Latest / The You Project / #2164 The Beginning of Wisdom - Prof. Beau Lotto

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#2164 The Beginning of Wisdom - Prof. Beau Lotto · The You Project

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  Speaker 1: Good eight Team.
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Boloto is back neuroscientist or to speaker entrepreneur whose
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  Speaker 2: work explores how the brain constructs reality and adapts to uncertainty,
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  Speaker 2: and lots of other stuff. He's been very busy. It's
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  Speaker 2: been a long time since we caught up. I thought
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  Speaker 2: he dropped me. I thought he discarded me, like like
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  Speaker 2: you know, a milk bottle in the bin. But apparently
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  Speaker 2: apparently we're still friends. So no more therapy for me,
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  Speaker 2: well maybe less therapy for me. Hi, mate, how are you?
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  Speaker 1: And really good as always? Lovely to see you. Actually, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: thanks man. Last time I think I was an obitha
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  Speaker 1: when we talked. Yeah, you were just showing off.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm saving up for a trip to see
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  Speaker 2: Wherever I say is not going to be funny to
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  Speaker 2: you because you're not familiar with Australia.
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  Speaker 3: How long you've been? Where are you now? You're in
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  Speaker 3: the States. Where are you.
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  Speaker 1: Moved? On? England? West England? If you know where Bristol
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  Speaker 1: and Batho just south of there for about forty good London,
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  Speaker 1: hell left?
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  Speaker 3: How long you been there?
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  Speaker 1: I've been here for about three years. I had a
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  Speaker 1: new little gremlin. I have now four Gremlins. He's now
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  Speaker 1: three years old. Wow, it's a new edition since we
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  Speaker 1: last spoke. Wow.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that doesn't type much tim or energy.
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  Speaker 1: That's true.
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  Speaker 3: What kind of what kind of father are you?
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  Speaker 1: Oh God, I hope a funny one. I mean funny
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  Speaker 1: to be with, not to laugh at. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: well it depends. Uh yeah, you know. I was thinking,
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  Speaker 1: you know, like, there are lots of things one can
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  Speaker 1: do in the world, and you know, to bring a
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  Speaker 1: life into the world and hopefully have that life be
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  Speaker 1: a kind life. Yeah, I feel like that's there's very
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  Speaker 1: few things that are more wonderful than that.
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  Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of a lot of parents
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  Speaker 2: start to interrupt. I feel like a lot of parents,
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  Speaker 2: which is not a not an insult or a slight,
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  Speaker 2: but a very very strategic and very methodical and they've
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  Speaker 2: got everything as planned and Mark ro I managed.
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  Speaker 3: I don't say you as that guy.
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  Speaker 1: No, I take more of a Darwinian approach. I say, look,
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  Speaker 1: I can have another.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah if I die in the backyard. If I die
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  Speaker 3: in the backyard, I die.
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  Speaker 1: Oh No, I I think I believe that, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: I'm hoping to be able to create a foundation for
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  Speaker 1: my kids just do a bit better than me. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I feel like that's that's there. That would be a
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  Speaker 1: great end. They already are, I mean thinking about how
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  Speaker 1: they think and what they talk about, and and I
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  Speaker 1: say to them and it's like, my aim was not
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  Speaker 1: that you're going to that I was going to be perfect.
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  Speaker 1: My aim is going to be that you're going to
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  Speaker 1: do better and be someone who can evolve because I
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  Speaker 1: wasn't perfectly neat, because you had this space to question
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  Speaker 1: and figure it out, but always a place to come
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  Speaker 1: back to. So I use the metaphor of a sandbar.
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  Speaker 1: And I also do this and think about leadership training
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  Speaker 1: for instance, But it's true fundamentally in love in general.
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  Speaker 1: I think the greatest thing of love is to empower
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  Speaker 1: the people who love to take risk, not to not
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  Speaker 1: to not to protect them from risk. So I say
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  Speaker 1: to my kids and others, you know, it's like, but
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  Speaker 1: my kids, like, you want to swim, and because you
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  Speaker 1: love swimming, and I'm not your boat. I'm not going
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  Speaker 1: to pull you out of the water and take the
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  Speaker 1: other side because you love to swim, but you're going
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  Speaker 1: to get tired, and you know what, you can come
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  Speaker 1: back in and you can stand on the sandbar and
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  Speaker 1: you can rest you still be in the water, and
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  Speaker 1: then you can and then you swim again, and you
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  Speaker 1: come back and eventually you're going to be strong enough
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  Speaker 1: to swim to the other side. Right, And isn't that
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  Speaker 1: like my mom she just recently died and she said,
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  Speaker 1: children are only on loan to us, They don't belong
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  Speaker 1: to us.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, wow, wow.
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  Speaker 1: And our role is to empower them, not just to
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  Speaker 1: you know, figure out who they are, but to create
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  Speaker 1: who they are. And we do that through being a sandbar.
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  Speaker 1: Now in Australia, I suppose when they didn't get eaten
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  Speaker 1: by sharks, but I mean there is that.
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  Speaker 3: We got a lot of literal sandbars over here.
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  Speaker 1: D yeah and so so and then you know, and
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  Speaker 1: then there's a whole wonderful metaphor there and I'm a sailor,
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  Speaker 1: you know, And then you think, like, we just started
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  Speaker 1: a school here as well in England called the Hummingbird
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  Speaker 1: Humminger Learning Lab. And it's really about we you know,
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  Speaker 1: we're we teach children how to be sue chefs, not chefs.
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  Speaker 1: We teach them how to you know, teach them how
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  Speaker 1: to sail by saying, well, here's a diagram of a boat. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: here's instruction manual. And you know, now just memorize that bit.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you teach people to sail by being on
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  Speaker 1: a boat, but you're on a boat with them. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: And and I love the metaphor of a boat and
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  Speaker 1: a sailboat in particular because I talk about how in
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  Speaker 1: this world is constant change. Yes, you know, there is
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  Speaker 1: a number of ways you can change with change. You
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  Speaker 1: can just be a piece of driftwood and just go
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  Speaker 1: with the currents and all that kind of stuff. And
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  Speaker 1: people say, yeah, just go with the flow. But you're
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  Speaker 1: always behind right life, So we tar you're always you're
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  Speaker 1: just getting you know, beach to and then banging up
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  Speaker 1: against rocks and it's like and you're a victim in that.
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  Speaker 1: It's like everything always happens to me. It's like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: because you're driftwood. Or you can be like a booye
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  Speaker 1: and just anchor yourself down and pretend that you're not
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  Speaker 1: on the river. But the reality is life's a river,
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  Speaker 1: right and we all know where it's going. It's going
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  Speaker 1: to the waterfall, and so you know, you can pretend
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  Speaker 1: that you're not on the river, try to control it.
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  Speaker 1: But you can't control the river. Or you can be
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  Speaker 1: like a powerboat. And it says like power what your
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  Speaker 1: way through? You burn all kinds of petrol, you make
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  Speaker 1: everyone seasick, you create a massive wake, right, but you know,
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  Speaker 1: like I know what I'm doing, but no one really
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  Speaker 1: knows what They're doing. Or you can be a sailor,
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  Speaker 1: right yea, And what does a sailor do. The sailor
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  Speaker 1: works with the energy of change to propel themselves forward.
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  Speaker 1: So I want my kids to become sailors, but you
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  Speaker 1: have to be on the boat with them. They have
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  Speaker 1: to be on a boat and you know, feel the
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  Speaker 1: wind and and learn how to navigate the river. Not
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  Speaker 1: to control it, but to navigate it anyway. That's what
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  Speaker 1: life hat. That's I like to be as a father.
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  Speaker 3: No, I like that. I mean life happens despite you,
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  Speaker 3: not because of you. Yeah, yeah, you.
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  Speaker 1: Know and absolutely And if you think about, like our
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  Speaker 1: past conversation a number of years ago, like why are
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  Speaker 1: why do I see what I do? Is because well,
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  Speaker 1: the history of not of what something turned out to be,
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  Speaker 1: but the history of how I perceived it before. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: And that's what my brain encodes. It's the history of
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  Speaker 1: my past meetings. Now thinking about parenting, I see so
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  Speaker 1: many parents this cost we come a whole conversation about parenting.
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  Speaker 1: To me, it's an amazing topic because we're not taught
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  Speaker 1: how to be parents. Most of us are screwing up
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  Speaker 1: because we had parents to screwed up, cetera. You know,
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  Speaker 1: we're figuring it out, we're doing our best. But they
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  Speaker 1: that you know, someone will a parent will take their
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  Speaker 1: kid to a playground and you know, a merry go
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  Speaker 1: round or something like that. And I remember this one
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  Speaker 1: parent the yo yo this ride and yeah, well the
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  Speaker 1: parent she was afraid of the ride, so she said
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  Speaker 1: for children, that's dangerous.
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  Speaker 3: They had never experienced it before.
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  Speaker 1: Now, after a couple of years of knowing them, the
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  Speaker 1: kids who comes to the playground or not to depend
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  Speaker 1: on the merriyaan thing and they wouldn't go on the thing.
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  Speaker 1: They literally felt the fear of this thing that they
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  Speaker 1: never actually literally experienced in themselves. Now that child will
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  Speaker 1: grow up and they will tell their child, ooh, that's
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  Speaker 1: a dangerous thing. They've never literally been on it, but
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  Speaker 1: their brain will feel all these things because the parent
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  Speaker 1: actually impose their own fears onto their child. Affecting their
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  Speaker 1: behavior and now that child's embody it and they would
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  Speaker 1: never know that that was happening. And of course the
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  Speaker 1: parents doing it in order to protect them, so to speak.
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  Speaker 1: About what they're doing is they're actually just projecting their
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  Speaker 1: assumptions bias onto their kid. They're not letting their kids
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  Speaker 1: figure it out for themselves and being that good in
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  Speaker 1: place that empowers them to do so.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, good intentions, bad outcomes. And you know, that's an
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  Speaker 2: example of telling people what to think rather than teaching
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  Speaker 2: them how to think, or teaching them what to think
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  Speaker 2: rather than teaching them how to think, have experiences, come
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  Speaker 2: to their own conclusions, figure it out.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, you think about we've.
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  Speaker 2: Spoken about this, not you and I so much, but
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  Speaker 2: this idea that we wake up one day and let's
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  Speaker 2: say we're twenty years old, and you've got all these values,
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  Speaker 2: all these beliefs, all these ideas, all these stories, all
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  Speaker 2: this interpretation of all the external data you know, and
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  Speaker 2: you didn't choose almost any of it, like your beliefs.
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  Speaker 2: It's almost social osmosis, right, It's like I believe this
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  Speaker 2: because dad believes this, and Dad's dad. Dad's smarter than me.
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  Speaker 2: So this is the truth. This is the unequivocal, infallible truth.
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  Speaker 2: So now my belief is this. And when I ask
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  Speaker 2: people where did that belief come from? When did you
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  Speaker 2: choose that belief or when did you buy into that?
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  Speaker 2: It's like, wow, it's always been there, you know, that
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  Speaker 2: metacognitive process of just thinking about why do I believe this?
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  Speaker 3: Could it be bullshit? Where did this idea come from? Why?
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  Speaker 2: And of course this is very much in your space.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, why do I see the world the
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  Speaker 2: way that I do? And what's the difference between the
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  Speaker 2: objective reality of a thing and my subjective story about
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  Speaker 2: that objective reality?
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  Speaker 3: And I talk about this window that.
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  Speaker 2: We all view the world through, which I'm sure you
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  Speaker 2: have a similar metaphor, but most of us don't even
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  Speaker 2: know about the window.
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  Speaker 3: We just think we're seeing the world.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, we think we see in the world. We behave
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  Speaker 1: as if that's right, and then we'll you know, well,
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  Speaker 1: then we'll have tolerance. Right. It's like Craig, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's you know, you know, I'm so open. I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to be tolerant of your perceptions of the world. In
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  Speaker 1: other words, I've got it right, But I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: tolerate the fact that you don't have it right, that
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  Speaker 1: you don't see it like me. Now, this is IMPOSSI
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  Speaker 1: minor relativesm. Some ways of seeing are just better than others. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they're more they're more useful, they're more powerful, the more generous,
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  Speaker 1: whatever it might be. So you know, there are some
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  Speaker 1: ways of seeing that are that are just better. But
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  Speaker 1: they're contextual. But that said, none of us really know
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  Speaker 1: what that is. We got to figure that out often
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  Speaker 1: when I you know, like I said, when I'm talking
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  Speaker 1: to the senior leaders, the whole audience of them, they're
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  Speaker 1: doing very very well for themselves, but I say, you
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  Speaker 1: do realize none of you know what you're doing. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: And there is this kind of collective side of relief like,
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  Speaker 1: oh god, someone finally said it. And because that's just true.
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  Speaker 1: You know, life is a complex adaptive system. You have
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  Speaker 1: no idea of decision you make right now is going
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  Speaker 1: to be good in the future, because the future is
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  Speaker 1: literally unpredictable because it's nonlinear. It's interconnected, right, and it's chaotic.
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  Speaker 1: You add small, one small weight of a skier to
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  Speaker 1: a hillside and the whole hillside can give way. It's
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  Speaker 1: an avalanche, small input, massive effect or a huge amount
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  Speaker 1: of input and no effect. Right, Yes, so you have
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  Speaker 1: no idea. So we're but which is why one of
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  Speaker 1: our biggest barriers to change in evolution and evolution of
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  Speaker 1: thought is our certainty. Yes, we are just so certain.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of the biggest things that we're
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  Speaker 1: facing right now is just our certainty. I mean, one
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  Speaker 1: of the things I would love for your audience to
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  Speaker 1: walk away from this conversation is just doubt. Yeah, just
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  Speaker 1: a bit more doubt, because within doubt you get humility.
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  Speaker 1: But then everyone's got these you know that they inherited
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  Speaker 1: these views from their parents, whoever it might be a society,
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  Speaker 1: and then they behave as if that's truth. And it
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  Speaker 1: might be great. It's not to say that it's not.
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  Speaker 1: It might be a brilliant idea, but to your point,
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  Speaker 1: it's like, do you even know where it came from?
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  Speaker 1: It's like one of we've just always been here.
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  Speaker 2: I talk about the I talk about the uns, both uns,
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  Speaker 2: the uns uncertain, unpredictable, unfamiliar, uncomfortable, all the places that
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  Speaker 2: we grow learn evolve with that to become rebuild resilience.
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  Speaker 2: It's like we avoid the stuff that is the best stuff,
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  Speaker 2: like experience. In the moment, it might not feel great,
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  Speaker 2: but when you're constantly choosing certainty, predictability, familiarity, comfort, you
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  Speaker 2: don't realize you're building an emotional and psychological prison for
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  Speaker 2: yourself that actually diminishes your life.
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  Speaker 1: It demonstrated because our brain evolved to get an intrinsic
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  Speaker 1: reward when we come to understand something. Yeah, when you
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  Speaker 1: learn something and not just a fact, but an understanding.
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  Speaker 1: By understanding, I mean you're understanding not just the knowledge
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  Speaker 1: of the thing, but the connections between stuff. So a
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  Speaker 1: chef understands food, a sous chef knows how to prepare
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  Speaker 1: the recipe, but here she has no idea why the
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  Speaker 1: risk recipe is even there. As a consequence, a so
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  Speaker 1: chef can't adapt because they don't know why it's there.
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  Speaker 1: Whereas they don't they lack understanding. They have knowledge, but
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  Speaker 1: they lack understanding. Whereas a chef understands stuff. And it's
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  Speaker 1: hard to get understanding because your first step, I call
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  Speaker 1: it the discovery spiral. Your first step to go from
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  Speaker 1: knowing to understanding is doubt. You got a doubt, you
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  Speaker 1: then deviate, you diversify your experience. You're distill a principle
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  Speaker 1: and then you decide what to do and then you
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  Speaker 1: actually dare to do it. Yes, and then in the
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  Speaker 1: daring to do it, you get feedback and it's like, oh,
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  Speaker 1: that didn't work very well or I'll adapt, right, but
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  Speaker 1: you have to have that doubt piece. But we don't
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  Speaker 1: want to do that because that's uncertain and we've been
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  Speaker 1: educated to know. We get rewarded for knowing stuff. We
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  Speaker 1: don't get rewarded for a great questions or you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: think about even your interpersonal romantic relationships. You ask your
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  Speaker 1: partner questions like why are you asking me that? What
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  Speaker 1: are you implying about that? It's like, how can I
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  Speaker 1: understand you if I don't ask a question? Yes, yes, right, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: there's there's no inference here. There's just curiosity. I don't
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  Speaker 1: know something and I know that you know that, so
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  Speaker 1: it I think also, you know you know this better
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  Speaker 1: than me. But there's an idea in psychology called the
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  Speaker 1: false consensus effect where people just think that other people
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  Speaker 1: think like them.
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  Speaker 3: So there's this big disconnect with that.
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  Speaker 2: As well, right where I'm assuming that my intention will
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  Speaker 2: be your experience because to me, it makes sense to me,
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  Speaker 2: it's clear to me, it's it's well intended. But that's
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  Speaker 2: not necessary the receiver's experience right.
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  Speaker 1: Now, that's right, which is why I try in my
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  Speaker 1: own teams and my own conversations. Let's say, let's say
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  Speaker 1: with the school that we're starting, we started, and the
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  Speaker 1: co founder school someone called Dave Strudwick, absolutely wonderful individual
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  Speaker 1: I've been working with from years, is just absolutely brilliant
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  Speaker 1: at what he does, and he's done it for decades.
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  Speaker 1: I ask people, you know, have you ever taught class?
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  Speaker 1: They say, oh yeah, and it's like, how long a
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: couple of days? How do you feel the exhausted? I say, Now,
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  Speaker 1: this guy does it for thirty years. Right. Anyway, We'll
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  Speaker 1: be in conversations and he'll use a word. Now that
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  Speaker 1: word will have a meaning in the education space. I
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  Speaker 1: don't know, but that word is maybe some word I use,
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  Speaker 1: and so I'll pause and I say, okay, Dave, you
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  Speaker 1: just use this word. I want to make sure I
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  Speaker 1: understand your meaning of that word. So the same thing,
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  Speaker 1: because I have it, because I'm aware that I'm naive
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  Speaker 1: in your space. Yes, And if I say a curriculum right,
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  Speaker 1: for instance, or pedagogy. It's like, I will have a
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  Speaker 1: sense of that, but we now get in a conflict
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  Speaker 1: because what we're talking about is we think we're referring
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: to the same thing, but actually our backstort to each
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  Speaker 1: other working looking at different walls, and it's like, no,
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  Speaker 1: the wall looks like this, and the other person, no,
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  Speaker 1: it looks like that. What they don't realize is they're
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: actually looking at different walls, but they're using the same
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  Speaker 1: word because what they're in conflict about is the meaning,
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  Speaker 1: because they assume, to your point, that they had the
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  Speaker 1: same meaning, Because why would I Yes, I got myself
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  Speaker 1: to this point. I'm a pretty good person. Surely this
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  Speaker 1: is great way to do it. If I'm saying it
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  Speaker 1: this way, you must agree, or you must at least
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  Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying.
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  Speaker 3: What is the Oh sorry, finish that.
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  Speaker 1: Sorry.
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  Speaker 4: I was just going to say this drive that we
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  Speaker 4: have the collective we different people, different things, of course,
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  Speaker 4: but the need that we have to be right.
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  Speaker 3: And I don't know if it's now.
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  Speaker 2: More than ever, but fuck, it's like in Australia, you
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  Speaker 2: can't you can't disagree with anyone because if you disagree,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: you're you're the fucking spawn of Satan, Like you're the enemy.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: It's like, dude, we just you think. Hey, I think,
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: b that's cool.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: What is the resistance is that because I feel like
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: what we think or what we believe forms a large
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: part of who we think we are, and our identity
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: is tied into this. Right, So when you attack my ideology, philosophy, theology,
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: all the ologies, when you attack that, you attack me,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: So fuck off, Well what are your thoughts around that?
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And what's more, will hold stronger if I show you
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: data to show that you're wrong, you'll hold stronger that
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: view than you did before. In other words, I've shifted
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you from belief to faith, because faith is to believe
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: in something without evidence correct. And so now I even
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: have evidence against me. But now actually I'm going to
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: celebrate the fact that I'm going to hold on to
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: it because think about heroes you've never had sort of
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: like a critical thinking hero, right, the hero is sort
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: of like, you know the world's coming to an end,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: but I know I can save it. All the data
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: is showing me the opposite, But I have faith in
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: my abilities or whatever, and we're gonna we're gonna save
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the day, and we love it, right, we go to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that that's brilliant, and actually there's an element of truth
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: in that. Right, the best things in life don't actually
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: make sense. The best things in life typically are not average,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: are not normal, but also sort of some of the
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: worst things in life, right, So and so we I
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: think in times of uncertainty, Yeah, the reality is that
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: life has always been uncertain. But the pace of changes
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: is probably greater now than it ever has. But it's
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: always been certain. And I don't think that it's uncertainty
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: that does our problem. We have, you know, people talking
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: about uncertainty experts and all this kind of stuff. You
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: can't be an expert uncertainty. But what I because if
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I say, Craig, you know what, tomorrow totally unpredictable. Yeah,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: it's going to be the best day of your life.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: It's going to be the best of your life. But
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: you know it's going to be totally unpredictable. You're probably
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: gonna be like, you know, I'm pretty good with.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: That, yeah, I mean, I mean yeah.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Whereas so, I think what people really fear is that
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: they won't that they won't actually be able to rise
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: to the unpredictable future. That's in front of them, that
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I won't be good enough, that I'm not gonna be
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: able to a death. So I personally think that when
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: it comes. So therefore I have to hold onto my certainty.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't have to engineer a life to make sure
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: this certainty makes sense. Yes, because if you're on a point,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: there's no place for you to go if something changes.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: So I've got an engineer and control life. I have
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to control you, I have to control others to make
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: sure that this point makes sense. The irony is that
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: there's tremendous fragility in that. There's anger in that because
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: if you're if I at the world changes, it's someone
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: else's fault, et cetera. And I'm actually angry with myself
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: that I can't adapt to that. But now if I
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: evolve myself, I open myself up to learning. I am
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: now on a line. I can go forward or backward,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: or now I'm on a planet, go forward, backward, right
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: or left, or I can go up and down. Suddenly
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I have agility and flexibility. But I can only get
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: there through the process of asking a question. I through
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the process of stepping away from knowing Yeah. So it's
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: that stepping away. But then that's a brilliant thing. You know.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: The problem The problem is not you know that's to
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: be in conflict. But the problem isn't conflict. The problem
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: is how we're entering it. You know. So you have
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: people like Simon Staking and the colony. You know, we
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: have to learn how to have difficult conversations and all
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: that's true in a way, but it's only true if
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: you and I don't want to move. Yeah, right, If
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to move you and you're trying to move me,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: we now have a difficult conversation. But if both of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: us want to move, the conflict now becomes the engine
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of our own wellbeing because we're both going to move
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: away from where we are ideally not even towards each other.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: It'll be into a new space where both kind of
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: makes sense. So we've learned something that neither of us predicted.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Then you'll get that intrinsic reward, you'll get the dopamine
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: hit and all that kind of stuff, and then do
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: it again. So that's the best way to save all
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: kinds of money on therapy, and a couple's there, enter
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: with the desire to move away from where you are
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: and make sure the other person wants to do that
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: as well. It's no longer a difficult conversation. It's actually
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a beautiful one. Yeah.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: It's like the need that we have again, not everyone,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: not all the time, but the need for certainty and
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: predictability in a world that's uncertain and unpredictability, unpredictable. It's
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: like a self created prison, emotional anchor whatever metaphor you
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: want to call it. But you build, you construct this
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: thing in your head. That's not possible in the world
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: because everything is fluid, everything is dynamic, you know, So
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: we are constantly wanted or not like it, or not
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: having to adapt on a level every day to something
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: big or small.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: But we're so resistant to that. It's like, you spoke
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: to me.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I think it was off air about your mum passing
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: away recently, and my parents are both eighty six, and
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: there's lots of stuff going there's just it's just constant
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: uncertainty in medical mayhem, and in the middle of all
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: of this, I realize, oh fuck, I'm not in control
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: of any of this. I'm just I'm just adapting, improvising, surviving,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: sometimes thriving, trying to be what they need and the
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: whole thing is so dynamic and so out of my
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: control that, you know, that whole equanimity, you know, just
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: trying to be the calm in the chaos, just trying
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: not to be controlled by what's happening, but you know,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: and not controlling what's happening either, but just being Okay.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: It's like, well, that's right.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do what I can with what I've got.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to waste energy on shit I can't control.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pay attention to what I can control,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: and you know, not kill myself in the middle of
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: it all.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree. I'd use a slightly different word
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: other than control them, which is agency. Right, So we
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: can't control the river, but we can have agency on
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: the river. Yes, we can have agency in our life,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean we control a life. We can
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: have agency in a relationship, but without trying to control
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the relationship. And I think one of our biggest problems
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: is that we do try to control, and we need
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: to let go of control. But that doesn't mean you
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: become driftwood. A sailor does not try to control the sea.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: The sailor navigates the sea using the actual forces of
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: change I mentioned before, to be able to propel themselves forward.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: They use the wind, they use the ways, they use
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the currents, right, and so they're constantly being They're constantly
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: adapting and being agile on that. And the reality is
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: that we get all this for free. Your brain evolved
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to adapt, it's adapting. Right now, you're hearing words. I'm
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: hearing words. Our synaptic weights are changing. The light levels
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: in my room are changing. My perception is changing because
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: of those light levels. You get adapting for free, you
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: get resilience for free, you get agility for free. You
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: get all these things for free. Yeah right, that's not
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the issue. You get imagination for free. But imagination everyone says, Oh,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: imagination is great. No, it's not. If I imagine a
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: terrible thing is going to happen, that's pretty rubbish. Right now,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to step out of my door because
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I'm imagining something terrible is on the other side of door.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: So imagination is not good or bad, right, I'm now imagining.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: But you get it for free. What you don't get
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: for free is agency. You gotta make a choice about so,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and that's where I personally think in this time of
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: tremendous change, we kind of need a certainty from which
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: to step in towards there, a basis by which to
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: have that agency. And that's what I call how you
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: approach life. That's your character. It's also my mom, like
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: you just made reference and recently died, And she has
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: a number of wonderful phrases, just a few. I'll share
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: one of them, which is She said, she reduced life
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: to thirteen words. Life is a series of choices, and
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: the essence of life is life love one another. Every
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: decision you'll make is yeah, is grounded in is this loving?
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: And I make a distinction between feeling love and being loving.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: You can be in a relationship someone I feel so
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: much love, but they're also narcissistic, right, everything's about them.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: That doesn't mean they don't feel love. It's just that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: how I express my love is what I get from this.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: So I make it sense to me in that and
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: being loving? Being loving is an act right. Someone can
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: abuse their child and say they love them, but are
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: they being loving? They can abuse their partner, but are
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: they being loving? Right? And so having that is your
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: ground truth is fundamental. The other phrase she also had
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: is we have to walk through life with a tilt,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: because she said, if you walk through life standing straight up,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: you know, you get it blown over. Because it's like
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: walking in through the wind. You have to lean into
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the wind, and you lean into the wind with humor. Yeah,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: if you talk about the people who've gone through the
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: most terrible things have come through the other side, humor
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: was almost always part of that process. In other words,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: being able to see something differently, which is why it
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: to Italia. Tybian governments they block questions, they block humor,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you know, and during the times of the royals, you know,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: only the joker could speak truth to the king, but
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: he had to do it through humor. Right, Humor is
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: orwell says, every joke is a tiny revolution. Yes, it
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: could be different. So the point is we also have
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to not laugh at to a certain life. But we
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: have to have dark humure. We have to see the humor.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: So my mom would be annoyed if we weren't able
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to see the humor in in in her life and
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: her death. You know, she's she's fundamentally tilted. Now, yes, yes,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: tell me a bit about your mom. Was she an academic?
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Where did this wisdom come from Uh, I think to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: a certaince that it came from. I have tremendous respect
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: for her because it turns out she had a lot
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: of fear rot right, And I think that I find
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: people who, you know, say I'm fearless and all this
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. It's like, well, that's kind of interesting,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: but I'm kind of more interested in someone who's doing
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: something with the fear. Yes, like, where do our So
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: that's what I where I spect. It's like she had tremispheres,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: but that didn't stop her.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, she was courageous in the middle of the fear.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Which is exactly which is why I have my ten ss.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: So what are those principles? What are those human behaviors,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the human capacities that your brain evolved involve itself. I
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: call them the ten sees. One of them is courage,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: not confidence. Yes, confidence, It's like you already know what's
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: going to happen, you're deluding yourself, but you know with courage,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: you're doing it despite knowing it's probably going to fail. Yes, Yes,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: and that's far more interesting.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: I have a question for you around and then we'd
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: better do some listener questions because my and then we're
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: going to talk about something exciting that you're doing that
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I'm excited about as well. This could be a long
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: podcast everyone, So get yourself cup ty, maybe hit pause,
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: get yourself cup of tea, put yourself in the lean bag,
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: get comfy. So all my researchers around meta perception and
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: meta accuracy, you know, understanding how others experience us. And
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: it's funny when I explain that briefly to somebody who
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: doesn't get the totality of you know, the reasoning and
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the rationale and the science behind it.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Some people like, I don't give a fuck what people
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: think to me. I'm just gonna I'm just going to
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: be myself.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: And if people don't, I'm like, and I have to
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: explain to them, Well, I'm not saying that you should
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: worry about Hey, we're not talking about your ego or
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: you know, we're not talking about being concerned with whether
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: or not you're popular. It's just really having an insight
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: into the you experience. You know, I as somebody who
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: has tous of listeners and talk to audiences, corporates and coaches.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: One on one and all of the stuff.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying I'm brilliant at it, But I
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: need to have a pretty good radar on how I'm
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: perceived and processed and experienced by others so that I
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: can relate to them, understand them quickly to an extent,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: build rapport, connection, trust and respect.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: Right, how do you how do you think?
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Like, what do you think the Bolotto experiences for people
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: around you? Do you ever think about that from a
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: communication or a leadership or a teamwork point of view,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: about the way that others experience you?
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: And no. For one, we will necessarily be blind to
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: how someone else perceives. We can never ultimately understand what
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: someone perceives other than through the words they use. That's one.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: So we can never be inside their heads. But I
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: think it's fundamentally important because you're in a relationship, and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: if you're speaking to your audience, you're in a relationship
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: with that audience. Yes as well, Right, And I think
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the best speakers are the best listeners. They're listening to
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: their audience while they're speaking. You can always tell someone
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: who's a very good speaker in some sense, but you
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: can tell it's about them, it's not about the audience. Yes,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: So I think to be able to empower someone it
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: requires having a relationship that is self aware, and part
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of that self awareness is the impact you have on
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: others and how they're perceiving. That doesn't mean that they're right.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: It could be however, that you know, one of the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: best people to reveal you to you is usually not you, right,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: it's usually someone else. And I make this distinction between
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: self honesty and my truth. So another person who just
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: recently died just after my mom was my uncle. And
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: it's been a rough year. Wow, there's a number of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: deaths this year, and that's just two of a few.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: But the and I just I had a conversation with
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: him just before he went into a life threatening surgery
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: which he survived, and I said, what does it mean
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: to be a good man and by extension, a good person,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: you know, at ninety years old? And he said, it's
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: the pursuit of self honesty? Wow? Wow? And he said,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: because if you're honest with yourself, you can't help but
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: be humble, because you'll realize you're a bit of an idiot.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And creativity begins with humility. Innovation begins with humility, you mean,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: because humility is to have the courage to not know
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: but still want to step forward. Nothing interesting in anyone's life,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: all your listeners, nothing interesting. Began with knowing it, began
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: with not knowing it, began with a question, began with doubt.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: If you already know it, there's no place for you
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: to go. If you're perfect, there's no place for you
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: to go. You're all deficient. Yes, that's part of our completeness.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: If we weren't deficient, you know, there would be no
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: place for us to go. So in thinking like about
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: my little guy who was just recently born. He's now three,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: but you know, he is an absolutely When he was
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: a baby, especially, he was a perfect baby, wonderful baby,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: complete baby, absolutely, useless adult right, absolutely disaster. As adult
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: he would be literally in an insane asylum if you
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: blew him up and made him an adult, yes, right,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I mean it'd be a nightmare. And just the other day,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: you know, he found some chocolate and he was unwrapped
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: he hid and was unrappling the Easter eggs and pulling
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: in his nappy in the corner. It'd be like if
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that were an adult, he'd be like, oh my goodness,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? But as a baby, it's like, oh,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: that's hysterical. That's adorable. Right, So he is a complete baby,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: but a deficient adult. Put a different way, a seed
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: is a complete seed, but a deficient tree. Yes. Yes,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: what's beautiful about little Blue or the seat is what
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: they can become. But what they become is very much
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: a function of them and how they're going to enter
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: the world and the world around them. And part of
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: that world is other people. So we have to understand
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: how do you perceive me? Because now I can better
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: have empathy in our conversation. Yeah, because I find that
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: too often. You know, psychologists, you know, they'll tell you know,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: if you want to if you want to convince someone
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: of someone, if you want to convince Craig or something,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you'll find kind of find common interest. Oh we both
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: like arsenal whatever, right, whatever I be. It's like, oh,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that's cool. Now let's talk about Trump. It's like to me,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that's his whole manipulation.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: But if I say to you, Craig, you know what,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: I disagree with everything you say, But you're a smart guy.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: There must be something in what you believe that I
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: can learn from or at least to learn about you,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: or I could expand my perception about what it is
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: to be in Australia or whatever it might be. You're
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: now more likely, I imagine, to a approach me with
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: honesty and with lower defense because I'm reaching out to say,
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I want to learn from this situation, if only to
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: learn what it is to be you. When you approach
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: it that way, you can have a conversation with anyone, right,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: but if I have to get validation from you, or
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I have to be right in front of you, there's
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: only very few people I can speak to. Yeah, So yes,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the power of being aware of what other people think
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: and then you have I was on a podcast recently
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: to someone who's like taking a very strong view of saying,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I should be just to be able to
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: say whatever I want to say, And it's like, that's true,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you should, But it also depends what your intention is.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: If your intention is just if that's its only benefit,
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: just that you got a voice what you said, however
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: you said it great, but kind of who cares. But
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to actually engage with someone, evolve something
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: someone and yourself, then it does matter how you say
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: what you're saying exactly.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Think about right now, like we're trying to share or
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: talk about recently complicated concepts and constructs and ideas.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: But we know we're not talking to an.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Auditorium full of academics, right so, and of course a
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: percentage of my audience are academics, but a small that's
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: a small percentage. So I'm always thinking, how do I
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: share this thought, idea, whatever it is, this truth or
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: this perhaps perceived truth with people in a way that
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: makes sense, that's potentially helpful, that's understandable, that's not confusing,
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: and even down to the point where I try very
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: much not to unless it's somebody brand new that I
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: don't know. I'll do some research and all, but I
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: don't want to interview you. I want to talk to
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: you because me interviewing you is boring me. Go and
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: here's question five, bo cool, great answer, here's question who
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: that that's crap.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Nobody wants to listen to that.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: And just being aware that I am not talking to myself.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking to a version of me in the audience,
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: And so I'm trying to understand how do it? And
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: we can't totally resonate with thousands of people at once,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: but how do we make that the most likely, Like,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: how do we turn up the volume or the likelihood
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: of talking about the stuff we're talking about in a
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: way which is engaging and interesting but also people will
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: be able to Sometimes I even say, you know, operationalize that,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and then I realize people don't use that word, right,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: and I go put that into practice or use that
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: or So that's that, Like who's your audience, Like where
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: are they at? What's something that I can share and
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: how do I share that in a way that's going
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: to be more than likely valuable to people who need
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: to hear that. So like when I first started my
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: pH d, and I hadn't studied for twenty years, right,
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I hadn't been to university for twenty years, And I
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: remember sitting in meetings, you know, the whole gang, the
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: whole all the PhD students, faculty, all the smarter than
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: me people. I remember sitting in there in the first
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: few weeks of these weekly meetings thinking I'm literally too
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: stupid to be here because I didn't understand some of
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: the language and even the terminology around, you know, just
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: the stuff, and you go, oh, and my analogy to
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: people is it's like I was in Russia and everyone speaking,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and what they're saying is maybe true and makes sense,
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't make sense to me because I don't
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: speak Russian.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: And so just that you know, it's not just is
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: the information.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Good or potentially valuable, but how do I how do
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I share it in a way which lands not for
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: you and not for me, but for the listener. And
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: whether that's an audience of one or a thousand in
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: an auditorium or a bunch of people on a podcast,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: that's for me an important question to ask and answer.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of I don't have an answer.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: I have a hypothesis, and I do pub engagement the law.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I'm a public speaker. I often do one on ones
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: with people like yourself, and I also have relationships I
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: hope with my kids and my partner and friends and
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: all that, So to me, it kind of transcends. But
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I think one of the first fundamental needs is that
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: you care. Yeah, that's one, And then what is it
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: that you're caring about? Yes, right, so people say, oh,
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I care, But you know, that's why you have a
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: lot of people talking about purpose. I'm not a huge
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: fan of purpose. I understand what people are saying with purpose,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: but to purpose can be incredibly selfish. It's also self focused,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: whereas I like to think more of the word about relevance,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: because relevance usually implies something or someone else. How you
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: relevant in life, how you relevant to yourself, how you
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: relevant to your partner, et cetera. So it's that you
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: care and what you care about, and the sense that
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: you actually care about what you're talking about. I remember,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: very early in my career of public speaking, first time
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: people were applying a ticket, you know, to hear me speak,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and then I realize, oh, my name est use people
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: have a clue who I am. They're not buying a
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: ticket to see me. They're here to learn something, to
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: get a message, to feel motivated. In other words, it's
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: about the content, not the person. The person's just the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: deliverer of that. Yeah, and that every decision one makes
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: should be in the decision of what's best for the
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: audience or the person to whom you're speaking. So that's
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: the care. And then it's about listening. People say, well,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: what does it mean you know to listen? Well, well,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: what does that even mean? And I think to listen
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: well is not to let go of your biases. That's impossible.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Is to become aware that one moment something you said earlier,
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: which is that people don't even aware that they have
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: biases like is to know that you have them. It's like, okay,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: I've got them. Sure, I've got assumptions here. That's the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: first step. The second is to become aware of what
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: they are. And often what you do is you discover
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: what your assumptions are through that process and isn't that wonderful?
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: But instead we see it as challenging. So that's the
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: other thing is and that's the humility, approaching it with care, humility,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: with desire to understand. And then the language you use
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: needs to be what I call human truths, something that
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: is actually common across people. So it depends across your audience.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: So in my case, what I try to do is
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: I talk about things through my research that I think
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: are fundamental to every human that's fundamental to whether or
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: not they're going to live life better, that they're going
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: to be well in their being. And that's a human truth.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: And the principles I think are transcend whether you're a
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: leader or you're the you know, the janitor, the valet,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: or the couple. That for me is what the science
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: apouts finding those principles that transcend context and then talking
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: to people about how they can apply those principles to
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: their context.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those principles apply differently if you're in a romantic
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: relationship where if you're a father and a daughter and
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: you know two friends. So that's where it becomes a
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: little bit more and then it's interactive. It's like make
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: them part of that conversation. That's why I personally get
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: lots of interaction with the audience. I get them standing
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: up doing stuff together, because I also want them to
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: feel the thing, not just know the thing. Yeah, I
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put a full stop on this bit
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: for the moment. I'm gonna just because I promise my listeners,
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I put up a thing and ow you.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: Project group today. There's quite a few.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: And Nicole from Coinsland, who I already said to her,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: this is way too long. I'm going to ask you
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: bits and pieces and again this is probably pretty brief, right,
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: So she's written a bunch of questions, So sorry, Nick,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: we might just do one of the many.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: And this is not my words, this is her word
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: for word.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Also, I know that Nicole's doing a PhD in psychology
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: as well. How the fuck do we embrace unpredictability and uncertainty? I, personally,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: and I know I'm not alone, don't like it, although
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: I think I'm getting better at surrendering.
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: But is it surrender or is it just pure exhaustion?
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: That's great, I love the question. I personally think that
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: it's an acceptance. First of all. Yeah, as opposed to
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: a surrender, surrender sounds very I mean, surrender is kind
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: of is not it wrong? But I think it's an
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: accept that that's actually what life is. But it's also
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: an acceptance and understanding that that is the engine, the
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: engine of life. Yes, life is change. It's not that
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: life changes, it is changed. Without changing, is no life.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: So and then it's the context in which you experience
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: that uncertainty. The people around you, right, And that's where
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: you know, that's where you get the sandbar. Where's the
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: place that you come back to? Because if you're just
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: always uncertain, it's like treading water. Where's the sailboat in that? Right?
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Where's the thing? And Now that could be an approach
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: to the uncertainty. It can be other people to a
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: certain extent, because I think we have this huge illusion
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: that we're independent and all this kind of stuff. No
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: one is independent. We're all dependent. We all affect each other.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So yes, being around those that actually empower your ability
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: to accept that uncertainty and actually turn it into the
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: engine of well being through a creative process, but also
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: in yourself. And what I mean by is how you
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: approach every moment to life, because my underlying thesis is
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: change how you enter changes everything. Change how you enter
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: the moment changes how you respond to the moment. I like,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: change how you enter at the moment of uncertainty will
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: change how you respond to it. And there's agency in that.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: But it's not like it's throwing your arms up and
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: then you know it's coming back to that soundbar and
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: that's often love, whatever that might look like. And I
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: don't mean to be cliche, and it's kind of true.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: It's the most active brain state. It activates all your
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: areas and all this kind of Stuff's an amazing brain state, right.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Nicole, that'll be two hundred dollars. You'll get the invoice
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: very soon. Just well, all right, four hundred right, Ellen says,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: what recommendations does bo have or what does he wish
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: educators of teens would know or do.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: That's a very broad question, but that is I'll.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Say, what recommendations does BO have or what things does
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: he ish educators of teens would know?
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: Or do You've got two minutes, bro, You've got two
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: minutes and I'm going to shut you.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right? Cool. So we're actually addressing that question
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: both empirically and embonding it in that we started a
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: school called the Hummingbird Hummingbird Learning a lout here in
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: the UK. And what that school is about is that
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: giving young people agency to enter their life by making
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: not teaching about science, but making them scientists, not teaching
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: about art but making them the artists they actually learn
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: by being That's one two. We're educating young people for
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: a world that doesn't exist yet literally, but we're educating
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: to know stuff rewarding on answers when what we should
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: be doing is rewarding them on their empowering and exercising
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: their courage, their curiosity, their compassion, their critical thinking. In
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: the ten sees, those are the skills that the kids
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: are going to need in order to thrive in the future,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: both financially romantically in every way. So I wish the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: teachers would understand that they create, that they need to
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: create a culture and a context of not knowing where
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: questions are brilliant, and that the teacher doesn't actually have
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: to know everything. They have to sit alongside them to
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: create a space for them to co create and code discover.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I love it. By the way, shout out
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: to the teachers. That is a tough gig. That'll be.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: It's the most essential. It's the most essential gig.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: That'll be seven hundred dollars rail on invoice on a
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: teacher's salary.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, free just this one. It's
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Tracy tr a c E.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Why that's that's How is that a lady? Let me
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: see that's that's the lady's Yes, Tracy is a lady. Hi,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Tracy Trace says, how do we know what's real?
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: Then? Oh, she must have read.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Your bio because I put your bio on the page
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: that I asked this, How do we know what's real?
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Then?
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: If we all see things.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: With our own bias, how do we know what's real?
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: What's real? Is reality? In other words, what's reality and
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: what's not? And she right, I have to say, I
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: can't wait for this episode.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: All right, I wonder she still I'd like to know
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: if she still is happy with the episode afterwards. So
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: what is real? What is real is what's literally real,
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: is that there's energy in the world like I don't
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: mean like is in spiritual energy? But take it or
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: leave it, that's a different question. But just just in
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: terms of photons, that's real. Right, these things exist, But
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: these things have no meaning, it's just energy. They don't
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: nor did they come with instructions I'm telling us to do.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: So we have to make it up, and we make
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: it up empirically through trial and error. So fundamental to
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: living life is air. You know, evolution works from failure,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: not from success. So what's real is that what we
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: behave towards is our perceptions, and our perceptions are grounded
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: not in what was real in the past, but how
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: we perceive things before. So if you're an anxious person
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: and I present you with a neutral face, you're more
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: likely to see that as a bit aggressive, a threat.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: It called a threat response. That's your meaning of that face. Now,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: the next I present you that face, you're going to
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: behave towards it as if it's aggressive. Yes, it never
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: happened but what your brain and codes is the history
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: of that meaning. So I personally think one of the
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: most powerful things about consciousness is your ability to time travel.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: You go back and you change the perceived meaning of
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the thing. You can't change the thing, you can change
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: the perceiving of the thing you're going to now change
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: how you perceive that thing in the future. So it's
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: about changing the meanings of the past in order to
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: change how you respond in the future. That's in some
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: sense what a lot of therapies are doing. So what
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: is real is your ability to be able to do that,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: to take agency in that. And more important than that
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: is to be accountable. Our world is so devoid of accountability. Now, yes,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: well we will be accountable for when great things happen.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at Trump. He's like if he literally says,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: if it's a good thing, I did it. If it's
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: a bad thing, it's your fault. Right.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Ah, that is literally that's so true, right why not?
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: And if you can't be accountable, how can your brain
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: update itself? Yeah? The only way I can update it
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: is it to control you, because you're the fault, not me.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: And it's not about fault. It's like what can I
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: do about this? And that one's real is that you
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: do have agency, but that's a choice, and that some
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: perceptions are just better than others, and you have agency
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: and how you choose how you're going to enter every moment.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, perfect, that's real, Thank you, Tracy. Let's do one more.
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: This is it's from a block. It's a block, John, Cameron,
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: get eye John. Then where does perception he actually says,
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: mmmm mmmm. Then and where does perception end and evidence start?
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: If we only ever experience the world in our own.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: Echo chamber, evidence is feedback, right, And this is why
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I suggest to people, I imagine a lot of people
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: that are listening and maybe yourself. Do you journal? Yeah yeah, okay,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: So my suggestion is stop expand your concept of a journal.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: Turn it into a lab book, because the reality of
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: life is that the world is not a stage. The
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: world is a laboratory. Life's an experiment. Again, coming back
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: to the beginning, none of us know what we're doing.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: We're figuring it out.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: Just accept that and we're always producing results and data,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: aren't we like.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: We're like right, So document it. As soon as you
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: accept that it's experiment. It means you can now become
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: a good scientist. You can actually design experiments. Okay, what
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: if I do this today? What if I try this
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: this week? What if I approach my coup relationship in
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: this way? Document it. Don't just write down how it feels.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: That's important. I'm not saying that's not important, but then
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: document how it impacted the other on yourself. Turn it,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: turn your life, And it's right to do a lab book.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: That's where you get your evidence, ask other people, update
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: your update your findings, update your behavior accordingly, and see
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: how that can you get on with that? Right? Yes,
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: it's all about feedback. Our brain doesn't exist without feedback. Yeah,
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: document that feedback, that's your advert.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: There's a thing have you heard of, the term interroception
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: or interoception? So basically what that you know? In physiology,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: our body is always telling us stuff, right, And I
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: think over time we've just switched off that signal or
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: we don't pay attention to the signal, but it's always there.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: And I always ask people to think about rebuilding a
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: relationship with their body because it's always in inverted commas
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: talking to us. Like your body is always telling you
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: stuff you know? And that even that that kind of
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: data or that information that's on tap literally, well not
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: literally but metaphorically on tap all the time. Like, because
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: of my background and stuff, I'm probably too much in
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: touch with what my physiology is telling me at any
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: given moment in time. But people are surprised when I
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: say I don't eat at a certain time, just to
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: eat when my body tells me to eat. And that
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: could be two meals a day or three or even four,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: and it could be breakfast at seven am, or it
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: could be breakfast at one pm, and it could be
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: three thousand calories a day or two thousand, because my
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: caloric or energy needs are not a constant, they're a variable,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: depend on my energy, depending on my energy expenditure. And
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: there's all of these there's all of this stuff that
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: we have available to us that either we're not aware
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: of or we don't really pay attention to.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: I feel it's so true, and often we'll look way.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: You know, attention is in some sense for me, one
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: of the powerful things about intention of agency and attention
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: is not what you look at, because you tend to
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: reflexively look at something, that's what you look away from. Yeah,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: oh wow, could we tend to habitually look at you know,
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're a neurotic person, you're going to
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: be looking for the stuff that's going to go wrong
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: in a conversation. You're looking already for the conflict. How
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: is Craig gonna you know, how is he going to
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: manipulate it? You this time? You know, you're already looking
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: for that. What you're looking away from, you know, and
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: so but if you look away from that, you're going
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: to see other things. So that's that's you. And we
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: tend to not want to look at the things that
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: challenge us. I often say to people like, you're doing
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: all your yoga, you're doing all this kind of stuff,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: but that doesn't make you yogi. That just makes you,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: you know, flexible on I'm mad. You know, when you're meditating,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, you're great, you can sit still and meditate,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: but try doing that in a conflict. That's where you're
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: actually meditating, et ce. So and so they'll get caught
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: in the practices but avoid the actual thing that's really
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: challenging is the look itself. Yeah, and thinking about that
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: connection with the body. I think this is a really
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: important point, which is that thinking about the river is
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: that you don't have that much control of your body.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: You go to the gym, Yeah, you don't go to
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: the gym and then afterwards stitch up your muscles to
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: fix them up. Right, You get that for free. Your
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: muscles do that themselves. They have perch your feet by themselves.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: What you need to do is create a context for
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: them to do that. Well, think about sleep. Did you
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: ever go to sleep and say, bo, off to sleep
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: now and you fall asleep? Of course you don't. You
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: can't control your own sleeping. Isn't that amazing? You can't
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: actually control that. I'm going to sleep right now. What
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: you do is you turn off the lights. You know,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you get things ready, You close your eyes and you hope, yeah.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: And you stop looking. You stop looking at screens an
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: hour or two.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Right, You create a context for the thing to happen
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: that's actually literally inside you. Yes, you get the sleeping
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: for free. What you have to do, what your agency,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: is to create a context for it to happen. Your
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: body heals itself. You create a context for your body
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: to heal itself. Relationships can heal if you create a context.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: That's where your agency lives in that relationship, but you
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: have to have a self awareness of self honesty around that,
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: and you have to be able to sense these things
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: like you're able to sense and respond to that.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sitting here thinking, why do you and I only
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: talk once every two years. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: All right, So you've been doing something very exciting, which
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell people that he hasn't been wildly
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: efficient with this project. I'll tell you because it's taken
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: in my ears, so you know, he's probably been multitasking.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: So you've just launched a new AI platform called www
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: Dot Well that the u r L is. The website
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: is www dot evolvable dot me tell us, tell us
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: what that is. I had a look at it today.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I really suggest you go have a look everyone, not
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: because I'm trying to do a sales pitch and you
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: don't have to actually buy anything. It's just this what's
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: free free? Yes, So that's that's a good reason to go. Yeah,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated. Tell us what it is, how it came
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: to be, and why it's important.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: It's it's what it is is. It helps people become
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: self aware. It's everything that we've been talking about if
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: transformation lives in or rather if your character lives and
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: how you enter every moment of life. Transformation lives in
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: changing how you enter. Yes, but how can you change
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: how you enter if you don't actually know how you're entering,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: if you don't know you're entering with neuroticism, how can
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: you take agency over that? Yes, So the platform is
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: designed to support people in becoming self aware of self honest,
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: thinking about my uncle Kay, the pursuit of self honesty
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: and through that gives you agency because you don't have
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: agency if you don't have awareness, but awargency of self.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: And this makes the instinctly self honesty and my truth
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: because people say, oh, this is my truth, this is
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: why it is. But your truth could be coming from
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: the fact that you were abused, or that you know this,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: that or the other. That your truth is actually you know.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: So if you have an anxious, avoidant attachment strategy, your truth,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: so to speak, is that people leave me. Your self
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: honesty is that actually you're behaving a way that pushes
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: them away. Yeah, right, one of them you can actually
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: do something constructive about the other. You just wallow in
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: and not to say that those feelings are important. They're
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: very important, but that's only a step to say why
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: is this happening? So it's in the pursuit helps and
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: it's currently the most in depth analysis of who you
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: are because not only do we, for instance, do the
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: Big five, we go into five fastest of each of
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: the Big five. It can also analyze your WhatsApp messages
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: and gives you a deep understanding of who you are
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: and who you're the person you're with is yes. So
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: it's all about awareness to agency and then you can
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: sit alongside our AI guides and ask questions about that,
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: like how is this impacting my relationship? What I might do?
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: The AI agents aren't there to tell you what to do.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: They're there to support you in taking agency in the consequences.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: It's about creating understanding self understanding. So that's what it is.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Why it's important is because people are really suffering, but
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: they are but they're not looking at the thing that
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: needs to be looked at. You know, the aim is
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: to become evolvable. If you're an evolvable person, you will
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: actually be better in your being because now you're less
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: afraid of the uncertain of the future. Because you know
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: you're going to be able to adapt to it. You're
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: going to be resilient and agile. I now feel okay
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: about the fact that the futures are known, right.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: I would In fact, I would say everyone listening to
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: this this show in general, listens because they want to evolve.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: They want to improve, adapt, survive, thrive, be better, do better,
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: think better, create better, which is in itself, it's an
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: evolution of you.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why we call it evolvable, not me. The
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: company is called Evolvadle O me. It's for people who
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: already want to evolve, but they need to understand how Now.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: A lot of people say, right. We often say that
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: we'll probably be the most down, the most deleted app
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: on the because we're going to tell you stuff that
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: you might not want to know. And our AI character
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: called go. It's not going to be like, oh, isn't
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: that lovely, Craig, isn't that a nice thing that you
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: just said? There? No, it's like, Craig, you're kind of
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: being an idiot. That's not chat then, it's not chat gyp.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: It's like, let's be honest here, It's like, yeah, you
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: want if you want to evolve. Okay, let's then fine,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: but if you don't work, not for you, right, And
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: so it's a bit like functional health, but functional health
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: for your mind. Like functional health give you the blood
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: tests to give you all that data and all that
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. It's like, now what are you going
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: to do with it? Yes, So it's it's sort of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: like giving you the it's giving you. And people who
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: do function health, they want to they want to feel better,
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: they want to do better, but they actually then have
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: to do the blood test. Yeah, there's a blood test
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: for your mind.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: I love it. I was thinking as you were talking
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: about self awareness.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: When I started my PhD, I'm like, I wonder when
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: the research around self awareness started and trying to understand
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: the self. And then I found Socrates two and a
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: half thousand years ago saying to know thyself is the
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: beginning of wisdom.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: I'm like, ah, yes, that's not a new concept.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: No, and and certainly you know, uh, a life that
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: is not an unexamined life is not worth living. Yes, yes,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: but people don't want to do that because it's final
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: and it's yeah, but it's not that's the irony. I
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: think it's a it's a perception. Yeah, that's a perception, right, yes,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: and because that's where the accountability comes in. But that's
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: also where beauty lives. And so that's the aim, that's
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: to create beauty. We need more beauty in the world.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: We need people with more humility, people with more self awareness,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: people actually in debates, actually trying to evolve each other
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: and the whole situation rather than just convince each other. Right, good,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I love it. That's what we're about.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: It's called Yeah, it's like getting to know me one
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: on one. So the platform you can you can go
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: take a.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: Look, everybody. I'd really encourage you to www dot evolvable
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: me evola not me, thank you. I'll put my teeth
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: back in and just listen to you.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: Mike. What else do you want to plug or mention
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: or steer people to our audience towards anything else while
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: you're here.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: That's no, I just there would just I mean, if
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: people access that, we'd love to get the feedback on that, uh,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: and to share it on because share it with your partner,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: because you know the bible to actually analyze your whatsapped
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: messages with your partner, for instance, and then get insight
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: into that but do it in a context of trying
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: to understand yourself, not trying to show them that they're wrong. Yeah,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: it's the container. It's the context in which you then
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: share that with your partner. Right, It's becomes a facility. Right.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I love working with couples. But how are you going
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: to enter every moment in life together? Now, let's first
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: start with yourself. This first start with self awareness. So
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: I just think that to me, it's it's a passion.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: It's a passion project. I mean, it's business. This is
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: for free for people. But I personally, I just think
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: that we just need more of that in the world.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's might put a few therapists out of business.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Well, therapists can actually use it. They can use it
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: to help them with their patients. It's a great devil. Yeah,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: it's a tool.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I love chatting with you. We appreciate you giving
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: us your time and wisdom. And I'll just say it
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: once more, everybody, Www Dot evolvable dot me. I feel
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: like my lips aren't working tonight. It's been a big day.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: It's eight fourteen here in the thriving metropolis in the PM.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: I haven't eaten for about eight hours and my body
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: is going, what the fuck are we doing on a podcast? Go?
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I need something for God's sake. Thanks so much mate.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: We'll chat off here, but Bo, we appreciate you. You're
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: very popular on the show and we always get great feedback,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: so thanks for chatting with us again.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks Greg, wonderful to speak with you.