Latest / Foul Territory / Noah Hiles dives into Pirates latest selling frenzy and rebuild

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Noah Hiles dives into Pirates latest selling frenzy and rebuild · Foul Territory

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  Speaker 1: The Pirates aren't really a team that ever looks to
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  Speaker 1: trade a piece when they can't get maximum value.
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  Speaker 2: What incentive do you have to sign an extension with.
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  Speaker 3: Noah Hiles is whether us Pirates beat writer for the
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  Speaker 3: Pittsburgh Post Gazette. Noah, great to talk to you. Very
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  Speaker 3: busy times for you despite the team not playing good ball,
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  Speaker 3: because we might have some longer term team control names
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  Speaker 3: that move at the trade deadline, so we want to
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  Speaker 3: hit you right away with the good stuff. Do you
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  Speaker 3: think one of the quote core members of the Pirates
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  Speaker 3: will be moved at this trade deadline?
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  Speaker 1: I do. I think there is a high likelihood at
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  Speaker 1: least one of those guys removed, the core members being
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  Speaker 1: the three players that Ben Sherrington extended in his six
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  Speaker 1: years at the Helm here, those three being Mitch Keller,
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  Speaker 1: Cabrian Hayes, Brian Reynolds. I think there is a very
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  Speaker 1: high likelihood we see Mitch Keller moved, and I think
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  Speaker 1: there's a fair chance we see Cabrian Hayes moved as well.
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  Speaker 4: I want to talk a little bit about Mitch Kellor,
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  Speaker 4: play with him and my last year coming up. I
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  Speaker 4: think this guy's an absolute study throws the ball hard,
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  Speaker 4: He's not afraid to control the game. I can see
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  Speaker 4: a lot of teams picking him up. I feel like
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  Speaker 4: you could get a lot back for him too as well.
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  Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on him and what you can
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  Speaker 4: get back for him.
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  Speaker 1: I totally agree. I think there's a lot of value
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  Speaker 1: attached to this guy. You look at the years of control,
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  Speaker 1: He's got three more after this season. His price tag,
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's high for a market like this one
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  Speaker 1: here in Pittsburgh, but most teams who are regularly competing
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  Speaker 1: in the postseason, they're willing to pay what Mitch is making,
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  Speaker 1: which is fifteen million this year, and I believe it
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  Speaker 1: goes all the way up to twenty over the next
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  Speaker 1: three years. But it's still a reasonable price for what
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  Speaker 1: he produces. What do you get from him? You get
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  Speaker 1: a guy who's gonna make thirty starts.
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  Speaker 2: You get a guy.
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  Speaker 1: In those thirty starts, he's probably gonna go five plus
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  Speaker 1: innings in twenty eight of them. He's gonna cover innings.
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  Speaker 1: His era is gonna be in the high threes, are
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  Speaker 1: the low fours. When it's all said and done. He's productive.
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  Speaker 1: He's not an ace on any staff. But he's someone
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  Speaker 1: who's gonna start games for you in playoff series. He's
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  Speaker 1: someone who's gonna, you know, cover a lot of innings
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  Speaker 1: and be very reliable, stay healthy and productive.
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  Speaker 5: All right, where's the value? Where's the value in the
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  Speaker 5: other two guys that you mentioned, Key Brian Hayes Brian Reynolds.
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  Speaker 5: Obviously Key Brian Hayes's value is in defense, and Brian
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  Speaker 5: Reynolds is having a down year. So for the Pirates,
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  Speaker 5: who are historically stingy, historically cheap, there are two guys
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  Speaker 5: that are gonna cost them money. They are they looking
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  Speaker 5: to just dump these contracts in reality, obviously they want
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  Speaker 5: a prospect. Obviously they want to ruin I mean, get
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  Speaker 5: some other prospects, you know, from the other organization and
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  Speaker 5: ruin their career, I mean, get them in the big leagues,
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  Speaker 5: because they don't know when to bring them up or
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  Speaker 5: send them down or make adjustments. But which of these
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  Speaker 5: two guys will command more for the Pirates, whether it's
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  Speaker 5: getting rid of the money or bringing back more prospects.
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  Speaker 1: It's a tough question because I think if they could
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  Speaker 1: choose between one of those two guys, Hayeser or Reynolds,
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  Speaker 1: I think they'd rather get rid of Hayes simply because
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  Speaker 1: I don't think they've gotten anywhere close to the value
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  Speaker 1: from him since they signed him to that extension. Other
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  Speaker 1: teams look at that deal and see it as pretty affordable.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, for the Pirates, it's still one of their
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  Speaker 1: highest paid players, and I mean the value I guess
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  Speaker 1: for another team is, like you mentioned, there's defense there.
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  Speaker 1: It's an affordable contract, and if you're a team with
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  Speaker 1: a lot of productive bats in the lineup, you might
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  Speaker 1: be willing to take on a glove tool guy who
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  Speaker 1: can just help you in one area but provides a
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  Speaker 1: lot of help. Whereas Reynolds, I think the value with
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  Speaker 1: moving him is pretty much all financial right now. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: he's not playing anywhere close to what he has in
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  Speaker 1: the last couple of seasons. He's regressed dramatically in the
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  Speaker 1: field the last couple of years. His ops has kind
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  Speaker 1: of gone down every single season since signing that extension.
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  Speaker 1: He's still a productive hitter coming into this year. You know,
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  Speaker 1: he's an All Star just as recently as last year,
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  Speaker 1: but this has just been a really bad year for him.
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  Speaker 1: I wouldn't completely write him off. I think it might
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  Speaker 1: just be a down year. I could see him rebounding.
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  Speaker 1: I could see teams thinking that, hey, a change of scenery,
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  Speaker 1: getting this guy in a lineup with a little bit
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  Speaker 1: more protection, take a little more pressure off or less
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  Speaker 1: pressure off of him. Maybe you get more value out
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  Speaker 1: of him there. But the Pirates aren't really a team
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  Speaker 1: that ever looks to trade a piece when they can't
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  Speaker 1: get maximum value. And I think if they'd be selling
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  Speaker 1: Brian Reynolds, they'd be selling him when his stocks maybe
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  Speaker 1: at the all time low.
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  Speaker 4: Very interesting. Let me ask you this, Paul Skeins, he
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  Speaker 4: hasn't thrown over rady eight pitches since June nineteenth. I
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  Speaker 4: know he's a stud. He looks good. Anytime he throws.
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  Speaker 4: There's a way they're going to win the game. Is
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  Speaker 4: this hurting his cy Young contention a little bit?
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  Speaker 5: Though?
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  Speaker 1: If it persists, I think it might. But I mean
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  Speaker 1: you still got to look. This guy's in the top
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  Speaker 1: five in baseball and pretty much every statistical category. Now,
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  Speaker 1: if they start skipping some start days and they only
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  Speaker 1: let him throw five innings every start for the remainder
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  Speaker 1: of the season, two things in which I do not
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  Speaker 1: anticipate them doing, then that could hurt his cy young candidacy,
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  Speaker 1: But I still think Paul's on pace to flirt with
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  Speaker 1: two hundred innings pitched this year if he gets that mark.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, only four guys got there last year.
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  Speaker 1: I think they just looked at it where you know,
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  Speaker 1: this team isn't doing anything significant, you know, team wise,
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  Speaker 1: this year, and it wouldn't make a ton of sense
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  Speaker 1: to have Paul skiings log two hundred and twenty innings.
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  Speaker 1: He threw one hundred and sixty and a third last
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  Speaker 1: year between Triple A and the Majors. I think they'd
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  Speaker 1: like to get him around that one ninety to two
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  Speaker 1: hundred mark somewhere in between that those two figures by
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  Speaker 1: the end of the season, and in order to get there,
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  Speaker 1: they needed to cool him down a little bit. I
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  Speaker 1: anticipate him having a little bit of a longer leash
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  Speaker 1: for most of his starts, but there will be a
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  Speaker 1: couple of outings here in the second half where he
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  Speaker 1: goes in knowing he's only getting five ups, or he
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  Speaker 1: knows he's only gonna get ninety pitches, or there might
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  Speaker 1: be a couple of weeks where they use the off
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  Speaker 1: day and then build in a bullpen day to get
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  Speaker 1: him an extra day of rest. But I don't think
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  Speaker 1: any of it's going to really impact his cy young candidacy.
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  Speaker 5: I feel like he's a guy that'd be really pissed
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  Speaker 5: off during that time when he's missing a start, and
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  Speaker 5: I wouldn't be the one to I wouldn't want Don
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  Speaker 5: Kelly to be the one going up to him, Hey, Paul,
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  Speaker 5: we're gonna skip your start, and he's like, what, I'm
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  Speaker 5: gonna smash you into the ground because he's a monster.
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  Speaker 5: But there's a perfect time to say it, there's a
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  Speaker 5: perfect time to ask it. It's kind of a comedy question.
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  Speaker 5: Extension Paul Skins chances are one to.
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  Speaker 1: I said this on local radio the other day. I
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  Speaker 1: give it a one percent chance right now. Now that
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  Speaker 1: figure can change. But if your Paul schemes, what incentive
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  Speaker 1: do you have to sign an extension here?
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  Speaker 2: One?
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  Speaker 1: I mean the pirates, I will say for the recent
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  Speaker 1: talents that they have been able to successfully develop, you
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  Speaker 1: go past this current regime. They extended McCutchen, they extended
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  Speaker 1: Starling Marte. They thought highly of Gregory Polanco and extended him. Obviously,
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  Speaker 1: they didn't extend Garrett Cole, but they you know, and Hayes,
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  Speaker 1: Reynolds and Keller two extensions as well. Obviously those three
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  Speaker 1: didn't necessarily play out as well as the ones like
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  Speaker 1: Martine McCutchen did, but they have shown interest in the
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  Speaker 1: last decade or so in extending their you know, internal
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  Speaker 1: talent that they develop. But Skeens is a just a
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  Speaker 1: different animal. I mean, he has a higher upside than
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  Speaker 1: all of those names I just listed and b I
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  Speaker 1: mean again, why would any player right now want to
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  Speaker 1: sign an extension with the Pittsburgh Pirates. If you're Paul Skeens,
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  Speaker 1: you're looking around and saying, you know, this is a
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  Speaker 1: guy who wants to win. That's his main objective every
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  Speaker 1: time you talk to him. It's never about his individual
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  Speaker 1: accolades or his individual success, his numbers. It's about what
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  Speaker 1: the team can do to be better. How can they win?
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  Speaker 1: This guy wants to compete. In two seasons here, they
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  Speaker 1: haven't done a ton to add around him, and so
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  Speaker 1: I think he would be open to it maybe later on.
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  Speaker 1: If twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven go well,
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  Speaker 1: and they win a division title and they make some
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  Speaker 1: noise in the playoffs, I think then you have a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of a better shot. But until they start
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  Speaker 1: winning and having some serious traction here, I don't think
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  Speaker 1: Paul Schemes would be interested in that.
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  Speaker 3: And the problem when you're the Pirates is that if
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  Speaker 3: you don't figure something like this out, you are going
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  Speaker 3: to continue to fall behind if you wait on value
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  Speaker 3: with players. Not yet, I get it. We're not going
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  Speaker 3: to go into that whole conversation again. He's not on
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  Speaker 3: the trade block right now. But you can't wait until
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  Speaker 3: a year before free agency and be like, I don't know,
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  Speaker 3: otherwise we let him walk. You just can't do that
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  Speaker 3: when you're in that spot and your owner doesn't believe
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  Speaker 3: in spending on free agency. So on that topic, we
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  Speaker 3: finally got a little peep from the commissioner about the Pirates.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sure you caught it. Pat McAfee was over in
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  Speaker 3: Atlanta and he had the commission on the show, and
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  Speaker 3: he said, Pittsburgh's a great sports on This is Pat,
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  Speaker 3: and there's a lot of really passionate Pirates fans. I
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  Speaker 3: think all of us kind of feel like we're with
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  Speaker 3: Pirates Nation right now. Anyway. He said, they just want
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  Speaker 3: to look at the system, think they have a fair
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  Speaker 3: chance to win Manfred said we need to deal with
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  Speaker 3: that issue. I think some people took it as we
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  Speaker 3: need to deal with Bob Nutting never believing in free
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  Speaker 3: agency and treating his team like crap. But I actually
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  Speaker 3: think he just meant that he wants a salary cap.
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  Speaker 3: What did you take out of it?
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  Speaker 2: I lean more towards the ladder.
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  Speaker 1: I think that Manford, I don't know if it's necessarily
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  Speaker 1: a salary cap. I think that's the big narrative that
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  Speaker 1: exists right now, just from everything that came out Tuesday
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  Speaker 1: in Atlanta. But yeah, I think Manford wants to in.
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  Speaker 1: Any commissioner of any sporting league should want this. They
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  Speaker 1: want to have a league where all teams inside the
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  Speaker 1: league have a legitimate shot of competing for a championship.
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  Speaker 2: And right now it's hard to make that argument.
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  Speaker 1: You can look around this sport and see a handful
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  Speaker 1: of franchise is that just don't seem to have that
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  Speaker 1: ability or willingness to go all in like you see
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  Speaker 1: the Dodgers or the Mets or the Yankees doing consistently,
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  Speaker 1: and even bigger markets are moving players away with high salaries.
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  Speaker 2: Right now.
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  Speaker 1: It's an interesting time in the sport and when you
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  Speaker 1: look at a place like Pittsburgh, where, yeah, there hasn't
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  Speaker 1: been a lot of success here. They've had four winning
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: seasons since nineteen ninety two. They haven't won a playoff
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  Speaker 1: series since winning the World Series in nineteen seventy nine.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, these fans are starved for winning baseball and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of frustration that can be felt well
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  Speaker 1: outside of the city of Pittsburgh when it pertains to
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  Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Pirates. And I think the commissioner recognizes that
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: and he views that as just one part of a
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: big problem right now baseball has with small to mid
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  Speaker 1: market teams not really having a chance to financially feel
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  Speaker 1: a competitive roster and maintain that roster for an extended
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  Speaker 1: period of time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, salary floor is obviously the answer. It's just that
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  Speaker 3: they'll never go for that because the people that vote
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  Speaker 3: for that are people like Bob Nutting. So, on the
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: topic of Bob, do you think he's okay with in
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: intra division trade? I know you mentioned Mitch Keller and
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: the Cubs and maybe the Mets. Do you think that
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: the Pirates are totally fine with that? Because we do
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: have to remember, ultimately, one person makes the final decision
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  Speaker 3: on a trade, and last year it definitely came up
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: with the White Sox right trying to maybe amp the
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: price up in division. That's their right. Do you think
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: any of that would be the case if the Cubs
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: call about Mitch Keller?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think the Pirates are in a position right
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  Speaker 1: now where they have to take the best offer available,
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  Speaker 1: and if that comes from a team that they're going
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to play more than anyone else because they're in their division,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: then that's just the harsh reality of the situation they
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: put themselves in. I don't think it's completely off the table.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: As far as Keller to the Cubs. I was recently
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  Speaker 1: told that he's not their top priority right now, or
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: at least that's what it's led to believe from my sources.
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  Speaker 1: They're still interested, but I think they have other guys
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  Speaker 1: ahead now. They were one of the first teams to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: reach out, so there is smoke there. But if it
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: came down to it and they offered the best price
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: for Mitch, I think that that deal does get done.
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: What about what about my boy Adam Fraser, He's just
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: going through the cycle of teams that's that he's played on.
• 12:15
  Speaker 5: Can you kind of explain how far out this trade, Like,
• 12:19
  Speaker 5: was this something that you know was in the works earlier?
• 12:23
  Speaker 5: It just kind of pop up. I know people are
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: gonna be like, huh, who cares Adam Fraser trade? But
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  Speaker 5: to me, it's a big deal because he's a great
• 12:31
  Speaker 5: contributor to a team, and I think it's a big
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: pickup for the Royals, who are kind of on the fringe.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I totally agree.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: I think Adam Fraser is a perfect bench piece for
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: a team that's looking to make a postseason push. He
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: can play a whole bunch of different positions. He has
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: experienced patting in all areas of the lineup, and you
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: know he can get hot and give you two really
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: good weeks of production at the plate.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: We've seen that at times this season.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I know when the Pirates acquired him, they didn't expect
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: him to be an everyday player, but Nick and Zalez
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: breaks his ankle hitting a home run on opening Day,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the most Pirates injury ever, and he takes over as
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: the everyday second basement for a couple of months and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: was one of the more productive bats in the lineup.
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  Speaker 2: So I think the trade was expected.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what you do when you have a
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: veteran on an expiring contract in this month and you're
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: in last place, you move those guys. I don't think
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: they were anticipating getting anything amazing for him, And yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they didn't get a top one hundred prospect in exchange,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: but they were able to get a guy that I
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: think will probably see a lot of playing time in
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: these final two months of the regular season in the Royals.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Like we just mentioned, got a veteran guy who's played
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: some playoff baseball, who knows how to play a lot
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of positions and is a nice addition to a clubhouse.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: No last one for you. I want to make sure
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: we get to Dennis Santana and David Bednark. Do you
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: think both of them definitely will go because they both
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: have what one more year of team control after this?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I don't know of both.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I think that that's like the biggest question I entered
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: the month of June with just talking with people around
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the team and just you know, league sources.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: How do you handle that?
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Because the Pirates bullpen has been very inconsistent throughout this regime,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and right now it's the best it's ever been, and
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: largely because you have those two right handed weapons for
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: high leverage spots, and do you want to.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Give both of them away?
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: One of them is a Pittsburgh guy, and how many
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: players in Major League Baseball right now are chomping at
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the bit to stay in Pittsburgh. They want to be
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Pittsburgh Pirates. I think there are a lot of guys
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: who would like to come here for the right price.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: But David Bednar is a proud Pittsburgh pirate. So moving
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: someone like that with local ties, a guy that they
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: thought about moving earlier in his career and ownership stepped
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: in and said absolutely not. So that's one side of
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the coin, and then the other side of the coin.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I mean Santana, I think is an incredibly underrated asset.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: He's been one of the best right handers in the
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: game if you look at his numbers from the moment
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: he arrived at Pittsburgh up to now, he's been incredibly effective.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Use him in so many different spots.
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  Speaker 1: I think that of those two, Santana's more likely to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: be moved, but I wouldn't be shocked.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: At both women.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, we'll keep an eye on it. That's maybe
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: the most popular team or at least top three right
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: now heading into the deadline. If all of these names
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: are going to be up for grabs, I mean the
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: Diamondback's getting a lot of up fireates have a lot
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: to sell here. Noah, thanks for the time, great work,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: Great to talk to you.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, guys, thanks for having me on