Latest / Culture Brief - Christian perspectives on the week's biggest news, sports & pop-culture stories / Kathryn Krick’s viral “healing” videos, why Gen Z wants old-school worship & the Lakers' shock sale | Ep. 82

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Kathryn Krick’s viral “healing” videos, why Gen Z wants old-school worship & the Lakers' shock sale | Ep. 82 · Culture Brief - Christian perspectives on the week's biggest news, sports & pop-culture stories

0:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Connor Jones, and this is Culture Reef, a didn't support podcast where we navigate the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, and technology, and we do it all from a Christian perspective.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, you heard that, right?
0:14
[SPEAKER_00]: There was no other name set at the beginning of this, it's just me here.
0:17
[SPEAKER_00]: For now, just for a minute, I'm just doing this little intro today.
0:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be joined by my friend Jonathan Becker, he's going to be joining me virtually from Tyler, Texas.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: He loves that East Texas vibe out there.
0:26
[SPEAKER_00]: He is a innocent form, contributing writer for us.
0:29
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been writing articles for the last few months.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Been doing really great work on some particularly thorny theological issues, women in ministry, the passion translation, but this week you wrote about Katherine Crick and the growing NAR movement.
0:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something that has gone very viral the last few weeks with Katherine Crick is the self-proclaimed profit and you may be seeing some of the videos of her doing healing, the deliverances, and bookstores are on stages, so we delve into that.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: He did a bunch of research there.
0:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He also talked about Gen Z and their worship preferences in another article that he wrote at the beginning of the month.
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: We dive into that.
0:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the data.
0:58
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it tell us?
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do Gen Z people actually tend to lean towards some of these old school orthodox services?
1:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of goes against the grain of what a lot of us think.
1:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is a lot of data there to show us that hey, they kind of like something about.
1:12
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe it'll church pew, maybe an organ, some of that some of you all have been in or growing up in a lot of us grew up in contemporary churches.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So what is it about the orthodox aisle that's driving them to those churches?
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what Jonathan's going to dive into.
1:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Then he's going to stick around and talk with me through the check-in and tune in sections we discussed.
1:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, didn't pan it's here.
1:31
[SPEAKER_00]: We discussed the Los Angeles Lakers sale, uh, man.
1:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Sports franchises, guys.
1:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They are just blowing up in value 12 and a half million dollars for the Lakers would have sounded insane just four or five years ago, but this is the reality of We live in a world that's so virtual in a world that has so much AI in a world that tries to keep us in our homes and on our screens But people want to be out and about and surrounded by other people other fans other people on a concert Other people in church other people in a movie theater.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something about a real authentic raw
2:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Experience live experience that's drawing people there, and I think these billionaires are started to realize hey We got a cash in on this now So there's something there because we're not made for isolation God has made us to be in community this looks best in a church setting But we see it just in our human nature people who don't even know the Lord They want to be surrounded by others.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They want friendships.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They want authenticity.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot there.
2:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're gonna talk a little bit about that
2:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And then even a big race this weekend, you might say what you guys don't ever talk about race cars, that's because it's not generally a thing that's at the top of culture, but there's something happening this week and we're going to discuss that at the very end.
2:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So stick around here Jonathan dive into these topics.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a great conversation with him.
2:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hope you enjoy it and let us know your feedback.
2:40
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's jump into the brief.
2:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, welcome, Jonathan Becker.
2:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you're here.
2:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Connor.
2:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me on.
2:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm honored to get to do this.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to our conversation today.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
2:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So a little bit about Jonathan.
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He is the student minister at Marvin Methodist Church in Tyler, Texas.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: You live it out there in the East, don't you?
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He's Texas.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But not right now, man.
3:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a thousand degrees out here.
3:09
[SPEAKER_00]: A thousand degrees everywhere in Texas.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: But especially it's always super humid over there in East Texas.
3:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember working at a camp in Tyler.
3:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It just being like, woo.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: brutal in the summer.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a song.
3:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But Jonathan, you are an adjective faculty in biblical studies and Christian ministry at Heritage Bible College and you hold an MA in biblical literature from Wesley biblical seminary and you plan to begin your PhD in theology in 2027 after completion of your demon.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: from true it's seminary.
3:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And as I mentioned at the top of this episode, he is a contributing writer for it's here at Tennessee Forum, and it's ended tackle pretty thorny theology subject.
3:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, you got all this study, you got all this education, it's good that you're doing this.
3:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I'm so glad you're joining us today, Jonathan.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to start off with a couple of questions for you here.
3:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You recently wrote an article, I think we posted it this past Monday, actually.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And the title was The Dangerous of Katherine Crick and the New,
4:02
[SPEAKER_00]: on that.
4:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is Captain Crick?
4:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And what is the NAR movement?
4:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll ask another question about that specifically about the NAR movement and one of their big foundational pieces called the Seven Mountain Mandate.
4:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But just start us off with which Captain Crick, what is the NAR?
4:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
4:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Katherine Crick is a...
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: charismatic leader that has really gotten famous over the last few years doing deliverance videos.
4:26
[SPEAKER_01]: She's really kind of just gotten popular in social media.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: People will see her doing deliverances and sermons of some sort.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: She claims to be an apostle.
4:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are some of the things that has really like.
4:44
[SPEAKER_01]: really heightened her status.
4:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she has a pretty large following hundreds of thousands of followers on social media.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the NAR itself is not actually
4:58
[SPEAKER_01]: a part of a denomination.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's stemmed from, you know, the Charismatic Pentecostal movement.
5:04
[SPEAKER_01]: There were just, there were some people in there that kind of formed to this movement, a C.P.
5:08
[SPEAKER_01]: or Wagner was the first person that named it.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and that was in a 1996 conference at Fuller Theological Seminary.
5:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was a professor there for, I believe it was close to 30 years.
5:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's kind of where it started and then it kind of evolved.
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And really the idea was as they were trying to,
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[SPEAKER_01]: in a nutshell, they were trying to shift churches from being denominational and being more led under a apostleship, under a prophetical and a apostle, you know, led leadership.
5:42
[SPEAKER_01]: There's really what it is.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when she claims herself as an apostle, of course, I guess we can kind of see that trend.
5:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But...
5:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are other people.
5:50
[SPEAKER_01]: There are other people, part of the NER, people are probably very familiar with publicain white over who is, you know, who has trumps personal, spiritual advisor and also heads the newly created faith department in the White House.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've definitely heard of her.
6:08
[SPEAKER_00]: She's always been around.
6:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can see similarities between her and Catherine Crick.
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Catherine Crick seems to be this character who is really risen up in the last few years.
6:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, like her social media following has just blown up.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: She's grown this huge audience.
6:23
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want you to focus specifically.
6:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell me what is she doing specifically in these videos they have gone ultra viral?
6:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean millions upon millions of views.
6:30
[SPEAKER_00]: You're calling them deliverances.
6:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really kind of like a healing is what's happening.
6:37
[SPEAKER_00]: She's preaching all these things, she's kind of associated with some sketchy pastures who have like abuse allegations.
6:43
[SPEAKER_00]: She may or may not have known about.
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know that for sure.
6:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But her general circle of influential people that she's looking up to, they're not exactly ideal in that sense, right?
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But these videos, what else are we seeing in them?
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, really,
7:01
[SPEAKER_01]: what we see a lot of it and I'm sure that some of the viewers if they've read the article already, they've seen you know, Mike Winger, very popular pastor and teacher, Ali Neff Stucky, very popular.
7:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They have already done some videos on breaking down some of what's going on in Katherine Creek's videos, but yeah, a lot of what she is doing is sometimes there is
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: demonic deliverance where somebody will come up from the audience, and they'll start talking, and then they'll just start shaking and flopping through the ground.
7:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we've got that, which I don't think that's necessarily new for a lot of our readers and watchers.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's probably something that we have seen before, possibly like Benny Hind style stuff.
7:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but I was thinking of Benny Hind too.
7:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And how costy Hind now is, I believe, nephew talks a lot about that and how it was a lot of it was not real.
7:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
7:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it really does beg the question on are these people acting, you know, what is going on?
7:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It just, you've watched it and you get that unsettling feeling to something's not right.
8:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's a lot of that in her videos, a lot of, you know, deliverance, there's a lot of, uh,
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: you know healing style things as you were saying sets you know that's how a lot of her popularity exploded was sharing these videos people sharing them yeah I think part of it it's almost made for virality because you're seeing these people come up to her talk to her get touched by her and they start shaking insanely the falling of the ground in the middle of these like bars and nobles right like yes they're just it's very much so a big scene now
8:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't sit here and say that everything is not real.
8:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't say not that God can do these types of things.
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you have to strike the balance in this conversation.
8:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like basically what this is going to be is like a call to discernment and try to figure out if you think this is actual prophetizing is this actual work of God or is this something totally
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: false or at the worst demonic in a way, and we're not going to be able to tell you exactly what it is, but we are just breaking down the situation and what you should look for in these videos.
9:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, if you want to watch these videos, they're linked in the article that Jonathan has written for us, which will be linked in the show notes here.
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So go read the article, see these videos.
9:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say Jonathan,
9:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the most disturbing video is actually this one where people are coming up to her.
9:21
[SPEAKER_00]: She's sitting on a stage and they are bowing to her and bringing her gifts and they're basically praising her.
9:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Not praising God.
9:28
[SPEAKER_00]: They're praising her and they're calling her mama.
9:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's almost got a cult-like feel to it.
9:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a call in her mama saying, we honor you, you are, I forgot the exact ring that basically like you're the greatest of all kind of a thing.
9:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, very, very much, you know, something Paul and Luke wrote against in the New Testament, you know, and so they rejected worship from man.
9:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, while you can argue, maybe they are just,
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: humbled by who she is and they're not physically worshiping her.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really fine line of what's going on in those videos and it just it's just unsettling.
10:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, so I I would certainly caution our readers and watchers to be the serning.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no question that the Holy Spirit still allows us to speak in tongues.
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no question that the Holy Spirit heals and does miracles, but this seems very theatrical.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, definitely something to pray and discern on when you are engaging this kind of content.
10:35
[SPEAKER_01]: From anyone is scripture says to test the spirits.
10:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is true of not just the situation.
10:40
[SPEAKER_00]: This is true of anything that feels off.
10:41
[SPEAKER_00]: If it feels off, there's a reason you feel off about it.
10:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And you think about it, pray about it, discern that.
10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: With this NAR movement that she's technically part of technically not a part of I know you're saying it's kind of more like a vague Denomination.
10:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not actually an organization per se.
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more of just this big theological movement.
10:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of an independent shift right right right What is it that they are saying when they call this concept the seven mountain mandate?
11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that?
11:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So the seven mountain mandate is something that they believe Christians should be trying to do as a collective.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not denying that there probably isn't good heart behind this.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The seven mountain mandate basically tells Christians that they need to be in control of the government, business, religion, family, the arts, media, education, all these different areas.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So these seven mountains, right?
11:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think it's important to delineate that like there's nothing wrong with Christians being in charge of these areas.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it'd be a great thing if Christians were in charge of these areas.
11:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're going to hinge your entire movement on basically, you know, you are basically this, this might be for lack of better words, but you're a fringe movement and you were trying to infiltrate all these different areas.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to figure out doing my research on them.
12:06
[SPEAKER_01]: What was their ultimate goal of the seven mountain mandate?
12:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I mean, we see people like Paula White, let's just say, you know, she's now in the highest form of government, you know, she's in the White House.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and you hear some of the things that she teaches, and it's just like, you know, if your goal was to get up into the government, congratulations, you made it, but you teach so much heretical things, like you teach like that Christians we can walk into a room, and basically we
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, we're in control.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We should demand power.
12:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And we should demand, you know, a certain kind of authority.
12:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like, okay, we're getting really humanistic here.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: This is this is leaving, you know, the authority that crisis given us, right?
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: The authority to cast at demons, the authority to live the Christian life to, you know, let the Holy Spirit speak through us.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We're kind of we're kind of beginning to change that foundation.
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're beginning to kind of go into.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like a political Christian nationalism kind of approach to the way that we are involved in all of these institutions.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we should be involved, but when it becomes Christians have to dominate everybody and Christians have to be in complete control and God has given us the authority to do whatever we want.
13:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We can name it and make enclaim it, which you will see a lot of teachings
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we are going to let God discern and let God lead, and we're going to let God have the glory to where we are now taking into upon ourselves and we are now being the mode, you know, in the government or whatever, like we're almost making the government, in the media of the arts, all these different things, we're making them almost the object of worship and so the God and so it just feels very backwards to me.
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I appreciate your answer there.
14:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for taking us through that.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: As a last question on this topic before, dive into Gen Z worships.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it just all around?
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I know some of that you just hide into your answer to this question, too, probably.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: But what is it that you were saying is so dangerous about Katherine Creek in the NAR movement?
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: In the article, you say it's a danger to evangelicalism.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you say that?
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And you give us three primary reasons.
14:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you take us through those primary reasons?
14:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
14:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take you through the primary reasons.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would just start with a disclaimer that any time you are trying, and once again,
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Seems like there is a...
14:43
[SPEAKER_01]: intention to deceive or to think that I have all this power, right?
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That Katherine Crick is kind of operating in.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That just makes the Christian faith in general.
14:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, that it makes us look artificial.
14:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes us look like, you know, we mentioned Benny Hinner earlier.
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we are just grubbing for attention and for money and for support.
15:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just reflects poorly on the gospel.
15:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so.
15:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the profit of a possible and the office of profit and a possible is something that is closed now.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have a reason to need a profit to come and tell us to repent and to do all these things.
15:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We have been given scripture.
15:28
[SPEAKER_01]: God, through His special revelation,
15:32
[SPEAKER_01]: right, inspired these biblical writers.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: These men and possibly some women we don't really know about some of the books.
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: He inspired them to give us spiritual truth that only God could give.
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he has given us everything from the beginning in Genesis to the end of Revelation.
15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: all the things that we need to live the Christian life and to how to discern situations.
15:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for someone to come and claim and self-proclaim themselves as an apostle, even if the movement claims that they're an apostle, I think there's a big departure from what we see in Scripture where, you know,
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: prophets and apostles were appointed by Jesus, right?
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The apostles were the people who were commissioned to go into ministry, right before Jesus ascended, right?
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus commissioned them.
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, the prophets of the ones that were to lead the people back to God.
16:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go Old Testament, New Testament, that you would show that John the Baptist is the last prophet.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But these people are called prophets and appointed as prophets by God.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not something we can do for ourselves.
16:35
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no communal consensus to where, you know, well, hey, a hundred people said I'm a prophet, or I'm an apostle, so I'm an apostle or a prophet, and it's not the way that works in scripture.
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would say that's reason number one, I'm what we're going to be really careful, and why, you know, I really think that it's a danger to evangelicalism.
16:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can move on to the second point, and you want to do that?
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We bow only to Christ.
17:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that you had just brought us up that, you know, there are these people that bowed a cath or in correct, calling our mama doing all these things that we just described.
17:10
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something we as Christians should always avoid.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't bow to anyone.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And so our God is not a human being, right?
17:20
[SPEAKER_01]: He was here, Christ, but he is ascended and he is now at the right hand of the Father.
17:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if it's not Christ, we don't about anyone.
17:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we see this in Scripture where we see this with Cornelius and with Peter, Peter didn't allow Cornelius to bow to him because he says, I'm just a man, right?
17:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We see that and then we see, you know, with Paul and Barnabes,
17:42
[SPEAKER_01]: the people in Lysher were wanting to worship them, because they were like some form of gods.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, no, we're the same nature as all of you do not direct your worship to us.
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It should be, you know, it should be to Christ alone.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I concluded in that section of the article, it doesn't matter if John the Apostle, John Wesley, you know, John Calvin, John, John, John, whoever, we don't bad anybody.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: other than Christ.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't make exceptions for that.
18:08
[SPEAKER_01]: With that said, I think that also comes into play, even with our favorite pastors, our favorite scholars.
18:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes we put them up on pedestals and we inadvertently make them in the gods or into like demigods.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that is also wrong.
18:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we need to be extremely careful as believers in that area.
18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, absolutely agree with that.
18:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we don't bow to anyone but our Lord.
18:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he is the king of kings and we will all bow before him one day, which is such a good reminder.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate that we can't make false idols or gods out of anybody, even people that we, you know, we grow to love and trust in our churches or whatnot and church leadership and even evangelical leadership, it can be easy to even make some of those people.
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had also sometimes because you believe they have got this special thing about them.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of them do in a way they're spiritually gifted.
18:55
[SPEAKER_00]: But they are humans just like us and they are falling which is why sometimes when you know a prominent event jellical figure Fails and falls into some sort of sin and it becomes public or whatnot Part of why it hurts so bad sometimes because in a way in our heads and our hearts and our minds We might be lifting them into a pedestal.
19:13
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good call out.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What was your third thing?
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So the third thing is
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: we need to be aware of when it appears that people are making their fame by casting at demons in claiming a false ship.
19:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so don't get me wrong.
19:26
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a beautiful thing to see demon cast out.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I have missionary friends that went to Africa and they got to do this.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some of the testimonies they brought home.
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it happen here in America.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: whether it's, you know, it seems like there's a house that just there's an unsettling spirit or something wrong in the house or there was something wrong with the person they got prayed over and they were delivered.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it happen.
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So no one's denying that it's not real.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a cessationist.
19:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not somebody that believes that all of these gifts have
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, a lot of these gifts like healing and prophecy, even some people might even say deliverance like these things are still here.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They are still active.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: They might not be as prevalent.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We might not see them as prevalent in the United States, but they're there.
20:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not ever denying that in the article nor do I.
20:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is a level of discernment as well for us to be aware of these people that, you know, maybe you're doing this for show and they're
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think second Peter, one versus one through three sums this up well, that there is going to be people that are going to secretly introduce destructive heresies.
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we see that in the NAR, they're going to follow depraved conduct and we'll bring the way of truth into disrepute.
20:42
[SPEAKER_01]: right so they're going to drag biblical truth in to this and make it look bad and it says that in their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories that is a warning from Peter on how we really need to test the spirits and I really get that feeling with Catherine Crick is that this there's fabrication happening here so once again I'm not the Holy Spirit ultimately I don't know I hope that some of them were real in legitimate
21:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can tell by looking at some of the videos as I said in the article, the acting leaves a little bit to be desired.
21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as Christians we need to be extraordinarily aware and alert when people start propping themselves up as apostles and they're doing these great works.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to keep a close eye on
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, where our theology is and where our relationship with Christ is.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So the, you know, they do not become some form of idol or in this case, some sort of demigod.
21:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So well, I totally agree with you on that and, you know, it's one of those things where many of the best servant of the Lord or the most humble, they're not doing it for any sort of self.
21:48
[SPEAKER_00]: grandization or any way to prop themselves up or when not when they're not publicizing maybe they are doing healings and they are doing giftings but yeah they're just going into a place and doing it not with cameras that's always interesting.
22:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Well Jonathan thanks for taking this to that that's really good stuff.
22:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's dive into your other article that you wrote a few weeks ago at the beginning of August.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: That was how to what Gen Z is telling the contemporary church.
22:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Why young Christians are drawn to old school worship?
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man.
22:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You did a bunch of research on the topic of Gen Z worship preferences.
22:21
[SPEAKER_00]: What did that data show you?
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
22:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and it also very meaningful research for me because that is what I do.
22:28
[SPEAKER_01]: That is my, I mean, full time in this race of student minister, you know, this is stuff that's helpful for me to know like what's really going on with our students like what we see can often be very different from what is going on behind the scenes.
22:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And so really we have seen and there's there's a bit of data to suggest this and I even note this in the article that some people are going to argue that there's not enough data to really suggest that Gen Z is beginning to kind of depart from the contemporary church I would say that we have enough there's enough of a sample size for us to kind of see the trends.
23:08
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of it is theological, and so, for example, I'm just going to use Eastern Orthodox, you know, like just the Orthodox Church.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a study done by the Orthodox Studies Institute, and they have been doing this study since 2013, and so 62% of their converts since 2013 have been
23:32
[SPEAKER_01]: were Protestant.
23:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They were from a Protestant church.
23:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And of those same number 62% converts, 60% of them had theological reasons.
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, very interesting data when you begin to plug into the long, and I'm not telling the readers, obviously, that orthodox church is the answer.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I am saying is this.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: people are going to go where they feel like their questions are going to get answered in Gen Z.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: In the Barna study, this was a 2018 study conducted by Barna, 29% of Gen Z had a hard time believing of why God allows Evelyn suffering.
24:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there's a third of Gen Z that's struggling with that, what are we doing to teach?
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we teaching?
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we teach?
24:20
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, why God allows suffering.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the ultimate answer is that Christianity is the one religion in the world that gives a legitimate answer to what will happen because of the suffering in the evil is there's going to end up being
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: redemption and resolution and God is going to make everything right.
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there is a great message of hope.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But if our churches are really focused on doing kind of this programmatic stylistic kind of worship where it's
24:51
[SPEAKER_01]: showy.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more flashy.
24:53
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, hey, we want to get people there.
24:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Matt's like the focus, and we're missing the truth.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why we're losing Gen Z.
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: This Gen Z wants that authenticity.
25:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They went into the Bayer experiencing a genuine encounter with God.
25:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they can go get the entertainment on TikTok or on Instagram or Snapchat anytime they want.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: If they want to go see concerts,
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: they can do at any time they want, but when they come to church and this goes against a lot of what people think about Gen Z and if someone who's in Gen Z, I can affirm this, they are not shallow.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: They want Gen U in encounters.
25:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they only, you know, be feeling like they're being sold Jesus and that they're trying to be drawn in by these things.
25:34
[SPEAKER_01]: They just want real.
25:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And great great worship music, a good part of the worship experience.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But when all of the flashingness and even our sermons when they're just meant to tickle the ears and they're happy and they're joyful and there's 90% fillers and only 10% truth you're not going to keep Gen Z in the church so that's what the studies are suggesting and then 23% of Gen Z in that study and the bonus study thought that Christians didn't act according to what they claimed in their faith.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So
26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: their hypocrites.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and then the other 20% said that they feel like science refutes Scripture and Christianity.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's fault is that?
26:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the church has got to take some of the blame on this, is that if we ignore these issues, they're not going to just go away.
26:25
[SPEAKER_01]: We have got to engage the culture.
26:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And so with how many different schools of thought there are now, different philosophies, ideologies,
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: all these different things in the world, all the different research institutions and colleges and universities, all the things that students can get their hands on.
26:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to make sure that the church were not behind.
26:45
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to, scripture says, we need to have to give an answer.
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to give an answer about our faith, the apology.
26:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, that's kind of the breakdown of the data of what we're seeing in Gen Z, according to, according to Barnett and
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's very helpful for all Christians to know that this is what's going on.
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it runs counter to the narrative a lot of us probably running our heads, which is, oh, well, Gen Z will like big lights and big screens and loud and proud music or, um, you know, hit pastors and all that.
27:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe they do.
27:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot do, but it sounds like there is at Lisa some pretty large chunk of subset who's like, I want to sit in a pew and I want to listen to the old style.
27:24
[SPEAKER_00]: music I want to feel the authenticity of I want to sit in a room filled with Christian to they fully believe what's being worshiped here preached here taught here and you do get that a lot of contemporary services but I can see what you're saying is like yeah they're on screens all day long a lot of Gen Z feels isolated they want real authentic relationships with peers and friends and mentors but specifically they want an authentic relationship with
27:52
[SPEAKER_00]: help getting answers to the really tough questions that many of us wrestle with and will wrestle with it for the rest of our lives.
27:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like those questions go away, but we learn how to answer those questions and learn how to see how scripture points is back to those things.
28:03
[SPEAKER_00]: How can the church respond to that?
28:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a great point, Jonathan, that you're making as the last thing here on this point.
28:08
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's a church staff member here listening a pastor listening or anybody who's in some sort of leadership relative church, go listen to this conversation.
28:15
[SPEAKER_00]: What would be the primary takeaway and encouragement that you would offer them?
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess I can answer that in two parts.
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to answer that Katherine Creek and Genzi.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do both.
28:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, honestly, yeah, go for it.
28:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking the Genzi thing, but if you can tie both together, that's even better.
28:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll do my best.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would say if you know, if you're a church leader, and we're going to talk about how we deal with theological issues, I think we need to be discerning.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be my encouragement to pastors.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It would not be just immediately.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: go to judgment and, you know, say that someone's a heretic or the someone's a false prophet.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's easy to do that.
28:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a big track record on Katherine Crick.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the teachings, some of the things that she does, it's pretty easy to call that out.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think when we see it, we should communicate to our churches like, hey guys.
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: this is false theology.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not what scripture teaches.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think we need to do that well and on the same part of the conversation, we also need to be very careful before we jump to conclusions.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's something that we deal with as, you know, even me talking here on my Methodist, you know, you're in the Baptist Church.
29:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is something that
29:27
[SPEAKER_01]: even if there's an Baptist fight about this, I go, well, they teach.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: We're a mystery, they don't teach women mysteries, it's just that kind of stuff.
29:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to be careful how we call out each other in theology.
29:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether we are talking about a historical theological issue or whether we're talking about
29:44
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, a holiness issue.
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know what I'm saying?
29:47
[SPEAKER_01]: There's ways that we can delineate between what he'll do we die on and what he'll do we not die on.
29:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I think we need to be discerning in the way that we do that.
29:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to be my encouragement on Katherine Crick and AR.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Gen Z, be real, man, just be real.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they want.
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Let, you know, when they come in, welcome them, greet them, make them feel at home.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But give them Jesus.
30:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, artificially enhanced version of Jesus or a watered down version of Jesus, you know, I like the sermon David Platt preached years ago where he said that so often in American churches we have taken the gospel and we've watered it down with Ku-lad to make it taste real good.
30:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Gen Z's not looking for that.
30:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would just say be real with them, love them, disciple them.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They are looking for people to come along, side them, and to guide them in their faith.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: They are desiring that.
30:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why I think the study that we read in the Orthodox Studies Institute is very interesting.
30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's perhaps they are feeling that more in liturgical oriented churches than they are in the churches that are just
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: purely focused on, you know, not in a bad way, but very performance based.
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not where Gen Z is finding their wheelhouse right now.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thanks for that Jonathan.
31:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Great stuff.
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You did a great research, great writing on this.
31:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for coming on and talking, sharing some of the things that you wrote about and researched and all of that.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: This is really good and I hope it was really encouraging for our listeners to just really think about these things.
31:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They're real, whether it's a,
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: trying to discern if a profit is real or not or trying to think through how Gen Z might be responding to different things within your church.
31:30
[SPEAKER_00]: This is real stuff and it's good stuff and you've got a great perspective on that last part for sure as a youth pastor man you're around Gen Z all day long so I know you're constantly thinking through how can we best minister to these younger people in our lives so that's awesome.
31:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Well Jonathan do you want to stick around for checking and tuning?
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Love to.
31:46
[SPEAKER_00]: All right let's do it.
31:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's jump into check in here.
31:52
[SPEAKER_00]: some sad news up top hate and panetier an actress many of us know and watched especially you know in our generation she was kind of with in our generation a little bit older than me not sure about you Jonathan but she was always around and TV shows and all that obviously the star of heroes and then Nashville were kind of her two really big thanks to you also remember the Titans as little girls in that movie I think that was her first role
32:14
[SPEAKER_00]: sadly she passed away.
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Sunday in Greenville, South Carolina, now authorities have said that they found no foul players, suspicious circumstances, but the emergency responders found her and cardiac arrest slightly before her death.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Just really sad, tragic, and one of those things, you know, to your question of like, why do why do things like this happen and answering that for non-believers or for for people who are new into the faith or went out or young, try to figure it out.
32:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just one of
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is where we got a point back to scripture, right?
32:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
32:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it's it's always sad when you see a loss of life, especially when someone's so young.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to say I am I'm 33 and so I think she was like 36 a lot of, you know, a lot of the movies my sister, my little sister, grew up watching, had been here and I'm like ice princess.
32:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I can so remember that probably seemed like movie 25 types.
33:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's just sad to see that.
33:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, her little brother died years back as well.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in 2003, I believe, yeah, and he was, he was like 28 and so it's just sad when you see that stuff happen and obviously we don't know all the reasons or what was going on behind the scenes and I don't know if anyone knew that she was struggling, I think that also is something to look out for as Christians is sometimes the face that we put out on Sunday.
33:27
[SPEAKER_01]: is not the reality of who we are on Monday, and so it's always good to check in, you know, and keep each other accountable and keep each other encouraged.
33:36
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I agree with that.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, she'd been open about some of the, I mean, truly just the struggles that she would do.
33:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it was postpartum and depression.
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it was just growing up as a child star.
33:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, when we up in the, the limelight and the spotlight, I've never, honestly, I don't ever envy.
33:50
[SPEAKER_00]: People who grew up like that, Justin Bieber talked about this a lot, just the way that you are in the spotlight at age 13, 14, 15, and those formative years, man.
33:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's tough.
34:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the just pressure that you feel, basically as celebrity as a teenager.
34:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And then in your young 20s and everything, and then every little mistake you make is just so pinpointed.
34:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard.
34:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So she had really tough life.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: There were some sexual abuse claims in there as well with other people.
34:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I just really hard stuff.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So very sad tragic.
34:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Another big thing, this week, kind of, change in the subject here.
34:23
[SPEAKER_00]: The Lakers, the Los Angeles Lakers, the most famous basketball team.
34:28
[SPEAKER_00]: in the world in America obviously they sold surprisingly that now this may not seem like a big deal to you but I'm going to tell you why it kind of should be one is it's who it sold to this is going to be Josh Kushner and the former Disney CEO he just left the CEO ship in the spring Bob Eiger who's probably the most famous CEO and everybody's like what's Bob Eiger going to do now that he's not running Disney.
34:51
[SPEAKER_00]: it turns out he's going to buy them the lakers they bought the team for an astonishing record-breaking 12 and a half billion dollars.
34:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an insane amount.
35:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And Josh Custer, by the way, yes, he is the brother of Jared Custer.
35:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about him on this podcast before.
35:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He's out there in the Trump administration as it ends at on-boy with Steve Woodcoff and goes shooting deals in Gaza and across the world, even with Iran, some of that.
35:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So they are brothers, they both come from a very prominent
35:19
[SPEAKER_00]: and Josh Kushner, Bob Iger, together, they're compiling this money with their investment firm $12.5 billion.
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: They made that offer kind of out of nowhere to Mark Walter, who was the current owner.
35:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That man just bought the team last year, last summer for $10 billion, so he already turned a $2.5 billion profit.
35:36
[SPEAKER_00]: a little problem here.
35:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what are your thoughts here on that Jonathan?
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, I mean, you know, I do follow NBA.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I am a sports guy.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I used to coach college tennis, but I still follow all sports.
35:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I just hope Bob I agree does better with the Lakers and he did with Disney.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I can say.
35:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, well, he's first into, I mean, his first run at Disney was actually really good.
35:57
[SPEAKER_00]: He got him in a such a great place, saw the over saw the marble stuff, then he left, appointed a bad successor and had to come back and try to rescue it.
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of did, but also there's been some, some big hits and misses over the last couple years as a Star Wars fan, now we'd have some pushback.
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's perfect.
36:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say the guy who they bought it from Mark Walter.
36:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also the owner of the LA Dodgers.
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it was also part owner of Chelsea in the UK Premier League of soccer.
36:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like the reason he was willing to do the sale, even though he just bought the team a year ago, is because he's being investigated for some insurance loan fraud and all of that.
36:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, his companies are being investigated.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And Wall Street Journal New York Times, they both reported this week that he was
36:36
[SPEAKER_00]: looking for some fast cash and liquid of these start paying these things off.
36:40
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a potential he will face some sort of jail time, but he has not been charged yet, so he's still in the free there, but he's sold part of Chelsea this week as well.
36:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so the lakeers, it sounds like he needs cash fast, because he's found himself in a pretty tough spot, which is why when I go and Kushner raid this random call last week, he was like, yeah, you know what, I will sell it to you for two and a half billion dollar profit.
36:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I can do some of that cash.
37:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So kind of interesting.
37:02
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, tuning in.
37:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that real fast.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: This weekend is the Freedom 250 Grand Prix.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be saying, well, what is that?
37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's new.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a race around literally the Washington DC mall.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Indie car racing.
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They have set up a 1.7 mile track around the White House capital building, the Washington Monument.
37:25
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably going to look pretty cool.
37:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The cars are going to zoom by these insane monuments.
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously just iconic structures that we all know and see all the time.
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: The race is set for one PME soon on Sunday, it can be watched on Fox, Jonathan, do you have any interest in this race?
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, interestingly enough, I'm not really a NASCAR guy because I feel like it's just, I'm probably, you know, makes some people mad here, but I don't know, I just, I can't watch somebody drive in circles for 300 laps.
37:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So this, though, this is interesting, because I really, I have a love for Formula One.
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: in this kind of a context, it's going to be very interesting because this is not like your typical, this is not like your typical race, right?
38:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would be, I'm very interested to see how to look on TV, like how eye-teaching is it going to be.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it sounds really great.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just really tweeting in for a bit.
38:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I probably will too.
38:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's literally no other sports on this weekend.
38:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So golf is pretty much over.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: football is a couple weeks out.
38:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So like maybe on Sunday, I will turn it on, you know, take a little nap in the middle of the race and then catch the very end.
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I do feel like it's probably a nightmare for everybody who lives in Washington, D.C. or works there and is trying to like go between all these buildings.
38:41
[SPEAKER_00]: That's got to be just a big nightmare.
38:43
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's all we got today for checking in tune in.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I will mention real fast the mailbag.
38:47
[SPEAKER_00]: As always, you can send us questions, you know, thoughts or things that we discussed today, even what are your thoughts on our discussions today.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe your green, maybe your disagree, maybe you disagree,
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: to send us.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us know.
38:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Or send us fun stories.
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: We can share.
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Topic ideas.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Anything for future episodes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can always send those to culture brief at dinnisonform.org, email us there, follow us on Instagram at CultureRepodcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Leave comments for us.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Other than that, guys.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's it for today's episode.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Jonathan.
39:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Join me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This was a fantastic time with you, grateful for your time today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having me on and you know, here in feedback and seeing how our listeners and readers take this information and use it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you guys for joining us and have a great weekend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Culture Brief, a Dinnison Forum podcast, all articles and videos mentioned in this episode will be linked in these show notes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to help us reach more believers with truth and today's chaotic culture, please share this podcast around and leave a five star rating and review.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All episodes are produced by Sound of a Rose.
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[SPEAKER_00]: For more information, you can visit Soundofa Rose.com.
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[SPEAKER_00]: See ya next Thursday.