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Success Stories: Adrian Lance on Writing & Publishing His First Book · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: One of the themes that you'll hear time after time on this podcast is the importance of simply doing the work.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is a great example of somebody who stuck with the process and followed through on their dream to write and publish a book.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, thanks so much for joining me on this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Kent Sanders, and I'm a ghostwriter and professor of communications.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is a show that helps you write amazing content so you can save time, stand out from the competition, and get more leads that turn into customers or clients.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you've been following this podcast for any length of time, you might remember that over the last few months, I've done a couple of installments of a series that I'm just calling success stories.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the point of this series is to highlight people who are in the first stages of their journey in building an audience or writing a book.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: The first couple of people that I profiled in this series were Craig Harmon and Ruth Heinzman, and those were those episodes were a blast to uh to record and to get out there because they just remind us that everybody starts somewhere and everybody can do this.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the point of this whole series is just to show you that it can be done.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And also to show the specific steps that other people have taken to make their writing dreams come true.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm excited today to bring you the next installment in this success story series, which is a conversation with my friend and former student, Adrian Lance.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Adrian is a blogger and an author from the Midwest, and his background is ministry and leadership.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Adrian's mission is to equip all believers for a life in the kingdom of God and to see its advancement on the earth today.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Adrian just released his first book, which is called Three Keys to Cultivating the Kingdom of God.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not only an engaging and well-written book, it's also a great example of how to approach writing and marketing a book, especially if you're doing it for the very first time.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So in this conversation, we explore why Adrian wanted to write a book, his publishing and marketing processes, and his advice for anybody who wants to write a book.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've been thinking about writing a book but don't know where to start, this episode is definitely for you.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get right to the conversation.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Adrian, welcome to the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: It is great to connect with you again, and I'm so excited we could do this conversation.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for having me today.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I was looking at your new book and your workbook.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry, journal.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a journal and not a workbook, correct?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is a journal.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just really impressed with what you put together.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: It is so well done and such a wonderful book.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think you have done like an A plus job on this.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm excited for you to share this with our listeners and diving into the process of writing this first book and your journal.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: So talk for a second about why you wanted to write a book and what your goals were for the book.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I never really saw myself writing a book.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was always something that was unachievable.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's for these other people I don't know enough to write a book about.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I had recently led a small group Bible study at my church, and we were getting ready to do another one in the next summer.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was looking for a topic and I wanted to do a Bible study on the kingdom of God.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: I started looking for studies that would fit everything that I was looking for in a study on the kingdom of God, and I could not find one that was a perfect fit.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I had done some teaching and church settings, so I decided that I would just write notes, write an outline myself, and we would just do this study together.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I set that quick outline in my journal and put it aside, didn't really think too much about it because the study was going to be in the summer.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: I had eight months to prepare for that.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't something I needed to put my attention to right away.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that winter I saw that outline in my journal again.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, wait a minute, this this is a book outline.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I set out to actually start writing it.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and began then.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: That was five years ago.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel intimidated at all by the idea of writing a book?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had no idea what the process of writing a book looked like.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And going into it, it really showed that I had no idea what that process was going to be like.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I like that.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of psyched myself up for it a little bit.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I had a lot of momentum in the very beginning, but because I didn't really know where I wanted to go with the book, I lost that very quickly and kind of put the book on hold for a little bit of time.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: What was your process like in the writing of the book?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is a this is a full-length book, which is kind of a dumb thing for me to say, you know, a book is a book is a book.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: But what I mean by that is that a lot of people feel intimidated by the idea of writing a full-length book.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I would describe full length as at least a hundred pages.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: What was your process for actually getting the writing done?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the part that people struggle with a lot.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and even people who have put out multiple books, it's a continual, you know, it I don't know if it ever actually gets any easier.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: What was your process for actually getting the words done on paper?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the first step was to outline.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I learned from a mentor of mine that the way he outlines nonfiction books is he takes a stack of note cards and he takes his topic and thinks of every question related to that topic and just writes one question down per note card.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I grabbed a stack of note cards one day and I just started writing out every question I could think of relating to the kingdom of God.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I took those note cards and I divided them up into sections or topics, the ones that related to each other.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I just put them together in stacks and those quickly became my chapters.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then my next step after I had this outline in note cards was to start writing what I already knew, try to answer these questions with the knowledge that I already had.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went into a Word document and I started answering out these questions to the best of my ability.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the rough, rough draft of my book in the completion of that.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went back through the areas that I needed research.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I needed more information to back up this point.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I went then and I did the that extra research and added that into the book and eventually just followed it up and added my own life story to it, gave some examples and illustrations to illustrate those points, and I had my rough draft at that point, my fine, my finished rough draft.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: So your 60-second response is one of the best things that has been on this podcast in a while because that is so succinct and so systematic.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: You have just laid out this very doable step-by-step process.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really, it's very step-by-step.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it, if it weren't for that process being taught to me, I probably would not have finished the book yet.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um that process helped me stay on task and it gave me small steps, bite-sized steps that I could do to kind of chip away at this larger project of a book.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because writing, like you said, a full-length book, it's really intimidating.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: No matter who you are, it can be intimidating.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it really helped me break it down to be a little bit easier one step at a time.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: It seems like the questions were really the catalyst that got this whole process going.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because without questions, they were you feel kind of like you need questions to draw information and ideas out of you.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think where we get stuck sometimes as writers is we feel like we have to push things out of us, like we've got to come up with stuff and we've got to create all this stuff.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: When the questions are such an important part because they just draw out that information.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really, really love that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: That is so helpful.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, I mean, I like those questions, they're the same questions the readers are already asking.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just going through and answering those because readers, when you read a nonfiction book, it's usually looking for answers to some question.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that is so, so true.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that also goes back to if I if I seem a little scattered in this conversation, it's because I'm furiously writing notes down.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um now they may not be legible later on.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's a whole other topic.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: My notes never are either.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: We shall see.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I have to put these in Evernote as soon as the conversation's over.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, I have no idea literally no idea what I wrote down.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, did you have any way of like what did those questions come from other people, or did those just come from you internally?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did you kind of test drive this book idea some places where you got questions, or did these all come from you?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: They came internally from me.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think they were some of them are questions, they're basic questions, like what is our identity in Christ?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um basic questions that I wanted to answer in this book.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: But it was a brainstorming session.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I just did free writing.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I did not judge any of my thoughts, I didn't edit myself out.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I let everything that was in my mind flow out onto these note cards in the form of questions.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: I really love that.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I wonder if using note cards, you know, just small note cards, do you feel like that made a difference as opposed to typing on computer?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: What I mean is that there's something that's very non-threatening about using a little note card, as opposed to a blank word document or something where you're just like, oh, I don't know what to put down.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very different opposed to a blank word document that you know is going to end up being over a hundred pages.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's very it's much less intimidating that way.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I use the same method to outline the journal as well.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now, since you mentioned the journal, let's go into that for a second.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: What gave you the idea of doing a journal and how did you create the journal from the book, like drawing out questions and and what was your thought process in creating the journal?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wanted to do the journal.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wanted to do a workbook or a journal, um, and I ended up putting a leader's guide in the book.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that took care of the workbook portion.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: But the journal for me, as far as like my own quiet time with God, I like having a plan going into it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I like having structure.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just a structured person.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I need it.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only way I'm gonna get things done, is if I have structure.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to be able to create a journal that would really walk people through that quiet time, that devotional time.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it starts off with scripture reading, has a short devotional, and then some questions for reflection and prayer points.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to include all of that while walking through those three keys that the book talks about.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's how the journal was made.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It was really a product of my time in quarantine.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote it over the course of a week when I wasn't at work and I was stuck at home.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it it came through pretty quickly for what it was.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna see a lot of quarantine books released this fall.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, one of my one of my clients literally just told me a couple days ago, they said, Oh, instead of going on the certain place they had planned to go before the pandemic hit, I wrote a book instead, and it's coming out in I think November or December.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: So like a whole flood of quarantine books, which is so awesome.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I love seeing authors take action and just get their stuff out there.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Less TV shows, but more books.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's true, that's true.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I do want to talk for a second about before I get into some of the nitty-gritty stuff about all the stuff that I geek out over, which is like layout, formatting, editing, and all the things that normal people don't think about, but you know, people who are authors are sometimes not normal.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm making fun of myself there.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we think about these things and sometimes obsess obsess over them.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: But let's dive into some of the themes that you hit on in the book, specifically the three keys to cultivating the kingdom of God identity, relationship, and calling.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love for you to just share a bit about why each of those things are important and um what we can what we can learn from the book about those things.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so with this book, I mean there have been other books written on the kingdom of God before, but I just feel that it's really it's a foundational element for Christ followers to know who they are in Christ, to know our identity.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that having a good grasp of that really changes everything in our walk with God.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: If we know who we are in Christ, we can better know how to walk in relationship with God.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can approach his throne with confidence and prayer.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because knowing we're his kids changes the way we approach him completely.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: And through that comes the calling.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that each of these keys in the book, they really build on each other.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know who you are in Christ, you learn to walk in relationship with God, and out of that comes our calling and knowing what it is that we were made for, and how do we fit into the Great Commission?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Man, that is succinct.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you've really thought this through.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And weaved all this together.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the beauty of spending time on your own stuff, is that you really have it thought through and you can express it succinctly.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: So do you feel like writing is part of your spiritual calling?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that it's necessarily always going to be writing nonfiction.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: I feel more drawn to writing fiction and telling stories than I do to nonfiction writing.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I do definitely see it as part of my calling.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I love that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when we look at the Bible, so much of the Bible is narrative.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you would kind of think from a like if we were God, you would think, okay, I'm God, I want to communicate to people.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to put it down in some form where everything is straightforward.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's laid out very specifically.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of our Western mindset.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: But instead, Jesus, Jesus communicates in stories much of the time.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And half the time, people are left sort of scratching their heads, going, What is he really talking about?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're not really sure.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I just, I love that.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you mentioned fiction and stories because that's such an important part of I think what we do as authors is sharing stories, whether it's narrative, nonfiction, or fiction.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So do you have your sights on maybe writing uh writing a novel or some short stories in the near future?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have a series, a book series that I want to do.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it would be a fantasy, probably fantasy young adult series that I have my eyes set on in the future.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, hopeful, hoping to start outlining that this fall, but we'll see what happens there.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: If not, next year, early next year.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the the movies or novels or stories that really speak to you?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big Star Wars fan.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:18
  unknown: Yes.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also a big Harry Potter fan, but I'm a big Star Wars fan.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um they they tell stories so well.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they're they're science fiction, they're fantasy, but there's so much in them that we can all relate to.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: We can all relate to having something that we have to overcome, some struggle.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they are they're the hero's journey, which in some way we can all see ourselves in in some point in our life.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the Star Wars movies have so much to say about fatherhood, you know, sons, fathers, family, legacy.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're just so rich, and maybe that's a reason why people keep returning to those movies, even though some of them are better than others.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's still something really fundamentally uh meaningful about Star Wars.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Except for Jar Jar.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's really nothing meaningful about Jar Jar.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's just be honest.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, they're great.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: So right behind my computer and monitor is a Empire Strikes back poster.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, cool.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the best.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: I love all that stuff.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it is, it's just a great movie.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'd love to dive into the nitty-gritty of your publishing process a little bit.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, take us through your process of of your editing, formatting, cover design, uh, marketing, anything else you want to throw out there.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I once I had the finished rough draft of my book, I went through and I did some rough editing on my own and did a quick format um just so that it actually looked somewhat like a book.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I rounded up a team of beta readers who could read through the book and give me feedback because I really wanted feedback on how the book was.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Was the content relatable?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that really needs to be changed or reworded that's not well understood?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted that feedback before I ever spent money on an editor.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I didn't want to get that feedback later and then have to go back to an editor again because I've rewritten half the book.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that beta readers, that was my first step.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I found those people and I didn't really limit it to a small group.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I tried to get about 15, and I had about 15 beta readers that signed up saying, I'll do this.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the reality is most of them won't actually follow through with the commitment.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: That is if I can make any recommendation to authors out there, always try to get more people when it comes to beta readers or your launch team, because a good majority of them won't actually follow through.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: I only had about five of them that actually read through the entire book and provided feedback.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's totally okay because we all have things that come up and commitments that we're not for one reason or another, we thought we could give more time to it, but we're not able to.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Life happens, things change.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: We've experienced that a lot this year.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's like there's there's no hard feelings about that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: I asked for more people because I totally expected some of them to not be able to follow through.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it went through my beta readers and then I hired an editor.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he did a trial edit first, the first thousand words, so I got a good idea of how his work was.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a pretty I look for a low price point because again, it's a short book.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is my first book.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: I can't be spending thousands of dollars on an editor.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I went to a Facebook group that I'm a part of and I did a quick search for editors, found him on there, looked at some of his other work, um, some of the reviews on those books.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's always a good place to see how the editor does is check the reviews because if books are filled with grammatical mistakes, there will be a review telling you that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I checked those reviews out on the books that he had in his um profile portfolio, and went ahead and hired him.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um turnaround time was pretty quick on that, a lot faster than I expected.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a couple weeks and I had the manuscript back.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So then I had to go through and make all of those corrections, learned a lot about myself as a writer, and learned that there are some words that I use a lot that I should just never use ever again.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I catch myself all the time now, I don't need to say it that way.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: I can say it another way.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, do not I would I would really strongly suggest that everyone have an editor.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's just such an important piece, and you learn a lot from it as a writer.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I did go through a final proofread after that because of course I had changes that needed to be done, and things had to be some parts had to be completely reworded.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I needed to go through another proofread before I actually went into publishing.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Making those final corrections from the proofread though, for whatever reason, took me a long time.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was about a year between then and when I actually finished proofreading the book.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I had spent so much time with at that point, I needed to step away to kind of see it with fresh eyes, because I'd read through it multiple times and it was all kind of meshing together at that point.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um at the beginning of this year, I decided this is the year.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to publish, and I'm going to publish on this date.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I moved then and I looked for a cover designer and went through a couple different options and finally landed on one based out of Michigan.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And they worked closely with me, designed the covers, gave me several different options to choose from, and then we landed on the final designs eventually.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, I did all my final formatting.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did most of the formatting before getting the cover designer because I needed that final page count for the dimensions.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for that, I used Vellum.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredible software, high price point, in my opinion, well worth it for authors to plan to publish multiple books.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because it'll over time, if I continue publishing books in the way that I plan to, it'll pay for itself.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was incredibly easy to use.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I used it on both the book and the journal.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well worth it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Had the cover designed.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I am not a cover designer, so I hired a cover designer to design my book cover.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then it went into publication.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I used Amazon KDP for that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's very cool.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: Man, I love all that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I love all those uh systems and ways of going about things.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: You've you've done a great job, especially this being your first book, because so many people with with their I mean, anytime you do something for the first time, you have really have no idea what you're doing.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: But you've done a really stellar job with the production of this book.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: So you should go out and celebrate.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrate with yourself.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I have joined a lot of author groups on Facebook, and I think I owe a lot of that credit to them because I have seen a lot of what they do and learn from their experience, learn from what they did on their first books that they said didn't work.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of altered my process through there and kind of formed my publishing process from their experience.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I totally agree with what you said about Vellum.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I use as well for some of my stuff.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's I mean, it is, I think I paid like$220 for it or something like that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's by far the most expensive Mac app I've ever purchased, but if you paid someone to lay out even one book, it's going to be at least that much, probably.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you just do one project, it really pays for itself.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the learning curve is very minimal, I think.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was incredibly easy to learn.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I sat down with it the first time and I was formatting my book in the first half hour.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I knew my way around the app pretty quickly.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Very fun.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's very intuitive.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like, I don't know.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: I just have a great time playing with Vellum.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's really cool.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now talk a little bit about the marketing, if you would.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh things you've done to help get the word out about the book or increase your uh publicity with it, finding new readers, that kind of thing.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I formed a launch team for my book.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I tried to get as many people as I could to sign up.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I did not set a cap on that.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever wanted to sign up could.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I let them in.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I ended up with around 20 people in my launch team.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And a good majority of those were active participants in the launch as well.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd say about half, which is a good amount for something like that when people can sign up for free and then forget about it, especially during the year that we've had.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was a very it was a good participation there.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a launch team, but I didn't just say, okay, share this book, tell them about tell them about my book, send it to all your friends.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: I gave them specific posts to share, reshare, prompts on how to reshare.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I planned it all out so that they didn't really have to do any of the legwork.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I provided all of the content for them.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you're gonna ask someone to do something like that, we as authors have to make it as easy as possible for them.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: We have to walk them through each step because otherwise there could be less participation in it and not as great of an outcome in the marketing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I did ask um, you know, if they wanted to, they could leave a review on my book.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I gave them early access before the launch if they wanted to do that.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um so my book actually went live the day before I had my official launch, just so that it was available should they want to leave a review and an honest review, of course.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um an honest five-star review.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I like to think about it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what we all want as authors.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I want.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we do want five-star reviews.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm not afraid of those reviews that are lower.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I would be, but I'm not.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that there is something there to learn.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it could just be that the person who bought it um it wasn't the right book for them.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe maybe my marketing was off.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I miscategorized my book and it ended up you know in the hands of someone who doesn't even fit in the audience I'm trying to reach.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe I need to take another look at my categories.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um there is, I think there's wisdom to learn from those lower reviews because they can pinpoint maybe some marketing weaknesses.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and if it's editing, then maybe I just need to find a different editor.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I haven't had any of those yet, thankfully.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you only have four and if you only have five star reviews, it always looks suspicious to me.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, okay.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: It very much does.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: There's no book that is worth five stars from every single person.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the Bible.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that would be the only one I can think of.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um other than that, I can't think of any.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's yeah, everyone's got the lower reviews.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: See, I really just walked I walked my launch team through that whole process and helped them, you know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I gave them prompts whenever I'd have them reshare a post on Facebook, a prompt that they could add their own thoughts or their own experience with the book to it, because I didn't want it to just be my words that they were sharing.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted them to share their own experience since they had an opportunity to read the book ahead of the launch.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the launch team was a big part of it.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: The second big part, um, and some authors may cringe at hearing me say this, but for the first three days of my launch, I gave the book away completely free.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um not an easy choice to make when you've spent five years with something to give it away for free the first three days that it's live on Amazon.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it really gave the book the momentum that it needed.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um really helped a lot with that.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I had with during the three those three days that it was given away for free, I was giving out about 50 copies a day.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um which was good.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was excited about that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it really gave me the momentum I needed going into paid sales that Friday.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love the the generosity factor there.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I love just giving it away and getting the book out there, word of mouth.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, word it it plays a big part into word of mouth um marketing with the book because people got this book for free, they can share it with other people and really gives the word it gets the word out.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have the paperback available that week.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wasn't gonna give that one away for free.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: That would have cost me.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um yeah, it does.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it was always available.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So should they want the paperback too, they could go and get that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course the journal came out later.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it all it all played into each other.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I did hit number one on the free bestseller list.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not that that's not really something that I want to brag about because it's a free best seller list.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that as long as you choose categories wisely, and as far as marketing, that's a big thing to look at is book categories.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for that, I actually purchased um Publisher Rocket so that I could research those categories, see how different categories were performing.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot, um, there were a lot of numbers that went into how I chose the book categories my book was placed in.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: How much is Publisher Rocket?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is it like$100 or something for like a lesson?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just under$100.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I think it's 98.
• 29:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: I really should get that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're the you're the second person in about two months to to turn me onto that.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I probably should just.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: It was incredible.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was incredible, and it's so easy to use.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um very, very easy to use.
• 29:53
  unknown: Cool.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm glad you mentioned that.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting ready to dive into my next book, so I need to be thinking about this stuff.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like research on the market, it'll show you which books are selling really well, which ones aren't really performing well.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know a lot of indie authors like to write to market.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not that kind of writer.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't know that I ever will be.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: But for those that are, it's a great tool.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I guess I don't have any any qualms with people writing to market if that's what they want to do.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of fiction authors do that.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if like, hey, if young adult vampire fiction is hot right now, I don't know if it is right now or not, uh, because I'm clearly not the target market for that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: But if that's hot, we're gonna write novels and they can make a killing on that.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's great if that's what you want to do.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I I think you and I are are kind of cut from the same cloth in the sense of that doesn't that's not very creatively satisfying to me, is writing to market.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, we have things that we want to say and things we want to share and stories that we want to tell.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, although, you know, there are a lot of people who write to market as ghostwriters, obviously.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then they do their own stuff on the side.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, to each his own, and I'm glad we have all these options for writers to make money and to get our books and other content out there for sure.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of options.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Adrian, do you have any advice for someone who is considering writing a book?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: If someone's listening right now and they've been thinking about writing a book for a while, maybe for years, and they're kind of on the fence about it, they're scared, they're intimidated by this whole process.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Any advice that you would give someone like that?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: I would say don't be afraid to try new things.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when it comes when it comes to the process, I I'm the type of guy that gets so caught up in process that I can overthink it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know exactly how to do something before I set out to do it.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And with writing a book, I think each of us as authors, we really have to kind of discover our own process.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: My process for writing a book may not look like yours, and that's totally okay.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't think there's a wrong process for writing a book because our minds all work a little bit differently.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um we need we need to have that unique process to us in order to actually reach the finish line in writing a book.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: That is great.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be afraid.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's probably the number one man.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: That could be the theme of 2020, honestly, for a whole bunch of reasons.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just don't be afraid, just do it.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just jump out there and I mean the whole world has gone crazy.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's an election year, we have a pandemic, um, the economy's been all crazy.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna be a wacky year.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Why not do something wacky and put your book out there?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: What have you got to lose?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's exactly there's yeah, it's what do you have to lose?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Why, why be afraid to try it?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's the worst that could happen?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Adrian, this has been a blast.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just really appreciate you taking time to do this.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the fact that you took the leap, you thought systematically how to go about writing the book, which I think is really, really important, and you just did it and you stuck with it.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: And congratulations, you've accomplished what you know.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: They say that eight out of ten people say they want to write a book, but only a very small percentage of those people actually follow through with it.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's really something to celebrate.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me today, Kent.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: How can our listeners get in touch with you and uh find out more about your writing and your work and all the cool stuff that you're doing?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I do have a website.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is adrianlance.net.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if you go to my website, I offer a free sample of the first week of my online course that goes with the book.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for your listeners in my online store, I'll actually have a coupon code that they can get 10% off as well.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for that.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna encourage everybody to go there and I do have to congratulate you on having a.NET extension for your website.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: I do as well.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm hoping to bring back the.NET popularity.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, tech with the.com.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's bring back the the 90s.net.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and uh, I'm just.NET because the guy who owns the.com version of my of my website, um, that's already taken.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: So same goes.net.
• 34:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this has been a blast.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks again for doing this, and I'm I wish you the best of success the best of luck and lots of success with your book.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's great.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um I just really appreciate you putting your work out there and inspiring other people to grow in their relationship with God, but also in their in their creative work, just by virtue of you you putting your own creative work out there.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, thank you.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you again for having me today.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: My pleasure.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Adrian.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: It was a blast hearing about his book launch and all the cool things that he's done to get his thoughts and his content out into the world.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Here are my three biggest takeaways from our conversation.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, Adrian has a great process for figuring out book content.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I love this.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was nice and simple, it's very clear and direct, and anybody can use this process for starting to figure out what you want to be included in a nonfiction book.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: So just to review what Adrian mentioned, first of all, think of questions related to your book topic and write those questions down on note cards.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Second, divide those note cards into categories or topics, and those become your rough chapters.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: And each chapter will already have several questions that you need to answer because you've already thought through a bunch of questions and you've divided, again, you've divided those those questions, which are on note cards, into separate piles or categories.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so each chapter will already have some content that you need to address because those questions will then prompt material that will then go in those chapters.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And for the chapters that don't have a lot of note cards in them, or you feel like some things are missing, you can always fill that in.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: The problem that we get into many times with this kind of kind of thing, if we're perfectionists, is that we look at this and we go, oh, this isn't complete, or this chapter doesn't have as much content as this other chapter, and it's not all balanced and it's not all perfect.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then we just some sometimes get frustrated and discouraged because you know this process isn't smooth and and perfect.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: But this is this is a start.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is just how you get the ball rolling.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Then just start writing what you already know, and as you go, you can add research, stories, and illustrations.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty much it.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Easy peasy, right?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's very streamlined.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is a very a very straightforward process that anybody can do.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now, one thing that I would add to this is that a great place to get questions related to your topic is on social media.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: For example, just put a post up on Facebook asking for the biggest questions related to your topic.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if you're writing a book on gardening, just put a put a post up on Facebook, hey, what are your biggest questions or problems or frustrations when it comes to gardening or whatever your topic is?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you might be surprised at the interesting responses you get.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Probably you'll get some questions related to your topic that you had never thought of before, or questions that are framed in a different way or phrased in a different way.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And those can then prompt other topics or questions that you would have in your own mind.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: So the more that you involve people in this process, probably the higher quality questions you're going to get because you're going to have a larger sampling uh size, if you will.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: So that's takeaway number one, Adrian's process for figuring out your book content and getting started.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Takeaway number two is simply to make it easy for the launch team.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Make it easy for people to sign up and to get involved, make it easy for them to read your book, to share the book, and to leave reviews.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: The easier that you make it for people on your launch team, the more likely it is that they're going to follow through and to be excited about the process.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: If the whole thing is really complicated or, you know, it's hard for them to get the book or to have access to things or information related to the launch, they're probably not going to follow through with it.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: So make it as easy as you can for them.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Then finally, number three, don't be afraid to try new things.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Don't overthink the process.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, man, this is really great advice that Adrian shared with us.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: It is scary to put a book out there in the world, but you won't grow if you don't get uncomfortable with the whole process.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: Discomfort and facing your fears are part of the whole growth process.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do this, other people see your example and they know they can do it as well.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that is it for this episode.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: I want to give a massive thank you to our special guest, Adrian Lance.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I also want to point you to a couple of things that Adrian has made available for us.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: There is a special link that Adrian shared, which is adrianlance.net slash three keys.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's a number three, then the word keys.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: And this link will take you to information about the book and give you access to one week of the companion course for free, which is pretty awesome.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: Also, Adrian has set up a special discount, or I'm sorry, a special coupon code for you whenever you order through Adrian's store.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever you order the book or the companion journal through his store, which you can access at adrianlance.net, use the coupon code SBW10.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's SBW10.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, thanks so much for listening.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'll see you in the next episode.