Latest / Deep Transformation / The Path of Wisdom, Heart, and Ethics: A Developmental Perspective on the Journey of Awakening (Part 3)

Transcript

The Path of Wisdom, Heart, and Ethics: A Developmental Perspective on the Journey of Awakening (Part 3) · Deep Transformation

0:00
Dear,
0:01
dear
0:01
listener,
0:02
hi,
0:02
this
0:02
is
0:02
John
0:03
Duque.
0:03
I
0:03
want
0:03
to
0:03
ask
0:04
a
0:04
favor
0:04
of
0:04
you.
0:05
If
0:05
you
0:05
like
0:05
the
0:06
podcast
0:06
Deep
0:07
Transformation
0:07
and
0:08
you're
0:08
getting
0:08
a
0:08
lot
0:08
out
0:08
of
0:08
it,
0:09
could
0:09
you
0:09
please
0:09
help
0:10
us
0:10
by
0:10
going
0:10
to
0:11
wherever
0:11
you
0:11
get
0:11
your
0:12
podcast,
0:12
it's
0:12
a
0:13
Spotify
0:13
or
0:13
Apple
0:14
or
0:14
wherever
0:14
it
0:15
is,
0:15
and
0:15
write,
0:16
write
0:16
a
0:16
review
0:16
that
0:17
would
0:17
really
0:17
help
0:17
us
0:17
to
0:17
get
0:18
this
0:18
out.
0:18
We
0:18
really
0:19
believe
0:19
in
0:19
what
0:19
we're
0:19
doing
0:20
and
0:20
we're
0:20
really
0:20
praying
0:21
and
0:21
hoping
0:21
this
0:21
is
0:22
helping
0:22
people
0:22
and
0:22
being
0:23
part
0:23
of
0:23
the
0:23
solution.
0:24
So
0:24
if
0:24
you
0:24
could
0:24
do
0:24
that,
0:25
it
0:25
would
0:25
be
0:25
greatly
0:26
appreciated
0:27
by
0:27
Roger,
0:27
myself
0:28
and
0:28
our
0:28
team.
0:29
God
0:29
bless.
0:29
Thank
0:29
you.
0:30
Welcome
0:31
to
0:31
part
0:31
three
0:31
of
0:32
our
0:32
conversation
0:33
with
0:33
Kimberly
0:33
Lafferty.
0:34
As
0:34
we
0:35
correct
0:35
the
0:35
misconception
0:36
of
0:36
the
0:37
Bodhisattva
0:38
or
0:38
Awakened
0:38
One
0:39
bow
0:39
is
0:40
not
0:40
that
0:40
the
0:40
Bodhisattva
0:41
no
0:41
longer
0:42
suffers
0:42
along
0:43
with
0:43
the
0:43
rest
0:43
of
0:43
us,
0:44
but
0:44
that
0:44
through
0:44
our
0:45
changes,
0:45
the
0:46
world
0:46
changes
0:46
and
0:47
there
0:47
is
0:47
less
0:47
suffering.
0:52
Welcome
0:53
to
0:53
Deep
0:53
Transformation.
0:55
Self,
0:55
society,
0:56
spirit,
0:57
life
0:58
enhancing,
0:59
paradigm
0:59
rattling
1:00
conversations
1:01
with
1:01
cutting
1:01
edge
1:02
thinkers,
1:02
contemplatives
1:04
and
1:04
activists
1:05
with
1:05
Dr.
1:06
Roger
1:06
Walsh
1:07
and
1:07
John
1:07
Dupuy
1:08
join
1:09
us
1:09
in
1:09
the
1:09
evolutionary
1:10
fast
1:10
lane
1:11
as
1:11
we
1:11
take
1:12
a
1:12
deep
1:12
dive
1:12
into
1:14
transformational
1:15
practice.
1:16
Peak
1:17
experience,
1:18
profound
1:19
understanding,
1:21
powerful
1:22
contribution.
1:26
Kimberly,
1:27
what
1:27
actually
1:27
changes
1:28
as
1:28
people
1:28
mature?
1:29
I
1:29
mean,
1:29
I'm
1:30
thinking
1:30
of
1:30
the
1:31
various
1:32
capacities
1:33
seem
1:33
to
1:33
come
1:34
online
1:35
in
1:36
sequential
1:37
ways,
1:38
and
1:38
you
1:39
emphasized
1:39
one
1:40
of
1:40
them
1:40
earlier.
1:40
That
1:40
is
1:41
the
1:41
capacity
1:41
for
1:42
a
1:43
larger
1:43
perspective
1:44
encompassing
1:45
more
1:46
and
1:46
more
1:46
people
1:47
in
1:47
one's
1:48
scope
1:49
of
1:49
care
1:49
and
1:49
concern,
1:50
and
1:51
not
1:51
only
1:51
spatial,
1:52
but
1:52
also
1:52
temporal.
1:53
That
1:53
is
1:53
the
1:53
capacity
1:54
to
1:55
take
1:55
more
1:55
generations
1:56
into
1:56
account.
1:57
For
1:57
example,
1:57
the
1:58
beautiful
1:58
Native
1:58
American
1:59
tradition
1:59
of
2:00
think
2:00
of
2:00
the
2:00
effects
2:00
of
2:00
what
2:01
you're
2:01
doing
2:01
on
2:01
the
2:01
seventh
2:02
generation.
2:03
So,
2:04
but
2:04
what
2:04
are
2:04
some
2:05
of
2:05
the
2:05
other
2:05
capacities
2:06
that
2:06
tend
2:07
to
2:07
come
2:07
online
2:08
as
2:09
people
2:10
mature?
2:11
Fun.
2:12
Oh,
2:12
my
2:12
favorite
2:12
subject.
2:13
Okay,
2:14
so
2:14
when
2:14
I'm
2:14
speaking,
2:15
I'm
2:15
speaking
2:15
from
2:15
both
2:16
what
2:16
we've
2:16
seen
2:16
in
2:17
developmental
2:17
research
2:18
and
2:18
what
2:18
we
2:19
also
2:19
have
2:19
learned.
2:20
What
2:20
I've
2:20
learned
2:20
learned
2:20
in
2:20
the
2:21
traditions
2:21
as
2:21
well.
2:22
So
2:23
one
2:23
of
2:23
the
2:24
most
2:24
exciting
2:25
moments
2:25
that
2:26
happens
2:26
in
2:27
our
2:27
developmental
2:28
journey
2:28
and
2:29
our
2:29
story
2:29
of
2:29
development
2:30
as
2:30
an
2:30
individual
2:31
and
2:31
as
2:31
a
2:31
collective
2:32
is
2:32
when
2:33
I
2:33
mentioned
2:33
it
2:33
first.
2:34
First
2:34
one
2:34
wakes
2:35
up
2:35
to
2:35
metacognition,
2:36
which
2:36
is
2:36
just,
2:36
oh,
2:37
I
2:37
can
2:37
think
2:37
about
2:37
my
2:37
thinking,
2:38
I
2:38
can
2:38
think
2:38
about
2:39
my
2:39
feeling
2:39
and
2:40
I
2:40
can
2:40
think
2:40
about
2:41
my
2:41
behavior.
2:41
And
2:41
that
2:42
is
2:42
something
2:43
that's
2:44
essential
2:44
and
2:45
very,
2:45
very
2:46
important
2:46
in
2:46
order
2:47
for
2:47
what
2:47
then
2:48
comes
2:48
later.
2:49
Once
2:49
that
2:50
capacity
2:50
is
2:51
grown,
2:51
we
2:52
start
2:52
to
2:52
see,
2:53
we
2:53
get
2:54
the
2:54
capacity
2:54
to
2:54
be
2:54
able
2:55
to
2:55
start
2:55
to
2:55
see
2:55
ourselves
2:56
as
2:57
parts.
2:58
Parts
2:58
is
2:58
the
2:59
most
2:59
common
2:59
word
3:00
used.
3:00
Or
3:01
sub
3:01
personalities
3:01
or
3:02
archetypes.
3:03
It's
3:03
like
3:03
our
3:03
thinking
3:04
and
3:04
our
3:05
feeling
3:05
and
3:05
our
3:05
behavior
3:06
kind
3:06
of
3:06
devolves
3:07
into.
3:07
Yeah,
3:08
Persona.
3:08
Part
3:09
I've
3:09
got
3:09
an
3:10
inner
3:10
family
3:10
system,
3:11
for
3:11
example,
3:11
is
3:12
a
3:12
common
3:12
way
3:13
to
3:13
think
3:13
about
3:13
it.
3:14
I've
3:14
got.
3:14
There's
3:15
an
3:15
inner
3:16
child
3:16
or
3:17
I
3:17
see
3:18
my
3:19
cognitive
3:20
structure
3:21
as
3:21
something
3:21
from
3:22
afar.
3:22
I
3:22
can
3:22
start
3:23
to
3:23
actually
3:23
look
3:24
at
3:24
my
3:24
own
3:25
system
3:25
on
3:26
the
3:26
inside
3:27
and
3:27
see
3:27
a
3:27
system
3:28
there.
3:28
Right.
3:28
See
3:29
an
3:29
internal
3:29
family
3:30
system
3:30
of
3:30
some
3:31
form.
3:31
And
3:32
this
3:32
is
3:32
beautiful.
3:32
And
3:33
much
3:33
of
3:33
our
3:33
therapy
3:34
is
3:34
focused
3:34
on
3:34
this.
3:35
Parts
3:35
work,
3:35
shadow
3:36
work.
3:36
All
3:36
of
3:36
this
3:36
is
3:37
developmentally
3:38
appropriate
3:38
for
3:38
that
3:39
stage.
3:39
We
3:39
are.
3:40
And
3:41
then
3:41
something
3:41
amazing
3:42
happens.
3:42
And
3:42
this
3:42
where
3:43
we
3:43
see.
3:44
So
3:44
far
3:45
from
3:45
what
3:45
we
3:45
can
3:46
tell,
3:46
the
3:47
numbers
3:47
start
3:47
to
3:47
drop
3:47
off.
3:48
Actually,
3:48
after
3:49
this,
3:50
there's
3:50
a
3:50
capacity
3:51
that
3:52
seems
3:52
to
3:52
require
3:53
or
3:55
be
3:55
supported
3:56
strongly
3:57
by
3:57
the
3:57
spiritual
3:57
training
3:58
that
3:58
we're
3:58
talking
3:58
about.
3:59
And
3:59
this
3:59
is
3:59
when
4:00
we
4:00
awaken
4:00
to
4:02
individual
4:02
construction,
4:03
we
4:03
would
4:04
say,
4:04
or
4:05
the
4:05
understanding
4:06
that
4:06
in
4:06
the
4:07
moment
4:09
I
4:09
am
4:09
projecting.
4:10
We'll
4:11
say
4:11
I
4:11
am
4:12
creating.
4:14
I
4:14
am
4:15
somehow,
4:15
in
4:16
a
4:16
mysterious
4:16
way,
4:17
my
4:17
karma,
4:18
my
4:18
past,
4:18
my
4:19
construct
4:19
activation,
4:20
my
4:20
genetics,
4:21
my
4:22
whatever.
4:22
It's
4:23
still.
4:23
So
4:23
much
4:23
of
4:24
it
4:24
is
4:24
still
4:24
a
4:24
mystery.
4:24
Right?
4:25
But
4:25
in
4:25
this
4:26
moment,
4:27
what
4:27
I'm
4:27
looking
4:28
at
4:29
are
4:29
thoughts,
4:31
things
4:31
are
4:31
thoughts,
4:32
and
4:32
thoughts
4:32
are
4:32
things.
4:33
And
4:34
somehow
4:34
figuring
4:35
out
4:35
the
4:35
confusion
4:36
of
4:36
that.
4:36
This
4:36
is
4:37
the
4:37
first
4:37
thing
4:37
we
4:37
see.
4:37
There's
4:38
a
4:38
huge
4:38
shift
4:39
when
4:39
we
4:39
go
4:39
into
4:39
what
4:39
we
4:39
call
4:40
meta
4:40
aware
4:40
or
4:40
fifth
4:41
person
4:41
perspective.
4:42
And
4:42
it's
4:43
marked
4:43
by
4:43
this
4:44
ability
4:45
of
4:46
in
4:46
the
4:46
moment
4:47
to
4:47
start
4:47
to
4:47
catch
4:47
your
4:48
projections.
4:48
And
4:48
when
4:49
I'm
4:49
saying
4:49
projection,
4:50
I
4:50
mean
4:50
like
4:50
small
4:50
p
4:51
projection.
4:51
I
4:51
mean,
4:52
I'm
4:53
looking
4:53
at
4:53
an
4:53
idea
4:54
in
4:54
my
4:54
mind,
4:55
and
4:56
my
4:56
mind
4:56
is
4:56
more
4:56
than
4:57
here.
4:57
Right.
4:57
My
4:57
mind
4:58
is
4:58
actually
4:58
everywhere.
4:59
Right.
4:59
So
5:00
this
5:00
is
5:00
the
5:00
first
5:01
marker
5:01
that
5:01
we
5:01
see
5:02
is
5:02
that
5:02
capacity.
5:03
First.
5:04
It
5:04
happens
5:05
over
5:05
time,
5:07
but
5:07
in
5:07
the
5:08
start
5:08
to
5:08
in
5:08
the
5:08
moment,
5:09
catch
5:09
your
5:09
projections,
5:10
Catch
5:11
that.
5:11
The
5:11
movie
5:12
that
5:12
I'm
5:12
watching
5:13
a
5:13
movie
5:14
right
5:15
from
5:15
there.
5:16
And
5:16
that's
5:17
a
5:17
big
5:17
shift.
5:17
It's
5:18
like
5:18
moving
5:18
from
5:19
understanding
5:19
social
5:20
construction
5:20
to
5:20
understanding
5:21
individual
5:21
construction.
5:24
It's
5:24
radical.
5:25
I
5:25
mean,
5:25
this
5:25
is
5:26
a
5:26
big
5:26
developmental
5:28
confusion.
5:29
Sometimes
5:30
that
5:30
takes
5:30
a
5:30
lot
5:30
of
5:31
support.
5:31
And
5:32
this
5:32
is
5:32
where
5:32
I
5:32
say
5:32
we
5:32
see
5:33
numbers
5:33
drop
5:33
off.
5:34
Because
5:34
if
5:34
there
5:34
isn't
5:35
a
5:35
spiritual
5:36
community
5:36
supporting
5:36
that
5:37
or
5:37
a
5:37
psychological
5:38
community
5:38
supporting
5:39
that,
5:39
or
5:40
some
5:40
sort
5:40
of
5:41
ideally,
5:41
combination
5:42
of
5:42
the
5:42
two
5:43
supporting
5:44
this
5:44
awakening,
5:45
shall
5:45
we
5:45
say,
5:46
or
5:46
this
5:46
realization,
5:47
shall
5:47
we
5:47
say,
5:48
it
5:48
can
5:48
be
5:48
very
5:49
difficult
5:50
or
5:51
tentative.
5:51
It
5:52
doesn't
5:52
have
5:52
somebody
5:53
to
5:53
reinforce
5:54
that
5:54
structure
5:55
that's
5:55
developing.
5:56
It's
5:56
hard
5:56
to
5:56
hang
5:57
on
5:57
to.
5:58
Yes,
5:58
indeed,
5:59
John.
5:59
Thank
5:59
you.
5:59
It's
6:00
like
6:00
to
6:00
make
6:00
it
6:00
real,
6:01
it's
6:02
like
6:02
waking
6:03
up
6:03
in
6:03
a
6:03
lucid
6:03
dream
6:05
and
6:05
realize
6:05
you're
6:06
dreaming.
6:08
And
6:10
if
6:10
there
6:10
is
6:10
the
6:11
support
6:11
there
6:12
and
6:12
the
6:12
structure
6:13
there,
6:13
when
6:13
that
6:14
happens,
6:14
it
6:14
can
6:14
be
6:15
very
6:15
beautiful
6:15
and
6:15
very
6:16
sweet,
6:16
as
6:16
it
6:16
was
6:16
for
6:17
me.
6:17
And
6:18
which
6:18
is
6:18
why
6:18
I'm
6:18
so
6:19
grateful
6:19
the
6:20
community.
6:20
I
6:20
had
6:21
to
6:21
say,
6:22
yes,
6:22
you're
6:22
on
6:22
track.
6:23
You're
6:23
not
6:23
crazy.
6:25
And
6:25
it's
6:26
not
6:26
Kimberly,
6:26
who's
6:27
the
6:27
one
6:27
doing
6:27
the
6:27
projecting.
6:28
It's
6:28
very
6:29
easy
6:29
to
6:29
fall
6:29
into
6:30
narcissism
6:30
and,
6:31
you
6:31
know,
6:31
to
6:31
have
6:31
these
6:32
fall
6:32
off
6:33
one
6:33
side
6:33
of
6:33
the
6:33
cliff
6:33
or
6:34
the
6:34
other,
6:34
to
6:34
stay
6:35
grounded
6:36
in
6:36
kindness
6:37
and.
6:37
And
6:38
your
6:38
spouse
6:39
and
6:39
your
6:39
relationships
6:40
and.
6:41
Right.
6:42
So
6:42
that's
6:42
what
6:43
we
6:43
see
6:43
as
6:44
we
6:44
move,
6:45
as
6:45
we
6:45
stabilize
6:46
that
6:46
realization,
6:47
as
6:47
we
6:47
stabilize
6:48
that
6:49
and
6:49
figure
6:50
out,
6:50
okay,
6:51
well,
6:51
what
6:51
does
6:51
that
6:51
imply?
6:53
If
6:53
it's
6:54
a
6:54
dream,
6:55
what
6:55
does
6:56
that
6:56
mean?
6:56
What
6:57
does
6:57
that
6:57
imply?
6:58
We
6:58
start
6:59
to
6:59
get
6:59
used
7:00
to
7:00
the
7:00
dream
7:02
and
7:02
we
7:02
start
7:02
to
7:03
get
7:03
used
7:03
to
7:04
how
7:05
it
7:05
is
7:06
that
7:06
this
7:07
functionality
7:07
of
7:07
thoughts
7:08
or
7:08
things
7:08
is
7:08
happening.
7:09
And
7:09
we
7:10
start
7:10
to
7:10
expand
7:11
our
7:11
capacities.
7:12
And
7:12
it's
7:13
interesting,
7:13
we
7:13
see
7:14
next
7:14
people
7:15
tend
7:15
to
7:15
get
7:15
very
7:16
active.
7:16
It's
7:16
like
7:17
you
7:17
get
7:17
this
7:17
realization
7:18
and
7:19
it's
7:19
almost
7:19
like
7:19
poured
7:20
into
7:20
you.
7:20
Like
7:20
you
7:20
were
7:21
saying,
7:21
John.
7:21
It's
7:21
like
7:21
this
7:22
lineage
7:23
almost
7:23
poured
7:23
into
7:24
you
7:24
get
7:24
this
7:24
realization,
7:26
get
7:26
used
7:26
to
7:27
it
7:27
for
7:27
a
7:27
while
7:27
and
7:27
then
7:27
you
7:28
get
7:28
busy
7:28
with
7:28
it.
7:29
It's
7:29
like,
7:29
well,
7:29
how
7:30
can
7:30
I
7:30
then
7:31
if
7:32
I've
7:32
deconstructed
7:33
everything,
7:33
how
7:33
can
7:34
I
7:34
now
7:34
reconstruct
7:35
using
7:36
my
7:36
gifts
7:37
and
7:37
my
7:37
passions
7:38
to
7:40
somehow
7:40
put
7:40
together
7:41
a
7:41
world
7:41
that
7:42
is
7:42
ethically
7:43
charged
7:43
and
7:44
you
7:44
might
7:44
not
7:44
ever
7:44
use
7:44
that
7:45
word,
7:45
but
7:45
it's
7:46
going
7:46
to
7:46
bring
7:47
goodness,
7:48
truth
7:48
and
7:48
beauty,
7:48
you
7:49
know,
7:49
that
7:49
is
7:49
going
7:49
to
7:50
somehow.
7:50
And
7:50
it
7:50
could
7:51
be
7:51
being
7:51
a
7:51
quiet,
7:52
good
7:52
neighbor.
7:53
It
7:53
doesn't
7:53
mean
7:54
you're
7:54
famous.
7:54
It
7:55
doesn't
7:55
mean
7:56
any
7:56
of
7:57
that,
7:57
you
7:57
know,
7:58
but
7:58
you're
7:58
driven
7:59
by
7:59
this.
8:01
This
8:01
desire
8:02
to
8:02
act
8:03
and
8:03
to
8:03
be,
8:04
you
8:04
know,
8:05
to
8:05
do
8:05
more
8:06
than
8:06
be.
8:06
Actually.
8:07
What
8:07
we
8:07
notice
8:08
here
8:08
too,
8:09
Roger,
8:09
is
8:10
the
8:10
objects
8:11
that
8:11
one
8:12
speaks
8:12
about
8:13
changes.
8:14
You
8:14
mentioned
8:15
the
8:15
temporal
8:15
aspect
8:16
of
8:16
it.
8:16
Our
8:17
objects
8:17
get
8:18
really,
8:18
really
8:18
big.
8:19
So
8:19
it's
8:19
not
8:20
just
8:20
me
8:20
and
8:20
my
8:21
family
8:21
and
8:22
me
8:22
and
8:22
my
8:22
tribe
8:23
and
8:23
me
8:23
and
8:23
humans
8:24
and
8:24
me,
8:24
even
8:25
me
8:25
and
8:25
animals,
8:26
but
8:26
objects
8:26
get
8:27
to
8:27
be
8:28
time
8:28
and
8:28
space
8:29
beyond
8:29
time,
8:30
you
8:31
know,
8:31
beyond
8:32
this
8:32
current
8:33
moment,
8:33
impacting
8:34
the
8:34
past,
8:35
impacting
8:35
the
8:36
future
8:36
and
8:36
everything
8:37
we
8:37
do.
8:38
Objects
8:39
start
8:39
to.
8:41
Language
8:41
changes
8:42
dramatically
8:43
where
8:44
we
8:44
start
8:44
to
8:44
understand
8:45
that
8:45
we
8:45
are
8:45
a
8:46
wave
8:46
in
8:46
the
8:46
ocean,
8:47
right?
8:48
And.
8:48
And
8:48
we
8:48
are
8:49
one
8:49
in
8:49
the
8:49
many.
8:51
And
8:52
this
8:52
connection
8:53
between
8:53
form,
8:55
relative
8:56
reality,
8:57
and
8:58
let's
8:58
say
8:58
emptiness
8:59
or
8:59
ultimate
8:59
reality
9:01
is
9:01
continuing
9:02
to
9:02
evolve.
9:03
And
9:04
how
9:04
did
9:05
this
9:05
Blank
9:05
screen.
9:06
And
9:06
how
9:06
does
9:06
the
9:06
paint
9:07
work
9:07
together?
9:07
And
9:07
this
9:08
becomes
9:08
something
9:09
that
9:09
is
9:09
felt.
9:10
It's
9:11
beyond
9:11
concept.
9:13
It's
9:14
beyond
9:15
really
9:16
thought.
9:16
It's
9:16
something
9:16
that's
9:17
experienced
9:17
on
9:18
a
9:18
day
9:18
to
9:18
day
9:18
basis.
9:20
We
9:20
do
9:20
see
9:22
an
9:22
increase
9:23
when
9:23
things
9:23
are
9:24
healthy
9:24
and
9:24
the
9:25
shadow
9:25
work
9:25
has
9:25
been
9:26
done
9:26
and
9:27
is
9:27
continuing
9:28
to
9:28
be
9:28
done
9:28
on
9:29
a
9:29
daily
9:29
basis.
9:30
We
9:30
do
9:30
see,
9:30
I
9:31
mentioned
9:31
before,
9:31
an
9:32
increase
9:32
of
9:33
compassion,
9:35
an
9:35
increase
9:35
of
9:36
joy.
9:38
Not
9:38
always
9:39
right.
9:39
But
9:40
these
9:40
are
9:40
words
9:40
and
9:41
languages
9:41
that
9:43
we
9:43
begin
9:43
to
9:43
see
9:44
much
9:44
more
9:45
of.
9:45
Ultimate
9:46
love.
9:47
Yeah.
9:48
And
9:48
there's
9:49
a
9:49
simplicity
9:50
too
9:51
that
9:52
starts
9:52
to
9:52
come
9:52
up
9:53
when
9:53
we
9:53
see
9:54
data
9:54
coming
9:55
in
9:55
from
9:55
these
9:56
later
9:56
stages.
9:58
It's
9:58
not
9:58
wordy,
10:00
unlike
10:00
what
10:00
I'm
10:00
doing
10:01
right
10:01
now.
10:01
Right.
10:01
There's
10:01
a.
10:02
There's
10:02
a
10:02
real
10:02
simplicity
10:05
and
10:05
poignancy
10:07
that
10:07
we
10:07
also
10:08
see
10:08
start
10:09
to
10:09
come
10:09
in.
10:10
Oh,
10:11
that's
10:11
beautiful.
10:11
It's
10:12
not
10:12
oversight
10:13
at
10:13
all
10:13
really.
10:14
Beautifully
10:14
still
10:15
includes
10:15
the
10:15
family
10:16
and
10:16
going
10:17
on
10:17
to
10:17
the
10:17
holidays
10:18
and
10:18
all
10:19
of
10:19
that.
10:19
It's
10:20
a
10:20
balloon,
10:21
it's
10:21
not
10:21
a
10:21
ladder.
10:22
You
10:23
know.
10:23
And
10:23
ideally
10:24
we
10:24
get
10:24
better
10:25
at
10:25
that.
10:26
I
10:27
do
10:27
need
10:27
it
10:27
better.
10:28
Yeah,
10:29
yeah.
10:30
And
10:30
the
10:30
metaphor
10:31
of
10:31
the
10:31
balloon
10:31
is
10:32
a
10:32
very
10:32
beautiful
10:32
one.
10:33
And
10:33
it
10:33
is
10:33
so
10:34
easy
10:34
to
10:34
fall
10:35
into
10:35
latter
10:35
metaphors
10:36
and
10:36
higher
10:37
as
10:37
opposed
10:37
to
10:38
lower
10:38
as
10:38
opposed
10:38
to,
10:39
you
10:39
know,
10:40
better.
10:40
You
10:40
used
10:41
a
10:41
much
10:41
better
10:41
term
10:42
later.
10:43
And
10:43
you're
10:43
also
10:43
using
10:44
the
10:44
metaphor
10:44
of
10:45
a
10:45
balloon.
10:46
Kimberly,
10:47
I
10:47
just
10:47
want,
10:47
I
10:48
want
10:48
to
10:48
note
10:48
that
10:49
at
10:50
all
10:50
times
10:50
you
10:51
are
10:51
this
10:51
wonderful
10:52
bubbling
10:52
fountain
10:53
of
10:53
Shakti,
10:54
the
10:54
divine
10:54
energy.
10:55
Energy
10:56
coming
10:57
lit
10:58
up
10:58
even
10:58
more
10:59
and
10:59
transmitted
11:00
even
11:00
more
11:00
of
11:00
it
11:00
as
11:01
we
11:01
got
11:01
into
11:01
development.
11:02
So
11:02
I
11:03
understand,
11:03
I
11:04
love
11:04
this
11:04
is
11:04
incredibly
11:05
important
11:06
topic
11:06
and
11:07
it's.
11:07
I
11:07
view
11:08
it
11:08
as
11:08
one
11:08
of
11:08
the
11:08
main
11:09
contributions
11:09
of
11:10
psychology
11:11
in
11:11
the
11:11
last
11:11
50
11:12
years
11:12
and
11:13
just
11:13
feels
11:14
oh
11:15
so
11:15
vital
11:16
and
11:17
adding
11:18
a
11:18
developmental
11:18
understanding
11:19
and
11:20
even
11:20
pointing
11:20
to
11:21
the
11:21
possibility
11:21
that
11:22
there
11:22
are
11:22
developmental
11:23
stages
11:23
beyond
11:24
what
11:24
we
11:24
take
11:24
to
11:24
be
11:25
the
11:25
ceiling
11:25
of
11:25
possibilities
11:26
is
11:26
an
11:27
enormously
11:28
important
11:29
recognition
11:30
and
11:30
one
11:30
which
11:31
makes
11:31
the
11:32
greater
11:32
individual
11:33
and
11:33
collective
11:34
realization
11:34
of
11:35
those
11:35
potentials
11:36
more
11:37
available.
11:37
See,
11:37
feels
11:38
like
11:38
a
11:38
crucial
11:38
first
11:39
step.
11:39
You
11:40
just
11:40
outlined
11:41
some
11:41
of
11:41
the
11:42
capacities
11:43
that
11:44
emerge
11:44
and
11:44
come
11:45
online
11:45
at
11:46
subsequent
11:47
stages.
11:47
And
11:48
I
11:48
want
11:48
to
11:49
ask
11:49
you
11:49
to
11:49
go
11:50
further
11:50
with
11:50
that.
11:50
Let
11:51
me
11:51
suggest
11:51
a
11:51
couple
11:51
of
11:52
other
11:52
things
11:52
that
11:53
be
11:54
great
11:54
to
11:54
have
11:54
you
11:54
talk
11:55
about.
11:55
One
11:55
it
11:56
seems
11:56
like
11:56
is,
11:56
and
11:57
you've
11:57
kind
11:57
of
11:57
implied
11:58
this
11:58
is
11:59
the
11:59
capacity
12:00
for
12:01
a
12:01
more
12:01
fluid
12:02
and
12:03
multi
12:03
level
12:04
perspective
12:05
taking.
12:06
Yeah.
12:07
Seems
12:07
crucial.
12:08
I'd
12:08
love
12:08
to
12:08
hear
12:08
you
12:09
talk
12:09
about
12:09
that.
12:12
Well,
12:12
it's
12:12
interesting.
12:13
And
12:13
one
12:13
thing
12:13
I
12:13
want
12:14
to
12:14
say
12:14
too
12:14
as
12:14
we
12:15
get
12:15
into
12:15
development
12:16
is
12:16
there
12:16
are
12:16
some
12:16
good
12:17
critiques
12:17
of
12:17
development
12:18
and
12:18
they
12:18
have
12:19
their
12:19
Point.
12:20
Right.
12:20
And
12:21
I
12:21
just
12:21
want
12:21
to
12:22
mention
12:22
the
12:22
elephant
12:23
in
12:23
the
12:23
room.
12:23
And
12:24
I
12:24
get
12:24
you
12:24
and
12:24
I
12:24
get
12:24
it.
12:25
And
12:25
any
12:26
sort
12:26
of
12:26
smacking
12:27
of,
12:28
you
12:28
know,
12:29
hierarchy
12:30
or
12:30
better
12:30
than
12:30
or
12:31
anything
12:31
like
12:31
that,
12:32
we
12:32
just
12:32
want
12:32
to
12:32
acknowledge
12:33
that
12:33
that
12:33
might
12:34
come
12:34
into
12:34
the
12:34
field.
12:34
And
12:35
that's
12:35
not
12:35
what
12:35
we're
12:35
talking
12:36
about
12:36
here.
12:37
So
12:37
always
12:37
with
12:38
developmental
12:38
ethics,
12:39
we're
12:40
all
12:40
of
12:40
them.
12:40
We
12:41
are
12:41
all,
12:41
each
12:42
one
12:42
of
12:42
them,
12:42
a
12:42
cosmos
12:43
inside
12:44
of
12:44
us.
12:44
And
12:44
so
12:46
knowing
12:46
that,
12:47
we
12:47
also
12:47
notice
12:49
as
12:49
cognitive
12:50
humans
12:50
that
12:51
beings
12:52
seem
12:52
to
12:53
theoretically
12:54
fall
12:54
into
12:55
these
12:55
patterns
12:55
of
12:56
becoming
12:56
that
12:56
go
12:57
throughout
12:57
humanity,
12:58
throughout
12:58
our
12:58
history.
12:59
And
12:59
so
12:59
that's
12:59
what
13:00
we're
13:00
talking
13:00
about
13:00
with
13:00
development.
13:01
They're
13:01
these
13:02
patterns
13:02
that
13:03
very
13:03
good
13:03
researchers
13:04
over
13:04
time.
13:05
And
13:05
Roger,
13:06
thank
13:06
you
13:06
for
13:06
saying
13:06
that
13:07
about
13:07
developmental
13:07
theory.
13:08
Coming
13:08
from
13:08
you,
13:08
that
13:09
means
13:09
a
13:09
lot.
13:09
And
13:10
that
13:10
was
13:10
my
13:10
experience
13:11
of
13:11
it
13:11
too.
13:12
It's
13:12
an
13:13
incredibly
13:14
important
13:15
field
13:16
that
13:17
we
13:17
want
13:17
to
13:17
understand
13:18
is
13:19
not
13:19
hierarchical,
13:21
it's
13:21
a
13:21
balloon.
13:22
And
13:22
just
13:23
like
13:23
I
13:23
think
13:24
differently
13:25
than
13:25
my
13:25
13
13:25
year
13:26
old
13:26
son
13:27
and
13:28
the
13:28
mistakes
13:29
that
13:29
I
13:29
do
13:29
in
13:30
parenting,
13:30
which
13:30
I
13:30
do
13:31
do,
13:32
always
13:33
come
13:33
back
13:33
to
13:34
for
13:34
me,
13:34
if
13:34
it's
13:34
outside
13:35
of
13:35
any
13:35
trauma,
13:35
I'm
13:36
having
13:36
a
13:36
developmental
13:37
mistake
13:37
I'm
13:37
making.
13:38
Like
13:38
I
13:38
am
13:38
not
13:39
matching
13:39
and
13:39
meeting
13:41
where
13:41
my
13:41
son
13:41
is
13:42
coming
13:42
from.
13:42
My
13:42
reality
13:43
is
13:43
not
13:43
attuned
13:44
to
13:44
his
13:44
reality.
13:45
Right.
13:46
And
13:46
so
13:46
now
13:47
I'm
13:47
not
13:47
any
13:47
better
13:48
than
13:48
him,
13:49
obviously.
13:50
Right.
13:50
So
13:51
it's
13:51
not
13:51
a
13:51
better
13:52
than
13:52
even
13:52
being
13:53
later.
13:53
So
13:53
we'll
13:54
say
13:54
that
13:54
there
13:56
perspective
13:57
taking
13:58
we
13:58
notice
13:59
and
14:00
you
14:00
know,
14:00
developmental
14:01
research
14:01
in
14:01
its
14:02
field
14:02
is
14:02
its
14:02
own
14:03
subcultures
14:03
and
14:04
it's
14:04
prone
14:05
to
14:05
its
14:05
own
14:05
biases
14:06
and
14:06
who
14:06
takes
14:07
the
14:07
assessments.
14:08
And
14:09
we
14:09
understand
14:09
all
14:10
that.
14:10
But
14:10
what
14:10
we
14:10
tend
14:11
to
14:11
notice
14:11
is
14:11
that
14:12
an
14:12
interest
14:12
in
14:13
development
14:13
and
14:13
an
14:14
interest
14:14
in
14:14
the
14:15
fact
14:15
that
14:15
there
14:15
are
14:16
multiple
14:16
perspectives
14:17
out
14:17
there,
14:18
that
14:19
it
14:19
is
14:20
a
14:20
realization,
14:21
it
14:21
is
14:21
an
14:21
awakening.
14:22
Awakenings
14:23
happen
14:23
all
14:24
throughout
14:24
our
14:24
lifespan,
14:25
in
14:25
my
14:25
opinion,
14:26
all
14:26
throughout
14:26
our
14:26
lifespan
14:27
these
14:27
awakenings
14:28
happen.
14:30
It
14:30
comes
14:30
at
14:30
the
14:30
end
14:31
of
14:31
fourth
14:31
person
14:31
perspective
14:32
where
14:32
we
14:33
begin
14:33
to
14:33
see
14:34
not
14:35
outside
14:35
of
14:35
us,
14:36
but
14:36
inside
14:36
of
14:36
us.
14:37
There's
14:37
this
14:37
echo
14:38
between
14:39
inside
14:39
and
14:40
outside
14:40
that
14:40
starts
14:41
to
14:41
happen
14:41
where
14:42
we
14:42
start
14:42
to
14:42
see
14:43
that
14:43
there's
14:44
multiple
14:44
perspectives
14:45
out
14:45
there.
14:46
And
14:46
I
14:46
probably
14:47
got
14:47
that
14:47
earlier.
14:48
Okay,
14:48
like
14:49
there's
14:49
my
14:50
person
14:50
who
14:50
votes
14:51
differently
14:51
from
14:51
me.
14:52
Isn't
14:52
bad,
14:52
isn't
14:53
wrong.
14:53
It's
14:53
different.
14:54
You
14:55
know,
14:55
different
14:56
religions
14:56
are
14:56
okay,
14:57
different
14:57
ways
14:58
of
14:58
what
14:58
happens
14:59
in
14:59
your
14:59
bedroom.
14:59
All
14:59
of
15:00
that
15:00
is
15:00
different
15:01
and
15:01
multiple
15:01
perspective
15:02
and
15:02
is
15:03
good
15:03
and
15:03
okay
15:04
and
15:04
is
15:04
fine.
15:05
But
15:05
I
15:05
start
15:05
to
15:06
see
15:06
that
15:06
that's
15:06
happening
15:07
inside
15:07
of
15:08
me.
15:09
And
15:11
again
15:11
it's
15:12
an
15:12
echo
15:12
inside
15:13
and
15:13
out.
15:13
And
15:14
when
15:14
that
15:14
Happens
15:16
a
15:16
whole
15:17
opportunity
15:18
opens
15:18
up
15:20
of
15:20
creativity
15:21
and
15:22
creation
15:22
of
15:23
how
15:23
what
15:24
is
15:24
going
15:24
on
15:24
inside
15:25
with
15:25
my
15:25
own
15:25
inner
15:26
voices
15:26
and
15:26
the
15:26
multiple
15:27
perspectives
15:27
that
15:28
I
15:28
can
15:28
take
15:29
from
15:29
inside
15:29
is
15:30
echoing
15:30
what's
15:31
happening
15:31
outside.
15:31
And
15:32
it
15:32
increases
15:32
my
15:32
ability
15:33
to
15:33
have
15:34
compassion.
15:35
It
15:35
increases
15:36
my
15:36
ability
15:36
to
15:36
understand
15:37
where
15:37
someone
15:37
else
15:37
is
15:37
coming
15:38
from.
15:38
And
15:39
importantly
15:40
this
15:40
skill
15:40
set
15:41
increases
15:41
my
15:42
capacity
15:42
for
15:42
what
15:43
we
15:43
call
15:43
skillful
15:44
means
15:44
to
15:45
be
15:46
able
15:46
to
15:46
zoom
15:46
into
15:46
a
15:47
situation
15:47
and
15:47
see
15:47
it
15:48
from
15:48
close
15:48
in
15:49
and
15:49
zoom
15:49
out
15:50
of
15:50
a
15:50
situation
15:50
and
15:51
see
15:51
it
15:51
from
15:51
some
15:51
distance
15:52
and
15:53
zoom
15:53
into
15:53
a
15:53
situation
15:54
and
15:54
see
15:54
it
15:54
from
15:55
this
15:55
perspective
15:55
from
15:56
right
15:56
up
15:56
close.
15:57
Like
15:57
what's
15:57
the
15:57
issue
15:58
right
15:58
up
15:58
close.
15:59
How
15:59
are
15:59
you
15:59
feeling
16:00
in
16:00
this
16:00
moment?
16:00
What's
16:00
actually
16:01
happening
16:02
to
16:02
zooming
16:02
out
16:03
even
16:03
in
16:03
time
16:03
and
16:03
space
16:04
and
16:04
seeing
16:05
this
16:06
came
16:06
from
16:06
the
16:06
past
16:07
and
16:07
this
16:07
is
16:07
going
16:08
to
16:08
cause
16:08
this
16:08
in
16:08
the
16:08
future.
16:09
And
16:09
let
16:09
me
16:09
get
16:09
some
16:09
perspective
16:10
on
16:10
that.
16:10
So
16:10
this
16:11
multiple
16:11
perspective
16:12
taking
16:12
happens
16:13
at
16:13
a
16:13
lot
16:13
of
16:14
levels
16:15
with
16:15
outside
16:15
people,
16:16
with
16:16
my
16:16
inside
16:17
parts
16:17
and
16:18
voices
16:18
and
16:19
ideas
16:19
and
16:19
also
16:20
in
16:21
time
16:21
and
16:21
space
16:22
as
16:22
our
16:22
capacities
16:23
increase.
16:24
It's
16:24
interesting,
16:25
Roger,
16:26
we're
16:26
seeing
16:27
in
16:29
the
16:29
developmental
16:30
research
16:30
too.
16:32
John,
16:32
you'll
16:33
be
16:33
interested
16:33
in
16:33
this
16:34
how
16:34
what
16:34
we
16:34
call
16:35
in
16:35
the
16:36
yoga
16:37
philosophy
16:38
siddhis,
16:38
it's
16:38
S
16:39
I
16:39
D
16:39
D
16:39
H
16:40
I.
16:40
If
16:40
you
16:41
were
16:41
to
16:41
do
16:41
a
16:41
transliteration,
16:42
it
16:42
means
16:43
powers.
16:43
How
16:44
these
16:44
something
16:45
that
16:45
was
16:45
considered
16:46
almost
16:46
transpersonal
16:48
or
16:49
transhuman
16:50
powers
16:51
start
16:52
to
16:52
come
16:52
on
16:53
and
16:54
I
16:54
think,
16:54
you
16:55
know,
16:55
I
16:55
don't
16:55
mean
16:56
magical,
16:56
but
16:56
I
16:57
do
16:57
mean
16:58
almost
16:58
a
16:58
precognitive
16:59
capacity
17:01
to
17:01
see
17:01
into
17:02
the
17:02
future.
17:03
It
17:03
might
17:03
come
17:03
in
17:04
dreams,
17:04
it
17:04
might
17:04
come
17:05
in
17:05
meditation,
17:05
it
17:05
might
17:06
come
17:06
in
17:06
just
17:06
pattern
17:07
making
17:07
and
17:07
insight.
17:08
We
17:09
see
17:09
a
17:10
real
17:10
capacity
17:11
to
17:11
empathy
17:12
like
17:12
the
17:12
capacity
17:13
for
17:13
empathy.
17:13
True
17:14
empathy
17:14
increases
17:14
a
17:15
really
17:15
almost
17:15
in
17:16
a
17:17
mysterious
17:17
way.
17:18
You,
17:18
you
17:18
know,
17:18
when
17:18
you're
17:19
in
17:19
the
17:19
presence
17:19
of
17:19
somebody
17:20
like
17:20
that
17:20
who
17:20
really
17:21
almost
17:21
can
17:21
see
17:22
into
17:22
your
17:22
soul
17:23
is
17:23
something.
17:23
Sometimes
17:24
we
17:24
say
17:24
that
17:25
capacity
17:25
increases.
17:27
Yeah,
17:28
lots
17:29
of
17:29
ways.
17:30
That's
17:30
beautiful.
17:30
John,
17:31
I
17:31
have
17:31
umpteen
17:31
questions,
17:32
but
17:32
you've
17:32
been
17:33
very,
17:33
you've
17:33
been
17:34
very
17:36
impatient
17:36
in
17:37
letting
17:37
me
17:37
ask
17:37
most
17:38
of
17:38
them,
17:38
so
17:39
why
17:39
don't
17:39
you
17:39
jump
17:39
in?
17:40
Well,
17:40
maybe
17:40
just
17:41
to
17:41
comment
17:41
on
17:41
the
17:42
last
17:42
thing
17:42
we're
17:42
talking
17:42
about
17:43
that
17:43
these
17:43
higher
17:43
levels
17:44
of
17:44
development
17:45
but
17:45
not
17:45
only
17:45
do
17:46
the
17:46
new
17:46
capacities
17:47
emerge
17:49
and
17:49
pretty
17:49
amazing
17:50
things,
17:50
but
17:50
also
17:51
new
17:51
challenges,
17:52
new
17:52
problems
17:53
are
17:53
created
17:53
that
17:53
we
17:53
never
17:54
had
17:54
to
17:54
deal
17:54
with
17:55
before.
17:55
Yes,
17:56
yes.
17:56
I
17:56
guess
17:57
it
17:57
creates
17:57
the
17:57
need
17:57
for
17:57
the
17:58
next
17:58
level
17:58
of
17:58
development
17:59
or
18:00
the
18:00
further
18:01
expansion
18:01
of
18:01
the
18:01
balloon
18:02
or
18:02
the,
18:02
the
18:03
next
18:03
circle
18:04
that
18:05
grows
18:05
ever
18:05
larger.
18:06
Yeah,
18:07
that.
18:08
Thank
18:08
you
18:08
for
18:08
saying
18:09
that.
18:09
There's
18:09
confusions
18:10
all
18:10
the
18:10
way
18:10
up
18:10
and
18:10
all
18:11
the
18:11
Way
18:11
down.
18:11
You
18:12
know,
18:12
that
18:12
happens,
18:14
especially
18:14
considering
18:15
we
18:15
tend
18:15
to
18:15
be
18:15
talking
18:15
about
18:16
this
18:16
particular
18:17
moment
18:17
in
18:17
our
18:17
developmental
18:18
journey,
18:19
which
18:19
is
18:19
often
18:20
akin
18:20
to
18:20
kind
18:21
of
18:21
the
18:21
big
18:21
awakening
18:22
or
18:22
understanding
18:23
things
18:24
are
18:25
coming
18:25
from
18:25
me
18:26
and
18:26
not
18:26
the
18:26
way
18:26
I
18:27
thought
18:27
before,
18:27
but
18:28
not
18:28
the
18:28
me
18:28
that
18:28
I
18:28
thought
18:29
was
18:29
there.
18:29
Understanding
18:30
individual
18:30
projection
18:31
and
18:31
how
18:31
what
18:31
I'm
18:32
looking
18:32
at
18:33
is
18:34
a
18:34
particular
18:35
construct,
18:36
you
18:36
know,
18:37
this
18:37
particular
18:39
shift
18:39
that
18:40
happens.
18:41
One
18:41
of
18:41
the
18:42
confusions
18:42
that
18:43
we
18:43
often
18:44
see
18:44
there.
18:45
If
18:46
there
18:46
isn't
18:46
a
18:46
spiritual
18:47
psychological
18:48
community
18:48
of
18:49
support
18:49
around
18:49
this,
18:50
it's
18:50
often,
18:50
well,
18:51
what
18:51
matters?
18:52
What
18:52
does
18:52
it
18:52
matter?
18:53
Why
18:54
should
18:54
I.
18:55
Let
18:55
me
18:55
just
18:55
sort
18:56
of
18:56
rest
18:57
in
18:58
the
18:58
beingness
18:58
of
18:59
it
18:59
all,
19:00
and
19:00
I
19:00
don't
19:00
actually
19:01
need
19:01
to
19:01
do
19:01
anything.
19:03
And
19:04
I
19:04
personally
19:05
fall
19:05
prey
19:05
to
19:06
that
19:06
myself,
19:07
sort
19:07
of.
19:08
I've
19:08
come
19:08
to
19:08
see,
19:09
just
19:09
personally,
19:11
santosha
19:12
in
19:12
Sanskrit,
19:12
or
19:12
contentment
19:14
can
19:14
actually
19:14
be
19:14
an
19:15
obstacle
19:15
for
19:15
me.
19:16
Yeah.
19:17
Easily
19:17
becomes
19:18
complacency.
19:19
Yeah,
19:19
it
19:19
does.
19:20
And
19:20
I
19:21
just
19:21
admit
19:21
that
19:22
among
19:22
friends
19:22
here.
19:23
So,
19:23
yes,
19:25
there
19:26
are
19:26
confusions,
19:27
or
19:28
is
19:28
sometimes
19:29
what
19:29
it's
19:29
called,
19:29
you
19:29
know?
19:30
Yes,
19:31
challenges.
19:31
But
19:32
it
19:32
never
19:32
stops.
19:33
You
19:33
know,
19:33
we
19:33
are
19:34
never
19:34
at
19:34
a
19:34
final
19:35
enlightenment.
19:35
Let's
19:35
just
19:36
put
19:36
it
19:36
that
19:36
way.
19:36
Yeah.
19:37
I
19:37
just
19:37
want
19:37
to.
19:38
That
19:38
feels
19:38
so
19:39
important
19:39
to
19:39
acknowledge,
19:40
Kimberly,
19:40
and
19:41
I'm
19:41
so
19:41
glad
19:41
you
19:42
said
19:42
it,
19:42
because
19:42
there
19:42
is
19:43
this
19:43
myth,
19:44
historically
19:46
and
19:46
contemporarily,
19:48
that
19:48
if
19:49
you
19:49
reach
19:49
a
19:49
certain
19:50
realization,
19:51
basically
19:53
you
19:53
coast
19:53
thereafter.
19:54
Yeah,
19:55
I
19:55
wish.
19:56
Yeah.
19:57
I
19:57
mean,
19:57
we
19:57
all.
19:59
Yeah.
19:59
And
20:00
not
20:00
to
20:00
say
20:00
things
20:01
don't
20:01
get.
20:02
I
20:02
don't
20:02
know.
20:02
What
20:03
do
20:03
you
20:03
say,
20:03
Roger?
20:03
John,
20:04
you
20:04
know,
20:04
I.
20:05
It's
20:05
not
20:05
that
20:06
things
20:06
don't
20:07
change
20:07
for
20:08
the
20:08
better,
20:09
if
20:09
I
20:09
can
20:09
use
20:09
that
20:10
word.
20:10
I
20:10
mean,
20:10
I.
20:11
In
20:12
all
20:12
honesty,
20:13
my
20:13
life
20:13
is
20:14
amazing.
20:15
You
20:15
know,
20:15
I
20:16
am
20:16
so
20:16
fortunate.
20:17
I.
20:19
It's
20:19
extraordinary.
20:20
And
20:20
I
20:20
point
20:20
to
20:21
my
20:22
dharma
20:22
practice
20:23
and
20:23
the
20:23
benefit
20:23
I
20:23
have
20:24
of
20:24
studying
20:24
with
20:24
the
20:24
teachers
20:25
that
20:25
I
20:25
did
20:26
and
20:26
getting
20:27
the
20:27
support
20:27
that
20:27
I
20:28
needed
20:28
when
20:28
I
20:29
needed
20:29
it.
20:29
And
20:30
I
20:32
yelled
20:32
at
20:32
my
20:32
son
20:33
two
20:33
days
20:33
ago,
20:34
and
20:34
I.
20:34
You
20:35
know,
20:35
and
20:35
I
20:35
had
20:36
a
20:36
moment
20:36
that
20:37
I
20:37
regretted
20:37
that
20:38
I
20:38
needed
20:38
to
20:38
repair
20:39
and
20:39
I
20:39
needed
20:39
to
20:39
clean
20:40
up.
20:40
And
20:41
this
20:41
is
20:41
just
20:41
part
20:42
of
20:42
the
20:42
zest
20:42
of
20:43
humanity,
20:43
is
20:43
we're
20:44
embodying
20:45
our
20:45
own
20:45
becoming
20:46
in
20:46
a
20:46
system.
20:47
We're
20:47
not
20:48
alone.
20:48
We're
20:49
in
20:49
a
20:49
system
20:49
with
20:50
other
20:50
people
20:50
and
20:50
with
20:51
cultures
20:51
and
20:51
society.
20:52
And
20:52
the
20:53
more
20:53
we
20:53
can.
20:53
And
20:54
I
20:55
can
20:55
step
20:56
into
20:56
that
20:57
out
20:57
of
20:57
my
20:57
complacency
20:58
and
20:58
my
20:58
little
20:59
bliss
20:59
bubble,
21:01
the
21:01
more
21:01
challenged
21:02
I
21:02
might
21:02
be
21:02
in
21:03
the
21:03
moment,
21:03
but
21:03
also
21:03
the
21:03
more
21:04
I
21:04
grow
21:04
and
21:05
the
21:05
happier
21:06
I
21:06
am.
21:06
Honestly,
21:07
you
21:07
know,
21:08
and
21:08
the
21:08
enlightenment
21:09
in
21:09
this
21:09
situation
21:10
is
21:10
manifested
21:11
not
21:11
by
21:11
the
21:11
fact
21:11
that
21:12
you
21:12
yelled
21:12
at
21:12
your
21:13
Son.
21:13
But
21:14
the
21:14
repair.
21:15
Yes.
21:15
Therein
21:16
is
21:16
the
21:16
enlightened
21:17
behavior.
21:17
I
21:17
mean,
21:17
we're
21:18
all
21:18
going
21:18
to
21:18
do
21:18
that,
21:19
yell
21:19
at
21:19
our
21:19
kids
21:20
or
21:20
make
21:20
those
21:20
moments,
21:21
you
21:21
know,
21:21
when
21:21
we're
21:21
just
21:21
very,
21:22
very
21:22
human.
21:23
But
21:23
it's
21:23
the
21:23
repair
21:24
that's
21:24
so
21:24
essential.
21:25
Yes,
21:26
absolutely.
21:27
Absolutely.
21:27
And
21:27
I
21:28
wouldn't.
21:28
That's.
21:29
That's
21:29
exactly
21:30
it.
21:30
And
21:30
because
21:30
we
21:31
want
21:31
to
21:31
be
21:31
involved
21:31
in
21:32
the
21:32
world
21:32
and
21:32
not
21:33
locking
21:33
ourselves
21:33
away
21:34
in
21:34
a
21:34
cave
21:34
somewhere.
21:35
And
21:35
so
21:36
we're
21:36
going
21:36
to
21:36
be
21:36
challenged,
21:37
and
21:37
we
21:38
need
21:38
to
21:38
build
21:38
up
21:38
resiliency
21:39
and
21:39
we
21:39
need
21:40
to
21:40
apply
21:40
developmental
21:41
understanding
21:42
to
21:42
ourselves
21:43
and
21:44
others
21:45
so
21:45
that
21:45
we
21:45
can
21:45
respond
21:46
most
21:46
skillfully
21:47
and
21:47
compassionately
21:48
in
21:48
the
21:48
moment.
21:49
Beautifully
21:49
said.
21:50
And.
21:51
And
21:52
we've
21:52
had
21:52
the
21:52
privilege
21:53
of
21:53
doing
21:53
a
21:54
series
21:54
of
21:54
dialogues,
21:55
currently
21:55
are
21:55
doing
21:56
a
21:56
series
21:56
of
21:56
dialogues
21:57
with
21:57
Hamid
21:57
Ali,
21:58
founder
21:58
of
21:59
the
21:59
Diamond
21:59
Approach.
22:00
Just
22:00
an
22:01
extraordinary
22:02
gifted
22:03
practitioner
22:04
and
22:04
teacher.
22:04
And
22:06
he
22:06
has
22:06
a
22:06
beautiful
22:07
perspective.
22:07
Whereas
22:08
most
22:08
traditions
22:09
have
22:09
the
22:09
assumption
22:10
that
22:10
there
22:11
is
22:11
some
22:11
final
22:12
state
22:13
which
22:14
is
22:14
the
22:14
goal,
22:15
and
22:15
it
22:15
is
22:16
the
22:16
final
22:17
state.
22:17
But
22:18
his
22:18
perspective
22:19
is
22:19
a
22:19
much
22:19
more
22:19
profound
22:20
one,
22:20
which
22:20
is
22:20
quite
22:21
rare.
22:21
You
22:22
see
22:22
it
22:22
a
22:22
bit
22:22
in
22:22
Dogen,
22:23
for
22:23
example,
22:24
maybe
22:25
Ramakrishna,
22:26
some.
22:26
But
22:26
it's
22:27
rare
22:27
that
22:27
each
22:28
opening
22:29
or
22:29
awakening
22:30
can
22:31
be
22:31
the
22:31
portal
22:31
for
22:32
further
22:32
openings
22:33
and
22:33
awakenings
22:33
and
22:34
realizations.
22:35
That's
22:35
right.
22:35
Absolutely.
22:36
And
22:37
even
22:37
emptiness
22:38
or
22:38
ultimate
22:38
reality
22:39
itself
22:39
comes
22:39
in
22:40
a
22:40
series
22:40
of
22:40
evolving
22:41
realizations
22:42
and
22:43
evolution.
22:43
And
22:43
according
22:44
to
22:44
Hamid,
22:45
you
22:45
get
22:45
to
22:45
the
22:46
mountaintop,
22:47
you
22:47
realize
22:48
the
22:48
clear
22:48
light
22:48
or
22:49
emptiness
22:49
or
22:50
ultimate
22:50
realization.
22:51
And
22:51
a
22:52
lot
22:52
of
22:52
people
22:52
want
22:52
to
22:53
stay
22:53
there,
22:53
you
22:54
know,
22:54
why
22:54
wouldn't
22:55
you?
22:55
But
22:55
the
22:56
work
22:56
really
22:56
can.
22:57
Right.
22:57
Consists
22:58
in
22:58
come
22:58
bringing
22:59
it
22:59
back
22:59
down
23:00
in
23:00
the
23:00
descent
23:01
and
23:01
bringing
23:01
it
23:02
back
23:02
into
23:02
the
23:02
marketplace.
23:03
Right.
23:03
With
23:03
open
23:04
heart
23:04
and
23:04
open
23:05
hands
23:05
and
23:06
bringing
23:06
it
23:06
home.
23:07
Yes.
23:08
It's
23:08
really,
23:08
really
23:09
good.
23:09
Yes.
23:10
And
23:10
I'm
23:10
grateful.
23:11
I
23:11
mean,
23:11
believe
23:12
me,
23:12
I
23:12
am
23:13
far
23:13
from
23:13
perfect,
23:13
as
23:13
my
23:14
spouse
23:15
can
23:15
tell
23:15
you,
23:16
but
23:16
there's
23:16
something
23:17
about
23:17
leaning
23:18
into
23:18
that
23:19
and
23:19
all
23:19
of
23:19
my
23:19
messiness
23:20
and
23:20
all
23:20
of
23:21
our
23:21
messiness
23:21
and
23:22
even
23:22
the
23:22
messiness
23:22
of
23:23
our.
23:24
We're
23:25
in
23:25
America
23:25
right
23:25
now.
23:26
I
23:26
know
23:26
we
23:26
are
23:26
listening
23:26
to
23:27
this
23:27
all
23:27
over
23:27
the
23:27
world.
23:28
Those
23:28
of
23:28
us
23:28
who
23:28
are
23:29
here
23:29
in
23:29
America
23:30
right
23:30
now.
23:30
It
23:30
can
23:31
be
23:31
a
23:31
practice,
23:32
you
23:32
know,
23:32
to
23:33
see
23:33
what's
23:33
happening
23:33
on
23:34
our
23:34
stage.
23:34
But
23:34
even
23:35
that
23:35
itself,
23:36
even
23:37
that
23:37
itself,
23:37
if
23:38
we
23:38
can
23:38
lean
23:38
into
23:38
the
23:39
imperfection
23:40
of
23:40
it,
23:40
if
23:41
we
23:41
can
23:41
lean
23:41
into
23:42
the
23:43
messiness
23:43
of
23:44
it,
23:44
there's
23:45
somehow
23:46
this
23:46
path
23:46
through
23:47
with
23:48
delight
23:49
and
23:49
with
23:49
joy
23:50
and
23:50
with
23:51
humor
23:52
and
23:52
with
23:52
kindness
23:53
that
23:54
we
23:54
can
23:54
find
23:54
our
23:54
way
23:55
through
23:55
this.
23:56
Because
23:56
what
23:57
connects
23:57
us
23:58
all
23:58
is
23:59
our
24:00
luminous,
24:00
aware
24:01
consciousness.
24:02
The
24:02
definition
24:02
of
24:03
mind
24:03
in
24:03
Tibetan
24:04
Buddhism
24:04
is
24:04
simply
24:04
Saunang.
24:06
It's
24:06
translated
24:07
as
24:07
luminous
24:08
and
24:08
aware.
24:09
Or
24:09
sometimes
24:09
it's
24:10
translated
24:10
as
24:11
clear
24:11
and
24:11
knowing.
24:12
Right.
24:12
And
24:13
we're
24:13
all
24:13
this.
24:13
If
24:14
we
24:14
can
24:14
connect
24:15
to
24:15
each
24:15
other
24:16
through
24:16
this
24:16
and
24:17
see
24:17
that
24:17
in
24:18
each
24:18
other,
24:18
I
24:19
think
24:19
that
24:19
we'll
24:19
be
24:19
able
24:19
to
24:20
find
24:20
our
24:20
way
24:20
through
24:21
this
24:22
messiness.
24:23
And
24:23
the
24:24
paradox
24:25
is
24:26
that
24:27
finding
24:27
our
24:27
way
24:28
through
24:29
may
24:29
not
24:30
look
24:30
like
24:31
everything's
24:31
wonderful.
24:34
Yeah.
24:34
Yes.
24:35
No,
24:35
indeed
24:36
not.
24:37
No.
24:37
It's
24:38
admitting
24:39
when
24:39
we
24:40
yell
24:40
at
24:40
her
24:40
son
24:41
or.
24:41
Yeah.
24:42
Getting
24:42
into
24:43
the.
24:43
The
24:43
zesty
24:44
messiness
24:44
of
24:45
it
24:45
as
24:45
well.
24:46
Yeah.
24:46
And
24:47
in
24:47
the
24:47
bigger
24:47
picture,
24:48
it
24:48
may
24:48
be
24:48
that
24:49
we
24:49
really
24:49
do
24:49
create
24:50
a
24:50
global
24:50
catastrophe
24:51
for
24:52
ourselves,
24:53
and
24:53
it
24:53
will
24:54
still
24:54
be
24:54
important
24:55
to
24:55
do
24:55
whatever
24:56
we
24:56
can
24:56
as
24:56
well
24:57
as
24:57
we
24:57
can,
24:57
with
24:58
the
24:59
understanding
25:00
that
25:00
these
25:00
priceless
25:01
traditions
25:02
have
25:02
given
25:02
us.
25:03
And
25:03
these
25:03
catastrophes
25:04
are
25:04
happening
25:04
as
25:05
we
25:05
speak.
25:05
You
25:06
know,
25:06
I
25:06
don't
25:06
have
25:06
to
25:06
mention
25:06
all
25:06
the
25:07
places
25:07
in
25:07
the
25:07
world,
25:07
but.
25:08
But
25:08
I
25:08
deeply
25:09
feel
25:09
that
25:10
stuff.
25:10
And
25:10
that's.
25:12
That's.
25:12
That's
25:13
a
25:13
hard.
25:15
Thank
25:16
you
25:16
for
25:16
feeling
25:17
that.
25:18
And
25:19
that
25:19
is
25:19
something
25:19
we
25:20
see
25:20
too,
25:20
is
25:21
the
25:21
individual's
25:22
capacity
25:22
to
25:22
be
25:22
able
25:23
to
25:23
feel
25:23
the
25:23
whole
25:24
is
25:24
something
25:25
that
25:25
we
25:25
also
25:25
see.
25:26
Come
25:27
up.
25:27
I
25:28
want
25:28
to
25:28
underline,
25:29
too,
25:29
something
25:29
Roger,
25:30
you
25:30
said,
25:30
because
25:30
the
25:31
value
25:31
of
25:31
the
25:31
traditions,
25:32
I
25:32
mean,
25:32
that's
25:33
something
25:33
that
25:33
I
25:33
stand
25:34
on
25:34
with
25:34
wisdom.
25:35
And
25:35
with
25:36
the
25:36
old
25:37
baby
25:37
with
25:37
the
25:37
bath
25:38
water
25:38
metaphor,
25:38
we
25:39
don't
25:39
want
25:39
to
25:39
throw
25:39
out
25:39
the
25:39
baby
25:40
with
25:40
the
25:40
bathwater,
25:41
but
25:42
these
25:42
traditions,
25:42
I
25:43
believe,
25:43
are
25:43
pointing
25:44
us
25:44
to
25:45
where
25:46
we're
25:46
headed
25:47
as
25:47
humans.
25:48
So
25:49
in
25:49
a
25:49
simple
25:50
way,
25:51
if
25:51
we
25:52
buy
25:52
into
25:52
the
25:52
story
25:53
of
25:53
evolution,
25:54
you
25:54
know,
25:54
on
25:55
this
25:55
planet,
25:55
on
25:56
this
25:56
Earth,
25:56
there
25:56
were
25:57
apes,
25:57
right?
25:57
And
25:58
at
25:58
some
25:58
point
25:58
in
25:59
our
25:59
journey
25:59
of
25:59
evolution,
26:00
human,
26:01
the
26:01
human
26:01
species,
26:02
the
26:02
ape
26:02
species.
26:03
I'm
26:03
super
26:03
simple
26:03
about
26:04
this,
26:04
but
26:04
the
26:04
human
26:04
species
26:05
sort
26:05
of
26:05
branched
26:06
off,
26:06
right.
26:06
And
26:06
became
26:06
its
26:07
own
26:07
species.
26:08
So
26:08
you
26:08
had
26:08
the.
26:09
Whatever
26:10
the
26:10
Latin
26:10
is
26:10
for
26:10
the
26:10
ape
26:11
species.
26:11
And
26:11
the
26:12
human
26:12
species
26:13
became
26:13
humans.
26:14
And
26:15
at
26:15
some
26:15
point,
26:16
the
26:16
traditions
26:16
point
26:17
us
26:17
to.
26:17
And
26:18
also
26:18
developmental
26:19
research
26:20
seems
26:20
to
26:20
be
26:20
pointing
26:21
us
26:21
to
26:21
this
26:21
pattern
26:22
that
26:22
at
26:23
some
26:23
point
26:23
of
26:23
our
26:23
human
26:24
species
26:25
will
26:25
branch
26:25
off
26:25
again
26:26
and
26:27
become
26:27
something
26:28
maybe
26:28
transhuman.
26:30
You
26:30
know,
26:31
if
26:31
we
26:31
follow
26:32
the
26:32
pattern,
26:34
what
26:35
are
26:35
humans
26:35
becoming?
26:37
And
26:37
you're
26:37
bringing
26:38
a
26:38
very
26:38
crucial
26:39
contemplative
26:40
perspective
26:41
to
26:41
the
26:42
idea
26:42
of
26:42
becoming
26:43
transhuman.
26:43
This
26:44
is
26:44
because
26:44
the
26:44
idea
26:45
that
26:45
there's
26:46
a
26:46
possibility
26:46
of
26:47
us
26:47
becoming
26:47
transhuman
26:48
is
26:48
a
26:48
big
26:48
thing
26:49
in
26:49
this.
26:49
In
26:49
the
26:49
techno
26:50
world
26:51
and
26:52
come
26:53
through
26:53
uploading
26:54
ourselves
26:54
to
26:54
silicon
26:55
chips.
26:55
Oh,
26:56
yeah.
26:56
No,
26:56
that's
26:57
not
26:57
what
26:57
I.
26:58
Yeah.
27:00
Or,
27:00
you
27:01
know,
27:01
any
27:02
number
27:02
of
27:02
your
27:02
robotic
27:03
enhancements,
27:04
etc.
27:04
Etc.
27:05
So
27:05
there's
27:05
a
27:06
whole
27:06
world.
27:06
But
27:06
you're
27:06
pointing
27:07
to
27:07
a
27:07
very
27:08
different
27:09
innate
27:09
kind
27:10
of
27:10
transhuman,
27:11
which
27:11
is
27:11
the
27:11
recognition
27:12
of
27:12
that
27:12
which
27:12
we
27:12
always
27:13
already
27:13
are.
27:14
That's
27:14
right.
27:15
And
27:15
always
27:15
have
27:15
been
27:16
and
27:17
never
27:17
could
27:17
have
27:17
find
27:18
because
27:18
we've
27:18
never
27:18
lost
27:19
it.
27:20
Right.
27:21
Beautifully
27:22
said.
27:22
Beautifully
27:23
said.
27:23
Yeah,
27:24
yeah.
27:25
And
27:25
I
27:25
want
27:25
to
27:25
ask
27:25
you
27:26
to.
27:26
To
27:27
say
27:27
more
27:27
about
27:28
the
27:29
kind
27:29
of.
27:29
You're
27:29
pointing
27:30
to
27:30
the
27:30
possible
27:31
that
27:32
as
27:32
people
27:33
go
27:33
through
27:34
these
27:34
stages
27:35
and
27:35
balloons,
27:36
to
27:36
use
27:36
your
27:37
metaphor,
27:38
that
27:38
there's
27:38
a
27:38
kind
27:39
of
27:39
bigger
27:39
picture,
27:40
kind
27:40
of
27:41
the
27:41
cognition,
27:42
the
27:42
thinking
27:42
changes.
27:43
And
27:44
it's
27:45
what
27:46
you're
27:46
pointing
27:47
to
27:47
a
27:47
kind
27:47
of
27:48
bigger
27:48
picture
27:48
perspective.
27:49
And
27:50
I
27:50
think
27:51
pointing
27:51
us
27:52
towards
27:52
a
27:52
more
27:52
systems
27:53
way
27:54
of
27:54
thinking
27:54
as
27:54
opposed
27:55
to
27:55
linear
27:55
logic.
27:56
Could
27:57
you
27:57
say
27:57
something
27:57
about
27:58
that?
27:59
Sure.
28:00
Yeah.
28:00
Well,
28:00
the
28:00
individual
28:01
who.
28:01
I
28:01
mean,
28:02
the
28:02
biggest
28:02
question
28:02
of
28:03
really
28:03
spirituality,
28:04
one
28:04
might
28:04
argue,
28:05
is
28:05
who
28:05
am
28:05
I?
28:06
Yeah.
28:07
Anybody
28:07
ever
28:07
wondered
28:08
who
28:08
am
28:08
I?
28:08
What
28:09
am
28:09
I?
28:09
Right.
28:10
And
28:10
so
28:11
is
28:11
this
28:11
identity
28:12
changes
28:13
and
28:13
how
28:14
one
28:14
answers
28:14
the
28:15
question
28:15
of
28:16
who
28:16
am
28:16
I?
28:17
One
28:18
begins
28:18
to
28:19
think
28:19
of
28:19
oneself
28:21
as
28:21
a
28:21
system.
28:22
I
28:23
am
28:24
involved
28:25
in
28:25
an
28:25
interpenetrating
28:27
system
28:28
with
28:28
others.
28:29
Right.
28:29
In
28:30
a
28:30
collective.
28:31
And
28:31
so
28:31
that's
28:32
one
28:32
thing
28:32
that
28:33
starts
28:33
to
28:33
come
28:33
online
28:34
very
28:34
strongly,
28:35
is
28:35
that
28:36
we
28:36
are
28:37
the
28:37
opposite
28:38
of
28:38
alone.
28:39
And
28:39
we
28:39
are
28:39
interdependent
28:41
on
28:41
each
28:42
other
28:42
for
28:43
our
28:43
meaning
28:43
making
28:44
for
28:44
our
28:44
physicality,
28:45
for
28:46
everything
28:46
else.
28:48
Yeah.
28:49
One
28:49
thing
28:49
I
28:49
wanted
28:50
to
28:50
mention
28:50
too,
28:50
that
28:50
we
28:51
see
28:51
that
28:52
happens
28:52
as
28:53
we
28:53
evolve
28:53
and
28:53
in
28:54
these
28:54
later
28:56
stages
28:56
of
28:56
development,
28:57
what
28:58
people
28:58
report
28:58
and
28:59
show
28:59
indications
29:00
of
29:00
is
29:01
that
29:01
the
29:01
senses
29:02
evolve.
29:03
So
29:03
on
29:03
the
29:03
one
29:03
hand,
29:04
when
29:04
we're
29:04
talking
29:04
about
29:04
emptiness
29:05
and
29:05
ultimate
29:06
reality
29:06
and
29:07
that
29:07
which
29:07
we
29:07
can
29:07
never
29:08
lose
29:09
and
29:09
never
29:09
find,
29:10
you
29:11
know,
29:11
that
29:11
which
29:11
has
29:12
existed
29:12
beyond
29:13
time,
29:13
that's
29:13
ultimate
29:14
reality.
29:15
But
29:15
we
29:15
find
29:15
that
29:16
relative
29:16
reality
29:17
or
29:17
form,
29:18
you
29:18
know,
29:18
thought,
29:18
the
29:19
things
29:19
that
29:19
we
29:19
can
29:19
is
29:20
tangible,
29:21
that
29:21
evolves.
29:22
And
29:23
our
29:23
senses,
29:24
for
29:24
example,
29:24
our
29:25
hearing
29:27
evolves
29:28
in
29:29
these
29:29
later
29:29
stages
29:30
to
29:30
deep
29:30
attunement.
29:32
Attunement
29:33
is
29:33
a
29:33
word
29:33
that
29:33
we
29:34
use
29:34
and
29:34
it's
29:34
a
29:34
sense.
29:35
It's
29:35
like
29:35
the
29:35
sense
29:36
powers
29:37
actually
29:38
evolve
29:38
to.
29:39
Attunement
29:39
is
29:39
like
29:40
a
29:40
deep
29:40
listening.
29:41
A
29:41
deep
29:41
listening
29:42
that
29:42
happens
29:42
inside
29:43
and
29:44
happens
29:44
outside
29:44
too.
29:45
In
29:45
terms
29:46
of
29:46
listening
29:46
to
29:46
the
29:47
whole
29:47
system.
29:47
That's
29:48
amazing.
29:49
We
29:49
notice
29:50
that
29:50
our
29:50
eye
29:51
powers,
29:52
in
29:53
a
29:53
sense,
29:53
our
29:53
sense
29:54
powers
29:54
of
29:54
I
29:54
evolve
29:56
to
29:56
what
29:57
we
29:57
call
29:57
witnessing,
29:59
a
29:59
kind
29:59
of
30:00
capital
30:00
W.
30:01
Powerful
30:02
witnessing,
30:03
the
30:03
ability
30:03
to
30:04
see.
30:06
In
30:06
the
30:06
mystical
30:07
tradition,
30:07
we
30:08
do
30:08
the
30:08
third
30:08
eye
30:09
seeing,
30:09
right.
30:09
To
30:09
be
30:10
able
30:10
to
30:10
see
30:11
through
30:11
time,
30:12
through
30:12
space,
30:13
kind
30:13
of
30:14
suddenly
30:14
have
30:15
these
30:15
flashes
30:16
of
30:16
insight,
30:18
right.
30:18
About
30:19
a
30:20
variety
30:20
of
30:20
things,
30:21
from
30:22
something
30:22
going
30:23
on
30:23
with
30:23
me
30:23
to
30:23
something
30:24
going
30:24
on
30:24
in
30:24
the
30:24
world
30:25
to
30:25
a
30:25
creative
30:26
insight.
30:26
So
30:26
our
30:27
vision,
30:27
our
30:27
capacity
30:28
to
30:28
vision
30:29
expands
30:29
and
30:29
evolves
30:30
to
30:31
something
30:31
else.
30:32
Right.
30:33
And
30:33
then
30:33
even
30:34
our
30:34
capacity
30:35
of
30:35
touch,
30:35
our
30:36
capacity
30:36
of
30:37
embodiment,
30:38
we
30:38
notice
30:39
in
30:40
the
30:40
data
30:40
that's
30:40
coming
30:41
in
30:41
evolves
30:41
where
30:41
people
30:42
start
30:42
describing
30:43
that
30:43
as
30:44
presence.
30:44
We
30:45
could
30:45
say
30:46
capital
30:46
P
30:46
presence.
30:47
This
30:48
embodied,
30:49
this
30:49
evolution
30:50
of
30:50
embodiment
30:52
where
30:53
my
30:53
body
30:54
is
30:54
not
30:54
just,
30:55
you
30:56
know,
30:56
Kimberly,
30:57
of
30:57
a
30:57
certain
30:58
age
30:58
and
30:58
a
30:58
certain.
30:59
Right.
30:59
My
31:00
embodiment
31:00
becomes
31:01
something
31:01
else
31:01
entirely
31:02
where
31:02
almost
31:03
the
31:04
boundaries
31:04
of
31:04
my
31:05
skin
31:05
dissolve
31:05
and
31:06
my
31:06
body
31:06
becomes
31:08
somehow
31:08
even
31:09
interpenetrating
31:10
with
31:10
yours,
31:10
Roger
31:11
and
31:11
yours,
31:12
John,
31:13
and
31:13
even
31:14
the
31:14
people
31:14
who
31:14
are
31:15
listening
31:15
to
31:15
this.
31:16
Somehow
31:18
we're
31:18
connected
31:18
to
31:19
each
31:19
other.
31:19
And
31:20
so
31:20
we're
31:20
noticing
31:21
that
31:21
too,
31:22
in
31:22
terms
31:22
of
31:22
this
31:23
sort
31:23
of.
31:23
What
31:23
I
31:23
mean,
31:24
just
31:24
to
31:24
further
31:24
clarify
31:25
by
31:25
the
31:25
transhuman
31:27
is
31:27
that
31:27
even
31:28
our
31:28
senses
31:29
evolve
31:30
and.
31:30
And
31:30
more
31:31
so.
31:32
Yeah,
31:32
yeah,
31:34
beautiful.
31:35
And
31:35
I
31:36
love
31:36
your
31:36
emphasis
31:37
on
31:37
the
31:38
question,
31:38
who
31:39
am
31:39
I?
31:39
And
31:40
it
31:40
seems
31:41
like
31:41
we've
31:41
been
31:41
suffering
31:42
from
31:42
an
31:42
individual
31:43
and
31:43
collective
31:43
state
31:44
of
31:44
mistaken
31:45
identity.
31:45
Mistaken
31:46
identity
31:47
indeed.
31:48
Yeah,
31:49
yeah.
31:50
There's
31:50
one
31:51
novel
31:52
idea
31:53
and
31:53
theme
31:54
and
31:54
way
31:54
of
31:54
working
31:55
with
31:55
issues
31:56
that
31:56
has
31:56
emerged
31:57
in
31:57
recent
31:57
decades
31:58
which
31:59
seems
31:59
like
31:59
it
32:00
should
32:00
have
32:00
or
32:01
must
32:01
have
32:01
a
32:02
developmental
32:02
perspective,
32:03
and
32:03
that
32:03
is
32:04
the
32:04
emphasis
32:05
on
32:05
polarities.
32:06
Seeing
32:07
things
32:07
in
32:07
terms
32:07
of
32:07
polarities
32:08
rather
32:08
than
32:09
opposites.
32:10
I'd
32:10
love
32:10
to
32:10
hear
32:11
you,
32:11
you
32:12
know,
32:12
enrich
32:13
that
32:13
for
32:13
us.
32:15
Yes,
32:16
there's
32:16
beautiful
32:16
work
32:17
that
32:17
is
32:17
happening
32:18
right
32:18
now
32:18
with
32:18
polarities.
32:19
And,
32:19
you
32:19
know,
32:20
various
32:20
places
32:20
we
32:21
see
32:21
this
32:21
come
32:22
up
32:22
in
32:22
the
32:23
developmental
32:23
story.
32:24
You
32:24
know,
32:25
most
32:25
often
32:26
we
32:26
see
32:26
polarities
32:27
come
32:27
up
32:27
later
32:28
in
32:29
meta
32:29
aware,
32:30
you
32:30
know,
32:30
mature
32:30
fifth
32:31
person
32:31
perspective.
32:31
And
32:32
for
32:32
your
32:32
listeners,
32:33
that
32:34
means
32:34
sort
32:35
of
32:35
you're
32:35
in
32:36
a
32:36
place
32:36
where
32:38
stabilize
32:39
the
32:39
realization
32:39
that
32:40
we've
32:40
been
32:40
talking
32:40
about
32:41
of.
32:41
I'm
32:41
in
32:42
the
32:42
dream.
32:43
Okay,
32:43
I've
32:43
woken
32:44
up
32:44
in
32:44
the
32:44
lucid
32:45
dream.
32:45
I'm
32:46
in
32:46
the
32:46
dream.
32:47
So
32:47
then
32:48
what
32:48
dream
32:48
am
32:48
I
32:48
going
32:49
to
32:49
make?
32:50
And
32:50
how
32:50
is
32:51
this
32:51
for
32:51
the
32:51
benefit
32:52
of
32:52
all,
32:53
not
32:54
just
32:54
for
32:54
myself?
32:55
Otherwise
32:55
there's
32:57
a
32:58
warning
32:58
across
32:58
the
32:59
bow.
32:59
Okay,
32:59
for
33:00
the
33:00
benefit
33:00
of
33:00
all,
33:00
what
33:01
dream
33:01
am
33:01
I
33:01
going
33:01
to
33:02
make
33:02
for
33:02
myself
33:02
and
33:03
others?
33:03
What
33:03
dream
33:04
am
33:04
I
33:04
going
33:04
to
33:04
make
33:04
here?
33:05
And
33:05
we
33:06
start
33:06
to
33:06
see
33:07
how
33:08
constructs
33:09
or
33:09
labels
33:10
or
33:10
qualities,
33:13
how
33:13
it
33:13
is
33:14
that
33:14
relative
33:15
reality
33:16
or
33:16
form,
33:17
how
33:18
it's
33:18
being
33:18
built
33:19
and
33:19
polarities
33:20
naturally
33:20
comes
33:21
up
33:21
as
33:22
a
33:22
way
33:22
to
33:22
start
33:23
describing
33:24
how
33:25
reality
33:25
is
33:26
being
33:26
built
33:26
in
33:27
front
33:27
of
33:27
us
33:27
and
33:28
that
33:28
you
33:28
can't
33:29
have
33:29
one
33:29
without
33:29
the
33:30
other
33:32
somehow.
33:33
This
33:33
good,
33:33
even
33:33
the
33:34
most
33:34
basic
33:34
thing
33:34
of
33:35
this
33:35
good,
33:35
bad,
33:36
or
33:37
any
33:37
other
33:38
polarity
33:38
you
33:38
could
33:38
think
33:39
of,
33:39
they
33:40
can't
33:40
exist
33:41
without
33:42
the
33:42
other
33:45
and
33:46
there's
33:47
this.
33:49
You
33:50
don't
33:50
have
33:50
good
33:50
without
33:50
bad.
33:51
Right.
33:52
You
33:52
don't
33:52
have
33:52
truth
33:52
without
33:53
non
33:53
truth.
33:53
You
33:54
don't
33:54
have
33:55
one
33:55
without
33:56
the
33:56
other.
33:56
And
33:57
we
33:57
start
33:57
to
33:57
see,
33:58
see
33:58
apparently
34:00
how
34:00
these
34:01
are
34:01
the
34:01
building
34:02
blocks
34:03
of
34:03
how
34:04
we're
34:04
constructing
34:05
our
34:05
reality.
34:06
We're
34:06
always
34:06
making
34:07
distinctions
34:08
and
34:08
choices.
34:09
In
34:09
Buddhism,
34:10
there's
34:10
something
34:11
called
34:11
the
34:11
five
34:11
skandas
34:12
and
34:12
the
34:12
five
34:12
heaps.
34:13
And
34:14
discrimination
34:15
is
34:16
an
34:16
essential
34:17
part
34:18
of
34:18
our
34:18
world
34:19
building
34:19
process.
34:20
So
34:20
there's
34:20
something
34:21
in,
34:21
and
34:22
I'm
34:22
not
34:22
a
34:22
polarity
34:22
expert,
34:23
there's
34:23
amazing
34:24
ones
34:24
out
34:24
there
34:24
that,
34:25
that
34:25
are
34:25
doing
34:26
incredible
34:26
work
34:26
on
34:26
this.
34:27
But
34:27
we
34:28
see
34:28
this
34:28
in
34:28
the
34:28
developmental
34:29
data
34:29
that
34:30
this
34:30
does
34:30
become
34:31
a
34:31
fascination,
34:33
you
34:33
know,
34:33
in
34:33
the
34:33
later
34:34
stages
34:34
because
34:34
it's
34:35
how
34:35
we're
34:36
constructing
34:37
literally
34:38
our
34:38
experiences
34:39
of
34:39
reality.
34:40
And
34:41
it's.
34:41
Yeah,
34:41
beautiful
34:42
work
34:42
is
34:42
being
34:43
done
34:43
in
34:43
that
34:43
field
34:43
right
34:43
now.
34:43
And
34:44
there's
34:44
a
34:44
Hegelian
34:46
dynamic,
34:47
that
34:47
these
34:48
two
34:48
polarities
34:48
actually
34:49
go
34:50
to
34:50
a
34:50
higher
34:51
synthesis.
34:52
So
34:52
it's
34:52
not
34:52
just
34:53
good
34:53
and
34:53
bad,
34:54
but
34:54
there's
34:54
something
34:54
in
34:55
between
34:55
that
34:55
takes
34:56
us
34:56
a
34:56
little
34:56
higher
34:56
up
34:57
and
34:57
that
34:58
becomes
34:58
the
34:58
new
34:58
thing
34:58
that
34:59
creates
34:59
a
34:59
new
35:00
polarity
35:00
that
35:00
keeps
35:01
us
35:01
growing.
35:01
There's
35:01
a
35:02
evolution
35:02
there
35:02
of
35:03
polarities,
35:04
which
35:04
is.
35:05
You're
35:05
right,
35:05
there's
35:05
a
35:06
lot
35:06
of
35:06
great
35:06
stuff
35:06
out
35:06
there
35:07
right
35:07
now.
35:07
Exactly.
35:08
So,
35:08
yeah,
35:09
and
35:09
it's
35:09
beautiful,
35:10
beautiful
35:11
work.
35:11
Yeah.
35:12
I
35:12
want
35:12
to
35:13
just
35:14
emphasize
35:15
the
35:15
point
35:16
you
35:16
made,
35:16
Kimberly,
35:17
that
35:18
ideally
35:20
these
35:20
realizations,
35:21
these
35:22
capacities
35:23
are
35:23
used
35:24
for
35:24
the
35:25
welfare
35:25
and
35:25
awakening
35:26
of
35:26
all.
35:26
And
35:26
you've
35:26
brought
35:26
us
35:27
back
35:27
to
35:27
the
35:27
bodhisattva
35:28
for
35:28
aspiration.
35:29
As
35:29
far
35:29
as
35:29
I
35:29
can
35:29
see,
35:30
Bodhisattva
35:31
aspiration
35:32
is
35:32
perhaps
35:32
the
35:32
greatest
35:33
ideal
35:33
the
35:33
human
35:33
mind
35:34
has
35:34
ever
35:34
come
35:34
up
35:34
with.
35:35
It's
35:35
basically
35:36
what
35:36
is
35:37
the
35:37
greatest
35:38
good.
35:39
Deep
35:39
reflection
35:40
on
35:40
that
35:41
and
35:41
a
35:41
realization
35:42
that
35:43
it
35:43
involves
35:43
the
35:44
relief
35:44
of
35:44
suffering,
35:45
the
35:45
enhancement
35:45
of
35:46
well
35:46
being,
35:47
the
35:47
actualization
35:48
of
35:49
capacities
35:49
and
35:50
the
35:50
awakening
35:51
to
35:51
our
35:51
true
35:51
nature,
35:53
not
35:53
just
35:54
as
35:54
you
35:54
were
35:54
pointing
35:54
out
35:55
for
35:55
me,
35:55
but
35:56
for
35:56
all
35:57
conscious
35:58
creatures.
35:59
And
36:00
that
36:00
is
36:00
a
36:01
completely
36:01
encompassing
36:03
and
36:03
completely
36:04
beneficent
36:05
ideal.
36:06
And
36:06
I
36:06
can't
36:07
see
36:07
how
36:07
one
36:08
does
36:08
better
36:08
than
36:09
that.
36:12
Agreed,
36:13
agreed.
36:13
And
36:14
it
36:14
feels
36:16
aligned
36:17
too
36:18
with
36:18
both
36:19
the
36:19
transpersonal.
36:20
Right.
36:21
The
36:21
transpersonal
36:22
for,
36:23
you
36:23
know,
36:24
the
36:24
ultimate
36:26
connection
36:26
we
36:27
have
36:27
beyond
36:28
the
36:28
individual,
36:29
where
36:29
we
36:29
all
36:29
meet
36:30
our
36:30
clear
36:31
light
36:31
and
36:31
also
36:32
the
36:32
personal
36:33
for
36:33
the
36:33
benefit
36:34
of
36:35
just
36:35
humanity
36:36
and
36:37
how
36:37
we
36:37
can,
36:38
in
36:38
this
36:38
schoolhouse
36:39
earth,
36:39
if
36:39
we
36:40
want
36:40
to
36:40
think
36:40
of
36:40
it
36:40
like
36:40
this,
36:41
how
36:41
we
36:41
can
36:41
each
36:42
individually
36:43
raise
36:43
each
36:44
other
36:44
up
36:44
and
36:44
raise
36:45
the
36:45
water,
36:46
you
36:46
know,
36:46
for
36:46
the
36:46
benefit
36:47
of
36:47
all.
36:47
And
36:48
I,
36:49
one
36:49
of
36:49
the
36:49
reasons
36:50
that
36:50
I
36:50
love
36:50
my
36:51
spiritual
36:51
tradition
36:52
so
36:52
much
36:52
and
36:52
I'M
36:53
so
36:53
grateful
36:53
for
36:53
it
36:54
is
36:55
we
36:55
don't
36:56
do
36:56
it
36:56
alone.
36:57
Like,
36:57
bodhichitta
36:58
taps
36:58
us
36:59
deeply
36:59
into
37:01
the
37:01
invisible
37:01
realms.
37:02
Right
37:03
into.
37:04
It's
37:04
impossible
37:05
that
37:06
an
37:06
individual.
37:07
An
37:07
individual
37:08
person
37:09
could
37:09
make
37:09
a
37:09
difference.
37:10
But
37:10
when
37:10
I
37:10
am
37:10
papped
37:11
into
37:12
my
37:12
ultimate
37:13
nature,
37:13
I'm
37:13
tapped
37:14
into
37:14
how
37:15
I'm
37:15
connected,
37:16
both
37:16
at
37:16
the
37:17
concrete
37:17
level
37:17
to
37:17
the
37:17
earth
37:18
and
37:18
the
37:18
trees
37:19
and
37:19
the
37:19
animals
37:19
and
37:20
my
37:21
children
37:21
and
37:22
my
37:22
neighbors
37:22
and
37:23
people
37:24
who
37:24
think
37:24
differently
37:24
than
37:25
me
37:25
politically.
37:25
And
37:26
I'm
37:26
tapped
37:26
into
37:26
that.
37:26
And
37:27
I'm
37:27
also
37:27
tapped
37:28
into
37:30
the
37:30
time
37:31
structure
37:31
of
37:31
this
37:31
earth
37:32
and
37:32
what's.
37:32
Actually,
37:32
I'm
37:32
thinking
37:33
about
37:34
how
37:34
what
37:34
I'm
37:34
doing
37:34
is
37:35
affecting
37:35
the
37:35
environment,
37:36
and
37:36
I'm
37:36
thinking
37:36
about
37:37
what
37:37
I'm
37:37
doing
37:37
is
37:37
affecting
37:38
my.
37:38
The
37:38
future,
37:39
children.
37:40
I'm
37:40
thinking
37:40
about
37:41
what
37:41
I'm
37:41
doing
37:41
might
37:42
be
37:42
causing
37:43
harm
37:44
or
37:44
help,
37:45
even
37:45
in
37:45
the
37:46
books
37:46
that
37:46
I'm
37:46
writing
37:47
or
37:47
the
37:47
research
37:48
that
37:48
I'm
37:48
doing.
37:49
So
37:49
it's
37:49
tapping
37:49
us
37:50
into
37:51
something
37:51
tangible
37:52
every
37:52
day.
37:53
Can
37:53
I
37:53
give
37:53
you
37:54
a
37:54
cup
37:54
of
37:54
coffee?
37:54
And
37:55
it's
37:55
also
37:55
tapping
37:56
us
37:56
into
37:56
something
37:56
much
37:57
broader.
37:58
Right?
37:58
Yes.
37:59
Yeah.
38:00
The
38:00
idea
38:00
that
38:01
nobody's
38:01
enlightened
38:02
until
38:02
we're
38:02
all
38:02
enlightened.
38:04
Right.
38:04
Nobody's
38:05
saved
38:05
until
38:05
we're
38:06
all
38:06
saved.
38:06
I
38:06
used
38:06
to
38:06
say
38:07
in
38:07
the
38:07
recovery
38:07
work,
38:07
nobody's
38:08
sober
38:08
until
38:08
we're
38:08
all
38:09
sober.
38:09
You
38:10
know,
38:10
that's
38:11
very
38:11
moving
38:11
and
38:11
it's
38:12
very
38:12
personal,
38:12
and
38:12
that's
38:13
very
38:13
big
38:13
at
38:13
the
38:13
same
38:14
time.
38:15
Yeah.
38:15
Yeah.
38:16
Well
38:16
said,
38:16
John.
38:17
And
38:18
it
38:18
also
38:19
brings
38:19
us
38:19
full
38:20
circle,
38:20
Kimberly,
38:21
because
38:22
you've
38:23
emphasized
38:24
the
38:24
interaction
38:25
between
38:25
ethics
38:26
and
38:26
wisdom
38:26
and.
38:27
And
38:27
care,
38:28
compassion.
38:28
And
38:28
now
38:29
the
38:29
bodhisattva
38:30
for
38:30
aspiration
38:32
seems
38:32
to
38:33
be,
38:33
as
38:33
you
38:33
are
38:34
implying,
38:35
a
38:36
natural
38:37
expression
38:38
of
38:38
who
38:39
and
38:39
what
38:39
we
38:39
really
38:40
are
38:40
and
38:40
of
38:40
who
38:41
and
38:41
what
38:41
everyone
38:42
else
38:42
really
38:43
is.
38:43
And
38:44
it's
38:44
just.
38:44
It
38:45
just
38:45
makes.
38:45
Well,
38:46
what.
38:46
How.
38:46
What
38:47
else
38:47
would
38:47
you
38:47
want
38:47
to
38:47
do
38:48
with
38:48
your
38:48
life?
38:49
Recognize
38:50
who
38:50
we
38:51
are
38:51
and
38:51
other
38:51
people
38:52
are
38:52
like,
38:53
this
38:54
is
38:54
the
38:54
body
38:55
side
38:55
for
38:55
aspiration
38:56
is
38:56
just
38:56
what
38:57
makes
38:57
sense
38:58
from
38:58
that
38:59
perspective.
39:00
That's
39:01
just
39:01
what
39:01
makes
39:01
sense.
39:01
And
39:01
I
39:01
would
39:02
go
39:02
so
39:02
far,
39:02
again,
39:03
to
39:03
say
39:04
that
39:04
it's
39:04
an
39:04
indication
39:05
of
39:05
true
39:06
insight,
39:07
true
39:07
realization.
39:08
True
39:08
is
39:08
a
39:09
true
39:09
true.
39:10
But,
39:10
you
39:11
know,
39:12
it's
39:12
an
39:12
indication.
39:13
It's
39:13
a
39:13
check.
39:14
It's
39:14
an
39:14
indicator
39:15
that
39:15
we're
39:15
on
39:15
track
39:16
both
39:17
as
39:17
an
39:17
individual
39:17
and
39:18
in
39:18
a
39:18
system
39:18
we
39:19
might
39:19
be
39:19
following
39:19
as
39:20
well.
39:21
And
39:21
perhaps
39:21
important
39:22
to
39:22
acknowledge
39:23
that,
39:24
as
39:25
you've
39:25
implied,
39:26
everything
39:26
in
39:27
every
39:27
developmental
39:28
stage
39:28
has
39:29
its
39:29
potentials
39:30
and
39:30
its
39:30
traps.
39:31
And
39:31
I
39:31
think
39:32
you
39:32
and
39:32
John
39:32
have
39:33
both
39:33
emphasized
39:33
that.
39:34
And
39:34
even
39:35
the
39:35
Bodhisattva,
39:36
aspiration
39:36
has
39:37
its
39:37
traps
39:38
and
39:38
Even
39:39
some
39:39
of
39:39
the
39:39
ways,
39:39
it's
39:39
traditionally
39:40
formulated
39:40
as
39:41
a
39:41
vow.
39:42
I
39:42
vow
39:43
to
39:43
awaken,
39:43
liberate
39:44
all
39:44
beings.
39:44
So
39:45
good
39:45
luck.
39:47
Yeah.
39:48
It's
39:48
like
39:48
once
39:48
you
39:49
realize
39:49
how
39:49
much
39:49
it
39:49
takes
39:50
to
39:50
awaken
39:50
one
39:51
being
39:52
oneself,
39:54
liberating
39:54
them
39:55
all.
39:55
See,
39:56
I
39:56
remember
39:57
when
39:57
I
39:57
had
39:57
my
39:57
early
39:58
stages
39:58
of
39:58
Tibetan
39:59
Buddhism.
39:59
I
40:00
was
40:00
retreat
40:01
and
40:01
Lama
40:02
Surya
40:02
Das
40:02
and
40:02
brought
40:03
in
40:03
this
40:03
very
40:03
traditional,
40:05
traditional
40:06
llama.
40:06
And
40:07
every
40:08
practice
40:08
began
40:09
with
40:09
the
40:09
Bodhisattva
40:10
vow.
40:11
Yes.
40:12
Which
40:12
I
40:12
would
40:12
just
40:13
mouth
40:13
quietly
40:14
because
40:14
there's
40:14
no
40:14
way
40:15
I
40:15
was
40:15
going
40:15
to
40:15
commit
40:15
to
40:16
liberating
40:16
all
40:16
beings.
40:17
Finally,
40:18
I
40:18
stood
40:18
up
40:18
and
40:19
said,
40:19
well,
40:19
you
40:20
know,
40:20
I
40:20
just
40:21
got
40:21
married
40:21
after
40:22
nine
40:22
years.
40:22
It
40:23
took
40:23
me
40:23
nine
40:23
years
40:24
to
40:24
commit
40:24
to
40:25
serving
40:25
one
40:26
being.
40:27
He
40:27
was
40:27
not
40:28
impressed.
40:30
It's
40:31
so
40:31
true.
40:31
It's
40:32
so
40:32
true.
40:32
It's
40:33
a
40:33
beautiful
40:33
thing,
40:33
you
40:34
know,
40:34
I
40:34
do
40:34
wanted
40:35
to
40:35
take
40:35
the
40:35
opportunity
40:36
to
40:36
dispel
40:36
a
40:37
dharma
40:37
rumor,
40:38
the
40:38
Buddhist
40:38
rumor,
40:39
which
40:39
I
40:40
see
40:40
out
40:40
there
40:41
often,
40:41
which
40:42
is
40:42
somehow
40:43
that
40:43
the
40:43
Bodhisattva
40:44
vow
40:44
and
40:44
vows
40:45
are
40:45
a
40:45
big
40:45
deal.
40:45
They're
40:46
codes.
40:46
You
40:46
know,
40:47
codes
40:47
are
40:47
a
40:47
big
40:47
deal
40:48
in
40:48
the
40:48
traditions,
40:49
and
40:49
there's
40:49
a
40:50
lot
40:50
of
40:50
value
40:50
to
40:50
them
40:51
and
40:52
there's
40:52
a
40:52
lot
40:52
of
40:52
trappings
40:53
to
40:53
them.
40:53
So
40:54
it's
40:54
again,
40:54
one
40:55
of
40:55
those
40:55
polarity
40:55
things,
40:56
but
40:57
that
40:57
somehow
40:58
the
40:58
Bodhisattva
40:59
vows
41:00
to
41:01
stick
41:01
around.
41:01
They're
41:02
going
41:02
to
41:02
get
41:02
enlightened,
41:03
and
41:03
they're
41:03
going
41:03
to
41:03
get
41:03
to
41:03
a
41:04
place
41:04
of
41:04
wisdom
41:05
and
41:06
bliss,
41:06
let's
41:07
say,
41:07
say
41:07
the
41:07
good
41:08
kind
41:08
of
41:08
bliss.
41:08
And
41:08
they're
41:09
just
41:09
going
41:09
to
41:09
stick
41:09
around
41:10
while
41:10
everyone
41:11
else
41:11
is
41:11
suffering
41:12
until
41:12
everybody
41:13
gets
41:13
out
41:13
of
41:13
suffering.
41:14
And
41:14
it
41:14
doesn't.
41:15
That's
41:15
a
41:15
misunderstanding.
41:17
I
41:17
would
41:17
venture
41:17
to
41:18
say,
41:19
as
41:19
we
41:19
transform,
41:20
our
41:20
world
41:21
transforms.
41:21
And
41:22
it
41:22
doesn't
41:22
mean
41:22
that
41:22
we
41:22
don't
41:23
see
41:23
suffering
41:23
out
41:23
there.
41:24
It
41:24
doesn't
41:24
mean
41:24
that
41:24
we
41:24
don't
41:25
suffer
41:25
ourselves.
41:25
But
41:26
the
41:26
way
41:26
we
41:26
experience
41:27
that
41:27
suffering
41:27
changes
41:28
radically.
41:29
And
41:29
our
41:30
capacities,
41:31
you
41:31
know,
41:32
our
41:32
capacities,
41:33
both
41:34
in
41:34
terms
41:34
of
41:34
our
41:35
spiritual
41:35
development
41:36
and
41:36
evolution
41:37
that
41:37
we've
41:37
put
41:37
in
41:38
and
41:38
our
41:38
developmental
41:39
journey,
41:39
how
41:39
far
41:40
we've
41:40
come,
41:40
our
41:40
capacities
41:41
get
41:42
bigger
41:42
and
41:42
bigger.
41:42
We
41:43
can
41:43
reach
41:44
more.
41:44
We
41:44
can
41:45
have
41:45
more
41:45
impact
41:46
in
41:46
the
41:46
small
41:46
things
41:47
that
41:47
we
41:47
do.
41:48
And
41:48
so
41:48
the
41:48
path
41:48
of
41:48
the
41:49
Bodhisattva
41:50
is
41:50
to
41:51
awaken
41:51
as
41:51
best
41:52
we
41:52
can.
41:53
Yes.
41:53
And
41:54
to
41:54
be
41:54
in
41:54
the
41:54
world,
41:55
not
41:55
lock
41:55
ourselves
41:56
away
41:56
in
41:56
a
41:56
cave,
41:56
you
41:57
know,
41:57
to
41:57
be
41:57
in
41:57
the
41:57
world
41:58
as
41:58
best
41:58
we
41:58
can.
41:59
But
42:00
it's
42:01
not
42:01
that,
42:01
like,
42:01
we're
42:02
in
42:02
bliss
42:02
over
42:02
here
42:03
and
42:03
everyone
42:03
else
42:03
is
42:03
suffering.
42:04
It's
42:04
that
42:05
as
42:06
we
42:06
change
42:06
the
42:07
world,
42:08
then
42:08
in
42:08
turn,
42:09
our
42:09
world
42:10
then
42:11
in
42:11
turn
42:12
changes,
42:13
and
42:13
there's
42:14
less
42:14
suffering.
42:15
So
42:15
it's
42:16
much
42:17
more
42:17
powerful
42:17
than
42:17
we
42:17
think.
42:19
Yeah.
42:19
Beautiful.
42:20
Yeah.
42:21
It
42:21
feels
42:21
like
42:22
you
42:22
have
42:23
beautifully
42:23
brought
42:23
us
42:24
full
42:24
circle
42:24
here,
42:25
Kimberly.
42:25
And
42:25
I
42:26
have
42:26
one
42:26
little
42:26
thing.
42:27
I've
42:27
been
42:27
bugging
42:27
me
42:28
since
42:28
the
42:28
very
42:28
first
42:29
paragraph.
42:29
Basically,
42:30
you
42:30
mentioned
42:31
at
42:31
the
42:31
very
42:32
beginning
42:32
how
42:32
you
42:32
just
42:33
taught
42:33
a
42:33
retreat
42:33
on
42:34
the
42:34
Heart
42:34
Sutra.
42:35
Yeah.
42:35
And
42:35
talked
42:36
about
42:36
how
42:36
Tibetan
42:37
Buddhists,
42:37
or
42:38
Buddhists
42:38
in
42:38
general
42:38
have
42:39
been
42:39
arguing
42:40
over
42:40
that
42:41
interpretation
42:41
for
42:42
1500
42:42
years.
42:43
Yes.
42:43
And
42:43
I've
42:44
seen,
42:44
I've
42:44
heard
42:45
about
42:45
it
42:45
in
42:45
the
42:45
Tibetan
42:46
tradition
42:46
and
42:46
I've
42:46
seen
42:47
videos
42:47
where
42:48
these
42:48
monks
42:48
are
42:48
just
42:48
going
42:49
after
42:49
each
42:49
other,
42:49
you
42:50
know,
42:50
in
42:50
these
42:50
arguments.
42:51
I
42:51
understand
42:51
what
42:51
they're
42:52
saying,
42:52
but
42:52
I
42:52
saw
42:52
the
42:52
videos
42:53
and
42:54
is
42:54
that
42:54
a
42:54
tradition
42:55
that
42:55
upheld
42:56
where
42:56
you
42:56
can
42:56
get
42:56
into
42:57
these,
42:57
not
42:58
like
42:58
Fox
42:58
News
42:59
arguments
42:59
or
42:59
CNN
43:00
arguments
43:00
where
43:01
everybody
43:01
yells
43:01
their
43:02
bullet
43:02
points
43:02
at
43:02
each
43:02
other,
43:03
but
43:04
really
43:04
a
43:04
sacred
43:05
conversation
43:06
that
43:06
leads
43:06
to
43:07
a
43:07
higher
43:07
level
43:07
of
43:07
understanding.
43:08
Oh,
43:09
and
43:09
is
43:09
that
43:09
okay?
43:10
Yes,
43:10
thank
43:10
you
43:10
for
43:11
asking.
43:11
It
43:11
was
43:11
a
43:11
problem
43:12
for
43:12
Socrates.
43:13
You
43:13
know,
43:13
in
43:13
Christianity
43:14
we
43:14
didn't
43:14
do
43:14
too
43:14
well
43:14
with
43:15
it.
43:15
So
43:15
is
43:15
that
43:16
something
43:16
you
43:16
guys
43:16
have
43:17
been
43:18
carrying
43:18
out
43:18
and
43:19
being
43:19
successfully
43:19
able
43:20
to
43:20
do?
43:20
It's
43:21
a
43:21
huge
43:21
thing.
43:22
Yes,
43:22
it's
43:22
a
43:22
huge
43:23
thing
43:23
and
43:23
thanks
43:23
for
43:23
mentioning
43:24
it
43:24
because
43:25
anything
43:25
just
43:26
to
43:26
honor,
43:26
you
43:26
know,
43:27
my
43:27
lineage
43:27
and
43:28
the
43:28
teachers
43:28
and
43:29
the
43:29
beauty
43:29
of
43:29
Tibetan
43:30
Buddhism
43:30
in
43:31
particular,
43:31
there's
43:31
a
43:32
beautiful
43:32
debate
43:33
tradition
43:33
and
43:34
in
43:34
order
43:34
to
43:35
progress
43:35
spiritually
43:36
and
43:36
to
43:37
actually
43:37
get
43:37
degrees,
43:38
because
43:38
in
43:38
the
43:38
Galupa
43:39
Tibetan
43:39
Buddhist
43:40
tradition,
43:40
the
43:40
tradition
43:41
of
43:41
the
43:41
Dalai
43:41
Lama,
43:41
it's
43:42
very
43:42
scholastic,
43:43
it's
43:43
very
43:44
academic,
43:44
which
43:45
is
43:45
why
43:45
really
43:46
super
43:46
heady
43:47
people
43:47
like
43:47
myself
43:48
are
43:48
really
43:49
interested
43:49
in
43:49
it
43:50
and
43:50
others
43:50
aren't,
43:50
and
43:51
that's
43:51
fine.
43:51
You
43:51
know,
43:52
it's.
43:52
We
43:52
all
43:52
have
43:52
to
43:53
find
43:53
the
43:53
spiritual
43:54
path
43:54
that
43:54
we're
43:54
most
43:54
attracted
43:55
to
43:55
and
43:55
suits
43:55
our
43:56
personality.
43:57
But
43:57
there's
43:57
this
43:57
debate
43:58
tradition.
43:58
Yeah.
43:59
Where
43:59
you
44:00
get
44:00
in
44:00
each
44:00
other's
44:00
faces
44:01
and
44:01
you
44:02
slap
44:02
your
44:02
hands
44:03
and
44:03
people
44:03
can
44:04
Google
44:04
Tibetan
44:04
Buddhist
44:05
debate
44:05
in
44:06
the
44:06
monasteries
44:06
and
44:06
they'll
44:07
see
44:07
it.
44:07
It's
44:07
extraordinary.
44:08
And
44:09
it's
44:09
a
44:09
fantastic
44:10
practice
44:10
of
44:11
good
44:11
hearted,
44:12
good
44:12
nature,
44:13
good
44:14
humor
44:15
and
44:15
yet
44:16
fierce
44:16
in
44:17
your
44:17
face,
44:18
challenging
44:19
of
44:20
logic
44:21
and
44:22
assumptions
44:23
and
44:23
beliefs,
44:24
our
44:25
belief
44:25
structures.
44:26
And
44:26
all
44:27
of
44:27
this
44:27
gets
44:27
questioned.
44:28
And
44:29
the
44:29
joy
44:29
of
44:29
it
44:30
is
44:30
it's
44:30
passionate,
44:31
it's
44:31
dramatic,
44:32
it's
44:32
challenging,
44:32
it's
44:33
in
44:33
your
44:33
face.
44:34
But
44:34
it's
44:34
also
44:35
good
44:35
humored
44:36
and
44:36
joyful.
44:38
And
44:38
it
44:39
trains
44:39
us
44:39
not
44:39
only
44:40
to
44:40
think
44:40
clearly
44:41
about
44:42
these
44:42
deep
44:42
questions
44:43
of
44:43
who
44:43
we
44:43
are,
44:44
why
44:44
we're
44:44
here,
44:44
what's
44:45
right,
44:45
what's
44:45
wrong,
44:46
but
44:46
also
44:46
trains
44:47
our
44:47
own
44:48
interior
44:49
conversations.
44:50
Because
44:51
isn't
44:51
that
44:51
where
44:52
the
44:52
Debates
44:53
that
44:53
happen
44:53
inside
44:54
of
44:54
our
44:54
system,
44:55
our
44:55
own
44:56
cognition.
44:57
It
44:57
also
44:58
trains
44:58
us
44:58
to
44:58
do
44:58
that
44:59
well,
44:59
with
44:59
good
45:00
humor.
45:00
Yes.
45:01
And
45:01
heart
45:02
and
45:02
cheer
45:03
instead
45:03
of
45:03
beating
45:03
ourselves
45:04
up,
45:05
which
45:05
is
45:05
often
45:05
where
45:05
the
45:06
problem
45:06
is.
45:06
I
45:06
think
45:06
just
45:07
credit's
45:07
due.
45:07
I
45:07
think
45:07
the
45:08
Jewish
45:08
tradition
45:08
has
45:09
been
45:09
really
45:09
good
45:09
at
45:09
that.
45:10
They've
45:10
been
45:10
arguing
45:11
over
45:11
Torah
45:12
and
45:12
Talmud
45:13
for
45:13
thousands
45:14
of
45:14
years.
45:14
And
45:15
I
45:15
heard
45:15
one
45:15
person
45:16
say,
45:16
jews
45:17
don't
45:17
pray
45:17
to
45:17
God.
45:17
They
45:18
argue
45:18
with
45:18
God.
45:19
You
45:19
know,
45:19
there's
45:20
that.
45:20
I
45:20
think
45:20
that's
45:20
so
45:21
healthy.
45:21
And
45:21
that's
45:21
something
45:21
I
45:22
was
45:22
hoping
45:22
that
45:22
we'd
45:22
be
45:23
able
45:23
to
45:23
bring
45:23
in
45:24
here
45:24
to.
45:25
To
45:25
this
45:25
podcast.
45:26
And
45:26
I
45:27
think
45:27
we
45:27
touched
45:28
on
45:28
it
45:28
a
45:28
bit
45:28
today,
45:29
and
45:29
it's
45:29
been
45:30
really,
45:30
really
45:31
rich
45:31
and
45:32
transmutory,
45:33
I
45:33
would
45:34
say.
45:34
Yeah.
45:35
Yeah.
45:35
Beautiful.
45:36
And
45:36
Kimberly,
45:37
is
45:37
there
45:37
anything
45:37
else
45:37
you'd
45:38
like
45:38
to
45:38
add
45:38
before
45:39
we
45:40
bring
45:40
this
45:40
circle
45:41
to
45:41
completion?
45:42
Oh,
45:42
just
45:43
gratitude
45:43
to
45:44
the
45:44
two
45:44
of
45:44
you
45:44
for
45:44
this
45:44
incredible
45:45
work.
45:46
I
45:46
love
45:47
your
45:47
listeners.
45:48
To
45:48
know
45:48
you
45:48
are
45:48
not
45:48
alone,
45:50
to
45:50
reach
45:50
out,
45:51
to
45:52
find
45:52
others
45:53
that
45:54
you
45:54
feel
45:55
seen
45:55
and
45:56
connected
45:56
to
45:57
at
45:57
spiritual
45:58
level,
45:58
at
45:58
a
45:59
transpersonal
46:00
level,
46:01
that
46:01
there
46:01
is
46:02
support
46:03
for
46:03
you
46:03
to
46:03
explore
46:04
those
46:05
arenas,
46:06
and
46:06
that
46:07
this
46:07
human
46:08
life
46:08
is
46:08
really
46:09
meant
46:09
for
46:10
awakening
46:11
the
46:11
heart
46:11
and
46:12
expanding
46:12
our
46:12
wisdom
46:13
and
46:13
then
46:13
turning
46:14
that
46:14
into
46:14
action
46:15
in
46:15
the
46:15
way
46:15
that
46:16
we're
46:16
each
46:17
most
46:17
called
46:18
to
46:18
do
46:19
in
46:19
our
46:19
own
46:19
creativity.
46:21
So
46:21
just
46:21
lots
46:21
of
46:22
appreciation
46:22
and
46:23
gratitude
46:23
and
46:23
love
46:23
to
46:24
you
46:24
both.
46:24
Thank
46:25
you
46:25
so
46:25
much.
46:25
And
46:26
thank
46:26
you
46:26
for
46:27
all
46:28
you've
46:28
communicated
46:29
and
46:29
transmitted
46:30
and
46:31
for
46:31
the
46:32
many,
46:32
many
46:33
years
46:33
of
46:33
deep,
46:34
committed
46:35
practice
46:35
and
46:36
study
46:36
that
46:36
have
46:36
gone
46:37
into
46:37
your
46:37
capacity
46:38
for
46:38
this
46:38
kind
46:39
of
46:39
transmission.
46:40
And
46:41
also
46:41
just
46:41
to
46:41
let
46:42
people
46:42
know,
46:42
I
46:42
believe
46:43
some
46:43
of
46:43
your
46:43
teaching
46:44
is
46:44
done
46:44
online
46:45
and
46:45
you
46:45
are
46:45
accessible
46:46
in
46:46
that
46:46
way,
46:46
and
46:47
I
46:48
have
46:48
certainly
46:48
learned
46:49
from
46:49
you,
46:49
and
46:50
I'm
46:50
sure
46:50
anyone
46:51
who
46:52
is
46:52
interested
46:53
will
46:53
learn
46:53
a
46:53
lot,
46:53
too.
46:54
So,
46:54
Kimberly,
46:55
thank
46:55
you
46:55
so
46:56
much.
46:56
Thank
46:57
you,
46:57
gentlemen.
46:58
Thank
46:58
you.
46:59
Thank
46:59
you
46:59
very
47:00
much
47:00
for
47:00
being
47:01
a
47:01
part
47:01
of
47:01
this
47:01
conversation.
47:02
We
47:02
hope
47:03
that
47:03
you
47:03
were
47:03
moved,
47:04
as
47:04
we
47:04
are
47:04
moved,
47:05
being
47:05
part
47:05
of
47:05
it
47:06
ourselves.
47:06
We'd
47:07
also
47:07
like
47:07
to
47:07
say
47:08
that
47:08
this
47:08
is
47:08
being
47:09
funded
47:09
by
47:09
Roger
47:10
and
47:10
myself.
47:10
It
47:10
comes
47:10
out
47:11
of
47:11
our
47:11
pockets.
47:11
So
47:12
if
47:12
you
47:12
would
47:12
like
47:12
to
47:12
help
47:13
us
47:13
to.
47:14
Mainly
47:14
to
47:14
get
47:14
this
47:15
podcast
47:15
out
47:15
to
47:15
more
47:16
people
47:16
because
47:16
the
47:17
bigger
47:17
audience
47:17
have,
47:17
which
47:18
is
47:18
steadily
47:18
growing,
47:18
but
47:19
the
47:19
more
47:19
people
47:19
we
47:20
can
47:20
reach
47:20
and
47:20
the
47:20
more
47:20
marketing
47:21
we
47:21
can
47:21
do,
47:21
the
47:22
more
47:22
positive
47:23
effect
47:23
we
47:23
can
47:23
have
47:23
on
47:23
the
47:24
world.
47:24
So
47:24
we've
47:24
done
47:25
that
47:25
a
47:25
couple
47:25
of
47:25
ways,
47:25
but
47:26
we'd
47:26
like
47:26
you
47:26
to
47:26
buy
47:27
us
47:27
a
47:27
cup
47:27
of
47:27
coffee.
47:28
Very
47:28
simple.
47:28
And
47:28
I
47:29
do
47:29
that
47:29
with
47:29
podcasts
47:30
that
47:30
I
47:31
support,
47:31
and
47:32
I
47:32
find
47:32
it
47:32
very
47:32
satisfying.
47:33
So
47:34
thank
47:34
you
47:34
for
47:34
your
47:34
help.
47:35
Thank
47:35
you
47:35
for
47:35
your
47:35
presence.
47:36
And
47:36
thank
47:36
you
47:36
for
47:37
all
47:37
you
47:37
are
47:37
and
47:38
all
47:38
you
47:38
do.
47:38
We
47:38
love
47:39
you.