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Monday Mini: What's Going On With DC Fandom? · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Okay, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to Stuff I
0:07
Speaker 1: Never Told You production of iHeart Radio, and welcome to
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Speaker 1: another edition of Monday Mini. I think we are going
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Speaker 1: to kind of switch up the Monday Mini soon ish Um.
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Speaker 1: We're it's still gonna be newsy type things, but we're
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Speaker 1: also gonna have kind of a Samantha reacts to stuff
0:33
Speaker 1: Corner tells me about it. Yeah, I want to tell
0:36
Speaker 1: you about things and see how you react as I
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Speaker 1: discuss it. Put me in the hot seat. Okay, okay, okay,
0:44
Speaker 1: but this one is sort of This outline is probably
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Speaker 1: one of the spiciest outlines I've ever written, y'all. She
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Speaker 1: wrote this so quickly three weeks ago, two weeks ago,
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Speaker 1: and like a fury. And when I looked at it,
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Speaker 1: the first thing you said it was like, did you
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Speaker 1: read it? Yes, yes, I don't think I'm not feeling
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Speaker 1: as riled up as I was when I wrote this.
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Speaker 1: This is one of those things every now and then
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Speaker 1: it happens you just have a question and you're like, oh,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to look into this, and then it becomes
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Speaker 1: an episode and you weren't planning it at all. That's
1:18
Speaker 1: what happened here. There is a content warning, but I
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Speaker 1: mean nothing serious. But we are talking about some toxic
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Speaker 1: fandom and some of the fallout from that. I asked
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Speaker 1: to be really clear because this is a spicy outline.
1:31
Speaker 1: I grew up reading like a lot of d C comics,
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Speaker 1: Like I I this is not like me saying anything
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Speaker 1: in particular about like, oh I don't like DC or
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Speaker 1: anything like that. I kind of just was curious about
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Speaker 1: some things because it kept coming up in other outlines
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Speaker 1: we were doing, Um, this kind of fan base, and
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Speaker 1: it is a toxic part of the fan base. We're
1:59
Speaker 1: kind of talking about the d C EU, the DC
2:01
Speaker 1: extended universe, and specifically kind of the Snyder verse. So
2:05
Speaker 1: I just want to be clear with that, Like, even
2:07
Speaker 1: though I'm going to get brought up, I've really annoyed
2:09
Speaker 1: it kind of these toxic Snyder fan boys, but not
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Speaker 1: the fan of at all. There are plenty of DC
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Speaker 1: movies that I like, Um, plenty of DC movies. That's
2:19
Speaker 1: not gonna happen anymore. Also true, and I get that
2:22
Speaker 1: that hurts. I do get that that hurts. And I'm
2:24
Speaker 1: going to talk about that too, um and it yeah, yeah,
2:30
Speaker 1: And they like shows, and like I said, comics that
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Speaker 1: I liked one of the things I find really interesting
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Speaker 1: about Snyder Verse, and I find this interesting with Star
2:36
Speaker 1: Wars as well, Like the original Star Wars trilogy was
2:40
Speaker 1: supposed to be optimistic and that's why a lot of
2:42
Speaker 1: people liked it, and now all the new stuff is
2:44
Speaker 1: not optimistic. Now all the new stuff is like, this
2:48
Speaker 1: is drama and warn Batman, well, I guess not when
2:53
Speaker 1: it was early early sitcomy, yeah, wasn't. But specifically yet
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Speaker 1: Batman was kind of the like, oh you like Superman,
3:02
Speaker 1: who was the super optimistic, kind of hopeful character. And
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Speaker 1: what we're seeing with the Snyder versus not really that
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Speaker 1: at all. Um. In fact, even in just like the
3:13
Speaker 1: the color tones and palette they use, it's very brim
3:18
Speaker 1: So that's something I've been thinking about and I want
3:21
Speaker 1: to come back and visit, but that's that's where that's
3:24
Speaker 1: for a later day. Um. So, basically, the question I
3:28
Speaker 1: had was why were we running across the Snyder Verse
3:35
Speaker 1: and so many of our other episodes, because we talked
3:37
Speaker 1: about them in our Amber her Johnny dep trial, which
3:40
Speaker 1: makes sense because she was in Aquaman. We talked about
3:44
Speaker 1: that them in our YouTube episode. I remember the Oscars
3:49
Speaker 1: kind of sillily had like a fan you can vote
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Speaker 1: for best Picture. I don't know if it was last year.
3:55
Speaker 1: I think I might have been two years ago, and
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Speaker 1: they voted for Justice League and so, and that wasn't
4:01
Speaker 1: like on my radar at all. So I was kind
4:03
Speaker 1: of like scratching my head about it. I keep seeing
4:05
Speaker 1: some kind of Snyder Verse things trending on Twitter. I
4:08
Speaker 1: knew about like release the Snyder Cut and all this stuff,
4:11
Speaker 1: so like it's like four or five hours long, right, Yeah,
4:16
Speaker 1: it's ridiculously long. Yeah, yeah, And there's plenty of articles
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Speaker 1: about it. Honestly, I think we could come back and
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Speaker 1: do a whole episode on this. I did read that
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Speaker 1: it's rated as more toxic than Star Wars, which says,
4:31
Speaker 1: but Rise of Skywalkers for sharing the same thing. Because
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Speaker 1: and we'll talk about it in a second, but the
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Speaker 1: idea of like who whose fan, whose voices of fans
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Speaker 1: get heard and whose dosn't, and what gets retconed because
4:44
Speaker 1: of that is a big part of this conversation, and
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Speaker 1: Rise of Skywalker was an example of that. For sure.
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Speaker 1: I did find DC fans are in general older than
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Speaker 1: Marvel fans, and like a lot of the arguments breakdown
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Speaker 1: to a DC verse is Marvel thing in a way
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Speaker 1: that I wasn't anticipating, And maybe that's silly of me,
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Speaker 1: but I guess like feeling DC fans feeling very persecuted
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Speaker 1: and angry at Marvel and Disney in general for doing
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Speaker 1: better kind of financially, are getting more what they view
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Speaker 1: is more support, like publicly as opposed to d C
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Speaker 1: when they think that DC movies are better. Um, so
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Speaker 1: it's basically proof for all unintelligent sheep. And again I
5:27
Speaker 1: want to make very clear this is a small section
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Speaker 1: to fan base. I am not saying this battle. Please
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Speaker 1: don't get mad at me. But like there are articles
5:36
Speaker 1: you can find from publications that I was kind of
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Speaker 1: surprised printed them where they were basically saying this is
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Speaker 1: all a conspiracy. Disney infiltrated d C and ruin those movies.
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Speaker 1: They get more Marvel and Star Wars movies made. DC
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Speaker 1: is not under Disney, isn't no, But exactly, but because
5:55
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this in the second, because Josh Weeden
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Speaker 1: came in and took over to this league, they see
6:01
Speaker 1: that as like, ah um okay, So when asked about this,
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Speaker 1: Zack Snyder has said that they are these fans are passionate,
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Speaker 1: not toxic, which I do think there are passionate fans,
6:17
Speaker 1: but I also think they are very toxic fans um.
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Speaker 1: And when I was reading about this, it seems some
6:22
Speaker 1: people don't understand what toxic fandom is and are arguing
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Speaker 1: that people bullying them by liking another fandom more is toxic,
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Speaker 1: which it can be toxic, but to me, it just
6:34
Speaker 1: sounded like, well, they don't like what I like and
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Speaker 1: they're not like backing me up, and that's toxic. Like
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Speaker 1: it really didn't seem like a bunch of the articles
6:45
Speaker 1: I read got what toxic fandom is, and I saw, okay,
6:51
Speaker 1: I'm getting into the spicy bits because I read this
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Speaker 1: article and the person who wrote it was said claimed
7:01
Speaker 1: that he was called a toxic fan because he didn't
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Speaker 1: like the Star Wars equals, and I would don't believe
7:06
Speaker 1: that's true, or at the very least, there is no
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Speaker 1: way in hell that it equates to what people who
7:12
Speaker 1: were in created and people who liked those equels experience
7:16
Speaker 1: like they're kind of notoriously not like especially the last Jedi.
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Speaker 1: Like I maybe some people were mean to you. I'm
7:25
Speaker 1: not trying to downplay it, but my god, when I
7:27
Speaker 1: was reading that article, I was like, no, no, just no.
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Speaker 1: And you can criticize films for valid, non hateful reasons.
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Speaker 1: I always trying to make that point, Like those totally legit.
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Speaker 1: That's not toxic fandom, Like, that's not what we're talking
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Speaker 1: about here, We're toxic fandom is like attacking people online, scaring, forcing,
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Speaker 1: coercing people off social media who were actors in it,
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Speaker 1: like not people who are like, actually, I think this
7:59
Speaker 1: was pretty good, Like, no, it wasn't. That's not talking
8:02
Speaker 1: fandom anyway. Here is a quote from this article. It's
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Speaker 1: just off putting that a company that once made a
8:12
Speaker 1: short featuring Donald Duck dressed up as a Nazi you
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Speaker 1: should think it has the right to cash judgment. The
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Speaker 1: whole world is so frantic to assale anyone who is
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Speaker 1: less than elated by the latest Star Wars film that
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Speaker 1: they seem to completely overlook the historic crimes of the
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Speaker 1: parent company. Now do you seriously think that's by accident?
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Speaker 1: The point big that it's supposed to be some big
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Speaker 1: conspiracy that Disney and filtrated d C and did all
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Speaker 1: this and look, I don't know what world you're living in,
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Speaker 1: Disney gives your Okay, they've done some bad stuff. I'm
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Speaker 1: not defending that, but the you're talking about, I can
8:46
Speaker 1: tell you again, angry people online and in general did
8:51
Speaker 1: not like the sequels. I don't know what this is
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Speaker 1: what you're talking about with like less than elated by
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Speaker 1: the latest Star Wars films. This is not though. No, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not defendingtuly at all, but I just
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Speaker 1: don't understand this mind process. But a lot of it
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Speaker 1: did come down to that of like Marvel versus d C,
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Speaker 1: Star Wars versus d C. This is some big plot
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Speaker 1: uh to ruin the Snyder verse for us. So, man,
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Speaker 1: I am getting round up. I wasn't expecting this, okay. Sorry.
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Speaker 1: So the campaign for the Snyder cuts began in when
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Speaker 1: Snyder had to back away from filming Justice League due
9:55
Speaker 1: to a death in the family. It was very tragic
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Speaker 1: and Josh Weeden was higher to finish it, and this
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Speaker 1: was supposed to be the pinnacle of Snyder's for a
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Speaker 1: in the DC universe. It did not do well. Um
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Speaker 1: and fans uh started demanding for the Snyder cut. They
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Speaker 1: were known as the hashtag release the Snyder Cut Collective,
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Speaker 1: and this campaign went all out at the Comic Con
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Speaker 1: and in Times Square, perhaps paid for by Snyder himself,
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Speaker 1: according to some things I read, And there was this
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Speaker 1: huge myth that got built up around it that there
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Speaker 1: was this mysterious cut that multiple reports have shown did
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Speaker 1: not exist. UM Snyder tweeted about it, though actors who
10:35
Speaker 1: were in it tweeted about it. So the myth continued.
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Speaker 1: And and this collective has done some good things, like
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Speaker 1: raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for suicide prevention awareness
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Speaker 1: after the death of Snyder's daughter, UM those some have
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Speaker 1: argued they just did that to appear legitimate. I don't
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Speaker 1: want to get into that. UM Snyder said of this
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Speaker 1: and the accusation that the movement was toxic in regards
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Speaker 1: to that toxic fandom or it's a win in for
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Speaker 1: toxic fandom. Again, in what world does this toxic fandom
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Speaker 1: raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for suicide prevention? How
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Speaker 1: is that toxic fandom? They probably achieved more than any
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Speaker 1: other fan base and done more good than any other group.
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Speaker 1: So I don't understand, well, I could explain it. To you,
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Speaker 1: but I you will not. Let's see, both things can
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Speaker 1: be true, you know, you can do a good thing
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Speaker 1: and the toxic fan. Both things can be true, And
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Speaker 1: I feel like that's a culture we have a hard
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Speaker 1: time accepting that that does not mean good or bad essentially,
11:34
Speaker 1: like loyalty could be like it's either or on that one.
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Speaker 1: So if they're loyal to Snyder, then yes, they're going
11:43
Speaker 1: to care about what he cares about and then therefore
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Speaker 1: do what he wants or what he what they think
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Speaker 1: is an owed to him rather. UM. I have no
11:52
Speaker 1: idea because I didn't realize. All I know of this
11:54
Speaker 1: controversy is yes, that's a Snyder cut, which lasts like
11:58
Speaker 1: hours apparently. Um. And then Weeden came in and he's
12:02
Speaker 1: got a lot of stink on him, uh, from the
12:04
Speaker 1: actors that have made many accusations towards him, which have
12:09
Speaker 1: been somewhat founded by witnesses and all that stuff. So
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Speaker 1: I find it interesting that maybe it's just the drama
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Speaker 1: surrounding the people that are a part of this not
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Speaker 1: so much, you know, like that in itself can cause
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Speaker 1: a lot of drama and therefore studios maybe backtracking, even
12:25
Speaker 1: though with Ezra Miller, they're not backtracking weirdly enough. Yeah.
12:31
Speaker 1: Well yeah, And that was one thing that struck me
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Speaker 1: when I was two am researching this, because this was
12:39
Speaker 1: a fury of research I did a very late Um
12:43
Speaker 1: was how many controversies that kind of stumbled on that
12:47
Speaker 1: I was like, oh wow, I could because like Ezra Miller,
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Speaker 1: there was stuff with jous Weeden when he came in
12:52
Speaker 1: as well in this universe specifically other stuff people like these.
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Speaker 1: It does not seem stable. And I don't know if
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Speaker 1: it's because they are trying to bring in someone that's
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Speaker 1: a good fit, because I know Snyder has been a
13:08
Speaker 1: part of this for a while, right since Christian Bale
13:12
Speaker 1: was he part of the Christian bille No, that's Christopher Nolan.
13:15
Speaker 1: It's kind of a biscuit. There's so many people in here.
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Speaker 1: So he was a part of the cavil affletic world. Yeah, okay, yes,
13:25
Speaker 1: I'm caught up. Yeah yeah, Well, and so again, we
13:31
Speaker 1: could come back and do a whole episode on this, um.
13:34
Speaker 1: And I know I'm like coming out strong, but I promise,
13:37
Speaker 1: I promise, I don't have a problem. I like, I
13:40
Speaker 1: like some of these things. Um. And one of the
13:43
Speaker 1: things I saw a lot in articles defending Snyder have
13:46
Speaker 1: some kind of like version of well, every group is
13:50
Speaker 1: problematic in some way, which is true at least, especially
13:54
Speaker 1: like when in this specific conversation, when you're talking about
13:56
Speaker 1: these kind of big fandoms. Here's a quote um. For
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Speaker 1: some reason, though, the toxic tags often tossed onto Zack
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Speaker 1: Snyder's DC fans like their unwanted freaks. Moreover, Warner Media
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Speaker 1: CEO and Sarnov joined the chorus of booze. Sarnof admitted
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Speaker 1: to Variety that behavior is reprehensible. Don't matter what franchise
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Speaker 1: you're talking about or what business you're talking about, is
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Speaker 1: completely unacceptable. I'm very disappointed in the fans that have
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Speaker 1: chosen to go that negative place with regards to d C,
14:23
Speaker 1: with regard to some of our executives. Quite frankly, Sarnov
14:27
Speaker 1: comes across as a Karen, would you like cheese with
14:30
Speaker 1: your wine? She tossed everyone in the trash. On some level,
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Speaker 1: her bitterness is understandable, after all, there are some nasty
14:36
Speaker 1: folks out there. Nevertheless, she's misinformed. Can you imagine Marvel
14:41
Speaker 1: Studios president Kevin Figi bashing the m c U fans
14:44
Speaker 1: who demanded that The Falcon and Winter Soldier be a
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Speaker 1: gay love story. Furthermore, Warner brothers inability to reason and
14:50
Speaker 1: communicate with Snyder fans is among the worst PR disasters
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Speaker 1: in decades. The hypocrisy of a studio operating in such
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Speaker 1: a toxic inner to supposedly toxic followers is shocking. From
15:02
Speaker 1: my perspective. He has among the most passionate fans I've
15:05
Speaker 1: ever seen. They moved mountains on social media to have
15:08
Speaker 1: the Snyder cut finished and released. Warner Brothers swiped left,
15:12
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers slammed the doors in their faces and left
15:15
Speaker 1: them out in the cold. There's a lot to pick
15:17
Speaker 1: part in that quote. Okay, okay, um, so the rubbing
15:26
Speaker 1: of the forehead, Okay, I do. I am a fan
15:30
Speaker 1: of things. I am a big fan of things. I
15:32
Speaker 1: get hurt by choices creators make. I try to keep
15:35
Speaker 1: it all in perspective of ultimately, you know, this is
15:39
Speaker 1: a entertainment. I don't own um and what I want,
15:45
Speaker 1: what I think, you know a lot of people might want.
15:49
Speaker 1: That's not what everybody wants, and that's not what's gonna
15:51
Speaker 1: happen a lot of times. In fact, let me backtrack,
15:55
Speaker 1: here because I knew people wanted the Snyder cut. The
16:00
Speaker 1: reason Snyder stopped Justice League was because of a death
16:04
Speaker 1: in his family, a tragic death. So they brought on
16:08
Speaker 1: we did mm hmmm. Are the fans accusing Warner Brothers
16:14
Speaker 1: of finding an excuse to replace him to begin with?
16:19
Speaker 1: Or are they upset that they didn't just pause the
16:23
Speaker 1: filming and let him grieve and then come back like
16:26
Speaker 1: what was the controversy again that? Because that seems to
16:29
Speaker 1: be reasonable to continue along with the project. But I
16:35
Speaker 1: guess Snyder didn't give his blessing to who would do it?
16:38
Speaker 1: Or two if they can do it? Is that the
16:40
Speaker 1: is that the Yeah? I mean it's it's it's a
16:44
Speaker 1: bunch of things. I think that. Like I said at
16:47
Speaker 1: the start, this is I keep saying that DC, but
16:50
Speaker 1: it's more of like the Snyder verse fans that we're
16:52
Speaker 1: talking about. Um, so they thought like this is his pinnacle,
16:56
Speaker 1: this is going to be the you know, the last
16:59
Speaker 1: thing he might do, and it's going to be really good,
17:01
Speaker 1: and then he leaves. Instead of stopping it, they bring
17:05
Speaker 1: in Josh Weeden, who had done the Avengers and so
17:08
Speaker 1: this is where that kind of conspiracy theory angle comes in.
17:11
Speaker 1: I like, but he was in Marvel and now you're
17:12
Speaker 1: bringing him in here, which we'll talk about what's going
17:15
Speaker 1: on right now in a second. Um. So some people
17:19
Speaker 1: have like that conspiracy level anger about it. Others are
17:23
Speaker 1: more just like why didn't you just wait to finish it?
17:27
Speaker 1: And because it was kind of widely not the finished
17:30
Speaker 1: product was a mess. That's kind of the consensus that
17:36
Speaker 1: it was, like, well, it could have been so good.
17:39
Speaker 1: And then this, like I said, according to most stuff
17:42
Speaker 1: I read, there was not a mysterious cut like waiting,
17:45
Speaker 1: but there was like this I myth or like idea
17:48
Speaker 1: that there was and they were holding it. People viewed it.
17:52
Speaker 1: They did, but that's we're going to talk about that
17:54
Speaker 1: in a second. But it didn't exist previously. Um. But
17:58
Speaker 1: they were saying, like it's there and you won't let
18:00
Speaker 1: see it, okay, because I from what I read, the
18:03
Speaker 1: critics really bombed it, like hated. Oh well, maybe I'm wrong.
18:11
Speaker 1: Maybe there's just the people I follow or I've seen
18:13
Speaker 1: in my timeline and they're like, oh no, hope, this
18:15
Speaker 1: was not worth it. Right. Well, yeah, we'll talk about
18:19
Speaker 1: that more in a second. To you. One of the
18:20
Speaker 1: other things I want to say here is as I
18:23
Speaker 1: was kind of alluding to, like any creator who's kind
18:27
Speaker 1: of like, you know, like if you are in the
18:32
Speaker 1: DC world and you don't like DC, that can be
18:34
Speaker 1: a tough pill to swallow. I from what I read,
18:37
Speaker 1: that is not what was going on here. She was
18:39
Speaker 1: saying like there they were all of these kind of
18:44
Speaker 1: toxic actors in the space, like toxic fans in space.
18:48
Speaker 1: That's not That's not what I from what I gather,
18:52
Speaker 1: that's not what she was talking about was like DC
18:55
Speaker 1: fans at general. She was talking about this very specific thing.
18:59
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but I don't think. I think
19:03
Speaker 1: she was talking about what we've talked about several times
19:06
Speaker 1: about like the kind of abuse actors and creators and
19:10
Speaker 1: people will higher ups face when you do something that
19:14
Speaker 1: that fans don't like. And you can, like I said,
19:16
Speaker 1: you can have a valid opinion that you can voice
19:18
Speaker 1: in a way that isn't hateful and isn't toxic, that's
19:20
Speaker 1: a different thing. But if you're kind of like swarming, attacking,
19:24
Speaker 1: hating somebody, then that's like toxic territory. That like when
19:30
Speaker 1: we talked about that in our Johnny Depp Amber heard
19:32
Speaker 1: thing like they kind of we're constantly mentioned, is like
19:37
Speaker 1: helped sway the trial the way when with their presence
19:41
Speaker 1: on social media because they thought Amber Heard was ruining
19:46
Speaker 1: their DC universe. Interesting. Also, yeah, let's talk about if
19:51
Speaker 1: they had made Falcon in the Winter Soldier a Galo story.
19:53
Speaker 1: Do you think that would have gone over well? Because
19:56
Speaker 1: I don't. People are pussing themselves for the different ethnicity,
20:01
Speaker 1: playing different roles that would never existing, or playing the
20:04
Speaker 1: original roles. Are like, but that's not what we like
20:06
Speaker 1: now I love it? Yes, okay. Another thing reporters and
20:27
Speaker 1: general people about the Internet, which I did think about
20:30
Speaker 1: when I was putting this together, and have received death threats, slurs,
20:33
Speaker 1: and hateful messaging for the crime of publicly not being interested,
20:36
Speaker 1: not being interested, not even not liking, not being interested
20:39
Speaker 1: in the Snyder cut um or dared not like his
20:41
Speaker 1: other works, um d C Comics, and Warner Brothers executives
20:46
Speaker 1: stopped using Twitter altogether due to balance a lot of
20:49
Speaker 1: hate that they received. Yeah, okay. Snyders seemed in some
20:53
Speaker 1: ways to encourage this whole thing. He told The New
20:55
Speaker 1: York Times that while sometimes terrifying, quote, it's in some
20:58
Speaker 1: ways fun to serve the way of a cultural phenomenon um.
21:02
Speaker 1: He allegedly kept a list of those who doubted him
21:05
Speaker 1: and those he wanted to confront, but was held back
21:09
Speaker 1: from doing so, Like he'd be like, oh, if only
21:12
Speaker 1: I could confront this person. You know who it is,
21:15
Speaker 1: wink wink um. So there's that from Vox. Here's a quote.
21:20
Speaker 1: Not only did the crusade stand out in terms of
21:22
Speaker 1: volume of harassment, but frequently in terms of its tone.
21:25
Speaker 1: As detailed in a medium post by cultural writer jam Carter,
21:28
Speaker 1: the key figures of the movement included one YouTuber who
21:31
Speaker 1: posted a meme in which Marvel had Kevin Figi was
21:33
Speaker 1: murdered by Nazis, and a blogger who attacked everyone even
21:37
Speaker 1: peripherally related to the Justice League with quote vulgarity and
21:40
Speaker 1: racially charged histeronics. So that's what we're talking about. That's
21:47
Speaker 1: that's I just want to be like a hundred for
21:49
Speaker 1: sick clear because I am getting mad. But I'm getting
21:51
Speaker 1: mad at these folks, which do exist in a lot
21:57
Speaker 1: of fandom, almost all fandom, all fandom probably. But the
22:00
Speaker 1: quote continues, So when we discussed the Snyder cut, then
22:03
Speaker 1: we're not only discussing the film's long journey to release.
22:05
Speaker 1: We're also discussing a sustained harassment campaign rooted in fans
22:08
Speaker 1: loyalty to and love of Zack Snyder himself. Snyder is
22:12
Speaker 1: a straight, white male creator known for making movies that
22:14
Speaker 1: showcased grim, dark, violent, testosterone field fantasies of hyper masculinity.
22:20
Speaker 1: I would argue that it's far more accurate to describe
22:23
Speaker 1: it as a conspiracy theory that fans brought to the
22:25
Speaker 1: studio's attention through toxic online harassment. Warner Brothers decision to
22:29
Speaker 1: ask Snyder to edit a version the film he was
22:31
Speaker 1: originally slated to direct, arose as a response to demand
22:34
Speaker 1: from an entitled, male dominated fandom. Imagine if the fifty
22:37
Speaker 1: Shades of Gray fandom, full of older female romance fans,
22:40
Speaker 1: suddenly began demanding a new sixties Shades of Gray with
22:43
Speaker 1: all their consumers might Would the media's reaction be one
22:46
Speaker 1: of breathless excitement. Would it be one of condescending disbelief,
22:50
Speaker 1: tinged with mockery. Compared to the massive media attention garnered
22:54
Speaker 1: by fans calls to release the Snyder cut, the hashtag
22:56
Speaker 1: Barrier Gays campaign received a pittance of cultural attention, and
23:00
Speaker 1: it arguably achieved a negative result. At the Writer's Guild panel,
23:03
Speaker 1: several writers actively resisted the call to stop killing queer
23:07
Speaker 1: characters and pushed back against the idea that fans should
23:09
Speaker 1: fixate on character's sexuality at all. And then from Time,
23:15
Speaker 1: the man who originally started to change dot org petition
23:17
Speaker 1: to release the Snyder Cut, ROBERTA. Mata, has made racist
23:20
Speaker 1: and sexist comments and another change dot org petition. He
23:23
Speaker 1: called his critics feminist, Black Lives Matter advocates and social
23:27
Speaker 1: justice warriors trying to silence him for the sake of
23:29
Speaker 1: quote political correctness. To their credit, other prominent voices in
23:33
Speaker 1: the release of Snyder Cut movement have disavowed madam. And
23:37
Speaker 1: so this kind of brings us to the like what
23:39
Speaker 1: I was saying before is which fans get hurt Because
23:42
Speaker 1: here's another quote from time. Warner Brothers is far from
23:46
Speaker 1: the first studio to bend to the will of their
23:47
Speaker 1: loudest critics. After a group of misogynists protested the all
23:50
Speaker 1: female Ghostbusters movie and harassed and hacked one of its stars,
23:54
Speaker 1: Leslie Jones, to the point of driving her off social media.
23:57
Speaker 1: Columbia Pictures Greenlight, another Ghostbusters movie goes Sbusters Afterlife, directed
24:01
Speaker 1: by Jason Reitman, and do out next year that would
24:03
Speaker 1: ignore the events of the six film. Rightman declared he
24:06
Speaker 1: would quote hand the movie back to the fans, which
24:10
Speaker 1: many took us a suggestion that the misogynist trolls who
24:13
Speaker 1: railed against a female Ghostbusters were the true fans and
24:17
Speaker 1: women were not um. And that's something we talked about
24:20
Speaker 1: with the Last Jedi as well, when they kind of
24:24
Speaker 1: reconed and ignored everything that happened in the Last Yet
24:27
Speaker 1: I after all this bad outcry, like who won in
24:29
Speaker 1: that it was kind of these like racist, sexist people
24:32
Speaker 1: and like, like again, you cannot like the twenty sixteen Ghostbusters,
24:37
Speaker 1: you cannot like the Last Jedi. But the people who
24:40
Speaker 1: were leading these campaigns so much but was infiltrated by
24:45
Speaker 1: that toxicity, and they were the ones that got what
24:49
Speaker 1: they wanted in a variety of reasons, including wanting to
24:53
Speaker 1: distance from Weedon to satisfy fans and make up with Snyder.
24:57
Speaker 1: HBO put seventy million dollars more or to the Snyder
25:01
Speaker 1: cut um. And this was after Major Leae flopped, which
25:04
Speaker 1: fans blamed Disney Slash Marvel and the media for that
25:08
Speaker 1: they were paying for good reviews and d C was
25:11
Speaker 1: being oppressed essentially, was a argument I heard a lot.
25:14
Speaker 1: They also attacked Star Wars properties as a way to
25:17
Speaker 1: damage Disney, so they were some of the like Star
25:19
Speaker 1: Wars hate that was coming, even they didn't care about
25:21
Speaker 1: Star Wars. Some speculate that A. T and T and
25:24
Speaker 1: HBO did this purposefully to get subscribers, like they knew
25:27
Speaker 1: like this would stir up like old people will come
25:29
Speaker 1: and watch the Snyder cut. Um. The think pieces for
25:33
Speaker 1: whether the resulting film is good are too much for
25:36
Speaker 1: right now, so many argue about whether it was worth
25:39
Speaker 1: it or just a huge company bowing to a small
25:42
Speaker 1: but loud group. Someone't even call them toxic, which m hmmm,
25:47
Speaker 1: I would disagree. It is two and forty two minutes long.
25:51
Speaker 1: But Snyder fans loved it and up fair about our
25:54
Speaker 1: critics did too, to be fair fair about our critics
25:56
Speaker 1: did too. But yeah, I was kind of shocked at
25:59
Speaker 1: how problematic things I found in this very brief research,
26:02
Speaker 1: and that brings us kind of to you today, which
26:05
Speaker 1: is yes. Recently, James Gunn and Peter Saffron were named
26:08
Speaker 1: co heads of the newly formed DC Studios, and there
26:11
Speaker 1: was enormous backlash, and that's like it's its own thing.
26:17
Speaker 1: That is, it's something. But but um, they both released
26:21
Speaker 1: statements that were kind of like, wow, I get not
26:26
Speaker 1: being disappointed or not being happy or but these are
26:29
Speaker 1: like death threats and hateful things. I kind of was
26:32
Speaker 1: immediately like, well, they just stick up for the women
26:35
Speaker 1: in your films. But anyway, that's also different. Yes, report
26:42
Speaker 1: found that of the Snyder Verse may have been powered
26:45
Speaker 1: by bots, which is interesting, but again, yeah, this is
26:49
Speaker 1: sort of my big takeaway is like what fans get
26:53
Speaker 1: what they want because they spent a lot of money
26:55
Speaker 1: tree shoot, this based on what sounds like to be
26:59
Speaker 1: just a small all this group of very very angry fans,
27:04
Speaker 1: very angry, toxic fans, And uh, I do I do
27:10
Speaker 1: get being upset. I promise you about a thing that
27:13
Speaker 1: you love. But it's just a difference between that and
27:20
Speaker 1: threatening people, um online and kind of controlling the narrative
27:25
Speaker 1: and and silencing silencing other people who don't agree with you.
27:32
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's definitely the opposite of as people talk
27:37
Speaker 1: about being too woke or too politically correct, and you
27:40
Speaker 1: can't do anything anymore. This is kind of that same
27:42
Speaker 1: other side is if you have this type of loyal
27:45
Speaker 1: type base that wants to keep this level of misogyny
27:49
Speaker 1: in the conversations in like these types of movies and
27:52
Speaker 1: I say level of misogyny meaning like the dudes who
27:54
Speaker 1: go after and I said, the dudes who go after
27:58
Speaker 1: actors and an executive directors or people who have minimal
28:01
Speaker 1: control or what may not have the final say or
28:03
Speaker 1: may have made decision based on finance, which does is
28:06
Speaker 1: hurtful because it is so personal for people. It is
28:10
Speaker 1: interesting that that gets listened to in that respect, But
28:15
Speaker 1: you know, like we give excuses for the other side.
28:17
Speaker 1: It's it's it's weird spectrum of who has the power,
28:21
Speaker 1: who really has the power, and who has perceived power,
28:24
Speaker 1: right for sure, because it's it's definitely so much of
28:29
Speaker 1: this that I was reading was kind of the a
28:34
Speaker 1: word of victims here the media is against us, Disney
28:39
Speaker 1: and Marvel's got a conspiracy plot against us, like all
28:42
Speaker 1: of these things. I don't know. It was definitely like
28:47
Speaker 1: that was one of the things I wasn't expecting as
28:50
Speaker 1: much of was the oh, I'm being victimized by Marvel.
28:54
Speaker 1: Are being victimized by It's kind of like, oh, that's
28:59
Speaker 1: really interesting the versus and I get it, Like I
29:02
Speaker 1: jokingly of her. People talk about who prefers what, and
29:06
Speaker 1: I think, right now, yeah, Marvel had the headway in
29:10
Speaker 1: getting the movies and the characters out there, and this
29:14
Speaker 1: popularity definitely helped that. Disney did buy it out and
29:17
Speaker 1: had a lot more money and now bringing the universes
29:21
Speaker 1: together instead of being it separate. But it's quite interesting
29:25
Speaker 1: because I don't beat comics and I don't have an opinion.
29:28
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the Marvel films because I think they're brainless films.
29:31
Speaker 1: I'm like, great, let me enjoy this action packed, nonsensical blockbuster. Um.
29:37
Speaker 1: You know, I kind of felt the same way about
29:38
Speaker 1: But I really enjoyed Wonder Woman and I'm very sad
29:41
Speaker 1: that she's not coming back. And uh, I think that
29:43
Speaker 1: that's sad, and I understand the second movie flopped. It
29:46
Speaker 1: is what it is. I enjoyed it. Was it ridiculous? Yes?
29:49
Speaker 1: Did I enjoy it? Yes? But it's it's interesting this
29:52
Speaker 1: whole battle between them. There's so many levels of why
29:55
Speaker 1: people are angry. Yeah, and the fact that I'm guessing
29:58
Speaker 1: since Gunn worked with these and Marvel as a Betroyal
30:01
Speaker 1: as well. Yes, oh yes, and that's like what I
30:06
Speaker 1: keep seeing now is oh, he's gonna hire all these
30:10
Speaker 1: Marvel actors to be in d C and the whole
30:15
Speaker 1: thing that happened with Henry Cavill. They're like, oh, I
30:20
Speaker 1: guess he wasn't Slighter Verse, but there was not a Superman.
30:24
Speaker 1: He didn't do a Superman. It was all just Justice
30:26
Speaker 1: League or Batman, right, he was Injustice League. Yeah, yeah,
30:31
Speaker 1: But I mean, it's just so many things I can
30:34
Speaker 1: talk about. But I mean, there are problems with Disney
30:36
Speaker 1: and Marvel, like I don't want to get sound like
30:37
Speaker 1: they are. There are problems with those fandoms as well,
30:41
Speaker 1: but I just hadn't anticipated the level of to me
30:49
Speaker 1: what felt like conspiracy theory. And certainly like Disney does
30:52
Speaker 1: owned so much stuff, so I get that, but wow,
30:58
Speaker 1: some of the things I read, I was like, WHOA,
31:01
Speaker 1: people are ready to fight. Apparently people are ready to fight,
31:04
Speaker 1: and not in the fun fan way that I enjoy. Um. Yeah,
31:10
Speaker 1: you can have like a fun rousing disagreement about like,
31:13
Speaker 1: well I think this is better, but this is not that.
31:16
Speaker 1: This is not fun. No, harassing people's note. No it
31:20
Speaker 1: is not No, it is not so listeners. If you
31:23
Speaker 1: have any thoughts about any of this, If you are
31:25
Speaker 1: a DC fan you've had to deal with any of this,
31:28
Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at Stuffing
31:32
Speaker 1: and stuff at I hurt meia dot com. You can
31:34
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at most of podcast, or on
31:36
Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks
31:40
Speaker 1: as always to your super producer, Christina, Thank you and
31:44
Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening stuff told usuction I Heart Radio.
31:46
Speaker 1: For more podcast in my heart Radio, you can check
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