Latest / Travel Mug Podcast / Travel Chat with the 'World's Most Traveled Man' Harry Mitsidis

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Travel Chat with the 'World's Most Traveled Man' Harry Mitsidis · Travel Mug Podcast

0:00
Meggan: Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Travel Mug podcast.
0:02
Meggan: Jenn and I are so excited to be joined this week by Harry Mitsidis.
0:06
Meggan: Harry founded Nomad Mania, which is an online hub of 20 plus thousand independent travelers offering powerful tracking and planning tools for travel adventures, including an Instagram of the same name with over 10,000 followers as well, which is excellent.
0:24
Meggan: He is ranked number one, I'd like to say, in terms of region's travel on both Nomad Mania and its competitor site MTP.
0:33
Meggan: He is one of three people in the world who have visited every single country twice.
0:40
Meggan: Yes, twice heard me that correctly and had visited them all once by the time he was 36 and now he's moved on to regions of which there are 1281, which we'll talk about more later.
0:54
Meggan: And fun fact, he has visited 1,183, so welcome Harry to the podcast.
1:01
Harry: Hello.
1:01
Harry: Thanks very much for having me here.
1:05
Jenn: Oh, we're so excited.
1:06
Jenn: So I am curious, have you visited Nova Scotia where Meggan and I live?
1:11
Harry: Well, of course I've visited Nova How, how could I not be, uh, interested in Nova Scotia?
1:18
Harry: I think I've been there three times and I was actually in Nova Scotia in August last year, so, uh, yeah, yeah, I had an in-depth, experience there.
1:29
Harry: Yeah, it's great.
1:30
Harry: There's so many things to see.
1:32
Harry: It's a hidden gem.
1:33
Harry: Well hidden
1:34
Jenn: Yeah.
1:35
Jenn: Yeah.
1:35
Jenn: Well hidden.
1:36
Jenn: Yeah.
1:37
Jenn: Most people we talk to are like, you live where?
1:41
Harry: right?
1:42
Harry: Yeah.
1:42
Harry: Yeah.
1:42
Harry: Well, where are you in Nova Scotia?
1:46
Jenn: Um, so I am in, on the South Shore, so I'm just about an hour south of Lunenberg.
1:52
Harry: Okay.
1:52
Jenn: So most people visit Lunenberg when they visit Nova Scotia.
1:55
Jenn: Yeah, I'm about an hour south of that in Liverpool.
1:58
Harry: Okay.
1:59
Harry: I think I passed it because I drove from Lunenberg South all the way, and then I ended, um, oh God.
2:06
Harry: I'm bad with names, but I ended up, I think on Bria Island.
2:10
Harry: Does is, did
2:10
Jenn: Oh, briar
2:11
Harry: Briar?
2:11
Harry: Yeah.
2:12
Harry: Yeah.
2:12
Jenn: Briar.
2:13
Harry: Yeah.
2:13
Harry: Yeah, yeah, So that, that was my highlight.
2:15
Harry: I love that place.
2:17
Harry: So, uh, yeah.
2:19
Harry: Nova Scotia.
2:20
Harry: You know, if, if anyone is listening should be on everyone's to-do list.
2:24
Harry: So, and I'm not getting a commission
2:26
Jenn: jWe didn't pay you to say that
2:30
Meggan: And of and course we completely agree.
2:33
Meggan: We completely agree.
2:35
Meggan: So we do have a lot to chat about, but tell us how you found your passion for traveling and why does exploring the world matter to you so much?
2:46
Harry: Well, um.
2:48
Harry: I was born into a mixed family in terms of nationalities.
2:52
Harry: So my mom is South African born who then moved to England.
2:57
Harry: My dad's Greek.
2:59
Harry: Uh, they met in England when he was a student there.
3:02
Harry: So I think from the start.
3:04
Harry: Um, you know when, when you're born into a family like that, you are already aware of the fact that there are different countries that are very different.
3:13
Harry: You understand all these things that maybe other people don't until much later.
3:18
Harry: And I was lucky to have parents who liked traveling as well.
3:22
Harry: Uh, they were quite curious.
3:24
Harry: They did some monumental trips in the sixties before I was born that, you know, that they went by car through all of the Eastern European countries, which were deeply communist back then.
3:36
Harry: You know, no one would do that.
3:37
Harry: So I'm definitely my parents offspring.
3:41
Harry: Um, I think it just happened gradually.
3:44
Harry: I was always curious about the world, um, and it didn't happen very early on.
3:50
Harry: It's no something that I was particularly interested in when I was a teenager.
3:55
Harry: I always loved getting on a plane, but I had a lot of other interests.
3:59
Harry: I didn't ever imagine that I'd be a traveler.
4:02
Harry: I think it was partially me rejecting the norm, me rejecting the kind of nine to five lifestyle.
4:10
Harry: Um, as I grew older, uh, I am an Aquarian, so I'm by nature quite rebellious and, uh.
4:17
Harry: You know, do things my own way, which is nobody else's way.
4:20
Harry: And then I think I, I did an internship in Vietnam, which really changed the way, um, I saw the world, you know, Vietnam back then was not really touristy like it is now.
4:32
Harry: Uh, and that experience was really opened my eyes.
4:36
Harry: So, uh, it happened gradually.
4:38
Harry: And then I think once I hit You know, 80 countries and went further away.
4:43
Harry: I just got addicted.
4:44
Harry: It, it really is an addiction and, and now I'm happily addicted until the end of my days.
4:53
Meggan: Excellent.
4:53
Meggan: We, we love the travel addiction so that works For us.
4:58
Jenn: For sure.
4:59
Jenn: So fast forward a little bit, bring us to kind of the creation of Nomad Mania, how it came to be and kind of what its main goal and purpose is.
5:08
Harry: Well, I was a very avid user of MTP which is now our competitor.
5:14
Harry: Um, and what what happened was that there was a point when MTP stopped developing.
5:19
Harry: Nothing much was happening with it, and I wasn't very satisfied with the way they divided the world back then, I thought there was way too much emphasis on some rocks and not really on, you know, big countries in Africa, for example.
5:34
Harry: So, uh, I thought, why don't I try to make a list which makes more sense, which divides countries in a reasonable way, where, for example, a huge country like Algeria.
5:46
Harry: Gets more credit than say, Slovenia, you know, something like that.
5:51
Harry: And um, and so that was the initial idea and uh, and it was launched and a few travelers got into it.
5:58
Harry: But you know, when you launch something new, um, I.
6:01
Harry: It, it does take a while to get traction.
6:04
Harry: I think gradually, because our list was so good and because I was passionate about it, we expanded and, and now I think we've changed focus a lot.
6:16
Harry: So nomad mania is of course.
6:19
Harry: Uh, a website with lists, but now we are much more than just lists.
6:23
Harry: Now we are a social, you know, network in a way where people meet often.
6:28
Harry: We have lots of events.
6:30
Harry: Uh, we have our own trips.
6:31
Harry: Well, we, we don't actually execute them, but we brand them and we work on a itineraries that are Unusual that, that people cannot really, uh, find anywhere else.
6:44
Harry: and, and we also do scholarships, uh, for people who are not able to travel.
6:49
Harry: So we have offered some scholarships as well.
6:51
Harry: So I would say now from an initial beginning of wanting to divide the world rationally and in a way that can really, uh, create a map that makes sense.
7:03
Harry: We've now developed into the sort of, travel club for everyone who likes traveling beyond the obvious, that's the idea.
7:11
Harry: And it's all free
7:13
Jenn: Yeah, it seems really community focused.
7:17
Jenn: I really like is it's, um, a way to kind of meet new people who are interested in the same thing or maybe, um, have been to a place where you wanna go and you can kind of help each other.
7:28
Jenn: And I, I really like that aspect of it.
7:29
Jenn: That's really cool.
7:31
Harry: Yeah, I mean, for me, the benefit from all of this has in fact been meeting incredible people.
7:37
Harry: Uh, it, it's, you know, I never thought when I started it back then, that was sort of in 2011, 2012, I didn't really know many travelers and I was certainly not known by travelers.
7:51
Harry: I, I've always been a bit, a bit of an introvert.
7:54
Harry: Even though that seems a bit strange, but I am, I'm one of those extroverted introverts, you know, uh, Um, I think, yeah, meeting people who come in all shapes and sizes from incredible backgrounds with really interesting personalities, uh, that is what it's all about.
8:13
Harry: Um, and, and you meet that both from the travelers themselves, and then of course when you travel in a place, We've met incredible people there too, you know, and that that is the, the big joy of travel.
8:26
Meggan: Oh, 100%.
8:28
Meggan: I couldn't agree more.
8:29
Meggan: And you, you covered it a little bit, but.
8:31
Meggan: You know, in getting ready for this episode, we were thinking like, who is your sort of target audience that uses, if you have one that Nomad Mania is for, and then in a grander sense, so two part question I guess.
8:44
Meggan: How do you feel that Nomad Mania is impacting the world of, of travel through these individuals using the site?
8:52
Harry: Um, I'm gonna start with the second question first.
8:56
Harry: I have observed much to my incredible surprise that people really make travel decisions based on nomad mania.
9:03
Harry: Uh, I would've never believed it, but yeah, because we divided the world in.
9:09
Harry: In the way we did, and then people were challenged to say, go to all the regions of Mali.
9:15
Harry: And not only, you know where, where most tourists go, or you know, in Mali it doesn't even have that many divisions, but when you've got say, I don't know, the Democratic Republic of Congo with 13 divisions.
9:28
Harry: I've seen people really try to plan trips to go there, and that has really surprised me because many of these people are incredibly accomplished individuals and here they are following Nomad Mania.
9:40
Harry: I'm like, yeah, you know, so that is one of the contributions, maybe the most obvious one, but I do think that the other one is just getting the people together.
9:51
Harry: We do that really well.
9:53
Harry: Uh, and I think I've heard from a few travelers who say a nomad mania trip is like no other, because it's a collection of really well traveled people, but somehow nobody has an ego because how can you have an ego when everyone else is just as well traveled?
10:11
Harry: So even if you do secretly have an ego, you kind of drop it when you're with the others.
10:16
Harry: And I think that that's really great.
10:18
Harry: We get really, really great energy from that.
10:21
Harry: Everyone leaves these trips saying, wow, you know, I love it.
10:25
Harry: So that's that part.
10:26
Harry: Now, in terms of who we aiming for, I mean, the site is open to everybody and all you need to do is register, make an account, you know, we are friendly.
10:36
Harry: Um, as long as people are say tolerant, not bigoted, you know, kind of the obvious.
10:42
Harry: But, um, more specifically, I would say we, we aim for people who look at the world, um, in a more sort of, perhaps in a more niche way.
10:53
Harry: Uh, you know, who wouldn't choose Dubai or.
10:56
Harry: Ibiza, or I don't know Orlando for their holiday, but who might choose Nova Scotia for example?
11:03
Harry: You know, that kind of person who thinks maybe a little bit out of the box.
11:09
Harry: we do have all types of people as members, so we have families who are very enthusiastic about traveling.
11:15
Harry: We've got individual travelers.
11:17
Harry: We've got people who often use agencies to travel.
11:20
Harry: So I think we, we do have a broad segement.
11:24
Harry: I think what, what links these people is that they are interested in places that maybe the majority has never heard of, and would never consider going to.
11:34
jenn_1_01-16-2024_145934: Yeah, I love that.
11:35
jenn_1_01-16-2024_145934: So we've mentioned the um, 1,281 regions a couple of times.
11:40
jenn_1_01-16-2024_145934: So how did you come up with this number?
11:43
jenn_1_01-16-2024_145934: What was the process of kind of dividing the world into regions?
11:46
Harry: Okay.
11:47
Harry: If I may correct you, it's now 1,301.
11:52
Harry: So it was
11:53
Jenn: Oh.
11:54
Harry: it it, it was 1,281 until a few years ago.
12:01
Harry: Uh, but initially when, we launched it was 1,221.
12:06
Harry: So, well, the logic was this.
12:08
Harry: There's 193 countries in the UN.
12:12
Harry: So, you know, that is like a baseline.
12:14
Harry: And of course these countries come in, you know, various sizes, uh, various populations, you know, you have big ones, small ones.
12:22
Harry: So I think in my head, I.
12:24
Harry: Multiplying by six overall seemed good.
12:28
Harry: You know, and obviously, uh, when I say multiply by six, I mean if you look at the world globally, we're trying to get a number that's six times the number of countries.
12:38
Harry: Uh, and obviously then, you know, countries like.
12:41
Harry: Uh, Canada or Russia or China or the US you know, the big ones will get very many divisions and, you know, countries like Albania or I don't know, Costa Rica will get much fewer.
12:54
Harry: But ultimately I thought about 1,200 is doable.
12:59
Harry: Uh, it's not excessive in the sense of being totally like 5,000 where you totally lose count.
13:06
Harry: It's still manageable.
13:08
Harry: Uh.
13:09
Harry: Shows the diversity of the world adequately, because I think if people focus only on the countries, they're missing out on all these regional divisions and the complexity that countries have.
13:22
Harry: So I think that was the ballpark number.
13:24
Harry: And we've never really strayed much from it.
13:27
Harry: We have increased a bit, but we, we, we are not planning on making it much bigger than that.
13:32
Harry: No.
13:33
Jenn: Yeah, that makes sense.
13:35
Jenn: And I totally agree because you know, we have people that say, oh, I'm, I'm coming to Canada, or I've been to Canada, and you know, they think they're going to be close to us and they're going to Vancouver, or going to Toronto, and we're like.
13:48
Jenn: That, I mean, we're not close to that at all.
13:52
Jenn: So, yeah.
13:53
Jenn: And, and our culture, of course here in Nova Scotia is completely different than Toronto or um, Alberta or Vancouver.
14:01
Jenn: And it's just, it, you can't really judge one and the other the same.
14:05
Jenn: It's, it's a totally different place even though we're all within Canada.
14:09
Jenn: So I, I love the regions, um, divided up like that.
14:13
Jenn: I think that's really cool and I hadn't really thought about it that way before.
14:17
Harry: Yeah.
14:18
Harry: Yeah.
14:18
Meggan: Changing hearts and minds right here today.
14:21
Harry: Yeah.
14:23
Harry: Yeah.
14:24
Harry: Well, I'm, I'm sure I be popular in Nova Scotia after this.
14:30
Meggan: I can guarantee it.
14:32
Meggan: Now, do you think that, um, and I'm sure, because you mentioned, you know, there are some really well traveled people that take part in, in nomad mania.
14:41
Meggan: Do you think sort of travel challenges like trying to visit every country or region like we've mentioned.
14:49
Meggan: Do you think it makes it into a competition or, or does it even matter?
14:52
Meggan: Is that sort of, you know, are, are you sort of looking to expand the minds of others?
14:56
Meggan: Therefore, it is a challenge?
14:58
Meggan: Like how do you feel about that aspect of it?
15:01
Harry: Well, I think that ultimately lies with the individual.
15:05
Harry: Yeah.
15:05
Harry: I don't think that the concept itself makes it a competition.
15:10
Harry: I think, uh, the idea of it is to kind of showcase the fact that the world is much more complex than just countries.
15:18
Harry: And, and that is a fact.
15:20
Harry: I mean, we're not making it up.
15:22
Harry: Okay.
15:22
Harry: The, the, the way that we divided it may be seen as arbitrary and yeah, sometimes we have to make some good guesses.
15:29
Harry: So definitely we may not be perfect and, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm sure that someone else could have perhaps come up with different divisions, but, um, I don't think it's competitive as such.
15:41
Harry: There are some people who look at it that way, and I would say some can be really obsessive.
15:47
Harry: You know, their life's goal is to, to, you know, finish the nomad mania list, for example.
15:52
Harry: Uh, I personally really, um, don't have any such aspirations, and I know people may say, but you are ranked first anyway.
16:00
Harry: But I'm not ranked first because I wanna finish the list.
16:04
Harry: I'm ranked first because I'm curious about the world and, and I just really want to see whatever I can.
16:11
Harry: so yeah, I, I wouldn't say that competition is the primary, uh, either aim or feature of it.
16:17
Harry: Of course, some people do see it as competitive travel, but ultimately that's the choice to frame it that way.
16:25
Jenn: Right.
16:25
Jenn: Yeah.
16:26
Jenn: That's, that's just some people's nature I guess.
16:29
Jenn: And you can't help that .Um, so obviously traveling all over the world does come with responsibility and the platform that you have does have some influence.
16:39
Jenn: So what role do you feel like you play with your impact on those who follow you, um, on your, your work adventures around the world?
16:49
Harry: Well, I personally, I mean if you're talking to me as Harry, I'm kind of a bit out of it, um, because I'm this introvert, right?
16:58
Harry: So I, myself, I'm not really much into social media.
17:02
Harry: Uh, I make sure that I calibrate if you want my appearances so that I'm, I'm not out there too much.
17:09
Harry: I also don't want the, the name of Nomad Mania to be associated with me all the time.
17:15
Harry: Uh, I do feel some people think, you know, it's all about Harry, but, but you know, we do have a team and right now we've got, um, you know, a very trusted partner who's kind of the boss and doing things there.
17:27
Harry: So, um, I dunno if I as an individual really influence other people.
17:34
Harry: I, I'm a really simple guy and, and you know, no one recognized me in the street or anything, so not as if people are asking before an autograph.
17:43
Harry: So, uh, and you know, because I don't put out content of my own, you know, I'm not a YouTuber and, and I'm, I'm, my Instagram is actually, uh, a private one.
17:53
Harry: So you, you've got to actually uh, kind of ask in order to follow it.
17:58
Harry: So I don't think I am influencing people now.
18:00
Harry: Nomad mania on the other hand might be.
18:04
Harry: Um, I don't exactly know in which way, I mean, we are trying to, uh, come up with a lot of content, which sensitizes people to a lot of issues around travel.
18:17
Harry: Some of them, uh, have discussed a lot.
18:19
Harry: Things like sort of, uh, gender inequality.
18:23
Harry: You know, we just came up with a very, extensive report on the people who visit every country.
18:29
Harry: and we, you know, through a lot of research, we, we came up with a number of, um, only 15% of those are actually women.
18:37
Harry: So, you know, where are we want, we want people to think about it.
18:41
Harry: Why?
18:42
Harry: Why are there so few women comparatively who have done this?
18:45
Harry: Is it because they're not interested?
18:47
Harry: Or is it because there are, you know, factors that make it harder for women?
18:52
Harry: So, this is just one example.
18:54
Harry: We, we have had themes of sustainability because obviously we all travel a lot and these are things that we do care about.
19:02
Harry: You know, it's not like we, we do it in the void.
19:04
Harry: We had one very successful theme on mental health and how travel impact mental health or mental health impacts travel?
19:13
Harry: You know, it goes both ways and we saw that the community really responded to that.
19:18
Harry: We had, we have occasional polls where people give their opinions.
19:22
Harry: And on the mental health one, I was personally shocked to see how many total strangers were willing to open their hearts, you know, and, and confess things that I would've thought were quite personal, you know, in a poll, which, which linked to mental health.
19:38
Harry: So I definitely think that we, we are having an effect by making our community think about travel as a multidimensional uh, thing, you know, it's not just you go somewhere and then you come back and that's it.
19:53
Harry: You know, there's a lot in at interplay here, and I think we're, you know, we're, we're, our aim is to make people realize this.
20:02
Meggan: Yeah.
20:02
Meggan: And, and we've actually talked about mental health and travel here on the podcast prior, as well as sustainability.
20:08
Meggan: Two things you just mentioned, and travel itself is a detriment to the environment among other things, what do you feel . Having said what you just said is the responsibility of big travelers in particular in this regard, like what do you feel they're doing or you're doing to sort of counteract that impact?
20:30
Harry: Yeah.
20:30
Harry: Yeah.
20:30
Harry: Um, thanks for that question.
20:32
Harry: It's always a very tricky one to answer when I have like more than three and a half thousand flights on my CV and, uh,
20:40
Meggan: I understand.
20:41
Harry: Yeah.
20:42
Harry: But, but having said that, well first of all, what I always say, you know, at the beginning, a bit defensively perhaps, is that, um, when you're traveling, you are also opening the local people's eyes to who you are.
20:58
Harry: If you are a good traveler in the sense of being kind, being tolerant, uh, bringing good energy, then in a way you are a bit of an ambassador of the world and this really matters when you are in places which are not really exposed to the world so much.
21:13
Harry: You know, maybe this doesn't matter so much in Italy or France, which are popular, but if you're going to Northern Benin and they haven't seen the foreigner for, you know, months, then you actually may have a big role to play there.
21:27
Harry: You know, like foreigners are not all bad and you know, these things can influence the way local people see the world.
21:35
Harry: So I think this is an important thing and an important plus, which can to a certain extent, offset the negative in terms of environmental aspects.
21:46
Harry: Now, having said that, we also promote very much this local community eco way of traveling where you do benefit the locals.
21:57
Harry: You try to choose local agents, and that way you are helping sustain some of these places.
22:02
Harry: So this is one angle, obviously in the other one of the things one can do is pool resources, travel together.
22:10
Harry: Try not to be wasteful as much as possible.
22:14
Harry: Now, remember I start by saying this is an addiction, so know, all addictions have some negative aspects.
22:21
Harry: this you know.
22:25
Jenn: I, I, that's totally fair.
22:27
Jenn: I mean, all of us on, as humans on the planet have a carbon footprint and that just sort of is what it is.
22:34
Jenn: And personally, I've started donating to plant trees to, um, offset the costs- or the carbon footprint of my flights.
22:43
Jenn: And obviously when you take many, many flights, it can get pretty expensive to donate to plant trees.
22:48
Jenn: But um, it's just there are little ways.
22:51
Jenn: Meggan and I just did an episode.
22:54
Jenn: At the beginning of, of 2024, kind of how to be a better traveler.
22:57
Jenn: And like you said, it was, um, supporting the local businesses, the local accommodations, the local restaurants all have a positive impact as well, so you kind of just have to balance the positive with the negative, I guess.
23:11
Harry: yeah.
23:12
Harry: really do.
23:12
Harry: Yeah.
23:14
Jenn: Yeah.
23:14
Jenn: So obviously traveling can be really fun and carefree, but it can also be a little bit dangerous.
23:21
Jenn: You never know.
23:22
Jenn: So have you been in any dangerous situations?
23:25
Jenn: Um, you've been to every country on Earth?
23:27
Jenn: I'm sure they haven't all been carefree and amazing.
23:30
Harry: Um, no, but then again, I am A kind of cautious type.
23:36
Harry: Um, i, I also am quite instinctive, which means that when I arrive at the place, I kind of observe and try to figure out if it's dangerous or not, and I don't believe what I've heard, or what I've read, I kind of reach my own conclusions, which presumably haven't been that bad because I'm still here and nothing bad happened to me.
24:00
Harry: thanks.
24:01
Harry: Um, I, I did successfully get into jail once, which every traveler of a certain caliber has to do.
24:10
Harry: Uh, but, that, but that happened when I threw all caution to the wind.
24:14
Harry: So I went against my own better judgment and crossed Yemen's border illegally without a visa because I had to do it right.
24:24
Harry: So so you know, I did get what I deserved in a way, which it makes a good story.
24:31
Harry: But when you are in jail, in a strange country like Yemen, it's not fun and I really don't recommend it, um, but that, that is probably the worst that has happened to me.
24:43
Harry: I have never been held at gunpoint.
24:45
Harry: I've never really had to bribe anyone apart from really harmless little bribes, you know, that I don't even consider bribes.
24:54
Harry: You know, I've never had a really nasty situation.
24:58
Harry: Uh, so I don't know, I guess that Probably why I am so breezy and so positive about the world.
25:05
Harry: You know, maybe if I had had bad situations, I'd see things differently.
25:10
Jenn: Yeah.
25:10
Meggan: I think that's phenomenal, having been to every country twice and that being your experience, so I love trusting your instincts.
25:17
Meggan: I think as, as female travelers, too.
25:20
Meggan: You know, we're told that all the time, especially to, to listen to our guts and obviously that's what you do.
25:26
Meggan: Maybe not the Yemen situation, but everything else, which I think is, is a really positive thing to put out into the world as well.
25:34
Harry: Yeah, I
25:35
Meggan: do think.
25:36
Harry: if I may add, I think it's very wrong to read.
25:41
Harry: You know, I think a lot of the media are all about fear in a way.
25:46
Harry: And if you let that affect you, and if, for example, I don't wanna say mean things about our governments, but I sometimes the governments are extremely cautious.
25:57
Harry: I mean, I read the British Foreign Office writeup of Greece, you know, which I think really is relatively safe, you know, and, and I mean, reading that I thought, oh my God, you an average person will never go to Greece reading all dangers that they're exposed to, you So, um, think, you know, if we are reasonably open-minded.
26:19
Harry: We need to ignore a lot of that and just go with gut.
26:22
Harry: And of course, yeah, you don't do crazy things.
26:25
Harry: You know, you do not walk alone at night in a busy African capital where you know that there's theft going on because then you are gonna be robbed.
26:34
Harry: So, you know, obvious things, you know, uh, and then if you are robbed, you can't complain about it.
26:40
Harry: Because knew what was going on.
26:42
Harry: So I do think that a lot of the bad things that happen to people are because they are really not following common sense.
26:50
Harry: Uh, of course.
26:51
Harry: Yeah.
26:52
Harry: I mean, you couldn't have, I, I've been lucky in that I've never really had an accident, like a car crash or something, even though I've had many vehicles in countries where the driving is crazy.
27:02
Harry: So in that sense, yeah, I have been lucky and I admit it.
27:06
Jenn: Yeah.
27:07
Meggan: No.
27:07
Meggan: Well, good for you,
27:09
Jenn: Yeah.
27:10
Harry: Thanks,
27:10
Meggan: I mean, that's, that's excellent.
27:12
Meggan: Something else, remarkable I do wanna mention is that you can speak 10 languages.
27:17
Meggan: Is that right?
27:19
Harry: Well speak, butcher may be a better word, but I speak five relatively well and I can communicate well enough in another five to get what I want, you know?
27:32
Jenn: Um, that's still very good.
27:35
Jenn: So, what are they, and then do you have any advice for anyone who's looking to learn a new language?
27:41
Harry: Oh, that, that's an interesting question.
27:43
Harry: Well, um, as, as I said, I'm, I'm bilingual.
27:46
Harry: I, I, so I grew up in Greece, speaking English at home.
27:50
Harry: So Greek and English are, are both native languages.
27:54
Harry: I think now English is, is more of a mother tongue.
27:57
Harry: Uh, there are times when I speak Greek and I.
28:01
Harry: I speak it so rarely now that I sometimes forget words.
28:04
Harry: Um, I speak really good Serbian, which kind of just happened.
28:09
Harry: It's not a particularly useful language unless you are in Serbia, obviously.
28:13
Harry: Uh, I speak Spanish relatively well, and I.
28:18
Harry: I think compared to most Canadians, I think my French is actually reasonable, you know, um, you know,
28:25
Meggan: I would probably agree.
28:27
Harry: And then, um, well the other five are languages that I have a bit of a skill in.
28:32
Harry: So, um, I can do some German, I used to be quite good at dutch, but um, that's a bit rusty.
28:39
Harry: Uh, thanks to Spanish.
28:41
Harry: I can do Portuguese, which is really useful in Brazil.
28:45
Harry: I can read Italian and communicate on a basic level and, um, I've made a lot of an effort to learn Turkish, which Totally different to any other language.
28:56
Harry: It's uh, it's not of the European family at all.
28:59
Harry: So it's really hard and I can do basic things with Turkish, uh, and then I can read a few others, which, because for example, knowing Serbian, which is a Slavic language, I can read most of the Slavic languages and understand 60%.
29:15
Harry: I know what it's about.
29:16
Harry: So, you know, that is always helpful.
29:18
Harry: I I can read Cyrillic, which means that in Russian.
29:22
Harry: Uh, you know, in Russia I read, I know what's going on.
29:25
Harry: I can, I can read texts.
29:26
Harry: My, my spoken Russian is really bad, but yeah.
29:30
Harry: Yeah.
29:30
Harry: This is all helpful.
29:31
Harry: When you travel.
29:32
Harry: Now, how can people learn a language?
29:35
Harry: Well, learning a language is a commitment.
29:37
Harry: Uh, it's a bit like a marriage, you know?
29:40
Harry: Uh, you can't take it lightly unless you just want to learn a few words.
29:44
Harry: And a few words are sometimes enough, you know, in the country.
29:48
Harry: If you're gonna visit, say, Iran.
29:50
Harry: If you make the effort to learn 50 words, all the doors are gonna be open for you.
29:56
Harry: The people will adore you.
29:57
Harry: You know, so you don't need to really make that much sense.
30:01
Harry: But, but if you really want to, to be communication or conversation level, um, there's no real shortcuts.
30:09
Harry: Um, I would say you do need to devote a certain amount of time daily, it has to be daily even if it's 20 minutes.
30:18
Harry: But that momentum is what helps our brains.
30:22
Harry: I guess that's how we're wired to retain things and remember them.
30:26
Harry: So you do need to be the kind of person who can sit and give the time for that.
30:31
Harry: And often you need to be very patient because you are not gonna see results in the short term.
30:38
Harry: With Serbian, I was studying so hard.
30:41
Harry: Um, it, you know, I was doing at least an hour a day for two years, and at the end of two years, I still couldn't understand very well.
30:49
Harry: I could read, but when people spoke, I didn't know what they were saying.
30:52
Harry: And then suddenly it was like the penny dropped.
30:56
Harry: And, you know, out of nowhere, I, I realized now I understand, you know, that there, there often is that moment, but you need to sort of wait until it comes.
31:07
Jenn: Yeah, it is, it is a, a dedication practice.
31:10
Jenn: I did, six years of schooling in French and, which is funny because Canadian French, a Acadian French, it is language that's spoken in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and then even Quebec French is completely different from France French.
31:29
Jenn: And of course, my very formal schooling is france French, you know, proper French, and then you get out here in Quebec and I'm like, what are they saying?
31:39
Harry: Yeah,
31:39
Jenn: I speak this language.
31:43
Jenn: And then I went to France and I was like, oh my God, I know what they're saying.
31:46
Jenn: This.
31:48
Harry: Yeah.
31:49
Harry: Yeah, yeah.
31:50
Harry: I, I give, give up in Canada, I only speak English you know?
31:55
Jenn: Oh, uh, I mean, it, it's not even French.
31:58
Jenn: It's, it's Franglais you know, half time French, it's English, it's, it's everything together.
32:04
Harry: Yeah.
32:05
Jenn: good luck to anyone who's expecting proper French in Canada, because not gonna happen.
32:11
Harry: Yeah, but you know, as a foreigner, I really have to say that this is what makes Canada so special.
32:17
Harry: You know, this, this, you know, and even in communities which are totally English, you always have these signs in French.
32:24
Harry: And I always smile at that.
32:26
Harry: I'm like, this is great.
32:27
Harry: You know?
32:28
Harry: Um, and, and, and of course it's the most obvious thing that differentiates Canada from your, you know, your neighbor down south.
32:35
Harry: So this is something to really be proud of.
32:38
Harry: Well done.
32:40
Jenn: Yeah.
32:40
Meggan: Well, thank you.
32:41
Meggan: Thank So along with all your travels, you have written two books.
32:47
Meggan: So talk to us a bit about those, and is this something you are looking to continue to pursue?
32:53
Harry: Um, yes.
32:54
Harry: So, uh, I've always been a good writer.
32:57
Harry: This is one of the skills I believe I have, and people have always encouraged me to write more.
33:03
Harry: I had never thought of writing a book about my travels possibly because I.
33:09
Harry: I never knew how to structure it.
33:11
Harry: You know, where do you begin?
33:13
Harry: You know, how does it have a beginning, a middle, and an end?
33:16
Harry: You know?
33:16
Harry: So I never attempted that.
33:18
Harry: what happened was in 2017, uh, our community was faced with a fraud that I was unfortunate enough to uncover by accident or perhaps because I am, you know, a detective and I won't let things lie.
33:33
Harry: So there was this individual who we, we eventually found out had, basically swindled about a million dollars off a number of different travelers, including myself.
33:45
Harry: Uh, so, um, when the story broke and when everything happened, I thought, well, this is a book waiting to be written.
33:53
Harry: And I sat down and wrote the story of this person.
33:57
Harry: So it's called, the title of the book is The Curious Case of.
34:01
Harry: William Baekeland.
34:03
Harry: So obviously it's inspired by , the title is, but I use the name of, uh, this person, or rather the name that he used to approach us with, uh, because that was not his real name.
34:15
Harry: So I wrote the whole story of that, how we met him, the trips we took with him, how he became part of our community.
34:22
Harry: Uh, so the first part of the book is a bit of a travel log to some incredibly offbeat places.
34:29
Harry: Central African Republic, Timor-Leste, the northern, um, arctic, ocean, you know, places where no one really goes.
34:38
Harry: So there is the travel log, and then the second part of the book becomes a detective story in a way.
34:44
Harry: A how this fraud was uncovered and the aftermath in the community.
34:50
Harry: Um, yeah, I think it's a good book.
34:52
Harry: And what happened is that afterwards I was approached by HBO and uh, uh, an episode was filmed in a series about young people who were involved in fraud.
35:03
Harry: So this actually did become a, a filmed episode.
35:07
Harry: My second book was just released.
35:09
Harry: It's totally different.
35:10
Harry: It's fiction.
35:12
Harry: It's uh, kind of an Agatha Christie style book with murders, it is, um, it is community based, so the characters are travelers, I asked people their permission and I'm using real people, including myself.
35:28
Harry: I get murdered.
35:29
Harry: That was super fun to write my own murder.
35:33
Harry: Uh, so, um, so real people with a lot of fiction though, so I kind of mixed reality with fiction and created absurd characters.
35:42
Harry: And the idea of the book was just to entertain.
35:45
Harry: But again, it's a travel log because the plot takes place in more than 20 different location.
35:50
Harry: And uh, and I think the reason I wrote it, was probably my own wellbeing.
35:57
Harry: I think, you know, COVID and then the invasion of Ukraine have taken such a toll on my mental health that writing a silly book was extremely therapeutic and it worked very well.
36:10
Harry: You know, I was able to really travel far away from reality as I was writing.
36:15
Harry: Um, and the idea was to also, uh, you know, give a tribute to the travelers of today, or at least some of them, uh, through the book.
36:23
Harry: So, I mean, if you're looking for something really silly, but kind of fun, then this is it.
36:28
Harry: And the title of this is Welcome to the Hotel Nomad Mania
36:36
Meggan: Excellent.
36:36
Meggan: we'll make sure we list both of those in our show notes as well so that our, our listeners can, can find those.
36:43
Meggan: That's, that's excellent.
36:44
Meggan: Thank you for sharing that.
36:46
Harry: Yeah, you are welcome.
36:49
Jenn: So, uh, do you have any, uh, travel goals or plans for 2024?
36:56
Jenn: How far in advance do you usually plan things out?
37:00
Harry: a week.
37:03
Harry: Yeah, I, I've reached the point where I literally plan my trips a week in advance.
37:08
Harry: Uh, but that's my own trips.
37:10
Harry: So again, as I said, Nomad mania organizes some trips, and obviously for those we need to, uh, work.
37:18
Harry: Well in advance, and because I am joining some of these, the dates are known.
37:23
Harry: We are heading to Syria for a week.
37:26
Harry: We're also doing a nine day trip in Algeria.
37:30
Harry: And, uh, we're also going to.
37:32
Harry: The Åland islands that, I don't know if everyone knows 'em.
37:36
Harry: They are between Sweden and Finland.
37:40
Harry: Uh, they're part of Finland, but they're Swedish speaking.
37:44
Harry: Uh, and, and they're kind of autonomous.
37:46
Harry: So, uh, that's the sort of nice, easy, long weekend.
37:49
Harry: So those trips are planned.
37:51
Harry: Where I will go on my own is anybody's guess, really.
37:55
Harry: I, I don't know.
37:56
Harry: I.
37:57
Harry: I don't really have aims anymore other than to explore things I haven't done and to enjoy it.
38:04
Harry: And also, you know, I'm gonna be 52 very soon, and I do feel that I'm no longer 25.
38:12
Harry: So I'm, I'm kind of turning into a slower traveler.
38:16
Harry: I, I don't feel like I need to rush anymore.
38:19
Harry: So I'm, I'm taking it slower and I think there is a lot to be said for enjoying a slower rhythm when you travel, so I think it's gonna be fewer destinations, but longer stays.
38:33
Jenn: That's totally fair.
38:34
Jenn: And lastly, the impossible question.
38:38
Jenn: Do you have any favorite destinations?
38:42
Harry: Well, doesn't everybody, I mean,
38:44
Jenn: I guess, yeah.
38:46
Harry: Well, and especially someone who loves lists, right?
38:49
Harry: So I've got, I've got this huge Excel spreadsheet with about 15 criteria, which are weighed and I've given, you know, marks on every criteria to every country.
39:00
Harry: And then, you know, the kind of grand total comes out, obviously it's all incredibly subjective.
39:07
Harry: Um, up there on the list are a number of countries, but again, um, this is all very, very personal and subjective and in no way scientific.
39:18
Harry: So I really love Namibia.
39:21
Harry: I think it's a total gem.
39:22
Harry: I would urge everyone to visit Namibia.
39:25
Harry: I can't think of a bad thing to say about it, so it's Namibia has.
39:31
Harry: First of all, very, very interesting history.
39:34
Harry: Uh, it's got it, it was a German colony for a while, uh, before being kind of annexed by South Africa afterwards.
39:42
Harry: So there's still elements of that Germanic past, and you get some places including say, SWAC, which is built.
39:51
Harry: Totally as a German city and that's in the south of Africa.
39:54
Harry: So it's totally that.
39:56
Harry: That's totally amazing.
39:58
Harry: Um, then you've got incredible scenery, which is very varied.
40:03
Harry: You've got among the best dunes in the world, sand dunes.
40:08
Harry: Then you've got.
40:10
Harry: Safari, like, you know, you can see probably all the big five and they're just roaming around.
40:16
Harry: I mean, you have to try not to see an elephant or a lion and stuff.
40:21
Harry: Uh, then you've got like, uh, coast in the north, which is very foggy and moody and.
40:27
Harry: A bit like Nova Scotia, uh, , so all that, all that in Namibia, you know, in one, one country, which is very under visited and underpopulated, there's not that many people there.
40:39
Harry: So that is a, a place that I really love going to.
40:42
Harry: And also it's very friendly.
40:44
Harry: Uh, you know, some African countries are a bit.
40:48
Harry: Difficult to go to, you know, just to put it mildly.
40:52
Harry: But Namibia is a real joy.
40:54
Harry: Um, I don't know which other ones I can say I really like Sweden.
40:59
Harry: Um, and I always mention it now because Sweden saved me during Covid.
41:04
Harry: And before that, I would've never thought of Sweden as a particularly notable country.
41:10
Harry: But in Covid they.
41:13
Harry: This open policy, they never shut, they never really had the lockdown.
41:16
Harry: And when I was going crazy and really thought that I, I could not continue living, you know, because I'm, I'm, I'm, I can't move.
41:25
Harry: I, I just took a plane and went to Sweden and uh, and I rented a car and spent 10 days on my own without having contact with anybody else, but I was traveling.
41:35
Harry: So I put no one at risk and I was not at risk.
41:39
Harry: Uh, and I will always very.
41:42
Harry: Uh, you know, grateful to Sweden for choosing that way of dealing with a pandemic.
41:48
Harry: Um, but also as I was doing that, I discovered that Sweden is an incredible country, uh, with a lot of natural beauty and a lot of varied sites.
41:58
Harry: Um, and also the people are very, very friendly and Sweden and just, just enough crazy to make it.
42:06
Harry: Nice.
42:07
Harry: So, um, let, let me mention one Asian country because I, I don't want that, that continent to go unmentioned.
42:14
Harry: So I think Laos is also a hidden gem.
42:17
Harry: Uh, for those who may not know it, it's landlocked, it's east of Thailand and west of Vietnam.
42:25
Harry: Very under visited, but I would call it the authentic Southeast Asia.
42:31
Harry: You know, it doesn't get many tourists.
42:33
Harry: It's.
42:36
Harry: Behind that all you have the real Buddhist culture and Luang, which is quite well known, uh, by people who do that kind of thing, is totally mind blowing.
42:47
Harry: They, in the mornings, every morning, the monks stand in line and the the faithful give them donations.
42:55
Harry: Uh, and, and you have, this happens as soon as the sun rises and you've got the streets full of these.
43:03
Harry: Monks clad in their orange robes and all the people giving them donations.
43:08
Harry: And apart from just thinking of what an incredible act of solidarity that is, you know, you can really feel the piousness of it all.
43:16
Harry: It's amazing.
43:16
Harry: So Laos is definitely one, it's also really not expensive, so it's a country to visit if you're on the budget.
47:36
Jenn: Oh, those all sound amazing.
47:39
Meggan: Yeah, really, really outside of the the box ideas, for probably a lot of listeners as well.
47:44
Meggan: So thank you so much for bringing those up.
47:46
Jenn: Yeah.
47:48
Jenn: Awesome.
47:48
Jenn: Well, thanks so much for joining us this week, Harry, this, this was such a great conversation and I'm really grateful that, uh, that you came on.
47:56
Jenn: And thank you to everyone out there for listening to this episode.
48:01
Jenn: So you will find links to Nomad Mania and um, the books in our show notes and on our website, travel mug podcast.com.
48:11
Jenn: you can follow us on Instagram and facebook where we'll hopefully be sharing some photos from Harry's travels, maybe some of his favorite places.
48:20
Jenn: And if you want to support what we do here, you can find us on buy Me a Coffee.
48:26
Jenn: Uh, you can support us by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or just by sharing the show with a travel loving pal.
48:34
Jenn: We love that too.
48:35
Jenn: So, thank you so much everyone for listening.
48:37
Jenn: Until next time, bye.
48:39
Jenn: Mhm.
48:42
Jenn: Mhm.
48:45
Jenn: Mhm.