Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 481: Deferred applicant, 310 GRE. Stern (Abu Dhabi) vs IMD. Kenan Flagler vs Tepper

Transcript

MBA Wire Taps 481: Deferred applicant, 310 GRE. Stern (Abu Dhabi) vs IMD. Kenan Flagler vs Tepper · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, March 23, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. How are things going, Alex?
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: So we got another great show, exciting news out of uva Darden, some thoughts on the role of scholarship dollars. And our Real Humans alumni series continues this week. We get to hear from MBA alumni who are working at both Microsoft and Amazon. And of course you picked out some candidates for us to discuss, so let's dive in. But I wanted to first ask you, this is kind of a busy week that we have coming up, right? Aren't there some big time schools giving out decisions for round two?
• 0:56
  Speaker B: Yeah. Again this upcoming week we've got decisions being released by Jones, Harvard, Kellogg, Carroll, Booth, Haas, McCombs, Anderson, Johnson and Foster among the schools that we cover. And we also have application deadlines from Ross, Lbs, Foster, Tuck, Columbia and Broad. So a busy week upcoming, Graham.
• 1:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, and actually because of that, we're going to do a decision day watch party. We try to pick a day where there are lots of decisions that falls on March 25th. So that's this Wednesday and we're going to have. I already looked. Mike is working on the guest list, but it's going to be live streamed on YouTube. And what we do is we just sort of hang out and watch the board, if you will, watch Livewire to see what comes in. And we pepper in a bunch of special guests. Mike was telling me he's already lined up admissions directors from Kellogg who are releasing decisions that I think we're also going to talk with the dean of admissions over at Columbia Business School. They're apparently issuing their decisions that day. There are other guests in the works too that I can't reveal yet. But we're. It should be a lot of fun. We did this back in the winter in December for round one and had a lot of fun with it. So I'm looking forward to that.
• 2:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, it should be great. I will be on a beach somewhere in Malaga. So I.
• 2:18
  Speaker A: That's right, you're taking a vacation.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: Enjoy the show. Yes.
• 2:21
  Speaker A: You're not going to tune in from the beach? I can't believe it.
• 2:24
  Speaker B: No.
• 2:25
  Speaker A: So if you want to join us, just go to YouTube.com clearadmitmba you can subscribe to our YouTube channel and then you'll just get a notification the moment we go live. It is. It's all up on the website. And I actually, I'm just remembering now that I wanted to get this right, but I believe that the event itself is going to run, I want to say from 9:30am Eastern to 12:30pm Eastern. So it's kind of all morning long Eastern time. We'll be watching decisions, rolling in, chatting with admissions reps and just reporting on all the news. So should be fun. We'll see how it goes. And yeah, I can't wait. This was a lot of fun the first time around. And I know you joined us too, the first time. So we're bummed you're not around. But I'm sure you'll have a nice time on your vacation.
• 3:11
  Speaker B: Very good, Very good.
• 3:13
  Speaker A: We also have a bunch of other stuff in May that I've been harping on for the last several episodes. So I'll just be very brief here. But in May we do our NBA Fair. That's an in person event. This time it's in Atlanta, being hosted over at Georgia Tech Sheller. This is an amazing event and I really recommend it. A lot of people last year when we did it in Boston, people actually traveled to come to this event because it's so rare to have all these schools in one place. So if you're a prospective MBA candidate, definitely think about jumping on a cheap flight down to Atlanta. If you're not in the Atlanta area, we're going to have Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, mit, Chicago, Kellogg. I mean the list goes on. All the top schools. There are 25 or so schools that'll be there. You can talk with their admissions directors. We'll run panels, et cetera. And then also over the course of the month of May, later that month we'll do some virtual events with many of the same schools. I think we have about 18 schools taking part in virtual events and those are noon Eastern, May 19, 20, 26 and 27. You can sign up for all this stuff online and you do have to sign up, so go to clearadmit.comevents to do so. So lots cooking.
• 4:16
  Speaker B: Oh, it's brilliant. Yeah. And that event in Atlanta is going to be absolutely fantastic.
• 4:22
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. In the news and notes category this week, Uva Darden appointed Willie Green senior assistant Dean of Admissions. As some of our listeners know, Donna Clark had been at the helm at Darden for quite some time and then she kind of stepped into a different role at Darden as a special advisor to the dean, I think. And in the interim we've had Whitney Kestner and Brett Twitty kind of running the show there. They were interim co heads of admissions. But just the other day Darden announced that they've hired Willie Greene. And I just want to read you a little bit so you can get a sense of who this guy is. It says Green's career spans leadership roles at uva and Duke University as well as at Amazon and Google. He brings more than 15 years of talent recruitment experience across graduate admissions, strategic enrollment management and global talent leadership in both higher ed and tech. He began his career in undergraduate admissions before advancing into the MBA space. And at Google he led campus outreach strategy across leading US universities for undergrad masters, MBA and PhD pipelines. So this guy really seems perfectly suited. I mean he's got experience on both sides of kind of recruiting from MBA programs into big time tech companies, but also working in admissions at a couple of great institutions like uva and Duke in the past.
• 5:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, no fantastic cv. So let's hope that they picked a. Really. Sounds like they picked a really interesting candidate for this role.
• 5:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, and I will try to get him to come on the show, maybe do an admissions director Q and A because I'd love to just hear about, you know, the kind of tech recruiting stuff, but also just, yeah, his views on admissions. So I'll see what I can do.
• 6:09
  Speaker B: Hard to replace Donna Clark.
• 6:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, she's an industry vet. But anyway, we'll see how it goes. So that's the news out of Darden. On the website we did run an admissions tip. This one is interesting. It's about whether or not scholarship money should impact your choice of business school. And we see this, you know, when people post a decision wire, they're often like, oh, I got money here. What should that do regarding my decision? And I think there are really two things that we talk about in this tip that are important. I mean one of them is like career impact, right? So if you've got money from a school, but that school maybe isn't going to be as well suited to helping you achieve your career goals, whatever they may be, then you know, you got to really weigh that money. Right. So you need to think about would that, you know, with choosing like a lower tier school or a school that's not, you know, in your wheelhouse for the career you want, but taking that money, would that really be worth it as the trade off? And then the other thing we talk about in the article at length is that in some instances there's actually some prestige associated with getting a scholarship. So there's some schools where if you get a full ride or a half tuition the scholarship is named, and it's something you could put on the resume. Not to deny that either. If you go to a school and you're a special fellow or scholar and that's on your resume, that carries some weight, too, on the CV when recruiters are looking at you. There's a number of points in the article, but those were a couple that I just thought were interesting to tease out.
• 7:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. And we know through conversations and dialogue on Decision Wire that scholarship money does impact folks ability to make decisions. And we'll talk about that a little bit today with our Decision Wire folks. But, yeah, I think that it's fair to say, Graham Trend over the last several years is more and more scholarship money is available at the top programs.
• 8:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think Ken candidates are taking that more and more into account as well. So I think it's a different world than it used to be. It's a bit of an arms race. Schools are offering lots of money and. Yeah. So anyway, we will.
• 8:15
  Speaker B: There's probably a correlation between schools offering more money and increasing the price of their mba.
• 8:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. This is a classic pricing question. I mean, I think if you want to step back from it for a second, what happens is no one's paying sticker price or very few people pay sticker price anymore. And so effectively, if more than half of the students are getting a scholarship, then the actual rate is lower. So it. Yeah, it is interesting. That's why it's so important to not just look at the tuition price, but look at what do most students end up paying? Because that's.
• 8:44
  Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe we need to get Elliot to do a data. A data project on trends over the last 10 years for price of the MBA and see how that's trended up at each of the schools and then make some assertions about scholarship. I think. I think it would be a really interesting report. Yeah.
• 9:08
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I also, I have data on, you know, scholarship offers and how they've changed over the last, you know, 10 years because we've been running Decision Wire. So anyway, yeah, we'll get into some of this with the candidates you picked this week, too, as you point out. Before we do that, though, I want to talk about some real humans. So we're in the alumni phase of our Real Human series where we're talking to recent ish grads of MBA programs. And I want to start with a woman named Brittany who went to Chicago Booth, and she graduated back in 22. So she's been out in the workforce for a few years now. She is a product marketing manager at Microsoft. She's 34 years old, originally from Chicago, and she did her undergrad at University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign in communications and marketing. Then she did obviously an MBA at Chicago Booth. And before business school, in case you're curious, she was doing all kinds of marketing work. So she was a product marketing manager for a place called Build Trust. She also worked at a company called Mattersite, again all in kind of marketing management and sort of tech. Right. So that was her pre kind of MBA experience. I think she also did a little bit of work in health care, but again usually in marketing and comms, all these jobs. So after business school she joined Microsoft and she's now a product marketing manager. And we asked her for a piece of advice. We said, what's a piece of advice that you wish you'd been given during your mba? And she said, one piece of advice I wish someone had told me is to stay deeply grounded in my own career and personal goals. Business school is full of competing priorities, loud signals about what paths are best, and a lot of momentum towards certain industries. It's easy to get swept up in that energy. The most valuable thing you can do is stay anchored in what you actually want. Your strengths, your values, and the environments where you thrive. When you take the time to dig deep and trust your instincts about what's right for you, you make choices that lead to a far more fulfilling and sustainable career. So I thought that was. That fits with something you say a lot, Alex, about going into business school
• 11:12
  Speaker B: knowing what you want, have a plan, don't get distracted. I could summarize her advice in that sentence. Yeah.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: Yes. Although her quote was quite eloquent.
• 11:21
  Speaker B: Oh, a lot more eloquent than mine, but yeah, the sentiment is spot on. That said, and again, we've gotten different sort of almost contradictory type of advice from others that say business school is also a good time to experiment and explore. So balancing those two ideas, I think is quite important.
• 11:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. And one other thing I wanted to share from Brittany is that we asked her about the recruiting process at Microsoft. And I know some of our listeners do want to work in tech. I thought they'd be interested in this. I know I was when I read this. So we just asked, were there any surprises during the recruiting process? And she said one surprising part of recruiting process at Microsoft is how much emphasis they place on team matching rather than just the interview itself. Especially for MBA roles, the process often includes an internal effort to pair you with a team whose needs, working style, and strategic priorities align. With your strengths. It's not always obvious from the outside, but this matching step can shape your entire experience. In my case, it led to a role and team where my background could be a real asset and made the transition into the company much smoother. So, yeah, apparently they're not just interviewing and saying, yeah, you're good for a job. They're trying to figure out like what team they're going to put you on. Exactly. And I believe she didn't say this, but I think I've read elsewhere that you sort of have all these interviews with everyone that you would be working with and they're quite thorough in that regard.
• 12:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, again, it makes perfect sense.
• 12:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. The other real human I want to kind of share with our listeners this week is we talked to Richard, who went to Notre Dame Mendoza. He graduated in 2019. So he's been out in the workforce for, what is it, six plus, maybe seven years at this point. And he is a CEO, senior product manager at Amazon. He's 38 years old, originally from Houston where he did his undergrad at the University of Houston. As I said, he went to Mendoza for his MBA at Notre Dame, but he also has a law degree from Indiana University. So pretty degreed guy. And he had worked, I guess he said he was a founder and owner of a small business for seven years, but he also worked in the legal field as a kind of did clerkships, worked as an associate during law school. So he had kind of a mix of experiences heading into business school. And he has been working initially he worked, it sounds like in the sort of travel space. So he worked at Delta, American Airlines, Royal Caribbean. And then the last three years he's been at Amazon focusing on product strategy, customer loyalty and engagement. And we asked him for any advice he wished he'd been given during his mba. And he said, first, treat your career like a marathon, not a sprint. It's tempting to chase the highest starting salary, the most prestigious industry or the most recognizable logo. However, long term success usually comes from doing work you genuinely enjoy and can sustain at a high level. When you care about the work, you naturally go the extra mile. Those dividends compound over time. And then he says, second, think of your job search like a funnel start broad by identifying the industry that genuinely interests you. Then narrow to the right company, finally refined to the right function and role. I began with travel and airlines as my industry focus and applied across multiple companies and functions. Loyalty was not originally the plan, but exposure within the industry helped me discover a space that I loved and ultimately built a career around and finally take full advantage of being. In his case, he says, at Notre Dame, go to the football games, spend time at the grotto, take the immersion trips. The relationships and shared experiences you built build there are far harder to recreate than a recruiting cycle. Go Irish. So he's, he's drinking the Kool Aid over there, but yeah. What do you think of all that?
• 15:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very, very good. Obviously, I'm a big proponent of loyalty loyalty programs and I think discovering loyalty and your passion for loyalty, working at airlines is probably a good, a good match. And now deploying that at Amazon. Very good.
• 15:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And there was one other thing that we asked him that I wanted to share before we get into the candidates. And I, we just asked him, is there anything he would do differently about his job search? And he said, this is interesting. He said, I would have paused more to enjoy the process and focus more on building deeper relationships. Recruiting can feel intense, but if you're at a school like Notre Dame and doing what you need to do, you're going to be okay. Some of the most valuable relationships I built came from casual conversations, not formal interviews or events. And then he says, enjoy the free food and take a long term perspective. The person you connect with over a low pressure coffee chat may not end up helping you land your first job, but they may help you land your fifth. So I think that's a good philosophy as well.
• 16:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm guessing they had a coffee with an Amazon recruiter.
• 16:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, maybe. Yeah, that kind of led to where they are now, but yeah. Anyway, very interesting stuff. As always, if you want to reach out to Alex or me, you can write to infoearadmit.com just use the subject line wiretaps. But without further ado, I guess we're ready to get into this week's candidates.
• 16:32
  Speaker B: Alex, let's kick on.
• 16:33
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps Candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has a very impressive list of target schools. They are Chicago Booth, Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Wharton and Stanford. So six of the M7 on their list there, they are applying deferred enrollment. Enrollment. So they're thinking they're not going to start until 2028, but they're hoping to get in as a college senior, go off and work for a few years, and then start business school. They are, it's not in stone yet, but they're thinking of doing something in the startup domain or entrepreneurship before they matriculate to business school and post MBA they just wrote other industries. They seem like they're not yet certain they have taken the GRE and they secured a 310 on the test. They have a 4.1 GPA. They're located in Pasadena, California. They're hoping to land in New York at some point after business school. And they do note that they are, they have a 4.1 GPA from a top 10 university in STEM and that they're planning on doing entrepreneurship post college during the deferred years. I'm going to go out on a limb and take a guess that maybe they're at Caltech or one of these really great STEM schools and they're doing exceedingly, exceedingly well with that 4.1 GPA. But Alex, you had some concerns and I want to get into that with you. So what do you make of this candidacy for a deferred enrollment campaign here?
• 17:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I, I, for a lot of these deferred enrollment deadlines, I think they still have a few weeks. I know we're hitting around three deadlines but schools like Harvard or whatever, they tend to have the deferred enrollment deadline a little bit later, so, so they've got a little bit of time. I would retake that gre. I mean I think someone that's as smart as this person likely is with demonstrated academic prowess getting a 310 GRE is not going to do them any favors at all. And as a deferred admissions candidate they have less data points for which MBA admissions officers can use to assess the candidacy. That puts more scrutiny on the standardized test in my book. And 310 is probably not going to cut it at the schools that they're targeting. So I would absolutely do whatever they can over the next couple of three weeks and really push to get that test up into the high 300 20s. I mean it's a significant step change up. But if they're as smart as their GPA suggests, it's probably within their, their ability to do that. So other than that, the only other sort of A couple of other quick things. I was a bit surprised has is not on the list. I assume they have a deferred admissions program.
• 19:32
  Speaker A: They do.
• 19:33
  Speaker B: It would seem that HASS would fit quite well for this candidate. They've got to demonstrate either a prowess or experience in sort of startups or entrepreneurship maybe through any internship that they've undertaken to date. Other experiences maybe as a solopreneur or whatever they might have been doing whilst a student at their university. Any leadership opportunities that they've taken advantage of on campus will also be important to articulate. So these are all sort of standard aspects of what would then make a strong deferred admissions candidate. But that 310 is going to hurt them. Great.
• 20:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, I could not agree more. It's almost like sort of table stakes. Like, you know, if you're deferred, you know, the numbers matter. As you say, they have less numbers to go on in the first place because they don't have a lot of work experience or, you know, quantitative accomplishments that you could point to. So I think, yeah, retaking that test would be really important. I did wonder if maybe, I mean, this is maybe maybe they're really good at math if they're in a technical STEM university. And maybe that 310 is low because they have not done well in the verbal. I don't know. But they need to up their game. And as you say, high 320s is where most people need to land for these deferred enrollment programs. So I would recommend they retake like you and then. Yeah, the rest of it for me was I just wanted to know more about this candidate. They didn't give us a lot. It'd be good to know what they're doing outside of class and even to have a little bit more information around their startup, entrepreneurship kind of goals and what they hope to do. But yeah, and as you say, Berkeley could be an option. I mean, they do say they want to land in New York in the longer term, but. But obviously Berkeley has a pretty big network in New York too. And for the short term, could be a good network to tap into if they're looking to be in the Bay Area in the deferred period. So in any event. Yeah, so there's potential here, but I feel like this candidate is resting a little bit on this stellar GPA from a STEM top 10 university. And they're not aware that it's going to take a little more than that. That.
• 21:43
  Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
• 21:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. In any event, I want to wish them the best of luck. As you say, they still have a few weeks, I believe, till a lot of these deadlines, which are in April. So maybe buckle up, try to get that higher test score and best of luck and we'll see how it turns out.
• 21:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, best of luck to them. And if it doesn't turn out, they can still obviously reapply when the time comes. And if. And when they do do that, if they need to do that. Absolutely. Make sure that GRE score is more competitive.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. All right, well, let's turn our attention to wiretaps. Candid number two. So our second candidate this week is from a decision wire entry. We've now hit that time of the year where there are a lot of people sharing their decisions and their decision dilemmas on the site. So we're going to profile those as we get them in. So this person applied to Cambridge, Judge Carnegie, Mallon, Tepper, Emery, ESADE HEC Paris, IMD in Lausanne and then NYU Stern. Just as a disclosure, the NYU Stern program is the one year MBA that's offered in Abu Dhabi. So they applied to those schools, they ended up with some offers. They got into Cambridge with no money, Emory with no money. IMD gave them a 38,000 Euro scholarship offer and they also were accepted to the stern one year MBA in Abu Dhabi with a $43,000 scholarship. So they've got those four offers and they, you know, they haven't decided. They're currently located in India in case you're curious. They had a 655 on the GMAT and a 76 percentile. 76%, sorry, GPA, all that out of India. So you know, their, their big thing is that they would like to work in the Middle east. And you know, they did strike that. They're kind of leaning towards Stern as a result of that. But Alex, what do you make of these offers? I mean it's a kind of a, it's sort of a mixed, a real mixed group of schools. Like not in terms of quality but just in terms of like location and, and you know, offering one year, you know, two years, like it's a little mixed. So I'm curious what you, what you make of all this.
• 23:52
  Speaker B: I think the obvious answer on, on the surface is Stern at Abu Dhabi makes sense if they want to be in the Middle east post mba that would, you know, you would presume the student body in that program has a very similar sort of aspirations. They're all probably there to develop their careers further in the Middle East. So from an alumni perspective that would make a lot of sense. As you pointed out before we came on air, that is a one year program versus a more traditional two year program. So that, that would should factor into their decision making. Right. And so forth. But you know, we're in the middle of a war, so maybe some of my perspective has been reshaped a little bit over the last couple of weeks in terms of would I want to do an MBA in that region, how stable is it, and so on and so forth. So they've got to factor that in too, I suppose. But yeah, on the surface, Graham, I would say Stern in Abu Dhabi makes the best sense.
• 24:59
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean CERN is giving them a nice scholarship. It's the biggest sort of top ranked program on the list. I think most would argue that it's a top. Everyone would say it's top 15 US MBA program and probably trumps the others on the list. To your point though, I do agree. Wow. There's a whole new level of risk in that region of the world that wasn't there. And with that risk, I guess potentially comes opportunity. There could be. I mean this is sort of hard to envision, but if for some reason things were to work out and there were a more prolonged period of peace in the Middle east, there could be a lot of prosperity and opportunity. But that's a big roll of the dice, right? And so, yeah, I mean, I think people are concerned about that region right now. And so that was leading me to say, oh, I wonder, going to sort of IMD with that scholarship, also a one year program, 38,000 Euro scholarship in the safety of Lausanne, Switzerland, and then knowing that that's an international school with a very international network could probably project them back into the Middle east if they wanted. You could say the same thing for Cambridge. In fact, you might even argue that Cambridge's brand is maybe the strongest kind of global brand on the list. Not necessarily for the NBA, but just more broadly. But Cambridge isn't giving them any money at all, so that's where that gets a little tricky. So anyway, I'm probably overcomplicating this, but I would say if they are bit queasy about heading to Abu Dhabi in the middle of a war that is impacting all those nations around the Gulf, then there are some other options on their list that could help them get to the Middle east and would be pursued in a safer environment.
• 26:39
  Speaker B: I think you make a really good point though. Optionality, keeping options open into the future. You might argue that IND or Cambridge would be the better program versus versus Stern, just from that one perspective, because it's clear being at Stern in Abu Dhabi places you in the region in which you want to work, right?
• 27:04
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. And the only other thing I would say, and I don't have the stats in front of me, but I would imagine that the diversity of students at Cambridge and IMD may be greater than that at NYU Stern in Abu Dhabi, which probably appeals to the local crowd and maybe India and Pakistan and sort of that region. So maybe less. Again, I'd have to pull up the numbers, but my suspicion would be that that's the case. So yeah, just all things to consider. Obviously they're very fortunate. They've gotten into four really great schools. It is occurring to me that offer from Emory might be for the one. Emory does have an accelerated program too, so it could be that these are all one year offerings. But again, the money from IMD and Stern sort of jumps out. So they should focus there probably to start. In any event, I want to wish them luck and I really appreciate them sharing not only their dilemma, but then weighing in when Elliot and our team sort of peppered them with some questions. So that was really helpful.
• 27:58
  Speaker B: Very good.
• 27:58
  Speaker A: All right, let's turn our attention to wiretaps. Candidate number three. All right, so this candidate, again, another decision, wire entry. And this person applied to Carnegie Mellon, Tepper, Duke, hec, the Indian School of Business, Michigan, Ross and Northwestern, Kellogg. And as of now, they've received offer offers at hec, the Indian School of Business and Carnegie Mellon. Tepper and Tepper actually gave them a $65,000 scholarship. This candidate did tell us they're still waiting to hear from Kellogg. They applied to Kellogg in round two, so they'll find out any day now. They took the GMAT and had a 715 on the test. Very good score there. A 3.4 undergraduate GPA. This candidate is also located in India and they're thinking about product management consulting or sustainability post mba. They did work prior to business school here. They've been working as a product engineer for three years and as a sustainability lead for a sports good manufacturing company in India. They say that they're confused about the options they have because they mentioned Tepper giving them this option offer. Oh, one thing that I, that they failed to put in here, but they mentioned in the notes is that they applied to UNC Kenan Flagler as well and they were accepted and given a full ride. Okay. So just to keep score here, Tepper's given them, what is it, 65 grand or something? UNC full ride. And then they have the. They're kind of waiting on Kellogg and they have these offers at ATC and Indian School Business. So they're worried about job opportunities for international in the US out of Tepper and unc, but they are waiting on Kellogg. So. Yeah. What do you, what do you think this person should do?
• 29:45
  Speaker B: I think they should.
• 29:45
  Speaker A: Let's, let's imagine they get into Kellogg.
• 29:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, if they get into Kellogg, are they going to get money? Right? Because obviously that's quite a big issue for them, but fingers crossed they get into Kellogg, maybe they get get some generous scholarship support. But I think that free ride, full ride, I should say at Kenan Flagler is very compelling because it really
• 30:09
  Speaker A: for
• 30:09
  Speaker B: the candidates in terms of post MBA career opportunities, when they're getting a free ride, it still provides them a US experience. Hopefully they then can parlay that into some additional career in the US first, but it certainly helps mitigate some of that risk. I would imagine that they're sort of debating a little bit between Tepper and Kenan Flagler and thinking TEPA might be better positioned for that post career for them in terms of aligning with their goals and so on and so forth. But Kenan Flagler and Tepper are effectively in my book anyway. Perhaps not in yours, Graham, but in my book they're in the same tier and with that full ride, I think Kenan Flagler is a great option for them.
• 30:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, this is an interesting one because I sense that this person based in India is worried about, oh, I'm going to go to the us, get this degree and then can I stay or not? And obviously these MBA programs are STEM and for now they in theory can stay for three years and work and ideally work their way towards an H1B which we know doesn't have the fee attached to it if you're already living and working in the States. But I understand, I mean these are sort of tumultuous times. The US has been going through lots of kind of sort of on a yo yo with some of the policies and immigration stuff. So I understand it. And just like you, that's where that UNC offered with a full scholarship makes a ton of sense to me. For now, obviously we'll see what happens with Kellogg. I'm going to guess that if they get into Kellogg it'll be with a lot less money than they're getting at Tepper or unc. So again, if they're really risk averse, but they'd love to have a US experience, I was thinking about if they go to the Indian School of Business or hec, they're pretty much guaranteeing themselves that they're going to land back in India. I think it is harder to stay in Europe. It happens, but it is harder. You've got to line up a job job, unlike in the States where you're given the sort of three years to work. So yeah, it's a little tricky and obviously Indian school business, most of the placements are going to come in India. So if they want to sort of spread their wings and do something different and have an international career. Going to one of the American schools makes a lot of sense. And right now, UNC with a free ride seems really compelling. I will add that UNC is kind of the darling of a lot of companies because they always score very well in terms of what employers think about the hires out of that program. And I think it's due to the way the curriculum is structured, because it's actually. Actually structured around specific jobs. Like, there's a consulting track and so, like, the majors are around jobs you want as opposed to, like, subject areas or that. That's probably a very crude way of putting it, but that's more or less what they do there, and it's very effective. So, yeah, so I think there's a lot. Obviously they have a lot of offers here. Hopefully they get into Kellogg2 to further complicate things. But they. I'm leaning towards them coming to the States at one of these programs that's. That's offering that them.
• 33:05
  Speaker B: Very good. I completely agree.
• 33:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. So in any event, that's going to do it for this week's episode. Appreciate you picking these out. I love debating the decision wire post. I know sometimes we get in trouble with the schools. You're like, hey, you told that candidate to go here. There. But I think it really is fascinating to see these debates and to know that for every candidate, the answer is not always going to be the same thing based on their goals. All kinds of things. Geography, war. There's a lot in play right now. So any event, thanks for picking these out, Alex, and we'll do it all again next week.
• 33:36
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care. I'll be on the beach.
• 33:40
  Speaker A: All right, See you soon.