Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Growing Slow When Life Looks Different Than You Thought with Jennifer Dukes Lee

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Growing Slow When Life Looks Different Than You Thought with Jennifer Dukes Lee · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast with Amy Wicks, your wholehearted life and business coach.
0:09
SPEAKER_01: You should know this podcast will inspire you to grow in self-awareness, be passionate about your faith, and get clear on your calling.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: If you are new here, then welcome to the community of multi-passionate women who love to go deep on topics like faith, Enneagram, relationships, leadership, and community.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: This conversation might provide the step you need to make the change you desire.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Jennifer Dukesley and I are going to talk about what it looks like to grow slow.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: And I think this conversation is so timely.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: We're officially into spring.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: It's after Easter, and we're looking at the fast pace hurdle towards summer.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: So what does it look like to grow slow, even in the midst of a fast paced season?
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Also, if you're like me and like so many of the women I work with, you're likely wired to move fast.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: You are excited to achieve more, and you love saying yes, even if your soul is asking you to pause.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: So I want to ask you, what if slowing down isn't falling behind?
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Could it be the way forward?
1:46
SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned just a minute ago, Jennifer Dukes Lee is the guest for today's conversation.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And she is the author of a book called Growing Slow.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: And it has truly reshaped how I think about purpose, pace, and the unseen work God does in the waiting seasons.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: This conversation is rich, and we talk about the quiet work of transformation, the parallels between spiritual growth and planting seasons, and how to stay rooted in God's timing, even if your heart is feeling restless.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Of course, we talked about Enneagram and how it relates to the distinct and unique invitation to grow slow.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Plus, Jennifer drops a few hints about a project that she's been working on and that she'll get to share more about in just a few months.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: If you happen to find yourself in a season where your soul is looking for a new rhythm, but you're not sure what it looks like or what it is that you need to put down so you can press into the other purposes, I want to remind you that you don't have to figure out what that looks like on your own.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to invite you to book a clarity call with me.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a session to help you discern where you are and where God is leading you next.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: As always, you can find the important links for this conversation in the show notes.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: All right, let's dive right in.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Hey Jennifer.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Hi, how are you?
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Good.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about this conversation, but I believe that you as well have been really mindful of the seasons and sharing about it with your community.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: And I've been mindful because I've had a long winter season.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: And I was reminiscing to last spring, where it's typically similar year after year here in Kansas City.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Fairly predictable.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Some years are more vibrant than others, but this year it feels exceptional.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think because it aligns with in my life, winter is finally evolving into spring in some of the just my spiritual life and some things that I've been in the waiting room for.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I was just thinking about how in talking about spring and thinking about it in light of Easter coming because it changes when Easter comes, you know, that it depends on the calendar, but it does signify spring.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's it can be challenging when we're listening to conversations about spring or noticing it around us or hearing that it's happening somewhere else in the country.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: And it's not quite spring for us.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking about it's probably a little different for you than it is for me right now.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: It is, but it's been it's been really pleasant.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: It's been a beautiful, beautiful time of year and been trying to get outside just as much as I possibly can.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And I love to get under a big blue sky and just be a part of nature.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: It makes me very happy.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, similarly, for sure.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, I am really excited to dive into your book that remind me, was it about a year ago you came out with Growing Slow?
4:57
SPEAKER_01: And do I have that right?
4:58
SPEAKER_01: I saw that in the notes and I wanted to mention it's four years.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's me then that I stumbled upon it a year ago.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, in some ways it does feel like it was just a year ago, but yeah, it was it was 2021.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: And that does make sense.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I've been following you at least that long because we we can just say the last five years have been a time warp.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: That's such a good point.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I I'm I'm just excited to talk about it in light of we're just we have just celebrated Easter.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: We're coming into the fullness of spring.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: And I I really talk a lot to women who are like me, multi-passionate women, leading a helping lead a family, leading in their community, maybe running a business or working within their a purpose project.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: And so growth is a common conversation.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: And the speed of growth is often a main point of conversation.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: So I just think this book is a perfect companion for this time in my series.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear as we go back four years for you and really five, six years, because that's it takes a long time to get a book out.
6:22
SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about the story behind the book and really the narrative that you've captured in in the conversation that you share in that that work.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I wrote the book Growing Slow, but based on my personality type and my Enneagram, I could have more easily written a book called Growing Fast.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm the kind of a woman who, you know, feels like I gotta be the most responsible person in the room, have everything under control, say yes to everything.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Like just sometimes it's almost like I'm trying to race against a freight train or something in in my life in general, since I've been a little kid.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: Just get things done, scale, hustle.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, honestly, that actually worked out pretty well for me when I was younger.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I'm like, hey, I can do this, I can get things done, and I can, you know, my bosses liked me, my teachers liked me.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I was pleasing, you know, if I was on a committee, people liked me on their committee because I was gonna do my part.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: But I got to the point where uh probably in my late 30s and early 40s, my body was no longer able to keep pace with my desire to hustle and get things done.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: And it it's like my body forced me to look at my life in a different way.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm not saying that I should have been hustling like I was when I was younger.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that I should have been, you know, doing everything I could to make the boss happy and to make the teacher happy and to make the professor happy.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't I look back on that and I do feel some tinge of regret because I know how relationships suffered.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: I can see it now on the playback that the most important thing for me was getting to the next level or taking the next step.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like uh, well, here, let me put it this way: you cannot hurry and connect at the same time.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: You can't like hurry and connect with people at the same time, you cannot hurry and connect with God at the same time.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: And while some great things happened as a result of my hustle, I paid the price in terms of relationships.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: And then I began to pay the price when it came to my body.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of like anxiety, I couldn't sleep at night, I had gut issues, all kinds of stuff was going on.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I would even get these like low-grade fevers, which was so weird.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm not sick.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: And I went to the doctor, and they're like, I don't know, we don't, we don't know what's wrong.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: So I went to like this chiropractic, chiropractic functional med doctor, and he really helped me see.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: He just looked at him at me in a more holistic way and says, You have something that's like a hurry sickness, like you have a hurried heart, and there's no pill for this.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: This is something that you're just gonna have to, you're gonna have to look at your life a little bit differently and slow down, which are two words that I did not like.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: I hated when people told me to slow, tell me to slow down.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It goes against who I am as a three.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, it just it's like, no, that I I don't know how to do that.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: So it took a long time to dismantle the my way of thinking that I had to be in the world.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm telling you, it made such a difference.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Not only I needed to do it for my physical health, but it turns out that it was a gift to my relational health, it was a gift to my marriage, to my parenting, to my spiritual life.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: All aspects of my life changed as a result of growing slow.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And when I discovered that, then I've decided to write a book about it.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: So this journey is actually something that happened, you know, about a decade before, but it felt worthwhile after I'd been living it for a while to say, hey, let's let me share this with other women.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I love.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Hard-earned wisdom paired with real story of transformation because you lived it.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's why the message will preach.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: You touched on something there.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: I think it's worth expanding upon.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear it from your version or your words.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: I've been speaking a lot to women who are going after their purpose or building a business.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times I'm seeing patterns where it's being built out of maladaptive behavior.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Because to your point, going after that, pursuit of growth, pursuit of purpose, passion, but doing it out of a place of fear instead of a place of love just leads to this burnout and the chronic sickness, things that you talked about.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: So tell me a little bit about that switch for you, switching, switching your growth or your pursuits from a place of love instead of this fear, or like you said, maybe the maladaptive behavior that got you praise but wasn't serving you in the end.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: So along with the fact of being a high achieving person, I am a people pleaser and an approval seeker.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: I even that's my very first book.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: See, I just keep having these chronic problems.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: And then I I have like an endless supply of book ideas because as soon as God cracked out one thing, then along comes something else.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: But absolutely for me, you know, it just feels like somebody, somebody needs something.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of times it's I do it out of a place of I want to help.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: I want, you know, I want to, you know, be seen as the kind of person who's gonna show up.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be seen as the slacker.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to disappoint people.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to say no and what that's going to mean.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: But um, growing slow requires um an adjustment in your way of thinking that you probably are gonna disappoint disappoint people, particularly the people who counted on you in the past, but you learn to set priorities about um the people that you do want to serve.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: And you know, so for me, it's it's my family, but also, you know, like my readers.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: That's that's really important to me too.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: I think it's okay, like for those of you listening that have like a business or a listenership or a readership, it's okay to serve those people, but just like figure out where your priorities are and serve them well and know that you can't be all things to all people and that your no is really valuable so that your yeses can be super helpful to the people that you are called to serve most diligently.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: What were some of the practical things that you implemented besides saying no?
12:58
SPEAKER_01: What did it look like to take that pause or step into something else or stepping out of another thing?
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, some of the things are actually really simple, Amy.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like even waking up and you know, how you can just kind of get into that fight or flight mode right away if you pick up your phone and really being intentional about not looking at my phone right away because it created an immediate hurried heart.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: It like something already felt urgent before my my before my feet even hit the floor.
13:31
SPEAKER_00: It was things like that.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: And so then it was like, you know, using the first bit of day to just really set the tone for the day.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: And when I started, it was just like a few minutes, like a few minutes of prayer or a few minutes of contemplation, a few minutes of just reflecting.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: And now that's actually turned into like this huge, almost hour-long time in my in my day.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: It's like just little habits, just a little bit at a time.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: Eventually you realize how life-giving those those are and they expand out.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: Things like eating.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: So I used to eat at my desk or eat while standing up, and I didn't really taste the food.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And I began to be really deliberate about mealtime, sitting down, noticing the colors and the flavors and the textures.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: God could have decided to fuel our bodies by sending us to a gas tank or something and pumping the side of your, and then you fuel yourself up and you don't, but or a pill, take a pill every few days, and that'll fuel you.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: But no, God decided to give us tastes and sweets and savory and textures and just so many beautiful foods.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And the boy, if we don't even take the time to enjoy that, we're really missing out.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: And then a third thing is I've stopped multitasking.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: I used to have like a gazillion um documents open and all of these tabs open, like literally on the computer and also metaphorically in my brain, while also thinking through a lot of different other things I had going on in my life.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: And it really created a sort of scattered way of doing my work.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: When I began to single task instead of multitask, my productivity increased.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: So I was actually, in some ways, my work was getting done slower, but it was so much more effective and richer, and I was making fewer mistakes.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: So in the end, I was probably, I became more productive.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't like losing my edge.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't losing ground.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: I was in the act, in the simple act of growing slow, I was weirdly becoming more productive because of my shift toward single tasking.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So those would be three things that I would really recommend that somebody try if they want to think through what it looks like to grow slow.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, beautiful.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: I like the word effective when we go to single tasking.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And I can agree with that.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: As a as a woman who has a lot of tabs open in my brain or on the browser, it it helps so much when I close out the email tab and focus on the project and see it to completion instead of hopping back and forth because that fractured thinking really doesn't serve us well.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't help our brain flow, but it certainly doesn't help our body as well.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: I I love that you touched on contemplative practice and just spending that time with the Lord, putting the phone in the other room, or maybe no, not having it next to you as you sleep.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: I, in our coaching process, in the whole heart of coaching process, I invite women to try for two minutes a contemplative practice, stillness, silence, solitude, just two minutes.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think you, your testament is that it just started really small at first, and then it it grew over time.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: What would you say?
16:55
SPEAKER_01: How many years did that take?
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Or when did you finally look back and go, oh, it started at a few minutes?
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Here we are, and I want more.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I can handle more.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: So um to to be fair, um, I'm able to have more time now, also because my children are out of the home.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: So this is very important to say.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: I think that's an important distinction because if there's a young parent listening right now, or just somebody who's maybe like a single working professional and just has to be doing everything all on their own, like I get that it's and I was I was in that space.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: So my my um perspective is always just like to do whatever you can whenever you can and know that every little bit matters, just like every bit of running matters or exercise or stretching or strength training, like all of those kind of bodily things, all of those things matter.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: So does every moment that we spend in a contemplative practice.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: So for me, what it looked like when the when the girls were little, um it was very, it was very brief and it wasn't pretty.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: And this was even before the big Instagram aesthetic that demanded that I have like a certain number of candles and a certain sensor and that would make the angels weep.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: It was so beautiful.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't, it wasn't like that.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: It was like praying with the girls as we, you know, went down to the end of the driveway to drop them off at the bus.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, them seeing me in my Bible study if they were home, like on a weekend, and then they would have their own little workbooks where they were doing their study, even though they they weren't really doing Bible study.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: But let's face it, you know, they were kind of, they were kind, they were modeling what mom was doing.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: And so as they got older, um, I was doing these practices and I was able to stretch out the time, and I began to desire the stretched out time because once you have a taste for that and you see the difference that it that it makes in inviting God into your life at the start of a day, you want more of that.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: So now I am typically at 30 minutes is the low side, it's usually more like an hour.
18:57
SPEAKER_00: And I've also learned even just how to get up earlier because I crave Jesus and I also crave my first cup of coffee.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: My goodness, do I love my coffee?
19:05
SPEAKER_01: You and we both sister.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think it's just it's expanded over time.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: But I'm telling you, Amy, even those precious moments when quiet time didn't even seem very quiet with little kids around, there were there were God was planting seeds in me.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: I was planting seeds in my children without even knowing it.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: And things that I learned back then and you know, five and 10 minute snippets influenced the way that I behave now.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: Like things that I've written down in journals that I go back and read, things that I prayed then that I see the fruit of now, uh, things that I've written in this in the margins of my Bible.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think, wow, yes, like you thought that 20 years ago, and you're still hanging on to that today.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: So it all matters.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: These are the mattering things.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that is beautiful.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay, sound bite right there.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: I can think of a couple of questions that I want to ask from this or things to highlight.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: One of them is this growth that you just illustrated in your time of desiring to be with the Lord.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: It's not always instant.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Most of the time it isn't, and it's not always obvious.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: So what wisdom would you offer or other places in your life that you saw or that you've seen growth over the long stretch of time, the long obedience in the same direction that is worth imparting some encouragement to us as we're thinking, man, the growth that we're wanting or the thing that we're desiring more of, it's taking so much time.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Or my little seeds feel insignificant.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Help us see the value in the small and the little and and that long viewpoint.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to tell this first because I'm a writer by way of a metaphor, and also because I'm a farm wife.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: I live on a farm in Iowa.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: So you can see for miles to the edge of the, it just feels like to the edge of the world.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: We live in a county where pigs outnumber people by a significant margin.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, really.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: So we're also surrounded by cornfields and soybean fields.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: And my husband's a farmer.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: So in the spring, he plants literally millions of seeds into these hundreds of acres.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And when he plants that seed, it can take sometimes a couple weeks before you see even just a tiny bit of growth.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And then day by day, the growth is so incremental, you can't see it.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: It's only when you look, you know, maybe a couple weeks later, you're like, wow, things are growing, things are happening here.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, summer comes along and all of the rows are green and everything is touching.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: You can't even see the ground anymore.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: It's just a sea of green.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And then as the cornfield or as the corn grows from that, you know, tiny little shoot.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Straight up with these big leaves and then it tassels at the top.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: This is taking months and months.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: The very last thing to grow on a corn plant is the corn.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Right?
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Just like in a fruit tree, the very last thing to grow on that fruit tree is the fruit.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: It's all of that other work that seems seemingly insignificant, that seems so slow, that makes it foundational, that gives the plant the energy and the ability to grow the fruit.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: And the same is true for us.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: All of those foundational pieces, you know, all the all the, you know, we we're told over and over grow up, grow up, grow up ever since we've been kid, kids.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: But God is like, grow down, down into the heart of things.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And so before you even start growing upward in your business or your relationships, roots down in places where you cannot see.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: And then that growth happens and it can be incremental.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: But the slow growth of the plant is what keeps it strong because storms come out here in these wide open places.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: We have wind, we have hail, we have drought.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: And because the plant is rooted and it's taken the time it needs to grow, it can withstand storms.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: The same is true for us.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I tell people this in publishing all the time.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: So many people want to get their books published.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think a lot of times um too many authors get in a hurry and they want to get published, but they can't you gotta wait and you gotta wait.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: You have to wait until the time is right, until you have something to say, until you have an audience that's that's already paying attention somewhat.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: You have you have to grow these things and they take time.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: And in order to have a ministry be strong, you have to have taken the time to let things grow slow instead of relying on something going viral, which by its very nature comes from the word virus.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: So you know, I think that we're we really want that.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: We really want that.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like we're just so trained to want viral growth and to want things quickly, but there's so much more valuable, there's just so much more value in growing slow in agriculture.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: We call it sustainable agriculture, things that can stay for a while.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: So, like whatever you're thinking about right now, you who are listening on the other side of this conversation, a sustainable family takes time to grow, a sustainable business, a sustainable marriage, a sustainable uh ministry, whatever it is, these things take time to grow.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: And we just have to let them have that time.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Ah, beautifully said.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: All right.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: To continue on with the metaphor, again, I think your Instagram kind of shares that you've been thinking about this and sharing about this.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: I know I have been.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: There's a couple things with this.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: One spring, as you said, it's often stormy.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: There's temperature fluctuations, there's too much water, not enough water, a freeze.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: It gets hot too quickly.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: And then, and then when we throw in summer, even though it could mean there's a lot of growth, there's also a lot of risk from heat.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: And again, maybe drought.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: So teach us, tell us, what does it look like in our lives to root ourselves so that way when all of these fluctuations are going on, that we can have health and we can still grow and withstand some of the storms or lack of storms in our life.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: So in the summertime, uh, we've had um really bad windstorms here.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: In fact, a few years ago, there was something called a Doratio, D-E-R-E-C-H-O.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: It's a windstorm that just, I mean, it wiped out some fields, but other fields, you would think there's no way that field is gonna survive what happened to it yesterday because the the plants would be just so so bent.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: But by the end, by the end of the season, many of those fields made it.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: And the reason they did is because their root system was so strong.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: The same is true for a plant during drought.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: If it it's the plant is trained to go deeper and deeper and deeper to find water below the surface so that it can survive in seasons of drought.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: And the same is true for us.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Like when we are rooted in Christ and and our, you know, we can we can just withstand storms in a lot.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, all things, all people have storms.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: And if we are have shallow roots, we're gonna fall over and not be able to produce anything.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And then in the same way um as a plant does in a season of drought, we can pull our roots down further in search of living water so that we can we can grow and flourish.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: It just all it says in the Bible to be rooted in him so that we can grow up in him.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: And it's just so foundational to every everything that we're trying to grow, to be rooted in him.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: And that's how we sustain, you know, storms over the years, and that's how we flourish in those wonderful years.
27:11
SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think too about just even like winter winter, winter seasons, right?
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Like you, you before we got on um officially, we were talking about winter seasons.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: That's actually a season where some of the best growth happens.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: And um we learned that on the farm uh for all of the things that have to happen in the winter in order for the fields to to produce well in the spring, summer, and the fall.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: So, like that freezing cycle disrupts like pest cycles and disease.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, we need that in order to like start fresh in the spring.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: And the same is true for us in these winter seasons.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: It seems like there's nothing growing that is just dark and cold and unproductive.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: But when I look back on the winter seasons of my life, not the ones outside, but the winter seasons of my soul, those are the seasons where God has grown me most of all.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Those are the times of trials where I have found him closer than ever before.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And those are the seasons when he has prepared the field of my heart so that it can be planted and flourishing come spring.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: I have mentioned a few times in the conversations, especially this year, about coming out of a winter season or having really been in a sustained winter season in my life in a lot of different ways.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious for you, how would you name the season that you are currently in?
28:41
SPEAKER_01: I know that, you know, kids are growing up, launching in different ways for you.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, the the fields are turning as the seasons turn.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: What would you name your season that you find yourself in?
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's hard because um depending a lot of people, I talk a lot to women about what season they're in.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: And it can be hard to pinpoint a single season because you might feel like you're in a fall season of harvest if you just sent your kids off to college.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: You might feel in a spring season if you've got a new relationship.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, but in general, overall, I was in what I would say a prolonged winter season around the time that my dad passed away.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: My life was consumed by helping take care of dad.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, the grieving that comes after losing someone who you're so close to.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: One day, and it wasn't, it wasn't even in the real spring, it was like in the fall.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And I just determined that I am in spring.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: And I just I just determined it.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is this is what this is this is what I where I'm at now.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm in a spring season.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's not like I manifested it.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't mean that.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't believe in like manifesting things.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just stood in the hope of Christ on that day.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: I remember standing on the driveway saying, I'm in a spring season now.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: And I began to look around with um eyes of optimism and hope.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, Amy, I still feel like I'm in that season.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: It's been a really rich season.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: There's been a lot of change in our lives.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: The girls are off to college.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: One's actually graduated from college, she goes to Cambridge across the pond.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: Our other daughter is going great visit.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Our other daughter is going off to Indonesia to serve full-time in ministry there.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of things that feel a little topsy-turvy and different, but I've just really rooted myself down into the hopefulness of spring.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: And that's felt really good.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Now with actual literal spring upon us, it feels really good.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you for sharing that.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: I know this wasn't a pr presented question ahead of time, but I think you even said something interested, interesting just about declaring the spring.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: And I I would testify to something similar in that the last fall, I started to feel the pinpricks of light after a dark night of the soul.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: And I didn't know that's where I had been until I had a few things come across my path to give me language around it and go, oh, that's that's where I have been, that's what's been going on.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't, I think similar to spring, it wasn't the immediacy of like the light has broken through.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: There is green everywhere.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: Just just as we've talked about in these metaphors, the the physical literal spring is a shoot at a time, it's a sprig at a time, it's a flower at a time, where it there is that um just little signs, but I do think it requires us to partner to see it, to see it and declare it in our own heart and to be able to go, oh, okay, I think this is where I'm going.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: And for me as well, it it shifted my viewpoint instead of looking back behind of the loss and just seeing the loss and the disappointment, the sadness, because I experienced a lot of that over the last several years.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Instead, it helped me shift to go where, as I do in my walks, like, oh, there's a new flower today, and oh, the tulips are up, and oh, you know, this tree is is blooming out.
32:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's an important thing as we're going through these seasons is to shift our gaze as they're coming, and there's goodness in all of them, even the winter, and to be to be seeing that and noticing it and speaking that over our lives.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: So I love that you mentioned that.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you know, after a few rounds of this, we finally learn, and then we hopefully sustain some of what we learn.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: We don't go backwards uh in that way.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so one of the things that I would love uh to hear is in that that you're experiencing spring as you're launching your daughters all over the world, quite literally, for you, what is something in your heart that you're thinking you might be writing about or you've been super excited to share with your community or just talk about?
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Like what's what have you been learning more recently that um you feel is maybe bubbling up, if you will, a spring?
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like in a growing slow way or just in a general way?
33:37
SPEAKER_00: In in a general way.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, I Amy, I do have something, but I can't tell all of it yet.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: I just finished my next book.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: It has been four years since I wrote a full-length trade book, Growing Slow being the last one.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: I had a guided journal in there, but I have a book coming out in April of 2026.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: And a companion Bible study that will come out as well.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I am so excited about this message.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: I'll just give you a little hint.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: We actually kind of talked about it.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: So when it comes out, Amy, I will let you know.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Great until then.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: I just have to be like so, I don't mean to be all suspenseful, but I can't help but hey, that's the reality.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited about this next book.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: So that's definitely a spring in my heart right now.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for sharing that with us.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: I think that's worthwhile.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: And to just say, again, I always love to just give the nod to the author book world for those who desire or those who love books, because it people who don't do this have no idea how long these things take and how hard and the process.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I love that we got a little sneak peek a year ahead, and we'll be looking and watching and seeing what other what other things spring up over the next year as you tease out what the Lord has been showing you.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: That's really exciting.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: That's uh that's really fun.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: All right.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: So, what is another last tip here?
35:10
SPEAKER_01: I have two more last questions, and that is someone who is walking through that slow growth season, maybe they maybe feel a as maybe a shoot of light in their dark winter, or they're just maybe beginning to see signs of life.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: How can they embrace the slowness instead of resisting it?
35:34
SPEAKER_01: What tip or encouragement would you give to them right now and just a practical way to lean into the slow instead of trying so hard to speed it up?
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Because we do want that.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: When we start seeing good things and we start seeing green, we're like, come on more.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: I want the, I want the heat, I want the warmth, I'm tired of the cold, I don't want to have to put my gloves back on again.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: So help us just go with this season of really evolving in our lives.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: When I look back on my life, and I'll bet you would agree in your life too, Amy.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: When I look back, I see that the most beautiful things in my life took the longest to grow.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: And um that helps me to hold on and trust God for anything that I happen to be growing right now.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: So the both most beautiful things in my life have been my marriage, my kids, um, building community over time.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: And it didn't, I mean, I was lonely for a long time when we moved back to the farm.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: But all of these things took time to grow, and because of that slow growth, because roots were put down and I and God watered and and took care of me throughout, I feel like I'm seeing the fruit of it.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I wish there were a different way.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that I wish that things would come sooner.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: It says in Ecclesiastes 3, 1 through 11.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, 3, 1 through 8 is like there's a time for to die and a time to be born, a time to mourn, a time to laugh, a time to dance, all of these things.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: So obviously, I I would rather live in the times of joy and dancing and laughing.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't want God to grow me through the weeping and the sorrow and the breaking and those things in Ecclesiastes 1 through 8.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: But it comes around to Ecclesiastes 1-11 where it says that God is making everything beautiful in its time, not in a hurry.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't say he's he's making everything beautiful in a rush, instead, he's making everything beautiful in its time.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: And part of that is that we go through these seasons, and some of those seasons are hard and they look like the cold of winter, and some of those seasons are beautiful, like a lush summer day.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: But no matter what which kind of day we're having or season we're having, God is truly making everything beautiful in its time.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: That is beautiful, definitely quotable.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: I imagine that my friends who are listening are, if they're moving, they're gonna come back and listen and write some of this down.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: And if they're sitting, they're gonna grab their pen and paper.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, with that, as we watch the spring book unveiling, I know that you'll probably eventually here get to start dropping some teasers and what you've been working on.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: So, where can we learn more?
38:48
SPEAKER_01: How can we find out more about this work?
38:50
SPEAKER_01: And do you have any time frames when we're gonna get to know more?
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I love to connect with people on both Facebook and Instagram.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm Jennifer Dukesley in both places, and my website is jenniferdukeslee.com and you can sign up for my email.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: And usually I announce big news there right away, but eventually it makes its way to social media.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: I think that we're almost at a cover.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Um so when my cover is official and when it goes out on on Amazon, probably in late June, early July, that's when I'll start to talk about it a little bit more.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, that will be here before you know it.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: And ironically, that will be when we're talking about summer.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: So um, because that will be happening on our calendars as the page turns and all of that.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, this has been wonderful.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate just getting the opportunity to talk to you, hear some more stories, to be able to celebrate this work again.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think even not realizing that it's been four years, I think there's something to be said about how that even just highlights the idea of growing slow and the beauty of that is that we create something that is not the viral, sensational over, you know, five minute thing, where it's just here and gone the next.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: Whereas the message of growing slow is seasonal, it's long-lasting, it's classic and something that we need to be invited to again and again and again.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for pinning the words.
40:28
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for encouraging us in this moment, in this hour.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'm really excited to see what else comes about here in these next few months.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, and thanks for having me.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: It was great.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, friend, I hope that this conversation with Jennifer invited you to breathe a little deeper, to trust God's slower work in your life, and to believe that slow doesn't mean stuck or lack of life.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: It just often means that it's time for your roots to grow deep.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Over time, your growth may not be flashy, but it can be fruitful.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: And the work you're doing in secret and stillness and surrender, that is the kind of growth that lasts.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: If you're feeling stirred, but you're not sure of your next step, I would love to walk alongside you.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: So book that clarity call that I mentioned earlier, and together we can discern the season that you're in and the rhythms that will help you grow, not grind.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: I pray that this conversation felt like an invitation to pause and go a little bit slower and connect deeply with those that you love.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, we're all broken, we're all blowing it, but it's the brave one that does something about it.