Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 6: Why We (don't) Hate Men

Transcript

Ep. 6: Why We (don't) Hate Men · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

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Welcome to the We Are More podcast.
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My name is Alyssa.
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And my name's Bri.
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We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.
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We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His
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word.
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And apparently that's controversial.
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Get comfy.
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There it is.
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Hi, and welcome to episode six.
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I have no idea.
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They're blending together.
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We need to look that up before we start recording.
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Welcome to episode six.
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Could be eight.
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No, pretty sure it's six.
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It's confusing because we upload every two weeks, but we're recording them ahead.
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Mm hmm.
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So right.
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You didn't know that, did you?
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We talk about that all the time.
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I thought it was a secret.
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You know what?
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Look how much louder we are now.
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Wow.
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Look at us go.
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They're ready for us.
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So because you guys are listening a little bit later, I believe episode four just went
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up.
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Yes, it did.
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So our modesty episode is the one that went up just this last Thursday.
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We're super proud of that one.
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Super proud.
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We got a lot of really great responses.
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Did anybody follow along with the game?
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I don't think we talked about the game.
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I think it should be a game.
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Go back and listen again to episode four.
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Take a little sip of water.
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Every time we say boobs, just water.
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Just water.
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That's all.
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Jesus turned water into wine.
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You could do wine.
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Maybe if you pray hard enough.
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I think we're crossing over.
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We're tiptoeing through.
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So we got really cool responses from the Modesty podcast.
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Probably more responses off of that one than we have in the past.
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Yeah, I would agree.
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And I think that's because that tends to be a very hot button issue.
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It does seem to be a hot button issue.
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Yeah, I mean, it's something that affects, you know, a lot of what we talk about affects
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women specifically in the Christian world, but that hits all women.
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Yeah, across the board.
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And we have a little bit of a different perspective on it because of our faith, but it's still,
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it's just a universal truth, unfortunately, that women are expected to dress a certain
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way.
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Isn't that a quote from a classic book?
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It is a universal truth.
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Yes, it's from Pride and Prejudice.
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Yes!
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I'm literate!
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It's a truth universally acknowledged that a single man of good fortune must be in want
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of a wife.
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I think that was like our first like post.
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Instagram.
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I was very proud of that.
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We just were like tiptoeing into the verge of blasphemy.
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Nope, that's not it.
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Man, I'm an editor.
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I should know that.
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What is that word?
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What word are you looking for?
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When you-
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Plagiarism.
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Plagiarism.
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That's the word.
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Plagiarism.
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Just a touch.
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Just a little plagiarism.
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Just a little taste.
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She's long gone.
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It's fine.
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She doesn't care anymore.
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Yeah, so that was a really good one.
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Well, I think we'll talk a little bit about some of the feedback we got as well last week
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one.
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Yes, we may.
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We may.
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We very well may.
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At least it's on the outline.
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So today we wanted to answer a couple of questions.
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We're kind of taking a little bit of a break from our really heavy topics.
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It's been quite heavy.
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It has.
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And I hope you guys have enjoyed that.
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I think especially with the modesty when we talked about it and it was a hard topic, but
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we felt like it needed to be heavy and not just funny, even though we like to be funny.
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Even though we are hilarious.
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We are so funny.
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Mostly me.
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Our voices sound so similar though, so sometimes you really can't tell who's saying what.
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When I edit, sometimes I'm like, did I say that?
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I know.
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So, sorry if that's the case.
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Hi, my name's Brianna and I like warm hugs.
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No, you don't.
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I hate them actually.
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Please stay away.
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I think it won't help either.
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Should we have, like, should we video this someday?
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Because we look so similar.
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Yeah, we do.
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People are not going to, we're going to mess people up.
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So we're going to address a couple of the questions today that we have gotten from people
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that we have heard.
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And are just like common questions for women who believe the way that we do.
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Right.
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So we're going to dive into that a little bit.
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This may be a little bit of a shorter podcast.
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They've been running long lately.
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I know.
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I feel like people deserve a little bit of a break.
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Yeah.
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So we just have to be really, really funny this time.
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Or I can just sing more.
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You sing so much.
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I'm a little nasally today, so maybe it's not the best idea today.
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I just finished editing episode five.
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Yeah, so we are on six.
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I just finished editing episode five and I, you sang no less than five times.
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There's a song for everything.
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I cut out several so they don't get to hear all of them.
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There's several people who would agree with me.
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Should we name them?
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I have a cloud of witnesses.
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You have a family full of witnesses.
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So the first question we're going to go through is, I think what comes from people that are
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not necessarily religious or people that have stepped away from the church, things like
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that.
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And that is why have we stayed in the church and why do we continue to follow God?
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And I think that's such an important question because it's confusing.
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It is confusing.
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Because if we really have seen what we've seen and have been told things that we've
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told you guys about, you know what we've heard, why would we stay?
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Yeah, it seems like it's against everything that we would stand for.
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So we have been diving into that with each other a little bit and just chatting about
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it.
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We have similar reasons and different reasons.
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So Bri, one of the things that you have talked a lot about is that you tried to leave church.
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Yeah.
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I would say one of the things I wanted to bring up is there comes a point in everybody's
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life where you have to decide what you want to believe for yourself.
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So I feel like for us, we both grew up in church.
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We both went to Christian schools.
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And as much as I didn't go to Christian colleges, correction.
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I went to Christian schools when I was really little.
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Yeah.
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With Curtis.
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Curtis is my boyfriend.
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Maybe he'll be my husband one day.
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We can show him the podcast.
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Maybe he's listening.
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What a fun story.
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That would be a fun story.
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I sought you out.
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Sorry, I threw up.
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I hope people listen to the last of the words.
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No sense.
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But you just grow up in the faith for so long.
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You go to a school or I went to a school that chapel wasn't really required, but I'm still
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surrounded by people who are like minded in faith to me.
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So once I got out of college, I didn't really know what to do with myself.
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I would say I was a little bit depressed.
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I think that would be easy for me to say.
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Because now I'm having to figure out why I believe the things that I believe and why
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God is putting me in these situations or do I think that God exists.
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And I think that's really common for a lot of people.
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You have to make your faith your own.
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Especially people our age, I think have, you know, our parents, it was just expected.
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You just go to church.
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That's how it is, and it's not really expected for people in our age group.
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So you do have to really deconstruct and then figure out where you want to go from here.
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Yeah.
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Also, it's like, it's scary going into a church by yourself.
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It's not very fun, especially if you're going into smaller churches, because those people
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have already made their connections.
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Right.
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Well, and one of the things that you've talked a lot about too, that I think is super important
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to bring up is as a single person, you are literally having to walk in alone.
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You don't have that extra person on your side.
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Yeah, for sure.
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And so much of church is geared towards married people or people in relationships.
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It's like either kids or married people.
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And if you're single, there's something wrong with you.
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And if you're single, that's a whole nother topic.
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We're actually, we've talked about, we're going to go into what it looks like to be
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a single woman in the church and what it looks like to be a married woman in the church in
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future episodes, but get excited for that.
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But yeah, you have to make your faith your own.
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And I kind of started by a lot of journaling, a lot of self reflecting.
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So with all of that, once you had kind of deconstructed, what made you feel like you
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still wanted to be in church, even if you did have faith?
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I feel like God keeps calling you back and it's hard to explain, but there was this tug
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of my heart, like, get back in there.
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I still love you.
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I still love you.
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And I think a big part of me coming back to faith was when grandpa got sick actually.
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And he lived his life.
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He wasn't a Christian for a good chunk of his life.
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Till I was born.
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Yeah.
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So 1992 he was born.
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Hey, rude.
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I'm so sorry I got you out.
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I'm so rude of me.
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Sister to sister.
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She was born in 2008.
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But for a big part of his life, he was not a Christian, but then he did become a Christian
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and he spent his whole life like every morning he would pray over this huge list of people
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and not just like, Oh, pray for Brianna.
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Oh, pray for Alyssa.
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It was like in detail about everybody's life.
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And it was this huge list of people and his faith was so strong.
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And I thought if I can be even a quarter of what he is, that would be amazing for me.
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So I started diving deeper into the Bible, deeper into going to church, finding a small
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group.
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And actually, I think that's what helped me get through when he did pass away, because
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I did have that connection back with God.
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And I have this whole journal saved over there of going through that time.
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And there's so many emotions.
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Like God keeps calling you back.
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Well, I think one of the big things that you're talking about there is just having a community.
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And you know, we'll go into this a little bit later.
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I think the Bible calls you into community with people who believe the same way that
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you do or believe not exactly the same way.
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You're never going to find somebody that has exactly the same opinions.
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Not even you and I share all of the same opinions.
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No.
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I think I'm prettier than you.
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That's incorrect.
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But I think, you know, what you found at that time and what you needed at that time was
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community.
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And, you know, community can look different for different people.
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And we'll go into that later too.
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But I think that's part of God tugging on your heart is saying it's hard to live this
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life alone.
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Yeah, it is.
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Which is a struggle for me because I am an introvert and let me tell you, my greatest
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joy is to live life alone.
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But I don't think that's totally true for you.
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It's not.
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And that's, you know, the wisdom of what's in the Bible and things like that is I left
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to my own devices would have you and Nathan and that is the end of the list.
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Well, maybe our parents and a few other members of our family.
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No, but I mean, the list would be short, I guess is what I'm saying.
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I wouldn't seek anyone out and create relationships because it's just not who I am naturally.
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But there come times like when grandpa passed away, like when you have major tragedies in
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your life or major great things in your life, that it does become important to have people
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that you can count on and know that like you share a similar life with.
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Yeah, I guess.
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I think there is kind of a special bond, even if you meet someone in the workforce or something,
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and you know that they're also they have a similar belief system to you.
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There is kind of a special bond there.
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Yeah.
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Well, yeah, because you can talk about things a little bit differently.
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Yeah.
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You can say even things like I'll pray for you and not feel weird about it.
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Well, it feels like and this is a very different topic, but as Christians, I think a lot of
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times we, especially in the workforce, feel that we need to hide our beliefs in who we
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are.
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Yeah.
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And so, yeah, when you find somebody, you kind of cling on to them.
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You're like, oh, we can talk about this.
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Right.
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Even though it might not be everything you talk about, you might not talk about it hardly
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ever.
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But there's just like a camaraderie.
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Yeah.
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So I think, like we said, community is super important.
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And we believe that God is calling us into community in however that looks for you.
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Yeah, like I would say, like for grandma, her church people are her people.
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Right.
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I went to church with her fairly recently.
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And you can just tell she's so at home surrounded by this, you know, her friends, her family,
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and that's where she fills her cup.
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That's where she gets energized.
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Not that she doesn't get energized when we're around, but it's just different.
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Yeah.
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But for me, not necessarily that level of community.
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I've changed churches a lot, and I'm currently in the process of trying to find a church
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home.
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So community is fluid.
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Yeah.
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And I think, you know, I've brought this up several times this week as we talk about the
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podcast with our family and friends.
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And we say this absolutely all the time, but it's important to remember that your reality,
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or my reality in this case, is not everyone's reality.
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So while the church community might be what works for you today right now, that community
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may change over time.
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Right.
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And that's okay.
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And I think something that I've been afraid of in my life is to be considered a church
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hopper.
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Like, I have this deep fear of being considered a church hopper.
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I have talked about this in therapy.
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So I've been very afraid of that, and that has kept me in communities that didn't function
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for me anymore.
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So I think it's okay for your church community to be a little bit fluid.
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It's okay to find a faith community outside of church also.
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Yeah, for sure.
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For me, like people that I work with now, shout out to you if you're listening, I do
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also have a community of faith people at work now.
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Which is so cool.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And you know, when the Bible talks about having a faith community, it's really not talking
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about what we know as church today.
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Oh, nice, smooth transition.
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Thank you.
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Yes.
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So we talked...
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In which podcast?
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Probably all of them.
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Yeah, but we specifically...
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I think in the last podcast, we very specifically...
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Yeah, because we talked about women in leadership.
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We very specifically talked about the structure of the early church.
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And it was so different.
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Yeah, it's not only Sunday.
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Your whole life was for the church.
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Your occupation was pretty much for the church.
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Well, they needed each other on a whole different level.
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They were starting a new religion that was being persecuted.
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They had to have each other.
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And so if you brought them into our modern day churches, they would be like, what the
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heck?
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This is sad.
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Like, it's just not enough.
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Where's your faith?
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Right.
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Because we have a very specific structure of the way church functions.
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And I think we've made fun of that a little bit before.
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Just a little bit.
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You sing three songs and then you go into announcements and then you go into the message
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and then...
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I'll shut up.
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And then you sing one more song.
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Yeah.
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You pray and you leave.
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But that wouldn't have been familiar to them.
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That wouldn't have been familiar to the writers of the Bible who were asking you to be in
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community anyway.
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Yeah.
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So, all that to say, and I'm sure we may dive a little deeper into that later too, but...
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Stop singing.
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That's from the Princess and the Frog.
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But I think it's important to just remember that a faith community can be fluid, depending
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on where you're at in your life, depending on what you've dealt with with the church.
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I've personally found a lot of faith building moments by myself.
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When I was in between churches, I would drive over to this lake not too far from here and
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I would listen to whatever church service I found that I liked on my phone and I would
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have my breakfast there and I would pray and I would sing some songs because I love to
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sing.
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And that was kind of like community to me because I was with God and my phone.
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Always good to be in community with your phone.
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Social, Alyssa.
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All right.
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So bouncing off of that a little bit because I want to...
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There's parts of that that I want to come back to because we aren't saying don't be
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in church at all.
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We're just saying church can look a little different for different people.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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But for me, part of why I stayed is because I don't believe that all of the garbage that
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we talk about in churches, all the patriarchy, all of the extremism, the lacking women in
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leadership, things like that, I don't believe that's what God wants for his church or for
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his people.
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I think that is a messed up version.
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If I don't believe that this is what God intended or wants for his church or for his people,
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then I feel a responsibility and I'm not saying that everyone needs to feel this responsibility,
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but I feel a responsibility to help change that.
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To help make it better.
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Because I think if you let the church just sort of wallow in misinformation and tradition...
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Well, there's a song, actually a church song that says, break down the walls of all my
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religion.
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Something of all my tradition.
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You really don't know the Christian songs, do you?
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I do!
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I do.
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It says your way is better.
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That's what it says.
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But I think it's at least for us and we're doing it in a different way because we absolutely
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did very recently leave a church over this exact topic.
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And I'm not saying stay in a church that's harmful to you and your belief system.
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What I'm saying is I personally didn't want to give up on the whole institution because
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I want more for God's community.
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Not that I can do it on my own, that God couldn't do it on his own, but just that I feel like
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there's something here for us to contribute.
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And that's why we're here.
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That's why we started the podcast.
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I had to talk Bri into it.
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Actually, the pastor talked Bri into it.
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Don't you remember after that one sermon I said, so Bree...
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Yeah, he did.
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He didn't even know he did.
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Yeah, well he kind of tried to opposite it.
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And then another aspect of me staying in church was for my family.
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And that sounds a little bit weird, like, I don't need it, but my family does.
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No, I think that's a very valid reason.
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I have said before, so a lot of people in our family homeschool and I've been asked...
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We were personally homeschooled.
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We were.
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Not the whole time, but for a little while.
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I think four years.
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It was four.
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Yeah.
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And so I have been asked many times, like, oh, why don't you homeschool?
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Because my daughter and eventually my son are in public school.
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And that's a big no-no.
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And I've been asked a lot of times why I don't homeschool.
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And the biggest reason is because as a working parent, I don't have the capacity to be responsible
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for my children's education.
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If you do, that's great.
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No judgment.
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No judgment, because we were homeschooled ourselves.
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Right.
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But just personally, that's not something that works for me.
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And I feel the same way about church.
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We had left the church for many, many years and I started to see in my daughter that she
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didn't know the Bible stories and she wasn't praying and kind of all those little things.
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And I realized it was because I was the only one responsible for it and I was failing.
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And there's power in knowing that you don't know everything and having other people in
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your life, like not one teacher in high school is responsible for everything when you go.
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There's other people, you know what I'm trying to say.
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I got you.
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And it's that part of the community, I think, is so important to have other people to help
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your family along.
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It takes a village.
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Right.
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And I mean, I think, you know, we were not raised in a religion where you really had
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like godparents.
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But I like aspects of that because I like the idea of here's somebody else who's going
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to help you with your child's faith.
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A spirit guide.
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Instead of a godparent, I want spirit guides.
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Okay, if you have kids someday, I'll be their spirit guide.
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Okay.
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Great.
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So yeah, that's that was a huge thing for me was I just I needed other people to come
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alongside me because I will forget things.
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I won't tell the story right.
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I will be the first person to say you have a terrible memory.
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I do.
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It's really bad.
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The worst memory out there.
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That's why we had a whole discussion about what this podcast was going to look like this
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morning.
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And I, Brianna, if you paid me a million dollars, I cannot tell you a thing we talked
24:17
about.
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I know.
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That's why we haven't outlined.
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Yeah.
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Not that it sounds like it.
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But basically, we just we believe that there's better out there for the church.
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And there are aspects of the church today that we enjoy.
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Bri talked a little bit about worship.
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Yeah, I think there's I've experienced good worship music, worship music in churches.
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And I just personally, it's like a magic feeling when you're in a big church and they're all
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singing the songs and the lights are low.
24:55
You just really feel God in that space in a different way than me in my car alone, where
25:01
I still could feel God in that space, too.
25:04
It's just different.
25:05
Yeah.
25:06
And for you, that's super important.
25:07
For my husband, Nathan, as well, it's it's something that we really focus on when we're
25:12
looking at a church.
25:14
Yeah.
25:15
He's a musician.
25:16
So that's huge for him.
25:17
I am also a musician.
25:18
You sure.
25:21
I'm not.
25:25
When we were in high school, you did talk about band camp on the last one time in best
25:30
year when I played the flute.
25:32
Now they know I'm not going to continue that.
25:36
Yeah, so that's kind of the answer to those questions.
25:40
If you have more questions about that, I would love for you to send us a message on Instagram.
25:49
You can find us at we are more dot podcast or Facebook at the same one.
25:52
I'd also love to maybe have a section where we share people's stories if they were comfortable
25:57
with that.
25:58
Yeah.
25:59
So share a story of why you stayed in your church or why you maybe left a church or just
26:05
share your stories.
26:06
Yeah.
26:07
So you can find us on Instagram or Facebook.
26:09
It is we are more dot podcast on both of those platforms.
26:13
And actually, we just started a YouTube channel.
26:15
Look at us go.
26:16
So you can comment there as well.
26:18
And soon I will make a Tik Tok.
26:20
And maybe eventually we will make a Tik Tok.
26:22
I'm so Gen Z and I'm so hip with the times.
26:25
So hip.
26:26
People say that about you all the time.
26:27
They say I have hips.
26:29
We didn't get that gene.
26:38
They say my hips don't lie.
26:39
Do they?
26:40
No, they don't.
26:41
They say I lie.
26:44
We're 34 minutes in and we haven't gotten to question two.
26:49
Question numero dos.
26:51
So this one comes from, I think, the more Christian side of things.
26:58
So we're kind of switching it up a little bit, answering a question from each group
27:02
of people.
27:03
Yeah.
27:04
So this question gets thrown at feminists a lot.
27:08
So like I said, we're switching gears.
27:09
And honestly, I'm not great at catching.
27:11
No, neither of us are.
27:12
We should not get that gene either.
27:15
Nope.
27:16
And I've seen it actually.
27:18
So we follow or I follow, I guess.
27:20
I don't know if you do.
27:21
I do actually.
27:22
And so Sheila Ray Gregoire, she wrote The Great Sex Rescue.
27:28
You're not allowed to say that.
27:29
You say that every time I say that word.
27:35
And she's just awesome.
27:37
We just love her.
27:38
But she has been diving into some very controversial stuff lately that I think we'll loop back
27:44
to at the end.
27:45
But close the loop?
27:47
Yeah, closing the loop.
27:49
But she has been getting this question all the time lately.
27:53
And I just think it's so important to address.
27:57
So the question is, why do we hate men?
28:00
Because!
28:01
Kidding.
28:02
And like I said, feminists hear this all the time.
28:10
Clearly because you're angry about men taking all the power, that means you must hate all
28:15
men.
28:16
Obviously.
28:17
Obviously.
28:18
And the answer is very simply, we don't.
28:22
We don't.
28:23
We don't.
28:24
Never have?
28:25
No.
28:26
I think, I know so many great men.
28:30
You could never call me a sexist.
28:34
I'm friends with so many.
28:36
So shut it!
28:37
Hey, have you heard episode, possibly two?
28:41
I don't remember.
28:42
I think it was three.
28:45
I'm not sure.
28:47
So I think what it boils down to is that, you know, people see feminists, I shouldn't
28:54
say people, the more conservative people that dislike the feminist movement, the stereotype
29:03
is usually that feminists are angry.
29:06
They hate all men.
29:07
They're burning their bras and growing their armpit hair.
29:10
Which maybe would be better.
29:12
Maybe.
29:13
I do grow my armpit hair sometimes.
29:16
Let's get real real.
29:20
And the reality is like, it's just silly.
29:24
Well, I mean, I could do the same thing.
29:27
I could turn around and look at them and say, why do you hate women?
29:30
Right.
29:31
Exactly.
29:32
Why do you want to oppress me?
29:34
We don't hate men in any way.
29:36
What we hate is this attitude that men are superior.
29:40
Yes.
29:41
We hate the system.
29:42
Yeah.
29:43
And taking power away from women, taking autonomy away from women.
29:49
In the name of God.
29:50
Exactly.
29:51
Yeah.
29:52
I mean, we hate it all over.
29:53
Don't get me wrong, specifically.
29:57
Because I think when you use God there, there's just so much more manipulation.
30:02
Uh huh.
30:03
Well, you're clearly not a Christian or whatever.
30:06
Like your faith isn't as strong.
30:08
Right.
30:09
And if you can tell someone that the God of the universe hates them, if they do something
30:17
wrong, if they don't submit to their husband, if they try to lead in church, if they step
30:22
out of line in any way, that's a lot bigger of a threat than just, well, but your husband's
30:28
angry at you or society's angry at you.
30:32
Right.
30:33
That's calling your eternity into question now.
30:38
So that's a whole different thing.
30:39
So that's what it boils down to.
30:42
And there are lots and lots of incredible men out there fighting for women in the church.
30:50
Yeah.
30:51
I mean, and honestly, we've also seen men in our lives recently really come around to what
30:56
we've been saying.
30:57
Absolutely.
30:58
Shout out to dad.
30:59
Yeah.
31:00
Yeah.
31:01
Well, I think, you know, and we talked a little bit about how our parents never really lived
31:04
the husband is the head of the household submission lifestyle.
31:08
Yeah.
31:09
But they absolutely preached it.
31:11
Like it was because that's how they were raised.
31:15
And so my dad would have told you that that's how it was.
31:20
Yeah.
31:21
And our dad is like a big macho guy.
31:24
Okay.
31:25
Like you would believe him that he would assume that he felt this way.
31:29
But not only is he, he really has never been that way.
31:34
He's never been one to like assert authority over my mom.
31:38
But also, as we've been talking about this, I've watched like the way that he speaks about
31:46
things totally change.
31:47
Yeah, absolutely.
31:49
He does still make some jokes, but that's just who he is as a person.
31:54
And we love it because it's just like us.
31:57
That's where we get it.
31:59
And Nathan, my husband, you know, when we, when I first started down this journey, it
32:04
was kind of by myself.
32:05
Nathan and I have really never lived like that either.
32:08
But again, we grew up like this.
32:10
Yeah, we were taught.
32:12
And so to see him not only be supportive from a distance, but he reposts every single time
32:20
we post on Instagram.
32:21
He's the most supportive person I've ever experienced.
32:24
Even I don't do that.
32:25
I'm like, whatever.
32:27
He will spend an hour like trying to figure out the system so we can record.
32:33
Or he's been researching how to monetize for us recently and just so excited about it.
32:43
And so that's been really cool.
32:44
And then I got a comment from one of our family members recently that her husband, they just
32:52
finished listening to the Modesty podcast as a family, which I just...
32:56
That's so cool.
32:57
I love so much.
32:58
It's like we were driving with you in your car.
33:02
And I think it's such an important message as a family too.
33:06
That was a great one to listen to.
33:08
But she told me that her husband had no idea that women were being told some of these things
33:14
about Modesty.
33:15
And I think that's going to be important to go into as, you know, as we go on and talk
33:19
about things, but to hear the conversations that they were having.
33:26
And the way that this was affecting the way that they think and opening their eyes to
33:33
things that women are going through.
33:36
It's just really cool.
33:37
Yeah.
33:38
Opening up new conversations and even between like moms and sons or husbands and wives or
33:46
whoever it is.
33:48
I would argue even like our brother has been very supportive too.
33:53
I don't know that he agrees with 100% of what we say, but he's given us like cool books
33:59
and really a lot of words of encouragement.
34:01
So I think he's great.
34:04
But it's just, you know, when you say things like, oh, all feminists hate men, it just
34:11
doesn't even cross our minds.
34:13
I wouldn't think to answer this question except that I see people say it all the time.
34:18
And I think it's just kind of a smear campaign more than anything.
34:21
It's just, all right, well, I'm going to say that you're this extreme because if you're
34:28
extreme then you're crazy.
34:30
Well, it's a tactic that people have used time after time.
34:34
Like it's the way the different political parties make each other look.
34:39
Or in war times, what you would make your enemies look like.
34:43
Like they're so wrong that you'd have to be insane to think they're right.
34:49
And the Christian church, I think really put a lot of effort into making the feminists
34:55
look crazy.
34:56
Yeah, absolutely.
34:57
Because when I was a kid, I mean, feminism was a dirty word.
35:02
Honestly, up until very recently, I would say.
35:05
Very recently, yeah.
35:06
It was.
35:07
I remember, I think I've told this story honestly, but the first time I said something about
35:12
being a feminist, my dad like gasped.
35:15
I know, how dare you?
35:17
Just because it's got such a bad reputation.
35:21
And so you have to, in order, if you come from our circles, in order to step into a
35:28
more equality based mindset, you have to pull so much of your faith apart because it's in
35:36
there.
35:38
And that can be really hard and really scary.
35:40
Everything that you've been taught is being put into question.
35:45
You have to really figure out why you believe what you believe.
35:48
Yeah.
35:49
And I think we wrote down a couple of things too about, you know, we don't hate men, we
35:53
hate what's happening in the church.
35:56
We hate the use of stereotypes and patriarchy to put down women, to crush them till they're
36:05
manageable.
36:06
To make them think that the God of the universe looked at man and woman and said, well, she's
36:11
not as good.
36:14
Come on.
36:15
No, we are both created equally in the image of God.
36:20
And just because you're power hungry doesn't mean, I don't know what I was trying to say
36:25
with that.
36:26
No, but really just because someone's been in power doesn't mean that they need to stay
36:29
in power.
36:30
Yeah.
36:31
So move over.
36:33
Well, I think that's true in so many churches.
36:36
Whoever's in charge wants to stay in charge.
36:39
Yeah.
36:40
And you see this in a lot of places.
36:41
This is totally going off the rails, but you see this in a lot of places where a pastor
36:46
won't retire or-
36:48
A dentist who's a hundred years old.
36:51
I saw one the other day.
36:53
I was like, how are you still working?
36:55
But you see it all the time.
36:59
And I have big issues with satellite churches, but satellite churches where instead of hiring
37:04
a pastor to talk to this congregation, you're putting yourself up on the screen because
37:10
your words are the most important ones that they could hear.
37:13
Well, and this is something we talked about earlier, but there is such maturity and strength
37:20
in being able to step back, look yourself in the mirror and say, I don't need to be
37:26
in power or I'm not the smartest person in the room or someone else might have something
37:30
better to say that shows an incredible amount of strength and growth.
37:35
Right.
37:36
Well, and it shows even more growth if you can say, look, we've been silencing this group
37:41
of people for so long.
37:44
Maybe we should stop.
37:46
Maybe what we're saying is wrong.
37:49
Because the church has been silencing different groups of people since the beginning of the
37:54
church.
37:55
Oh yeah.
37:56
I mean, there's been racism in the church since literally the beginning of the church.
37:59
Yeah.
38:00
There's been sexism in the church since the beginning.
38:03
And so maybe we need to take a step back and say, we need to do things differently.
38:10
And so we don't, again, we don't hate men.
38:12
We hate all that comes along with this patriarchal church structure that we've been part of.
38:18
Yeah.
38:19
And that's why we talk about this stuff because we're tired of being part of it.
38:22
We're sick of it.
38:24
We're sick of it.
38:26
Do we want perhaps more?
38:31
She said the name again.
38:33
We didn't make that joke yet.
38:34
I was feeling empty.
38:35
I felt like.
38:38
I wanted to end this podcast somehow by saying something along the lines of, watch out.
38:46
We're coming for you.
38:47
Hide your kids.
38:48
Hide your wife.
38:49
Cut that part out.
38:50
Which of the pastors would you be talking to?
38:52
Because there's a list of 45 at this point.
38:54
I have one in mind.
38:59
I really feel like with every podcast that we're making and every move that we're making
39:04
in this direction, I've really felt God's hands on both of us.
39:08
Not to make this sound weird, but I really feel like God is moving us forward with every
39:14
step that we're making.
39:17
And if we're doing something wrong, I'm sure he'll let us know, but watch out.
39:22
Well, we got a text today and it was just like, you know, we were talking about this
39:29
and we were already planning on this particular topic for today and we got this text that
39:34
referenced all of the things that we were about to talk about.
39:37
And it's like, oh, okay, so people really are asking these questions.
39:41
These are really actually important things for us to go over.
39:45
And in transition.
39:47
Yeah, I would say our goal for this podcast, kind of what I was talking about before, but
39:55
is to spread God's love, right?
39:59
It's not to, what we don't want you to hear from the beginning of this podcast when we
40:02
talked about staying in church is that you need to be in church.
40:07
No, that's not our goal.
40:09
No, honestly, I think church absolutely has its place.
40:15
I'm not encouraging you to set out on your own and leave your church and whatever.
40:20
But again, my reality is not everyone's reality.
40:26
And so I have to sit here and understand that while my choice was to stay in church, yours
40:33
might be different.
40:34
And if my whole job is to show you God's love, that's it.
40:40
Mine too.
40:41
You're selfish.
40:42
Sorry.
40:43
Our whole goal is to show you God's love.
40:46
And if at the end of that, God wants you in church, he'll take you there.
40:52
Yeah, that's not my job.
40:54
No.
40:55
Like if you want me to come with you, maybe I'll come with you.
40:59
It depends on where it's at.
41:02
But that's not my job.
41:04
My job is never to force you into church.
41:07
It's never to say to you, the church is the most important thing you can do as a Christian.
41:13
No, actually, because I find that I'm jumping off on a tangent again, but I find so often
41:19
in those very conservative circles, church becomes an idol.
41:24
Church becomes something that you can check off on a box and then you can turn around
41:28
and judge your neighbor about it.
41:29
Did you go to church?
41:30
Do you go to church today?
41:31
Oh, you didn't?
41:32
Hmm.
41:33
Well, that's the first question.
41:35
It's never what did you learn?
41:38
How did you grow?
41:39
Did you meet anybody?
41:40
Like it's never that.
41:41
Did you go to church?
41:43
Check.
41:44
Yeah.
41:45
And that's...
41:46
Or how often are you going?
41:47
Right.
41:48
Are you going on Wednesday?
41:49
Are you all day there on Sunday?
41:53
Did you go to the small group?
41:55
Did you go to the ice cream social?
41:57
Are you also serving on 25 teams?
42:00
You know, 10 services?
42:03
Yeah.
42:04
It's something that people create into an idol.
42:07
So I think if that's what you're dealing with too, like maybe it is time to take a step
42:12
back.
42:13
Absolutely.
42:14
And I absolutely did that.
42:16
I was at a church for a while and I got very involved, which is very out of character for
42:21
me.
42:22
I got very involved in multiple teams, like small group, all the things, right?
42:29
And absolutely church was an idol.
42:31
So I definitely turned that church experience into an idol.
42:35
It was about how often am I there?
42:38
How many people are seeing me there?
42:41
It's kind of bragging rights.
42:42
Oh, a hundred percent.
42:44
And so it was important for me to walk away, to step away from that for a lot of reasons.
42:50
But that was absolutely one of them.
42:53
Yeah.
42:54
And I think that's a big part in the bigger churches and the smaller churches too, but
42:58
they're like, you don't have to become a member, but you do have to serve.
43:01
And if you're not serving, shame on you.
43:04
Well, sometimes you're not in a position to be serving somewhere else.
43:09
Maybe you're stretched so thin, you're working as much as you can.
43:12
You also have kids.
43:13
Or in my situation, I don't, but I'm also stretched very thin.
43:17
And maybe you're not in a position to serve and you shouldn't feel ashamed about that.
43:21
Sometimes you need someone to fill your cup for longer than a little while.
43:27
Maybe it's a whole season of your life.
43:28
And that's okay.
43:29
Do you know in the last podcast you ended it by singing goodbye?
43:35
I did.
43:36
He absolutely did.
43:37
And I absolutely kept it in.
43:40
How would you like me to end this one?
43:44
In conclusion, in our next podcast, we'll be hitting the big topic.
43:53
The big S. Nope.
43:55
Yeah.
43:56
Nope.
43:57
Yeah.
43:58
Nope.
43:59
The letter S, not sex.
44:04
So the reason we took a little bit of a week off of some of the tougher topics that we've
44:13
been doing, we wanted to have a little bit more fun and just chat also, but we're gearing
44:19
up for, I think one of our biggest topics so far.
44:23
I have the full armor of God on.
44:28
So next podcast, there'll be two weeks from now on Thursday.
44:33
And if you weren't aware, the podcasts go live at 10 AM.
44:42
So the podcast goes live at 10 AM wherever you get your podcasts.
44:47
But I usually don't post about it until like noon to make sure that it's up and good everywhere.
44:53
But yeah, so two weeks on Thursday morning, we're going to start talking about submission.
44:59
Okay, that hurt.
45:01
We'll have to cut that out because that's going to hurt headphones users.
45:05
Because it hurt me.
45:10
I'm scared, are you?
45:12
Actually I'm not.
45:13
I'm pretty excited.
45:14
I think it's a topic that we are excited to talk about.
45:19
This is a topic we're going to come back to all the time.
45:23
We're going to talk about it constantly, but we're going to really dive particularly deep
45:29
next time.
45:31
And I hope you guys are excited about that too.
45:33
I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions.
45:36
So that we can share them.
45:42
Feel free.
45:43
I mean, text, comment, comment on our...
45:47
Probably don't text.
45:48
They don't know our phone numbers.
45:49
And I don't want you to.
45:53
Feel free to message us on Instagram or Facebook, your thoughts, your opinions, your feelings.
45:59
We'll put them all into one big pro and con list.
46:02
Well, that'll be fun.
46:04
Alright, well thank you guys so much for listening.
46:07
We are so excited to chat with you in a couple of weeks.
46:11
Yeah.
46:12
Okay, bye.
46:13
Love you, bye.
46:14
Bye bye.