Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 224. Interview with Bridget Trammell on Her New Book "Trigger Warning"

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224. Interview with Bridget Trammell on Her New Book "Trigger Warning" · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:00
Welcome back to the Four Freedom podcast.
0:02
It's a great day to be alive here in podcast land.
0:04
It says sunshine is shining outside and we are so thankful
0:09
that you're here listening with us today.
0:12
We've got, let's see, man, We're, we're going to Orlando
0:15
soon, aren't we, James? Brett, I was just on the phone
0:18
with Jake yesterday. Who's sharing the room with us,
0:21
our our house with us. Yeah, we're like 2 weeks out for
0:25
me. I'm like 1/2, one, 2-3 weeks
0:29
away from being in Orlando, I think.
0:32
So June 3rd, it's going to be an awesome time.
0:37
I've been having guys. Our association is going to be
0:39
at our house one night hanging out with us.
0:42
They've already, I've got like four or five guys are like, hey,
0:45
we're bringing our families over.
0:46
We're going to have a great time.
0:48
My wife said that that's her favorite nights of the week is
0:51
when we have guys come over. She's joking.
0:53
She, she doesn't like people around too much.
0:56
She's like, we're on vacation with people coming over, but
0:59
that's just who I am. I've got to have people come
1:00
over. We got to hang out.
1:02
We've got two boxes of cigars that I just got in for the
1:05
event, 10 of each of our cigars. Speaking of cigars, Brett, I
1:09
want to thank everyone who has supported us.
1:12
Orders have been coming in this month as we're running 15% off.
1:16
It helps support us in everything that we're doing from
1:19
our books to the podcast, to just sending kids Brett, Brett's
1:25
college, sorry, sending kids, Brett's kids to college and
1:29
eventually my kids to college. Like all this is helping it out.
1:32
It's helping expand our reach and promote some things.
1:36
And so we thank you for doing those things and helping us out.
1:40
We're still running. We've got the two weeks left of
1:42
the 15% off. So if you haven't got any, go
1:44
and check that out and buy some. It's a great deal right now for
1:48
you. Father's Day is coming up.
1:50
You can support that by by getting your dad a a great 4
1:53
Freedom cigar. So yeah.
1:55
Absolutely. And let's see, I do say I don't
1:58
think that we have anything else going on in the future.
2:01
But hey, when's your vacation Bible school?
2:04
Vacation Bible School is the Sunday I get back from the
2:07
convention, so June 14th through 18th is my Bible school.
2:11
So for me, my Bible school is a Sunday before the convention and
2:15
then we end Bible school and then the next morning I come to
2:20
Orlando. So ours is before, y'all's is
2:23
after. But we had to.
2:25
Shorten it a little bit this year we're.
2:26
Doing Sunday night through Wednesday night.
2:29
But Vacation Bible School is always a great time.
2:32
You know, it's something we look forward to.
2:35
And yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to our interview today.
2:39
Yeah, interview's great. Before we do that, I had someone
2:42
reach out to me. We have some merch as well.
2:45
If people want to buy shirts and hoodies and hats and mugs, you
2:49
can go to our merch store. It's the T public, the links on
2:53
there. If you ever want to support us
2:55
that way, we're thank you for. I have a Four Freedom hoodie.
2:59
You've seen it obviously it is the most comfortable hoodie I've
3:03
I've ever worn. I've bought others, it's the
3:05
most comfortable 1. So we've got great merch.
3:08
Yeah. So if you want to go check that
3:09
out, you can get it any color you want.
3:12
It's a great thing there. Just wanted to plug that for a
3:14
minute as people were going into their summer.
3:17
We hope that you you join us and meet up with us.
3:21
As I share at the end of this interview, there's everything we
3:23
can do. Reach out to us on social media,
3:26
like or share. The interview we've got today is
3:28
with Bridget Trammell recently came out of the book called
3:31
Trigger Warning, and we are excited about having her come on
3:34
and share her thoughts, share her experience.
3:38
If you haven't bought the book, it's on Amazon for I think 15 or
3:42
20 bucks, I can't remember. Great book.
3:45
She's very vulnerable. It's 250 pages.
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It's one of those books, Brett, as you read, there's some books
3:52
like you have to force yourself to finish.
3:54
You get started and you're like, man, I can't believe I started
3:57
this book. I don't want to not finish it
3:59
because then that's just another book that I've got that I didn't
4:02
finish. This is one of those books.
4:04
I read it. I'm not a fast reader.
4:06
I read it in about 3 days, maybe 4 days total, but I couldn't put
4:11
it down like it. I, I would read 90 pages and I'm
4:14
like, I don't want to stop, but I've got other things to do, so
4:17
I've got to stop. And then the next day I pick it
4:20
back up and I'd read another 8090 pages and I've just that.
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That's how I read the book and I just wanted to continue to get
4:27
into it because I wanted to see where the story was leading.
4:30
She's very vulnerable and opened up with her story and so it's a
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very good read if you want to. It's very easy read, but very
4:39
vulnerable. The warning, trigger warning is
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on there for a reason because you go through some ups and
4:45
downs of the IFB and how she was raised.
4:49
She doesn't name drop a lot of people.
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She only name drops just a couple of close people.
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You can sort of put the pieces together of who she's talking
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about if you're familiar with the IFB movement, but her dad's
5:00
Lou Rossi and it's just a big powerhouse and IFB pastoring a
5:04
church now. And you're going to be delighted
5:07
by the book, but also the interview.
5:10
So hopefully this helps out today as we get started on this
5:13
interview. Looking forward to it.
5:16
Let's go. For freedom set me free.
5:19
Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee grace.
5:22
Lift the flame. Now I'm puffing.
5:24
Peace cigars and Victory Justified released.
5:29
Welcome to the Four Freedom Podcast.
5:31
This podcast exists to bring the freedom of the gospel for
5:35
everyday Christians with everyday issues.
5:38
I ain't. Saved by dress codes, not about
5:40
what I eat. I'm covered in the
5:42
righteousness. Washed from head to feet.
5:44
No tally of tradition. No man made code.
5:47
Blood bought my freedom. Now I ride that road.
5:49
They clutch pearls when they see smoke rings rise, but my praise
5:52
still ascends past the legalist cries.
5:55
Christ plus nothing. That's the real math.
5:57
So miss me with your fence laws and your extra path.
6:00
He sat with sinners. I'm sitting with Saints, sipping
6:03
grace from the bottle. No room for face.
6:05
I like one for liberty. Toast to the king.
6:08
Every ash of sermon. Death has lost its sting.
6:11
For freedom He set me free. Not for change, not for guilt,
6:15
not for Pharisee Grace. Let the flame, Now I'm puffing
6:18
peace, cigars and victory justified released.
6:22
For freedom He set me free. Not for change, not for guilt,
6:25
not for Pharisee grace. Let the flame now I'm puffing
6:29
peace, cigars and victory Justified released.
6:33
Let grace begin now. Here are.
6:41
Your hosts, James Seyfried and Brett Martin, welcome back to
6:47
the show. We are excited about having this
6:48
Bridget Trammell with us today. Bridget is a world renowned
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author with her first book coming out recently.
6:55
She's a counselor, a speaker now with her recent book, Trigger
7:00
Trigger Warning. She is passionate about helping
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people heal from the effects of abuse and control inside and
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outside of the IFB movement, where she was raised in, where
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we were raised in, and we are thrilled to have her on with us
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today. Bridget, why don't you give us
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just a little bit about yourself and your upbringing and how you
7:17
came out of the IP world. Let our audience know who you
7:20
are and let us know. We'll we'll jump into the book
7:23
talk in just a minute. Yes, thanks so much guys for
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having me. I'm so excited to be here today.
7:28
I promise God, anywhere I got a chance to share my story, I
7:32
would always share it. And yes, I did grow up in the
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independent Fundamental Baptist movement.
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My dad was a pastor in that movement.
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We ended up traveling all over the country to hundreds of
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churches. We had an evangelistic ministry.
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So every week we were in a different independent Baptist
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Church. We had a big RV that had five
7:53
slide outs. We pulled it with a big Western
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Flyer semi truck. So we were just rolling and play
7:59
the piano, play the violin, and we had C DS and all this.
8:02
So we're like a traveling family in the independent Baptist
8:05
world. And that is kind of what I knew.
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I did grow up very much shaped by the fear of of divine
8:15
punishment, high control, the performance culture, obedience.
8:21
I'm sure you guys understand that as well.
8:23
Went to multiple IFB colleges. There was a very heavy emphasis
8:28
on outward behavior and appearances, and you learn
8:32
pretty quickly what was acceptable and what was not,
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especially as a woman in the independent Baptist movement.
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And if you didn't really fit into that mold, shame was really
8:42
the tool that kind of kept you in line.
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And a lot of people think that, you know, trauma might just come
8:47
from one catastrophic event. We see these things like, you
8:51
know, shiny happy people or let us pray PREY these documentaries
8:56
of abuse, but a lot of our story is not just being molested or or
9:01
some big catastrophic event. It came through sort of a death
9:05
by 1000 cuts little moments that are shaped that kind of gave us
9:10
the mindset of using your voice is rebellion or your intuition
9:16
can't be trusted or God is disappointed in you or his love
9:20
has to be earned. And so some of these things
9:24
really set in an early age and kind of shaped where I ended up.
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I married an independent Baptist pastor and eventually was
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travelling with him on the road. And that's kind of where my
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story begins. And trigger warning.
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And you've read, I'm sure, what I've talked about there.
9:44
Yeah, yeah, I've read all that and it's been fantastic.
9:48
I went to school with your sister and Brett interact with
9:52
some people as well. And we're just thankful that you
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are taking the time to come on, talk to us.
9:59
You know, one of the things and we're going to talk about it is
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it's just the vulnerability that you write.
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I've wrote a book and I'm in the process of writing a second book
10:06
right now. And that process of wanting to
10:09
be vulnerable is there, but it's hard as well.
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And so I appreciate as you walk through that the, the
10:15
vulnerability that you gave. And I know it's helping people.
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I've seen the comments online and a lot of people have have
10:22
recommended it, which is a great thing.
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You #1 on the Amazon bestseller for like 14 days in a row, which
10:29
is incredible. That's awesome that, you know,
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people like us would, would write a book and people would,
10:35
would want to buy it and listen to us.
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And so so Brett, once you get started with talking about the
10:40
book and we'll lead it off from there.
10:42
So Bridget, I wanted to ask you what what led to you writing
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trigger warning and as you wrote it, what, what was it like for
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you personally to revisit some of these experiences and
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actually put them pen to paper? That's a great question and I'll
10:59
be completely vulnerable and honest with you guys.
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It took me 3 years to put it all on paper and there were trauma
11:07
responses. There were times where I was in
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the fetal position shaking and crying, reliving some of this
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really intense trauma that you can read about in the book.
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There's the name of it is Trigger Warning.
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So that should tell you everything.
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But there's disclaimers in the front and resources for domestic
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violence and, you know, sexual thing.
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So it's a very explosive book. And it took a lot of courage for
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me to write. And after years, I'll be honest
11:37
with you of my own trauma, you know, with the hyper vigilance
11:41
and trying to kind of keep that fear monster in the cage, the
11:45
fear monster of people's opinions or of keeping that
11:49
perfect image that we are all sort of taught to do in these
11:52
high performance cultures. Or even some of the villains in
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my story that I knew would try to discredit me.
11:58
I finally found myself in a safe place in life to be able to go
12:03
to trauma counseling myself. I went to trauma counseling for
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years. I did EMDR therapy.
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I explored all of these memories.
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And it was not easy, but after putting in the work, I was able
12:15
to tell my story. And again, it took me 3 years to
12:19
hit the upload button. I was terrified because putting
12:21
myself out there and my intimate trauma experiences.
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But I did find that once I told my story, and I did it shaking
12:29
and scared and trembling, I found that stories are
12:33
contagious. You know, when you put out your
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story, even if you're scared to do it, it gives other people
12:39
permission to tell theirs. And I'm seeing this tidal wave
12:43
of storytelling and healing. I'm getting message after
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message after message of people who are saying, seeing you use
12:51
your voice has helped me find mine.
12:54
And you know, courage begets courage.
12:57
And I'm so excited that this book has really been a catalyst
13:03
for helping people unlock their voice.
13:05
Because so often we see in these holiness movements or these
13:09
religious trauma settings that the voice is silenced.
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And the voice of 1 victim can be easily silenced.
13:18
But together, if we all use our voice, we become this army of
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truth that cannot be ignored. And that's what this book is
13:27
really meant to do, is to antagonize people, to use their
13:31
voice and tell their story. Yeah, that's great.
13:34
And I, I love the, the vulnerability, like I said, as I
13:38
walked through that and read some of it, it took me like 3 or
13:41
4 days to read through it every night.
13:44
And I'd come home and I'd go, Ally, I got to tell you this
13:46
story like I got to tell you about this.
13:48
And so she finally picked it up and she was like, how much
13:52
detail is she going to get into? Like she's asking me this and I
13:54
said, listen, I let me tell you this story.
13:57
It's I'm like telling her all these stories that they're in
14:00
there. I said, you're going to get to
14:01
it. But like the story of you in the
14:04
on I-85 and riding down the road.
14:06
Oh my. I had to put the book down.
14:08
Like I was in tears reading through that part of the story
14:12
because I'm thinking, how can someone do this to someone else?
14:17
The amount of pain that puts you through.
14:20
I felt that coming through the page and so thankful again that
14:23
you were vulnerable in telling that you'd have to, but you were
14:27
willing to to share that. So I'm thankful for that as well
14:31
and I know many that help. So there are intense stories
14:35
that that will make you cry. Obviously they're very
14:37
devastating to read and difficult to read, but there's
14:40
also some humorous stories in there where I don't know if
14:43
you've read the part where I had just become a single mom.
14:47
I had fled from my husband in the middle of the night with a 2
14:50
year old baby and a two week old baby.
14:52
And really leaving my husband meant leaving the IFB movement
14:56
and everything I had ever known. There was a low key type of
15:00
shunning that occurred around divorce and, and the sin of, of
15:04
not submitting to your husband, no matter how off the grid he
15:08
might be at the time. But I remember I had just
15:12
recovered from AC Section 2 weeks ago.
15:14
I'm, I'm in severe pain. I've got these two babies and I
15:18
still wore skirts, you know, because we grew up wearing
15:21
skirts. And I remember the first day
15:24
like it was yesterday, vividly. I remember thinking, I think God
15:29
is not going to be mad at me if I wear these pajama pants to the
15:33
grocery store because it's much easier to wrangle 2 very small
15:38
babies at the grocery store. And I remember my heart pounding
15:41
and going to the grocery store and thinking, I hope no men are
15:44
lusting after me, You know, just postpartum.
15:47
And you know, there's even some humorous stories in there that I
15:50
think people can relate to having been in the holiness
15:53
culture. I know that, you know, we're
15:56
sitting here talking before you got on the interview and I
15:59
haven't had a chance to read the book yet, but James is telling
16:02
me stories from the book before you got on and I had to pick my
16:06
job a couple of times. So I'm I'm looking forward to
16:10
reading the book myself. So yes.
16:11
Thank you. So as you, this is people ask me
16:15
this question as well, and I've only wrote two books now.
16:18
My second one will be coming out soon.
16:20
But the question is always how do you start writing a book,
16:22
right? How do you begin this process of
16:25
putting pen to paper and begin doing it?
16:28
And I thought the the idea that the, the framework for how you
16:32
wrote the book was fantastic with the sports analogy, the
16:36
coach, the time out, the, the, the sub in a player in what,
16:41
what was the reason behind that? What drew you to that approach
16:45
of why you decided to use that to communicate your message?
16:50
I'm sure sports were big for you as well.
16:52
For me, I'm a coach as well, but but sort of share that process
16:56
and then we're going to start walking through the nuts and
16:57
bolts of the book here in a minute.
16:59
Sure. Absolutely.
17:00
Well, you know, you're an author, James.
17:02
When you start a book, it's kind of just a giant verbal dump on
17:06
paper. That's where you start.
17:08
And for me, of course, writing these really intricate, deep,
17:13
traumatizing stories, I had to just dump it all on paper.
17:17
But it's funny you mention the sports analogy because when I
17:19
first began in my book, I had a huge health coaching company
17:22
with 9 offices, 75 employees all across the Carolinas.
17:27
So I had initially called the title of the book coaching me
17:32
and I thought it was going to be this really cool, like girl,
17:34
wash your face, like self help smiling on the front.
17:38
And my editor halfway through editing my book, he said this is
17:43
really kind of a bait and switch because it's got this like cute
17:48
smile on the front. It says coaching me.
17:50
It looks so friendly. And then you pick it up and it's
17:52
all these horrific stories of like domestic violence and
17:55
trauma. And you're checking off the
17:56
trauma that you have and it like hits you right in the face.
17:59
So at the last minute we actually changed the name to
18:04
trigger warning because when you pick up the book, it's more
18:07
about heart pounding adrenaline and it kind of smacks you right
18:11
into the the truth. So the disclaimer is actually in
18:15
the title Trigger Warning, That's how that came about.
18:20
Now I know that, you know, all of us that you know have been in
18:24
the IFB, grew up in the IFB. We are intimately familiar with
18:29
trauma for sure. And I, you know, in chapter 1,
18:32
you talk about how people can build their lives around trauma,
18:36
how they think, relate, see the world.
18:38
You actually state that trauma doesn't define you, it refines
18:43
you. So I just want to ask, what's
18:46
the first step toward breaking that?
18:47
Pattern. I have to say the first step of
18:53
healing to trauma is awareness, you know, because we're only as
18:58
sane as we know the truth about ourselves and about others.
19:04
And so many people don't want to acknowledge that they were
19:07
abused. The hardest thing to hear is
19:10
you're a victim of abuse, whether it's sexual or physical
19:13
or spiritual or emotional, because what hits you at your
19:17
core is that if I was abused, that means I was unloved,
19:24
unworthy, unacknowledged, unimportant.
19:28
And and then that also hits every trauma.
19:31
Every abuse is inevitably religious trauma because we go,
19:36
why did God do this to me? You know, inevitably.
19:39
So if we can go toward that pain and accept the truth that we are
19:44
victims of trauma, then we can see it for what it is, reframe
19:50
it and heal from it because you can't heal, which you can't
19:54
feel. Trauma is not a memory, it's a
19:56
body part. If you've ever read the book The
19:59
Body Keeps the Score, that's a fantastic place to start because
20:03
when we suppress trauma, we have a host of trauma responses,
20:07
anywhere from hyper vigilance to emotional dysregulation to
20:13
putting up a wall or even health problems, stomach problems.
20:16
So acknowledging it and going toward the pain is the first
20:20
step. I always tell my clients, you
20:22
know, alligators sit on the. Bottom of a lake or a swamp, and
20:26
every once in a while, every couple hours, an alligator will
20:29
let out a snort and you'll see these tiny bubbles on top of the
20:33
water. That's what trauma's like.
20:35
It's like I don't really care what behaviors are exhibiting.
20:39
I care about the alligator down below.
20:42
Let's figure out what is at the bottom of the lake lurking.
20:46
What memory, What core belief do you hold from an early child
20:51
that is causing these trauma response?
20:53
And when we explore what's down there, then we can really allow
20:58
that alligator to move on and move on and heal and find
21:02
freedom from these trauma responses.
21:05
Well, let me ask you what what tends to be the biggest obstacle
21:09
toward taking that first step of acknowledgement for people?
21:13
In chapter 1, I have two things as we're beginning the journey
21:17
on my book, but they're two lies that often we tell ourselves.
21:22
The first lie is my life isn't worth changing.
21:26
And a lot of times people don't understand abuse.
21:29
They don't. So the first thing I do in my
21:31
book is define it and abuse is anytime your boundaries are
21:36
disrespected, controlled, manipulated or violated.
21:41
So the farther that boundary is pushed, the more intense the
21:45
abuse becomes. Of course, rape and murder,
21:48
those are those are some of the worst violations of our
21:50
boundaries. We call those big T traumas, you
21:53
know, but there are so many little T trauma, micro abuses or
21:58
micro traumas that occur in everyday life that often times
22:02
we don't want to ignore acknowledge them.
22:04
You know, a lot of times I talk to women who go, well, he only
22:08
hit me one time or he's he's a great dad.
22:11
He provides for the family. Or, you know, I know my
22:14
mother-in-law is, is triangulated with my husband,
22:17
but she doesn't know any better and she's ripping apart our
22:21
family. These little things that we kind
22:23
of excuse often times keep us from living life to the fullest
22:28
and putting down boundaries. And then the second lie that we
22:31
tell ourselves is, it's too hard to change my life.
22:36
And for some victims, this can be true.
22:38
It can be dangerous for them to leave an abuser because he could
22:42
hurt them, or he has threatened them, or there's a feeling of
22:46
unsafety or they don't have resources to go to.
22:49
So often times our brain even minimizes that abuse to protect
22:54
us from the truth of it. Or there may be a type of
22:58
loyalty to the abuser. So sometimes victims don't don't
23:01
really grasp the fact that they have the ability to put down a
23:06
boundary or walk away. Sometimes they're stuck in
23:09
fight, flight, freeze or fawn trying to please that abuser or
23:14
they just don't still feel safe. So I have in my book on page 23
23:19
a way to conduct a risk assessment of what is it going
23:23
to cost me to leave and what resources do I need to get in
23:27
order to put these boundaries down or leave this abusive
23:31
situation. Want to follow up before we get
23:34
to the next question. In the book, you talk about how
23:38
often you had been hurt, abused, victimized, your husband left
23:45
for days and weeks on the end, and then we'll finally come
23:47
home. What was the reason?
23:51
And I'll preface this after I asked the question, what was the
23:54
reason it took you so long to continue putting up with abuse
23:58
in order to move on from the hurt?
24:01
And the reason I ask that is the COVID happened in 2019-2020.
24:06
March of 2020, my pastor resigned.
24:10
I was the associate pastor. He resigned in June of 2020.
24:13
And I became the the interim step in guy as we're, we're
24:16
trying to walk through all that. Then the next Sunday after I
24:21
preached my first Sunday as the interim guy, the, the middle
24:25
guy, I had three different women come to me.
24:28
One husband was absent, wasn't there.
24:32
He was there, but he never really did anything.
24:34
The second one, I mean, they were going through some verbal
24:37
abuse. The third one was physical
24:39
abuse, I mean, actually getting hurt and, and, and I began
24:43
advising the, the one that was in the physical abuse, I said
24:46
immediately leave. Like you got to get away, like
24:48
you are being tormented right now.
24:50
And we begin to walk through with these three individuals,
24:53
three families, one of them, they're still married.
24:56
They made a full reconciliation. The other two have gotten
25:00
divorces. But walking through that and
25:03
counseling through that began to see the other side of them.
25:06
Like how did this happen? Why is this here?
25:08
Why is this taking? So like, how, why are you just
25:11
coming to us now? So what is the mindset in a
25:15
lady? And again, this is Southern
25:17
Baptist Church different from the IFB.
25:20
Why would you put up with something like that for so long?
25:24
What made you stay I guess would be the question.
25:28
Such a good question. Thank you for asking this.
25:30
Because I think there are so many women out there right now
25:35
under the sound of our voice that are living in an abusive
25:39
situation with secret abuse, secret domestic and violence,
25:44
secret emotional abuse. And the number one thing that I
25:50
talked to and that I experienced with an abusive situation is
25:55
gaslighting. Gaslighting is causing a victim
25:59
to question their perception or their memories.
26:03
OK. And a lot of times this is what
26:05
abusers do. They do it to children when they
26:07
molest them. They do it to women.
26:09
This has happened to men that are under a narcissistic leader
26:13
or narcissistic abuser is that they gaslight the victim into
26:18
thinking that either it's their fault or it's not that bad and
26:23
there's shame shrouded in the situation.
26:26
There is the fear often inflicted on them that if they
26:30
leave it's going to be worse. And for me personally, having
26:34
grown up in this holiness culture, it took me a while to
26:38
shed the thinking of a I'm hurting the cause of Christ.
26:43
If I tell this story right? Because so many people looked up
26:47
to my husband. We had over 300 people saved in
26:51
our evangelistic ministries the first year.
26:54
So what would that do to those people?
26:56
And I've talked to other trauma victims that have told me women
26:59
who are being choked out by their husband and they lose
27:01
consciousness and they say, and the last thing I thought was no
27:04
one can find out because it will hurt the cause of Christ.
27:06
Let me tell you something, pain all, all pain originates in sin.
27:13
Pain is not from God. God designed a perfect world,
27:16
right? So all of these things that we
27:19
feel that our pain originated from an evil dark place and we
27:25
are not hurting the cause of Christ.
27:27
The Bible says to mark them that offend you.
27:30
But often times we're brainwashed and gaslighted into
27:33
thinking that if we hold the leader accountable, we are
27:37
hurting the cause of Christ #2 often it does not feel safe to
27:42
leave. And that goes back to the
27:44
nervous system. Where have you ever seen the
27:48
movie The Village? I feel like it's the most
27:50
accurate depiction of religious trauma.
27:52
Have you seen that movie? I haven't, but I think Brett
27:55
has, yeah. So it's this, this village of
27:58
people and there's a, a, an invisible villain that they are
28:02
told called, they're called those we don't speak of.
28:05
And everybody is trapped in this village and they're terrified.
28:08
And, and it's like in, in the old timey, you know, days, all
28:11
the girls are wearing big skirts and, and the guys are in
28:14
colonial days, they're farming the land.
28:16
And these, those we don't speak of are terrorizing them and they
28:20
have to hide inside the houses and the children are afraid and
28:23
the alarm sounds. Well, at the end of the movie
28:26
you find out that they don't exist, that they were created by
28:30
the leaders in the village to keep everybody controlled and in
28:35
this state of fear so that they wouldn't question.
28:38
And at the very end of the movie, they want 1 character
28:42
makes it to the edge of the woods and they step out and
28:44
there are cars and seven elevens and they're living in this day
28:49
and age. And that reminds me so much of
28:51
people who don't leave these environments because they simply
28:55
don't know that they can. They're in this fight or flight
28:58
freeze state. And it takes a while for your
29:02
nervous system to go, OK, I'm going to think cognitively and
29:07
I'm going to make this decision because when you're in trauma,
29:10
everything here in the prefrontal cortex shuts down.
29:15
Everything goes to the extremities.
29:17
It goes to your, your, your adrenaline, your cortisol levels
29:22
start rising, your hippocampus, your hypothalamus and your
29:26
amygdala, that which is called your limbic system, your fight
29:29
or flight system, it all goes into OverDrive and you're
29:31
running like you're being chased by a bull of ready to leap over
29:36
an electric fence. And none of the cognitive things
29:38
that are our decision makers, our ability to think and reason
29:42
and problem solve, none of this is working.
29:44
So when a woman is constantly stuck in that trauma response,
29:48
it's difficult to sort out from reality what's really happening
29:53
versus the adrenaline rushes. That's great as you we walked
29:58
into our IFB influence. So I was born and raised in it.
30:01
You were born and raised in it. Brett was brought into it
30:06
through a bus ministry I. Was I was a bus kid?
30:09
Yeah, nice. And my wife was the bus kid.
30:11
Oh yeah, bus ministry for years. Right.
30:15
Your dad was a prominent speaker.
30:18
He came to champion all the time.
30:19
I remember when he would come. I think I bought every one of
30:22
his books that he had out. I've got a box of IFP books in
30:26
my second office over here. I'm sure I've got seven or eight
30:30
of his revival books and he had one that was spiral bound.
30:34
I remember that one specifically.
30:38
And so you, you've talked about your IFB influence and how this
30:41
world shaped you. I think you said you went to
30:44
like 7 different Bible colleges, 5 different Bible colleges
30:47
school. Of the Bibles.
30:49
And so through all of this and through all of the the IFB world
30:55
and how it shaped, you share a little bit about the struggles
30:59
that you went through, not just in your life, but as others may
31:03
have observed it. And on page the very end of the
31:05
book, near the end, you said something like this.
31:08
It said, it's not my job to convict the hearts, fix the
31:11
people or hold the world together.
31:13
It's his. And I think that was one of the
31:15
most profound statements in the entire book that I read, because
31:19
often times we feel like the weight of the world is on me.
31:22
I've got to fix it. I've got to fix my husband, I've
31:25
got to fix my wife. I've got to fix the church.
31:27
I've got to fix the world. I've got to go reach the World.
31:29
If I don't do it right, if is there not a 'cause if I don't do
31:33
it, no one's going to do it. And we just sort of pull
31:36
ourselves up by our bootstraps and just say I've got to go take
31:39
this world by by force. When in reality, God says he's
31:43
the author of everything, we're just to preach and allow him to
31:47
take the have the response up to him.
31:51
And so how do you justify this with your upbringing?
31:54
And then we'll talk through some specific teachings here in just
31:57
a moment. Yes, I'm really glad you're
31:59
asking this question because the independent fundamental Baptist
32:03
movement is very misunderstood and I hear a lot of people
32:08
talking out there on podcasts and deconstructing and attacking
32:10
the IFB, right. But the independent fundamental
32:13
Baptist movement was started as a counter revolution to the drug
32:19
and sex culture of the 70s. So, so these guys who came out
32:23
of that and were affected by addiction and and were long
32:26
haired hippies on per SE, they saw the destruction of that and
32:30
it actually began with good intentions.
32:33
You know, the Bill Gother government rose up and people
32:36
started homeschooling, people started sheltering their kids.
32:39
And the big mantra or subtitle of all of this holiness culture
32:44
was we're protecting our families.
32:47
And it was, it started as a good thing, But there was 1 teeny
32:52
tiny problem with with the way that it began is that there was
32:55
just no accountability. And even good people need
33:00
accountability. And these little tiny
33:04
personality cults started developing and rising up.
33:08
And this lack of accountability began to attract predators to
33:13
the independent Baptist movement because it was independent and
33:16
there wasn't anyone patrolling and keeping things within the
33:19
parameters. Power always corrupts.
33:23
You know, Have you ever seen that show Yellow Jackets?
33:25
It's based on a true story. The soccer team crashes in the
33:28
mountains, These girls, this girls soccer team, and they're
33:32
out in the wilderness and they start losing their minds and
33:35
hallucinating and, and making up spiritual beings in the woods.
33:38
They start eating each other. Their coach is hiding out in The
33:41
Cave terrified of these like middle school girls.
33:44
And that's that's kind of how the high structure religious
33:47
culture, it's attractive to people who have grown up with
33:52
all their decisions being made for them.
33:55
We see these generations repeating in the Mormons, in the
33:58
IFB, in these high control environments, these kids that
34:02
don't know how to make decisions because their pastor and their
34:05
dad have always told them what to do.
34:07
This culture also attracts dysfunctional people like
34:11
addicts and alcohol, Alcoholics or those who are experiencing a
34:15
huge lack of control, like having an affair or their, their
34:18
life is spinning out. They're attracted to this high
34:21
control environment. And these and also also a lot of
34:26
well meaning people meander meander into these IFB churches
34:30
on the corner and and the pastor says that the King James Bible
34:34
is the only Bible and they go, cool, let's go buy a Bible and
34:37
they get kind of sucked in to this culture.
34:39
And so the difference between, you know, there are a lot of
34:44
people that have convictions that are that choose to live to
34:49
a higher standard. You know, if you want to wear a
34:50
skirt, more power to you. It's not necessarily the
34:54
standards that cause the problems because we all have our
34:57
own standards. The difference between a cult
35:00
mindset in a church at a healthy church is that there's this
35:05
thought of we are the only ones with the truth and it's this US
35:09
against them mentality. And don't go to any other
35:13
churches or read any other Bibles and people go to church
35:18
seeking a sense of belonging, seeking a sense of community.
35:23
But and that's healthy. You know, we need that, that
35:26
sense of belonging, that herd mentality.
35:28
Nobody wants to be outside the herd.
35:30
You know, we all want to be inside it.
35:32
But when it becomes we are the only ones follow the rules or
35:37
you'll be cast out of the herd. It almost becomes becomes a form
35:42
of enmeshment with this new found family or church and your
35:47
whole sense of belonging and identity becomes wrapped up in
35:51
this high control, high structure environment.
35:54
And we saw this with Hitler in the third right.
35:56
We had these 2030 year old men with children themselves that
36:00
are shooting these Jewish children and burning their
36:03
bodies because they want to be part of this sense of belonging
36:06
of the third right. And we killed 6,000,000 Jews
36:09
because of it. And so these predators are
36:12
attracted to the high control groups because they know that
36:15
people will follow blindly because they don't want to be
36:18
rejected. And that's where we see people
36:21
being exploited financially, children being molested.
36:25
There's just no accountability. And when there's no
36:27
accountability, there's liability.
36:30
And I hear people say, well, we have deacons.
36:33
Deacons are not accountability. There are often times family
36:36
members or or good old boys or friends and their loyalty is to
36:40
the pastor, to their sense of belonging.
36:42
And that's why having a denomination.
36:45
Now denominations aren't perfect either.
36:46
We can have a whole podcast on that.
36:49
But but denominations, at least there is a place if the pastor's
36:54
going crazy or if the crap pastor is off the rails, a
36:58
member of the church can pick up the phone and call the
37:01
denomination and suits will show up and they can, you know, strip
37:05
them of their credentials or they can disfellowship the
37:08
church or they can call the authorities.
37:10
Now, let me be clear, if it's, if it's minor is in danger, you
37:13
go straight to the authorities. You don't have to go to a
37:15
denomination, but it's all about accountability.
37:19
Yeah, I love that. And one of the things, as we've
37:23
done the podcast now for six years, we've had a host of yes,
37:27
before my time, but when John was so low to when me and John
37:30
was on here to now me and Brett. And our number two episode of
37:35
all time is IFB Modesty versus Biblical Modesty with Amy
37:40
Miller. Amy is a great friend of the
37:43
podcast and she comes on, she came on and just talked through,
37:47
discussed what that looked like. And, and it's #2 our number one
37:51
episode's about the King James only model.
37:54
And, and we spent six or eight different weeks talking through
37:57
that. But it still blows my mind that
38:00
that is the number 2 episode is modesty and the modesty culture.
38:05
Yes. And so I want to sort of
38:08
piggyback off of that and ask the question, are there specific
38:12
teachings or cultural expectations in your mind that
38:16
you know, could be wise, not having a voice standards, purity
38:19
culture that you think that contribute to the confusion, the
38:23
hurt, the abuse that happens in your own world or in the broader
38:27
scheme of the whole thing? What, what would you think would
38:30
be number one? Number two, what are what are
38:33
your thoughts on that? Well, I'll just enter into the
38:36
modesty conversation because there's an entire chapter in my
38:39
book where I talk about modesty. And I think one of the hardest
38:43
things for me to overcome coming out of the holiness culture and
38:46
trying to adjust suddenly to the real world was this sense of
38:53
either it's a double sided ditch.
38:56
Modesty in the holiness culture presents that.
38:58
It's all up to me or it's it's so for example, there's pride
39:04
and there's shame. There's just so much shame for a
39:07
woman that her body is going to cause men to stumble.
39:11
And you live with this shrouded shame that if I have a skirt
39:17
that is showing my left ankle, I could derail a man's entire
39:21
destiny and family because he lusts after me.
39:25
Because the thinking is that verse, if a man looks at a woman
39:28
and lusts after her, she's already done it.
39:29
He's already committed adultery and this like, overemphasis on
39:33
sexualization. So you go through life with this
39:36
shrouded shame of I am a home wrecker if my skirt is too
39:41
tight, too short, too sheer, what have you.
39:44
On the other side, these women from the holiness culture
39:47
developed this sense of pride that I can bring a man to my
39:52
knees with my sexual power. Everybody is lusting after me
39:58
and I think the truth. Is that not every man is
40:04
powerless and taken out by the appearance of a woman and that
40:10
men are powerful over their own purity and their own thoughts
40:14
and their own actions. And so you're, you're given this
40:17
double sided whammy where you're both filled with shame and
40:20
filled with pride. And the issue with the holiness
40:23
culture, whether you're talking about, you know, modesty and
40:25
what I learned about modesty is that it's just not about me at
40:28
all. Modesty is just a sense of
40:31
humility that God is in control and that I am here for God and
40:37
that I am my husband's purity is up to him and other men's purity
40:41
is up to them. And I'm just walking with God in
40:43
a spirit of humility for myself, no matter what I'm wearing.
40:47
But the issue with the holiness culture is that it becomes the
40:51
superiority culture. You know, we have this thought
40:55
that because we have higher standards or we, we're wearing
40:58
some in the, in the Nazarene and in the Pentecostal, they cover
41:02
their head, you know, and they're just have this sense of
41:04
superior that we're better than others because we have these
41:07
standards. But really, when you cross that
41:11
line, you start thinking we're the only ones that go to heaven.
41:15
We're the only ones reading the true Bible.
41:18
We don't associate with those who are lost or they might rub
41:21
off on us. We are chosen.
41:23
We're better than them. And then again, that goes back
41:26
to that Hitler thinking, that Aryan race thinking.
41:29
And, and the difference between, you know, we have all these
41:31
churches where they have this exciting, contagious culture.
41:35
That's OK to have exciting culture and be proud of your
41:39
church. You know Walt Disney and Hitler
41:43
were right around the same time. Both of them created humongous
41:48
cultures that are legendary and go down in history.
41:52
Disney created this family vacation happiest place on
41:55
earth. Hitler created family gas
41:58
chambers in the most superior place on earth.
42:01
So that's the difference is you can be proud, you can be
42:04
excited, you can have standards, you can have convictions.
42:07
A lot of times our convictions are situational.
42:10
You know, if you're in the Middle East, you're going to
42:12
cover your face. That's just the Middle Eastern
42:14
culture you've been an addict to your entire life.
42:17
You're not going to want to be around alcohol.
42:19
You're going to be happy that you're in a in a situation where
42:22
alcohol is wrong. A lot of times we just go to
42:26
this place of superiority and say I'm better than you.
42:29
So I don't have a problem with the holiness culture.
42:31
I have a problem with the superior superiority culture and
42:34
the the the narcissistic thinking that it perpetuates.
42:41
Yeah, the, the not having any accountability, it's such a
42:46
difficult thing. And it's so it's so easy to be
42:49
in that, right. It's so easy to be as a pastor,
42:53
not you're, you're in charge of everything.
42:55
You're the in essence, you're that I told someone just the
42:58
other day, I'm basically the CEO of the church.
43:00
Like I'm, I'm making all the financial I'm I'm leading, I'm
43:03
I'm vision casting, I'm doing everything.
43:06
I don't have to submit myself in that sense.
43:08
It's wisdom that submit yourselves and put yourself in
43:12
that accountability of good counsel.
43:15
But you don't have to like you can run the church and do these
43:19
things without any accountability.
43:21
And that wisdom steps in and, and there are times where it's
43:24
difficult because, you know, I probably, if I ask the question
43:28
and I do it once or twice a year, what am I doing right,
43:32
wrong? Have you heard anything?
43:33
How there are some things that I know I've probably done some
43:36
wrong or said something to somebody and that's going to get
43:38
back to me and they're going to bring it up.
43:39
And I'm, I'm on purpose submitting myself to make sure,
43:43
you know that we have that open line of communication and.
43:46
There's no organization or person that's going to be
43:48
perfect, But when you look at systemic, repeated patterns of
43:53
abuse and the silencing of the victim's voice, you know that
43:57
there is an issue with this specific group of people when
44:01
hundreds and thousands of abuse cases are coming forward.
44:04
We're not talking about the disagreement of the church Pew
44:08
colors here. We're not talking about a lazy
44:10
staff member that you fired. We're talking about the systemic
44:14
abuse and it has to be addressed and spoken out about.
44:18
So let's go into the subject of like our identity and healing
44:22
and trying to heal from this. You know, you, you, you talk
44:25
about identity being shaped by wounds.
44:29
How does someone move from being defined by what happened to them
44:35
to being anchored in something stronger?
44:37
You, you say on page 38 that you cannot heal in the same
44:41
environment that made you sick. What?
44:43
Would you say to them, so like we talked about before, when a
44:48
victim is stuck in that fight or flight, when they are in trauma,
44:52
it's impossible to heal. So the first thing you have to
44:55
do is you have to get to a safe place, you know, whether that
45:00
means leaving the abuser or getting a safe friend on board,
45:05
getting a safe person that you can tell your story to.
45:09
And here's where I'm gonna get a little nerdy on you guys.
45:12
There's something called neuroplasticity in the brain.
45:16
OK? So when your limbic system is
45:18
going crazy and your nervous system is in fight or flight, it
45:21
will stay that way until your trauma is processed.
45:25
That's why we see people come out of trauma and, and like
45:28
build these giant businesses and like have this hyper vigilance
45:32
and they're going 1,000,000 miles an hour.
45:33
A lot of times out of the performance culture, you see
45:35
people just flip their pain right over into something else
45:39
and, and it has to be addressed. So the best way to begin healing
45:43
from trauma is to tell your story to a safe person and
45:48
empathetic listener. So you guys are doing that for
45:51
me right now. You're helping my my brain heal
45:54
by listening to my story. And it's actually a neurological
45:58
thing. So your amygdala, which is this
46:01
little almond shaped thing in the middle of your brain, it is
46:04
the Control Center for your fight or flight.
46:07
So after trauma, the amygdala can almost be like
46:10
hypersensitive and stay in that state.
46:13
It's like if you were to burn toast, the amygdala is the fire
46:16
alarm. There's smoke coming up.
46:18
So the amygdala's like there's a fire, there's a fire.
46:20
No, we're just burning the toast.
46:21
But the amygdala stays stuck in this just loop of trauma.
46:25
And the trauma feels present, like it's happening now, not
46:29
like it happened. So when you tell your story to
46:32
an empathetic, active listener with good eye contact, your
46:36
limbic system, your fight or flight starts to register.
46:39
I'm talking about something that happened, but it's not happening
46:43
now. And that's called Co regulation.
46:46
And that's when that prefrontal cortex, like I told you, starts
46:50
to come back online. You start to organize memories,
46:53
think clearly, regulate your emotions, and you can start to
46:56
explain what happened coherently.
46:59
That shame starts to lose its power.
47:02
It comes, the story comes out of secret, isolation, secrecy and
47:05
isolation. So a safe person responds with
47:08
belief and compassion. There's no judgement.
47:11
They are emotionally present. And your brain literally begins
47:16
to rewire itself and to hear, to heal.
47:19
And here's what's super, super cool.
47:21
Have you guys ever met somebody? And within 30 seconds you're
47:25
like, I don't trust this person, something about him I don't like
47:30
or I don't trust or have you ever seen something out of the
47:32
corner of your eye and it made you jump?
47:34
You know, OK, your amygdala is attached to your thalamus, which
47:39
is attached to your optic nerve, which is attached to your
47:42
retina. So literally you are able to
47:46
look into somebody's eyes that is safe and empathetic and it
47:50
tells your brain that you are OK.
47:53
And it rewires your brain. So the number one thing you can
47:56
do to begin healing from from trauma is tell your story to a
47:59
safe person and neuroplasticity begins to occur.
48:03
Brett, before you ask the next one, I want to interject just
48:06
one thing. So we just finished a series and
48:10
I have random pastors in other counties that have stopped me
48:13
and said thank you for doing this series, that we did series
48:16
on Jim Jones and and when we were walking through that, one
48:22
of the things that came up was Jim Jones's ability to even
48:27
contort his face or empathize with people that were in front
48:31
of him. Like if someone was going
48:32
through pain, he would physically start looking like he
48:35
was in pain to associate that with them.
48:38
He. Created a false sense of safety.
48:40
Exactly. That's what people are looking
48:42
for. Yeah, to build that trust, to
48:45
allow their mind to be able to do that.
48:47
So I thought when you said all that in your psycho jumble that
48:52
I don't even understand the words that you were saying, it
48:56
reminded me of that situation that people would often
48:59
survivors have said. I felt like the pain I was going
49:03
through, he was going through it in that same moment because how
49:07
he was able to to adjust his body.
49:09
And in my sort of thirst for healing and and knowledge, I
49:12
went on a huge study of cults and cult leaders and how they
49:19
were able to to just have this hour over people.
49:21
I even visited the bombing side of David Koresh in Waco, TX.
49:26
Had an incredible experience. It's in my book if you want to
49:29
read it. But yeah, it's fascinating and
49:31
how these cult leaders create a sense of belonging and safety
49:35
that's irresistible to the point where these men will even give
49:38
them their daughters and wives. It's it's very powerful thing.
49:41
Yeah, awesome. So we talked, you talked about
49:46
fight or flight, getting out of that environment, finding
49:49
somebody safe to tell your story to.
49:52
And the next question, a follow up question that is how do we go
49:56
from that to being anchored in something stronger and what does
50:00
that look like in everyday life? Yeah, you're not going to like
50:04
the answer. Everybody asks how do I heal?
50:08
And my answer is you have to expose the wound.
50:11
You know, if you come to a doctor and you're bleeding out
50:14
under your shirt and you never lift the shirt and show the
50:16
doctor the wound, how is he going to help you heal it?
50:20
So often we hide our weaknesses, we hide our traumas, the secret
50:24
things. And God says in my, in your
50:27
weakness, he is made strong. So we need to expose our
50:32
weakness, expose the wound so that God can turn it into a
50:36
scar. And we have to be brave enough
50:39
to begin talking about our pain. We have to normalize going
50:44
toward the pain. And I just did a women's
50:46
conference called Transform Conference about we did
50:50
Cinderella and I, I, it wasn't a popular message.
50:53
I said we all want our glass slipper moment.
50:56
We want the fairy godmother to show up and wave her wand and
51:00
heal us and we live happily ever after and get everything we
51:03
want, but we don't want to live in the ashes.
51:05
Cinderella. She was called Cinderella
51:07
because she lived in the ashes and she was, she lost her
51:10
parents. She was forced to serve her
51:12
stepsisters and her evil stepmother, you know, and it
51:15
that was where her character was formed.
51:17
Your character and your strength is being formed in the ashes of
51:22
your trauma. And so often we try to ignore it
51:25
or bury it. But if you don't dig up the
51:27
past, it's not going to stay buried.
51:29
It's like, I think those alligators we talked about, it's
51:31
lurking down there and there's going to be bubbles coming up.
51:34
So therapy isn't about opening wounds for the sake of suffering
51:39
or the victim mentality. It's about finally allowing your
51:44
brain and your body to finish that story that was interrupted
51:49
by fear. And as Christians, we have the
51:52
ability to let God help us right the end of the story and and
51:55
those alligators can can move on.
51:57
So grieving what's trapped energy in your nervous system,
52:01
grieving it, staring at the grief is how you let it go.
52:04
And Jesus showed us that it's OK to grieve in the garden.
52:07
He grieved before the cross. He said, man, I want my friends
52:10
to stay with me. I'm sweating blood, I have
52:12
anxiety. Lord, take this cup from me.
52:14
He even angrily said, Father, why have you forsaken me?
52:18
Jesus went through all the clinical stages of of grief,
52:21
which I talk about in my book, Grief is Good.
52:23
And I think so often we try to just avoid those bad feelings.
52:27
But when we go toward the wound, go toward the grief, that's when
52:30
healing starts. Yeah, that's great.
52:33
Our last question and we'll let you talk on this is as long as
52:36
you want or give any thoughts or final closing things is for
52:40
someone who's listening today who just feels stuck.
52:43
I'm I'm I'm stuck in an abusive relationship right?
52:45
You when you have that 2 year old and two week old, there's no
52:49
way out. I can heal this person that's in
52:51
front of me. I can help him.
52:53
If I leave, he's going to spiral even in the more.
52:56
So I'm the only anchor that he's got, right?
52:58
All of a sudden we feel like we're the ones that can fix it.
53:00
And if I leave, then I'll be the one that's blamed for him to go
53:03
even further. Yes, I had all those thoughts.
53:07
Yeah, right. That that's what we think,
53:09
that's what we go through are going for the painful
53:12
experiences. What would be the the truth or
53:14
the thing that you would give them, the encouraging word that
53:18
you can give them as they're in that moment?
53:21
The one thing that you would say to that person, you back, I
53:25
don't know how many every years. That was 10 years ago or so.
53:28
What would be the one thing that you would say to that person if
53:30
you could go back in time? That's a great question.
53:34
If you are stuck in domestic violence, you are stuck in
53:38
emotional abuse. You are stuck in a church where
53:41
you're your brother in law's the pastor and your mom and dad have
53:44
casserole dinner every Sunday and you've realized this is not
53:47
healthy. Whatever it is and anything in
53:51
between, I want you to know that if you don't like your life, you
53:55
are allowed to change it. And you can't change the facts
54:01
of your story. You can't change the abuse
54:04
you've been through. You cannot change the wound, but
54:08
you can change what happens next.
54:10
And healing is not pretending it's not happening or pretending
54:14
it didn't happen. It's refusing to allow trauma to
54:18
control the narrative. You are in control of your life.
54:22
Unless you are literally bound and gagged in a, in a prison
54:27
cell, you have the power to walk out and you will be surprised
54:32
how many people will believe you and support you.
54:37
I talk about, I've talked a lot about Germany.
54:38
I'm just so fascinated with, with the Holocaust and, and the
54:42
victims of the, of how they went through so much pain and
54:45
suffering. And I studied the little patch
54:49
of mountains between Germany and Switzerland.
54:53
And a lot of times the border control there was there was
54:56
compassionate Germans that would help the Jews get across the
54:59
border to Switzerland, Switzerland to safety.
55:02
But in my book, I talk about the whole passage and how there is a
55:06
place in between your abusive situation and safety and freedom
55:12
that is very, very lonely and it's very difficult to go
55:16
through. Those Jews had to go through a
55:18
brutal wilderness. It was cold, there was snow.
55:22
They were starving. There was predators.
55:24
There was long, long miles to journey across the border to
55:28
Switzerland. But once they got there, they
55:31
were. We're greeted with love and and
55:33
healing and support and food and and a warm fire.
55:37
But often times people are not willing to cross that lonely,
55:42
isolating wilderness to freedom. Or they quit and turn back and
55:47
say, you know, at least my high control environment felt like
55:51
family, felt like belonging. So I just want you to know that
55:55
there is going to be a period of loneliness and struggle and
55:58
difficulty, but you can do it. And there are people on the
56:02
other side waiting to believe you, waiting to support you.
56:06
And when you let God help you rewrite the story, it doesn't
56:11
just end in healing, it ends in redemption.
56:14
And when Jesus is lifted up, he draws all other people to him.
56:18
So when you lift up your story of pain, you lift up your story
56:20
of trauma. You say, I was then Jesus, now I
56:25
fill in the blanks. That's as easy as it is to tell
56:28
your story. Then God is going to draw other
56:30
victims comes to him, and they're going to realize that
56:33
God is not the one inflicting the pain, but God is the one who
56:36
wants to help you rewrite the story.
56:38
And that's what I learned I. Want you Brett, any thoughts
56:41
from you? No, that's great.
56:43
I've had a wonderful time talking to you about your book.
56:47
I can't wait to read it. Thank you so much.
56:49
Thank you guys for having me. It was a just a pleasure to be
56:53
here today. Yeah.
56:54
Thank you, Bridget, for coming on.
56:56
It's great to talk through that. And if you're one out there
56:59
that's struggling or have struggled with any of these
57:01
things we've talked about, feel free to reach out to us.
57:03
I know all of our social medias are out there.
57:06
My phone number's out there in like 17 different places.
57:09
So you're more than willing to reach out to me, call me,
57:12
message us, and we would love to talk through and hear your story
57:15
and find out how we can help you.
57:17
Thank you again, Bridget, for coming on.
57:19
We hope this is a blessing to our listeners.
57:22
And until next time, to God be the glory.
57:25
Great things he has done. A new name found that good grace
57:31
found that healing, and the tears fell down my face when I
57:36
found my beginning. It has no ending.
57:37
I found that second chance, found my best friend, found my
57:39
forgiveness, found my happiness. I've been singing ever since I
57:42
found my freedom. Thanks for listening to the Four
57:59
Freedom Podcast. If you enjoyed our content, do
58:03
us a favor by liking, subscribing, or sharing our
58:06
podcast on whichever podcast platform you use.
58:10
Be sure to join us next time for The Four Freedom Podcast.