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Are we sending troops to Ukraine? · The Front

0:03
Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm kristin amiot.
0:06
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, March sixth, twenty twenty five. Brisbane residents will
0:13
Speaker 1: bear the branch of cyclone Alfred's one hundred and fifty
0:16
Speaker 1: five kilometer per hour winds, rain and flooding on Friday,
0:19
Speaker 1: when the storm is expected to lash the Queensland capital
0:22
Speaker 1: for twelve hours. For all the latest on the Category
0:25
Speaker 1: two storm, visit the Australian dot com dot AU. Defense
0:32
Speaker 1: Minister Richard Miles says he's absolutely confident US President Donald
0:36
Speaker 1: Trump will follow through on his support of the historic
0:39
Speaker 1: August Defense Pact between Australia, the United States and the
0:43
Speaker 1: United Kingdom. Bard South Australian Premier Peter Malanowskis says questions
0:48
Speaker 1: about the White House's commitment are starting to wear thin.
0:52
Speaker 1: In a wide ranging conversation at the Defending Australia conference
0:55
Speaker 1: in Adelaide on Wednesday, co hosted by The Australian and
0:59
Speaker 1: our colleagues The Advertiser, the Defense Minister fielded questions about
1:03
Speaker 1: aucust defense spending and those warships of the Australian coast.
1:08
Speaker 1: In today's episode we're bringing you parts of that fascinating
1:11
Speaker 1: conversation with Richard Miles and Shadow Minister for Defense Andrew Hasty.
1:20
Speaker 2: Minister is going to ask do you trust Donald Trump
1:24
Speaker 2: when it comes for his support for aucas.
1:27
Speaker 1: That's The Australian's chief international correspondent Cameron Stewart chatting with
1:32
Speaker 1: Defense Minister Richard Miles in Adelaide on Wednesday.
1:36
Speaker 3: I do, and I actually have a sense of confidence
1:39
Speaker 3: about where we can take the alliance under the Trump
1:43
Speaker 3: administration and the alignment of effort in terms of the
1:46
Speaker 3: focus that we're bringing to peer in terms of our
1:49
Speaker 3: own security, but what the United States is doing in
1:51
Speaker 3: terms of its focus on the hopes.
1:54
Speaker 1: South Australian Premier Peter malinowskis, who'd broken ground on a
1:57
Speaker 1: new shipbuilding academy that'll produce the graduates who'll build August
2:01
Speaker 1: submarines earlier on Wednesday, alongside the Defense Minister, jumped in,
2:06
Speaker 1: can I ask a question?
2:07
Speaker 4: I was thinking about this today after our press conference.
2:09
Speaker 5: Every single time Richard or I have stood up announcing
2:13
Speaker 5: some progress milestone in terms of UCUS or any other
2:16
Speaker 5: time on radio and South Australia, an event has occurred
2:18
Speaker 5: where aucust becomes a tom of conversation.
2:20
Speaker 4: I get asked that question.
2:22
Speaker 5: I'm not too sure what more needs to be done
2:25
Speaker 5: before those questions stop. All three countries have gone through
2:29
Speaker 5: a change in administration or government from one political party
2:33
Speaker 5: to the other, and not one word has been added
2:36
Speaker 5: by any Prime minister, any defense minister, or a defense secretary,
2:39
Speaker 5: or the US president of either political persuasion that has
2:43
Speaker 5: actually said anything on the record that would suggest that
2:46
Speaker 5: ORCUS is in.
2:47
Speaker 4: An ongoing commitment.
2:48
Speaker 5: And yet, while I can understand there's a desire to
2:53
Speaker 5: ask the question given that things can change quickly, evidently,
2:57
Speaker 5: nonetheless there's been no suggestion that this is going to
2:59
Speaker 5: be an issue.
2:59
Speaker 4: Sure.
3:00
Speaker 2: Premier Kolby today spoke about the fact that he thought
3:03
Speaker 2: it was great to sell Virginia class submarines to Australia,
3:07
Speaker 2: but he said if the production of those submarines is
3:09
Speaker 2: not fast enough, that might be a problem for the US.
3:12
Speaker 2: That comes to a central question to trust in future
3:15
Speaker 2: administrations to actually sell those submarines if their Virginia roll
3:19
Speaker 2: out is not fast enough.
3:20
Speaker 6: Yeah.
3:21
Speaker 3: I can understand those comments, but in a sense, let's
3:23
Speaker 3: think that through it is really I think the beauty
3:26
Speaker 3: of the Optimal Pathway that we announced in March of
3:29
Speaker 3: twenty three, that there really is something in it for
3:32
Speaker 3: all three countries. We are playing a very significant role
3:36
Speaker 3: now in increasing the production rate and the sustainment rate
3:40
Speaker 3: of Virginia class submarines in America. For America, that's something
3:43
Speaker 3: that they acknowledge. That is something which is utterly different
3:46
Speaker 3: to any other relationship they have with literally any other
3:49
Speaker 3: country when it comes to their bilateral defense relationships. The
3:53
Speaker 3: strategic benefit to the United States of ORCUS is really
3:57
Speaker 3: understood by the United States. And if the production rates
4:01
Speaker 3: don't increase in relation to Virginia's, as both Pete and
4:06
Speaker 3: I were saying to each other, there's a whole lot
4:07
Speaker 3: of issues that America faces in that moment, But what
4:10
Speaker 3: ORCUS is about is ensuring that we jointly succeed on
4:14
Speaker 3: that effort. It is in Australia's interest that America has
4:17
Speaker 3: a greater availability of Virginia class submarines. We need America
4:22
Speaker 3: to be the most capable they can be, and America
4:25
Speaker 3: needs us to be the most capable we can be.
4:27
Speaker 3: And they're fundamentally I think you use the word trust,
4:30
Speaker 3: trust is actually at the heart of the relationship. And
4:34
Speaker 3: to Pelee's point, I mean we do keep getting asked
4:37
Speaker 3: those questions. I get that we will get those questions.
4:40
Speaker 3: It is a lot of money, it goes over a
4:41
Speaker 3: long period of time. But what I'm really confident about
4:44
Speaker 3: is we'll answer those questions.
4:46
Speaker 4: That means something.
4:47
Speaker 3: What means much more is the actions that we put
4:50
Speaker 3: into place, and that is what's occurring.
4:55
Speaker 1: In the hours before his defense Minister sat down to
4:58
Speaker 1: chat with cam Stewart, Anthony Albanizi was moving to reassure Australians.
5:03
Speaker 1: The Royal Australian Navy was keeping close tabs on a
5:06
Speaker 1: flotilla of Chinese warships currently off the coast of Wa.
5:10
Speaker 5: The Chinese vessels are currently, as of a very short
5:14
Speaker 5: while ago, five.
5:15
Speaker 2: Hundred and ninety three kilometers southwest of Adelaide.
5:20
Speaker 1: The trio of ships entered international waters between Australia and
5:23
Speaker 1: New Zealand on Friday, where they conducted a series of
5:26
Speaker 1: live fire exercises that sent air traffic control into disarray.
5:31
Speaker 6: It, of course, last Friday, caused chaos in the air
5:35
Speaker 6: between New Zealand and Australia, forcing the diversion of forty
5:40
Speaker 6: nine flights when it began a live fire exercise.
5:45
Speaker 1: The Chinese vessels have been circumnavigating Australia in the day since,
5:49
Speaker 1: shadowed by Australian Navy ships.
5:52
Speaker 7: In seas never previously sailed by the Chinese Navy. The
5:56
Speaker 7: warships are being shadowed by HMAS Stewart, a New Zealand
6:00
Speaker 7: frigate to Kaha. The federal government believes China not only
6:04
Speaker 7: wants to show its military reach, but normalize its presence
6:08
Speaker 7: in the region.
6:09
Speaker 1: The appearance of the ships called the readiness of Australia's
6:12
Speaker 1: defense force into question and prompted a diplomatic war of words,
6:17
Speaker 1: with leaders from Australia and New Zealand claiming China should
6:20
Speaker 1: have given both nations a heads up before commencing the exercise.
6:25
Speaker 1: In Adelaide on Wednesday.
6:27
Speaker 4: It was the question on everybody's lips, how often have
6:31
Speaker 4: we seen that before?
6:32
Speaker 3: We've seen Chinese warships in the vicinity of Australia before.
6:36
Speaker 3: I would describe it as an unusual event. It's not
6:39
Speaker 3: a completely unprecedented event, though. When it became clear that
6:44
Speaker 3: a task group was coming to Australia, we in an
6:49
Speaker 3: unprecedented way made a decision and it was very much
6:53
Speaker 3: a direction of mine to make sure that we were
6:55
Speaker 3: surveiling this to the greatest possible extent. We did that,
6:59
Speaker 3: and I did that because it appeared to me at
7:01
Speaker 3: the outset that there was the prospect of this Task
7:03
Speaker 3: Group being in the vicinity of Australia for some time.
7:07
Speaker 3: We needed to do two things, which is what we
7:09
Speaker 3: have done. The first was to ensure that the Task
7:12
Speaker 3: Group complied with international law at all times, and I'm
7:15
Speaker 3: advised that they have and that is important to understand.
7:18
Speaker 3: And secondly, to get a clear understanding of what the
7:21
Speaker 3: Task Group is trying to achieve in its mission by
7:23
Speaker 3: looking at exactly where it goes, it's configurations, the training
7:26
Speaker 3: and the activities that it's undertaken. And we've had a
7:29
Speaker 3: close eye on all of that, which of course is
7:31
Speaker 3: our right. I'd make this point as well, though international
7:35
Speaker 3: law has to be our touchstone here. It has to
7:37
Speaker 3: be our touchstone because there is much more often Australian
7:41
Speaker 3: Navy ships in the vicinity of China than there are
7:45
Speaker 3: Chinese Navy ships in the vicinity of it. We do
7:47
Speaker 3: live firing exercises that we do live firing exercises on
7:51
Speaker 3: the high seas, which is what China did. But we
7:54
Speaker 3: also were not happy about the notice that was given
7:57
Speaker 3: by the Chinese Navy in that particular event, and we
7:59
Speaker 3: made it our concerns known to China, both in Canberra
8:02
Speaker 3: and Beijing and at the level of our foreign ministers.
8:05
Speaker 3: But I come back to the point. We are much
8:07
Speaker 3: more present in the vicinity of China than China is
8:10
Speaker 3: in the vicinity of Austina, and that's not gratuitous. That's
8:12
Speaker 3: for a reason because that's where our trading routes are
8:15
Speaker 3: and it's really important that we are in a position
8:17
Speaker 3: to continue to assert freedm of navigation in and around
8:21
Speaker 3: our trading routes.
8:22
Speaker 4: For that to occur.
8:23
Speaker 3: To continue, international law has to be our touchstone and
8:27
Speaker 3: our bed rock. We're taking this very seriously. We've surveilled
8:30
Speaker 3: this in a way that was not done previously under
8:32
Speaker 3: the former government. But equally, we're not breathlessly trying to
8:35
Speaker 3: hand this up either. And it's really important that we
8:38
Speaker 3: observe the fact that they have been maintaining their obligations
8:42
Speaker 3: in respect of the international law, and that's relevant in
8:44
Speaker 3: the context of what we seek to do in the
8:46
Speaker 3: proximity of China.
8:47
Speaker 4: And that's fair enough.
8:48
Speaker 2: Sure, but you've seen what they were doing, and I
8:50
Speaker 2: think you said a couple of days ago, you're trying
8:52
Speaker 2: to find out a bit more about exactly what they
8:54
Speaker 2: were doing. But is it cricket? Are they trying to
8:57
Speaker 2: send a message? Is this just bogs navy drills?
9:01
Speaker 4: Look, I'm not saying that.
9:02
Speaker 3: I think it is really important to conduct this surveillance
9:06
Speaker 3: to properly understand exactly what they were doing, what they
9:10
Speaker 3: were practicing, and I think from there to understand what message,
9:14
Speaker 3: if any, is being sent to us. And I'm not
9:16
Speaker 3: going to leap into that and speculate about that before
9:19
Speaker 3: we get the proper assessments coming through in respect of
9:22
Speaker 3: what we have observed, not for a moment, And I
9:26
Speaker 3: don't want to be seen in suggesting that this is standard.
9:29
Speaker 3: That is not my position. It is the case that
9:31
Speaker 3: they've complied with international law. We're not going to fall
9:34
Speaker 3: into the trap of breathlessly complaining about activities which are
9:38
Speaker 3: in compliance with international law, which would lead us to
9:41
Speaker 3: being in a compromised position in terms of what we
9:43
Speaker 3: seek to do within the vicinity of China. That said,
9:47
Speaker 3: we are clearly going to observe this really carefully, which
9:49
Speaker 3: we have been doing to understand exactly what's going on
9:53
Speaker 3: and to understand exactly what was being practiced and what
9:56
Speaker 3: messages are being sent. And I'm not all sanguine about
9:59
Speaker 3: all that.
10:02
Speaker 1: In a surprise statement on Tuesday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanizi
10:06
Speaker 1: said he's open to sending Australian troops to Ukraine in
10:09
Speaker 1: a peacekeeping capacity. It followed a fiery White House exchange
10:13
Speaker 1: between Ukrainian President Voladimir Zelenski and US Vice President jd
10:18
Speaker 1: Vance that flipped everyone's understanding of the Russia Ukraine War
10:22
Speaker 1: on its head.
10:23
Speaker 4: What kind of diplomacy? Ggus became aboved.
10:26
Speaker 7: What do you mean?
10:29
Speaker 8: I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to
10:31
Speaker 8: end the destruction of your country as but President, mister president,
10:34
Speaker 8: with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come
10:36
Speaker 8: to the Oval Office to try to litigate this in
10:38
Speaker 8: front of the American.
10:39
Speaker 1: Media right now, you guys in Adelaide on Wednesday, Defense
10:42
Speaker 1: Minister Richard Miles said, comparing Australia's reluctance to send boats
10:46
Speaker 1: to the Red Sea during a period of heightened attacks
10:48
Speaker 1: on commercial shipping vessels in late twenty twenty three. Isn't
10:52
Speaker 1: exactly comparing apples with apples.
10:55
Speaker 3: I think we need to be clear about exactly what
10:58
Speaker 3: America asked. We are folk and it is part of
11:01
Speaker 3: what comes out of the Defense Strategic Review and is
11:04
Speaker 3: now in the national defense strategy. We are very much
11:06
Speaker 3: focused on the Indo Pacific. We are focused on our
11:09
Speaker 3: strategic task, and that is to build a defense force
11:13
Speaker 3: which can resist coercion from any potential adversary. Now we
11:18
Speaker 3: see that what is happening in Ukraine is relevant to that.
11:22
Speaker 3: It's relevant to that because the global rules based order
11:26
Speaker 3: that is so central to our national interests as an
11:29
Speaker 3: island trading nation where there's a physical manifestation and that's
11:33
Speaker 3: our sea lines of communication, freedom navigation goes directly to
11:36
Speaker 3: our national prosperity where all of that is under pressure
11:40
Speaker 3: in our region and all of that is on trial
11:42
Speaker 3: in Ukraine.
11:43
Speaker 4: Now.
11:44
Speaker 3: We have been supporting Ukraine from the get go and
11:47
Speaker 3: we will continue to support Ukraine. Right now, there are
11:51
Speaker 3: Australian personnel in Britain who are involved in the training
11:55
Speaker 3: of new recruits to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. So we
11:57
Speaker 3: actually have Australian men and women committed right now. The
12:03
Speaker 3: only point we've made is that as we listen to
12:06
Speaker 3: our partners, which over the last three years has been
12:08
Speaker 3: the United States, but our partners in Europe, including the
12:10
Speaker 3: United Kingdom, including Ukraine itself, when they have asked for support,
12:14
Speaker 3: we have considered that and worked out how we can
12:16
Speaker 3: do it. And if there is a request of this kind,
12:18
Speaker 3: we'll do the same. We'll consider it and work out
12:21
Speaker 3: if we can make a contribution.
12:22
Speaker 2: And on that line, if the US military aid to
12:25
Speaker 2: Ukraine continues to be frozen, would that be a reason
12:29
Speaker 2: for Australia to consider an increase of military aid to Ukraine.
12:33
Speaker 3: I think the fundamental answer here is we will continue
12:35
Speaker 3: to support Ukraine for as long as it takes for
12:38
Speaker 3: Ukraine to resolve this conflict on its terms. And again,
12:42
Speaker 3: it's an understandable question that's been consistently asked of me
12:45
Speaker 3: during the last three years, and we have consistently been
12:48
Speaker 3: announcing packages of support for Ukraine. Will continue to go
12:52
Speaker 3: down this path, and as requests are made of us
12:55
Speaker 3: by Ukraine itself, by our partners who are supporting Ukraine,
12:58
Speaker 3: will consider them.
13:02
Speaker 1: Coming up, Shadow Minister for Defense Andrew Hasty sits down
13:05
Speaker 1: with The Australian's Foreign Affairs and Defense correspondent Ben Packham
13:23
Speaker 1: on Wednesday. Donald Trump's pick for a top job at
13:26
Speaker 1: the US Department of Defense put the pressure on Australia
13:29
Speaker 1: to ratchet up defense spending. Elbridge Colby noted Australia is
13:33
Speaker 1: currently well below the three percent level of GDP advocated
13:37
Speaker 1: for by NATO, despite our relative proximity to China. Defense
13:42
Speaker 1: Minister Richard Miles said Labor is, if re elected, willing
13:46
Speaker 1: to engage with the US on defense spending.
13:49
Speaker 3: Firstly, we have increased defense spending, as you said, Cam,
13:52
Speaker 3: under our government. It's an additional fifty billion dollars over
13:55
Speaker 3: the decade, which is now actually in the budget. And
13:58
Speaker 3: to contextualize, that's the big increase in defense spending in
14:02
Speaker 3: our peacetime history. So I understand very much the position
14:06
Speaker 3: that America is taking. I think it is completely reasonable
14:09
Speaker 3: that America is asking its friends and allies around.
14:12
Speaker 4: The world to do more. We're totally willing.
14:14
Speaker 3: To engage in that conversation with the United States, which
14:17
Speaker 3: we've already started.
14:19
Speaker 1: Males opposition counterpart Andrew Hasty told Ben Packham the coalition
14:23
Speaker 1: will pony up if they're elected.
14:25
Speaker 9: Look, we've already indicated very publicly that we will increase
14:28
Speaker 9: defense expenditure. We gave a hint of that over the
14:31
Speaker 9: weekend with the additional three billion dollars committed towards the
14:34
Speaker 9: acquisition of the fourth squadron of F thirty five's but
14:37
Speaker 9: will announce our full costings and our budgetary plan in
14:41
Speaker 9: Duke Horse closer to the election.
14:42
Speaker 10: A whole one percent. That's quite a big leap. Where
14:46
Speaker 10: does the money come from? Do you think to get
14:48
Speaker 10: the defense budget up to that sort of a level.
14:50
Speaker 9: That's a good question, and I'm sure the Deputy Prime
14:52
Speaker 9: minister's working that through as well, because it's a message
14:55
Speaker 9: to Australia from Bridge Colby, who's going to take a
14:57
Speaker 9: very central part in the Trump administration.
15:00
Speaker 4: So we've got our plan. We're going to.
15:02
Speaker 9: Announce that in due course and you won't be getting
15:04
Speaker 9: a scoop here, Ben, Sorry to say.
15:06
Speaker 10: The personnel crisis the defense is facing, it's one of
15:09
Speaker 10: the biggest challenges facing the ADF and it could seriously
15:13
Speaker 10: limit our capability ambitions. This isn't a new thing. It
15:16
Speaker 10: was a problem under the former government too. What would
15:20
Speaker 10: the Coalition do differently to get more Australians into uniform.
15:25
Speaker 10: Is it about offering more money, lowering standards? What's the plan?
15:30
Speaker 4: I think there's a range of things.
15:32
Speaker 9: We are having a recruiting crisis and last year ninety
15:36
Speaker 9: percent of ADF applicants withdrew their application from defense. I
15:40
Speaker 9: think we need to challenge this generation of Australians to
15:44
Speaker 9: service fairly old school values of serving your country, defending
15:48
Speaker 9: your country, being part of this great Anzac tradition which
15:51
Speaker 9: has been handed down to us.
15:52
Speaker 4: I think that's really important.
15:54
Speaker 9: And the point I'm making is political leadership matters here
15:56
Speaker 9: and if we're not getting a signal from the government
15:59
Speaker 9: that service in the is important. It's a really great
16:02
Speaker 9: opportunity to grow as a person, and of course there
16:05
Speaker 9: are benefits as well. But whenever he ad is about
16:07
Speaker 9: self actualization rather than service, if it's not a challenge
16:10
Speaker 9: given to these young people, they're not going to take
16:12
Speaker 9: it up. I also think there's big problems within recruiting itself.
16:15
Speaker 9: Administrative bungles, people being basically eliminated because of previous medical records,
16:20
Speaker 9: which I think are quite trivial. So there's a risk
16:23
Speaker 9: aversion within the actual contractors who run recruiting, and I
16:27
Speaker 9: think we should have more uniforms against that problem, just
16:29
Speaker 9: like the Marine Corps do. They put their best officers
16:31
Speaker 9: and they're best enlisted against the problem. They give them
16:33
Speaker 9: targets and it's a part of progression for them in
16:36
Speaker 9: their careers.
16:38
Speaker 10: You've been quite direct in your attacks on Anthony Albanezi
16:42
Speaker 10: and Richard Miles, accusing them of weak leadership. You said
16:45
Speaker 10: it recently in relation to the Chinese warships. How do
16:49
Speaker 10: you think the government has been weak and what would
16:53
Speaker 10: do you do differently on defense?
16:55
Speaker 9: I think the Prime Minister failed to stand up for
16:56
Speaker 9: the national interest and he failed to insist on mutual respect. Now,
17:00
Speaker 9: the Deputy Prime Minister said that we often do patrols
17:03
Speaker 9: up in waters that are contested under international law as
17:07
Speaker 9: part of multilateral formations or groupings, and my understanding is
17:11
Speaker 9: whenever we've done live fire in that context, it's always
17:14
Speaker 9: been deconflicted, controlled and as part of a wider coalition.
17:18
Speaker 9: For example, went not off the coast of China, disrupting
17:21
Speaker 9: their commercial flight path, and so the issue was that
17:24
Speaker 9: we didn't get notice and it disrupted our commercial flight path,
17:27
Speaker 9: and I think the message is quite clear from the
17:30
Speaker 9: Chinese government. They're now a global power with a bluewater navy.
17:34
Speaker 9: They're projecting deep into our waters. And this happened at
17:36
Speaker 9: the same time, of course, that Donald Trump was resetting
17:40
Speaker 9: relationships in Europe with NATO, and I think it was
17:43
Speaker 9: a test for US. There's a reason why they sailed
17:45
Speaker 9: past the Philippines through the Arafuracy, the coral Seed, down
17:49
Speaker 9: past Sydney, and they've circumnavigated the country as well.
17:52
Speaker 4: So I think there's a.
17:53
Speaker 9: Message there, and I think the average person on the
17:57
Speaker 9: street with a PhD in Life got the message pretty
18:00
Speaker 9: and clear.
18:02
Speaker 10: Is it strange to you that Anthony ALBINIZI would be
18:05
Speaker 10: open to sending troops to Ukraine but not Peter Dutton.
18:09
Speaker 10: Why shouldn't we back our support for Kiev with boots
18:12
Speaker 10: on the ground.
18:13
Speaker 9: Look, I think there's been no formal request as I
18:16
Speaker 9: understand it, and this would be a decision for the
18:18
Speaker 9: Prime Minister and the National Security Committee of Cabinet, and
18:21
Speaker 9: so there's a lot to play out yet in the negotiations,
18:24
Speaker 9: which reached an inflection point on the weekend in the
18:27
Speaker 9: White House. And so I think this is a decision
18:30
Speaker 9: for a government of the day when a request comes forward.
18:33
Speaker 4: That's not ruling it in or ruling it out. But
18:35
Speaker 4: I just don't think we should rush. I just don't
18:37
Speaker 4: think we should rush to.
18:37
Speaker 9: Commit young Australians to a conflict without a request. And
18:41
Speaker 9: so I think Peter and I are very closely aligned
18:44
Speaker 9: on this.
18:44
Speaker 4: On Orcus.
18:46
Speaker 10: We've seen Donald Trump cozy up to Russia, call Vladimir
18:51
Speaker 10: Zelinsky a dictator and whaka twenty five percent tariff on
18:54
Speaker 10: Canada and Mexico. Do you trust Donald Trump to do
19:00
Speaker 10: what he says? And in your view, is UCAS a
19:03
Speaker 10: lock under his leadership?
19:05
Speaker 4: Look, I think UCUS is a lock under his leadership.
19:07
Speaker 9: But I think Donald Trump as a president studies your
19:10
Speaker 9: hand very closely. And I think it's incumbent upon the
19:15
Speaker 9: Prime Minister to demonstrate the strong hand in future negotiations.
19:19
Speaker 4: And I think Prime Minister is flat flooded.
19:21
Speaker 9: He's not agile, and he should have gone already to
19:24
Speaker 9: meet with Donald Trump and to.
19:26
Speaker 4: Establish that relationship. We've got a great hand.
19:28
Speaker 9: We've got strategic depth here, which is what we're going
19:31
Speaker 9: to deliver through Aucus. We're already delivering it through Darwin
19:34
Speaker 9: and Alice Springs and the joint facilities that we have there.
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Speaker 4: And of course we have an abundance of.
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Speaker 9: Rare earths and critical minerals which will be essential for
19:42
Speaker 9: military and space applications going forward.
19:45
Speaker 10: So we need to hume bearing gifts, really.
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Speaker 9: Not come bearing gifts, stake our position and argue it
19:52
Speaker 9: a bit.
19:52
Speaker 4: A hip and shoulder in the Oval Office.
19:56
Speaker 9: I think in any sort of negotiation you need strength.
20:06
Speaker 1: Ben Packham is the Australian's Foreign Affairs and Defense correspondent
20:10
Speaker 1: and Cameron Stewart is our chief international correspondent. You can
20:14
Speaker 1: read all our teams reporting and analysis right now at
20:16
Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au