Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / Making the Leap: How Tad Nelson Left the DA’s Office to Build His Legal Empire

Transcript

Making the Leap: How Tad Nelson Left the DA’s Office to Build His Legal Empire · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:05
  There is nothing better than giving somebody back their life.
• 0:10
  Nothing's better.
• 0:12
  The Texas based criminal defense attorney with over three decades in the courtroom, from a board accountant and tax law student to trying hundreds of high stakes cases and building a thriving multi practice law firm, TAD is living proof
• 0:27
  that true fulfillment begins where your comfort zone ends.
• 0:32
  This episode is packed with entrepreneurial gold.
• 0:35
  You'll learn how to turn those lost and aimless moments into the rocket fuel for your next big pivot.
• 0:41
  The practical on the ground execution habits that TAD developed to go from rookie prosecutor to trusted top defense lawyer.
• 0:49
  Why?
• 0:49
  Embracing risk and making bold career leaps even when the path isn't clear is essential for massive growth.
• 0:55
  And the business lessons behind transforming a small law office into a 10 person high trust enterprise fueled by reputation, referrals and servant leadership.
• 1:07
  Whether you're in law business or building something from scratch, this conversation is loaded with lessons on resilience, ownership and putting people, especially your clients, at the heart of everything you do.
• 1:19
  If you found value from this content, please like and subscribe.
• 1:24
  All right, Tad Nelson, welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 1:28
  Thanks for having me, Dave.
• 1:29
  Glad to be here.
• 1:30
  Yes, sir.
• 1:31
  We appreciate you taking the time.
• 1:33
  So, Tad, you are a very successful criminal defense attorney from Texas, and you've been doing that for many years.
• 1:42
  But you had a very interesting start to your legal career and a fork in the road that, that caused you to go a complete different direction than when you originally started.
• 1:53
  Can you just talk about how you got started in law and then how you ended up doing, doing what you are now?
• 1:58
  Well, you know, when I was at the University of Texas, I was in an accounting major.
• 2:04
  And I always thought in my head that nothing would be greater than to, you know, to, to go through there, get my CPA and then go on to law school.
• 2:15
  And I really thought I was going to be in like estate planning, financial management, wealth management, that kind of stuff.
• 2:22
  And I really had no desire at that point in my life to be tussling in the courtroom.
• 2:30
  So, you know, I graduated law school, went down to Houston, started working for one of the big probate firms in Houston, and I was at Universe.
• 2:41
  I was getting a master's in tax law from, from University of Houston, and I did that, went through the first semester, got about halfway through the second semester and was just literally losing my mind.
• 2:53
  I mean, wasn't like it was hard work by any stretch, you know, but it wasn't exciting.
• 3:00
  There was, there was nothing.
• 3:02
  Nothing, you know, nothing to, to get up in the morning for nothing.
• 3:06
  Like there was nothing Challenging.
• 3:10
  And, you know, I grew up in Galveston county, which is just south of Houston, and my family was very good friends with the elected DA down there, Mike Carino.
• 3:19
  And he'd always said, you know, when you graduate law school, dad, come on down, work for me.
• 3:22
  You know, work as a assistant criminal district attorney.
• 3:25
  Well, let me tell you.
• 3:26
  So one week I was having a bad week, and it was just, you know, horribly boring.
• 3:30
  And I just got home and, you know, looked at my wife and said, you know, I hate it, you know, and I said, I'm going to call my.
• 3:38
  She goes, do it.
• 3:39
  Knock yourself out.
• 3:40
  I called Mr.
• 3:40
  Greeno up and said, hey, I'm.
• 3:42
  I don't like what I'm doing.
• 3:45
  You know, he says, can you start next week?
• 3:48
  And, you know, I walked into the office the next morning and turned in my two weeks, and two weeks later, I was an assistant DA in Galveston, Texas.
• 3:57
  Never thought about it.
• 3:58
  You know, I was.
• 3:59
  I was one of those people in law school that literally took no interest in criminal law.
• 4:04
  That was the case.
• 4:05
  The course we had to take, you know, every.
• 4:08
  The only reason people took it is because they had to, you know, and I was that person.
• 4:13
  But, you know, I knew I wanted to be in a courtroom.
• 4:16
  I didn't know where I was going to go with that.
• 4:18
  But once I got into it, once I started working in the DA's office, I realized, you know, it was, I mean, literally what I was born to do.
• 4:28
  Wow.
• 4:28
  Okay, so you're an accounting major, you get into tax law, and you're bored out of your mind to the point where you can't do this anymore.
• 4:39
  And, and you'd never thought about doing criminal, criminal law, but you had this offer from the da, and in a moment of true self awareness and just decision, you went for it.
• 4:53
  And once you got into it, as you said, you realize this is what you're born to do.
• 5:00
  So then talk about that experience as far as learning on the job, working for the government as a prosecutor, basically.
• 5:09
  I mean, talk about what that experience was like and what it taught you.
• 5:13
  So when you got there, when you start, you obviously start as a, as a misdemeanor da, which is the lowest rung of the da, you know, workflow chart.
• 5:22
  So, you know, you're down there, you're handling just, you know, a bunch of DWIs, petty thefts, you know, people that assault, you know, their wife, you know, a bunch of different stuff, and you're handling a monster caseload.
• 5:34
  So you're learning a lot of stuff fast.
• 5:36
  You're not really doing anything any good.
• 5:38
  You know, it's, you know, you're kind of a jack of all trades, master of none, you know, and you're doing so much work, but you're really learning.
• 5:46
  And then obviously, as you kind of learn that, then you, then you'll get bounced up to felony.
• 5:51
  Now you're trying some real cases, you're trying murders, you're trying serious drug deals.
• 5:56
  You're, you know, you know, ag robberies, you know, aggravated robberies, stuff like that, sex crimes.
• 6:05
  And once you get into that level, then, then it gets very serious.
• 6:09
  And your caseload is still huge there, but not as huge as misdemeanor.
• 6:13
  And, you know, as a da, you're in trial all the time, you know, so you get used to, you know, about every other, every third week, you're, you're talking to a jury, you know, you're picking a jury.
• 6:24
  In Texas, we have, we have jury punishment down here in jury trials.
• 6:28
  So, you know, every Monday or every other Monday, you're sitting in front of a panel of 60 to 90 jurors trying to get it down to 12 so you can try your case.
• 6:38
  And you're doing that, you know, you, you know, you do that every other week for a couple years.
• 6:42
  You know, you can get pretty seasoned in a courtroom.
• 6:46
  Okay, all right, so great on the job training as far as learning the law, learning criminal law, how it works, all the different aspects of it, and then at one point you make the, the switch to become a
• 6:59
  criminal defense attorney.
• 7:00
  Talk about that decision and why you did it.
• 7:03
  Well, I mean, the ultimate reality is if you want to have a family and what have you, it's a great training ground.
• 7:13
  And it's always kind of understood, or at least at most offices, that when you go there, because some of the better lawyers have opportunities, you know, to get out of the DA's office quicker.
• 7:24
  But there's always been kind of an unstated rule that when you sign up for the DA's office, you kind of promise to give them three years.
• 7:34
  You know, it's just, that's the least way.
• 7:36
  It was down in Galveston, and I left right at the three year mark, and, and I left because I wanted to do my own thing.
• 7:43
  I wanted, I wanted to go out, have my own, you know, you know, have my own law firm.
• 7:49
  And I wanted to make more money.
• 7:51
  I mean, you know, you, you know, to have, you have more opportunities, you know, owning your own business than you do, you know, working as, working for the government.
• 8:02
  Okay, so you make the leap.
• 8:04
  You have this ambition to have your own company.
• 8:06
  You, you get the great training and you do your like the unwritten rule of three years.
• 8:11
  So you do your three years and then you make, you make the leap to open up your own firm.
• 8:15
  And I mean, talk about the early days there.
• 8:18
  What was that like when you were finally on your own with your own company?
• 8:23
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• 9:12
  I made the decision so I had maybe a month ago as a district attorney and I can remember being, you know, pretty scared, you know, and talking to other people that had gone out, you know, in the last
• 9:23
  couple, three, four, five years.
• 9:25
  And I was, you know, I had a figure in my head and I was like, man, if I can just make this a month, you know, I can, you know, I can pay my bills and what have you
• 9:32
  and my family and my wife and I can live in the house.
• 9:36
  And it was very nerve wracking, you know, leading up to it.
• 9:40
  But within a week, you know, within a week just seeing how things were going to work out, I was totally, totally okay with it.
• 9:47
  Things were going to work out.
• 9:49
  You know, I realized it pretty quick that I was in the right spot.
• 9:53
  So despite it being nerve wracking, you know, at least the finances that got taken care of pretty quick.
• 10:00
  Then the second thing that I didn't really anticipate, Dave, that almost hit me right after that.
• 10:06
  Then you realize, oh my God, I've got responsibility now.
• 10:12
  Not to my family, but to these people that are coming to me to handing me their money to, to make their life better, you know, they're putting their trust in me to help get them through the system.
• 10:24
  And right off the bat, you know, very, very early on my switch, I got some fairly big cases in the sense of some, some sex crime cases.
• 10:35
  And I think within a year it was maybe, or maybe within two years I had a friend of, of the family who, who Got me in on a murder case.
• 10:46
  And, you know, so I was trying some big stuff right off the bat.
• 10:50
  And, you know, that.
• 10:51
  That got.
• 10:52
  I.
• 10:52
  I was surprised at how stressful that was, you know, because as a prosecutor, I knew, hey, my job was just dot my eyes, cross my T's, you know, do my job, and good things would happen.
• 11:04
  You know, that's how you're always led to.
• 11:06
  I'm on the white horse, I'm wearing the white hat.
• 11:09
  It should all go my way.
• 11:10
  But the minute you start defending people, I mean, the pressure is different, you know, And I've kind of learned, and, you know, at least from talking to other defense lawyers, the bottom line is, you know, a client, too,
• 11:23
  they're all nervous when they're in trial.
• 11:25
  But if your lawyer's not as nervous as you, you don't have a very good lawyer.
• 11:28
  If your lawyer doesn't care enough to be losing sleep during your trial, he, you know, he's not the one for you.
• 11:37
  Okay.
• 11:37
  All right.
• 11:38
  So initially you were worried about the finances.
• 11:41
  It sounds like you got some.
• 11:43
  Some big cases pretty quick, which took care of that.
• 11:45
  But then it sounds like you didn't see that coming as far as the pressure and how.
• 11:52
  How, I guess indebted to these.
• 11:55
  These clients of yours in terms of.
• 11:58
  They're putting their trust in you, they're paying you to basically secure their freedom, really, with.
• 12:06
  When they're charged with these serious crimes.
• 12:08
  And you didn't see that coming in terms of the toll it was going to take on you and the pressure that you were going to feel?
• 12:13
  Absolutely, I did not see it coming.
• 12:15
  I was.
• 12:15
  I literally, you know, when I realized that I was taken back, I was taken aback by it.
• 12:22
  Okay.
• 12:23
  And so, I mean, how did you.
• 12:25
  How did you deal with that?
• 12:28
  Well, you know, ultimately, I liked what I was doing.
• 12:32
  You know, I enjoyed.
• 12:34
  I enjoyed being a trial lawyer.
• 12:35
  I enjoyed being a criminal defense lawyer.
• 12:38
  I liked carrying people's water, you know, because a lot of the clients that you have, I mean, they don't have anybody.
• 12:45
  There's nobody, you know, their family's already mad at them, you know, their wives, you know, whatever.
• 12:50
  People have given up on them.
• 12:51
  And sometimes, you know, you're all they have.
• 12:54
  And at some point, you know, once you become okay with it, because, you know, it does.
• 13:02
  It does take some getting used to yourself, you know, to really realize that, you know, with these people who.
• 13:09
  It's so easy to look at somebody charged with a serious crime and think they're a bad person and, like, we were talking about, you know, I were talking about, you know, before we started, you know, even when you
• 13:20
  go to jury trial, you know, if you're standing next to somebody that's accused of touching a child, which, you know, know, I, I agree it's the worst thing somebody can do other than murder somebody, but they almost.
• 13:31
  You're guilty by association.
• 13:34
  You know, there was a lot of things like that that I didn't really see coming.
• 13:38
  You know, for one, the stress of representing these people and having somebody's life in your hands, and then also the association that because you're representing these people, you're a bad person as well.
• 13:50
  You know, I didn't see that coming either, Dave.
• 13:53
  Yeah, and that.
• 13:53
  That's a great point, too, because especially today, right, it's so easy for people to be convicted in the court of public opinion, right?
• 14:03
  When a serious accusation is made, you know, the media, who just wants clicks and views and attention, just piles on, you know, and people automatically assume they're getting, you know, celebrities, for instance, they lose their sponsorships, they may
• 14:18
  lose their job, they get, you know, know, whatever, right?
• 14:21
  And they're.
• 14:21
  They're already basically considered guilty.
• 14:23
  And then here you are standing along with them through that, that.
• 14:28
  That whole ordeal until there, there's finality to it.
• 14:32
  And, you know, something else, too, right?
• 14:34
  Like, often people, like, they look at the attorney in terms of, like, where's.
• 14:40
  Where's their, their conscience at?
• 14:41
  Like, if, you know, if this person is assumed guilty, how can you represent them and try to basically get them acquitted, even though everyone says they did it, or that they're convicted in the court of opinion, public opinion.
• 14:54
  What's that been like for you?
• 14:57
  You know, that's the one thing that, you know, I, I never really had a huge problem with that because, you know, from going through everything and learning the law and actually really realizing, once I started working for Mr.
• 15:12
  Reno, that criminal law was a really good fit for me.
• 15:16
  And once I realized that, I also believed in our system.
• 15:20
  I totally think we're fortunate in our country to have the system, the way it works.
• 15:25
  So ultimately, when you believe in that, the fact is that everybody deserves a defense.
• 15:32
  And the only way you're going to convict somebody in our country is if the government proves every element beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 15:41
  So when you look at somebody, it's not just, did they do it, it's can the government prove beyond a reasonable doubt they did it.
• 15:51
  So when somebody's found not guilty, that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
• 15:55
  I Mean.
• 15:55
  Yeah, that's an easy thing to say.
• 15:57
  It's a really easy shortcut if you really want to just look at the definition of the word not guilty.
• 16:03
  The only thing that means is the government didn't prove that case beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 16:10
  So in.
• 16:11
  If you believe in the system, you know, who would want to live?
• 16:14
  I mean, if our.
• 16:15
  If our country is as great as we say, if our criminal justice system is as great as we say, why wouldn't we.
• 16:23
  Why would we ever want to have anybody, you know, punished or go to jail or put on probation if the government can't prove that case beyond a reasonable doubt?
• 16:38
  Okay, so along with that, have you had situations to where, you know, you, like, things didn't go your way and it, like, it affected you?
• 16:53
  No, I have not.
• 16:54
  I mean, I've had cases that I've lost that I was bothered by because, you know, if you spend two years with somebody, especially on a big case, you know, and more so when I was a little younger, as
• 17:06
  I've, you know, I've gotten older, I've dealt with it better, you know, as you, you know, as you deal with personal tragedy in your life, you know, you can find perspective for things a lot easier.
• 17:19
  But, you know, earlier, I would.
• 17:22
  I would.
• 17:22
  I would stay bothered about certain things a long time.
• 17:25
  But I can tell you, over the course of my gosh, I've tried, you know, almost 400 cases.
• 17:33
  One time did I think somebody.
• 17:37
  What?
• 17:37
  Only one time did I feel that somebody that was convicted shouldn't have been convicted.
• 17:43
  You know, now I've thought a lot of times where people have been acquitted, where they, you know, where the jury came back not guilty.
• 17:50
  And I was a little bit shocked.
• 17:52
  You know, I was like, hey, I'm probably going to lose this one.
• 17:56
  But, you know, I've had that happen many times, but only one time do I really think that the jury got it wrong where it went against me.
• 18:05
  And that's in 35 years of doing this, Dave.
• 18:09
  Wow.
• 18:09
  Our system works okay.
• 18:14
  And on this case that I got wrong, you know, looking back on it and talking, you know, I've become better friends with that prosecutor over.
• 18:21
  Over the years, and now that prosecutor's out, you know, doing criminal defense as well.
• 18:26
  We've had some discussions about it, and, you know, I might have just been too close to that case, you know, and that's why, you know, my opinion of it was a little bit jaded.
• 18:35
  But that's the only one time that I.
• 18:37
  That I had a bad taste in my mouth.
• 18:39
  About any of the results from this.
• 18:41
  Okay, and let me ask you this.
• 18:43
  Do you have any criteria or any type of evaluation on whether or not you will take a case?
• 18:52
  You know, I, I do and I don't.
• 18:55
  I mean, nobody wants to, to represent, just.
• 18:58
  I don't mind representing somebody that's committed a serious crime.
• 19:02
  Do, do I want to do.
• 19:04
  I want somebody that, you know, I, I don't want somebody to come to my office and just, just be horrible to deal with, you know.
• 19:15
  You know, I've.
• 19:16
  I've had a lot of people that have kid admitted bad, bad crimes that are.
• 19:21
  That, that are kind people and easy to talk to.
• 19:23
  They come into my office, you know, they explain their situation.
• 19:26
  They realize they're knee deep in it.
• 19:28
  They realize they're going to be punished.
• 19:30
  I don't have a problem with that.
• 19:32
  I don't have a problem with the crime.
• 19:34
  But it's just like anybody, if I was a, you know, a waiter at a, at a restaurant or, or, or if I was, you know, taking tickets at the movie theater, nobody wants to deal with a bad person,
• 19:44
  you know, know, so I'm no different than anybody else.
• 19:47
  Nobody wants to deal with somebody that's just cantankerous and hard to be around.
• 19:52
  But as far as, you know, dealing with the different crimes and, and the different people, obviously, you know, that's my job.
• 19:59
  And, and it's even the worse the crime is, the more important it is to have a good lawyer to make sure there's checks and balances on the system.
• 20:09
  You know, I live in a neighborhood just like you, Dave, and I want it to be safe out there for me and my wife and my child.
• 20:18
  So when a, when a criminal gets put away, I don't take a lot of umbrage with that.
• 20:24
  What I do take umbrage with is if somebody takes a shortcut to put that criminal away, if they put that criminal away in an unfair manner without due process, that's what bothers me.
• 20:37
  Nobody, you know, obviously I want to do my best job for all my people.
• 20:42
  But at the end of the day, bad people get punished.
• 20:46
  It's that simple.
• 20:47
  As long as it's fair.
• 20:48
  As long as they had every opportunity to.
• 20:51
  To do their case, you know, let the chips fall.
• 20:56
  Okay?
• 20:57
  So it doesn't matter the crime, right?
• 20:59
  If people are going to be good to deal with and a good client, so to speak, and regardless of the crime, you're willing to do, do your best in your.
• 21:09
  Do your job, basically.
• 21:10
  And you count on the system to get it right, Whatever that means, whether you win or you lose.
• 21:16
  Absolutely.
• 21:17
  And I do a lot of sex cases.
• 21:19
  I defend a lot of child porn, sexual assault of children.
• 21:24
  And I can tell you when I'm talking to a jury on those cases, I mean, there's some of them that just hate me for representing those people.
• 21:34
  But those people are human beings, and they deserve somebody to put up a criminal defense for them just like everybody else.
• 21:43
  And ultimately, if the government proves their case, they're going to get punished.
• 21:48
  Let's do it fair.
• 21:50
  Okay.
• 21:52
  All right.
• 21:52
  And another thing that, you know, we talked about and you mentioned is, is in the business of law.
• 22:02
  Your feeling, too, is most attorneys don't really get that they're business people and what it takes to run a successful business.
• 22:12
  And you talked about how you have seen incredible growth in your practice since you started leveraging content creation and social media and guesting on podcasts.
• 22:22
  Can you just talk about that and what it's meant for your business?
• 22:27
  Well, you know, this is what we were talking about.
• 22:29
  I think most lawyers, 90%, maybe even more.
• 22:33
  I mean, they think it's almost like Field of Dreams.
• 22:36
  Build it and they will come, hey, I'm a good lawyer.
• 22:39
  You know, that's what they're thinking.
• 22:40
  I'm a good lawyer.
• 22:41
  People are going to find me because they need a good lawyer.
• 22:45
  And you know what we hear restaurants that are amazing go out of business all the time because they don't know how to put, you know, butts and seats, you know, and that's the same thing that lawyers, you know,
• 22:58
  unfortunately, I don't think they do.
• 22:59
  They don't think of themselves as a business.
• 23:01
  I know.
• 23:02
  I didn't.
• 23:02
  Like I said, I started my practice June 1st of 94.
• 23:08
  So I've just gone it.
• 23:09
  You know, I'm at 32 years.
• 23:10
  I'm in year 32.
• 23:12
  Okay.
• 23:13
  I bet the first 15, I had no concept about doing business.
• 23:19
  And probably not until the last 10 or 12 did I start understanding that I run a business and my product just happens to be lawyering.
• 23:29
  And only in the last three have I really got it where I got.
• 23:33
  You know, I.
• 23:34
  I hooked up with some, you know, business coaching and just changed everything.
• 23:39
  Once you understand that all I'm doing is selling widgets, it just happens.
• 23:45
  My widget is a.
• 23:46
  Is legal advice, you know, and until you can do that, you know, you're not running a business.
• 23:52
  You're.
• 23:52
  You literally are, you know, almost like Lucy, you know, where, you know, she was giving the.
• 23:58
  The advice and you Know, Charlie Brown, you know, five cents for, you know, psychological advice.
• 24:03
  Same kind of concept.
• 24:04
  You've got to run it as a business.
• 24:06
  You've got to be a business first if you're ever going to figure out a way to, you know, to make more money and, and substantiate, you know, your firm.
• 24:17
  Okay.
• 24:17
  So it was really some coaching and mentoring that got you to, that opened your eyes to how to really think more like an entrepreneur.
• 24:26
  Even though you're a lawyer.
• 24:28
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:29
  And what was funny, it's kind of mushroomed because once you start talking to your mentors and your business coaching, then you start reading different books and, you know, there's, you know, there's.
• 24:39
  There's not a concept that somebody hadn't written a book about.
• 24:41
  And then you start reading, you know, books by lawyers about, you know, making, you know, treating your law firm like a business.
• 24:47
  And you, you start realizing that that takes you another direction and you just keep learning things.
• 24:52
  And, you know, the next thing you know, you.
• 24:54
  You have more of a grasp.
• 24:56
  One day you wake up and you're no longer just a lawyer.
• 25:00
  You know, you're a business owner who happens to be a lawyer.
• 25:04
  And once that happens, it changes everything.
• 25:08
  Okay.
• 25:09
  And talk about what the growth's been like in terms of.
• 25:12
  Has it just been higher profile cases, more clients, more new practice areas?
• 25:18
  Like what, what, what type of changes has that meant to your business?
• 25:22
  Well, well, just, I mean, it's made.
• 25:25
  It's meant more clients, better clients, higher paying clients.
• 25:29
  You know, we spread out a little bit on our.
• 25:32
  We.
• 25:32
  We've become.
• 25:32
  We've gone from both a pretty much an exclusively criminal firm.
• 25:37
  Now we're both criminal and family law in Galveston county alone.
• 25:41
  But, yeah, it gives you more opportunity, more selection, you know.
• 25:47
  You know, now you can.
• 25:49
  When.
• 25:49
  When the clients come on, you can kind of decide, you know, which clients you want to work with a little bit better.
• 25:56
  You know, obviously, you know, once you're more of a successful practice, you know, you, you know, success breeds success, and you'll get more people that can come in there, afford the services more.
• 26:10
  You don't have to do as many payment plans and, you know, let people pay it out over a million years kind of thing, and you just have an opportunity.
• 26:19
  And once you can put that stuff about you, if you're doing, you know, all the other business stuff, you know, you got to keep.
• 26:25
  Keep some time there, you know, to do the legal work.
• 26:28
  So it's nice to not have to deal with all the collections, all those kind of things, you know, so the numbers have just.
• 26:35
  It.
• 26:35
  The numbers have just, you know, changed.
• 26:39
  Okay.
• 26:39
  All right.
• 26:40
  And it sounds like prior, you were just doing a lot of that stuff yourself in terms of, well, where I.
• 26:47
  Went from, like, three of us working there, now there's like 10 of us, you know.
• 26:51
  You know, so there's just more people doing things.
• 26:54
  You know, there's.
• 26:55
  There's.
• 26:55
  There's more paperwork.
• 26:57
  Before, I mean, 10, 12, 15 years ago, most of the motion writing and paperwork I was doing, you know, now there's.
• 27:05
  There's many more people there.
• 27:06
  So there's.
• 27:07
  There's more, you know, and by having people there, it also allows you to stay on the attack more as a lawyer.
• 27:13
  So not only do you become a better business person, being a better business person can also help you become a better lawyer.
• 27:23
  I mean, can you expand on that in terms of how being a better business person can help you be a better lawyer?
• 27:29
  Well, by being a better business person, you're bringing in more people, okay?
• 27:33
  You have more people you have to take care of.
• 27:35
  Therefore, it takes more employees to handle that.
• 27:40
  And as you grow up, the margins just tamed a little bit, and you can actually get employees.
• 27:46
  For example, we use a client success manager.
• 27:51
  So ultimately, that person is there just to make sure our clients understand what's going on, you know, what their next step is.
• 28:01
  Hey, we've got some documentation in.
• 28:03
  Would you like to come look at it?
• 28:05
  We've gotten these videos, you know, really working, holding, you know, going hand in hand with your client.
• 28:10
  And that's the number one thing, okay, is making access and making this ride.
• 28:16
  Because like we were talking about, every client is nervous as hell as they go through this process, either criminal or family law.
• 28:24
  Both of those are miserable.
• 28:26
  So we go out of our way to make sure it's less miserable.
• 28:31
  You know, hey, they always have somebody to talk to.
• 28:34
  They always feel heard.
• 28:35
  They always, you know, we have somebody they can reach out to.
• 28:39
  They need documentation, they want to come in.
• 28:41
  Whatever it is, keep them in the loop.
• 28:44
  The one.
• 28:45
  One of the biggest complaints that clients have with lawyers is, is correspondence, you know, staying in touch.
• 28:52
  So we've tried to eliminate that.
• 28:53
  So now here's the second part of that.
• 28:56
  Second part of that is by having more employees, you know, we can write more motions.
• 29:02
  We can.
• 29:03
  We can argue more, you know, esoteric issues.
• 29:07
  You know, we can.
• 29:08
  We can go and have these smaller hearings that, you know, might not win all the time, but everything about criminal law, it's, you know, it's marginal so marginal gains can change people's lives.
• 29:24
  Ah, okay.
• 29:25
  And then it sounds like you really take serious this concept of, I mean, I guess I would call it customer service.
• 29:34
  Like just in any other business, if you treat your customers well and you make them feel valued, they're going to keep coming back.
• 29:41
  But in terms of law, like you said, one of the biggest complaints is people, especially if they're going through these harrowing criminal trials or these family law situations, which is divorce and child custody, all that sort of thing,
• 29:56
  it sounds like you've really gone out of your way to make them feel welcome and have outlets for them to always be able to talk to somebody while they're going through these highly stressful situations.
• 30:08
  And that's really, I guess I would call that being a better business person and just applying it to your law firm.
• 30:14
  Absolutely.
• 30:14
  Five years ago, I read a book called Unreasonable Hospitality.
• 30:18
  Changed my life.
• 30:21
  It was literally it.
• 30:23
  It is all about taking care of your clients because ultimately, if they feel taken care of, what are they going to do when somebody needs, needs somebody?
• 30:33
  They're going to refer you, you know, so despite, you know, all the social media marketing and all that stuff, you can't get all your clients from just one place.
• 30:43
  You're going to need referrals.
• 30:45
  You know, you're going to need that to, to take you to the next level.
• 30:49
  And in addition to being out there, and obviously even people that will see you online or on social, they're going to ask around as well.
• 30:57
  And people better have a, you know, a comfortable feel about the way they're treated at your place because if they don't, they're not, they're not going to keep coming.
• 31:09
  Yeah, well said.
• 31:11
  All right.
• 31:12
  And Tad, given you've had this 30 plus year career and it did, you know, certainly didn't start out the way you planned and you pivoted and you've had a very successful run as a criminal defense attorney.
• 31:24
  What's been the best part of this whole journey for you?
• 31:30
  You know, it's, it's like catching lightning in a bottle.
• 31:34
  It doesn't happen every day, but those times when somebody that deserves something where they, they've gotten caught up, they were, you know, the system wasn't right to them, you know, and you give them back your life, their life,
• 31:52
  you know, you know, I, I've had it enough times where it keeps you coming back.
• 31:58
  It's, it's like hitting a five run homer in the bottom of the ninth.
• 32:02
  You know, when you see somebody that deserves that not guilty and it is so rewarding to them.
• 32:10
  And they, you know, it's the best.
• 32:13
  I mean, there is nothing better than giving somebody back their life.
• 32:19
  Nothing's better.
• 32:23
  Okay.
• 32:24
  All right.
• 32:24
  And, Tad, if people are watching this and they.
• 32:28
  They need an attorney or they just want to learn more about you and your.
• 32:32
  Your firm and what you do, what's the best way that people can find you online?
• 32:36
  Then just go to our website.
• 32:37
  It's really easy, Tad.
• 32:39
  Law.com.
• 32:40
  my first name with Law.com.
• 32:42
  it has the links to all our social.
• 32:44
  We're all over social.
• 32:46
  A lot of fun, entertaining stuff to watch, you know, on social.
• 32:51
  So they can go follow us.
• 32:53
  And, you know, if they need anything, they can always, you know, hit us up on the DMS or reach out online.
• 32:58
  And, you know, they have any questions, we'd love to talk to them.
• 33:01
  Okay.
• 33:02
  All right, we'll link all that in the show.
• 33:04
  Notes for everyone.
• 33:05
  All right, Ted, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and sharing all this valuable wisdom from your journey with our listeners.
• 33:11
  We greatly appreciate it.
• 33:13
  Hey, thanks for having me, Dave.
• 33:14
  It was a lot of fun.