use the space.
33:45
I look at how many children they have, the ages of the children, how old they are.
33:49
I always ask them if they have any inspiration, if they have any tear sheets, what they love.
33:54
We're a firm where we really work with the client.
33:57
We're not a firm where I go in. I've done this maybe twice in my career where
34:01
the client's like, please just do what you do. And that's fine. And that's a gift.
34:05
For the most part, we get down and we talk to our clients like what's important to you.
34:09
For example, most clients want fabrics that aren't going to stain,
34:13
which makes sense. And now they make so much that is so beautiful.
34:17
These fabric houses that are incredible. If they have animals,
34:20
that's especially important.
34:21
You know, a lot of people have animals. Children, how many children they have,
34:25
because that's also very, very important for edges and furniture pieces.
34:31
Edges. I didn't even think about that.
34:32
My kids are older now, so I'm not thinking about like, yeah.
34:36
So all that has to be into consideration.
34:39
Whether they want a lighthouse, whether they want a dark coasts. We have repeat clients.
34:44
A lot of them have houses in Telluride, Palm Beach, Vero Beach, or all over the place.
34:50
Each house is different where they live. It's all about the geography.
34:55
And how they're in Telluride. They're probably skiing or snowboarding.
34:58
They're at the beach down in Florida, different uses.
35:01
And I walk through the house and I have a client and she said,
35:03
well, this room is the main living room.
35:05
It's like, our kids will be in there. They're older. That's fine.
35:08
But this is where I'm going to have parties.
35:10
This is where I'm going to have parties from my children's school or from my husband's business.
35:14
This is how I want it to be. One client told us I want it to be like a kind
35:18
of California Parisian mix. I'm like, oh, that's.
35:22
Paris and California. So this is great. I am the best at sourcing.
35:27
I source everywhere globally.
35:31
I was with three other designers who were friends of mine.
35:33
And we went to Paris for the fabric shows there.
35:36
And I came back after shopping the flea market and I got this bowl.
35:40
And I said to one of my friends, Fiona, should I grab this bowl?
35:43
She's like, you got to get it.
35:44
And I ended up getting this bowl. It's from the 1950s, south of France.
35:48
It was this beautiful green ceramic.
35:50
And And it was an impeccable condition.
35:53
I don't remember how much it was, but I remember thinking, I'm going to keep
35:56
this, but I think one of my clients will love this because it's so special.
36:00
I remember bringing it with me, holding it like a baby in the airport.
36:05
And I said, I am never going to take anything home again.
36:09
I didn't want to ship it because I was afraid it would get destroyed.
36:12
It wasn't that it was so fragile, but shipping.
36:15
And it was such a beautiful piece. I didn't want it to get destroyed.
36:18
You brought it on the plane with you. Yeah, I carried it. And it was heavy. It was not light.
36:22
Oh, wow. I would have loved to have seen that. That's amazing.
36:25
I was like, where's Chris? I'm like, he's coming.
36:27
Coming. Taking it through security. They're just like. It's a vase. It's a vase.
36:31
It's a bowl, really. It's a bowl. A lot of vase. But yeah, I love doing it.
36:35
Every time I'm away, or whether it's in Vermont or the Cape,
36:39
I'm always looking at the antique stores.
36:42
Sofa state sale. I was so bummed when Monger's Market left.
36:45
Oh, I know. Sad, right? I had never gone in there. And I did this pink moon party.
36:50
There was a pink moon last year and I like to celebrate these things.
36:54
So I did a pink moon party and had a vision for how I wanted to do everything.
36:57
I'm like, I need pink coupes because I love the little champagne coupes.
37:02
I like to put martinis in them. I like to put champagne in them. I love the size.
37:06
I'm just kind of searching around and there's one couple had all the pink coupes.
37:12
Glasses. I walked in. I told her about it. And this is what I also love about
37:16
this. You're talking to someone.
37:17
I told her the story and she goes, I'm so glad you're taking these.
37:21
This is where they need to be.
37:22
It was just this great moment. And then I found this beautiful wooden bowl from
37:26
another lady there that was our singing bowl and energy bowl.
37:30
It was all vintage pieces.
37:32
And it was lovely. It was all stuff that just needed another life. Mix.
37:36
Yes. Yeah. I really wish I had more time because we go up to Vermont all winter.
37:41
And I keep wanting to make more time to explore the antique shops.
37:47
Yeah, there's a lot of them up there. And it's like I always find hidden gems.
37:51
But I suppose anyone can find hidden gems. Do you stop? It's the weirdest thing.
37:54
Okay, so if you see a place and you're like, I should go in there,
37:57
do you do it? Most of the time I do.
37:59
Even when I'm with my kids, which they're not so fond of. And my husband's like,
38:03
but actually he kind of likes that stuff because it's all this cool stuff.
38:07
And maybe I'll find something, maybe I won't. But most of the time,
38:10
I find one thing that looks really cool or that I can resell.
38:14
And that's what I do. I've resold so much to my clients because one thing that
38:18
I love is you can have antique furniture.
38:20
Accessories, to me, should all be really personal. Whether you have a lot of
38:24
them or not many at all, it should be special.
38:28
I just hate things that are so mass-produced and everyone has them.
38:32
It's like your house should represent who you are.
38:34
And you can always tell, too, how people dress.
38:37
How they're going to design their home. Okay. Wait, can you dig into that a little bit more?
38:42
So if someone's very artsy, let's say, or bohemian. If someone's very artsy
38:45
or bohemian, typically they're a little bit more eclectic. You know, maybe Moroccan tiles.
38:50
It's very, not everyone's like this. And when you speak to them,
38:54
you can get a glimpse into it.
38:56
Like a client once said to me, I think I'm just stuck in like the Armani days.
39:00
And that every time I design for them, I'm speaking to them,
39:03
my staff, and I'm like, let's get them out of it a little bit.
39:06
Let's push them a little bit because that aesthetic is still gorgeous,
39:10
but it's let's do something a little bit different here that just takes it up a little notch.
39:15
How do you you have your own style and how you do your house?
39:18
And yeah, how do you balance that with what your client's houses are like?
39:23
Do you completely shut off the Christina Rowan? This is how I would do my house
39:27
and then go into your client and personalize it for them.
39:31
When I worked at Ralph Lauren, I was working for home collection and I was doing
39:35
the antiques app. the time.
39:37
Alfredo Paredes, who's amazing, was my boss way back when. Now he has his own firm.
39:42
He would oversee all of this for Ralph. So I would be in charge of helping Pam Cruz at the time.
39:49
This is going way, way back, like put antiques in like Irish Cottage or do it for Penthouse.
39:55
And it was on 1165 6th Avenue and it was the full floor, but each room had its own theme.
40:02
So it would be Ralph Lauren Cottage, Ralph Lauren Penthouse.
40:05
You would have Super Modern, but it was still a Ralph Lauren aesthetic.
40:08
Then you had Cottage, which was the complete opposite of Modern,
40:12
but there would still be an aesthetic.
40:14
It was a line that followed through that you could still tell it was Ralph.
40:17
Which was really beautiful. And that's what I love about our interiors is I
40:21
can go into a client's home and we have to be simpatico to an extent.
40:27
But I can transform their space into something that they love that's really personal.
40:32
So I take, like if I was doing something that was more traditional,
40:35
what do I love that's traditional?
40:37
What do I know that they're going to love? Let me do a mix. And that's how we design.
40:42
I love that. Like my whole thing is, to me, the best part of my job is when
40:46
a client goes into a home And it's like, I call it the turnkey because we do
40:49
turnkey. We do everything.
40:51
Like I've had clients who have second homes and third homes and they walk in
40:55
and everything's done from the bed linens. The knobs.
40:58
Everything's done. So basically they just bring their suitcases.
41:02
I dream of that one day. I dream of that. I do this for people.
41:07
I dream of that too. Getting done for me. Right?
41:10
I bet. I bet. Just I'll walk in and it'll be complete. You've been featured in so many magazines.
41:18
How does that process work? I've always been very curious about this.
41:22
Do they ask you for stuff? Do you submit something?
41:25
Do you work on a home and you're like, this has to go into Cajun Gardens or
41:30
this has to go into, you know, be submitted to Architecture Digest?
41:34
Like, how does that process work? It's always worked.
41:37
As a designer, you want your work to be featured just because you get more work that way.
41:42
For the longest time, you have to be out there.
41:45
And I should, even to this day, I should be out there more. But it's hard when
41:48
you're balancing your own business, being a mother.
41:50
Instagram, you got to be on this guy. You got to be on this guy.
41:53
So yeah, you just have to be out there and you have to submit and you keep submitting.
41:57
There are so many no's that I've gotten in this industry. So many no's before
42:01
you get a yes. Thank you. Get one yes.
42:02
Because our industry is constantly evolving. And with social media and with
42:06
AI, with everything that's happening now, it's evolving even more.
42:10
And it's evolving at rapid speed. So even the magazines, if you look at the
42:15
magazines, they're this big now.
42:17
That makes me so sad. So how many projects can they possibly choose?
42:20
I just had a conversation with a wonderful editor from Lux Magazine.
42:24
She saw one of my jobs. She's like, Chris, I love this so much.
42:27
The colors, probably your best work yet.
42:29
But we just did a whole thing on New York spaces. There wasn't any room for it.
42:36
So it happens. But it's not that they're not good.
42:39
So then you say okay let me see where else i can show it you kind of have to
42:43
be your own pr person you have to get out there and you submit and you got to have a really thick skin,
42:49
very thick skin and you can't take it personally you just got to know your self-worth
42:52
and keep on moving on i think that's good good advice for all of us in any any
42:57
industry i'm curious about the ai part of this because it's everywhere yes where
43:02
do you see it affecting what you do most.
43:06
Well, I think it's going to affect what we do most to the average consumer who
43:10
wants to do their home. It's good.
43:12
Companies are working on this right now where they can take a picture and download
43:17
it into the website, say, for a restoration hardware.
43:21
They can say, let me pick this, this, this and this. With the measurements,
43:24
all the furniture is going to go in.
43:26
They're going to see in 3D what their room is going to look like.
43:30
It's going to look so realistic that you're not going to be able to tell the
43:34
difference between a photograph and an actual AI.
43:38
It's happening now. Some of these pictures they're doing. It is.
43:40
It's totally happening now.
43:42
The good part about that is, for me, it's great. So I could do rooms quicker
43:47
and say, do you like this? Do you like A, B, or C?
43:49
That's a great portion for what I do.
43:52
There's still going to be the clientele who's going to need that because people
43:55
don't have the time. What we do is really finite, and it's not easy.
44:00
It's just as hard as banking. And I will tell anyone that because it's all production.
44:04
So when you're dealing with a 12,000, 15,000, 20,000 square foot home,
44:09
you have a deadline when you have to get this done.
44:11
They want everything from furniture, fabrics, sheets, art, wall covering.
44:17
Do you know how many skews those are? Do you know how organized you have to
44:20
be to be on budget? And then production time, delivery time.
44:24
Just for billing. Just for billing. Oh, I know. The amount of hours that that takes, it's insane.
44:31
Do you find that you do a set? You'll do, every designer's different.
44:35
Have you done different ways of, okay, I'll give you this whole project's going
44:38
to be like a certain percentage of whatever you're purchasing?
44:41
Or this whole project is man hours?
44:43
Is it easier to just say this whole project is a percentage of whatever you're purchasing?
44:48
Or is it vary? It varies. Okay. Because this is what happens.
44:51
Because I've run the gamut. Yeah.
44:53
I've tested certain things. We used to just give like a creative fee.
44:57
And for the creative presentation, and then we would go into our markup,
45:01
which is 35%, and then we'd charge hourly for installation.
45:04
Okay. What I would find was happening is I wasn't thinking of the company because
45:10
I would do the creative presentation.
45:12
But if clients didn't like something, I'd give them second. I'd give them third.
45:16
So that's like doing a whole presentation over. And you just can't do that.
45:20
I would be out of business. So now what I do is I say, look,
45:23
this is the creative presentation. This is what I think it's going to take.
45:27
However, if it takes more, you know, depending on how many, because I always
45:31
bring one or two options to the presentation.
45:33
And then if they don't like that, it's hourly. It's still hourly.
45:36
Because we can't lose money.
45:37
No. So much time. When my first couple of years of styling, I think I lost so
45:42
much money because I was like, oh, I'll just take care of it.
45:45
The hours that I lost on my time. Right. And that actually took a really long
45:48
time for me to value my own time.
45:51
Right. Because I wanted people to love it so much. And I wanted people to hire
45:55
me so badly. I knew how good I was. Damn it. I'm good at this.
45:59
And I was like, sure, I'll do it. And then I would do it, but then not charge anyone.
46:04
And I'm like, don't worry about it. That's how I was in my early years.
46:07
You've got to value yourself in your own time. And I feel like once I started
46:11
doing that, I started getting the real clients. The people I was with for 10 years.
46:16
The people who were like, I don't want to live without you. When I started to
46:19
value myself, that's really when it started to change.
46:22
And my industry is demanding, too. There's good clients. There are some clients
46:25
that are difficult. If you have a repeat base, it's wonderful. Yeah.
46:29
Are you finding there to be difficulty right now with getting things in?
46:33
Because of everything that's happening? Yeah, with deliveries.
46:36
Not even price markups because I know everything's going up.
46:39
But getting things into the United States, has it been more difficult lately?
46:42
Because I've had shoes that are in Spain and I'm just waiting for them to arrive. To arrive, right?
46:46
You know what? I haven't really experienced the difficulty of that yet. And I'm happy I haven't.
46:52
But I have had things come in from Europe broken where I have to fix it.
46:59
I would never charge my client for that.
47:01
And that's one thing too as a designer. I'm very hands-on. Even when I do hourly,
47:06
I never charge enough of what I do because when I'm working as a business owner,
47:11
I'm working on one project.
47:12
Then someone asked me this question. Then someone asked me this question.
47:15
And I'm like, thank God I have ADD because I wouldn't be able to do it otherwise.
47:20
I think we all have it. We have been having this discussion a lot lately with
47:24
the people I talk to because my brain doesn't function linearly.
47:28
Right. 17 different projects all at the same time.
47:32
Like, thank God I have it because I would not. No one would be fed.
47:36
No one would have their clothes washed. No one would have their schedules done.
47:39
I would be losing all of my clients' things. I think we train ourselves to do it. We must.
47:44
We must. So in the design world right now, are there any trends,
47:48
even though they're not my favorite thing?
47:50
It's cyclical. Things come back and forth. Right. Is there anything you're seeing
47:53
now that you're really enjoying and that you want to incorporate into people's houses? Yes.
47:58
Right now, a lot of traditional things are coming back. And I think that's really nice.
48:02
In my own house, I live in a 225-year-old home, right?
48:07
And it's old just because of the structure. But I like to put modern influences in it.
48:12
You know, whether they're from like a French, like more from the 40s,
48:16
but that's very modern looking.
48:18
Or 1970s chairs with 1970s lighting.
48:21
Like I'm really big into stuff like that. Because I think it's really beautiful. It's who I am.
48:25
Photography has always been huge for me. I love photography.
48:29
I don't know anything about art.
48:31
I took art classes, but it's one thing that I really would love to educate myself
48:34
more on because I feel like we need these things.
48:37
We need to be learning more about all the different places. And I'd love to
48:39
know more about art, but I love photography.
48:42
In our house, we have photographs because I just find them to capture places
48:46
I love and capture moments I love.
48:49
And they're gorgeous. And like fashion photography too. Like I was really,
48:52
I'm still into it, but not as much because I have a small collection,
48:55
But things like that, you know, are really, really beautiful.
48:58
I hope that answers your question. About trends, it's like I love that people
49:01
want things that have a soul, basically. Yes, some character.
49:05
Right. So when you walk into a home, it should feel like the family.
49:09
Yes. Not an ad that you just pulled out of it. No, exactly. I love that.
49:14
Is there a trend you wish would go away? No.
49:17
Those farmhouses with black, what do they call them, panda houses now?
49:20
Is that what they're called? That's what a client told me. My friend was like,
49:23
Chris, because I was like, I told her, oh, God, Laura, I'm so glad you didn't
49:27
do those black frames in your windows because I told her not to do them.
49:31
Just do white. She goes, Chris, I'm so glad I didn't do it. People are calling them panda houses.
49:36
And I'm like, that is the best terminology.
49:38
You know, like those old farmhouses.
49:41
Yes. I wish that would just go away.
49:43
Is there a mistake that people often make when they're designing their own house,
49:48
their interiors? A lot of the times.
49:49
They scale. It's a big thing.
49:52
I get that. I'm terrible at it. So Tyler is one of my wives.
49:57
And she's constantly getting pinged by all of us, by the way,
49:59
for like questions and stuff.
50:01
And I will pick something out and she'll immediately be like, no.
50:06
Like, why? She's like, Maria, it's not big enough. It's going to disappear.
50:09
I'm always finding things that are way too small.
50:11
But it's so cute. No, that's what I get. I love it. I appreciate the no.
50:15
That's how I am. Is this dress work? No. Does it work? Yes, it's great, but no.
50:19
Right. So I get the scale part. Scale's a big thing because people will see something.
50:24
Oh, I love this sofa. Let me bring it in. First of all, does it fit through the door?
50:28
Especially in these antique houses. Is it, right? Do they fit?
50:31
Does it fit up the stairs? Is it going to make that turn?
50:34
Is it going to fit in your room? I've purchased way too many rugs that are too small.
50:38
Thankfully, they're not ready cut in custom. They're just from wherever.
50:42
The scale's a great one. It's hard, though, if you don't do it. If I didn't do it. Yeah.
50:46
I've done it for so long that if I didn't do it, I wouldn't know.
50:49
If someone's refreshing their house and they're not doing a full renovation,
50:52
is there a tip or a trick of something they could add to refresh it a little bit?
50:56
Oh, yeah. Paint. Paint does wonders. Do you have a favorite paint color?
51:00
I do. I love White Dove. I repainted the other house and asked Casey to paint
51:04
one of the boys' bedrooms in that color.
51:06
I love that color. I feel like it's easy to work with for me.
51:09
You know what? We use a lot of silver satin, Benjamin Moore,
51:12
and we love it. It's so beautiful. Yeah.
51:15
But if it's a dark house, a very dark house, I wouldn't suggest it. It's a light color.
51:20
But, you know, colors are so different. And some clients are very sensitive to it.
51:24
Very, very sensitive. And the lighting changes. So I always test it on walls,
51:28
maybe on the south side and the west side, just so they can see how it looks with the sun.
51:35
The light makes such a difference. You could have a paint that looks like White Dove.
51:40
And when it's bright, it looks a totally different color than when it's dark.
51:44
Yeah. So the client has, we made that mistake when we painted all the rooms in the old house.
51:49
I loved this one color in the sitting room.
51:53
And I didn't paint any two walls. I
51:56
just painted one because I didn't know what the heck I was doing but I was painting
51:59
it and then I'm like oh this is a great color and then it turned out to be
52:02
a purple gray we called it the purple room because that purple shade was in
52:06
there the walls looked like this really pretty muddy gray but then it looked
52:10
purple on the other side that's so funny isn't that funny yep and just when
52:14
the light was hitting so the purple room that's what it was forever called oh
52:18
I love that do you have a favorite room in your home.
52:20
Yes, I do. It's our little library. The bookcases are black,
52:26
and it's a satin paint, and the walls are a camel suede.
52:32
And the back of the bookcases are like a faux horsehair. And it has a fireplace.
52:37
These tell me you drink bourbon in there. We do.
52:40
I just give me a club chair and some bourbon.
52:45
And it has, the greatest thing is it has a beautiful old Chesterfield.
52:49
But then alongside of it, it has very modern 70s chairs.
52:53
And I forget the designer's name, but it's a nice combination.
52:57
I'm in visual heaven right now.
53:00
It's fun. People love that room. It's a very fall room. Like fall,
53:03
winter, you want to be in there. You just want to hang out with the fire going. It's very special.
53:08
Has there been a project that you've worked on that was really challenging?
53:11
I think they're all challenging in their own way. All of them are.
53:14
The client's personality really drives each project.
53:18
Is there a dream project? Is there a house that you know or a space that you're
53:22
like, one day I would love? I'd love to do a plane.
53:24
A plane? I haven't done a plane yet, and I would really love to.
53:28
I've done a boat. Ladies and gentlemen, who has a plane?
53:30
You've done a boat. And I'm working on a Hinkley boat right now. Oh, so cute.
53:35
We had a Chris Craft. Oh, really? Two. We had one, then we sold her,
53:39
and then we got another one.
53:41
And my husband would disappear on Saturdays in Rhode Island.
53:44
He would surf in the morning and then scrub and wash and oil the teak in the
53:48
afternoon with two babies.
53:50
At one point, he came home one day. I'm like, choose one.
53:53
It's either going to be the boat or surfing because we're done with the horsey polo.
53:57
Right. Like, you can't. You can't just disappear all summer long in Rhode Island
54:01
in your favorite little activities.
54:02
It's not. With young children. I literally had to be like, I need help.
54:05
Where are you? I mean, he wasn't, I wasn't like a Gulf widow,
54:09
but I was a water widow, basically.
54:12
Right, right. Yeah, no, that boat was so special. Very special.
54:15
But you buy a boat and there goes all of your money. Right, it's so true. You get nothing back.
54:20
Yeah. Except for joy. Boats are an expense.
54:23
They are. As soon as you put it in the water. That's it. Forget it.
54:27
You lose your husband to it. I didn't know how to drive it.
54:29
I also wouldn't go across the Sound with him on it. I didn't feel like he was
54:33
a seasoned enough captain to go from Rhode Island to Block Island or Narragansett, right in the bay.
54:39
He's like, Maria, I've been doing this for like 10 years. I'm like,
54:41
I am still not comfortable.
54:42
Granted, I've swam my whole life. I am perfectly fine to fall off a boat and
54:46
swim to wherever I need to go. I was not okay. So I would take the ferry.
54:50
He still teases me about this to this day. I would take the ferry from Galilee over to Block Island.
54:55
He'd take the kids and the friends, and I would be on the ferry.
54:59
I'd be like, meet you guys there.
55:00
Meet you when we pick up the Vespas. So would you do it now?
55:05
Absolutely not. Love him. Still no.
55:09
When we get a boat, when he turns 50, he wants to do this big surf trip in Fiji with his best friend.
55:16
They're both surfers. They chase hurricanes. They're crazy.
55:19
So their big 50 trip is we're going to get. Is your husband from California? Florida.
55:24
Wow. Yeah, we met in New York. So how did you, what's the connection with Rhode Island?
55:29
He grew up going to Rhode Island. So his parents are snowbirds and his grandparents lived in Chatham, Mass.
55:36
He would go there when he was a kid and then they sold their house there and
55:40
wanted to live in Rhode Island.
55:41
So they got a little house in near Gansett and he would go up to near Gansett
55:44
all summer long. His first job at 13 was in the bakery of Stop and Shop.
55:49
Oh, my God. In near Gansett. Oh, that's so great.
55:53
So then his parents got a house and so that's where we spend all of our summers
55:56
now. That's fabulous. Oh, my gosh. New England waters in the summertime.
56:01
Nothing like it. It is so beautiful. I grew up going to the Cape when I was
56:04
younger in the vineyard, and it was incredible.
56:07
It was amazing. And then one of my best friends, I grew up, too,
56:11
going to her house in Charlestown, Rhode Island.
56:14
Oh, yes. Dave's Coffee's right there. I make a point of stopping at Dave's to
56:17
get my coffee. Oh, do you really? Oh, that's so funny. Absolutely.
56:20
She's still there. It was a family hall. Her parents had passed,
56:22
but it's still in her family, and she's there all the time.
56:25
And actually, her cousin, who's Irish, bought a house on Block Island a few
56:29
years ago. I haven't seen it in person yet, but I need to get over there.
56:33
And I love Block Island. I love Block Island. We used to go to the, is it Three Kittens?
56:37
I think it's the Three Kittens. There's a bar. It's a dive bar.
56:40
Great spot. Is it still there? It is still there.
56:42
Yeah, it is still there. At the end, I asked three questions.
56:45
The first question is, is there something on your bucket list that you want
56:48
to do? Yes, I need to go to Morocco.
56:51
Oh, gosh. Could you imagine the textile? And I haven't been there yet.
56:54
And I want to do a buying trip to Morocco.
56:57
I want to go to Yves Saint Laurent's museum. I want to stay in beautiful places
57:02
and I just want to eat it up.
57:05
No one has said Morocco yet. I love that. Yeah, I haven't been there yet.
57:09
Okay. That's such a good one. Is there something that you've changed your mind about recently?
57:15
I don't think so. I think we change our minds every day. I don't know if I can
57:18
answer that one. Learning specific. And then the last question is,
57:20
is there a piece of advice that you would give your younger self?
57:23
Don't be so hard on yourself. Don't be so hard on yourself and breathe.
57:28
And let people do things for you. Still learning that one.
57:35
Still learning that one. Do you tell your girls that too? I tell my girls to
57:40
first and foremost think about themselves.
57:44
I grew up where my mother would say to us, my sister and I, if you have a,
57:48
and you have a friend over, if you have a cookie and you break it in half,
57:51
always give the other person the bigger piece.
57:54
And that's how I grew up. But I realized that I modeled my life like that,
57:59
which is not right because you're never thinking of yourself,
58:03
especially as a woman, because my mother didn't say that to my brother.
58:07
Different rules. Different rules. So this applied to work where you're working
58:11
with men and you're working with other women and you're doing X, Y, and Z.
58:15
So it's like saying if you want a job and someone else wants a job that you
58:19
know and you both are going for the same job, would you put 100% towards that
58:25
job or would you step back to let the other person have it? It's like telling girls to be smaller.
58:30
That's what it was. Be smaller. And she didn't mean it. My mom didn't mean anything.
58:33
It was the way she was raised, right? Of course. Oh, of course.
58:36
But I feel like as we grow up, we learn to change the narrative for ourselves a little bit.
58:41
A hundred percent. The way we grew up is different than the way they grew up.
58:43
Yes. The way my mom was raised is very different than how she raised us and how we raise our kids.
58:48
Right. And there are pieces that are obviously still going to the family,
58:51
that you still do traditions and certain phrases and things like that that follow through.
58:56
But my sister and I both raise our kids differently in the same value set. Right.
59:03
Based on what we grew up with. But my mom, the way she grew up,
59:07
we didn't grow up like that. Right.
59:09
It's interesting. I want to always evolve. I never want to stay the same.
59:13
People would say, oh, you haven't changed.
59:15
Oh, gosh, I have to. I really hope I have. And I want to change for the better.
59:18
I have so much more to learn.
59:20
It's like when you go through that phase when you're younger and you think you know everything.
59:25
I go back to those moments. My God, what was I thinking? And now it's like I
59:29
know nothing. Like I know nothing now. I know nothing. Absolutely nothing.
59:32
And it's like you keep learning. But I wish that that's something that I tell
59:36
the boys, that you don't know anything.
59:39
In sports, they would say when the coach would tell them something,
59:42
yeah, I know, I know. I'm like, no, you don't know.
59:45
You actually don't know. So if someone's talking to you, okay,
59:48
thank you. Yes. All right.
59:50
Take it in. Be respectful of the person who's trying to guide you and teach
59:53
you. And also, you don't know. Right.
59:56
Most of the time, you don't know. And if you're hearing it again,
59:59
you need to hear it again. Yeah.
1:00:01
Yeah. Yeah. You might be, you're not listening. Yeah. That's so true.
1:00:05
We all need that, though. We all do. But I love this part of life now where
1:00:09
I'm at a stage where I can do that, though.
1:00:12
I'm allowing myself to do that. I can do that. I have the opportunity to do that. I'm open to it.
1:00:17
Right. And I don't know, younger, I probably would be, like,
1:00:20
I wasn't open to that. Right.
1:00:22
Isn't it funny as you age, like, what happens? I love it. Like, it's a gift to age.
1:00:28
It is. It's a total gift to age. I feel so much better at this age than I did
1:00:32
10 years ago, even. Right. Like, really.
1:00:35
And my own skin and who I am and what I say and how I can talk to people.
1:00:38
I'm still very polite. But I'm also not afraid to say what I think and feel anymore.
1:00:43
You're not afraid to disagree and say your opinion.
1:00:46
Because your opinion is very important. I was very conflict-averse.
1:00:49
I mean, my wives joke that, like, I'm the one who doesn't like conflict.
1:00:53
And I still don't. Right. But at least now I'm able to look at someone and be
1:00:56
like, okay, I don't agree with you.
1:00:57
This is what I think. We can disagree. And it's all good. Right.
1:01:00
I used to not be able to do that.
1:01:01
But I think that comes with comfort in who you are. It does.
1:01:03
And being like, this person's not going to hate me because of what I think.
1:01:06
And if they do, maybe we shouldn't be friends.
1:01:09
Right. Exactly. And I tell my girls, you need to advocate for yourself.
1:01:13
Because I'm not going to always be here. You need to learn to advocate,
1:01:16
especially as a woman in society.
1:01:18
And if you know you're right, you can do it politely and nicely and get yourself heard.
1:01:22
Yes, that's so true. That's another good piece of advice. Thank you.
1:01:26
Oh, Christine, this has been so fun. Thank you so much, Maria.
1:01:29
It's amazing. It's so fun. Now I want bourbon.
1:01:32
I need to do like night ones now. That actually would be fun because people
1:01:37
let loose a little bit more.
1:01:39
Thank you so much for joining me today on She's Smart. New episodes drop every Thursday.
1:01:44
Don't forget to subscribe and share. Stay cozy.