Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Can THIS Plant Extract Activate GLP-1 Like Ozempic? (Sarah Kennedy) | Ep 427

Transcript

Can THIS Plant Extract Activate GLP-1 Like Ozempic? (Sarah Kennedy) | Ep 427 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you've been struggling with uncontrollable hunger, whether you're at maintenance or a calorie deficit to lose weight or body fat, but your appetite keeps winning, maybe you've looked into GLP1 drugs like Logovi or Mandaro, and for some people, they're a great fit.
• 0:15
  Philip Pape: But maybe you're curious about whether there's another way to work with your body's own appetite signals without a prescription.
• 0:22
  Philip Pape: This episode is for you.
• 0:23
  Philip Pape: Today we're breaking down how your gut controls hunger at the hormonal level, what happens when you stimulate GLP1 naturally versus pharmaceutically, and how one particular plant extract is showing results in clinical trials when it comes to meaningful appetite control.
• 0:40
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weight, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering, and efficiency.
• 0:55
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, certified nutrition coach Philip Pape, and today we're going to continue our series on appetite with a conversation about something that most people don't realize that real physiological hunger is closely related to specific hormones, and there are more ways to address it than you might think.
• 1:12
  Philip Pape: My guest is Sarah Kennedy, the founder and CEO of CaloCurb, who is sponsoring our appetite series.
• 1:19
  Philip Pape: And Sarah is a veterinarian by training with over 20 years in animal and human nutrition, an MIT slone fellow, and she led the development of a natural appetite compound backed by over 30 million in research and 15 years of clinical study.
• 1:32
  Philip Pape: We're going to get into details behind that in a bit.
• 1:34
  Philip Pape: Her product works by stimulating your body's own GLP1 production through bitter receptors in your gut.
• 1:41
  Philip Pape: These are the same hormones targeted by weight loss drugs, but through a completely different mechanism.
• 1:46
  Philip Pape: Today you're going to learn why hunger is a biological signal that you can actually influence how bitter compounds trigger a powerful hormonal cascade that reduces appetite and how to think about the full landscape of appetite tools from lifestyle strategies to natural supplements to pharmaceuticals so you can make an informed decision about what fits your situation.
• 2:07
  Philip Pape: Sarah, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
• 2:11
  Sarah Kennedy: Thanks, Renew.
• 2:12
  Sarah Kennedy: It's great to be here.
• 2:13
  Philip Pape: And I'd love to jump straight into the science just to set the stage for my audience of, you know, what is happening in the gut when someone is really hungry or just hungry in general.
• 2:24
  Philip Pape: And then I want to connect that to why bitter things, why compounds related to hops and specifically can connect to that and then affect our appetite.
• 2:33
  Philip Pape: And then we can get into the research as well.
• 2:35
  Sarah Kennedy: Sure.
• 2:35
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, it is, as I said, I loved your introduction because there are so many things that affect us.
• 2:41
  Sarah Kennedy: And, you know, Calicobe, like many other things, is a tool in the toolkit for you.
• 2:46
  Sarah Kennedy: So hunger, what most people don't realize is our appetite control center is in our hind brain.
• 2:54
  Sarah Kennedy: So this is our primitive primal hindbrain, really important through evolution, because this is what made us get out of the caves and go and hunt.
• 3:05
  Sarah Kennedy: So I love this fact.
• 3:07
  Sarah Kennedy: If you reduce your calories by 25%, your hunger will double over four months.
• 3:15
  Sarah Kennedy: And as I said, that is the way to get us out of the caves and to go and hunt something.
• 3:20
  Sarah Kennedy: Because we'd all be lying in our caves going, oh, you know what, it's raining, I'm not going out.
• 3:24
  Sarah Kennedy: So this was driving us forward.
• 3:26
  Sarah Kennedy: So this is why 99% of diets fail.
• 3:30
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, you're really good for a week, maybe two weeks, maybe more, but that primal urge to eat, which is driven by griolin.
• 3:39
  Sarah Kennedy: So grielin is a hormone we call it your hunger hormone.
• 3:42
  Sarah Kennedy: And then when you eat, you know, the grielin goes down.
• 3:46
  Sarah Kennedy: And what most people don't realize is 45 minutes later, when you've eaten, um it your digestion goes into your um upper digestive tract, into your diet out of your stomach, and that's when it signals these receptors to release appetite-suppressing hormones.
• 4:05
  Sarah Kennedy: And there is more than one, uh, in fact, I think, well, there's a lot more, but the ones we know are CCK, which is cholycystokinin, which is a very powerful but short-acting GLP1, so we all know that, GIP and PYY.
• 4:23
  Sarah Kennedy: And these all go to the brain and say, you know, you've eaten, it's okay, you're full.
• 4:28
  Sarah Kennedy: But of course, what happens in a lot of well, all of us really, is we actually eat on the run.
• 4:34
  Sarah Kennedy: How many of us eat on the run?
• 4:36
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh, you know, we eat too fast because that takes 45, at least 45 minutes to an hour to signal your brain.
• 4:43
  Sarah Kennedy: So you eat on the run, you're throwing food down, and of course you eat more, and suddenly you go, oh, I'm full, right?
• 4:50
  Sarah Kennedy: So you remember how your mother used to say, chew 10 times, you know.
• 4:55
  Sarah Kennedy: So those are those things.
• 4:57
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh so you know, and then high fiber foods will give you more of those signals as well.
• 5:03
  Sarah Kennedy: So we don't sit down and eat that much.
• 5:06
  Sarah Kennedy: I look, I'm just as bad as anyone else, always grabbing something sitting at my desk.
• 5:11
  Sarah Kennedy: I'm not listening to my body.
• 5:12
  Sarah Kennedy: So your appetite is actually in your hindbrain.
• 5:16
  Sarah Kennedy: It drives you to go and get something to eat, which was important in evolution, but it is a bit of a liability for us now, uh, because we're so, well, in modern-day developed worlds, we're surrounded by food.
• 5:30
  Philip Pape: We are indeed surrounded by lots of calorie-dense foods.
• 5:33
  Philip Pape: And a lot of the stuff you just mentioned, if the listeners go check out two episodes ago, we got into some of those hormones.
• 5:40
  Philip Pape: But I love how Sarah, how you brought up the evolutionary reason for this and the fact that when we are trying to diet, our body's essentially pushing back, saying, wait a minute, something is lacking.
• 5:52
  Philip Pape: Exactly.
• 5:54
  Philip Pape: Which unfortunately, many of us, you know, we've gained the weight over several decades, most likely, especially around the holidays, right?
• 6:00
  Philip Pape: We gain the weight, and it's like all of a sudden we look at ourselves and we're like, wait a minute, I need to do something about it.
• 6:05
  Philip Pape: And this is where the challenge becomes, okay, crash diets can set you back.
• 6:10
  Philip Pape: Also eating on the run, also just rushing and not being mindful about it, and then not having enough fiber.
• 6:15
  Philip Pape: And I know there's other things like protein that trigger these gut signals as well.
• 6:19
  Philip Pape: So once we understand that, we start to say, okay, there may be some tools we can put in place, which you've already alluded to, like, hey, maybe if we don't rush and we chew our food, potentially.
• 6:30
  Philip Pape: I want to connect that to bitter hops specifically, because I've mentioned to my audience like all the hacks, you know, drinking water before you eat, eating spicy foods, like beyond just the fundamentals.
• 6:41
  Philip Pape: And now that I've met you guys and invited you on the show and we did this appetite series, I looked a lot more into it and was pretty excited about how it works specifically with receptors in the gut.
• 6:52
  Philip Pape: So tell us about that.
• 6:53
  Philip Pape: Where does bitterness come in?
• 6:55
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, so um, I'll just go back to the start.
• 6:58
  Sarah Kennedy: So it was 2009, 2010, a group of very talented scientists in New Zealand.
• 7:04
  Sarah Kennedy: So just to give you a little background, all primary research in New Zealand is sponsored by the government.
• 7:11
  Sarah Kennedy: So this is so we get what we call blue sky research.
• 7:16
  Sarah Kennedy: So about 15 years ago, a group of talented scientists, but employed by the government had a hypothesis that they would find a plant-based extract that suppressed appetite.
• 7:28
  Sarah Kennedy: Now, why did they have that?
• 7:30
  Sarah Kennedy: They had that because of historical reasons.
• 7:32
  Sarah Kennedy: Historical reasons were in the um in the times of famine in the Scottish Highlands, Scottish people chewed very, very bitter berries, heath berries, to suppress their appetite.
• 7:44
  Sarah Kennedy: Also, interesting enough, in the Kalahari Desert, our tribesmen will chew very, very bitter cactus before they go hunting to suppress their appetite.
• 7:53
  Sarah Kennedy: That was in fact the origin of Hoodia.
• 7:56
  Sarah Kennedy: So they had this and a few other, and then there'd been some recent work on uh washing mouse stomachs with bitter substances to reduce appetite.
• 8:06
  Sarah Kennedy: So they had this hypothesis, they put into the government a grant called, it was called Foods for Appetite Control, and got $20 million back for a six-year program to look at this.
• 8:20
  Sarah Kennedy: Just some extraordinary work.
• 8:22
  Sarah Kennedy: So what they did was first of all, they took 300 biopsies, 300 human biopsies, to show that we actually have uh we actually have taste receptors in our stomach and guts.
• 8:37
  Sarah Kennedy: Now, no one had actually proven that before.
• 8:40
  Sarah Kennedy: And when these taste receptors are stimulated, they will release different hormones.
• 8:46
  Sarah Kennedy: So these little taste receptors sit in the L cells and they are our receptors.
• 8:51
  Sarah Kennedy: So they literally map from the stomach right down to the lower colon, these bitter taste receptors, and then could show what they released.
• 9:01
  Sarah Kennedy: Hilarious story getting these human biopsies because Dr.
• 9:05
  Sarah Kennedy: Edward Walker, the senior scientist, had to go and hang out in hospital for about two years and go and approach people and go, hey, because you actually needed someone with a normal physiology who was either having an inter a colonoscopy, or I always get it wrong, an interoscopy.
• 9:22
  Sarah Kennedy: And so finally they got these samples, but you know, hanging out in hospitals to get them, uh and showed them all.
• 9:29
  Sarah Kennedy: So once it showed that we do, they mapped them right down through the gastrointestinal tract.
• 9:34
  Sarah Kennedy: They then and what they expressed, they then tested over a thousand extracts, uh natural plant and some and some pharmaceutical ones to test what expressed what made these express when um when something was put on them.
• 9:53
  Sarah Kennedy: Not surprisingly, only two things did.
• 9:57
  Sarah Kennedy: One was a potato oxalate, which is fantastic, but it's poisonous, so you'd be thin and dead.
• 10:04
  Sarah Kennedy: But the other one was hops.
• 10:07
  Sarah Kennedy: And um, because they're plant and food research, they then tested another 50 varieties.
• 10:13
  Sarah Kennedy: Why I say not surprisingly, this is a secondary evolutionary mechanism to protect us.
• 10:21
  Sarah Kennedy: So if you ate something very, very bitter, you would spit it out.
• 10:27
  Sarah Kennedy: If it went to your stomach, you would probably vomit it up, or if it wasn't so much, it would encourage you to release ghrelin because that would say eat more and you will dissipate that potential toxin.
• 10:43
  Sarah Kennedy: But if it goes past the stomach into the upper duodenum or the upper intestinal tract, it's too late then.
• 10:51
  Sarah Kennedy: So what it does is it stimulates these bitter taste receptors to release these appetite-suppressing hormones to go to your brain to say, you're full.
• 11:02
  Sarah Kennedy: So stop eating, you're full.
• 11:04
  Sarah Kennedy: So basically, what they were trying to do is super stimulate these bitter taste receptors.
• 11:11
  Sarah Kennedy: So we're telling the brain, you're full.
• 11:13
  Sarah Kennedy: Only one was the the sort of what they called the eureka, and that was this hops.
• 11:23
  Sarah Kennedy: And then they found the specific hop, which was really the one that was the strongest and the best.
• 11:29
  Sarah Kennedy: Then they did a whole lot of things like dose dependency and so on, like that.
• 11:34
  Sarah Kennedy: So that was sort of the background, which I think everyone skips over, but so incredible to map this whole thing in our physiology and to explain why we had it.
• 11:45
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that is incredible.
• 11:46
  Philip Pape: I I do love understanding evolutionary biology and how the context because we're in a different environment today, as you mentioned before.
• 11:53
  Philip Pape: And if we can kind of leverage, take advantage of, in some cases, quote unquote hack, you know, our own bodies to our benefit, which in an artificial world, sometimes you have to do things that are a little different, you know, just to give yourself an advantage.
• 12:05
  Philip Pape: I wonder how how does so you said bitter and then the hops specifically, and that these super stimulate um the appetite or super stimulate appetite suppressant, I guess, right?
• 12:15
  Philip Pape: Where do other compounds fit relative to this?
• 12:18
  Philip Pape: And before we recorded, I mentioned things like capsicin and saffron, because there's other things people talk about for appetite suppressant.
• 12:24
  Philip Pape: Is there kind of a spectrum of how stimulant stimulating they are?
• 12:29
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, um, so what I will say is some of them will stimulate.
• 12:33
  Sarah Kennedy: It's more likely to be in the stomach, um, and that's when you'll get the ghrelin.
• 12:39
  Sarah Kennedy: So with our beta hops, we deliver them to the upper duodenum.
• 12:44
  Sarah Kennedy: So they're delayed release capsules, and they go down to the upper duodenum where they release, and that's where we get this super stimulation.
• 12:53
  Sarah Kennedy: If they released in the stomach, we'd be more likely to get ghrelin.
• 12:57
  Sarah Kennedy: The other thing is a lot of things will say they stimulate GLP1, and yes, they will, but unless you stimulate GLP1 and the other appetite-suppressing hormones over 400%, you will not get a behavioral change.
• 13:15
  Sarah Kennedy: You might get a drop in blood glucose, but you will not get a behavioral change.
• 13:20
  Sarah Kennedy: We stimulate GLP1 and or CCK and GLP1 at 600%, and that's why.
• 13:28
  Sarah Kennedy: So, going on with the story, they then knew that they could get this, they could stimulate these in the lab, but then they took it into a human clinical trial, so the first human clinical trial.
• 13:41
  Sarah Kennedy: And uh it was 20 males, which doesn't sound a lot, but it is what you needed for this clinical, and they cannulated, so they had blood coming out of these people, I think it was like every 20 minutes.
• 13:54
  Sarah Kennedy: So it was a very expensive trial, and they cannulated them and they gave them uh calicurb, it was in those days, it wasn't called calicurb, it was um they gave them the capsule, uh, an hour before an ad libutin or an eat till you full lunch and an eat till your full dinner.
• 14:14
  Sarah Kennedy: Sorry, eat till full lunch and eat and snack.
• 14:16
  Sarah Kennedy: And then they measured the bloods over the next um, I think it was two hours, and they measured these hormones in them.
• 14:24
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, and what you see is this enormous, you see placebo, where when you eat, you will release your own GLP1, and then you see this huge spike where we have super stimulated it to get this 600% increase in GLP1, or twice what we call the postprandial amount or post-eating amount, and then we got an average of an 18% reduction in calorie intake.
• 14:51
  Sarah Kennedy: So the control group ate 18% less than the placebo group.
• 14:57
  Sarah Kennedy: Now, just as a comparison, a semiglutide, which is like an ozempic, will give you around about a 25% reduction.
• 15:06
  Sarah Kennedy: So you can see the difference 18% or 25%.
• 15:10
  Sarah Kennedy: So there is nothing, and I, you know, and I look all the time, but there is nothing in the world that super stimulates like americate, the active ingredient, all this hop stars at 600%.
• 15:25
  Philip Pape: Okay, so that answers a question I had about the threshold and the quantity of how these get stimulated.
• 15:30
  Philip Pape: Related to that compound, americete, what makes it unique?
• 15:34
  Philip Pape: Like, is it regarding what you can tell us?
• 15:36
  Philip Pape: Because I know it's patented, what makes it unique versus just me going and finding these hops in the wild and just crushing them up and eating them?
• 15:44
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, well, there's two, there's actually quite a few things with it.
• 15:47
  Sarah Kennedy: It is a specific variety, it is very high in what we'd call alpha and beta acids.
• 15:52
  Sarah Kennedy: So, but what most people don't realize, this is what we use to flavor beer.
• 15:56
  Sarah Kennedy: It was actually used as a preservative and to flavor beer.
• 15:59
  Sarah Kennedy: So very high in that.
• 16:01
  Sarah Kennedy: The other thing we do is we extract it using supercritical extraction, CO2 supercritical extraction.
• 16:08
  Sarah Kennedy: So we take all of the flavonoids, so um, all of the um phytoestrogens.
• 16:14
  Sarah Kennedy: So you're left with no phytoestrogens because we often get asked, well, what about the phytoestrogens?
• 16:19
  Sarah Kennedy: They're all gone.
• 16:20
  Sarah Kennedy: All you're left with is the elferin beta-off acid and a small amount of essential oil.
• 16:26
  Sarah Kennedy: So guys don't really mind that because if they get a burp, it'll be like a beer burp.
• 16:31
  Sarah Kennedy: And they're like, oh, I just had a beer.
• 16:33
  Sarah Kennedy: So um, so that's sort of it's how it's it is it is the variety, it is how it's extracted.
• 16:40
  Sarah Kennedy: The other thing is we put it in a delayed release lycat.
• 16:43
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, so a delayed release catch that does release in the upper duodenum or the upper gut.
• 16:50
  Sarah Kennedy: So it releases 45 minutes later.
• 16:53
  Sarah Kennedy: So you wouldn't want to crush it up, you wouldn't want to eat it.
• 16:57
  Sarah Kennedy: And um, yeah, so there is a number of things that go into it.
• 17:01
  Philip Pape: Right, because like you said, if it gets digested too early in the tract, it actually can release ghrelin, and then you actually get hungrier to try to uh dilute the the poison, the toxic.
• 17:10
  Philip Pape: I get it, cool.
• 17:10
  Philip Pape: That that's explaining a lot.
• 17:12
  Philip Pape: So what about, and by the way, I'm not a big fan of IPAs, I don't drink much at all anyway, because you know, alcohol's not great for you, but uh now they have a good use for those hops, it sounds like, uh, other than IPAs.
• 17:24
  Sarah Kennedy: We always get asked, well, if I drink beer, will I get the same?
• 17:27
  Sarah Kennedy: No, because when you put hops in beer, you actually isomerize them.
• 17:32
  Sarah Kennedy: So you actually cook them, so you've taken away that activity.
• 17:36
  Sarah Kennedy: So unfortunately, beer won't do it either.
• 17:39
  Sarah Kennedy: Might make you.
• 17:42
  Philip Pape: Always looking for that angle to drink.
• 17:43
  Philip Pape: Um, what now, are there other hormones that are triggered through this process besides GLP1?
• 17:48
  Philip Pape: Is it all the other uh appetite-suppressant hormones as well?
• 17:52
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, so what's fantastic about it?
• 17:54
  Sarah Kennedy: It first of all releases CCK.
• 17:56
  Sarah Kennedy: Now, CCK, as I said, is a very potent but short-lived uh appetite suppressing.
• 18:03
  Sarah Kennedy: So it does that first.
• 18:04
  Sarah Kennedy: That's the first part of the gastrointestinal tract.
• 18:06
  Sarah Kennedy: Gastroenterologists love it because it actually squeezes the gallbladder.
• 18:11
  Sarah Kennedy: CCK squeezes the gallbladder.
• 18:13
  Sarah Kennedy: So often on the synthetic GLP1s, um, you'll get stasis or your gallbladder won't squeeze, which can lead to gallbladder stones.
• 18:24
  Sarah Kennedy: So gastrointestinal, um, on the gastrointestinal, they love it.
• 18:29
  Sarah Kennedy: The next part it goes down, it releases GLP1, which is your appetite suppressing as well, and much longer lived.
• 18:37
  Sarah Kennedy: And then lastly, in the lower, in the lower part, it releases PYY.
• 18:42
  Sarah Kennedy: So, and that is so you're getting three gastrointestinal hormones, you're getting three appetite suppressing hormones, literally three for the one pill, uh, and it's it has a persistency, so it lasts for four to six hours.
• 18:57
  Sarah Kennedy: So a lot of people say, hey, these hormones get broken down in two minutes.
• 19:02
  Sarah Kennedy: Well, they do, but the thing is, as it travels down, I kind of liken it to a pinball machine, you know, in a pool, it's going down, it's banging against these taste receptors, and it's activating them as it goes down.
• 19:15
  Sarah Kennedy: So it lasts for four to six hours.
• 19:17
  Sarah Kennedy: And I will tell you about the following clinicals, which we know why it lasts for four to six hours with it.
• 19:25
  Sarah Kennedy: So think of this pinball machine.
• 19:27
  Sarah Kennedy: The other thing we get asked a lot was, well, do I have to keep taking it?
• 19:31
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, am I doing this?
• 19:33
  Sarah Kennedy: What we're actually doing is we're upregulating your brain, your gut brain access.
• 19:40
  Sarah Kennedy: So if you think about it, when you inject yourself with a DLP1 um injectable, so the synthetic, and nothing wrong with those.
• 19:48
  Sarah Kennedy: But when you inject yourself, you are down regulating your hormones because your hormones go, ah, you know what?
• 19:55
  Sarah Kennedy: I don't need to do anything.
• 19:56
  Sarah Kennedy: I'm going on holiday now.
• 19:58
  Sarah Kennedy: And you know, we know that.
• 19:59
  Sarah Kennedy: Happens and you know, if you think of it like testosterone, if you inject testosterone, your own natural testosterone goes down.
• 20:07
  Sarah Kennedy: So whenever you use a synthetic hormone, your own hormones decrease.
• 20:11
  Sarah Kennedy: So they go on holiday.
• 20:13
  Sarah Kennedy: So this is why when people come off the injectables or the synthetics, they get this intense hunger because they don't have any natural left and and you know and often regain the weight.
• 20:26
  Sarah Kennedy: So a marisade or calicurb is upregulating.
• 20:30
  Sarah Kennedy: So we like to say we're actually improving your gut brain access.
• 20:36
  Sarah Kennedy: And as we get older, your gut brain access is less because your little taste receptors die, you know, everything we've done to our bodies over the years, uh then so we are improving that gut brain access.
• 20:50
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 20:51
  Philip Pape: Upregulating hormones, we're talking, like you said, the GLP1, the CCK, the PUIY.
• 20:56
  Philip Pape: Oh, and and then just to reiterate for the listeners what Sarah was saying, you know, just normal eating increases those roughly, it sounds like 300%-ish, and these double that, and you get 18% reduction in calories consumed versus 25% for GLP1, or zero for placebo, right?
• 21:14
  Philip Pape: Roughly, or maybe it's a little more if you think you're in the study.
• 21:17
  Philip Pape: I think one of the trials, correct me if I'm wrong, showed that females had a stronger response than than men.
• 21:23
  Philip Pape: Is that true?
• 21:25
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, that was a fascinating trial, and I'm really proud we did it because less than 30% of clinical trials are done on females, and literally because females have hormones.
• 21:36
  Sarah Kennedy: And I was a bit grumpy.
• 21:38
  Sarah Kennedy: I was a bit grumpy when we had to do it.
• 21:40
  Sarah Kennedy: I was registering in Australia, and if anyone says I've got an Australian accent, I'll be very, very upset.
• 21:46
  Sarah Kennedy: It's New Zealand.
• 21:47
  Sarah Kennedy: No, no, but um, we had to do it for registration, and so it's it was an appetite, it was on hunger and craving.
• 21:56
  Sarah Kennedy: And interesting, when we did it on men, uh, we needed 30 men, it probably took six weeks, right?
• 22:03
  Sarah Kennedy: In females, it took 18 months.
• 22:06
  Sarah Kennedy: The really the and and it was a quarter of a million dollars.
• 22:09
  Sarah Kennedy: The reason is that you had to sink women on exactly the same day of their menstrual cycle, uh, on the same day of their menstrual cycle each month, uh, and on the same day of the week.
• 22:21
  Sarah Kennedy: And you had to do three times with the same woman because, and it was over COVID, because we did placebo, low dose, high dose.
• 22:30
  Sarah Kennedy: So this was a huge trial, and I'm really proud we did it, but I was a bit grumpy at the time, but I'm so proud of it because women are more sensitive to GLP uh stimulation, and they think we don't know, but they think once again it's evolutionary because it protected the fetus, if you could have potentially protected the fetus.
• 22:53
  Sarah Kennedy: So this is sort of the the suggestion behind it.
• 22:56
  Sarah Kennedy: But what we did was a 24-hour fast, so no a water-only 24-hour fast, and we gave calicurb at 16 hours into the fast and 20 hours.
• 23:08
  Sarah Kennedy: So these are the times when you'll be the hungriest in that last eight hours, and we measured hunger, craving, and then rebound eating.
• 23:17
  Sarah Kennedy: So in that last hour, uh eight hours, we got a hundred percent decrease in increased hunger.
• 23:25
  Sarah Kennedy: So at 24 hours, they were no more hungry than they were at 16 hours, and we got a 120% decrease uh in craving.
• 23:36
  Sarah Kennedy: So they were craving less at 24 hours than they were at 16 hours, and then we um we also gave a rebound eating, which was once again an ad libitin, and they ate 14.5% less calories, and that was after 24 hours.
• 23:54
  Sarah Kennedy: So you can actually equate that to, you know, we say a 30% reduction over 24 hours.
• 24:01
  Sarah Kennedy: You can say a 30% reduction in hunger, a 40% reduction in craving, and you know, an average of an 18% reduction in calorie intake.
• 24:10
  Sarah Kennedy: So yeah, it was a superb, absolutely superb response in the woman, and you know, and and leads it on to how it can be used.
• 24:18
  Sarah Kennedy: It doesn't always have to be used for weight.
• 24:21
  Sarah Kennedy: Certainly, you know, in a woman in a menstrual cycle in her luteal phase uh will on average eat 200 calories more a day.
• 24:31
  Sarah Kennedy: And and really, it's normal, it's natural.
• 24:35
  Sarah Kennedy: Your body is preparing in case you're going to implant an egg.
• 24:38
  Sarah Kennedy: So it's preparing and doing all of that.
• 24:43
  Sarah Kennedy: So women can eat up to 600 calories more a day, and you know, it's like that calling PMS, I just want chocolate.
• 24:51
  Sarah Kennedy: So incredible, you know, in that week um of the menstrual cycle.
• 24:56
  Sarah Kennedy: And the wonderful thing about Calicoop, you can come in and out of it because it works in an hour.
• 25:02
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, you don't have to build up a dosage, you don't have to do anything like that.
• 25:07
  Sarah Kennedy: So, yeah, you can say, I'm just gonna take it then.
• 25:10
  Sarah Kennedy: Of course, the other thing is in um menopausal women, uh, just so not fair, is it?
• 25:16
  Sarah Kennedy: I mean, and not only, you actually have to eat 200 calories less a day just to save the same size, because you'll do up an estrogen.
• 25:27
  Sarah Kennedy: So lower metabolic rate.
• 25:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah.
• 25:30
  Sarah Kennedy: So, and as I said, you can come in and out of it.
• 25:34
  Sarah Kennedy: So, yeah.
• 25:36
  Philip Pape: No, that that's power.
• 25:37
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I was curious about that, right?
• 25:38
  Philip Pape: Because I mean, I have a lot of clients, women, and I know it individual variation is is large, you know.
• 25:43
  Philip Pape: Some women don't notice much of a change, and others big cycles with their training, with their recovery, and with their um appetite.
• 25:50
  Philip Pape: And that's really powerful.
• 25:51
  Philip Pape: Like you said, it's not just to lose weight and be in a deficit, it could just be to offset periods of hunger.
• 25:56
  Philip Pape: I could see this being a tool when you have specific moments or events where you can use it as well.
• 26:02
  Philip Pape: I've been telling my audience that I'm gonna use it for my next fat loss phase as well to show them what it how it can be used as a tool.
• 26:09
  Philip Pape: And then uh the other thing is I was gonna ask you, have there been any uh long-term cohorts studied with like calorie deficit, you know, or weight loss phases or extreme approaches of that?
• 26:21
  Philip Pape: Like, have there been anything like that?
• 26:24
  Sarah Kennedy: Oh my god.
• 26:24
  Sarah Kennedy: So I'm just smiling at that.
• 26:26
  Sarah Kennedy: And I can't say too much, but um, I raised $3 million three years ago for our largest human clinical, which was a long one.
• 26:36
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh, and it was just done blinded in November, and the results were amazing.
• 26:44
  Sarah Kennedy: And I'm not allowed to say them yet because it has to be published, so we're waiting for it to be published in April, but yeah, I'm over the moon, and um, and that's a long term.
• 26:55
  Sarah Kennedy: So it was 150 patients, men and women, BMI between 25 and 35, uh uh six months, and very little intervention.
• 27:07
  Sarah Kennedy: So they had a group, um, this is what the scientist told me, they have a group tutorial once a month by Skype.
• 27:15
  Sarah Kennedy: So that was the only intervention.
• 27:17
  Sarah Kennedy: No diet, no exercise, no nothing.
• 27:20
  Sarah Kennedy: So yeah, it was unblinded, and I got the top line in um December.
• 27:25
  Sarah Kennedy: So very, very new, and um you really promising result, amazing results.
• 27:31
  Sarah Kennedy: So I'll be able to talk about them in April.
• 27:34
  Philip Pape: What a tease.
• 27:35
  Philip Pape: Uh and of course, and of course I ask, right?
• 27:38
  Philip Pape: Because everybody knows the numbers from the GLP1 agonists, where it's anywhere from I think uh the the basic semaglitide, something like 15, 17% or something, up to like terzepatite and the new retratite, I forgot to pronounce it's like up to 30.
• 27:51
  Philip Pape: Yeah, up to 30 percent.
• 27:53
  Philip Pape: You know, and so the kind of range I think in people's heads are like 15 to 25 percent ish.
• 27:57
  Philip Pape: And so whatever your number is, if if it's even five or ten percent, it's still an improvement.
• 28:02
  Philip Pape: So uh it sounds like you're optimistic.
• 28:04
  Philip Pape: I'm excited for that.
• 28:05
  Philip Pape: Maybe we have you on back again when that happens.
• 28:07
  Philip Pape: I love it.
• 28:08
  Sarah Kennedy: It's it's an amazing result, and I'm not allowed.
• 28:10
  Sarah Kennedy: I'll be absolutely flat, but I can say it's so promising, and I'm over the moon.
• 28:16
  Sarah Kennedy: But you know, it's really interesting.
• 28:18
  Sarah Kennedy: Anecdotally, we get thousands of people coming back and going, this has really helped me.
• 28:23
  Sarah Kennedy: I've lost weight, I've done this, and you know, we know anecdotally uh it's um amazing, but however, to have this long-term cohort and it to be published uh in April uh is is fantastic.
• 28:40
  Sarah Kennedy: So that was it was worth, you know, for three years I'm going, yeah, we're doing it, yeah, we're doing it, and I'd raised all this money and yeah, we're doing it.
• 28:48
  Sarah Kennedy: And then suddenly it was like a month away, and I'm like, oh my god, oh my god.
• 28:52
  Sarah Kennedy: But anyway, yeah, so uh all good.
• 28:55
  Philip Pape: So so the natural next question is will there then have to be a follow-up on uh what happens when they come if they stop using Calicrum for a while, just like when you stop using GLP1s, and you know, we talked about the weight regain and you talked about upregulation of hormones.
• 29:07
  Philip Pape: Is there gonna be a study for that as well?
• 29:10
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, we we did, yes, we did.
• 29:11
  Sarah Kennedy: We did a three-month follow-up, and that was um a great result as well.
• 29:18
  Sarah Kennedy: So, but that's all I'm allowed to say.
• 29:21
  Philip Pape: No, it's okay.
• 29:22
  Philip Pape: Listeners, I don't know anything about this.
• 29:23
  Philip Pape: I'm totally asking questions that I'm curious about, so obviously you're you're trying to answer them and they'll be answered shortly, so you guys just have to wait.
• 29:30
  Sarah Kennedy: Everything we do at Calico, we have four values, and the first one is uh we are we are science-led.
• 29:36
  Sarah Kennedy: So everything we say and do uh is science led, and we have a US regulatory consultant that we consult in every well, we have our own scientists here, but we have a US regulatory consultant, so everything we say is legal and backed by a clinical study.
• 29:52
  Sarah Kennedy: Our second value is customer success because if they're not successful, you know, we're not successful.
• 29:59
  Sarah Kennedy: So we always get this little whoop in the office if we get an amazing email back.
• 30:04
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, the other one is simplicity.
• 30:06
  Sarah Kennedy: We literally use all of our money for science.
• 30:10
  Sarah Kennedy: We don't try and expand our product range, we don't try and do anything like that.
• 30:14
  Sarah Kennedy: We are about Calicurb.
• 30:17
  Sarah Kennedy: So, you know, I always say we're a tool in the toolkit.
• 30:20
  Sarah Kennedy: And like you said, protein, protein, protein.
• 30:23
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, I can't talk more about that.
• 30:25
  Sarah Kennedy: Those are other tools, but we don't expand on that.
• 30:28
  Sarah Kennedy: So yeah, we have pretty um, and then our last one is uh passion, but with integrity.
• 30:34
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, it's such a sensitive product, it's such a sensitive area that you, you know, you we have to, and you know, my own story is why did I get into it?
• 30:43
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, you know, I'd battled with food my whole life, and you know, yo-yo dieting always on.
• 30:52
  Sarah Kennedy: And, you know, I don't think I was ever, you know, I'd sort of go in and out.
• 30:56
  Sarah Kennedy: I was never terribly overweight, but just battled that food noise, loving food but hating it, this love-hate relationship.
• 31:04
  Sarah Kennedy: And then I um calico came along, so obviously it resounded with me, and then um I took it for the first time, and I'm like, this is incredible.
• 31:16
  Sarah Kennedy: So now uh what we've been around six years, I can say I've got this absolute um I'm I'm at peace with food.
• 31:25
  Sarah Kennedy: I can eat, but I just don't eat as much.
• 31:27
  Sarah Kennedy: I mean, I still take calicurb.
• 31:29
  Sarah Kennedy: I we used to say, you know, gin is mummy's little helper.
• 31:33
  Sarah Kennedy: I say it's not gin, it's um calicurb because it doesn't matter what you're doing, as I said, you are surrounded by food every day.
• 31:41
  Sarah Kennedy: So you just want to you want to eat it.
• 31:44
  Sarah Kennedy: You just want to eat less of it.
• 31:45
  Sarah Kennedy: You don't want to not eat, you just want to eat less of it and have that control mechanism.
• 31:51
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you mentioned food noise, and and that has become more of a topic of conversation with the GLP ones.
• 31:57
  Philip Pape: When they first came out, um, many of us in this industry were, you know, either skeptical or kind of jumped on that bandwagon of judgment and criticism of, hey, this is a shortcut, this is a quick fix kind of thing.
• 32:09
  Philip Pape: And I think the nuance has come into the equation over the last, you know, couple of years.
• 32:13
  Philip Pape: Obviously, Ozempic came out 30 years ago, people don't realize that or something like that.
• 32:17
  Philip Pape: But but the more recent ones, and we had a I had a guy on this um show, his name is Jamie Sellsler, and he he was 650, approaching 700 pounds.
• 32:26
  Philip Pape: Wow.
• 32:26
  Philip Pape: He just recently got under 300, and he talked about how he needed to cut out that food nose.
• 32:31
  Philip Pape: Now he he didn't he went the pharmaceutical route as he needed to.
• 32:34
  Philip Pape: It was so extreme of a situation.
• 32:36
  Philip Pape: He was at death's door.
• 32:37
  Philip Pape: But I think you bring up an important point in that there's body image, uh, there's the weight loss industry, there's the whole spectrum of like, do you do this naturally?
• 32:49
  Philip Pape: Where do supplements fit in and where does all that fit in?
• 32:52
  Philip Pape: And I'm a big fan of looking at these things as tools, um, not look using them as a crutch necessarily.
• 32:57
  Philip Pape: So having said that, you said you still take Calicurb.
• 33:01
  Philip Pape: What are the experiences of some people taking Calicurb in conjunction with lifestyle changes?
• 33:07
  Philip Pape: And maybe that's from an education standpoint on your end or something else.
• 33:11
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, look, there's a number of ways to use Calicurb, but you know, the first one is if you want to use it as an alternative.
• 33:18
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, you just want to go that natural route.
• 33:20
  Sarah Kennedy: You don't want to inject yourself, you can't take the side effects.
• 33:23
  Sarah Kennedy: So absolutely.
• 33:25
  Sarah Kennedy: But once again, as you say, you've got to put lifestyle changes in.
• 33:29
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, I say if you go from eight donuts to if you go from ten donuts to eight donuts, it's really not going to make a lot of difference other than two donuts.
• 33:37
  Sarah Kennedy: But so, you know, you want to be thinking about that, you know, your diet, whole foods, protein is a fabulous, fabulous thing because it does fill you up, particularly as you're getting older, because we do our muscles degrade by 0.5% a year.
• 33:53
  Sarah Kennedy: So absolutely, and and exercise, strength exercise.
• 33:57
  Sarah Kennedy: So as an alternative, just quieting that noise down, allowing you to eat less.
• 34:02
  Sarah Kennedy: A lot of physicians are using it in combination, and that's a really interesting one because they actually interesting, they will start them off on calicurb, and if they're not getting the exact result, they'll then put them onto an injectable so they can start at the lowest dose, but stay at the lowest dose.
• 34:23
  Sarah Kennedy: Because if you think about it, when you're injecting your synthetic hormone, right?
• 34:28
  Sarah Kennedy: But you're using calicurb at the same time, so you're stimulating your natural hormones, so you're getting both.
• 34:34
  Sarah Kennedy: So you don't need because you have to keep up in your dose on the injectables because you're desensitizing your body.
• 34:42
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, you're bathing your body in this high, high, high, high synthetic hormones 24 hours a day for seven days.
• 34:52
  Sarah Kennedy: So you want to keep it lower if you can and increase.
• 34:56
  Sarah Kennedy: And what they're finding is in day five, that it stops that breakthrough hunger.
• 35:02
  Sarah Kennedy: So use it in combination, really great usage like that.
• 35:06
  Sarah Kennedy: And then the third one I say is not an if, it's a must.
• 35:10
  Sarah Kennedy: When you come off an injectable, remember, I said your own natural GLP1 levels are at zero.
• 35:18
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, they're like, hey, I'm still on holiday, I'm not coming back.
• 35:22
  Sarah Kennedy: So T-Trate off using Calicurb and stay on Calicurb until that brain access keeps work, it starts working again.
• 35:32
  Sarah Kennedy: And this is why you just see this enormous rebound, because you know, the hunger comes back.
• 35:38
  Sarah Kennedy: So you've got to restart or kickstart that gut brain access.
• 35:42
  Sarah Kennedy: And interesting, I read a study the other day, um, you know, because we look at the physiology, and I talked to you about the physiology dampening down that natural GLP one or making that go to zero.
• 35:54
  Sarah Kennedy: But there is a there, that's a physiology, but there is a psychology as well.
• 35:59
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, they did this um um measurement on people coming off GLP1.
• 36:04
  Sarah Kennedy: A hundred percent had um fear.
• 36:08
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, fear and hopelessness coming off.
• 36:12
  Sarah Kennedy: You don't want your patients to feel that.
• 36:14
  Sarah Kennedy: You don't want people to feel fear and hopelessness because they've come to depend on them.
• 36:19
  Sarah Kennedy: So, yeah, three alternative uh in combination uh and and absolutely, absolutely coming off.
• 36:28
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I didn't even think about the fact that you could use them in combination, but that makes total sense.
• 36:32
  Philip Pape: And it makes me think of, you know, when we've had members in our in our group who come in on turzepatide, for example, and they're lifting weights and they're walking and they're eating better than they have before, and they want to titrate off of it.
• 36:46
  Philip Pape: And and I have seen that situation where even if they slowly do that, uh the hunger's really ramping up.
• 36:52
  Philip Pape: And I can see Calicurb as a solution, even because one of the solutions I've had to offer is let's just eat more and get back to maintenance or even shift into a bulking phase timed with you coming off because now you're gonna eat more, or doesn't necessarily address the root cause with the hunger.
• 37:07
  Philip Pape: So that's that's fantastic.
• 37:09
  Philip Pape: Speaking of food noise, then I know with the medications, some people have other types of noise and addiction reduced at in the brain.
• 37:19
  Philip Pape: Does it does it have a similar effect because it comes down to GLP1 or is that another mechanism happening in those?
• 37:25
  Sarah Kennedy: Well, no, once again, um we think it does because your appetite center is right by your addiction center, really, in your hind brain.
• 37:34
  Sarah Kennedy: And so we have had a lot of people coming to us and going, you know, I just drink less alcohol.
• 37:39
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, I just drink this.
• 37:40
  Sarah Kennedy: So we think it does, but we haven't done any clinicals on it.
• 37:44
  Sarah Kennedy: So I think it's gonna help.
• 37:45
  Sarah Kennedy: And of course, um, you know, if you feel fuller, you know, um I do know it takes away that sweet craving.
• 37:52
  Sarah Kennedy: So many people say that after dinner treat, you know, when I'm watching television or something like that, I eat less.
• 37:58
  Sarah Kennedy: But yes, we have heard about it with alcohol.
• 38:01
  Philip Pape: Well, now you that brings up another question.
• 38:03
  Philip Pape: You mentioned the the craving.
• 38:04
  Philip Pape: So on GOP1s, some people find like fattier, ultra-processed foods kind of repulsive or they get sick.
• 38:11
  Philip Pape: Uh, do we see again?
• 38:12
  Philip Pape: Do you see some of that as well?
• 38:12
  Philip Pape: Even if it's anecdotally, I appreciate your nuance that we haven't studied all of these.
• 38:16
  Sarah Kennedy: Well, we do, you know, we do know the craving.
• 38:18
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, we did do that clinical in woman.
• 38:21
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh, we were showed 120% less in craving, and it was actually a sweet craving.
• 38:26
  Sarah Kennedy: So we do know that.
• 38:28
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, so yes, and absolutely what we're finding is a lot of people say to us, hey, you know, after dinner I would always sit with my husband and I'd have, you know, some chocolate or something like that.
• 38:39
  Sarah Kennedy: It's sort of a reward for the end of the day.
• 38:41
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, they're like, I don't need it.
• 38:43
  Sarah Kennedy: So I always say, you know, if that's when you're getting your worst cravings, remember with Kilacoube, you must take it at least an hour before a main meal.
• 38:53
  Sarah Kennedy: The reason being is nothing particular, it's just got to go into your, it's got to get past your stomach and go into your upper duodenum.
• 39:00
  Sarah Kennedy: So take it with water.
• 39:01
  Sarah Kennedy: It doesn't matter if it's two hours, it doesn't matter if it's three hours.
• 39:04
  Sarah Kennedy: We only say an hour to make it easier.
• 39:07
  Sarah Kennedy: Like eye intermittent fast.
• 39:09
  Sarah Kennedy: So I take mine about eight or nine o'clock in the morning, and then I can go through till 12 or 1 o'clock, and you know, and I'm I can walk past that muffin, I can walk past that, and I'm fine.
• 39:22
  Sarah Kennedy: But you know, you can take it.
• 39:24
  Sarah Kennedy: But if you're trying to reduce your cautions, take it at least an hour, an hour and a half.
• 39:30
  Sarah Kennedy: And how do you remember that?
• 39:31
  Sarah Kennedy: I always say, look, you know, 10:30 in the morning, you know, if that's when you get your cup of coffee, we get your morning tea.
• 39:38
  Sarah Kennedy: Um I'm very English in saying morning tea, isn't it?
• 39:41
  Sarah Kennedy: That's what we have in um have our morning tea is have your calicurb then.
• 39:45
  Sarah Kennedy: And in the afternoon, you know, about three o'clock, you'll get that slump or you're a bit tired, take your calicurb then with a large glass of water.
• 39:55
  Philip Pape: So that's that's the protocol.
• 39:56
  Philip Pape: And and it make the timing makes sense because you mentioned before it takes about forty five minutes.
• 39:59
  Philip Pape: And it's with the time released to get in there.
• 40:01
  Philip Pape: And then it lasts four to six hours, meaning you have a big window.
• 40:04
  Philip Pape: So I like that.
• 40:05
  Philip Pape: My man is already going to not just a typical like calorie deficit type fat loss phase, but sometimes I'll run with more advanced clients, something called rapid fat loss, which there's different forms of that out there, right?
• 40:16
  Philip Pape: Like protein modified fast.
• 40:17
  Philip Pape: Uh Lyle McDonald has his version of that, kind of this evidence-based, you know, two-week or three-week approach where you're eating almost exclusively protein for like four days and then you refeed, you know, back all the way up to your maintenance calories for a day, kind of recover some leptin and get a little psychological boost and all that.
• 40:34
  Philip Pape: This could be a really powerful tool for that as well.
• 40:37
  Philip Pape: Because now you're talking about slashing calories by like 45% from your maintenance just for a short duration, but some people can't even handle that and they want to give it a shot.
• 40:45
  Philip Pape: So it's in my head, uh, Sarah, as a possibility.
• 40:49
  Sarah Kennedy: It would be fantastic for that.
• 40:51
  Sarah Kennedy: And that's why I say, you know, people use it for all, you know, like people use it when they're going on holiday.
• 40:57
  Sarah Kennedy: Um, you know, because you're on a cruise and they just don't want to eat too much.
• 41:01
  Sarah Kennedy: You know, they use it, but you know, you can come in and out of it.
• 41:04
  Sarah Kennedy: That's what I love.
• 41:05
  Sarah Kennedy: If I've gone to a degastation dinner or something like that, uh, I'm like, I'm not gonna take my calico, you know, because I want to eat my dinner.
• 41:13
  Sarah Kennedy: So, you know, these are these, um, you know, the ways you can use it.
• 41:16
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh, we do say when people start on it, just start, um, there is a a ramp up like and really like everything.
• 41:24
  Sarah Kennedy: Remember, this is a biologically active product.
• 41:27
  Sarah Kennedy: You, um, some people, around 5% of people are what we call super tasters, so super gut tasters.
• 41:35
  Sarah Kennedy: So they will just need one capsule.
• 41:38
  Sarah Kennedy: So we just say start low and slow and build up over two to three days.
• 41:43
  Sarah Kennedy: The the the dosage is two capsules, you know, before a main meal, uh, before lunch and before dinner, if you're reducing calories, but you may be one of the super tasters, the five percent, and you may only need one.
• 41:56
  Sarah Kennedy: And you will know if you've had too much because you'll get a laxative effect.
• 42:01
  Sarah Kennedy: That's all.
• 42:02
  Sarah Kennedy: You will get, you know, it'll be an hour after you've taken it, and it's a laxative effect.
• 42:07
  Sarah Kennedy: So nothing to stress about.
• 42:09
  Sarah Kennedy: The other thing we could ask is to just to let you know, it's incredibly safe.
• 42:13
  Sarah Kennedy: We did some human biome bioavailability trials, and less than one percent is absorbed, well, one percent is absorbed in the bloodstream.
• 42:23
  Sarah Kennedy: So, and of that one percent, less than five percent of that one percent, so 0.001, is metabolized in the liver.
• 42:33
  Sarah Kennedy: So really important because people go, well, I'm taking other drugs, you know, and sometimes supplements can either speed them up or slow them down.
• 42:41
  Sarah Kennedy: We don't do any of that.
• 42:43
  Sarah Kennedy: We work exclusively, we're exclusive to the gut.
• 42:47
  Philip Pape: I'm glad we have this conversation because you covered, I think, all the bases, but I want to give you the opportunity, Sarah.
• 42:52
  Philip Pape: Is there a base that we haven't covered that we should address before we uh before we sign off about Calicurb or about hunger or anything we talked about today?
• 43:02
  Sarah Kennedy: No, I think, you know, I'm I'm terribly proud of it.
• 43:04
  Sarah Kennedy: As I said, it's it came from and it's still owned by the government.
• 43:08
  Sarah Kennedy: Most people don't realize that, and we have the worldwide license to it.
• 43:13
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh so everything we do has to be totally um correct, uh, is because they own the technology uh and they veto um, you know, all well, they do all of the clinical trials and so on like that.
• 43:26
  Sarah Kennedy: So there's no um uh yeah, it's it's really above board.
• 43:31
  Sarah Kennedy: So I'm very proud of it.
• 43:33
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh as you can imagine, I think what it does, it assists us in the modern world.
• 43:38
  Sarah Kennedy: We have a primitive brain that hasn't evolved with the modern world.
• 43:43
  Sarah Kennedy: So it is, it is just really, and once again, to your point, a tool in the toolkit.
• 43:49
  Sarah Kennedy: You have to do other things with it.
• 43:52
  Sarah Kennedy: But you know, these are all things that are controllable if you take that noise out of your head, which remember is evolutionary.
• 44:01
  Sarah Kennedy: It was driving you to hunt.
• 44:03
  Sarah Kennedy: So don't blame yourself.
• 44:05
  Sarah Kennedy: It is it is what we were designed to do.
• 44:09
  Philip Pape: Well, thank you, Sarah.
• 44:10
  Philip Pape: Um, yeah, I think it's a powerful tool with a lot of upsides.
• 44:13
  Philip Pape: And if you're listening or if you're watching on YouTube, feel free to comment below.
• 44:16
  Philip Pape: If you have questions, we'll get them to Sarah.
• 44:18
  Philip Pape: And I will include a link in the show notes to get 10% off CalloCurb, by the way.
• 44:23
  Philip Pape: You guys can go to witsandweeights.com/slash calocurb to try it out.
• 44:26
  Philip Pape: Definitely just give it a shot.
• 44:27
  Philip Pape: You don't even have to subscribe, just grab one, try it out, and you'll know pretty quickly, I think, if it helps you out.
• 44:32
  Philip Pape: So, Sarah, besides that, where can people reach you or the company to kind of learn more about this or just say hello?
• 44:39
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, just go to our website, which is www.calacurb-c-a-l-o-c-ur-b dot com.
• 44:48
  Sarah Kennedy: So calacurb.
• 44:50
  Sarah Kennedy: Uh, and look, people always say, why did you name it that NAF name?
• 44:54
  Sarah Kennedy: But the thing is, when you go to name something, it's really, really hard to get something that you can trademark globally.
• 45:01
  Sarah Kennedy: So um, anyway, so Calicurb, or you can just go hello at Calacurb and we'll literally answer your questions um the same day.
• 45:10
  Philip Pape: When I first mentioned this to my wife, she's like, Oh, like curbiocalories.
• 45:13
  Philip Pape: I'm like, Yes, exactly.
• 45:14
  Philip Pape: Because I didn't even notice it the first time.
• 45:16
  Philip Pape: She's just like, boom.
• 45:18
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, she's well, because we call the hop extract a marisate.
• 45:22
  Sarah Kennedy: And as I said, never ever let scientists name anything.
• 45:27
  Sarah Kennedy: Because it was named that when they brought it to me, an a marisate, meaning um bitter in Latin and satiation um in Latin, so bitter satiation.
• 45:38
  Sarah Kennedy: But of course, no one in the world can pronounce it.
• 45:41
  Sarah Kennedy: And and but the scientists still love it.
• 45:43
  Sarah Kennedy: They're like, oh yeah, it's such a good name.
• 45:45
  Sarah Kennedy: So I'm like, look, you guys stay with the science.
• 45:48
  Philip Pape: I I hear you.
• 45:49
  Philip Pape: The hormones are hard to pronounce, they're all hard to pronounce.
• 45:51
  Philip Pape: At least I think of my country, America, and I'm like, America America.
• 45:53
  Philip Pape: There we go.
• 45:54
  Philip Pape: That's how I remember it.
• 45:55
  Philip Pape: Okay, cool.
• 45:56
  Philip Pape: That's how I did it.
• 45:58
  Philip Pape: After I listened to like three other podcast episodes and make sure it's said the right way.
• 46:02
  Philip Pape: All right, Sarah.
• 46:03
  Philip Pape: Well, this has been a pleasure.
• 46:04
  Philip Pape: Um, I learned a ton, which is is my first goal because then I know the listeners are gonna learn a lot.
• 46:08
  Philip Pape: And um, thank you again for being on and and thank you for this partnership as well.
• 46:12
  Philip Pape: I'm looking forward to using the product myself personally and then maybe experimenting with different ways that clients and um listeners can use it as well.
• 46:18
  Philip Pape: So thank you, Sarah.
• 46:19
  Sarah Kennedy: I can't wait to come back and talk to you about the um the longer.
• 46:23
  Sarah Kennedy: Yeah, I can't wait to.
• 46:25
  Philip Pape: Yes, yes, yes.
• 46:26
  Philip Pape: That's a great hook.
• 46:26
  Philip Pape: That's a great hook.
• 46:27
  Philip Pape: We're gonna be dying to hear about that.
• 46:29
  Philip Pape: All right, Sarah, been a pleasure.
• 46:30
  Philip Pape: Thank you so much for coming on, Wits and Wait, four, four, four, four, five, five, and then, four.